Electric Cars (Tesla and Others) (5 Viewers)

[dkp993]

I completely agree with this. I think their product is great--but they are having major "scale-ability" issues.  There is a massive difference in being a "boutique" auto maker versus being a main stream player.  Main stream auto makers need massive infrastructures in place that boutique auto makers don't.   Tesla and Elon seem to have a tunnel vision focus on producing more and more vehicles--while paying little to no attention to supply chain issues for after sales service/parts..etc.   Is Tesla producing and adding super charger stations at a rate that will support their ambitious production goals?   I don't know the numbers--but I doubt it.  I already hear about people out here in Southern California saying that the convenience of super charger stations has greatly diminished with the volume of their vehicles in use increasing.  They also want to start leasing more model 3's which will even further this issue.  

Basically what I'm saying is this--even if Tesla solves it's car production issues--that's just a small part of the dynamic. Once they get that sorted out--they'll have some major infrastructure, customer service, and parts supply chain issues they need to address.  They might be better off focusing on being an exclusive high end  automaker that strives to provide a great product backed with great customer service to fewer customers (at higher prices).  They are already having quality control issues with their smaller workforce and higher production numbers. I think there is a great chance that they are cheapening and eroding their brand by trying to scale too fast and eliminating the exclusivity that originally made them more desirable.   If Mont Blanc started mass producing their pens and started offering lower quality products at prices that most could afford--I think it would do more harm to their brand than good.   I think Tesla is kinda doing the same thing.  

I’ve read in multiple articles the past couple days that along with the 35k car being released and the subsequent shuttering of the in-person dealerships Tesla is going to dedicate a large amount of resources to fix their service center issues.  Specifically the speed of repairs. 

All of the mentioned items above (not the post I quoted here specifically but the posts throughout) are exactly what I’ve pointed out many times here about how difficult it is to create a large scale auto manufacturer from scratch. The path is littered with failed attempts. Tesla has cleared many of the extremely large hurdles but there are more ahead.  

IMO Elon should be given credit for the massive amount of wins not beat up for the expected struggles that come with this monumental task.  

 

[jvdesigns2002]

I’ve read in multiple articles the past couple days that along with the 35k car being released and the subsequent shuttering of the in-person dealerships Tesla is going to dedicate a large amount of resources to fix their service center issues.  Specifically the speed of repairs. 

All of the mentioned items above (not the post I quoted here specifically but the posts throughout) are exactly what I’ve pointed out many times here about how difficult it is to create a large scale auto manufacturer from scratch. The path is littered with failed attempts. Tesla has cleared many of the extremely large hurdles but there are more ahead.  

IMO Elon should be given credit for the massive amount of wins not beat up for the expected struggles that come with this monumental task.  

Oh--i don't disagree with you at all. I actually think Elon is a genius and I agree that he has cleared many hurdles. With that said--I think that many people that purchase Tesla's (especially the higher dollar ones) aren't doing so knowing that they will most likely be feeling substantial headaches and annoyances in regards to service issues.    Most are buying high dollar vehicles that they think will come with a high quality service department---and this is not the case.   I love Tesla's--but I personally would not purchase one as my primary vehicle until they clearly prove that their service and parts infrastructure shows some massive improvement.   With that said--I don't blame anybody for buying one now.  However--they should only buy one knowing that any maintenance and service will be a massive headache for the foreseeable future.   

 

[James Daulton]

I wonder how long it will take these price drops to filter through to the used market?  I haven't seen prices budge yet on Tesla's site at least.

And even with the price drop a non-performance S with all the bells and whistles still clocks in at $95k. 

 

[culdeus]

I wonder how long it will take these price drops to filter through to the used market?  I haven't seen prices budge yet on Tesla's site at least.

And even with the price drop a non-performance S with all the bells and whistles still clocks in at $95k. 

Their cpo market gives some indications of residual.  

 

[Foosball God]

I wonder how long it will take these price drops to filter through to the used market?  I haven't seen prices budge yet on Tesla's site at least.

And even with the price drop a non-performance S with all the bells and whistles still clocks in at $95k. 

I was looking a bit the other night and you can get a brand new one for less than some of the used ones out there.  I think some dealers are going to end up taking a loss there.

 

[culdeus]

I was looking a bit the other night and you can get a brand new one for less than some of the used ones out there.  I think some dealers are going to end up taking a loss there.

The options and incentives on some of these are hard to wade thru. The software packages for AP, for one. 

 

[culdeus]

Yeah, I mean they have 2016 85D with <20k miles on for $52k.  With the downward pressure on price from Model 3 I'm not sure who that really appeals to.  

I mean I'm really seriously looking at one of the low spec Model 3s,  Have been for awhile.  Wife gets free charging at work.  And I do a lot of consulting for Tesla, so maybe could get some sort of quasi employee deal worked out.  

 

[James Daulton]

Reading Tesla boards, service availability is an issue as well as build quality sometimes.  I’d be nervous about buying a car that I had a hard time getting serviced.

 

[stbugs]

Reading Tesla boards, service availability is an issue as well as build quality sometimes.  I’d be nervous about buying a car that I had a hard time getting serviced.

I wouldn’t touch them right now. Expensive and tough repairs and honestly, the build quality isn’t surprising. They were building things in tents as fast as they could to get to the milestones Musk set to keep the stock up. You have to think that all the cars built the past couple years under those conditions are going to be a little rough.

I think those issues could be the things that haunt Tesla. If the other manufacturers with all of the assembly experience and networks or dealers/service get closer then they’ve got a big advantage for normal folks who don’t want to pays thousands for headlights or tens of thousands for batteries on the hope that the replacements will be cheaper in the future or be without a car for months.

 

[culdeus]

It's not clear in Texas if Tesla could open up service centers without dealership footprint.  They are already operating on the edge of the law as is on their delivery model.  

 

[dkp993]

Yeah, I mean they have 2016 85D with <20k miles on for $52k.  With the downward pressure on price from Model 3 I'm not sure who that really appeals to.  

I mean I'm really seriously looking at one of the low spec Model 3s,  Have been for awhile.  Wife gets free charging at work.  And I do a lot of consulting for Tesla, so maybe could get some sort of quasi employee deal worked out.  

Have been doing tons of research for the past 2 months.  Having a tough time deciding on a new low 50’s model 3 or the equivalent cost S.  Leaning towards the 3 as it’s the newest tech and evolution while the S platform is at the end of its life cycle.   Factor in the mileage the S will have, I put about 30k a year on my car, and it gets clearer.  What pulls me back to the S is that the bugs have been worked through and it’s size, which is appealing.   

 

[BobbyLayne]

Have been doing tons of research for the past 2 months.  Having a tough time deciding on a new low 50’s model 3 or the equivalent cost S.  Leaning towards the 3 as it’s the newest tech and evolution while the S platform is at the end of its life cycle.   Factor in the mileage the S will have, I put about 30k a year on my car, and it gets clearer.  What pulls me back to the S is that the bugs have been worked through and it’s size, which is appealing.   

Quite a few threads on TMC forums discussing this, or polling folks who had/have MS and then bought a M3. I'd say it's generally running 2:1 to 3:1 the 3 is a better buy.

Personally, I would want a late 2014 P85D or early (through March) 2015 with the Plus suspension. Tesla's first flagship sedan was the P85+, and (before they offered 85D) replaced it with the P85D - but for the first six months of production, they left the stiffer + suspension alone. It's a bit of a unicorn. All of them have insane mode (3.1 0-60), and a few are Ludicrous (2.8.) All of them offer Free Supercharging which stays with the car regardless of how many times its sold (it's pay per use for 2017 forward.) I think that era - several years into the Model S, before the X came out - saw the best build qualities Tesla has had.

The Model 3 Performance Long Range now has 325 miles of rated range and the 0-60 is a very respectable 3.2ish. It uses much more efficient motors so you'll spend less charging it at home over the bigger sedan. I recently did a loop around Manhattan in Drive on Nav in a Model 3 - my neighbor did nothing more than give voice commands to the car, and we drove the length of the FDR, across upper Manhattan, and all the way down the West Side highway. Much of that was stop and go, bumper to bumper traffic (22 miles in about an hour.) He never made turns (his hands were on the wheel), go pedal or brake - the car handled lane changes (after he confirmed suggestions), stops, starts, et al, flawlessly.

 

[joffer]

It's not clear in Texas if Tesla could open up service centers without dealership footprint.  They are already operating on the edge of the law as is on their delivery model.  

there’s a service center 5 miles from me.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Verified account @elonmusk5 minutes ago

More

Model Y unveil event on March 14 at LA Design Studio

 

[culdeus]

Quite a few threads on TMC forums discussing this, or polling folks who had/have MS and then bought a M3. I'd say it's generally running 2:1 to 3:1 the 3 is a better buy.

Personally, I would want a late 2014 P85D or early (through March) 2015 with the Plus suspension. Tesla's first flagship sedan was the P85+, and (before they offered 85D) replaced it with the P85D - but for the first six months of production, they left the stiffer + suspension alone. It's a bit of a unicorn. All of them have insane mode (3.1 0-60), and a few are Ludicrous (2.8.) All of them offer Free Supercharging which stays with the car regardless of how many times its sold (it's pay per use for 2017 forward.) I think that era - several years into the Model S, before the X came out - saw the best build qualities Tesla has had.

The Model 3 Performance Long Range now has 325 miles of rated range and the 0-60 is a very respectable 3.2ish. It uses much more efficient motors so you'll spend less charging it at home over the bigger sedan. I recently did a loop around Manhattan in Drive on Nav in a Model 3 - my neighbor did nothing more than give voice commands to the car, and we drove the length of the FDR, across upper Manhattan, and all the way down the West Side highway. Much of that was stop and go, bumper to bumper traffic (22 miles in about an hour.) He never made turns (his hands were on the wheel), go pedal or brake - the car handled lane changes (after he confirmed suggestions), stops, starts, et al, flawlessly.

Still think they are missing the boat not delivering a ultra short range Model 3.  I can't be the only one that drives more than 100 miles a day on two vehicles once a decade.  

To me the shorter the range the better.  I'll end up paying for more parts, cells, and charge time I don't need.

One of the reasons I've been waiting is to get the lowest possible range.  

I do see the posts about how the 2016-2017 was the likely sweetspot for S model value.  I tend to agree with those points, but I've been in some 18 model S and they seem a step function above the rest.  

I only work with them on the battery side so I rarely get to see the finished product, sadly.  

 

[culdeus]

wondering if I should get a license plate that reads HI2FC42 ?

 

[huthut]

Still think they are missing the boat not delivering a ultra short range Model 3.  I can't be the only one that drives more than 100 miles a day on two vehicles once a decade.  

To me the shorter the range the better.  I'll end up paying for more parts, cells, and charge time I don't need.

One of the reasons I've been waiting is to get the lowest possible range.  

I do see the posts about how the 2016-2017 was the likely sweetspot for S model value.  I tend to agree with those points, but I've been in some 18 model S and they seem a step function above the rest.  

I only work with them on the battery side so I rarely get to see the finished product, sadly.  

Does it need to be a Tesla, if not you are in luck!

 

[jb1020]

Still think they are missing the boat not delivering a ultra short range Model 3.  I can't be the only one that drives more than 100 miles a day on two vehicles once a decade.  

To me the shorter the range the better.  I'll end up paying for more parts, cells, and charge time I don't need.

One of the reasons I've been waiting is to get the lowest possible range.  

I do see the posts about how the 2016-2017 was the likely sweetspot for S model value.  I tend to agree with those points, but I've been in some 18 model S and they seem a step function above the rest.  

I only work with them on the battery side so I rarely get to see the finished product, sadly.  

My guess...If they had a M3 for $20K that had a range of 100 miles or so the already stressed Supercharger network would break.   Just a thought.

 

[culdeus]

My guess...If they had a M3 for $20K that had a range of 100 miles or so the already stressed Supercharger network would break.   Just a thought.

Why do you need to use a supercharger?  I don't anticipate ever using one.

 

[jb1020]

Why do you need to use a supercharger?  I don't anticipate ever using one.

People would try and stretch the limit.  30 minutes to kill for lunch, why not stop at the SC and top it off???

I agree you shouldn't need one, but I think people will still use them.  

 

[culdeus]

People would try and stretch the limit.  30 minutes to kill for lunch, why not stop at the SC and top it off???

I agree you shouldn't need one, but I think people will still use them.  

This seems like a horrible waste of one's life and time. 

SC stations account for less than .1% of total charging.  If anything a smaller capacity cell bank should reduce this, not increase.  

 

[dkp993]

This seems like a horrible waste of one's life and time. 

SC stations account for less than .1% of total charging.  If anything a smaller capacity cell bank should reduce this, not increase.  

Agreed. I drive between 150 to 250 miles a day. Not even considering supercharging when thinking about my Tesla purchase. See no reason to unless on a road trip and I have other cars for that.  

 

[culdeus]

Agreed. I drive between 150 to 250 miles a day. Not even considering supercharging when thinking about my Tesla purchase. See no reason to unless on a road trip and I have other cars for that.  

Precisely,  I think people really have some strange hangups and risks when thinking about this stuff.  Most of it completely irrational.

 

[dkp993]

Precisely,  I think people really have some strange hangups and risks when thinking about this stuff.  Most of it completely irrational.

No doubt. I would also add ill informed. Was at some very good friends house last night and was talking about my desire to buy a Tesla. My friends wife said she wouldn’t buy one because she doesn’t want to wait for “over an hour” while her car charges on the way home from work.  Her commute is less then 100 miles round trip. When I laid out to her how it actually is she was truly shocked.  It just goes to show how much stigma is still out there for the average person on electric cars.  

 

[culdeus]

No doubt. I would also add ill informed. Was at some very good friends house last night and was talking about my desire to buy a Tesla. My friends wife said she wouldn’t buy one because she doesn’t want to wait for “over an hour” while her car charges on the way home from work.  Her commute is less then 100 miles round trip. When I laid out to her how it actually is she was truly shocked.  It just goes to show how much stigma is still out there for the average person on electric cars.  

I explained range anxiety to someone in light of the Great Dallas Gas Crisis of 2017 

https://money.cnn.com/2017/08/31/news/hurricane-harvey-gas-dallas/index.html

I think even for ICE users, the thought that they might get stranded is a really huge psychological hurdle.  They are willing to do anything to maintain their range, so having a electric car with limited ability (in their mind) to fulfill those requirements on demand is a huge issue.

With the Dallas gas crunch you had people with PLENTY of range in their ICE car and no risk of running out all crush the gas stations at the same time to secure their range out into the next week.  Same mental gymnastics at work.  

 

[Phil Elliott]

Still think they are missing the boat not delivering a ultra short range Model 3.  I can't be the only one that drives more than 100 miles a day on two vehicles once a decade.  

To me the shorter the range the better.  I'll end up paying for more parts, cells, and charge time I don't need.

One of the reasons I've been waiting is to get the lowest possible range.  

I do see the posts about how the 2016-2017 was the likely sweetspot for S model value.  I tend to agree with those points, but I've been in some 18 model S and they seem a step function above the rest.  

I only work with them on the battery side so I rarely get to see the finished product, sadly.  

Ultrashort version = golf cart. Parent's choice of transportation for elementary students in our neighborhood.

 

[Nugget]

Still think they are missing the boat not delivering a ultra short range Model 3.  I can't be the only one that drives more than 100 miles a day on two vehicles once a decade.  

To me the shorter the range the better.  I'll end up paying for more parts, cells, and charge time I don't need.

One of the reasons I've been waiting is to get the lowest possible range.  

I do see the posts about how the 2016-2017 was the likely sweetspot for S model value.  I tend to agree with those points, but I've been in some 18 model S and they seem a step function above the rest.  

I only work with them on the battery side so I rarely get to see the finished product, sadly.  

What would be your price point for a short range model 3?  I don't think they can sustain margins at $35K.   They don't have the production capabilities to produce loss leaders.

 

[culdeus]

What would be your price point for a short range model 3?  I don't think they can sustain margins at $35K.   They don't have the production capabilities to produce loss leaders.

Well, down the road I would think they could do something like a 120-140 mile 2 seater or 2 door coupe that is really stripped down.  If they could get a 100km/10kw type drive train then the cost could reasonably be in the high 20s.  

The model they are going with on the 3 is really genius.  Nearly no single use touch points whatsoever cuts down on component costs.  Offering limited options, things like that.  

 

[Ron Swanson]

Ultrashort version = golf cart. Parent's choice of transportation for elementary students in our neighborhood.

Indeed.  My favorite local mode of transportation.  We made ours DOT legal and registered it as a NEV so we can run it on any street posted 35 or below.  Which in our small town is pretty well everywhere. We started using it about 3 years ago and with our FLA batteries we were getting 15-20 miles range @ top speed of 30 MPH.  This week I'm converting it over to lithium ion (Nissan Leaf cells) that should increase our torque and range, last longer, and require less maintenance. Really excited about this project.  *Baby Tesla*

 

[joffer]

I hit the Austin SC at lunch every once in a while because it’s a nice walk from one of favorite Tex-Mex places.

 

[dkp993]

I hit the Austin SC at lunch every once in a while because it’s a nice walk from one of favorite Tex-Mex places.

Joffer.  What model do you have?

 

[joffer]

Joffer.  What model do you have?

2016 S75

 

[dkp993]

2016 S75

Nice.  What’s your real world daily range?   

 

[joffer]

Nice.  What’s your real world daily range?   

not sure what you mean.  if I go to the office it’s 30 miles round trip, but I only go in 2-3 days a week.  If I fully charge it I get about 235 miles.

i have taken it from Austin to Eastern PA two times.

 

[BobbyLayne]

No doubt. I would also add ill informed. Was at some very good friends house last night and was talking about my desire to buy a Tesla. My friends wife said she wouldn’t buy one because she doesn’t want to wait for “over an hour” while her car charges on the way home from work.  Her commute is less then 100 miles round trip. When I laid out to her how it actually is she was truly shocked.  It just goes to show how much stigma is still out there for the average person on electric cars.  

My buddy who has an X (rare 60) and a 3 (Performance LR) always answers the common Q "how long does it take to charge?" with "5 seconds."

Every night, grab the UMC off the wall hangar, plug in car, get up in the morning to a full tank.

Which is sufficient for like 360 of 365 days of the year for the vast majority of people. And when you road trip, you charge just enough to get to the next SC. I've done a few road trips in both the S and the X, I never charged above 75%. It's advantageous to run the battery down to under 30% because it charges faster at the SC if it's less full (the top half takes longer the charge; the last 10-20% can be especially slow.)

Anyway, came here to post this thread for you since I know you are mulling over the Used Model S vs. New Model 3 question. 

 

[xulf]

My buddy who has an X (rare 60) and a 3 (Performance LR) always answers the common Q "how long does it take to charge?" with "5 seconds."

Every night, grab the UMC off the wall hangar, plug in car, get up in the morning to a full tank.

Which is sufficient for like 360 of 365 days of the year for the vast majority of people. And when you road trip, you charge just enough to get to the next SC. I've done a few road trips in both the S and the X, I never charged above 75%. It's advantageous to run the battery down to under 30% because it charges faster at the SC if it's less full (the top half takes longer the charge; the last 10-20% can be especially slow.)

Anyway, came here to post this thread for you since I know you are mulling over the Used Model S vs. New Model 3 question. 

Yeah - plugging it in is a breeze.  The SC is lightning fast when you are low --- but we have only used it twice (between the time we bought the 3 and getting the new line at the house).

We have the long range, but I don't know if we will do a cross country in it since our Pilot has a DVD player for our 5 and 6 year old.

 

[jb1020]

Someone help me with their real world experience.  I drive to Miss State a good bit for football and baseball games and what not.  Its almost always an up and back trip.  It totals right at 230 miles round trip.  

One your average day of decent weather, driving 65-70 mph, is the 264 mile range going to be plenty?

Seems dumb to even try on the 240 range model, but someone tell me if it can be done?  Theres 2 plugs in Starkville at a grocery store I could top off if necessary.    Not sure how fast they would charge though.  

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Have been doing tons of research for the past 2 months.  Having a tough time deciding on a new low 50’s model 3 or the equivalent cost S.  Leaning towards the 3 as it’s the newest tech and evolution while the S platform is at the end of its life cycle.   Factor in the mileage the S will have, I put about 30k a year on my car, and it gets clearer.  What pulls me back to the S is that the bugs have been worked through and it’s size, which is appealing.   

This is why I went with the S.  Most of the tech gets pushed through anyway.  Are there hardware differences?  Sure.  Especially wrt the Autopilot.  And if that's a thing for you, then I understand.  It wasn't for me.  Sure, I started with 33k miles on it, but that's about a year worth of driving.  At the end of the day, if you get to drive this car 9 years rather than 10, is it going to be life-altering?  Ultimately, I decided I don't trust the Model 3s that have been rolling out of the factory, and I just prefer the aesthetic of the S.

Another thing I've discovered driving the last 3 months is that I thought I really liked the clean look of the dash in the 3, with no screen in front of your face and a clear shot over the dash.  But I find myself looking at that screen all. the. time.  I don't think I'd like having to glance to my right to look at the main screen constantly.  

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Someone help me with their real world experience.  I drive to Miss State a good bit for football and baseball games and what not.  Its almost always an up and back trip.  It totals right at 230 miles round trip.  

One your average day of decent weather, driving 65-70 mph, is the 264 mile range going to be plenty?

Seems dumb to even try on the 240 range model, but someone tell me if it can be done?  Theres 2 plugs in Starkville at a grocery store I could top off if necessary.    Not sure how fast they would charge though.  

240?  I wouldn't.

Mine maxes at 230.  They don't recommend charging it to Max regularly.  Battery life can be impacted.  I charge to 205ish for my regular commute.  I wouldn't do the full charge unless we're taking it a long distance.  I have a 35 mile commute each way daily.  That's if I come straight to work and go straight home.  That almost never happens.  Call it 80 miles daily.  I generally end up with around 35-45 miles left after two days of commuting.  Sometimes more.  Sometimes less.  You'll get variability in your range.  Some of it you have control over.  But I didn't really buy this car to drive like @spOOfy's mom.

 

[Foosball God]

This is why I went with the S.  Most of the tech gets pushed through anyway.  Are there hardware differences?  Sure.  Especially wrt the Autopilot.  And if that's a thing for you, then I understand.  It wasn't for me.  Sure, I started with 33k miles on it, but that's about a year worth of driving.  At the end of the day, if you get to drive this car 9 years rather than 10, is it going to be life-altering?  Ultimately, I decided I don't trust the Model 3s that have been rolling out of the factory, and I just prefer the aesthetic of the S.

Another thing I've discovered driving the last 3 months is that I thought I really liked the clean look of the dash in the 3, with no screen in front of your face and a clear shot over the dash.  But I find myself looking at that screen all. the. time.  I don't think I'd like having to glance to my right to look at the main screen constantly.  

Damn it!  Now you've got me looking at used Model S again.

 

[xulf]

Someone help me with their real world experience.  I drive to Miss State a good bit for football and baseball games and what not.  Its almost always an up and back trip.  It totals right at 230 miles round trip.  

One your average day of decent weather, driving 65-70 mph, is the 264 mile range going to be plenty?

Seems dumb to even try on the 240 range model, but someone tell me if it can be done?  Theres 2 plugs in Starkville at a grocery store I could top off if necessary.    Not sure how fast they would charge though.  

I would only try it with the long-range battery...and then, depending on A/C or heat or seat warmers it could be close with the extra battery use.  It should be doable on full charge, with no other variables, and at only a few times per year it wouldn't kill the battery.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Someone help me with their real world experience.  I drive to Miss State a good bit for football and baseball games and what not.  Its almost always an up and back trip.  It totals right at 230 miles round trip.  

One your average day of decent weather, driving 65-70 mph, is the 264 mile range going to be plenty?

Seems dumb to even try on the 240 range model, but someone tell me if it can be done?  Theres 2 plugs in Starkville at a grocery store I could top off if necessary.    Not sure how fast they would charge though.  

Download the Plugshare app.

There are four Level 2 chargers in Starkville, but Plugshare check ins say the ones at Kroger have broken hardware and are inoperable. Two others at motels (likely for guests only), and there's one J-1772 at 200 Research Blvd (on campus.) If you had a Model S and that's 220V, you'll see at best 18-19mph, couple Model 3s have charged there and have seen 15-16mph. So def no bueno for road tripping but if were able to charge while you were at the game you could pick up 60+ miles. Bad news is it's a 1.5 mile walk to the stadium.

I took a Turo rental (Model X) to Newport for the weekend, and on Saturday we found a J-1772 that offered either free or super cheap parking for EVs. Worked out great because we were planning on walking around the waterfront and having a meal, so we parked for 6 hours and picked up a good 90 miles. That's really the only kind of scenario where Level 2 charging is handy - if you can park and charge while you're busy doing something else. Would be super painful otherwise.

QUICK PRIMER:

• Level 1 is a standard 110V AC outlet. Impractical if you live in a 4 season climate, but if you are in a 2 season climate and have a short commute, you can charge overnight and pick 3 to 5 mphs
  
• Level 2 is 220-240V outlet. Most public chargers are Level 2, and for 99% of EV owners, installed a 50 amp dryer plug will be more than sufficient. Let's say for simplicity you pick up 15 mph (you'll probably get a bit more). If you get home and plug in at 7pm, and leave the next day at 7am, voila, 180 mph from overnight charging. 
  
• Level 3 is DC fast charging. There are a limited number of Level 3 chargers in the USA right now. Like if you bought an I-Pace, you'll see huge gaps and road tripping will be impractical. But if you own a Tesla, there 622 Superchargers spread across the country. You can go virtually anywhere in the lower 48.
  

@jb1020 - in real world experience, you never use what the rated range is; even if you charge to 100% and leave immediately - Tesla recommends never "range charging" unless its in preparation for a trip - you don't want to run your battery down to 0%. It's thought that if keep it between 20-80% you will see less degradation to the battery. IDK where you are leaving from to get to Miss State but there are a few Superchargers spread around MS (Grenada, Jackson, Tupelo, et al.) Also, keep in mind rated range is just a theoretical number. You can get more than the rated range if you hyper mile (drive like grandma, draft behind semis, etc.) But you also might see 150-175 usable miles if you stomp on it all day and drive 80 mph on the intestate. If it's raining, expect to see a 15-20% drop. This isn't an issue in MS too often, but at low temps you will see much higher consumption and shorter range. A strong headwind can affect your range. In other words, there are many factors that go into range.

Nobody really talks about it but to me if you have a 240-250 rated range (say a Model S 75 or a Model X 90), in reality you have about 150-192 usable miles. Because after you start your trip, you are never going to charge past 90 (it's super slow getting that last 10% into the battery), and due to range anxiety and inexperience you won't feel comfortable going below 15-20%. After you do a lot of road trips you'll be more confident running it down to less than 30 miles of range left, but the first time you do that will be a panic attack lol. 

Lot of info in there, hope you followed along and it made some sense.

 

[jb1020]

Thanks guys. That all makes sense @BobbyLayne. MS is still behind on things.  For an extra $3000 I think its worth it for the piece of mind to go with the 325 range.  I don't travel a ton, but there are a lot of day trips around the state for work.  We make a couple of trips to the coast each year and theres only one SC in Mobile.  

You guys do have me looking at a used S vs a new 3, but I still like the look of the 3.  

 

[BobbyLayne]

Really the only thing better about the Model S over the 3 might be the cargo room. The S is a liftback and with the seats down you can fit around 8 banana boxes in there, versus 6 for the Model 3, which has a trunk instead of a hatchback (a YouTuber does these BB tests lol.) Oh, and in case you were wondering, the X will hold 10 banana boxes.

Personally I love the look of the S inside and out, and probably due mainly to relative familiarity, I just more comfortable with the 17 inch display facing the driver than the  15 inch center mount touchscreen of the Model 3. But I haven't driven the smaller Tesla; I'm sure it's easy to get used to the differences. I've read enough positive reviews from former Model S & Model X owners to realize my bias toward what I am used to is not what actual owners are experiencing/reporting.

 

[xulf]

Really the only thing better about the Model S over the 3 might be the cargo room. The S is a liftback and with the seats down you can fit around 8 banana boxes in there, versus 6 for the Model 3, which has a trunk instead of a hatchback (a YouTuber does these BB tests lol.) Oh, and in case you were wondering, the X will hold 10 banana boxes.

Personally I love the look of the S inside and out, and probably due mainly to relative familiarity, I just more comfortable with the 17 inch display facing the driver than the  15 inch center mount touchscreen of the Model 3. But I haven't driven the smaller Tesla; I'm sure it's easy to get used to the differences. I've read enough positive reviews from former Model S & Model X owners to realize my bias toward what I am used to is not what actual owners are experiencing/reporting.

I could see not liking some features of the 3 when you have had an S.  But, as someone that went from Hondas to the 3, the screen is great and I love all the features.

I will need to keep in mind the number of banana boxes I can store ... does that include the front trunk?  I am thinking of having a banana boat party in the coming months 

 

[culdeus]

What the #### is a banana box

 

[xulf]

What the #### is a banana box

http://www.thepanamadigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/banana-box-image_2443_st.jpg

 

[BobbyLayne]

I could see not liking some features of the 3 when you have had an S.  But, as someone that went from Hondas to the 3, the screen is great and I love all the features.

I will need to keep in mind the number of banana boxes I can store ... does that include the front trunk?  I am thinking of having a banana boat party in the coming months 

IIRC the "new frunk" (post fascia + HEPA filter) you cannot fit banana boxes up there anymore. It's tiny now.

With the original nose cone front you could put 1 up there, maybe even 2 when the old rear wheel drive cars had the cubby hole in the back of the frunk?

 

[BobbyLayne]

What the #### is a banana box

Bjørn Nyland is a Thai-Norwegian guy who has been driving Tesla's around Norway for 6+ years. He has made a bazillion videos about EVs.

 

[matttyl]

Really, really liking the idea of this new Model 3 as the next car in the Matttyl household - which could still be a year or two out (2 car household - small SUV that we need for kid/dogs/bikes/offroad stuff; and then a Mazda 3 with 100k+ miles on it that we'll drive into the ground).  Doing my homework, but really don't know where to start.  For others who have Tesla, how did you do your homework on the purchase?  What were your deciding factors?  Any regrets since?

Thinking it would be a great daily driver (my commute is ~10-15 miles each way, wife works from home) to keep miles off the gas using car, but we'd still have a solid backup.  Maybe I'm missing something, but $43k for a car that goes 0-60 in 5.2 seconds (premium mid-range), ~260 miles per charge (not all that much different than most small/mid sedans after a fill up), autopilot, not needing to spend $150 in gas a month (replaced by ~$35 in electricity), never needing to change oil or transmission fluid....and apparently should ~10 years down the road it need a whole new battery setup doesn't mean I have to get a whole new car (as I would if I needed a new engine in an internal combustion engine).  AND for a few $k more, at any point down the road I can make it pretty much fully autonomous?