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Ebola (3 Viewers)

This is all fine and good unless she ends up with ebola.....like the New York doctor.
It's not a "loss" is she ends up with Ebola -- it's only a loss if she spreads it to someone else.

I think we're disagreeing, essentially, about the safety of asymptomatic Ebola-infected peoplenot being under quarantine. I think it's totally safe, you and some others feel there's enough non-zero risk there to do something about.
I think there's enough fine-print to cover in that to last another 50 or so pages.

but ftr, I agree with Doug. The nurse either has Ebola or doesn't- riding around on a bicycle isn't going to do anything... from what we're being told about how this spreads. If she has ebola and becomes symptomatic- then of course she shouldn't be riding around on a bicycle or anywhere outside of a boy-in-the-bubble type arrangement. But until she does... unless she's spraying people with bodily fluids in the freak moment she's outside and suddently becomes symptomatic, bicycle like the wind.

 
This is all fine and good unless she ends up with ebola.....like the New York doctor.
It's not a "loss" is she ends up with Ebola -- it's only a loss if she spreads it to someone else.

I think we're disagreeing, essentially, about the safety of asymptomatic Ebola-infected peoplenot being under quarantine. I think it's totally safe, you and some others feel there's enough non-zero risk there to do something about.
From a public perception viewpoint it would be a loss....All the facts in regards to Ebola mean nothing, its all about perception...The perception is Ebola spreads from person to person and it kills a great deal of people....

 
“The court is fully aware of the misconceptions, misinformation, bad science and bad information being spread from shore to shore in our country with respect to Ebola,” the judge said. “The Court is fully aware that people are acting out of fear and that this fear is not entirely rational. However, whether that fear is rational or not, it is present and it is real. She should guide herself accordingly.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/01/us/ebola-maine-nurse-kaci-hickox.html?_r=0

 
From a public perception viewpoint it would be a loss....All the facts in regards to Ebola mean nothing, its all about perception...The perception is Ebola spreads from person to person and it kills a great deal of people....
Perception can change with time and effort. See HIV.

But that last sentence you wrote ... at some point, Americans should notice "Hmmm ... Dallas didn't get an outbreak of Ebola. Nor did Cleveland, NYC, the people on that cruise ship ... hey, wait a minute!"

 
From a public perception viewpoint it would be a loss....All the facts in regards to Ebola mean nothing, its all about perception...The perception is Ebola spreads from person to person and it kills a great deal of people....
Perception can change with time and effort. See HIV.

But that last sentence you wrote ... at some point, Americans should notice "Hmmm ... Dallas didn't get an outbreak of Ebola. Nor did Cleveland, NYC, the people on that cruise ship ... hey, wait a minute!"
Unfortunately the way that this has been handled by the people in the know, hasn't instilled much confidence.

 
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“My duty to protect the health of the individual, as well as the health and safety of 1.3 million Mainers, is my highest priority,” Governor LePage said. “Despite our best effort to work collaboratively with this individual, she has refused to cooperate with us.”

“The judge has eased restrictions with this ruling and I believe it is unfortunate,” he added. “However, the State will abide by law.”
Governor is a moron, perpetuating bad information.

 
My duty to protect the health of the individual, as well as the health and safety of 1.3 million Mainers, is my highest priority, Governor LePage said. Despite our best effort to work collaboratively with this individual, she has refused to cooperate with us.

The judge has eased restrictions with this ruling and I believe it is unfortunate, he added. However, the State will abide by law.
Governor is a moron, perpetuating bad information.
Breaking News: Internet boy calls Governor a moron.

 
From a public perception viewpoint it would be a loss....All the facts in regards to Ebola mean nothing, its all about perception...The perception is Ebola spreads from person to person and it kills a great deal of people....
Perception can change with time and effort. See HIV.

But that last sentence you wrote ... at some point, Americans should notice "Hmmm ... Dallas didn't get an outbreak of Ebola. Nor did Cleveland, NYC, the people on that cruise ship ... hey, wait a minute!"
Unfortunately the way that this has been handled by the people in the know, hasn't instilled much confidence.
What should have been done differently? The biggest hitch was in getting the Dallas hospital's staff up to speed on PPE protocols. But I pretty much give the CDC, et al, a pass on that, as Duncan pretty much caught the hospital unaware. On top of that, the honchos at Texas Health Presbyterian kind of got in the way of smooth information transfer, themselves.

One thing I do wish had been done -- though I have the benefit of hindsight -- is that the U.S. should've had broader-based PPE-capable medical staff ready to respond to a disease like Ebola. Until this year, it "made sense" to treat Ebola as something that would never cross oceans. Well, now we know better.

 
My duty to protect the health of the individual, as well as the health and safety of 1.3 million Mainers, is my highest priority, Governor LePage said. Despite our best effort to work collaboratively with this individual, she has refused to cooperate with us.

The judge has eased restrictions with this ruling and I believe it is unfortunate, he added. However, the State will abide by law.
Governor is a moron, perpetuating bad information.
Breaking News: Internet boy calls Governor a moron.
Breaking News: when the court rules, the governor respects the rule of law, and does not comment on his personal, uninformed, opinions. Unless, of course, he is a moron.

The only thing the governor needed to say her publicly was, "we will abide by the court's ruling".

 
:rolleyes: Saying 'it's unfortunate' = moron.

She does not represent a significant risk to appeal, but it is an unfortunate precedence for the state of Maine for Judge's to overturn the Governor on an issue of safety.

 
My duty to protect the health of the individual, as well as the health and safety of 1.3 million Mainers, is my highest priority, Governor LePage said. Despite our best effort to work collaboratively with this individual, she has refused to cooperate with us.

The judge has eased restrictions with this ruling and I believe it is unfortunate, he added. However, the State will abide by law.
Governor is a moron, perpetuating bad information.
Breaking News: Internet boy calls Governor a moron.
Thanks CNN!

 
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I'm sure her neighbors love hearing this news.
Sheila Pinette of the Maine CDC has released information that the roommate of Kaci Hickox, while in West Africa has displayed signs of ebola. Pinette says The respondents roommate in Africa became infected without knowing how she became infected with Ebola.
I am sure the room mate just had 'low risk' contact. Amazing how many people that the CDC classifies as low risk develop the disease.

 
I'm sure her neighbors love hearing this news.
Sheila Pinette of the Maine CDC has released information that the roommate of Kaci Hickox, while in West Africa has displayed signs of ebola. Pinette says The respondents roommate in Africa became infected without knowing how she became infected with Ebola.
I am sure the room mate just had 'low risk' contact. Amazing how many people that the CDC classifies as low risk develop the disease.
I believe Hickox would fall in the some risk category.

 
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FYI....From CDC website on the Ebola topic:

IsolationIsolation means the separation of an individual or group who is reasonably believed to be infected with a quarantinable communicable disease from those who are not infected to prevent spread of the quarantinable communicable disease. An individual could be reasonably believed to be infected if he or she displays the signs and symptoms of the quarantinable communicable disease of concern and there is some reason to believe that an exposure had occurred.

QuarantineQuarantine in general means the separation of an individual or group reasonably believed to have been exposed to a quarantinable communicable disease, but who is not yet ill (not presenting signs or symptoms), from others who have not been so exposed, to prevent the possible spread of the quarantinable communicable disease.
 
I'm sure her neighbors love hearing this news.
Sheila Pinette of the Maine CDC has released information that the roommate of Kaci Hickox, while in West Africa has displayed signs of ebola. Pinette says The respondents roommate in Africa became infected without knowing how she became infected with Ebola.
I am sure the room mate just had 'low risk' contact. Amazing how many people that the CDC classifies as low risk develop the disease.
I believe Hickox would fall in the some risk category.
That could be if her exposure to her roommate was considered "prolonged" (undefined) and "close" (within 1 meter).

 
Damn I'll be glad when this is over. Nothing like beating a topic to death and playing word gymnastics.

 
it is an unfortunate precedence for the state of Maine for Judge's to overturn the Governor on an issue of safety.
I'm sure we could come up with hundreds of scenarios where you would joyfully side with a judge who overturns a governors decision you disagree with

 
I'm sure her neighbors love hearing this news.
Sheila Pinette of the Maine CDC has released information that the roommate of Kaci Hickox, while in West Africa has displayed signs of ebola. Pinette says The respondents roommate in Africa became infected without knowing how she became infected with Ebola.
I'm sure her neighbors will be shocked to learn that she was in proximity to people with Ebola when she was in West Africa treating people with Ebola.

 
I'm sure her neighbors love hearing this news.
Sheila Pinette of the Maine CDC has released information that the roommate of Kaci Hickox, while in West Africa has displayed signs of ebola. Pinette says The respondents roommate in Africa became infected without knowing how she became infected with Ebola.
I am sure the room mate just had 'low risk' contact. Amazing how many people that the CDC classifies as low risk develop the disease.
I believe Hickox would fall in the some risk category.
That could be if her exposure to her roommate was considered "prolonged" (undefined) and "close" (within 1 meter).
Nothing to do with her her roommate.

Some risk is defined as In countries with widespread Ebola virus transmission(http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/outbreaks/2014-west-africa/distribution-map.html): direct contact while using appropriate PPE with a person with Ebola while the person was symptomatic.

 
At a Senate hearing the same day Obama was in Atlanta, Beth Bell, director of the CDC's National Center for Emerging and Zoonotic Infectious Diseases, emphasized that the agency does not consider Ebola to be a "significant public health threat" to the United States.
Yes, the government is more concerned about quarantining Yellowstone bisons.http://www.foxnews.com/science/2014/09/21/scientists-eyeing-yellowstone-bison-quarantine/?intcmp=latestnewshttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/16/yellowstone-kill-bison_n_5833016.htmlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMSPrHXvyws
Some good news for bisons :thumbup:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/17/us-usa-bison-yellowstone-idUSKCN0I601020141017

 
Likelihood of dying by different causes in the US (yearly)

Ebola
1 in 309,629,415

being struck by lightning
1 in 10,676,876

being scalded
1 in 10,320,981

an earthquake
1 in 9,383,710

a dog bite
1 in 8,148,143

a flood
1 in 7,939,216

legal execution
1 in 7,551,937

storm
1 in 6,587,860
being killed by a police officer
1 in 900,086

an accidental firearm discharge
1 in 510,940
a firearm assault
1 in 27,950

a self-inflicted gunshot
1 in 15,967



 
And yet we spend billions of dollars making buildings safere from earthquakes and have the Army Corps of Engineers involved on most major construction projects to evaluate flood impacts. The debate is not that ebola is currently a big threat to American citizens. Worst case scenario here is about 100 people, most likely just a handful. But globally it could wipe out millions especially if it spreads to other African countries or China or India.

 
Well documented that I'm itchy about these things. That said, it's pretty well established that risks are negligible when patients are asymtomatic. In the case of the Maine nurse, monitoring three times a day seems prudent. We haven't seen hundreds of hipsters coming down with the disease from the Park Slope bowling alley, and it doesn't seem likely.

We could be in the early stages of an outbreak that lasts years and we may have to eventually face a situation where our citizenry will have to balance personal liberty with public health. This isn't that time, but it is worrisome that our arrogance could bite us in a situation where we should tamp down on something that meets the hype.

 
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Likelihood of dying by different causes in the US (yearly)

Ebola

1 in 309,629,415

being struck by lightning

1 in 10,676,876

being scalded

1 in 10,320,981

an earthquake

1 in 9,383,710

a dog bite

1 in 8,148,143

a flood

1 in 7,939,216

legal execution

1 in 7,551,937

storm

1 in 6,587,860

being killed by a police officer

1 in 900,086

an accidental firearm discharge

1 in 510,940

a firearm assault

1 in 27,950

a self-inflicted gunshot

1 in 15,967
If you meant this to be relevant to the concerned side of the argument in this thread, I'm sorry to tell you it's not likely to achieve your goal. None of these address the likelihood of dying separate from the likelihood of the event occuring.If you find those numbers I suggest posting them. That might actually move the conversation in a different direction.

 
Turn in your neighbors. Even if you're stupid. You just can't be too cautious.

Pastor Michael Petzer had a surprise visit to his home at 2 a.m. Sunday — two Tucson police officers who asked if he was feeling OK and if he had Ebola.

He told the officers — including a lieutenant — that he did not have the deadly disease. They gave him a phone number to the University of Arizona Medical Center, and told him to call a nurse there because a patient at the hospital had told the medical staff that he had the virus.
The officers did a welfare check on Petzer after a request from UAMC, said Sgt. Chris Widmer, a Tucson Police Department spokesman. Officials with UAMC confirmed that was true, and said they followed protocol. The hospital did not contact the Pima County Health Department.

“The only way we could figure out if it was a real contact to be concerned about was to find out the travel history. That is why the police were sent out,” said Dr. Andreas Theodorou, chief medical officer at UA Medical Center. “The health department doesn’t have the capacity to do that.”

Theodoru said the officers were not breaking protocol by not wearing protective gear. They just needed to stay 3 feet away from Petzer, he said.

A woman, who knows Petzer, had gone to the hospital with possible Ebola symptoms and told hospital staff that Petzer had returned from Africa on Sept. 6, Widmer said.

According to police, the woman said she was a member of the church’s congregation.

The officers learned that Petzer had been in Zambia for about 10 days training missionaries, was not sick, and was past the 21-day incubation period for Ebola.

Petzer, a native of Africa who is a naturalized U.S. citizen, said he was told by the officers to call UAMC immediately and report that he was not ill. He said he understands the officers were doing their job, but he was not happy about the ordeal or how it was handled by the hospital.

“I think this is hysteria, and a zero understanding of geography,” said Petzer, explaining that Zambia is in south-central Africa, about 2,500 miles away from the affected areas in West Africa.
 
fatness said:
Likelihood of dying by different causes in the US (yearly)

Ebola

1 in 309,629,415

being struck by lightning

1 in 10,676,876

being scalded

1 in 10,320,981

an earthquake

1 in 9,383,710

a dog bite

1 in 8,148,143

a flood

1 in 7,939,216

legal execution

1 in 7,551,937

storm

1 in 6,587,860

being killed by a police officer

1 in 900,086

an accidental firearm discharge

1 in 510,940

a firearm assault

1 in 27,950

a self-inflicted gunshot

1 in 15,967
Those numbers represent what has happened that we know of to this point, not what the probability is of that continuing for the future. Likelihood not the best word to use there.

More semantic gymnastica

 
I have a better chance of dying from ebola than from suicide or legal execution.

I do like to play with metal during storms though, so there's that.

 
I was a bit reluctant about my golf outing today during a thunderstorm. But looking at the stats, there are no worries. Thanks.

 
Another patient is being evaluated at Duke. Flew into Newark on Friday from Liberia. One report has a family member drove him to Durham, another report says he took a bus. But he developed fever on Sunday and is in isolation in the hospital and should have test rests today.

 
:rolleyes: Saying 'it's unfortunate' = moron.

She does not represent a significant risk to appeal, but it is an unfortunate precedence for the state of Maine for Judge's to overturn the Governor on an issue of safety.
Yeah, I personally HATE when the designed checks and balances work properly.

All the power should rest with one individual. That's how you have strong leaders, and strong leaders make strong counties. Just ask Italy, Russia or Germany.

 
:rolleyes: Saying 'it's unfortunate' = moron.

She does not represent a significant risk to appeal, but it is an unfortunate precedence for the state of Maine for Judge's to overturn the Governor on an issue of safety.
Yeah, I personally HATE when the designed checks and balances work properly.

All the power should rest with one individual. That's how you have strong leaders, and strong leaders make strong counties. Just ask Italy, Russia or Germany.
Yep, just like the Nazi's! :thumbup:

 

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