Effect of the new kickoff rules (1 Viewer)

[GregR]

A great look at the impact of moving the kickoff up to the 35, and only allowing kick coverage teams a 5 yard running start. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/sports/football/in-the-nfl-a-new-rule-is-likely-to-limit-kickoff-returns.html?_r=2&ref=judybattista

 

[shortbow]

Good read, will be an interesting year for sure in regards to kickoffs, im expecting teams to take a hard line one way or the other and then adjust it in regards to each others success.

 

[FavreCo]

Is Harbaugh drunk or what?

Aug. 14, 2011 9:20 p.m. - by Jason Butt - Based on what he saw Thursday, coach John Harbaugh is no fan of the kickoff rule change that sets kickoffs at the 35-yard line. “If you look at the Eagles-Ravens preseason game, it was just a yawner,” Harbaugh said. “Every (kickoff) was a touchback.

Aug. 14, 2011 9:23 p.m. - by Jason Butt - New kickoff rule could pose safety issues too

If teams begin covering kicks purposefully dropped inside the 10-yard line, coach John Harbaugh believes a safety issue would then arise with kickoff teams five yards closer to the returner. This would be ironic considering the new rule was designed to prevent additional injuries.

Ok, buddy which is it a yawner or not?

 

[Late225]

It's still a yawner, but I think he's right. We can see less injuries overall, but more injuries per return.

A question I have - Are there blocking and collisions down field in the case of a touchback?

The fact that on the first day of games, the one out of 8 kickoffs that were returned went for a touchdown leaves me to believe that fewer kickoffs will lead to expectations of touchbacks. The higher the expectations for a touchback, the more players will "take off" the play and could lead to more injuries per play just as it lead to a higher percentage of touchdowns over the weekend.

 

[Mello]

Hopefully there will be enough outrage this year that they move things back to the 30 next year. I think the percent returned will be much higher during the preseason because coaches will want to test out their special teams in a game setting. Ones the season hits though, most kicking teams will tell the kicker to boom it rather than risk a higher/shorter kick and most receiving teams will be instructed to take the knee rather than risk the return from the endzone.

 

[rocketsauce]

It's still a yawner, but I think he's right. We can see less injuries overall, but more injuries per return.

A question I have - Are there blocking and collisions down field in the case of a touchback?

The fact that on the first day of games, the one out of 8 kickoffs that were returned went for a touchdown leaves me to believe that fewer kickoffs will lead to expectations of touchbacks. The higher the expectations for a touchback, the more players will "take off" the play and could lead to more injuries per play just as it lead to a higher percentage of touchdowns over the weekend.

This was my exact thought. Will coverage units start anticipating a touchback, assume their returner is not coming out, and relax on the play? Not only could it lead to injuries as you mentioned, but could lead to horrible (or great) starting field position, depending on which side of the kickoff unit is the one "taking the play off". I know it seemed like everytime somebody brought one out of the end zone there was virtually no blocking or room to run. Of course, thats why you don't take one out of the end zone to begin with.I dunno, the more I think about it, the more there are points to both sides and I anticipate it ending up a total wash on the season. I'm sure it'll cost some kickoff specialists their jobs, which certainly sucks for them.

 

[GregR]

If I were a coach, I would be having my kicker practice high kickoffs that hopefully land between the 5 and the goal line. If he got consistent at it, and I felt I had good kick coverage on my team, I would kick off and try to pin the return inside the 20 unless I was facing a Hester, Cribbs, etc. In which case I'd take the touchback.

The advantages of pinning someone inside the 10 are enough that I'll take the risk of a big return by a non-elite kick returner talent. A three and out and you're getting the ball around midfield or better. Even if they drive, the extra yardage they have to make up lessens the chance they go down and score.

 

[zed2283]

If I were a coach, I would be having my kicker practice high kickoffs that hopefully land between the 5 and the goal line. If he got consistent at it, and I felt I had good kick coverage on my team, I would kick off and try to pin the return inside the 20 unless I was facing a Hester, Cribbs, etc. In which case I'd take the touchback.The advantages of pinning someone inside the 10 are enough that I'll take the risk of a big return by a non-elite kick returner talent. A three and out and you're getting the ball around midfield or better. Even if they drive, the extra yardage they have to make up lessens the chance they go down and score.

I was thinking the same thing while watching the games this weekend.

 

[Mello]

If I were a coach, I would be having my kicker practice high kickoffs that hopefully land between the 5 and the goal line. If he got consistent at it, and I felt I had good kick coverage on my team, I would kick off and try to pin the return inside the 20 unless I was facing a Hester, Cribbs, etc. In which case I'd take the touchback.The advantages of pinning someone inside the 10 are enough that I'll take the risk of a big return by a non-elite kick returner talent. A three and out and you're getting the ball around midfield or better. Even if they drive, the extra yardage they have to make up lessens the chance they go down and score.

You really think you can pin opponents inside the 20 or generate enough turnovers to justify the risk? I really doubt it. It just takes one broken out to the 50 be negative enough to outweigh 3 or 4 times where you stopped them at the 15.

 

[RUSF18]

If I were a coach, I would be having my kicker practice high kickoffs that hopefully land between the 5 and the goal line. If he got consistent at it, and I felt I had good kick coverage on my team, I would kick off and try to pin the return inside the 20 unless I was facing a Hester, Cribbs, etc. In which case I'd take the touchback.The advantages of pinning someone inside the 10 are enough that I'll take the risk of a big return by a non-elite kick returner talent. A three and out and you're getting the ball around midfield or better. Even if they drive, the extra yardage they have to make up lessens the chance they go down and score.

You really think you can pin opponents inside the 20 or generate enough turnovers to justify the risk? I really doubt it. It just takes one broken out to the 50 be negative enough to outweigh 3 or 4 times where you stopped them at the 15.

Furthermore, if it would be so effective, why wasn't this done when kicking off from the 30? Do you think there's a difference in lack of difficulty between trying to land a high kick between the 5 and GL from 60-65 yards out versus 65-70 yards?

 

[GregR]

If I were a coach, I would be having my kicker practice high kickoffs that hopefully land between the 5 and the goal line. If he got consistent at it, and I felt I had good kick coverage on my team, I would kick off and try to pin the return inside the 20 unless I was facing a Hester, Cribbs, etc. In which case I'd take the touchback.The advantages of pinning someone inside the 10 are enough that I'll take the risk of a big return by a non-elite kick returner talent. A three and out and you're getting the ball around midfield or better. Even if they drive, the extra yardage they have to make up lessens the chance they go down and score.

You really think you can pin opponents inside the 20 or generate enough turnovers to justify the risk? I really doubt it. It just takes one broken out to the 50 be negative enough to outweigh 3 or 4 times where you stopped them at the 15.

Furthermore, if it would be so effective, why wasn't this done when kicking off from the 30? Do you think there's a difference in lack of difficulty between trying to land a high kick between the 5 and GL from 60-65 yards out versus 65-70 yards?

It isn't about the kick. It's about where the kick coverage team meets the returner.Under the new rules, the kick coverage team will be further upfield when the returner gets the ball because a) they start 5 yards closer, and b) the kicks can have more hang time while still landing on the same spot, giving the kick coverage more time to get upfield.

 

[GregR]

If I were a coach, I would be having my kicker practice high kickoffs that hopefully land between the 5 and the goal line. If he got consistent at it, and I felt I had good kick coverage on my team, I would kick off and try to pin the return inside the 20 unless I was facing a Hester, Cribbs, etc. In which case I'd take the touchback.The advantages of pinning someone inside the 10 are enough that I'll take the risk of a big return by a non-elite kick returner talent. A three and out and you're getting the ball around midfield or better. Even if they drive, the extra yardage they have to make up lessens the chance they go down and score.

You really think you can pin opponents inside the 20 or generate enough turnovers to justify the risk? I really doubt it. It just takes one broken out to the 50 be negative enough to outweigh 3 or 4 times where you stopped them at the 15.

If you're not facing a top returner, and if your kicker is pretty consistent about where he places it, I'd think it's possible. You probably want to put it a little inside the end zone, enough the guy is tempted to bring it out, now that I think about it. Though that may change over time as coaches see how things go and adjust to it.I saw a couple of kickoffs inside the 20 so far. Just skimming the first couple of game books on NFL.com...Starting and ending:-2 yardline to the 24.3 yardline to the 191 to the 17-6 to the 11-2 to opponent 18-3 to 22-8 to 17-4 to 182 to 24-8 to 23-1 to 20-5 to 24By the way, all of those but the first were Jags-Pats.So 6 out of 12 they stopped them inside the 20. But looking at the numbers, you have a point. I don't know if you would break even. You probably would on normal returns, but as soon as someone broke a big one, yes, you'd be behind on net yards. I suppose how good your kick coverage teams are would be part of it, but maybe it wouldn't be worth it.

 

[RUSF18]

If I were a coach, I would be having my kicker practice high kickoffs that hopefully land between the 5 and the goal line. If he got consistent at it, and I felt I had good kick coverage on my team, I would kick off and try to pin the return inside the 20 unless I was facing a Hester, Cribbs, etc. In which case I'd take the touchback.The advantages of pinning someone inside the 10 are enough that I'll take the risk of a big return by a non-elite kick returner talent. A three and out and you're getting the ball around midfield or better. Even if they drive, the extra yardage they have to make up lessens the chance they go down and score.

You really think you can pin opponents inside the 20 or generate enough turnovers to justify the risk? I really doubt it. It just takes one broken out to the 50 be negative enough to outweigh 3 or 4 times where you stopped them at the 15.

Furthermore, if it would be so effective, why wasn't this done when kicking off from the 30? Do you think there's a difference in lack of difficulty between trying to land a high kick between the 5 and GL from 60-65 yards out versus 65-70 yards?

It isn't about the kick. It's about where the kick coverage team meets the returner.Under the new rules, the kick coverage team will be further upfield when the returner gets the ball because a) they start 5 yards closer, and b) the kicks can have more hang time while still landing on the same spot, giving the kick coverage more time to get upfield.

I understand that. My point is that the difficulty in putting just enough height on a teed kickoff in order to drop it in that five yard window consistently did not materially change in the last year...it's still very difficult.

 

[GregR]

Peter King tweet:

[Average] kickoff landing for all 2010 kicks: 5.5-yd line. Stands to reason '11 would be approx .5-yd line. Majority of '11 kicks to be returned

My take: The 5.5 yard average probably includes squib kicks, possibly onside kicks, so the true average is probably further back, but it's still a data point when we don't have one otherwise so somewhere to start from.

 

[atcdav]

So my question is the Bears decided to keep kicking from the 30 until the league stepped in and said stop. I like the civil disobedience. If the Bears intentionally delay game or take some other penalty to get penalized and then kickoff from the 30, what could the league do? I would like to see other teams join in. The rule makes no sense. They might as well not kickoff and just start the drive at the 20 each time.

 

[LittlePhatty]

Is Harbaugh drunk or what?

Aug. 14, 2011 9:20 p.m. - by Jason Butt - Based on what he saw Thursday, coach John Harbaugh is no fan of the kickoff rule change that sets kickoffs at the 35-yard line. “If you look at the Eagles-Ravens preseason game, it was just a yawner,” Harbaugh said. “Every (kickoff) was a touchback.

Aug. 14, 2011 9:23 p.m. - by Jason Butt - New kickoff rule could pose safety issues too

If teams begin covering kicks purposefully dropped inside the 10-yard line, coach John Harbaugh believes a safety issue would then arise with kickoff teams five yards closer to the returner. This would be ironic considering the new rule was designed to prevent additional injuries.

Ok, buddy which is it a yawner or not?

The word "if" means he doesn't know.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I haven't been paying attn to this really, but curious if anyone has tried a squib quick from the new yardages, and if so how it looked. In the past the real downside to a squib was how quickly a guy could get the short kick and head up field. Now he would have 10 yards less to work with. It just seems to me that this might be an even better approach on a shorter field.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

So my question is the Bears decided to keep kicking from the 30 until the league stepped in and said stop. I like the civil disobedience. If the Bears intentionally delay game or take some other penalty to get penalized and then kickoff from the 30, what could the league do? I would like to see other teams join in. The rule makes no sense. They might as well not kickoff and just start the drive at the 20 each time.

Interesting point. Would also have a net effect of allowing your defense a little time to catch their breath too, kind of like a 1/2 timeout.weied move by the bears, as doesn't the longer kick generally help the returner? I think the bears are tying some Sicilian reverse psychology here, hoping teams will do this to devin hester...

 

[GregR]

So my question is the Bears decided to keep kicking from the 30 until the league stepped in and said stop. I like the civil disobedience. If the Bears intentionally delay game or take some other penalty to get penalized and then kickoff from the 30, what could the league do? I would like to see other teams join in. The rule makes no sense. They might as well not kickoff and just start the drive at the 20 each time.

Interesting point. Would also have a net effect of allowing your defense a little time to catch their breath too, kind of like a 1/2 timeout.weied move by the bears, as doesn't the longer kick generally help the returner? I think the bears are tying some Sicilian reverse psychology here, hoping teams will do this to devin hester...

It isn't something anyone would ever do in a game. They were trying to ensure the other team would have to return the kickoff so the Bears kick return unit would get some game experience.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

So my question is the Bears decided to keep kicking from the 30 until the league stepped in and said stop. I like the civil disobedience. If the Bears intentionally delay game or take some other penalty to get penalized and then kickoff from the 30, what could the league do? I would like to see other teams join in. The rule makes no sense. They might as well not kickoff and just start the drive at the 20 each time.

Interesting point. Would also have a net effect of allowing your defense a little time to catch their breath too, kind of like a 1/2 timeout.weied move by the bears, as doesn't the longer kick generally help the returner? I think the bears are tying some Sicilian reverse psychology here, hoping teams will do this to devin hester...

It isn't something anyone would ever do in a game. They were trying to ensure the other team would have to return the kickoff so the Bears kick return unit would get some game experience.

could they just ask the kicker to kick it short?