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Electric Cars (Tesla and Others) (4 Viewers)

BobbyLayne said:
Hop on the Turo app and rent one for a day or a weekend.
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Central MS is a bit of a black hole when it comes to this stuff.  We have a Supercharger, and plans for future ones that are well laid out across the state, but the nearest Store or Service Center is in Atlanta...nearly 400 miles away.   Hard to imagine dropping over $50k on one of these then if something pops up I have to make arrangements to get to Dallas or Atl for the weekend.  

That does give me a little heart burn thinking about the purchase.  How often does a new Model 3 need to go to a service center?  

 
jb1020 said:
Central MS is a bit of a black hole when it comes to this stuff.  We have a Supercharger, and plans for future ones that are well laid out across the state, but the nearest Store or Service Center is in Atlanta...nearly 400 miles away.   Hard to imagine dropping over $50k on one of these then if something pops up I have to make arrangements to get to Dallas or Atl for the weekend.  

That does give me a little heart burn thinking about the purchase.  How often does a new Model 3 need to go to a service center?  
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They'll send a Tesla Ranger to fix most if not all of any problems you have.

 
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jb1020 said:
Central MS is a bit of a black hole when it comes to this stuff.  We have a Supercharger, and plans for future ones that are well laid out across the state, but the nearest Store or Service Center is in Atlanta...nearly 400 miles away.   Hard to imagine dropping over $50k on one of these then if something pops up I have to make arrangements to get to Dallas or Atl for the weekend.  

That does give me a little heart burn thinking about the purchase.  How often does a new Model 3 need to go to a service center?  
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once a year.  

Not to be a ####, but this is easily googleable.  

 
culdeus said:
once a year.  

Not to be a ####, but this is easily googleable.  
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huh

Didn't even occur to me he was asking about the recommended annual service (which many owners, if they don't have any known issues, just skip.) I presumed he was asking about reliability, e.g., how much of an issue is it gonna be "if something pops up."

The annual service visit costs $600 out of pocket. I know a lot of people who skip it or wait until year 2 (it's recommended you do with 12K miles or 12 months, whichever comes first.)

Def a few things to think about if you want to buy a Tesla:

  • if you don't have 240V / dryer plug in your garage, you'll spend a few hundred getting an electrician to add a 50 amp circuit.
  • insurance will likely be higher (& quotes vary widely) than what you pay now
  • annual maintenance over four years will be $2,400
 
If it's readily available when our CRV lease is up in the fall, I'm seriously considering the Kia Niro EV. Otherwise I buy out the lease and make a disappointed punt for a year or two.

 
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/25/tech/elon-musk-sec-settlement-contempt/index.html

New York (CNN Business)The Securities and Exchange Commission has asked a federal judge to decide if Tesla CEO Elon Musk should be held in contempt of a settlement deal reached last year.

The request from regulators in a court filing Monday sent the carmaker's stock plummeting more than 4% after hours.

The US government's ask is tied to a claim from Musk on Twitter last week that "Tesla made 0 cars in 2011, but will make around 500k in 2019."

Regulators say that Musk did not ask for or receive pre-approval before publishing the tweet, per the terms of the settlement agreement.

He later had to send a follow-up tweet indicating that the company will actually deliver just 400,000 cars this year.
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xulf said:
Elon Musk✔@elonmusk

SEC forgot to read Tesla earnings transcript, which clearly states 350k to 500k. How embarrassing …
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That's cute, but the deal he reached (for defrauding investors by claiming to have funding secured to take Tesla private) entailed him having every tweet related to financials of the company (or details that impact financials) vetted prior to sending. This tweet wasn't vetted. 

Furthermore, don't you think it is quite telling that their head of legal left the next day after this tweet? Perhaps he doesn't want to go to jail? The evidence is clear as day, if anyone cares to actually look at it for what it is. 

Honestly, the more I think about it, it has nothing to do with Tesla, it's purely Musk to me. He's like an evil genius baby, if this man was to be booted by the SEC from Tesla, I'd become a buyer of the stock. 

 
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stbugs said:
Certainly not surprising considering the stuff they went through to try and meet Musk’s predictions.
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The more thought I've put into it, the more ready I'd be to buy the dip if Musk was somehow ousted. I bet there are a lot of people out there who agree. 

The Musk cult followers would sell, and those that think he is a terrible CEO would jump in to BTD. Would prob make for a good buying opportunity. 

 
xulf said:
Elon Musk✔@elonmusk

SEC forgot to read Tesla earnings transcript, which clearly states 350k to 500k. How embarrassing …
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Lol. So he tweets something that everyone will read which will buoy the stock and then uses the earnings transcript which hardly anyone will read as his backup.

I don’t know all the details but I get what the SEC is saying is that he is dropping one part of the equation and pumping things up by being a bit misleading and having his fall back be a much less publicized document.

Not a big deal to me but I see what the SEC is saying. 

 
fantasycurse42 said:
The more thought I've put into it, the more ready I'd be to buy the dip if Musk was somehow ousted. I bet there are a lot of people out there who agree. 

The Musk cult followers would sell, and those that think he is a terrible CEO would jump in to BTD. Would prob make for a good buying opportunity. 
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Could be. All the rush and tents were mainly because of all his hype numbers that he put out maybe even to the dismay of the rest of the Tesla execs.

All I know is that I’d be very careful in my purchases of used model 3s. No chance I’d want one of the ones put together in the tent. 

 
stbugs said:
Lol. So he tweets something that everyone will read which will buoy the stock and then uses the earnings transcript which hardly anyone will read as his backup.

I don’t know all the details but I get what the SEC is saying is that he is dropping one part of the equation and pumping things up by being a bit misleading and having his fall back be a much less publicized document.

Not a big deal to me but I see what the SEC is saying. 
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His tweets have to be vetted regardless, this was part of the deal, this tweet was not. Their chief legal counsel was gone the next day, he obviously knew something was wrong. 

For the life of me, I can't figure out why a CEO would go after the SEC, what's the end game there?

 
fantasycurse42 said:
His tweets have to be vetted regardless, this was part of the deal, this tweet was not. Their chief legal counsel was gone the next day, he obviously knew something was wrong. 

For the life of me, I can't figure out why a CEO would go after the SEC, what's the end game there?
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I'm just providing the info at hand.  But, what is YOUR end game here?  You have something up your butt about Tesla/Elon.

 
Even with the settlement parameters does this really rise to the level of getting the SEC involved? Plenty of other things for the SEC to do.  :rolleyes:

 
fantasycurse42 said:
His tweets have to be vetted regardless, this was part of the deal, this tweet was not. Their chief legal counsel was gone the next day, he obviously knew something was wrong. 

For the life of me, I can't figure out why a CEO would go after the SEC, what's the end game there?
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He can’t check his ego.  

Musk’s war with the SEC has absolutely no upside for Tesla.  It’s monumentally stupid.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
That's cute, but the deal he reached (for defrauding investors by claiming to have funding secured to take Tesla private) entailed him having every tweet related to financials of the company (or details that impact financials) vetted prior to sending. This tweet wasn't vetted. 

Furthermore, don't you think it is quite telling that their head of legal left the next day after this tweet? Perhaps he doesn't want to go to jail? The evidence is clear as day, if anyone cares to actually look at it for what it is. 

Honestly, the more I think about it, it has nothing to do with Tesla, it's purely Musk to me. He's like an evil genius baby, if this man was to be booted by the SEC from Tesla, I'd become a buyer of the stock. 
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Yeah, the General Counsel had only been with Tesla for two months!  Not a good sign.

As to Tesla stock: An interesting comparison I've been using in the accounting courses I teach at my university is to look at Tesla 2017 and Amazon 2000.  Very similar - high levels of debt; increasing operating losses despite significant growth in sales; and negative cash flow from operations.  Amazon made it work (see around 2004 and forward).  The verdict's still out on Tesla.

 
jonessed said:
Yes.  He not only broke the deal, he thumbed his nose at it.
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Why on Earth would a CEO go to war with the SEC? The ego on this guy, his battle with shorts, everything here is just disturbing. 

xulf said:
I'm just providing the info at hand.  But, what is YOUR end game here?  You have something up your butt about Tesla/Elon.
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The more thought I put into it, nothing to do with Tesla, everything to do with Elon. 

He's always been an arrogant #####, but intentionally misleading investors about a buyout, that was the final line for me. I could've been on the wrong side of that and gotten crushed, luckily I wasn't, but the slap on the wrist he received for doing that, bad precedent - then he continues to go after the SEC afterwards, something needs to be done to show every CEO that you will get hurt for unethical behavior. It's bigger than Elon at this point, imo, but he needs to be the example. 

Company long term would be better off without him, put some adults in charge. 

 
tri-man 47 said:
Yeah, the General Counsel had only been with Tesla for two months!  Not a good sign.

As to Tesla stock: An interesting comparison I've been using in the accounting courses I teach at my university is to look at Tesla 2017 and Amazon 2000.  Very similar - high levels of debt; increasing operating losses despite significant growth in sales; and negative cash flow from operations.  Amazon made it work (see around 2004 and forward).  The verdict's still out on Tesla.
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Except for the positive cash flow the past two quarters you mean?

 
It feels like they would have been better off leaving it as-is, bailing on the low-cost 3, and delivering a lower-cost car at, you know, a lower cost to them. 

 
I hope they can make it work but they don't seem to have the production capacity necessary to pump out the volume necessary for a low margin car.

I still love the model S.

 
So just an update on my boss who owns a Model S.  Just a few disclaimers—-we are from Southern California where there is a pretty high volume of Teslas—so I cannot speak for areas that might not have the same issues due to lower volume.  She absolutely loves the Tesla product in general. When her car is working—-she loves it. However—she admits that every single after sales service involving Tesla has been a complete nightmare.  Long waits, hard time getting appointments, out of warranty repairs are very pricey, limited availability for parts.  For example—just 10 days ago—her headlights on her model S completely went out while driving home at nighttime.  She took the car to Tesla—they had no headlights in stock—but they told her they would order them—so several days and $2500.   She had to fight to get a loaner car while that work was done.  When she picked up the car several days later and paid the $2500–she got home to find out that they gave her the car back with a tire that was 12 lbs below the tire pressure of the other 3.   I drive a Dodge caravan—when i take my car in for a cheap oil change—they check the tire pressure.  While I think Tesla does produce a great product—I do think that they are lacking in many other business factors.  While they might be producing a higher volume of vehicles—I dont see them increasing the volume of their support staff/supplies/parts with the same vigor.  This will catch up to them in a few years when this higher volume of vehicles start to age and require service/maintenance/parts.  

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
So just an update on my boss who owns a Model S.  Just a few disclaimers—-we are from Southern California where there is a pretty high volume of Teslas—so I cannot speak for areas that might not have the same issues due to lower volume.  She absolutely loves the Tesla product in general. When her car is working—-she loves it. However—she admits that every single after sales service involving Tesla has been a complete nightmare.  Long waits, hard time getting appointments, out of warranty repairs are very pricey, limited availability for parts.  For example—just 10 days ago—her headlights on her model S completely went out while driving home at nighttime.  She took the car to Tesla—they had no headlights in stock—but they told her they would order them—so several days and $2500.   She had to fight to get a loaner car while that work was done.  When she picked up the car several days later and paid the $2500–she got home to find out that they gave her the car back with a tire that was 12 lbs below the tire pressure of the other 3.   I drive a Dodge caravan—when i take my car in for a cheap oil change—they check the tire pressure.  While I think Tesla does produce a great product—I do think that they are lacking in many other business factors.  While they might be producing a higher volume of vehicles—I dont see them increasing the volume of their support staff/supplies/parts with the same vigor.  This will catch up to them in a few years when this higher volume of vehicles start to age and require service/maintenance/parts.  
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😱 $2,500 for headlights!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!????!11!? I hope they threw some free blinker fluid in. I’m speechless.

 
Johnny Rock said:
😱 $2,500 for headlights!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!????!11!? I hope they threw some free blinker fluid in. I’m speechless.
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Yes—they are modular—so the entire module is replaced. $1250 per headlight.   I mentioned this earlier in the thread. Lucky for my boss—her car came with an 8 year warranty on the battery.  About a year ago her batteries would no longer charge properly. Tesla had her car for like a month or more—they did give her a loaner car—and when she went to pick her car back up—the service tech mentioned that had her battery been out of warranty—it would have costed her somewhere between $30-40k  for the replacement that she got for free.  Like I said—the product is fantastic the 95%-99% of the time when it’s working as its supposed to.  The times when their products need proper servicing or propietary parts is absolutely brutal.   

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
So just an update on my boss who owns a Model S.  Just a few disclaimers—-we are from Southern California where there is a pretty high volume of Teslas—so I cannot speak for areas that might not have the same issues due to lower volume.  She absolutely loves the Tesla product in general. When her car is working—-she loves it. However—she admits that every single after sales service involving Tesla has been a complete nightmare.  Long waits, hard time getting appointments, out of warranty repairs are very pricey, limited availability for parts.  For example—just 10 days ago—her headlights on her model S completely went out while driving home at nighttime.  She took the car to Tesla—they had no headlights in stock—but they told her they would order them—so several days and $2500.   She had to fight to get a loaner car while that work was done.  When she picked up the car several days later and paid the $2500–she got home to find out that they gave her the car back with a tire that was 12 lbs below the tire pressure of the other 3.   I drive a Dodge caravan—when i take my car in for a cheap oil change—they check the tire pressure.  While I think Tesla does produce a great product—I do think that they are lacking in many other business factors.  While they might be producing a higher volume of vehicles—I dont see them increasing the volume of their support staff/supplies/parts with the same vigor.  This will catch up to them in a few years when this higher volume of vehicles start to age and require service/maintenance/parts.  
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I don’t see this improving if Tesla is shifting away from Brick and Mortar into an online sales environment. 

 
tri-man 47 said:
Dragons said:
Except for the positive cash flow the past two quarters you mean?
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:shrug:   Yes, they're doing better than in 2017, but I'm not yet convinced.
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Musk said today they're unlikely to see a Q1 profit due to an unspecified one-time charge.

They need more production facilities. The Model Y (the Model 3 equivalent of the Model X) will be built at the Reno Gigafactory. They broke ground on the Chinese plant. But it's insane trying to keep up with MS, MX and Model 3 demand all out of Fremont for both the US and the EU.

 
Nugget said:
I don’t see this improving if Tesla is shifting away from Brick and Mortar into an online sales environment. 
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I completely agree with this. I think their product is great--but they are having major "scale-ability" issues.  There is a massive difference in being a "boutique" auto maker versus being a main stream player.  Main stream auto makers need massive infrastructures in place that boutique auto makers don't.   Tesla and Elon seem to have a tunnel vision focus on producing more and more vehicles--while paying little to no attention to supply chain issues for after sales service/parts..etc.   Is Tesla producing and adding super charger stations at a rate that will support their ambitious production goals?   I don't know the numbers--but I doubt it.  I already hear about people out here in Southern California saying that the convenience of super charger stations has greatly diminished with the volume of their vehicles in use increasing.  They also want to start leasing more model 3's which will even further this issue.  

Basically what I'm saying is this--even if Tesla solves it's car production issues--that's just a small part of the dynamic. Once they get that sorted out--they'll have some major infrastructure, customer service, and parts supply chain issues they need to address.  They might be better off focusing on being an exclusive high end  automaker that strives to provide a great product backed with great customer service to fewer customers (at higher prices).  They are already having quality control issues with their smaller workforce and higher production numbers. I think there is a great chance that they are cheapening and eroding their brand by trying to scale too fast and eliminating the exclusivity that originally made them more desirable.   If Mont Blanc started mass producing their pens and started offering lower quality products at prices that most could afford--I think it would do more harm to their brand than good.   I think Tesla is kinda doing the same thing.  

 
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jvdesigns2002 said:
the service tech mentioned that had her battery been out of warranty—it would have costed her somewhere between $30-40k
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It’s cool, and I love the idea of Insane Mode, but battery replacement costs of $30-40k 😳 and soft paint on newly delivered cars isn’t going to work for me. Too much risk. And for those reasons...I’m out.

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
Yes—they are modular—so the entire module is replaced. $1250 per headlight.   I mentioned this earlier in the thread. Lucky for my boss—her car came with an 8 year warranty on the battery.  About a year ago her batteries would no longer charge properly. Tesla had her car for like a month or more—they did give her a loaner car—and when she went to pick her car back up—the service tech mentioned that had her battery been out of warranty—it would have costed her somewhere between $30-40k  for the replacement that she got for free.  Like I said—the product is fantastic the 95%-99% of the time when it’s working as its supposed to.  The times when their products need proper servicing or propietary parts is absolutely brutal.   
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Lol at 30-40k for a module replacement.   

 
How come Tesla is the only car you have to prefix any complaint with the statement that "I love the car, BUT" to not get jumped on by a bunch of sycophants defending Elon Musk's honor (not referring to anything posted in the thread, mainly twitter etc.)? It is like a cult, as this point he might stop with the cars and just make his own Scientology rip off. 

 
I was dead set on a Tesla and these new options are tempting, but holy hell if I got in a fender bender and had a 6+ month wait while my car was in the shop I would absolutely lose my mind.  

 
jb1020 said:
I was dead set on a Tesla and these new options are tempting, but holy hell if I got in a fender bender and had a 6+ month wait while my car was in the shop I would absolutely lose my mind.  
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I'm thinking they are better as a 2nd car.  Or at least car 1a with a solid car 2a on standby.

 
The battery replacement on the Model 3 is supposedly around $10,000 right now.  They have an 8 year/120,000 mile warranty (on the long-range).  By that time, the price is expected to be much less as the tech improves.

 
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