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Electric Cars (Tesla and Others) (1 Viewer)

James Daulton said:
Was reading an article on the absurdly low number of used Model 3s available for sale.  Something like if you compare the number of model 3s made with the amount of used inventory to similarly priced bmw's and audi's, there are like 20x more used bmw's and audi's for sale.

People seem to love their Teslas. 
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That, and the seemingly low repair rates. Compared against the German luxuries, where owning one past year 3 is like playing Russian Roulette.

 
Fan of Charles McCoy said:
That, and the seemingly low repair rates. Compared against the German luxuries, where owning one past year 3 is like playing Russian Roulette.
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Have not found this to be true at all.  Have owned an Audi (currently have a ‘12 A6), Benz and 2 Porsches.  Every one has been rock solid. 

 
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James Daulton said:
Was reading an article on the absurdly low number of used Model 3s available for sale.  Something like if you compare the number of model 3s made with the amount of used inventory to similarly priced bmw's and audi's, there are like 20x more used bmw's and audi's for sale.

People seem to love their Teslas. 
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I think that limited number of used model 3's has more to do with Tesla's production numbers and dealership conditions that it does "love for the cars" by the owners.  We are talking about a model where people had to pre-pay deposits on them. We are also talking about a relatively new vehicle that until recently was not meeting its production estimates.   A large portion of used cars cycle into the market due to leases getting turned back in. Tesla still hasn't filled all of the pre-orders for the Model 3.   This means that there are relatively very few model 3's that are going into leases compared to the other brands being mentioned.  I think Tesla's are great--but there are a lot of moving parts beyond "people loving their Tesla's" that contribute to this phenomenon.  

 
A question to those that may know. If Tesla builds cars in China, and the batteries are also manufactured in China, do tariffs apply if these cars are also sold there?

@fantasycurse42

 
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Jobber said:
A question to those that may know. If Tesla builds cars in China, and the batteries are also manufactured in China, do tariffs apply if these cars are also sold there?

@fantasycurse42
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Chinese tariffs would not apply to a car built in China. This is the primary reason Tesla has accelerated their Gigafactory 3 build.

 
For you guys considering a Tesla (or any electric car) and live in a cold area....

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/06/aaa-confirms-what-tesla-bmw-nissan-ev-owners-suspected-of-cold-weather.html

Under ideal conditions, these products can deliver more than 200 miles per charge and, in some cases, even 300. But as many owners discovered last week as winter storms slammed much of the country, cold weather does not qualify as “ideal.” A new AAA study finds that when the thermometer dropped to 20 degrees Fahrenheit, range fell by an average of 41 percent on the five models it tested.
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I would never buy a Tesla, I feel Elon Musk is the Monorail salesman from the Simpsons and most of the numbers pumping the stock are dishonest at best. It is too bad because I feel like they are going to go under at some point within the next few years, but the factory provides many blue collar jobs in an area that does not have many. 

 
Looks like the Model 3 had another price drop.  About $1,100.  

I like the trend.  I don't know much about the auto industry in general, but a lot of people are saying as soon as there is a lease program prices should come down a little more.  I still want to see the Y and the truck before pulling the trigger.   Plus the Rivian SUV.  

 
huthut said:
I would never buy a Tesla, I feel Elon Musk is the Monorail salesman from the Simpsons and most of the numbers pumping the stock are dishonest at best. It is too bad because I feel like they are going to go under at some point within the next few years, but the factory provides many blue collar jobs in an area that does not have many. 
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Interesting.  I don’t understand positions like this.  Elon has probably done 3 of the most difficult things a person can do.  

-First, become a billionaire without starting from a position of money.  This alone puts him in an extremely rare group of people 

-Second, became the first person in history to privatize going into space.  Unbelievable achievement that can not be overstated   

-Third, built a auto manufacturer from scratch.  The list of failures in this field is miles long and the list of successes is extremely short   

What this man has accomplished in his life is nothing less then staggering   

 
dkp993 said:
Interesting.  I don’t understand positions like this.  Elon has probably done 3 of the most difficult things a person can do.  

-First, become a billionaire without starting from a position of money.  This alone puts him in an extremely rare group of people 

-Second, became the first person in history to privatize going into space.  Unbelievable achievement that can not be overstated   

-Third, built a auto manufacturer from scratch.  The list of failures in this field is miles long and the list of successes is extremely short   

What this man has accomplished in his life is nothing less then staggering   
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The amount of haters Elon brings with him is pretty staggering.  This isn't a Theranos or Fyre type scam.  This is legit product that is starting to ramp quickly. His space venture may end up taking over the world (literally).  

 
huthut said:
I would never buy a Tesla, I feel Elon Musk is the Monorail salesman from the Simpsons and most of the numbers pumping the stock are dishonest at best. It is too bad because I feel like they are going to go under at some point within the next few years, but the factory provides many blue collar jobs in an area that does not have many. 
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Go drive one.

 
dkp993 said:
Interesting.  I don’t understand positions like this.  Elon has probably done 3 of the most difficult things a person can do.  

-First, become a billionaire without starting from a position of money.  This alone puts him in an extremely rare group of people 

-Second, became the first person in history to privatize going into space.  Unbelievable achievement that can not be overstated   

-Third, built a auto manufacturer from scratch.  The list of failures in this field is miles long and the list of successes is extremely short   

What this man has accomplished in his life is nothing less then staggering   
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Doesn't he even offer the patents Tesla holds for free to any other auto makers.  He's not trying to get rich selling cars.  He's trying to show the world cars can be taken off fossil fuels and can be completely powered by reusable energy.   

 
jb1020 said:
Doesn't he even offer the patents Tesla holds for free to any other auto makers.  He's not trying to get rich selling cars.  He's trying to show the world cars can be taken off fossil fuels and can be completely powered by reusable energy.   
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Yeah - he is open source.  He has such a lead though that it will be really hard for anyone to catch him.

 
xulf said:
Yeah - he is open source.  He has such a lead though that it will be really hard for anyone to catch him.
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I would also add I believe he has singlehandedly forced every major auto maker to take electric cars seriously, show there is a marketplace for then and speed up there development of the platform by probably 10 fold.  

 
huthut said:
I would never buy a Tesla, I feel Elon Musk is the Monorail salesman from the Simpsons and most of the numbers pumping the stock are dishonest at best. It is too bad because I feel like they are going to go under at some point within the next few years, but the factory provides many blue collar jobs in an area that does not have many. 
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Top five worst take ever on this bored?

 
jb1020 said:
Doesn't he even offer the patents Tesla holds for free to any other auto makers.  He's not trying to get rich selling cars.  He's trying to show the world cars can be taken off fossil fuels and can be completely powered by reusable energy.   
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I'm a Elon musk fan--but this particular dynamic is vastly overrated.  The reason why Tesla offers its patents to other auto makers for free is because they didn't "invent" the technology to make electric cars--the innovation and technology was available for anybody to do it.  Tesla just put the technology in a nicely designed and packaged product.  I assure you that Tesla is not willing to let other auto makers copy their actual styling and design--which has been the bread and butter of Tesla.  

 
dkp993 said:
Interesting.  I don’t understand positions like this.  Elon has probably done 3 of the most difficult things a person can do.  

-First, become a billionaire without starting from a position of money.  This alone puts him in an extremely rare group of people 

-Second, became the first person in history to privatize going into space.  Unbelievable achievement that can not be overstated   

-Third, built a auto manufacturer from scratch.  The list of failures in this field is miles long and the list of successes is extremely short   

What this man has accomplished in his life is nothing less then staggering   
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You can accomplish anything once you are a billionaire by paying smart people to do stuff for you. It is not like he invented the Tesla car or anything, just entered as a businessman. I am not saying he did not earn his billions, just that he is a huckster who is probably hindering every engineering project he touches. I am 30 miles from the factory and know 20 people that have them, from what I can tell they are BMW priced cars made with 90's Kia quality. Maybe I am wrong and there is a market for them, but I feel like a Bolt is a better made car at half the price (though kind of ugly) and would get one of them over any Tesla.

 
jonessed said:
Board.

There are quite a lot of auto/stock experts that believe Tesla is massively overvalued.  I don’t think it’s really going out on a limb to agree.
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I tend to agree that the stock is overpriced, but the bears have been wrong thus far, and have nothing to do with the actual product.  Because even the biggest TSLA haters I know admit that the cars are fantastic.  Arguing otherwise is crazy talk.  

 
huthut said:
You can accomplish anything once you are a billionaire by paying smart people to do stuff for you. It is not like he invented the Tesla car or anything, just entered as a businessman. I am not saying he did not earn his billions, just that he is a huckster who is probably hindering every engineering project he touches. I am 30 miles from the factory and know 20 people that have them, from what I can tell they are BMW priced cars made with 90's Kia quality. Maybe I am wrong and there is a market for them, but I feel like a Bolt is a better made car at half the price (though kind of ugly) and would get one of them over any Tesla.
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No question having billions helps and of course he has tons of smart talented people working for him. Any successful businessman does.  But he’s far from a figure head.  Despite all the billionaires and talented people before him he’s still the first person to privatize space travel. The vast majority of countries on this planet haven’t accomplished that.  If that was his only lifetime achievement it would be more then 99.99% of us will ever accomplish, but it isn’t. He’s a brilliant visionary and talented engineer but he’s also awkward and flawed which puts some people off.  To me he’s as far from a huckster as one gets.  Just my opinion of course.  

 
huthut said:
You can accomplish anything once you are a billionaire by paying smart people to do stuff for you. It is not like he invented the Tesla car or anything, just entered as a businessman. I am not saying he did not earn his billions, just that he is a huckster who is probably hindering every engineering project he touches. I am 30 miles from the factory and know 20 people that have them, from what I can tell they are BMW priced cars made with 90's Kia quality. Maybe I am wrong and there is a market for them, but I feel like a Bolt is a better made car at half the price (though kind of ugly) and would get one of them over any Tesla.
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jeebus.  You really know nothing about him.  Suggest you read up on the history of SpaceX.

 
Anyone who is as brilliant as Musk is going to have some issues.  If you saw his recent interview, they asked what it's like being in his head...his response was "you dont want to know, it's always firing and you cant turn it off" (or something like that). 

His impact on the greater good is undeniable.  Revolutionizing the car industry, getting space travel back up to speed and affordable, and Solar City is doing amazing things with back up power for entire countries (not to mention the roofing they make for residential homes).

Dude is a driven genius who just cant handle some normal day to day stuff.

 
huthut said:
You can accomplish anything once you are a billionaire by paying smart people to do stuff for you. It is not like he invented the Tesla car or anything, just entered as a businessman. I am not saying he did not earn his billions, just that he is a huckster who is probably hindering every engineering project he touches. I am 30 miles from the factory and know 20 people that have them, from what I can tell they are BMW priced cars made with 90's Kia quality. Maybe I am wrong and there is a market for them, but I feel like a Bolt is a better made car at half the price (though kind of ugly) and would get one of them over any Tesla.
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Another top 5 bored worst take post.

Your on quite a roll here brother. 

 
I was going to briefly list Musk’s accomplishments to date 

:lol:

but it’s so astonishing I’ve decided to go back to my weeklong project of ranking the Top 25 Beatles songs.

He’s one of the more remarkable humans in all of recorded history. Bit of a pill, no doubt - he was ousted as CEO from zip2 & PayPal, gets into bizarre fights (pedo diver guy), and doesn’t seem to be great interpersonally. 

But he works harder than anyone I have ever heard of, and seems wholly disinterested in the wealth he has acquired. Too busy trying to figure out how to save the planet & colonize Mars to enjoy his money.

 
My boy Jeff Bezos would beat him up and take his lunch money.  Musk is overrated and a pothead.  His ego will get the best of him at some point.

 
Elon Musk is a visionary with the ability to marshal people to accomplish something incredible.  A huckster is someone that convinces people to give them money and then doesn't accomplish anything.

He's not infallible, some of his visionary ideas/plans certainly won't work but I'll take a guy that tries for the impossible and sometimes fails but also sometimes succeeds any day.

 
I know the guy is kind of a hot mess socially, and has some other issues. But to deny his incredible vision in automobiles, space and energy is just crazy talk. It makes me think that his detractors have an axe to grind somehow. Being that Musks impact is felt in a lot of industries. The typical detractor likely is one of these:

- Disagrees with his politics

- Is involved with the ICE industry in some way (dealer/salesman, mechanic, distribution, etc)

- Invested financially in TSLA stock drop

- Invested financially in GM, VW, BMW, Ford, other

- Experienced a RIF due to Tesla upheaval of auto industry

- Others that don’t come to mind presently

 
Jobber said:
I know the guy is kind of a hot mess socially, and has some other issues. But to deny his incredible vision in automobiles, space and energy is just crazy talk. It makes me think that his detractors have an axe to grind somehow. Being that Musks impact is felt in a lot of industries. The typical detractor likely is one of these:

- Disagrees with his politics

- Is involved with the ICE industry in some way (dealer/salesman, mechanic, distribution, etc)

- Invested financially in TSLA stock drop

- Invested financially in GM, VW, BMW, Ford, other

- Experienced a RIF due to Tesla upheaval of auto industry

- Others that don’t come to mind presently
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There is a "Green guilt" element that is strong.  People don't want to be confronted with the fact that positive environmental change might actually be....fun.  They are invested in an industry that wants people to think green is hard, expensive, and doomed from the onset.  That way they don't have to feel bad man about not getting behind it.  Having a personality like Elon at the front of that makes it easier to sleep at night.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
They will be seriously in financial trouble if their stock isn't $360 by March. Big financial liability on the horizon.

This quote explains it for those that don't understand the situation. Basically, they have a convertible bond coming due, if the price is above $360, they can simply pay it with stock, if not, they'll be on the hook for close to $1B in cash, which is a huge chunk of their current cash on hand. Currently, the bonds are trading at 85 cents on the dollar with a yield over 8% - needless to say, the bond market is becoming skeptical here and with yields like that, raising future money will not be cheap.
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Guess they’ll be servicing this from the $3.7Bn in cash they have on hand. 

Two more profitable quarters & they’ll be in the S&P 500.

 
BobbyLayne said:
FUD
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Whatever you want to tell yourself :shrug:

9 times out of 10, when the person with the most intricate knowledge of the inner financial workings of a company leaves, there is a reason in doing so. Those people are heavily incentivized by rising stock prices, usually the most financially sound individuals out there, and don't typically leaves 10's of millions on the table. 

 
fantasycurse42 said:
Whatever you want to tell yourself :shrug:

9 times out of 10, when the person with the most intricate knowledge of the inner financial workings of a company leaves, there is a reason in doing so. Those people are heavily incentivized by rising stock prices, usually the most financially sound individuals out there, and don't typically leaves 10's of millions on the table. 
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He already retired once. It wasn't exactly a shock to people who know the company.

 
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