Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Eagles trade for #2 overall pick (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bigboy10182000
- Start date
Insein
Footballguy
I'm sure they'll still get a guy with that 3rd rounder but Mathews should be penciled in as the starter.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
They did. They offered quite a bit The Titans didn't bite and took Mariota
There's many links out there but:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25522321/heres-the-crazy-offer-chip-kelly-reportedly-made-for-marcus-mariota
2015 1st and 2nd, 2016 1st, any Eagles QB at that time (Bradford/Sanchez) + ANY defensive player (would guess Fletcher Cox)
Last edited by a moderator:
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
The future of the franchise is 1 pick per year for 3 years?
a 2-year deal with an easy out after 1 is a bloated contract?
I don't disagree that Daniel got a lot, but it had to be with the idea that they would get rid of Bradford after 1 and try to groom a young one from somewhere. That contract is definitely odd otherwise.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
the Eagles traded what most teams use as key building blocks to the future of their franchise
easy out or not, the Bradford contract is bloated imo as is the Daniel contract when you consider the guy was signed as a backup.
the moves, as separate moves, aren't necessarily terrible. but when you add them all together it makes zero sense. especially when you add that to the Doug Pederson stuff.
Last edited by a moderator:
Insein
Footballguy
Bradford is getting paid a guarantee of $22m over 2 years. Sounds pretty average to me.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
yeah, I just checked and the 2016 portion is a middle-tier QB contract. for some reason i thought it was higher. so strike the bloated portion of my post and I still don't understand what Philly is doing.
Last edited by a moderator:
Insein
Footballguy
They are trying to get a franchise QB they can grow with like when we drafted McNabb. They're tired of the retreads and the flash in the pans.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
by amassing as many QBs in 1 offseason as possible and using an incredibly large amount of resources to do so?
Insein
Footballguy
By getting one QB. They didn't know if they'd be able to trade up when FA started. So they signed Bradford to a short term deal. He's gone next year either way. Daniel was ALWAYS the backup whether it was Bradford or a rookie. They got the deal done. Our cap is fine and in great shape going forward. We have 7 picks this year and 8 next year right now. We're doing OK and now we get a future potential stud QB. Sounds good to me.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
They were trying to lock in a high floor in the short term with Bradford/Daniel, maintain flexibility with short contracts, and still have a chance to find and develop a young QB for the future.
Sebowski
Footballguy
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Browns have now traded top-10 pick in 4 of last 6 drafts. Players taken in their spot:
2011 Julio Jones
2012 Matt Kalil
2014 Sammy Watkins
2011 Julio Jones
2012 Matt Kalil
2014 Sammy Watkins
Adding RG3, if Pryor does move back to QB like he played under Hue, then add Cardale Jones...oh it might not be good for the Browns but that would be quite entertaining to watch- especially in TC where the three of them do some sort of "no I'm the better athlete at QB" type competition.
massraider
Footballguy
Bob McGinn, one of the more respected guys out there, has a great read:
Green Bay — The rise of North Dakota State's Carson Wentz and the fall of Michigan State's Connor Cook underscore the fleeting nature of scouting reports and how perceptions of quarterbacks can change dramatically in less than a year.
Last May, Cook was ranked second and Wentz 13th among the class of senior quarterbacks by National Football Scouting Inc., the largest of the two scouting combines that serve NFL teams.
Next week, Wentz could be the Los Angeles Rams' selection with the No. 1 overall pick in the draft, whereas Cook might fall all the way to the second round and possibly even the third.
NFS, whose members include the Green Bay Packers and 19 other clubs, gave Wentz a priority free agent grade of 4.91 entering his senior season. It represented the opinion of one area scout who went to Fargo, N.D., watched tape and wrote a report that was later disseminated and discussed with personnel from all 20 teams.
Among the quarterbacks rated far ahead of Wentz were USC's Cody Kessler and Arizona State's Mike Bercovici. Wentz also trailed Liberty's Josh Woodrum, Massachusetts' Blake Frohnapfel, Florida State's Everett Golson and Western Kentucky's Brandon Doughty, who, like Bercovici, might be pleased just to secure a free-agent contract after the draft.
"The scout missed him," said a personnel director for one of the NFS member teams. "It was just one scout's opinion."
Meanwhile, Cook received a grade of 6.01, making him a late first-round pick.
"In the summer time he was highly regarded," said an AFC personnel man. "He was overvalued."
Blesto Inc., the other combine, provided its eight member teams with spring grades from two scouts. Using a far different scale, Wentz received grades of 1.7 (seventh round) and 1.3 (third round), whereas Cook received grades of 1.4 (fourth round) and 1.18 (first round).
Everyone knows that preseason grades represent little more than a starting point for scouts exhausted from one draft and now having to switch gears and prepare for another. The measurements and other basic information are more important for teams than the grade, which will be superseded by team scouts.
Still, it's rather startling to see how far Wentz and Cook moved in opposite directions. A poll by the Journal Sentinel of 17 personnel men with national orientation reflects the change.
In the survey, scouts were asked to name their five favorite quarterbacks in order, with first place worth five points, second place worth four and so on.
Jared Goff, the junior from California, edged Wentz, 73 to 711/2. Goff had eight firsts, one more than Wentz.
Third was junior Paxton Lynch of Memphis with 52 points (one first) and fourth was Cook, who also had one first and totaled 29.
Following, in order, were Christian Hackenberg (11), Dak Prescott (61/2), Jacoby Brissett (four), Jeff Driskel (31/2), Kevin Hogan (21/2), and Cardale Jones and Nate Sudfeld, each one.
Wentz' ascension is more the result of his impressive performance on the field and in interviews during the Senior Bowl and combine than a senior season in which he missed eight of the Bison's 15 games with a broken wrist.
A small-town guy from the North Dakota capital of Bismarck, Wentz seems to have captivated his audience.
"He's a humble kid that was raised right," an AFC personnel director said. "He has high ambition, a good mind and a high likability factor. I think very highly of him."
Of the 69 quarterbacks drafted in the first round from 1984-2015, just two — Steve McNair from Alcorn State in '95 and Joe Flacco from Delaware in '08 — hailed from non-FBS colleges.
If Wentz turns out as good as McNair and Flacco, his employer probably would be ecstatic.
Several scouts said their main reservation concerning Wentz was caliber of competition and North Dakota State's overwhelming march to five straight FCS championships and a 71-5 record.
Wentz walked on and redshirted in 2011, backed up Brock Jensen for two seasons and then started just 23 games (20-3) the past two years. Jensen, from Waupaca, Wis., didn't last long as a Dolphins free agent in 2014 before finding work in the CFL.
"He has skyrocketed this postseason for a guy being hurt most of the year," said an NFC personnel man. "It took three years to start in I-AA. I know he had a hell of a career.
"He couldn't beat out Brock Jensen and now he's going to be the (top) pick in the draft? He's just got a scary profile."
Sixteen of the 17 scouts agreed to pick the best candidate to bust from among the leading passers. Cook led the way with six votes, Lynch garnered five, Hackenberg had three, and both Goff and Wentz had one.
Cook sat out Michigan State's finest victory (at Ohio State) with a shoulder injury but was MVP of the Big Ten championship game for a second time and broke some of Kirk Cousins' school records. His rating of 93.3 was in keeping with his first two seasons as a starter, but the more scouts saw the less they appeared to like.
"He's certainly not a front-line starter that can win you games," an NFL personnel chief said. "Put him on against Iowa and Alabama if you think this guy can do it. Their biggest win, Ohio State, he didn't even play."
Many personnel people have called into question Cook's "makeup" and ability to become the face of an NFL team.
"Like to have a better work ethic out of a quarterback," an AFC scout said. "He knows it. I talked to him. He's a smart kid, a college kid. He liked to hit the streets and chase.
"He wasn't voted team captain. But, he wasn't going to get it over (center) Jack Allen no matter what happened."
That personnel man compared Cook to retired journeyman starter Kyle Orton, and it wasn't intended as a compliment.
Cook could become the Big Ten's first quarterback drafted in the first round since Penn State's Kerry Collins in 1995 when the Nittany Lions had just concluded their second season in the conference.
The Big Ten produced first-round quarterbacks Art Schlichter, Tony Eason, Chuck Long, Jim Everett, Jim Harbaugh and Jeff George from 1982-'90. None of them compared with Tom Brady (sixth round), Drew Brees (second round) and Russell Wilson (third round), who have combined to win six Super Bowls.
"Depth-wise, it's a good group, but I don't see the premier guy in there," an AFC personnel man said. "I would take (Jameis) Winston and (Marcus) Mariota over these guys. They're Pro Bowlers. These guys are solid starters."
Green Bay — The rise of North Dakota State's Carson Wentz and the fall of Michigan State's Connor Cook underscore the fleeting nature of scouting reports and how perceptions of quarterbacks can change dramatically in less than a year.
Last May, Cook was ranked second and Wentz 13th among the class of senior quarterbacks by National Football Scouting Inc., the largest of the two scouting combines that serve NFL teams.
Next week, Wentz could be the Los Angeles Rams' selection with the No. 1 overall pick in the draft, whereas Cook might fall all the way to the second round and possibly even the third.
NFS, whose members include the Green Bay Packers and 19 other clubs, gave Wentz a priority free agent grade of 4.91 entering his senior season. It represented the opinion of one area scout who went to Fargo, N.D., watched tape and wrote a report that was later disseminated and discussed with personnel from all 20 teams.
Among the quarterbacks rated far ahead of Wentz were USC's Cody Kessler and Arizona State's Mike Bercovici. Wentz also trailed Liberty's Josh Woodrum, Massachusetts' Blake Frohnapfel, Florida State's Everett Golson and Western Kentucky's Brandon Doughty, who, like Bercovici, might be pleased just to secure a free-agent contract after the draft.
"The scout missed him," said a personnel director for one of the NFS member teams. "It was just one scout's opinion."
Meanwhile, Cook received a grade of 6.01, making him a late first-round pick.
"In the summer time he was highly regarded," said an AFC personnel man. "He was overvalued."
Blesto Inc., the other combine, provided its eight member teams with spring grades from two scouts. Using a far different scale, Wentz received grades of 1.7 (seventh round) and 1.3 (third round), whereas Cook received grades of 1.4 (fourth round) and 1.18 (first round).
Everyone knows that preseason grades represent little more than a starting point for scouts exhausted from one draft and now having to switch gears and prepare for another. The measurements and other basic information are more important for teams than the grade, which will be superseded by team scouts.
Still, it's rather startling to see how far Wentz and Cook moved in opposite directions. A poll by the Journal Sentinel of 17 personnel men with national orientation reflects the change.
In the survey, scouts were asked to name their five favorite quarterbacks in order, with first place worth five points, second place worth four and so on.
Jared Goff, the junior from California, edged Wentz, 73 to 711/2. Goff had eight firsts, one more than Wentz.
Third was junior Paxton Lynch of Memphis with 52 points (one first) and fourth was Cook, who also had one first and totaled 29.
Following, in order, were Christian Hackenberg (11), Dak Prescott (61/2), Jacoby Brissett (four), Jeff Driskel (31/2), Kevin Hogan (21/2), and Cardale Jones and Nate Sudfeld, each one.
Wentz' ascension is more the result of his impressive performance on the field and in interviews during the Senior Bowl and combine than a senior season in which he missed eight of the Bison's 15 games with a broken wrist.
A small-town guy from the North Dakota capital of Bismarck, Wentz seems to have captivated his audience.
"He's a humble kid that was raised right," an AFC personnel director said. "He has high ambition, a good mind and a high likability factor. I think very highly of him."
Of the 69 quarterbacks drafted in the first round from 1984-2015, just two — Steve McNair from Alcorn State in '95 and Joe Flacco from Delaware in '08 — hailed from non-FBS colleges.
If Wentz turns out as good as McNair and Flacco, his employer probably would be ecstatic.
Several scouts said their main reservation concerning Wentz was caliber of competition and North Dakota State's overwhelming march to five straight FCS championships and a 71-5 record.
Wentz walked on and redshirted in 2011, backed up Brock Jensen for two seasons and then started just 23 games (20-3) the past two years. Jensen, from Waupaca, Wis., didn't last long as a Dolphins free agent in 2014 before finding work in the CFL.
"He has skyrocketed this postseason for a guy being hurt most of the year," said an NFC personnel man. "It took three years to start in I-AA. I know he had a hell of a career.
"He couldn't beat out Brock Jensen and now he's going to be the (top) pick in the draft? He's just got a scary profile."
Sixteen of the 17 scouts agreed to pick the best candidate to bust from among the leading passers. Cook led the way with six votes, Lynch garnered five, Hackenberg had three, and both Goff and Wentz had one.
Cook sat out Michigan State's finest victory (at Ohio State) with a shoulder injury but was MVP of the Big Ten championship game for a second time and broke some of Kirk Cousins' school records. His rating of 93.3 was in keeping with his first two seasons as a starter, but the more scouts saw the less they appeared to like.
"He's certainly not a front-line starter that can win you games," an NFL personnel chief said. "Put him on against Iowa and Alabama if you think this guy can do it. Their biggest win, Ohio State, he didn't even play."
Many personnel people have called into question Cook's "makeup" and ability to become the face of an NFL team.
"Like to have a better work ethic out of a quarterback," an AFC scout said. "He knows it. I talked to him. He's a smart kid, a college kid. He liked to hit the streets and chase.
"He wasn't voted team captain. But, he wasn't going to get it over (center) Jack Allen no matter what happened."
That personnel man compared Cook to retired journeyman starter Kyle Orton, and it wasn't intended as a compliment.
Cook could become the Big Ten's first quarterback drafted in the first round since Penn State's Kerry Collins in 1995 when the Nittany Lions had just concluded their second season in the conference.
The Big Ten produced first-round quarterbacks Art Schlichter, Tony Eason, Chuck Long, Jim Everett, Jim Harbaugh and Jeff George from 1982-'90. None of them compared with Tom Brady (sixth round), Drew Brees (second round) and Russell Wilson (third round), who have combined to win six Super Bowls.
"Depth-wise, it's a good group, but I don't see the premier guy in there," an AFC personnel man said. "I would take (Jameis) Winston and (Marcus) Mariota over these guys. They're Pro Bowlers. These guys are solid starters."
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
With yesterday's trade still fresh Roseman's words have come back to scorn the advice he expounded on one year ago.
He mentioned the history of trading up doesn't favor the team that trades up.
He mentioned that we (teams) always overestimate their abilities to pick great players.
And if they wind up taking Wentz another comment might come back to haunt him when he mentioned 'quality of competition' when evaluating players.
The thing that people talk so much about with trades is making a mistake but I think teams also tend to regret if they wimped out and didn't make a deal that they should have, say last year when Roseman used all sorts of analytics to justify 'not moving up' for Mariota.
I think that regret played a role in making the bold move up in this draft since it seems to fly in the face of everything he seemed to stand on one year ago.
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/eagles/Howie-Roseman-on-draft-day-trades-free-agency-the-combine-and-more.html
Howie Roseman - in 2015 - on trading up in the draft
Updated: APRIL 21, 2016 — 1:07 PM EDT
(NOTE: This blog post was originally published on March 1, 2015. On April 20, 2016, the Eagles traded several draft picks, including their first picks in 2016 and 2017, to move from eighth to second in the first round of the NFL draft.)
Howie Roseman said that the history of trading up for one player in the NFL Draft is not favorable for the team that must give up significant resources...
... "When you’re looking at trading up, at some point, your board drops off so dramatically in terms of how you evaluate that player,” Roseman said, as heard on the conference’s webcast. “But the history of trading up for one player, when you look at those trades, isn’t good for the team trading up and putting a lot of resources into it.
"Because the guys who are really good at the draft, if you’re hitting on 60 percent of your first-round picks, that’s a pretty good track record. And then it’s dropping as you go through the rounds. So really, the more chances you get, the more tickets to the lottery you get, the better you should be doing.”
... “… we also always overestimate our ability to pick great players. That’s what we do – we have confidence in our ability to pick players ...”
ON PLAYER EVALUATION…
“It’s about the quality of competition when you’re evaluating someone. So if you’re evaluating a pass rusher and he’s going up against a low level of competition, and he has three sacks against an offensive tackle who’s going to be on Wall Street three months after the season ends, that’s not the same as seeing him go up against a future first-round pick.
“So when we’re looking at players, we’re trying to make sure – it’s like these guys in the preseason who do great in the fourth quarter against guys who are going to be out of football two weeks later. So part of it is who they’re going up against, the quality of competition.”
He mentioned the history of trading up doesn't favor the team that trades up.
He mentioned that we (teams) always overestimate their abilities to pick great players.
And if they wind up taking Wentz another comment might come back to haunt him when he mentioned 'quality of competition' when evaluating players.
The thing that people talk so much about with trades is making a mistake but I think teams also tend to regret if they wimped out and didn't make a deal that they should have, say last year when Roseman used all sorts of analytics to justify 'not moving up' for Mariota.
I think that regret played a role in making the bold move up in this draft since it seems to fly in the face of everything he seemed to stand on one year ago.
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/eagles/Howie-Roseman-on-draft-day-trades-free-agency-the-combine-and-more.html
Howie Roseman - in 2015 - on trading up in the draft
Updated: APRIL 21, 2016 — 1:07 PM EDT
(NOTE: This blog post was originally published on March 1, 2015. On April 20, 2016, the Eagles traded several draft picks, including their first picks in 2016 and 2017, to move from eighth to second in the first round of the NFL draft.)
Howie Roseman said that the history of trading up for one player in the NFL Draft is not favorable for the team that must give up significant resources...
... "When you’re looking at trading up, at some point, your board drops off so dramatically in terms of how you evaluate that player,” Roseman said, as heard on the conference’s webcast. “But the history of trading up for one player, when you look at those trades, isn’t good for the team trading up and putting a lot of resources into it.
"Because the guys who are really good at the draft, if you’re hitting on 60 percent of your first-round picks, that’s a pretty good track record. And then it’s dropping as you go through the rounds. So really, the more chances you get, the more tickets to the lottery you get, the better you should be doing.”
... “… we also always overestimate our ability to pick great players. That’s what we do – we have confidence in our ability to pick players ...”
ON PLAYER EVALUATION…
“It’s about the quality of competition when you’re evaluating someone. So if you’re evaluating a pass rusher and he’s going up against a low level of competition, and he has three sacks against an offensive tackle who’s going to be on Wall Street three months after the season ends, that’s not the same as seeing him go up against a future first-round pick.
“So when we’re looking at players, we’re trying to make sure – it’s like these guys in the preseason who do great in the fourth quarter against guys who are going to be out of football two weeks later. So part of it is who they’re going up against, the quality of competition.”
Insein
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
FUBAR
Footballguy
well, when they do use their 1st round pick they get Shelton and Mingo. Shelton could be good.
oh, and in 2012 they actually traded UP for Trent Richardson. They only gave the picks that netted Jarius Wright Robert Blanton, and Scott Solomon. Wright and Blanton probably would have started for the Browns. FWIW, four picks after Blanton - Josh Norman.
GreenNGold
Footballguy
I'm a little late to this thread but wow did the Eagles get destroyed in this trade.
Last edited by a moderator:
Obviously depends on what Wentz turns into. If he ends up a Dalton-type, they probably lost the deal. If he ends up a Roethlisberger-type, they'll win the deal. Impossible to gauge at this point. I was against them trading up. Didn't think either Goff or Wentz are extra special. Now we wait and see.
Can't say they got killed in this trade at this point. It'll also depend on how well they do this year. If The Browns end up with an Eagles 1st rounder in the top 10 that'll sting.
With the NFC East being so close in its mediocrity there's good odds they are picking closer to the end of the 1st than the start of it.
GreenNGold
Footballguy
I'm absolutely correct on this one, I guess looking through complete homer glasses you don't want to believe you got ripped off as bad as you did, but you did. I was right about Chump and I'm right about this. Sorry if the truth hurts, don't blame the messenger (me).
Last edited by a moderator:
So you don't agree that it totally depends on how good Carson Wentz turns out to be as well as the picks the Browns get out of this? This can be called now before one player plays a snap? If Carson Wentz ends up being a Hall of Fame quarterback and the Browns don't even get a pro bowler out of the Eagles picks, the Eagles still lose? LOL looks like you're picking up right where you left off last season. Stick to the Packers son
massraider
Footballguy
I wasn't sure about it, but you laid out such a compelling, well-reasoned argument that I was forced to reconsider.
GreenNGold
Footballguy
Even if nobody that the Browns pick pans out, it is clear they won the trade. They gained so much expected value it is not even close.
Plus it is funny you tell me to stick to the Packers, when once again the Eagles should be learning from the Packers. The Packers know how important it is to build through the draft and would never squander away so many valuable picks just to move up a measly 6 spots in the draft.
Last edited by a moderator:
massraider
Footballguy
Hall of Fame quarterbacking since what, 1992?
You ever think they should have taken more chances, and maybe won more titles?
Last edited by a moderator:
Insomniac
Footballguy
I'd guess that the Browns should end up getting the better of the deal but if their "expected value" isn't turned into players with real value who help them make the playoffs and contend for the Super Bowl then the trade isn't a win for them.
GreenNGold
Footballguy
True but that means there is a problem with their drafting ability, not their trading ability. If they blow all these picks having 1.2 would most likely not make a difference either. However, they have new and very smart management in place now, it is no longer the lol browns, they are making the right moves and raping the eagles is going to pay lots of dividends for the browns for years to come.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Still love the trade for my Browns. Still thrilled we won't be drafting Wentz (I wouldnt want him at 8 if he was there), and hoping and praying pick 8 is not used in any way shape or form for Lynch or any of the other QBs.
A 1st, 2nd, and 3rd to drop down 6 spots is exactly the right deal for this team, just like the Titans made the right deal for them. I just like what they got a little better, though it's close.
However, as far as trade value of picks goes, yes I think the Browns "won" the deal, but I can't say it was by a lot. It will be incredible if the Eagles manage to suck and get us a high pick. I remember a while back when the Redskins had picks 2 and 3. Would love something like that, cause we are pretty likely to get pick 1.
A 1st, 2nd, and 3rd to drop down 6 spots is exactly the right deal for this team, just like the Titans made the right deal for them. I just like what they got a little better, though it's close.
However, as far as trade value of picks goes, yes I think the Browns "won" the deal, but I can't say it was by a lot. It will be incredible if the Eagles manage to suck and get us a high pick. I remember a while back when the Redskins had picks 2 and 3. Would love something like that, cause we are pretty likely to get pick 1.
Last edited by a moderator:
GreenNGold
Footballguy
What would have been the eagles pick is going to be pretty decent for the Browns next year, probably around the 10th pick give or take a few spots. The eagles have done the exact opposite of what re-building teams are supposed to do.
I also think the Rams made a similarly terrible move in their huge overpay of a trade as well, for what that is worth.
Last edited by a moderator:
Similar threads
