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Eagles trade for #2 overall pick (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bigboy10182000
- Start date
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Terrified until you think of the alternative to this deal.
Whats the price to go up if we finish 7-9/ 8-8 next season?
Insein
Footballguy
Except they actually traded 1 1st, 1 2nd in 2018, 1 3rd and 2 mediocre players one with a huge cap hit. Not so insein.
Willie Neslon
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
Hugely over paid? He makes $12.5m a year for 2 years, $11 of which is already paid by Philly in a bonus. Sounds like a great contract for a team to try out a QB.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
RUSF18
Footballguy
What does that have to do with making a deal this year because of how you're projecting QBs a year from now? Do you think Roseman knew who Carson Wentz was at this point a year ago?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
You can't make both statements - they didn't trade two firsts only one to make that jump.
Eagles were having a nearly perfect offseason. Getting good value for the guys they were resigning/signing and letting go of the overpriced guys. On this deal, I have to agree with you. As I've been saying, it's a horribly desperate move. They want a franchise quarterback so badly that they're pretending Wentz is Andrew Luck or Mariota.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Goff? Youre mistaken. After his bowl game and up until now he was constantly mocked no lower than 2 which was where the first QB would be taken.
Wentz rose fast too. There's a lot out there on him and he reads like a franchise guy...and did prior to this deal
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msommer
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Spike
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
No they traded one in 2016 and one in 2017 to get a more attractive one in 2016 (implied in the move from 13 to 2). It is still two 1st round picks to get one
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Bottom line is both teams need to make the picks now....its that simple.
On our end I love that we can groom a QB like we did with Mcnabb and not force him to save a team. We still have a VERY young core who are under contract for a while as well. The later picks we have we can still grab a starting RB if needed too.
On the Browns end they needed picks--The management there now seems to get it and understand you cant toss a QB into a dumpster fire and expect good things
Win-win
On our end I love that we can groom a QB like we did with Mcnabb and not force him to save a team. We still have a VERY young core who are under contract for a while as well. The later picks we have we can still grab a starting RB if needed too.
On the Browns end they needed picks--The management there now seems to get it and understand you cant toss a QB into a dumpster fire and expect good things
Win-win
RUSF18
Footballguy
If the Browns were an even dumber franchise than they are, and for some reason agreed to it (maybe under the old cap structure, or even worse), so dumb that they traded the 2nd pick straight up for the 13th pick and nothing else, would you say the Eagles traded a 1st round pick to move up from 13 to 2?It's part of the trade to go from 1.08 to 1.02.
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Spin
Footballguy
We get into this semantics argument everytime these trades are done.
If someone made the statement "The Browns traded a first round pick to go from 13 to 2".
Would you assume that the 13th overall pick was the first round pick mentioned, or that it was a first round pick in addition to the 13th overall pick.
Edit: Eh, Rusf beat me to it.
If someone made the statement "The Browns traded a first round pick to go from 13 to 2".
Would you assume that the 13th overall pick was the first round pick mentioned, or that it was a first round pick in addition to the 13th overall pick.
Edit: Eh, Rusf beat me to it.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Well it's a semantics argument that isn't really worth the time but you can't say they "traded two firsts to jump from 13 to 2" (or from 8 to 2) when those picks were just switched.
msommer
Footballguy
Of course you can.
When you trade two small bananas for one large banana (even if one will only be given tomorrow), you in fact trade two bananas for one banana.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Semantically they either traded one first to move up, or they traded two firsts for pick #2. Trading two firsts to move up implies that there is a third 1st round pick they're moving up from.
Saying they "traded two 1st round picks to move up" is intentionally poor semantics designed to purposefully make it sound worse than it is.
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Porkchop Express
Footballguy
I really hate that the NFL has become so quarterback dependent.
Love this move for the Browns. Never liked the idea of them taking a QB at 2 anyway. Maybe I'm crazy, but I think RG3 has more upside than either of these rookie QBs anyway. Not saying he'll for sure be better, but he has more talent, just a matter of whether they can harness it, and Hue Jackson has had success with less, hell Terrelle Pryor looked pretty decent for a stretch.
Moving to 8 still lands them a great prospect, potential a better one than either QB, just at a less important position.
The Rams and Eagles look like the 2 biggest losers in the draft to me.
At this rate Lynch might sneak into the top-10, and maybe Connor Cook into the late 1st round. I get not wanting to settle for mediocre QB play, but man, you can have a great QB, and still have a bad team. How else do you think the Chargers earned the #3 pick. Speaking of that pick, how long does that last? Its arguably going to be the best player in the draft class, plus the Chargers have a lot of needs.
Moving to 8 still lands them a great prospect, potential a better one than either QB, just at a less important position.
The Rams and Eagles look like the 2 biggest losers in the draft to me.
At this rate Lynch might sneak into the top-10, and maybe Connor Cook into the late 1st round. I get not wanting to settle for mediocre QB play, but man, you can have a great QB, and still have a bad team. How else do you think the Chargers earned the #3 pick. Speaking of that pick, how long does that last? Its arguably going to be the best player in the draft class, plus the Chargers have a lot of needs.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Thing is. That it really isnt. Denver. Seattle and baltimore all won recently without 'stud' qb play. However to compete year in year out. It does seem best to have a stud qb under center
Shutout
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
They can get one next year. This trade allows them to build the team up first. Thrusting a young QB into the crap-fest of a roster right now would likely just ruin that QB anyway.
RUSF18
Footballguy
I don't think Paxton Lynch is any more likely to be a franchise QB than Wentz, but I'd understand that gamble a bit more with an extra 1st (plus) in my pocket for next year.
Shutout
Footballguy
I honestly can see it either way. They always say never pass on a franchise QB and I don't know if either of these guys ARE that but the price being paid to get them suggests a lot of people think they are.
On the other hand, you're right. If they drafted a guy and give him the David Carr treatment, then it is no help. BUT, they could draft a guy and then sit him and enter next year with a very educated 2nd year QB.
I've seen it play out all different ways in the NFL over the years . It just seems like the Browns always find a way to make the wrong decision.
On the other hand, you're right. If they drafted a guy and give him the David Carr treatment, then it is no help. BUT, they could draft a guy and then sit him and enter next year with a very educated 2nd year QB.
I've seen it play out all different ways in the NFL over the years . It just seems like the Browns always find a way to make the wrong decision.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Cold Dead Hands
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
I think it can go either way so I see your thinking but I will say this: I'd much rather take that type of gamble on ANY position other than QB. I forget who it was but I remember a GM type saying QB mistakes are 5 year mistakes that set you back (5 years) and they are mistakes you don't get to make twice (because you get fired).
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
The "play right away" vs. "sit and learn for a year or two" argument is just like the old WR argument of whether having another strong WR across the field helps the #1 WR because he draws coverage or hurts the #1 WR because he draws targets. In the end there are just too many examples on either side, too evenly split to draw any real conclusion one way or the other.
Shutout
Footballguy
I THink that's true. I think the Eagles of today would do that and sit him a year, despite the pressure being intense (especially after paying that much for him). You KNOW in Philly, the fans will be saying at some point if it goes slow "You paid all that to get him, play him, stupid!"
Also, you have to think that Bradford isn't an ironman. Chances suggest he will have to be played.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
I don't know. I've seen a TON of rookie QBs get their entire careers sideways because they started too soon. I've seen a lot that look promising but seemed obvious they really would benefit from sitting and learning. Seen a handful that did sit and it appears obviously beneficial.
Not saying it doesn't swing both ways but it is far less common to see a rookie QB come out and make a true difference in real life football at the NFl level.
RUSF18
Footballguy
I agree with what you're saying, both here and above, and I'm willing to make that gamble because I just don't get the love affair with these guys. And least you're getting some more out of the deal if your selection doesn't work out. But I fully support the "no half measures approach" to getting a QB. If you believe this is your guy, do what is necessary to take them.
I just continue to be shocked that these are the guys who are resulting in these moves. I could see these types of trades being made last year with Winston and Mariota sitting 1/2.
Shutout
Footballguy
Yeah, I agree with that. I'm not sure if it is because I feel like I'm not following football nearly as much this offseason as years past but last year with Winston and Mariota I could see these trades and think like you said, "they believe in their guy and they are going after him" AND it seemed there was a lot of info to support it.
This year, OTOH, I am thinking, "Really? For these guys?" But I could be completely ignorant about "these guys".
So for all the love the Eagles had for Mariota, if they were willing to back the truck up, why not do it last year?"
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Did they have their career ruined or were they just not good to begin with? Would David Carr/Blaine Gabbert have swapped places with Aaron Rodgers if they had sat and learned and Rodgers had started right away? Doubtful.
The majority of the top young QBs in the league right now are guys that started right away. Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, Derek Carr, Blake Bortles, and on and on. All except Wilson were drafted by teams that were thought to be much worse than the current Philly team.
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Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
Chip Kelly the personnel guy was a disaster, but to his credit, at this time last year he actually was making what he considered "back the truck up" offers to the Titans. From all accounts it was as least as much as it took the Eagles to get from 13 to 2 this year. The Titans may have "offered" the pick, but if so it was probably done about as seriously as those "Make Me Move" offers on Zillow.
I can't really say I blame Chip for trying, or the Titans for not biting. I'd much rather they have pulled this swap off last year than this one.
I'm thinking they made a comparable offer and got rebuffed. Both teams holding the top 2 picks last year sorely needed a franchise qb.
lod01
Footballguy
You either have a stud QB or a stud D.
Also, no way whoever they pick isn't starting by the end of the season.
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Cleat Spike
Footballguy
I'm probably way off, but does this new 1.02 pick HAVE to be a QB? Couldn't they grab the best RB here before they surely get sniped staying at 8. Worry about QB later like us in the FF community do right?! Guarantee you land the best RB.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
I see Eagles falling to 4-8 after Sea, GB Cin. So there would be a good spot to tart him. Last 4 games to get a taste.
Insein
Footballguy
If theyes wanted Zeke there was a high probability he would have been there for them at 8. No reason to throw all those picks to get to 2 for a guy that would be there at 8.
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