What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Electric Cars (Tesla and Others) (2 Viewers)

jb1020 said:
Just saw the announcement of the Audi e-tron.  At $75k,  the Tesla seems like the better option. 
Click to expand...
Think that is aimed more at the Jaguar I-Pace, right?

Some people are opting for CPO Model S (tons in the $50-65K range) because you can get them quicker than the Model 3. But the M3 was already the #5 passenger car sold in the U.S. in August - trailing only Camry, Accord, Civic & Corolla - and #1 by sales $$. September ramp should be higher.

(this thread is always FUD & shorts so you’d never know there was good news out of Fremont)

Lots of EV competition coming on line over the next few years: BMW iX3 suv in 2019, i5 sedan in 2021, i4 coupe the year after that. Mercedes has 10 EQ models which will be released by 2022, with the EQC going into production late next year  (80 kw, 0-60 in 4.9.) Mini E & Porsche Taycan comes out next year. Ford says it will have 16 all electric models by 2022. Honda & Volkswagen each have several launches planned. Fisker has been reborn, Byton looks legit, Farraday Future seems shady but I guess they have funding now.

Instant torque is addicting stuff.  :D

 
Nugget said:
I'd think the Audi e-tron competitor would be the Model X, not the 3.  Until we get more performance stats from Audi, it seems like it will be difficult to judge.
Click to expand...
e Tron v I-Pave v. Model X (75D)

ETA: Article incorrectly states the Model X does not have rear jump seats (the Model S sedan does) - you can get a 5-seat, or add a third row that comes in either 6 seat or 7 seat configurations. The 75D is the smaller battery but a better comp to the other two.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm just waiting for an EV pickup truck to come out. With all that torque I can envision 15k lb+ towing capacity in a smaller form factor than the monster F150s and Silverados of the world. I have a '17 Ram1500 so I can wait for a few years until these become a reality but I fully intend my next truck to be EV

 
E-Z Glider said:
How long is the wait on the Model 3's nowadays? Are they still offering incentives?
Click to expand...
About 2 months now for non-reservation holders. The $7500 Federal Tax credit runs out 12/31/2018 because Tesla filled the quota for EV sales. Next year it will be $3750 for the first 6 months and half that the latter part of 2019. You have to order (not take delivery) by 12/31 to get the full credit this year.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
BobbyLayne said:
About 2 months now for non-reservation holders. The $7500 Federal Tax credit runs out 12/31/2018 because Tesla filled the quota for EV sales. Next year it will be $3750 for the first 6 months and half that the latter part of 2019. You have to order (not take delivery) by 12/31 to get the full credit this year.
Click to expand...
Per Tesla, the bolded is incorrect. You must take delivery to get the $7500 credit this year. 

 
culdeus said:
Lol at a model x selling for 75k.  I looked at getting this CPO and couldn't even find one under 100k for months.
Click to expand...
The article says $80.1K. IDK Looks to me like a 75D with no options and textile seats is $84.2 before tax, and that doesn't include the $7500 tax credit. No tax credit on CPO sales.

75Ds are kind of rare in the CPO market. EV-CPO Hunter has 1 Used ($84K) and 13 Inventory ($98-108K) - pretty much all of them are loaded.

I have a neighbor who got a 60D when it first came out, but those were quickly discontinued. Most folks want the bigger battery because of range anxiety. He uses it exclusively for work (contractor.)

If you actually take the time to use trip planner of a 75D v 100D, there are very few instances the additional 53 miles will mean anything. The key to road tripping in a Tesla is to charge when you are below 50% (charges faster) and NEVER top; it off - just charge enough to get to the next Supercharger you are planning to hit. The last 20% and especially the last 10% take forever to balance. But SC are plentiful and there is never a need if you are traveling any interstate.

 
FBG26 said:
Per Tesla, the bolded is incorrect. You must take delivery to get the $7500 credit this year. 
Click to expand...
You are correct, my bad. I'll correct my earlier post.

ETA: which makes sense because we're all cash basis as individual tax payers, e.g., you can't get credit for something you haven't purchased in full yet. To order only takes a $2500 deposit.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
BobbyLayne said:
The article says $80.1K. IDK Looks to me like a 75D with no options and textile seats is $84.2 before tax, and that doesn't include the $7500 tax credit. No tax credit on CPO sales.

75Ds are kind of rare in the CPO market. EV-CPO Hunter has 1 Used ($84K) and 13 Inventory ($98-108K) - pretty much all of them are loaded.

I have a neighbor who got a 60D when it first came out, but those were quickly discontinued. Most folks want the bigger battery because of range anxiety. He uses it exclusively for work (contractor.)

If you actually take the time to use trip planner of a 75D v 100D, there are very few instances the additional 53 miles will mean anything. The key to road tripping in a Tesla is to charge when you are below 50% (charges faster) and NEVER top; it off - just charge enough to get to the next Supercharger you are planning to hit. The last 20% and especially the last 10% take forever to balance. But SC are plentiful and there is never a need if you are traveling any interstate.
Click to expand...
Ok, well that makes some sense cost wise.  It does seem like CPO prices are down a little bit since I looked 4-5 months back in the lead in to the Model3.  

 
To me, the Model S is in a severe need of a cosmetic update. It is starting to look outdated. 

I cant imagine a consumer in 2019 looks at the Taycan and Model 3 and chooses the Model S until it gets an update.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
To me, the Model S is in a severe need of a cosmetic update. It is starting to look outdated. 

I cant imagine a consumer in 2019 looks at the Taycan and Model 3 and chooses the Model S until it gets an update.
Click to expand...
The S goes away in 1-2 years to be replaced by the Y.  

 
fantasycurse42 said:
To me, the Model S is in a severe need of a cosmetic update. It is starting to look outdated. 

I cant imagine a consumer in 2019 looks at the Taycan and Model 3 and chooses the Model S until it gets an update.
Click to expand...
Model 3 ramp is the path to profitability, not the Model S. Also: https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/09/20/tesla-model-3-earns-perfect-5-star-nhtsa-safety-rating.html

But that’s the least surprising news ever. The Model S was the safest car ever tested when it came out & the Model X is almost impossible to rollover. Heck someone in. Model X just got hit by a DEA plane crashing & came out unhurt.

Tesla Semi sales (Walmart just ordered 40)

Model Y - reveal is March 15, should go into production 2020. Probably. Tesla time, push it back 6 months to a year.

Roadster relaunch - already taking $50K preorder reservations & a few have wired $250K to get a Founders series. 200 Kw battery pack, 3 motors, 0-60 1.9 seconds, 620 mile range. 2020 delivery dates but factoring in Tesla time, that’s probably only the Founders series.

Tesla Pickup - conceptual, no timeline released, but will def be after Model Y. Who knows, probably looking at 2021-22 at the earliest.

Agreed 6+ years for the Model S is a little stale. Only substantisl change to the body was the front facia in 2016.

But internally there have been literally hundreds of changes through the 6-20 monthly improvements on the line and periodic over the air updates. It’s literally the only car that gets better the longer you own it.

Model X & those silly falcon wing doors (which are awesome but also mean no roof rack) was a distraction. But they are a blast to drive. I took a 90D (non-performance) to Newport last summer & got into several light-to-light races versus Porsche & BMW owners. Like, every single time I had the pole position at a light all week. :lmao:  It’s like they know they can’t win in a 0-45 but just wanna see how much they’ll lose by.

There are plenty of reasons to criticize Tesla. They almost always overpromise & underdeliver. They are incredibly bad at meeting timeline objectives. It’s a cult like culture & the fan boi’s can be a bit much. The build quality is getting better but still seriously awful. Misaligned trim, 2-3 quarters thick panel gaps - you can’t put one quarter between most non-luxury car panels - & their paint is soft, often flawed on delivery day. The first successful new USA car manufacturer in the last century is not great at quality. They try to make up for it in service but that’s gone by the wayside a bit since the 3 launched. The CPO program is delivering so many poor quality cars it almost feels like a scam the last few months.

But my response to any critic of Tesla is “Have you driven one?” Because they are, hands down, the most fun piece of technology on the road. I have spent week long drives (all through Turo) with a P85DL, the aforementioned X 90D and an MS 75D (in Michigan.) It’s the best road trip car ever IMO.

Rooting hard for these guys, and all makers of EVs.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
What happens if the company goes under?  All current owners are acrewed and the value of these things runs to zero, right?  Or is that so incredibly unlikely at this point?

 
Otis said:
What happens if the company goes under?  All current owners are acrewed and the value of these things runs to zero, right?  Or is that so incredibly unlikely at this point?
Click to expand...
Much more likely a GM or Honda scoop up the non defaulted portion.  This isnt a dot com there are major assets in place. 

 
Otis said:
What happens if the company goes under?  All current owners are acrewed and the value of these things runs to zero, right?  Or is that so incredibly unlikely at this point?
Click to expand...
If that happened the new parent Co would likely honor the manufacturers warranty as they would be acquiring both asserts & liabilities; warranty costs are already baked into the balance sheet.

Q3 - record deliveries 

 
They will be seriously in financial trouble if their stock isn't $360 by March. Big financial liability on the horizon.

This quote explains it for those that don't understand the situation. Basically, they have a convertible bond coming due, if the price is above $360, they can simply pay it with stock, if not, they'll be on the hook for close to $1B in cash, which is a huge chunk of their current cash on hand. Currently, the bonds are trading at 85 cents on the dollar with a yield over 8% - needless to say, the bond market is becoming skeptical here and with yields like that, raising future money will not be cheap.

By pushing the common stock's price above the $360 level, his tweet has put a $900 million convert issue above its conversion price, which would effectively let the electric-auto maker pay off that obligation in stock instead of cash.

Tesla has a $920 million 0.25% convertible issue due Feb. 27, 2019, which would be convertible into common at a price of $359.8676 per share. If the stock trades below that price at the conversion price, the holder would be better off taking cash. That would put pressure on Tesla while it continues to burn cash, as of the second quarter. But by being able to redeem the debt in stock would obviate the obligation to come up with over $900 million in cash.

In addition, Tesla also has another 1.25% convertible totaling $1.38 billion that matures Feb. 25, 2021. This issue also converts at the same price, and a common share price over $360 also would obviate the need to pay off this convert in cash.
Click to expand...

 
Last edited by a moderator:
NTSB Rates the Tesla Mode 3 the Safest Car Ever Rated

NHTSA has released its probability of injury stats for the Tesla Model 3 and it achieved the lowest probabilities of any vehicle ever tested by the agency – arguably making the electric car the safest based on the standard.

It comes a few weeks after NHTSA gave a five-star safety rating to the Model 3.

The vehicle achieved five-star ratings in every category, which is great but not unprecedented.

At the time, Tesla CEO Elon Musk said that upcoming probability of injury statistics from NHTSA could show that the vehicle is even safer than what the star rating system shows.

Tesla pulled the data from NHTSA and came to the conclusion that the Model 3 Long Range Rear-Wheel Drive has achieved the lowest probability of injury of any vehicle ever tested by the road authority.

 
Jobber said:
NTSB Rates the Tesla Mode 3 the Safest Car Ever Rated

NHTSA has released its probability of injury stats for the Tesla Model 3 and it achieved the lowest probabilities of any vehicle ever tested by the agency – arguably making the electric car the safest based on the standard.

It comes a few weeks after NHTSA gave a five-star safety rating to the Model 3.

The vehicle achieved five-star ratings in every category, which is great but not unprecedented.

At the time, Tesla CEO Elon Musk said that upcoming probability of injury statistics from NHTSA could show that the vehicle is even safer than what the star rating system shows.

Tesla pulled the data from NHTSA and came to the conclusion that the Model 3 Long Range Rear-Wheel Drive has achieved the lowest probability of injury of any vehicle ever tested by the road authority.
Click to expand...
Honda or Tesla?

 
In the third quarter of 2018, Tesla has sold* 69,925 vehicles (Model X,S,3) in the USA compared to Mercedes Benz’s 66,542.

The company almost outsold BMW in the USA as well falling only 1754 vehicles short.

*pretty sure that means delivered - TSLA has never measured by “sold/ordered”

 
whoknew said:
Picked up my Model 3 last week and love it so far.

I've read on the tesla motor club forums that you should put some coating on the car and only hand wash it. Is this true? Anyone know?
Click to expand...
Did you ever get PPF or ceramic coating?

Been following a good thread over on TMC started by a guy who works on 10-20 Tesla’s per week.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/i-work-on-10-20-tesla-weekly-what-questions-do-you-have-about-window-tint-ppf-and-coatings.131310/page-6

 
Rode in a Tesla for the first time last week.  Now I'm poking away on the website.  We are probably a few years away from another car purchase, but I really liked that experience.

 
Poke_4_Life said:
Rode in a Tesla for the first time last week.  Now I'm poking away on the website.  We are probably a few years away from another car purchase, but I really liked that experience.
Click to expand...
Everyone is quick to criticize Tesla and how they are running their business (and a lot of it is justified), and then they ride in one, and it's a whole new ballgame.

 
Vanilla Guerrilla said:
If you don't ever need your revenues to be higher than your expenses, you can create a great widget.
Click to expand...
Well, that's up to the owners (investors) to decide. In the long run, expenses higher than revenue will either get corrected, or Tesla won't be in business

 
Anyone know if the Model 3 just had a price break?  I get in and poke around/designing my own every few weeks and it seems like there are some steps missing now.  Looks like the autopilot options have been condensed.  The only option you get now is the Enhanced AP and its $5000

Doesn't look like free supercharging is an option with the 3 now (not sure if it ever was though).  

 
jb1020 said:
Anyone know if the Model 3 just had a price break?  I get in and poke around/designing my own every few weeks and it seems like there are some steps missing now.  Looks like the autopilot options have been condensed.  The only option you get now is the Enhanced AP and its $5000

Doesn't look like free supercharging is an option with the 3 now (not sure if it ever was though).  
Click to expand...
The mid-range model is now available.  It is FWD only with shorter range.  

 
fantasycurse42 said:
They will be seriously in financial trouble if their stock isn't $360 by March. Big financial liability on the horizon.

This quote explains it for those that don't understand the situation. Basically, they have a convertible bond coming due, if the price is above $360, they can simply pay it with stock, if not, they'll be on the hook for close to $1B in cash, which is a huge chunk of their current cash on hand. Currently, the bonds are trading at 85 cents on the dollar with a yield over 8% - needless to say, the bond market is becoming skeptical here and with yields like that, raising future money will not be cheap.
Click to expand...
You mad, bro?

 
For someone who loves the styling of the model S, does it make sense to buy a used '14 or '15 now?  I've seen them in the $40k range but is the company's future uncertain and is the model S being phased out?  I'd love a newer one with 300+ mile range but they seem to run $100k or so.  I'm not in dire need of a car now but will be in a year, two at the most.

 
James Daulton said:
For someone who loves the styling of the model S, does it make sense to buy a used '14 or '15 now?  I've seen them in the $40k range but is the company's future uncertain and is the model S being phased out?  I'd love a newer one with 300+ mile range but they seem to run $100k or so.  I'm not in dire need of a car now but will be in a year, two at the most.
Click to expand...
It's not super clear the S will be phased out.  The Y is still only rumors on body type.  

 
3rd quarter results were pretty amazing. I would not worry about a cash crunch at this point with free cash flow of 800 million in 3rd quarter and increase in cash position of over 700 million and they paid down 80 million of loans. I would not be worried about upcoming maturities with that much free cash flow. 

 
Just worked up a fully loaded Model 3 price $70k'

Fully loaded Model S $101.5k

2015 with 18k mileage, 265 mile range, no enhance autopilot $55k

I think I'd go used S over new S but the loaded 3 is pretty enticing (but still pricey)

None of the prices factor in incentives. 

 
James Daulton said:
Just worked up a fully loaded Model 3 price $70k'

Fully loaded Model S $101.5k

2015 with 18k mileage, 265 mile range, no enhance autopilot $55k

I think I'd go used S over new S but the loaded 3 is pretty enticing (but still pricey)

None of the prices factor in incentives. 
Click to expand...
The owner of the shop that I manage has a Model S with the 265 mile range.  Hers is a few years old.  She just had to have Tesla replace the batteries of her car due to some sort of charging issue.   Luckily for her-the car comes with an 8 year battery/drive train warranty. Otherwise it would have costed her like over $40k for the replacement.  If you buy a preowned Model S I would absolutely make sure that the warranty is transferable.  Also--a while back Tesla mentioned something about pre-paying for a battery for $12k. If you are planning on buying a Tesla and keeping it around for a while--it's something thats worth considering. 

 
One thing I've heard about the really fast teslas is they chew up tires like crazy.  I mean I guess all fast cars do, but you need to be ready for that.

 
culdeus said:
One thing I've heard about the really fast teslas is they chew up tires like crazy.  I mean I guess all fast cars do, but you need to be ready for that.
Click to expand...
This is true.  You also can't/shouldn't go to just any tire shop to have them replaced.  Some of the models have tires that are purposely set with negative camber. The geometry/angles of how their tires are to be properly installed is something that many typical tire shops are not familiar with.  You'll want to go to places that are very familiar with Tesla's and have plenty of knowledge with their unique geometry.  

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

dgreen
Automobile DIY work that everyone should do
2
Replies
80
Views
2K
belljr
belljr
FiredMartz
New Fad in SoCal....stopping 2 or 3 cars behind at a stoplight...
Replies
36
Views
1K
shuke
shuke
Max Power
Most Embarrassing Thing Someone in Your Family Does?
2 3
Replies
108
Views
4K
Zow
Zow

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top