IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Well, you have to admit that this has some potential to be like the Iranian revolution, which was huge for the US. I know you've said that this outcome is unlikely, but still.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Egypt (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Jackstraw
- Start date
nephilim
Footballguy
i have always appreciated a of voice of reason and a person of consistent intellectual thought (a seeming lacking characteristic of many posters).next time you're in in atlanta let me know. i'll buy you a beer and if time allows maybe a trip to the range. or some basement time involving spirits and cigars... your call...
Cassius
Footballguy
Agree with DD 100% here.Doctor Detroit said:I'm waiting to see if this fizzles out in Egypt but the situation in Tunisia is beneficial to us and to a more free Middle East. Although there is a chance Egypt falls under a more strict Islamic following, I think there is a better chance this gets them more freedoms which is the bottom line. It may parallel August 1978 Iran to the eyes but the movement there was about a much more oppressive state that was as inept as any in modern history under the Shah. That movement was masterminded by Oz or the Aiytollahs, this one in Egypt seems to be a grass roots revolt against the Mubarak government that is themed around individual freedoms and the disposition of the state. This could also turn into another February 1982 Hama, Syria if Mubarak loses too much control and acts with a heavy hand, but more likely it turns into the 2005 uprising in Uzbekistan. If Mubarak is smart he will probably listen to what is happening and act to pacify the revolt through dialogue and an olive branch. Then he can stall and keep the status quo until he turns power over to Gamel. I think the U.S. is taking a wait and see approach and I can see Saudi Arabia, the U.S. and maybe some of the European countries offer their diplomatic advice to Mubarak. If this were happening in Saudi I would worry more about Islamists gaining control but I think Egypt is more culturally, ideologically and socially tied to Europe than most of the Middle East. I think this makes it a lot tougher to Islamist to move into power because even if half of the country can't read, they still are more in-tune with regional and world events than those living in other countries in the Arab/Muslim world. I think many of us saw this coming but I always thought it would take a stronger hold in Iran. We'll see, at this point I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing for us but the next few weeks and months will give us a clearer picture on the implications for the region. Israel is obviously most concerned, I will look forward to reading some Israeli thoughts on what is happening as this unfolds.Bogeys said:Okay DD....you were the one I have been waiting on in this thread, what are your thoughts? You always have good insight into these things.Doctor Detroit said:BoneYardDog said:...
timschochet
Footballguy
What's so funny about this? I don't necessarily agree with Dr. Detroit, but he gave a carefully thought out response which was worth reading and discussing. Why do you find this amusing?
Cassius
Footballguy
Wasn't laughing at DD's post - was laughing at MOP agreeing with him, which I liken to Pee-wee Herman agreeing with a post Stephen Hawking has made about physics.What's so funny about this? I don't necessarily agree with Dr. Detroit, but he gave a carefully thought out response which was worth reading and discussing. Why do you find this amusing?
Last edited by a moderator:
timschochet
Footballguy
Can't agree with this part. We give over a billion dollars a year to Egypt, and have supported their government ever since the Sinai agreement. Most of that is actually a subsidy used to keep certain aerospace companies afloat. But even bigger than that, if an Islamist government takes over there, we are screwed. Oil will shoot through the roof. That's the one result we have to act to prevent. I thought Obama made a good statement today. I know that some Egyptians would have liked him to go farther, but I think his measured approach as leader of the free world was excellent.
timschochet
Footballguy
OK. Well, that's kinda mean...Wasn't laughing at DD's post - was laughing at MOP agreeing with him, which I liken to Pee-wee Herman agreeing with a post Stephen Hawking has made about physics.What's so funny about this? I don't necessarily agree with Dr. Detroit, but he gave a carefully thought out response which was worth reading and discussing. Why do you find this amusing?
Eric Stratton
Footballguy
We can counter oil shooting through the roof by expanding US drilling for oil but we all know that won't happen with this administration.
timschochet
Footballguy
Wow- the news is saying now that Mubarak is ignoring Obama's advice and raising the stakes. He is calling out the tanks and the word is that if people protest tommorow the Army will be ordered to crack down. In Tunisia, when this was ordered, the army ultimately refused. So tommorow we may get a replay of Tunisia- or Tienanemen Square. It all depends on what the army decides to do...
timschochet
Footballguy
Sean Hannity just now: "Seems to me that the Muslim Brotherhood has completely taken this over."
That is really an irresponsible thing for him to say. It's a very irresponsible network anyhow, as we all know, but this is really bad.
That is really an irresponsible thing for him to say. It's a very irresponsible network anyhow, as we all know, but this is really bad.
HellToupee
Footballguy
Wasn't laughing at DD's post - was laughing at MOP agreeing with him, which I liken to Pee-wee Herman agreeing with a post Stephen Hawking has made about physics.What's so funny about this? I don't necessarily agree with Dr. Detroit, but he gave a carefully thought out response which was worth reading and discussing. Why do you find this amusing?
oof
HellToupee
Footballguy
I picture you holding a balloon as you walk down the midway with the rest of the rubes
timschochet
Footballguy
Fox News is seen all over the world. Do you have any idea how foolish, irresponsible and potentially dangerous it is for one of their most prominent figures to assert that the Muslim Brotherhood is behind the protests?
Epic Problem
Footballguy
:homerun:Wasn't laughing at DD's post - was laughing at MOP agreeing with him, which I liken to Pee-wee Herman agreeing with a post Stephen Hawking has made about physics.What's so funny about this? I don't necessarily agree with Dr. Detroit, but he gave a carefully thought out response which was worth reading and discussing. Why do you find this amusing?
Eric Stratton
Footballguy
Go away
timschochet
Footballguy
Well that's a well thought out response, thanks.
Eric Stratton
Footballguy
Yes, it is thought out and didn't include the expletives I wished I could have posted.
I seriously doubt anything Hannity says has any impact on anything going on there. FoxNews is not part of anything going on there. Weren't you just posting on the other thread how obsessed the right is with Soros, and then you try to pull FoxNews into this somehow?
But that said, the Muslim Botherhood will be amoung many of the factions looking for power in whatever emerges out of this mess.
Last edited by a moderator:
timschochet
Footballguy
More Hannity:
When we have Republicans in power like Reagan and George W. Bush, we get more freedom around the world. But when Democrats are in power like Carter, Clinton and Obama, we get situations like this where the extremists take over. Is there a connection?
When we have Republicans in power like Reagan and George W. Bush, we get more freedom around the world. But when Democrats are in power like Carter, Clinton and Obama, we get situations like this where the extremists take over. Is there a connection?
HellToupee
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
Jewell
Footballguy
This is a tough call.
On one hand you have a regime that's favorable to the US & Israel, and is anti-Islamist. On the other hand, Mubarak has been in power forever, and as much as they trouble me, how can you prevent Islamists from running for political office (as Mubarak did with the Muslim Brotherhood) if that's what the people want?
And I won't pretend to know what the people want. I'm guessing it isn't an Islamist government, but in the ensuing chaos an Islamist party could rise to power. Still, it's the people's right to decide their fate minus major human rights abuse. Sorry, some casualties happen in revolutions.
In the end I don't mind Obama not taking a strong position.
On one hand you have a regime that's favorable to the US & Israel, and is anti-Islamist. On the other hand, Mubarak has been in power forever, and as much as they trouble me, how can you prevent Islamists from running for political office (as Mubarak did with the Muslim Brotherhood) if that's what the people want?
And I won't pretend to know what the people want. I'm guessing it isn't an Islamist government, but in the ensuing chaos an Islamist party could rise to power. Still, it's the people's right to decide their fate minus major human rights abuse. Sorry, some casualties happen in revolutions.
In the end I don't mind Obama not taking a strong position.
What they are really waiting for is Palin to weigh in on this. That will be a thread starter!
timschochet
Footballguy
Good points, Jewell.
mr roboto
Footballguy
You can change the channel you know.
whoknew
Footballguy
In defense of tim, I was really surprised earlier by how US-centric Fox's coverage was. The uprising in Egypt was about 35% (pure guess) of the coverage and most of the talk was how it affected the US.
CNN had much better coverage. Al-Jazeera better still.
timschochet
Footballguy
There's no "they", it's just me. But Helltoupee is right; I'm probably getting upset here for no reason. I just can't believe he's saying this stuff.What they are really waiting for is Palin to weigh in on this. That will be a thread starter!
nephilim
Footballguy
anyone who gets their news from only ONE source and believes that ONE source is a gd fraking idiot.
it doesn't matter if that one source is cnn, msnbc, fox, nbc, abc, or cbs.
if you haven't read other sources (eg. bbc, al-jezeera, any number of other sites like wired, slashdot, digg, rededit or other national/international sites) and formed an educated opinion you are taking a knife to a gun fight and wasting everyone's time. of course this takes time and effort. which many posters are unable to manage.
most posters are wasting peoples time.
ignorance can be cured - stupidity is terminal. far too many posters here are terminal.
it doesn't matter if that one source is cnn, msnbc, fox, nbc, abc, or cbs.
if you haven't read other sources (eg. bbc, al-jezeera, any number of other sites like wired, slashdot, digg, rededit or other national/international sites) and formed an educated opinion you are taking a knife to a gun fight and wasting everyone's time. of course this takes time and effort. which many posters are unable to manage.
most posters are wasting peoples time.
ignorance can be cured - stupidity is terminal. far too many posters here are terminal.
Last edited by a moderator:
Eric Stratton
Footballguy
That is what a lot of people think here when you post.I just can't believe he's saying this stuff.What they are really waiting for is Palin to weigh in on this. That will be a thread starter!
whoknew
Footballguy
It's a ####### absurd comment.There's no "they", it's just me. But Helltoupee is right; I'm probably getting upset here for no reason. I just can't believe he's saying this stuff.What they are really waiting for is Palin to weigh in on this. That will be a thread starter!
But I don't know why you can't believe it. Hannity is absurd. He says absurd ####. Its completely in character.
Last edited by a moderator:
timschochet
Footballguy
It's 5:00 am in Cairo. We'll know how this will go down in about 3-4 hours I predict. That's when the people will start protesting again and the tanks will decide to fire or not.
HellToupee
Footballguy
I agree
That is what Hannity does. If good things were going on, you would have those on the left giving Obama all the credit. See Dodds stock market thread.There's no "they", it's just me. But Helltoupee is right; I'm probably getting upset here for no reason. I just can't believe he's saying this stuff.What they are really waiting for is Palin to weigh in on this. That will be a thread starter!
Right, and since it is a Muslim country, they're all guys.Everyone in Egypt had a great season?
HellToupee
Footballguy
bold move & a great way to piss off the general populous
CrossEyed
Footballguy
nephilim
Footballguy
but none are gay.. their 'big guy' hates him some gays... big-time. just like our supposed 'big guy'i think the motto is "don't ask, don't tell, stone away...' BS...Right, and since it is a Muslim country, they're all guys.Everyone in Egypt had a great season?
Clarence the barber
Footballguy
Here's hoping violence is minimized tomorrow/this am.
Christian view of forgiveness and redemption is much different than the Muslim sharia law view of gays. Christians love and accept all who believe. Not that there aren't Christians who condemn gays and bash them, but they are missing the boat on what Christ brought us.but none are gay.. their 'big guy' hates him some gays... big-time. just like our supposed 'big guy'i think the motto is "don't ask, don't tell, stone away...' BS...Right, and since it is a Muslim country, they're all guys.Everyone in Egypt had a great season?
Boom Switch
Footballguy
Can someone explain why we send money to these ingrates again? I guess i can see it since we our economy is doing awesome....
HellToupee
Footballguy
the Christian view is to hate the sin not the sinnerChristian view of forgiveness and redemption is much different than the Muslim sharia law view of gays. Christians love and accept all who believe. Not that there aren't Christians who condemn gays and bash them, but they are missing the boat on what Christ brought us.but none are gay.. their 'big guy' hates him some gays... big-time. just like our supposed 'big guy'i think the motto is "don't ask, don't tell, stone away...' BS...Right, and since it is a Muslim country, they're all guys.Everyone in Egypt had a great season?
nephilim
Footballguy
latest i've heard is bad weather - heavy/torrential rain probable for tomorrow. the test is if the military will fire on civilians (military heavy units deployed this evening). if they fire, s@#$, hits the fan. if they don't mubarak is toast.
Boom Switch
Footballguy
Exactly. Nobody wants to see muslims killing eachother.....
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Yeah, yeah, yeah we give a lot of money out all over the world. Of course it can have a long-term impact but right now it really has little to do with the United States. Sure if Islamists take over or if Egypt tries to renege on the Sinai agreement things will get ugly but this thing can go a lot of different ways and I think most of them are neither good or bad as far as we are concerned. Thought Obama said the right things and I hope we can stand back and let things take their natural course. Yemen is going nuts too, to me that is where the real danger is. Algeria, Tunisia and Egypt will come through this just fine but Yemen could be Somalia on the peninsula which would be very bad.
timschochet
Footballguy
You're right that Yemen is being ignored here. Yemen is real trouble...
timschochet
Footballguy
We started off giving them money as a reward for the Sinai Agreement. After that, it was because they were the one country maintaining a peace with Israel and it was felt like they could be a jump start for more. In terms of the volatile Middle East, Mubarak has been a pretty steady ally of the United States.But like so many of our foreign aid expenditures, it has devolved over the years into a subsidy of aerospace- we give Egypt money to buy weapons and high tech airplanes from companies like Boeing- thus keeping those industries thriving. Now we're trapped- if we cut the aid, then we lose all the jobs at home. There seems to be no good solution.Can someone explain why we send money to these ingrates again? I guess i can see it since we our economy is doing awesome....
From the US perspective of wanting stability in the region, shouldn't we be secretly hoping Mubarak is successful? It is highly likely whatever emerges will not be friendly towards the US. Egypt is a more moderate country, but when revolutions happen, it is not the moderate voices when carry the day.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Says the guy with 1 post in the thread.
Oh yeah?
Heh, actually your 100% right. Just figured a board this opinionated would've jumped more on this. Then again, given that the opposition to Mubarek appears to be across many different groups and classes, it's a lot harder to pin down exactly what will happen here if the government falls...or even if it stays. Not going to be easy for our current administration and future administrations, that seems clear.-QGBritain's Daily Telegraph is indicating that leaked documents show that the US has been supporting the dissidents.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...d-uprising.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...d-uprising.html
Similar threads
