Eli or Romo, who would you rather have now? (1 Viewer)

[Duk]

Eli was virtually mistake free during their hot streak, but his passing numbers (other than INT's) were merely average. Romo set team records this year.ROMO

PLEASE - can anybody look at Romo's numbers the past two years in December. Yes, that would be crunch timeThe only bright spot over the last 2 Decembers has been Detroit.

Lol I'm sure most of you guys would prefer Derek Jeter over Alex Rodriguez cuz he's "Mr. Clutch"Again never argued that Eli is a bad QB simply he is not consistent and you can't say 4 games means he is going to be elite or great. Yes he occasionally made big clutch drives prior to the playoffs this year..but so did freaking Jake Plummer.Eli was money in the playoffs this year. But you can't base a QB off of one playoff series...same goes for Brady, Peyton, Farve, Romo etc.If Eli comes out and is a Top 10 QB in the league next year and Top 3 in the NFC then you can honestly say that something "changed" after that Week 17 game. But if he goes back to the Eli of the past 3 years...people will wonder what the hell happened and why can't he play like he did in the playoffs last year.Based on the stats that are available. It is far more likely that he reverts back to form then he stays at the level he just recently showed.Eli has played 4 seasonsRomo has played 2Romo in just 2 years has a career QB rating of 95.5Eli's is 73.3 over 4 years and actually got worse in his 4th yearCareer Completion %Romo 64Eli 54Romo will be the better QB longterm ---- but Eli will play on the better team given the D's age and esp if they continue to be a run first team with Jacobs, Bradshaw, and Ward.

You wont judge Eli on the sample size of 4 playoff games - even though he had many other great, not good but great games over 3.5 years...but out of the other side of your mouth we are supposed to judge Romo off of a year and a half of games and 2 horrible Decembers and two choke filled playoff games.Stop it - you are embarrassing yourself

"choke filled" yeah right

 

[Godsbrother]

Easy choice for me: Eli. Romo has yet to win a playoff game.

However I would rather have Roethlisberger over either one.

 

[Banger]

Easy choice for me: Eli. Romo has yet to win a playoff game.However I would rather have Roethlisberger over either one.

Well Eli was 0-2 (same record as Romo) prior to this year so it's not as if Eli is some Brady-esque playoff winner. His team got hot and had a great run.

 

[benbadman]

For fantasy in 2008 I'd probably avoid targeting either, as they will be little value in drafting either. Romo will probably go in round 2-3 because of his career year in passing TDs (I think 25-28td is more likely from him) and Eli will probably go a few rounds later because of the SB win. I did ride Eli for a bit in some leagues with platoons, after drafting Eli as like QB16 as my QB1.

I think neither player has much upside to outperform their ADP, kinda like Carson Palmer or Bulger in 2007.

 

[Godsbrother]

Easy choice for me: Eli. Romo has yet to win a playoff game.However I would rather have Roethlisberger over either one.

Well Eli was 0-2 (same record as Romo) prior to this year so it's not as if Eli is some Brady-esque playoff winner. His team got hot and had a great run.

True. When Romo starts winning some playoff games then I might change my mind.

 

[Phurfur]

Easy choice for me: Eli. Romo has yet to win a playoff game.

However I would rather have Roethlisberger over either one.

Well Eli was 0-2 (same record as Romo) prior to this year so it's not as if Eli is some Brady-esque playoff winner. His team got hot and had a great run.

Eli was a big reason that team got hot. To me it looked like Eli turned the corner and moved to the next level of quarterbacking. Romo, while everyone conceded his team was MUCH better, has not progressed. He just completed his 5th season and has terrible time management skills under 2 minutes, is afraid to step up in the pocket, and loses his cool under pressure. IMO Romo has allot farther to go than Eli.

 

[Banger]

Easy choice for me: Eli. Romo has yet to win a playoff game.

However I would rather have Roethlisberger over either one.

Well Eli was 0-2 (same record as Romo) prior to this year so it's not as if Eli is some Brady-esque playoff winner. His team got hot and had a great run.

Eli was a big reason that team got hot. To me it looked like Eli turned the corner and moved to the next level of quarterbacking. Romo, while everyone conceded his team was MUCH better, has not progressed. He just completed his 5th season and has terrible time management skills under 2 minutes, is afraid to step up in the pocket, and loses his cool under pressure. IMO Romo has allot farther to go than Eli.

Eli played good smart football which he was allowed to do in large part because his defense kept the games close so they were able to have a balanced attack into the 4th quarter of every game. His line also did a great job blocking which gave him the time he needed. Look, I think Eli played great and I'm not trying to minimize his accomplishment because it was great. I'm happy for him and the Giants but at the end of the day it was a 5 game stretch where everything came together at the perfect time but I'm not going to throw out 52 prior games of ups and downs for a 5 game streak. Take a look at the 5 game stretch just prior to that in weeks 12-16....12 Min 21-49-273-1-4 33.8 rating (3 of the 4 picks were returned for td's)

13 @ Chi 16-27-195-1-2 63 rating

14 @ Phi 17-31-219-1-0 88 rating

15 Was 18-52-184-1-0 52.1 rating

16 @ Buf 7-15-111-0-2 32 rating

As far as Romo not showing improvement...last year they were 6-5 with him as a starter, this year, 13-3. His ypg, completions, td's/game all improved in his 2ND YEAR as a starter. Not further to go up as far as the regular season goes. He had 13 more TD's than Manning and almost 1000 yards more despite having an injured thumb over the last 3 games. Head to head Romo is 3-1 with the one loss being this year in the playoffs.

 

[Koya]

I wonder if anyone argued so hard for Trent Dilfer when he won a Super bowl like some are for Eli...so winning a superbowl and actually being a consistant QB for 3 games gets you crowned Denny Green style now? Im not trying to hate but really....too small and inconsistent a sample size for both guys to be ranking them as high as some folks are ranking them.

I thought the same thing, Dilfer won a super bowl and many may have said the Ravens won "in spite of" Dilfer. The same argument could be made for Eli, though not as strongly.Until this last streak of games by Eli, most Giants fans I know lived in the fear of "oh no! what is Eli going to do to screw this game up". This recent streak may be a sign that he is moving beyond the point of the QB who makes everyone cringe when he drops back to pass. That would be good for the league and the NYG's. Don't forget folks, just before Eli's "great escape"/helmet catch by Tyree, there was an ill-advised floating pass that was very close to being intercepted on the sidelines by the PATS.Don't get me wrong, I was rooting for Elisha, but let's not pretend he is flawless just because he won a super bowl! It obviously does not take a QB "great" to win a SB, see earlier Dilfer reference.

Again, Dilfer's situation is not AT ALL comparable to Eli's other than the winning the SB part.Dilfer was a caretaker. Eli was the best offensive player through the course of the playoffs.Dilfer had to just not lose the game, Eli had numerous KEY drives at PIVOTAL moments of the game (end of half against Dallas, two 80 yard + TD drives ending in TD passes in the 4th quarter to twice retake the lead against NE and others). Dilfer had a top 5 defense EVER behind him. Eli's D played fantastic, but it was not the Ravens.Dilfer had a run run run first offense. The Giants are a fairly balanced attack, and Eli did well even when the running game did not in the playoffs.Dilfer was a known commodity and Eli is still a young, growing QB.So stop with the Dilfer comparisons. They are not apt.

 

[Phurfur]

Easy choice for me: Eli. Romo has yet to win a playoff game.

However I would rather have Roethlisberger over either one.

Well Eli was 0-2 (same record as Romo) prior to this year so it's not as if Eli is some Brady-esque playoff winner. His team got hot and had a great run.

Eli was a big reason that team got hot. To me it looked like Eli turned the corner and moved to the next level of quarterbacking. Romo, while everyone conceded his team was MUCH better, has not progressed. He just completed his 5th season and has terrible time management skills under 2 minutes, is afraid to step up in the pocket, and loses his cool under pressure. IMO Romo has allot farther to go than Eli.

Eli played good smart football which he was allowed to do in large part because his defense kept the games close so they were able to have a balanced attack into the 4th quarter of every game. His line also did a great job blocking which gave him the time he needed. Look, I think Eli played great and I'm not trying to minimize his accomplishment because it was great. I'm happy for him and the Giants but at the end of the day it was a 5 game stretch where everything came together at the perfect time but I'm not going to throw out 52 prior games of ups and downs for a 5 game streak. Take a look at the 5 game stretch just prior to that in weeks 12-16....12 Min 21-49-273-1-4 33.8 rating (3 of the 4 picks were returned for td's)

13 @ Chi 16-27-195-1-2 63 rating

14 @ Phi 17-31-219-1-0 88 rating

15 Was 18-52-184-1-0 52.1 rating

16 @ Buf 7-15-111-0-2 32 rating

As far as Romo not showing improvement...last year they were 6-5 with him as a starter, this year, 13-3. His ypg, completions, td's/game all improved in his 2ND YEAR as a starter. Not further to go up as far as the regular season goes. He had 13 more TD's than Manning and almost 1000 yards more despite having an injured thumb over the last 3 games. Head to head Romo is 3-1 with the one loss being this year in the playoffs.

I think we are saying the same thing but from opposite sides. I can argue that Romo was a product of his team too. He played with 12 pro-bowlers and everyone conceded Dallas was the best team in the NFC. When I said Romo didn't improve I was saying he looked like the same QB he was last year ( the way he played the game) but Eli has shown marked improvement over the course of this season.

 

[Squinting Cyclops]

I wonder if anyone argued so hard for Trent Dilfer when he won a Super bowl like some are for Eli...so winning a superbowl and actually being a consistant QB for 3 games gets you crowned Denny Green style now? Im not trying to hate but really....too small and inconsistent a sample size for both guys to be ranking them as high as some folks are ranking them.

I thought the same thing, Dilfer won a super bowl and many may have said the Ravens won "in spite of" Dilfer. The same argument could be made for Eli, though not as strongly.Until this last streak of games by Eli, most Giants fans I know lived in the fear of "oh no! what is Eli going to do to screw this game up". This recent streak may be a sign that he is moving beyond the point of the QB who makes everyone cringe when he drops back to pass. That would be good for the league and the NYG's. Don't forget folks, just before Eli's "great escape"/helmet catch by Tyree, there was an ill-advised floating pass that was very close to being intercepted on the sidelines by the PATS.Don't get me wrong, I was rooting for Elisha, but let's not pretend he is flawless just because he won a super bowl! It obviously does not take a QB "great" to win a SB, see earlier Dilfer reference.

Again, Dilfer's situation is not AT ALL comparable to Eli's other than the winning the SB part.Dilfer was a caretaker. Eli was the best offensive player through the course of the playoffs.Dilfer had to just not lose the game, Eli had numerous KEY drives at PIVOTAL moments of the game (end of half against Dallas, two 80 yard + TD drives ending in TD passes in the 4th quarter to twice retake the lead against NE and others). Dilfer had a top 5 defense EVER behind him. Eli's D played fantastic, but it was not the Ravens.Dilfer had a run run run first offense. The Giants are a fairly balanced attack, and Eli did well even when the running game did not in the playoffs.Dilfer was a known commodity and Eli is still a young, growing QB.So stop with the Dilfer comparisons. They are not apt.

I agree that Eli > Dilfer. But Eli may have just graduated to the Romo tier, but has certainly not passed him yet. Let's see if Eli's passer rating can crack 90 next year.....Eli-lovers are suffering from "recency" effect, they can only remember what happened yesterday, not 2 yesterdays ago. The real key is tomorrow, in which I believe Romo will continue to put up better numbers and win a higher percentage of games than Eli as he has career to date.

 

[Koya]

I wonder if anyone argued so hard for Trent Dilfer when he won a Super bowl like some are for Eli...so winning a superbowl and actually being a consistant QB for 3 games gets you crowned Denny Green style now? Im not trying to hate but really....too small and inconsistent a sample size for both guys to be ranking them as high as some folks are ranking them.

I thought the same thing, Dilfer won a super bowl and many may have said the Ravens won "in spite of" Dilfer. The same argument could be made for Eli, though not as strongly.Until this last streak of games by Eli, most Giants fans I know lived in the fear of "oh no! what is Eli going to do to screw this game up". This recent streak may be a sign that he is moving beyond the point of the QB who makes everyone cringe when he drops back to pass. That would be good for the league and the NYG's. Don't forget folks, just before Eli's "great escape"/helmet catch by Tyree, there was an ill-advised floating pass that was very close to being intercepted on the sidelines by the PATS.Don't get me wrong, I was rooting for Elisha, but let's not pretend he is flawless just because he won a super bowl! It obviously does not take a QB "great" to win a SB, see earlier Dilfer reference.

Again, Dilfer's situation is not AT ALL comparable to Eli's other than the winning the SB part.Dilfer was a caretaker. Eli was the best offensive player through the course of the playoffs.Dilfer had to just not lose the game, Eli had numerous KEY drives at PIVOTAL moments of the game (end of half against Dallas, two 80 yard + TD drives ending in TD passes in the 4th quarter to twice retake the lead against NE and others). Dilfer had a top 5 defense EVER behind him. Eli's D played fantastic, but it was not the Ravens.Dilfer had a run run run first offense. The Giants are a fairly balanced attack, and Eli did well even when the running game did not in the playoffs.Dilfer was a known commodity and Eli is still a young, growing QB.So stop with the Dilfer comparisons. They are not apt.

I agree that Eli > Dilfer. But Eli may have just graduated to the Romo tier, but has certainly not passed him yet. Let's see if Eli's passer rating can crack 90 next year.....Eli-lovers are suffering from "recency" effect, they can only remember what happened yesterday, not 2 yesterdays ago. The real key is tomorrow, in which I believe Romo will continue to put up better numbers and win a higher percentage of games than Eli as he has career to date.

If better QB meant better numbers I would agree with you.As of right now, I think Romo and Eli are very close, but also very different. Romo will put up better numbers but as of right now, it is hard to argue against Eli being the more clutch of the two - not just because of this past month (and while it is a small sample size, it is still somewhat significant. You don't luck into 4 consecutive good to great weeks on the way to a SB against three of the leagues best defenses along the way) but also because of Eli's comebacks throughout his first three seasons starting at QB.Again, I can certainly see someone taking Romo, but Eli has PROVEN he can handle the pressure and actually win it all. Romo might have it in him, but we have yet to see him win a playoff game, not to say a NFC championship, not to say the SB. To dismiss the fact that Eli actually DID this is foolish imo.

 

[Franchise Playa]

I wonder if anyone argued so hard for Trent Dilfer when he won a Super bowl like some are for Eli...so winning a superbowl and actually being a consistant QB for 3 games gets you crowned Denny Green style now? Im not trying to hate but really....too small and inconsistent a sample size for both guys to be ranking them as high as some folks are ranking them.

I thought the same thing, Dilfer won a super bowl and many may have said the Ravens won "in spite of" Dilfer. The same argument could be made for Eli, though not as strongly.Until this last streak of games by Eli, most Giants fans I know lived in the fear of "oh no! what is Eli going to do to screw this game up". This recent streak may be a sign that he is moving beyond the point of the QB who makes everyone cringe when he drops back to pass. That would be good for the league and the NYG's. Don't forget folks, just before Eli's "great escape"/helmet catch by Tyree, there was an ill-advised floating pass that was very close to being intercepted on the sidelines by the PATS.Don't get me wrong, I was rooting for Elisha, but let's not pretend he is flawless just because he won a super bowl! It obviously does not take a QB "great" to win a SB, see earlier Dilfer reference.

Again, Dilfer's situation is not AT ALL comparable to Eli's other than the winning the SB part.Dilfer was a caretaker. Eli was the best offensive player through the course of the playoffs.Dilfer had to just not lose the game, Eli had numerous KEY drives at PIVOTAL moments of the game (end of half against Dallas, two 80 yard + TD drives ending in TD passes in the 4th quarter to twice retake the lead against NE and others). Dilfer had a top 5 defense EVER behind him. Eli's D played fantastic, but it was not the Ravens.Dilfer had a run run run first offense. The Giants are a fairly balanced attack, and Eli did well even when the running game did not in the playoffs.Dilfer was a known commodity and Eli is still a young, growing QB.So stop with the Dilfer comparisons. They are not apt.

I agree that Eli > Dilfer. But Eli may have just graduated to the Romo tier, but has certainly not passed him yet. Let's see if Eli's passer rating can crack 90 next year.....Eli-lovers are suffering from "recency" effect, they can only remember what happened yesterday, not 2 yesterdays ago. The real key is tomorrow, in which I believe Romo will continue to put up better numbers and win a higher percentage of games than Eli as he has career to date.

If better QB meant better numbers I would agree with you.As of right now, I think Romo and Eli are very close, but also very different. Romo will put up better numbers but as of right now, it is hard to argue against Eli being the more clutch of the two - not just because of this past month (and while it is a small sample size, it is still somewhat significant. You don't luck into 4 consecutive good to great weeks on the way to a SB against three of the leagues best defenses along the way) but also because of Eli's comebacks throughout his first three seasons starting at QB.Again, I can certainly see someone taking Romo, but Eli has PROVEN he can handle the pressure and actually win it all. Romo might have it in him, but we have yet to see him win a playoff game, not to say a NFC championship, not to say the SB. To dismiss the fact that Eli actually DID this is foolish imo.

He proved from 3 playoff games that he could play well...he did NOT play well in the SB...he threw many questionable passes that should have been picked off. On the last drive alone he was saved only by escaping a rush/completion to Tyree and completing a pass to a wide open Plax after the defender fell down. That drive showed more good fortune than about Eli methodically driving his team down the field. You want to give him a majority of the SB credit that is fine...but I personally saw a QB get some good bounces and he made the most of it. You call it clutch I call it good fortune...cause when the chips were down he played like the Eli most of us saw during the regular season...inconsistant. The difference is the bounces went his way.

 

[horadadude]

I wonder if anyone argued so hard for Trent Dilfer when he won a Super bowl like some are for Eli...so winning a superbowl and actually being a consistant QB for 3 games gets you crowned Denny Green style now? Im not trying to hate but really....too small and inconsistent a sample size for both guys to be ranking them as high as some folks are ranking them.

I thought the same thing, Dilfer won a super bowl and many may have said the Ravens won "in spite of" Dilfer. The same argument could be made for Eli, though not as strongly.Until this last streak of games by Eli, most Giants fans I know lived in the fear of "oh no! what is Eli going to do to screw this game up". This recent streak may be a sign that he is moving beyond the point of the QB who makes everyone cringe when he drops back to pass. That would be good for the league and the NYG's. Don't forget folks, just before Eli's "great escape"/helmet catch by Tyree, there was an ill-advised floating pass that was very close to being intercepted on the sidelines by the PATS.Don't get me wrong, I was rooting for Elisha, but let's not pretend he is flawless just because he won a super bowl! It obviously does not take a QB "great" to win a SB, see earlier Dilfer reference.

Again, Dilfer's situation is not AT ALL comparable to Eli's other than the winning the SB part.Dilfer was a caretaker. Eli was the best offensive player through the course of the playoffs.Dilfer had to just not lose the game, Eli had numerous KEY drives at PIVOTAL moments of the game (end of half against Dallas, two 80 yard + TD drives ending in TD passes in the 4th quarter to twice retake the lead against NE and others). Dilfer had a top 5 defense EVER behind him. Eli's D played fantastic, but it was not the Ravens.Dilfer had a run run run first offense. The Giants are a fairly balanced attack, and Eli did well even when the running game did not in the playoffs.Dilfer was a known commodity and Eli is still a young, growing QB.So stop with the Dilfer comparisons. They are not apt.

I agree that Eli > Dilfer. But Eli may have just graduated to the Romo tier, but has certainly not passed him yet. Let's see if Eli's passer rating can crack 90 next year.....Eli-lovers are suffering from "recency" effect, they can only remember what happened yesterday, not 2 yesterdays ago. The real key is tomorrow, in which I believe Romo will continue to put up better numbers and win a higher percentage of games than Eli as he has career to date.

If better QB meant better numbers I would agree with you.As of right now, I think Romo and Eli are very close, but also very different. Romo will put up better numbers but as of right now, it is hard to argue against Eli being the more clutch of the two - not just because of this past month (and while it is a small sample size, it is still somewhat significant. You don't luck into 4 consecutive good to great weeks on the way to a SB against three of the leagues best defenses along the way) but also because of Eli's comebacks throughout his first three seasons starting at QB.Again, I can certainly see someone taking Romo, but Eli has PROVEN he can handle the pressure and actually win it all. Romo might have it in him, but we have yet to see him win a playoff game, not to say a NFC championship, not to say the SB. To dismiss the fact that Eli actually DID this is foolish imo.

He proved from 3 playoff games that he could play well...he did NOT play well in the SB...he threw many questionable passes that should have been picked off. On the last drive alone he was saved only by escaping a rush/completion to Tyree and completing a pass to a wide open Plax after the defender fell down. That drive showed more good fortune than about Eli methodically driving his team down the field. You want to give him a majority of the SB credit that is fine...but I personally saw a QB get some good bounces and he made the most of it. You call it clutch I call it good fortune...cause when the chips were down he played like the Eli most of us saw during the regular season...inconsistant. The difference is the bounces went his way.

Eli did not play well in the Superbowl? Hobbs fell down? I think the drinks were kicking in for you at that moment. Hobbs was beat ....pretty badly....Eli made a fabulous throw in an all out blitz. He was the superbowl MVP for petes sake

 

[horadadude]

Eli was virtually mistake free during their hot streak, but his passing numbers (other than INT's) were merely average. Romo set team records this year.ROMO

PLEASE - can anybody look at Romo's numbers the past two years in December. Yes, that would be crunch timeThe only bright spot over the last 2 Decembers has been Detroit.

Lol I'm sure most of you guys would prefer Derek Jeter over Alex Rodriguez cuz he's "Mr. Clutch"Again never argued that Eli is a bad QB simply he is not consistent and you can't say 4 games means he is going to be elite or great. Yes he occasionally made big clutch drives prior to the playoffs this year..but so did freaking Jake Plummer.Eli was money in the playoffs this year. But you can't base a QB off of one playoff series...same goes for Brady, Peyton, Farve, Romo etc.If Eli comes out and is a Top 10 QB in the league next year and Top 3 in the NFC then you can honestly say that something "changed" after that Week 17 game. But if he goes back to the Eli of the past 3 years...people will wonder what the hell happened and why can't he play like he did in the playoffs last year.Based on the stats that are available. It is far more likely that he reverts back to form then he stays at the level he just recently showed.Eli has played 4 seasonsRomo has played 2Romo in just 2 years has a career QB rating of 95.5Eli's is 73.3 over 4 years and actually got worse in his 4th yearCareer Completion %Romo 64Eli 54Romo will be the better QB longterm ---- but Eli will play on the better team given the D's age and esp if they continue to be a run first team with Jacobs, Bradshaw, and Ward.

You wont judge Eli on the sample size of 4 playoff games - even though he had many other great, not good but great games over 3.5 years...but out of the other side of your mouth we are supposed to judge Romo off of a year and a half of games and 2 horrible Decembers and two choke filled playoff games.Stop it - you are embarrassing yourself

"choke filled" yeah right

Yes Romo with Choke filled fits right together. Drop a snap in the playoffs? I mean come on. And then throw an interception to RW McQuarters to end the other game. And did you look up Romo's December stats - pretty frightening

 

[Banger]

Easy choice for me: Eli. Romo has yet to win a playoff game.

However I would rather have Roethlisberger over either one.

Well Eli was 0-2 (same record as Romo) prior to this year so it's not as if Eli is some Brady-esque playoff winner. His team got hot and had a great run.

Eli was a big reason that team got hot. To me it looked like Eli turned the corner and moved to the next level of quarterbacking. Romo, while everyone conceded his team was MUCH better, has not progressed. He just completed his 5th season and has terrible time management skills under 2 minutes, is afraid to step up in the pocket, and loses his cool under pressure. IMO Romo has allot farther to go than Eli.

Eli played good smart football which he was allowed to do in large part because his defense kept the games close so they were able to have a balanced attack into the 4th quarter of every game. His line also did a great job blocking which gave him the time he needed. Look, I think Eli played great and I'm not trying to minimize his accomplishment because it was great. I'm happy for him and the Giants but at the end of the day it was a 5 game stretch where everything came together at the perfect time but I'm not going to throw out 52 prior games of ups and downs for a 5 game streak. Take a look at the 5 game stretch just prior to that in weeks 12-16....12 Min 21-49-273-1-4 33.8 rating (3 of the 4 picks were returned for td's)

13 @ Chi 16-27-195-1-2 63 rating

14 @ Phi 17-31-219-1-0 88 rating

15 Was 18-52-184-1-0 52.1 rating

16 @ Buf 7-15-111-0-2 32 rating

As far as Romo not showing improvement...last year they were 6-5 with him as a starter, this year, 13-3. His ypg, completions, td's/game all improved in his 2ND YEAR as a starter. Not further to go up as far as the regular season goes. He had 13 more TD's than Manning and almost 1000 yards more despite having an injured thumb over the last 3 games. Head to head Romo is 3-1 with the one loss being this year in the playoffs.

I think we are saying the same thing but from opposite sides. I can argue that Romo was a product of his team too. He played with 12 pro-bowlers and everyone conceded Dallas was the best team in the NFC. When I said Romo didn't improve I was saying he looked like the same QB he was last year ( the way he played the game) but Eli has shown marked improvement over the course of this season.

no he really didn't. They were killing him right up until the Pat game week 17 because he was playing horribly. Manning's '06/'07

2006 NYG 16 301 522 3244 6.2 24 18

2007 NYG 16 297 529 3336 6.3 23 20

His year's were almost identical.

 

[Koya]

I wonder if anyone argued so hard for Trent Dilfer when he won a Super bowl like some are for Eli...so winning a superbowl and actually being a consistant QB for 3 games gets you crowned Denny Green style now? Im not trying to hate but really....too small and inconsistent a sample size for both guys to be ranking them as high as some folks are ranking them.

I thought the same thing, Dilfer won a super bowl and many may have said the Ravens won "in spite of" Dilfer. The same argument could be made for Eli, though not as strongly.Until this last streak of games by Eli, most Giants fans I know lived in the fear of "oh no! what is Eli going to do to screw this game up". This recent streak may be a sign that he is moving beyond the point of the QB who makes everyone cringe when he drops back to pass. That would be good for the league and the NYG's. Don't forget folks, just before Eli's "great escape"/helmet catch by Tyree, there was an ill-advised floating pass that was very close to being intercepted on the sidelines by the PATS.Don't get me wrong, I was rooting for Elisha, but let's not pretend he is flawless just because he won a super bowl! It obviously does not take a QB "great" to win a SB, see earlier Dilfer reference.

Again, Dilfer's situation is not AT ALL comparable to Eli's other than the winning the SB part.Dilfer was a caretaker. Eli was the best offensive player through the course of the playoffs.Dilfer had to just not lose the game, Eli had numerous KEY drives at PIVOTAL moments of the game (end of half against Dallas, two 80 yard + TD drives ending in TD passes in the 4th quarter to twice retake the lead against NE and others). Dilfer had a top 5 defense EVER behind him. Eli's D played fantastic, but it was not the Ravens.Dilfer had a run run run first offense. The Giants are a fairly balanced attack, and Eli did well even when the running game did not in the playoffs.Dilfer was a known commodity and Eli is still a young, growing QB.So stop with the Dilfer comparisons. They are not apt.

I agree that Eli > Dilfer. But Eli may have just graduated to the Romo tier, but has certainly not passed him yet. Let's see if Eli's passer rating can crack 90 next year.....Eli-lovers are suffering from "recency" effect, they can only remember what happened yesterday, not 2 yesterdays ago. The real key is tomorrow, in which I believe Romo will continue to put up better numbers and win a higher percentage of games than Eli as he has career to date.

If better QB meant better numbers I would agree with you.As of right now, I think Romo and Eli are very close, but also very different. Romo will put up better numbers but as of right now, it is hard to argue against Eli being the more clutch of the two - not just because of this past month (and while it is a small sample size, it is still somewhat significant. You don't luck into 4 consecutive good to great weeks on the way to a SB against three of the leagues best defenses along the way) but also because of Eli's comebacks throughout his first three seasons starting at QB.Again, I can certainly see someone taking Romo, but Eli has PROVEN he can handle the pressure and actually win it all. Romo might have it in him, but we have yet to see him win a playoff game, not to say a NFC championship, not to say the SB. To dismiss the fact that Eli actually DID this is foolish imo.

He proved from 3 playoff games that he could play well...he did NOT play well in the SB...he threw many questionable passes that should have been picked off. On the last drive alone he was saved only by escaping a rush/completion to Tyree and completing a pass to a wide open Plax after the defender fell down. That drive showed more good fortune than about Eli methodically driving his team down the field. You want to give him a majority of the SB credit that is fine...but I personally saw a QB get some good bounces and he made the most of it. You call it clutch I call it good fortune...cause when the chips were down he played like the Eli most of us saw during the regular season...inconsistant. The difference is the bounces went his way.

Eli did not play well in the Superbowl? Hobbs fell down? I think the drinks were kicking in for you at that moment. Hobbs was beat ....pretty badly....Eli made a fabulous throw in an all out blitz. He was the superbowl MVP for petes sake

Im not sure if it's Eli hate, or just getting over his history of inconsistent play. He outplayed Brady... not that Brady played great mind you.Did he get a couple good breaks? Of course. Do did Brady on his terribly underthrown passes that could easily have been picked off. Of course, Eli got bad breaks too, like an INT that was ALL Steve Smiths fault.People seem to forget/ignore the numerous times Eli got the ball to a receiver in such a small window... for first downs, for huge plays (kevin boss... perfect pass), for TDs (Tyrees TD was a fantastic pass with no room for error). I don't fully get it to be honest but I guess when a player gets detractors its nearly impossible to have them look objectively at the player.Big Ben has his haters, teams certainly have theirs and we know Eli has his share.

 

[Duk]

Eli was virtually mistake free during their hot streak, but his passing numbers (other than INT's) were merely average. Romo set team records this year.ROMO

PLEASE - can anybody look at Romo's numbers the past two years in December. Yes, that would be crunch timeThe only bright spot over the last 2 Decembers has been Detroit.

Lol I'm sure most of you guys would prefer Derek Jeter over Alex Rodriguez cuz he's "Mr. Clutch"Again never argued that Eli is a bad QB simply he is not consistent and you can't say 4 games means he is going to be elite or great. Yes he occasionally made big clutch drives prior to the playoffs this year..but so did freaking Jake Plummer.Eli was money in the playoffs this year. But you can't base a QB off of one playoff series...same goes for Brady, Peyton, Farve, Romo etc.If Eli comes out and is a Top 10 QB in the league next year and Top 3 in the NFC then you can honestly say that something "changed" after that Week 17 game. But if he goes back to the Eli of the past 3 years...people will wonder what the hell happened and why can't he play like he did in the playoffs last year.Based on the stats that are available. It is far more likely that he reverts back to form then he stays at the level he just recently showed.Eli has played 4 seasonsRomo has played 2Romo in just 2 years has a career QB rating of 95.5Eli's is 73.3 over 4 years and actually got worse in his 4th yearCareer Completion %Romo 64Eli 54Romo will be the better QB longterm ---- but Eli will play on the better team given the D's age and esp if they continue to be a run first team with Jacobs, Bradshaw, and Ward.

You wont judge Eli on the sample size of 4 playoff games - even though he had many other great, not good but great games over 3.5 years...but out of the other side of your mouth we are supposed to judge Romo off of a year and a half of games and 2 horrible Decembers and two choke filled playoff games.Stop it - you are embarrassing yourself

"choke filled" yeah right

Yes Romo with Choke filled fits right together. Drop a snap in the playoffs? I mean come on. And then throw an interception to RW McQuarters to end the other game. And did you look up Romo's December stats - pretty frightening

you act like he dropped a snap as the QB. He was holding for a freakin kick! and the interception was just a desperation throw kind of like Eli's to Tyree just one got lucky and the other didnt

 

[Koya]

Eli was virtually mistake free during their hot streak, but his passing numbers (other than INT's) were merely average. Romo set team records this year.ROMO

PLEASE - can anybody look at Romo's numbers the past two years in December. Yes, that would be crunch timeThe only bright spot over the last 2 Decembers has been Detroit.

Lol I'm sure most of you guys would prefer Derek Jeter over Alex Rodriguez cuz he's "Mr. Clutch"Again never argued that Eli is a bad QB simply he is not consistent and you can't say 4 games means he is going to be elite or great. Yes he occasionally made big clutch drives prior to the playoffs this year..but so did freaking Jake Plummer.Eli was money in the playoffs this year. But you can't base a QB off of one playoff series...same goes for Brady, Peyton, Farve, Romo etc.If Eli comes out and is a Top 10 QB in the league next year and Top 3 in the NFC then you can honestly say that something "changed" after that Week 17 game. But if he goes back to the Eli of the past 3 years...people will wonder what the hell happened and why can't he play like he did in the playoffs last year.Based on the stats that are available. It is far more likely that he reverts back to form then he stays at the level he just recently showed.Eli has played 4 seasonsRomo has played 2Romo in just 2 years has a career QB rating of 95.5Eli's is 73.3 over 4 years and actually got worse in his 4th yearCareer Completion %Romo 64Eli 54Romo will be the better QB longterm ---- but Eli will play on the better team given the D's age and esp if they continue to be a run first team with Jacobs, Bradshaw, and Ward.

You wont judge Eli on the sample size of 4 playoff games - even though he had many other great, not good but great games over 3.5 years...but out of the other side of your mouth we are supposed to judge Romo off of a year and a half of games and 2 horrible Decembers and two choke filled playoff games.Stop it - you are embarrassing yourself

"choke filled" yeah right

Yes Romo with Choke filled fits right together. Drop a snap in the playoffs? I mean come on. And then throw an interception to RW McQuarters to end the other game. And did you look up Romo's December stats - pretty frightening

you act like he dropped a snap as the QB. He was holding for a freakin kick! and the interception was just a desperation throw kind of like Eli's to Tyree just one got lucky and the other didnt

Man, its tough to have discussions when people won't admit the actual facts.First, I don't believe Romo choked in the playoffs - but he could not make a play when needed this year against the Giants, and Qb or holder, it was somewhat of a choke to miss that snap and cost his team the game, although he recovered quite well this season.That said, Eli's pass to Tyree was a thing of beauty. Eli escaped ridiculous pressure then had enough mind to back up a bit... he then spotted a receiver who was SINGLE COVERED and threw a PERFECT pass BEFORE the 2-3 surrounding additional defenders could get there. While it was a jump ball, it was a jump ball to a WR that had only one defender on him at the time and had position. That was far from luck and it is disingenuous to say that it was only luck (although there was certiainly some luck that Tyree could hold onto the ball the way he did - but Manning did everything a QB could be asked to do, and a whole lot more on that play... Mannings part was not at all luck on that play)

 

[Squinting Cyclops]

I wonder if anyone argued so hard for Trent Dilfer when he won a Super bowl like some are for Eli...so winning a superbowl and actually being a consistant QB for 3 games gets you crowned Denny Green style now? Im not trying to hate but really....too small and inconsistent a sample size for both guys to be ranking them as high as some folks are ranking them.

I thought the same thing, Dilfer won a super bowl and many may have said the Ravens won "in spite of" Dilfer. The same argument could be made for Eli, though not as strongly.Until this last streak of games by Eli, most Giants fans I know lived in the fear of "oh no! what is Eli going to do to screw this game up". This recent streak may be a sign that he is moving beyond the point of the QB who makes everyone cringe when he drops back to pass. That would be good for the league and the NYG's. Don't forget folks, just before Eli's "great escape"/helmet catch by Tyree, there was an ill-advised floating pass that was very close to being intercepted on the sidelines by the PATS.Don't get me wrong, I was rooting for Elisha, but let's not pretend he is flawless just because he won a super bowl! It obviously does not take a QB "great" to win a SB, see earlier Dilfer reference.

Again, Dilfer's situation is not AT ALL comparable to Eli's other than the winning the SB part.Dilfer was a caretaker. Eli was the best offensive player through the course of the playoffs.Dilfer had to just not lose the game, Eli had numerous KEY drives at PIVOTAL moments of the game (end of half against Dallas, two 80 yard + TD drives ending in TD passes in the 4th quarter to twice retake the lead against NE and others). Dilfer had a top 5 defense EVER behind him. Eli's D played fantastic, but it was not the Ravens.Dilfer had a run run run first offense. The Giants are a fairly balanced attack, and Eli did well even when the running game did not in the playoffs.Dilfer was a known commodity and Eli is still a young, growing QB.So stop with the Dilfer comparisons. They are not apt.

I agree that Eli > Dilfer. But Eli may have just graduated to the Romo tier, but has certainly not passed him yet. Let's see if Eli's passer rating can crack 90 next year.....Eli-lovers are suffering from "recency" effect, they can only remember what happened yesterday, not 2 yesterdays ago. The real key is tomorrow, in which I believe Romo will continue to put up better numbers and win a higher percentage of games than Eli as he has career to date.

If better QB meant better numbers I would agree with you.As of right now, I think Romo and Eli are very close, but also very different. Romo will put up better numbers but as of right now, it is hard to argue against Eli being the more clutch of the two - not just because of this past month (and while it is a small sample size, it is still somewhat significant. You don't luck into 4 consecutive good to great weeks on the way to a SB against three of the leagues best defenses along the way) but also because of Eli's comebacks throughout his first three seasons starting at QB.Again, I can certainly see someone taking Romo, but Eli has PROVEN he can handle the pressure and actually win it all. Romo might have it in him, but we have yet to see him win a playoff game, not to say a NFC championship, not to say the SB. To dismiss the fact that Eli actually DID this is foolish imo.

For the most part I can agree with you, but if being a better QB is not measured by numbers, then what is it measured by, letters??? haircuts??? The recency effect still applies here, Eli overperformed his previous baseline considerably during that playoff stretch, his baseline was about what any mediocre QB's baseline would be. However, Romo's performance baseline is much higher and he underperfomed at the end of the season the past 2 years. Though in my opinion, the underperforming Romo was NOT the downfall of the Cowboys vs. the NYG's in the playoffs this year. Romo has consistenly played at a higher level than Eli, of course I am using "numbers" here. The only this I can think of that Eli has bested Romo on is that this year Eli FINALLY won a playoff game and now has won the super bowl. I would rather have Romo.

 

[Franchise Playa]

I wonder if anyone argued so hard for Trent Dilfer when he won a Super bowl like some are for Eli...so winning a superbowl and actually being a consistant QB for 3 games gets you crowned Denny Green style now? Im not trying to hate but really....too small and inconsistent a sample size for both guys to be ranking them as high as some folks are ranking them.

I thought the same thing, Dilfer won a super bowl and many may have said the Ravens won "in spite of" Dilfer. The same argument could be made for Eli, though not as strongly.Until this last streak of games by Eli, most Giants fans I know lived in the fear of "oh no! what is Eli going to do to screw this game up". This recent streak may be a sign that he is moving beyond the point of the QB who makes everyone cringe when he drops back to pass. That would be good for the league and the NYG's. Don't forget folks, just before Eli's "great escape"/helmet catch by Tyree, there was an ill-advised floating pass that was very close to being intercepted on the sidelines by the PATS.Don't get me wrong, I was rooting for Elisha, but let's not pretend he is flawless just because he won a super bowl! It obviously does not take a QB "great" to win a SB, see earlier Dilfer reference.

Again, Dilfer's situation is not AT ALL comparable to Eli's other than the winning the SB part.Dilfer was a caretaker. Eli was the best offensive player through the course of the playoffs.Dilfer had to just not lose the game, Eli had numerous KEY drives at PIVOTAL moments of the game (end of half against Dallas, two 80 yard + TD drives ending in TD passes in the 4th quarter to twice retake the lead against NE and others). Dilfer had a top 5 defense EVER behind him. Eli's D played fantastic, but it was not the Ravens.Dilfer had a run run run first offense. The Giants are a fairly balanced attack, and Eli did well even when the running game did not in the playoffs.Dilfer was a known commodity and Eli is still a young, growing QB.So stop with the Dilfer comparisons. They are not apt.

I agree that Eli > Dilfer. But Eli may have just graduated to the Romo tier, but has certainly not passed him yet. Let's see if Eli's passer rating can crack 90 next year.....Eli-lovers are suffering from "recency" effect, they can only remember what happened yesterday, not 2 yesterdays ago. The real key is tomorrow, in which I believe Romo will continue to put up better numbers and win a higher percentage of games than Eli as he has career to date.

If better QB meant better numbers I would agree with you.As of right now, I think Romo and Eli are very close, but also very different. Romo will put up better numbers but as of right now, it is hard to argue against Eli being the more clutch of the two - not just because of this past month (and while it is a small sample size, it is still somewhat significant. You don't luck into 4 consecutive good to great weeks on the way to a SB against three of the leagues best defenses along the way) but also because of Eli's comebacks throughout his first three seasons starting at QB.Again, I can certainly see someone taking Romo, but Eli has PROVEN he can handle the pressure and actually win it all. Romo might have it in him, but we have yet to see him win a playoff game, not to say a NFC championship, not to say the SB. To dismiss the fact that Eli actually DID this is foolish imo.

He proved from 3 playoff games that he could play well...he did NOT play well in the SB...he threw many questionable passes that should have been picked off. On the last drive alone he was saved only by escaping a rush/completion to Tyree and completing a pass to a wide open Plax after the defender fell down. That drive showed more good fortune than about Eli methodically driving his team down the field. You want to give him a majority of the SB credit that is fine...but I personally saw a QB get some good bounces and he made the most of it. You call it clutch I call it good fortune...cause when the chips were down he played like the Eli most of us saw during the regular season...inconsistant. The difference is the bounces went his way.

Eli did not play well in the Superbowl? Hobbs fell down? I think the drinks were kicking in for you at that moment. Hobbs was beat ....pretty badly....Eli made a fabulous throw in an all out blitz. He was the superbowl MVP for petes sake

I was wrong about Hobbs falling when I first saw the play I thought he stumbled. And yes he was beaten.

 

[Phurfur]

I wonder if anyone argued so hard for Trent Dilfer when he won a Super bowl like some are for Eli...so winning a superbowl and actually being a consistant QB for 3 games gets you crowned Denny Green style now? Im not trying to hate but really....too small and inconsistent a sample size for both guys to be ranking them as high as some folks are ranking them.

I thought the same thing, Dilfer won a super bowl and many may have said the Ravens won "in spite of" Dilfer. The same argument could be made for Eli, though not as strongly.Until this last streak of games by Eli, most Giants fans I know lived in the fear of "oh no! what is Eli going to do to screw this game up". This recent streak may be a sign that he is moving beyond the point of the QB who makes everyone cringe when he drops back to pass. That would be good for the league and the NYG's. Don't forget folks, just before Eli's "great escape"/helmet catch by Tyree, there was an ill-advised floating pass that was very close to being intercepted on the sidelines by the PATS.Don't get me wrong, I was rooting for Elisha, but let's not pretend he is flawless just because he won a super bowl! It obviously does not take a QB "great" to win a SB, see earlier Dilfer reference.

Again, Dilfer's situation is not AT ALL comparable to Eli's other than the winning the SB part.Dilfer was a caretaker. Eli was the best offensive player through the course of the playoffs.Dilfer had to just not lose the game, Eli had numerous KEY drives at PIVOTAL moments of the game (end of half against Dallas, two 80 yard + TD drives ending in TD passes in the 4th quarter to twice retake the lead against NE and others). Dilfer had a top 5 defense EVER behind him. Eli's D played fantastic, but it was not the Ravens.Dilfer had a run run run first offense. The Giants are a fairly balanced attack, and Eli did well even when the running game did not in the playoffs.Dilfer was a known commodity and Eli is still a young, growing QB.So stop with the Dilfer comparisons. They are not apt.

I agree that Eli > Dilfer. But Eli may have just graduated to the Romo tier, but has certainly not passed him yet. Let's see if Eli's passer rating can crack 90 next year.....Eli-lovers are suffering from "recency" effect, they can only remember what happened yesterday, not 2 yesterdays ago. The real key is tomorrow, in which I believe Romo will continue to put up better numbers and win a higher percentage of games than Eli as he has career to date.

If better QB meant better numbers I would agree with you.As of right now, I think Romo and Eli are very close, but also very different. Romo will put up better numbers but as of right now, it is hard to argue against Eli being the more clutch of the two - not just because of this past month (and while it is a small sample size, it is still somewhat significant. You don't luck into 4 consecutive good to great weeks on the way to a SB against three of the leagues best defenses along the way) but also because of Eli's comebacks throughout his first three seasons starting at QB.Again, I can certainly see someone taking Romo, but Eli has PROVEN he can handle the pressure and actually win it all. Romo might have it in him, but we have yet to see him win a playoff game, not to say a NFC championship, not to say the SB. To dismiss the fact that Eli actually DID this is foolish imo.

He proved from 3 playoff games that he could play well...he did NOT play well in the SB...he threw many questionable passes that should have been picked off. On the last drive alone he was saved only by escaping a rush/completion to Tyree and completing a pass to a wide open Plax after the defender fell down. That drive showed more good fortune than about Eli methodically driving his team down the field. You want to give him a majority of the SB credit that is fine...but I personally saw a QB get some good bounces and he made the most of it. You call it clutch I call it good fortune...cause when the chips were down he played like the Eli most of us saw during the regular season...inconsistant. The difference is the bounces went his way.

Yet Eli made the plays when he had to and Romo didn't. The thing that sticks in my head about the Romo dropped snap is the fact he did not get the 1st down or the TD. It is 4th down and at this point the Cowboys have nothing to lose but when Romo ran for the 1st down and was tackled he tucked the ball away rather than reaching for a 1st down. A fumble would have been a better option. That played showed me he had a lack of field and game awareness. Does anyone doubt that John Elway would have not only got the 1st down on desire alone? Actually I think Elway would have scored the TD.Edit: Romo acted like a holder on that play not a QB.

 

[Koya]

I wonder if anyone argued so hard for Trent Dilfer when he won a Super bowl like some are for Eli...so winning a superbowl and actually being a consistant QB for 3 games gets you crowned Denny Green style now?

Im not trying to hate but really....too small and inconsistent a sample size for both guys to be ranking them as high as some folks are ranking them.

I thought the same thing, Dilfer won a super bowl and many may have said the Ravens won "in spite of" Dilfer. The same argument could be made for Eli, though not as strongly.Until this last streak of games by Eli, most Giants fans I know lived in the fear of "oh no! what is Eli going to do to screw this game up". This recent streak may be a sign that he is moving beyond the point of the QB who makes everyone cringe when he drops back to pass. That would be good for the league and the NYG's.

Don't forget folks, just before Eli's "great escape"/helmet catch by Tyree, there was an ill-advised floating pass that was very close to being intercepted on the sidelines by the PATS.

Don't get me wrong, I was rooting for Elisha, but let's not pretend he is flawless just because he won a super bowl! It obviously does not take a QB "great" to win a SB, see earlier Dilfer reference.

Again, Dilfer's situation is not AT ALL comparable to Eli's other than the winning the SB part.Dilfer was a caretaker. Eli was the best offensive player through the course of the playoffs.

Dilfer had to just not lose the game, Eli had numerous KEY drives at PIVOTAL moments of the game (end of half against Dallas, two 80 yard + TD drives ending in TD passes in the 4th quarter to twice retake the lead against NE and others).

Dilfer had a top 5 defense EVER behind him. Eli's D played fantastic, but it was not the Ravens.

Dilfer had a run run run first offense. The Giants are a fairly balanced attack, and Eli did well even when the running game did not in the playoffs.

Dilfer was a known commodity and Eli is still a young, growing QB.

So stop with the Dilfer comparisons. They are not apt.

I agree that Eli > Dilfer. But Eli may have just graduated to the Romo tier, but has certainly not passed him yet. Let's see if Eli's passer rating can crack 90 next year.....Eli-lovers are suffering from "recency" effect, they can only remember what happened yesterday, not 2 yesterdays ago. The real key is tomorrow, in which I believe Romo will continue to put up better numbers and win a higher percentage of games than Eli as he has career to date.

If better QB meant better numbers I would agree with you.As of right now, I think Romo and Eli are very close, but also very different. Romo will put up better numbers but as of right now, it is hard to argue against Eli being the more clutch of the two - not just because of this past month (and while it is a small sample size, it is still somewhat significant. You don't luck into 4 consecutive good to great weeks on the way to a SB against three of the leagues best defenses along the way) but also because of Eli's comebacks throughout his first three seasons starting at QB.

Again, I can certainly see someone taking Romo, but Eli has PROVEN he can handle the pressure and actually win it all. Romo might have it in him, but we have yet to see him win a playoff game, not to say a NFC championship, not to say the SB. To dismiss the fact that Eli actually DID this is foolish imo.

For the most part I can agree with you, but if being a better QB is not measured by numbers, then what is it measured by, letters??? haircuts??? The recency effect still applies here, Eli overperformed his previous baseline considerably during that playoff stretch, his baseline was about what any mediocre QB's baseline would be. However, Romo's performance baseline is much higher and he underperfomed at the end of the season the past 2 years. Though in my opinion, the underperforming Romo was NOT the downfall of the Cowboys vs. the NYG's in the playoffs this year. Romo has consistenly played at a higher level than Eli, of course I am using "numbers" here.

The only this I can think of that Eli has bested Romo on is that this year Eli FINALLY won a playoff game and now has won the super bowl.

I would rather have Romo.

A QB is measured by how much he enables his team to win. For some, that is clear via stats, for others, not so much. Eli imo falls into the latter - he will never have gaudy stats but I do believe he is a true winner and will help his team win more than QBs with considerably better raw numbers.Stats certainly give you a window into a player's ability and contributions to the team, but only in their correct context. While Eli's stats have been meh at best during his career, he also has shown a clear ability to rise to the occasion in the 4th quarter and pull wins out of a hat. Of course, as Elways once said about his play, if Eli played better during the first 3 quarters, you wouldnt be in the position for so many comebacks... but his ability to rise to the occasion, as a QB and leader of his team, can not go without mention.

That is why I can see why people would take Romo, but Eli's biggest assets are not necessarily the most measurable by stats. Now, if Eli can show that these past weeks are not an exception, and not just rising to the occasion, then I believe he overtakes Romo - although Romo would still likely have better stats.

But as of today, we can not say that. We can assume that will happen, or think it will or debate it but we can not know that next regular season Eli will play like a top 7 QB in the league as his postseason play would indicate.

 

[Phurfur]

I wonder if anyone argued so hard for Trent Dilfer when he won a Super bowl like some are for Eli...so winning a superbowl and actually being a consistant QB for 3 games gets you crowned Denny Green style now?

Im not trying to hate but really....too small and inconsistent a sample size for both guys to be ranking them as high as some folks are ranking them.

I thought the same thing, Dilfer won a super bowl and many may have said the Ravens won "in spite of" Dilfer. The same argument could be made for Eli, though not as strongly.Until this last streak of games by Eli, most Giants fans I know lived in the fear of "oh no! what is Eli going to do to screw this game up". This recent streak may be a sign that he is moving beyond the point of the QB who makes everyone cringe when he drops back to pass. That would be good for the league and the NYG's.

Don't forget folks, just before Eli's "great escape"/helmet catch by Tyree, there was an ill-advised floating pass that was very close to being intercepted on the sidelines by the PATS.

Don't get me wrong, I was rooting for Elisha, but let's not pretend he is flawless just because he won a super bowl! It obviously does not take a QB "great" to win a SB, see earlier Dilfer reference.

Again, Dilfer's situation is not AT ALL comparable to Eli's other than the winning the SB part.Dilfer was a caretaker. Eli was the best offensive player through the course of the playoffs.

Dilfer had to just not lose the game, Eli had numerous KEY drives at PIVOTAL moments of the game (end of half against Dallas, two 80 yard + TD drives ending in TD passes in the 4th quarter to twice retake the lead against NE and others).

Dilfer had a top 5 defense EVER behind him. Eli's D played fantastic, but it was not the Ravens.

Dilfer had a run run run first offense. The Giants are a fairly balanced attack, and Eli did well even when the running game did not in the playoffs.

Dilfer was a known commodity and Eli is still a young, growing QB.

So stop with the Dilfer comparisons. They are not apt.

I agree that Eli > Dilfer. But Eli may have just graduated to the Romo tier, but has certainly not passed him yet. Let's see if Eli's passer rating can crack 90 next year.....Eli-lovers are suffering from "recency" effect, they can only remember what happened yesterday, not 2 yesterdays ago. The real key is tomorrow, in which I believe Romo will continue to put up better numbers and win a higher percentage of games than Eli as he has career to date.

If better QB meant better numbers I would agree with you.As of right now, I think Romo and Eli are very close, but also very different. Romo will put up better numbers but as of right now, it is hard to argue against Eli being the more clutch of the two - not just because of this past month (and while it is a small sample size, it is still somewhat significant. You don't luck into 4 consecutive good to great weeks on the way to a SB against three of the leagues best defenses along the way) but also because of Eli's comebacks throughout his first three seasons starting at QB.

Again, I can certainly see someone taking Romo, but Eli has PROVEN he can handle the pressure and actually win it all. Romo might have it in him, but we have yet to see him win a playoff game, not to say a NFC championship, not to say the SB. To dismiss the fact that Eli actually DID this is foolish imo.

For the most part I can agree with you, but if being a better QB is not measured by numbers, then what is it measured by, letters??? haircuts??? The recency effect still applies here, Eli overperformed his previous baseline considerably during that playoff stretch, his baseline was about what any mediocre QB's baseline would be. However, Romo's performance baseline is much higher and he underperfomed at the end of the season the past 2 years. Though in my opinion, the underperforming Romo was NOT the downfall of the Cowboys vs. the NYG's in the playoffs this year. Romo has consistenly played at a higher level than Eli, of course I am using "numbers" here.

The only this I can think of that Eli has bested Romo on is that this year Eli FINALLY won a playoff game and now has won the super bowl.

I would rather have Romo.

A QB is measured by how much he enables his team to win. For some, that is clear via stats, for others, not so much. Eli imo falls into the latter - he will never have gaudy stats but I do believe he is a true winner and will help his team win more than QBs with considerably better raw numbers.Stats certainly give you a window into a player's ability and contributions to the team, but only in their correct context. While Eli's stats have been meh at best during his career, he also has shown a clear ability to rise to the occasion in the 4th quarter and pull wins out of a hat. Of course, as Elways once said about his play, if Eli played better during the first 3 quarters, you wouldnt be in the position for so many comebacks... but his ability to rise to the occasion, as a QB and leader of his team, can not go without mention.

That is why I can see why people would take Romo, but Eli's biggest assets are not necessarily the most measurable by stats. Now, if Eli can show that these past weeks are not an exception, and not just rising to the occasion, then I believe he overtakes Romo - although Romo would still likely have better stats.

But as of today, we can not say that. We can assume that will happen, or think it will or debate it but we can not know that next regular season Eli will play like a top 7 QB in the league as his postseason play would indicate.

This makes no sense to me, how many SB's does Eli have to win? Two? Three? You cannot compare stats between Eli and Romo because they play on different types of offenses. To me Romo will be a good but not great NFL QB. I would compare him to a Danny White.

 

[Koya]

I wonder if anyone argued so hard for Trent Dilfer when he won a Super bowl like some are for Eli...so winning a superbowl and actually being a consistant QB for 3 games gets you crowned Denny Green style now?

Im not trying to hate but really....too small and inconsistent a sample size for both guys to be ranking them as high as some folks are ranking them.

I thought the same thing, Dilfer won a super bowl and many may have said the Ravens won "in spite of" Dilfer. The same argument could be made for Eli, though not as strongly.Until this last streak of games by Eli, most Giants fans I know lived in the fear of "oh no! what is Eli going to do to screw this game up". This recent streak may be a sign that he is moving beyond the point of the QB who makes everyone cringe when he drops back to pass. That would be good for the league and the NYG's.

Don't forget folks, just before Eli's "great escape"/helmet catch by Tyree, there was an ill-advised floating pass that was very close to being intercepted on the sidelines by the PATS.

Don't get me wrong, I was rooting for Elisha, but let's not pretend he is flawless just because he won a super bowl! It obviously does not take a QB "great" to win a SB, see earlier Dilfer reference.

Again, Dilfer's situation is not AT ALL comparable to Eli's other than the winning the SB part.Dilfer was a caretaker. Eli was the best offensive player through the course of the playoffs.

Dilfer had to just not lose the game, Eli had numerous KEY drives at PIVOTAL moments of the game (end of half against Dallas, two 80 yard + TD drives ending in TD passes in the 4th quarter to twice retake the lead against NE and others).

Dilfer had a top 5 defense EVER behind him. Eli's D played fantastic, but it was not the Ravens.

Dilfer had a run run run first offense. The Giants are a fairly balanced attack, and Eli did well even when the running game did not in the playoffs.

Dilfer was a known commodity and Eli is still a young, growing QB.

So stop with the Dilfer comparisons. They are not apt.

I agree that Eli > Dilfer. But Eli may have just graduated to the Romo tier, but has certainly not passed him yet. Let's see if Eli's passer rating can crack 90 next year.....Eli-lovers are suffering from "recency" effect, they can only remember what happened yesterday, not 2 yesterdays ago. The real key is tomorrow, in which I believe Romo will continue to put up better numbers and win a higher percentage of games than Eli as he has career to date.

If better QB meant better numbers I would agree with you.As of right now, I think Romo and Eli are very close, but also very different. Romo will put up better numbers but as of right now, it is hard to argue against Eli being the more clutch of the two - not just because of this past month (and while it is a small sample size, it is still somewhat significant. You don't luck into 4 consecutive good to great weeks on the way to a SB against three of the leagues best defenses along the way) but also because of Eli's comebacks throughout his first three seasons starting at QB.

Again, I can certainly see someone taking Romo, but Eli has PROVEN he can handle the pressure and actually win it all. Romo might have it in him, but we have yet to see him win a playoff game, not to say a NFC championship, not to say the SB. To dismiss the fact that Eli actually DID this is foolish imo.

For the most part I can agree with you, but if being a better QB is not measured by numbers, then what is it measured by, letters??? haircuts??? The recency effect still applies here, Eli overperformed his previous baseline considerably during that playoff stretch, his baseline was about what any mediocre QB's baseline would be. However, Romo's performance baseline is much higher and he underperfomed at the end of the season the past 2 years. Though in my opinion, the underperforming Romo was NOT the downfall of the Cowboys vs. the NYG's in the playoffs this year. Romo has consistenly played at a higher level than Eli, of course I am using "numbers" here.

The only this I can think of that Eli has bested Romo on is that this year Eli FINALLY won a playoff game and now has won the super bowl.

I would rather have Romo.

A QB is measured by how much he enables his team to win. For some, that is clear via stats, for others, not so much. Eli imo falls into the latter - he will never have gaudy stats but I do believe he is a true winner and will help his team win more than QBs with considerably better raw numbers.Stats certainly give you a window into a player's ability and contributions to the team, but only in their correct context. While Eli's stats have been meh at best during his career, he also has shown a clear ability to rise to the occasion in the 4th quarter and pull wins out of a hat. Of course, as Elways once said about his play, if Eli played better during the first 3 quarters, you wouldnt be in the position for so many comebacks... but his ability to rise to the occasion, as a QB and leader of his team, can not go without mention.

That is why I can see why people would take Romo, but Eli's biggest assets are not necessarily the most measurable by stats. Now, if Eli can show that these past weeks are not an exception, and not just rising to the occasion, then I believe he overtakes Romo - although Romo would still likely have better stats.

But as of today, we can not say that. We can assume that will happen, or think it will or debate it but we can not know that next regular season Eli will play like a top 7 QB in the league as his postseason play would indicate.

This makes no sense to me, how many SB's does Eli have to win? Two? Three? You cannot compare stats between Eli and Romo because they play on different types of offenses. To me Romo will be a good but not great NFL QB. I would compare him to a Danny White.

I have stated over and over that you can not compare Eli and Romo via stats and that I expect Romo to have better stats but Eli has a great chance to be the more winning QB, and THAT is what matters at the position.In regard to SBs... Eli has to prove that this was not a fluke. I don't believe it was, but Eli needs to show that he is not going to throw for 55-58% completion etc, he needs to raise his play during the season to be close to comparable to what we witnessed over the past month. I don't think that is asking too much.

 

[Phurfur]

I wonder if anyone argued so hard for Trent Dilfer when he won a Super bowl like some are for Eli...so winning a superbowl and actually being a consistant QB for 3 games gets you crowned Denny Green style now?

Im not trying to hate but really....too small and inconsistent a sample size for both guys to be ranking them as high as some folks are ranking them.

I thought the same thing, Dilfer won a super bowl and many may have said the Ravens won "in spite of" Dilfer. The same argument could be made for Eli, though not as strongly.Until this last streak of games by Eli, most Giants fans I know lived in the fear of "oh no! what is Eli going to do to screw this game up". This recent streak may be a sign that he is moving beyond the point of the QB who makes everyone cringe when he drops back to pass. That would be good for the league and the NYG's.

Don't forget folks, just before Eli's "great escape"/helmet catch by Tyree, there was an ill-advised floating pass that was very close to being intercepted on the sidelines by the PATS.

Don't get me wrong, I was rooting for Elisha, but let's not pretend he is flawless just because he won a super bowl! It obviously does not take a QB "great" to win a SB, see earlier Dilfer reference.

Again, Dilfer's situation is not AT ALL comparable to Eli's other than the winning the SB part.Dilfer was a caretaker. Eli was the best offensive player through the course of the playoffs.

Dilfer had to just not lose the game, Eli had numerous KEY drives at PIVOTAL moments of the game (end of half against Dallas, two 80 yard + TD drives ending in TD passes in the 4th quarter to twice retake the lead against NE and others).

Dilfer had a top 5 defense EVER behind him. Eli's D played fantastic, but it was not the Ravens.

Dilfer had a run run run first offense. The Giants are a fairly balanced attack, and Eli did well even when the running game did not in the playoffs.

Dilfer was a known commodity and Eli is still a young, growing QB.

So stop with the Dilfer comparisons. They are not apt.

I agree that Eli > Dilfer. But Eli may have just graduated to the Romo tier, but has certainly not passed him yet. Let's see if Eli's passer rating can crack 90 next year.....Eli-lovers are suffering from "recency" effect, they can only remember what happened yesterday, not 2 yesterdays ago. The real key is tomorrow, in which I believe Romo will continue to put up better numbers and win a higher percentage of games than Eli as he has career to date.

If better QB meant better numbers I would agree with you.As of right now, I think Romo and Eli are very close, but also very different. Romo will put up better numbers but as of right now, it is hard to argue against Eli being the more clutch of the two - not just because of this past month (and while it is a small sample size, it is still somewhat significant. You don't luck into 4 consecutive good to great weeks on the way to a SB against three of the leagues best defenses along the way) but also because of Eli's comebacks throughout his first three seasons starting at QB.

Again, I can certainly see someone taking Romo, but Eli has PROVEN he can handle the pressure and actually win it all. Romo might have it in him, but we have yet to see him win a playoff game, not to say a NFC championship, not to say the SB. To dismiss the fact that Eli actually DID this is foolish imo.

For the most part I can agree with you, but if being a better QB is not measured by numbers, then what is it measured by, letters??? haircuts??? The recency effect still applies here, Eli overperformed his previous baseline considerably during that playoff stretch, his baseline was about what any mediocre QB's baseline would be. However, Romo's performance baseline is much higher and he underperfomed at the end of the season the past 2 years. Though in my opinion, the underperforming Romo was NOT the downfall of the Cowboys vs. the NYG's in the playoffs this year. Romo has consistenly played at a higher level than Eli, of course I am using "numbers" here.

The only this I can think of that Eli has bested Romo on is that this year Eli FINALLY won a playoff game and now has won the super bowl.

I would rather have Romo.

A QB is measured by how much he enables his team to win. For some, that is clear via stats, for others, not so much. Eli imo falls into the latter - he will never have gaudy stats but I do believe he is a true winner and will help his team win more than QBs with considerably better raw numbers.Stats certainly give you a window into a player's ability and contributions to the team, but only in their correct context. While Eli's stats have been meh at best during his career, he also has shown a clear ability to rise to the occasion in the 4th quarter and pull wins out of a hat. Of course, as Elways once said about his play, if Eli played better during the first 3 quarters, you wouldnt be in the position for so many comebacks... but his ability to rise to the occasion, as a QB and leader of his team, can not go without mention.

That is why I can see why people would take Romo, but Eli's biggest assets are not necessarily the most measurable by stats. Now, if Eli can show that these past weeks are not an exception, and not just rising to the occasion, then I believe he overtakes Romo - although Romo would still likely have better stats.

But as of today, we can not say that. We can assume that will happen, or think it will or debate it but we can not know that next regular season Eli will play like a top 7 QB in the league as his postseason play would indicate.

This makes no sense to me, how many SB's does Eli have to win? Two? Three? You cannot compare stats between Eli and Romo because they play on different types of offenses. To me Romo will be a good but not great NFL QB. I would compare him to a Danny White.

I have stated over and over that you can not compare Eli and Romo via stats and that I expect Romo to have better stats but Eli has a great chance to be the more winning QB, and THAT is what matters at the position.In regard to SBs... Eli has to prove that this was not a fluke. I don't believe it was, but Eli needs to show that he is not going to throw for 55-58% completion etc, he needs to raise his play during the season to be close to comparable to what we witnessed over the past month. I don't think that is asking too much.

It is more than you ask of any other SB QB. Winning 4 playoff games in a row away from home is not no fluke. Over the last 14 games of the season The NYG were 10-4 while the Cowboys were 11-3. Their season records were NYG - 14-6, Dallas 13-4. Go figure.

 

[Koya]

I wonder if anyone argued so hard for Trent Dilfer when he won a Super bowl like some are for Eli...so winning a superbowl and actually being a consistant QB for 3 games gets you crowned Denny Green style now?

Im not trying to hate but really....too small and inconsistent a sample size for both guys to be ranking them as high as some folks are ranking them.

I thought the same thing, Dilfer won a super bowl and many may have said the Ravens won "in spite of" Dilfer. The same argument could be made for Eli, though not as strongly.Until this last streak of games by Eli, most Giants fans I know lived in the fear of "oh no! what is Eli going to do to screw this game up". This recent streak may be a sign that he is moving beyond the point of the QB who makes everyone cringe when he drops back to pass. That would be good for the league and the NYG's.

Don't forget folks, just before Eli's "great escape"/helmet catch by Tyree, there was an ill-advised floating pass that was very close to being intercepted on the sidelines by the PATS.

Don't get me wrong, I was rooting for Elisha, but let's not pretend he is flawless just because he won a super bowl! It obviously does not take a QB "great" to win a SB, see earlier Dilfer reference.

Again, Dilfer's situation is not AT ALL comparable to Eli's other than the winning the SB part.Dilfer was a caretaker. Eli was the best offensive player through the course of the playoffs.

Dilfer had to just not lose the game, Eli had numerous KEY drives at PIVOTAL moments of the game (end of half against Dallas, two 80 yard + TD drives ending in TD passes in the 4th quarter to twice retake the lead against NE and others).

Dilfer had a top 5 defense EVER behind him. Eli's D played fantastic, but it was not the Ravens.

Dilfer had a run run run first offense. The Giants are a fairly balanced attack, and Eli did well even when the running game did not in the playoffs.

Dilfer was a known commodity and Eli is still a young, growing QB.

So stop with the Dilfer comparisons. They are not apt.

I agree that Eli > Dilfer. But Eli may have just graduated to the Romo tier, but has certainly not passed him yet. Let's see if Eli's passer rating can crack 90 next year.....Eli-lovers are suffering from "recency" effect, they can only remember what happened yesterday, not 2 yesterdays ago. The real key is tomorrow, in which I believe Romo will continue to put up better numbers and win a higher percentage of games than Eli as he has career to date.

If better QB meant better numbers I would agree with you.As of right now, I think Romo and Eli are very close, but also very different. Romo will put up better numbers but as of right now, it is hard to argue against Eli being the more clutch of the two - not just because of this past month (and while it is a small sample size, it is still somewhat significant. You don't luck into 4 consecutive good to great weeks on the way to a SB against three of the leagues best defenses along the way) but also because of Eli's comebacks throughout his first three seasons starting at QB.

Again, I can certainly see someone taking Romo, but Eli has PROVEN he can handle the pressure and actually win it all. Romo might have it in him, but we have yet to see him win a playoff game, not to say a NFC championship, not to say the SB. To dismiss the fact that Eli actually DID this is foolish imo.

For the most part I can agree with you, but if being a better QB is not measured by numbers, then what is it measured by, letters??? haircuts??? The recency effect still applies here, Eli overperformed his previous baseline considerably during that playoff stretch, his baseline was about what any mediocre QB's baseline would be. However, Romo's performance baseline is much higher and he underperfomed at the end of the season the past 2 years. Though in my opinion, the underperforming Romo was NOT the downfall of the Cowboys vs. the NYG's in the playoffs this year. Romo has consistenly played at a higher level than Eli, of course I am using "numbers" here.

The only this I can think of that Eli has bested Romo on is that this year Eli FINALLY won a playoff game and now has won the super bowl.

I would rather have Romo.

A QB is measured by how much he enables his team to win. For some, that is clear via stats, for others, not so much. Eli imo falls into the latter - he will never have gaudy stats but I do believe he is a true winner and will help his team win more than QBs with considerably better raw numbers.Stats certainly give you a window into a player's ability and contributions to the team, but only in their correct context. While Eli's stats have been meh at best during his career, he also has shown a clear ability to rise to the occasion in the 4th quarter and pull wins out of a hat. Of course, as Elways once said about his play, if Eli played better during the first 3 quarters, you wouldnt be in the position for so many comebacks... but his ability to rise to the occasion, as a QB and leader of his team, can not go without mention.

That is why I can see why people would take Romo, but Eli's biggest assets are not necessarily the most measurable by stats. Now, if Eli can show that these past weeks are not an exception, and not just rising to the occasion, then I believe he overtakes Romo - although Romo would still likely have better stats.

But as of today, we can not say that. We can assume that will happen, or think it will or debate it but we can not know that next regular season Eli will play like a top 7 QB in the league as his postseason play would indicate.

This makes no sense to me, how many SB's does Eli have to win? Two? Three? You cannot compare stats between Eli and Romo because they play on different types of offenses. To me Romo will be a good but not great NFL QB. I would compare him to a Danny White.

I have stated over and over that you can not compare Eli and Romo via stats and that I expect Romo to have better stats but Eli has a great chance to be the more winning QB, and THAT is what matters at the position.In regard to SBs... Eli has to prove that this was not a fluke. I don't believe it was, but Eli needs to show that he is not going to throw for 55-58% completion etc, he needs to raise his play during the season to be close to comparable to what we witnessed over the past month. I don't think that is asking too much.

It is more than you ask of any other SB QB. Winning 4 playoff games in a row away from home is not no fluke. Over the last 14 games of the season The NYG were 10-4 while the Cowboys were 11-3. Their season records were NYG - 14-6, Dallas 13-4. Go figure.

Because eli has had a lot of inconsistency in his young career. Goodness, Im getting killed by Eli haters and Eli fans alike, I must be onto something right.

 

[cstu]

"Give me over-rated QB's for 2008, Alex"

"Who are Eli Manning and Derek Anderson?"

 

[Riflemen]

Romo doesn't have to deal with the swirling winds of the Meadowlands. This contributes to Eli's completion percentage deficit.

 

[Banger]

Romo doesn't have to deal with the swirling winds of the Meadowlands. This contributes to Eli's completion percentage deficit.

Romo threw for 247-4-1 in the meadowlands this year.

 

[wharf rat]

Eli. Just win Baby.

Eli will still be productive in the NFL long after Romo's career is done. IMO.

 

[Koya]

"Give me over-rated QB's for 2008, Alex""Who are Eli Manning and Derek Anderson?"

Hard to be overated when you just won a Super Bowl. No one is calling him an HoFer - but he is a Super Bowl WINNING QB (unlikes say a Dilfer who was along for the ride and not a key reason why they won, as Eli was)

 

[mbuehner]

I greatly appreciate what Eli did this post-season. But i still think the Giants miss the playoffs next year.

 

[Riflemen]

Romo doesn't have to deal with the swirling winds of the Meadowlands. This contributes to Eli's completion percentage deficit.

Romo threw for 247-4-1 in the meadowlands this year.

Eli blew up in Dallas in week 1 as well. During the Meadowlands game Romo outplayed Eli due to some busted coverages on T.O. He threw 2 picks to Romo's 1. I'm not sure of the weather that week (whether the wind was kicking or not) but they had similar stats. Romo doesn't have the handicap of playing in bad elements is what I was stating.

 

[Phurfur]

I greatly appreciate what Eli did this post-season. But i still think the Giants miss the playoffs next year.

What six teams will make it then?

 

[mbuehner]

I greatly appreciate what Eli did this post-season. But i still think the Giants miss the playoffs next year.

What six teams will make it then?

GB, Dallas, NO, Az, Philly, Minnesota... and i think Seattle (finally managing to not be handed the West) and TB have a shot at a better record than NYG. Giants will have a brutal schedule and probably a false sense of just how easy they should win the East.... plus they have to play 8 games at home.

 

[GregR_2]

Didn't read the whole thread. I think Romo is probably more fundamentally solid than Eli. Not so much that I think Romo has great mechanics... he might but I'd want to watch some games and pay attention to it before saying so.

But I think Eli has some bad mechanics. He lets the pocket close in on him way too often and then throws off his back foot. Romo has been known to be a bit unconventional ala Favre, but I'd still go with him at this point until I've seen him making throws that made me wince before the ball is even out of his hand as often as Eli does.

 

[roughrider]

ROOOMOOOO

 

[Franchise Playa]

"Give me over-rated QB's for 2008, Alex""Who are Eli Manning and Derek Anderson?"

Hard to be overated when you just won a Super Bowl. No one is calling him an HoFer - but he is a Super Bowl WINNING QB (unlikes say a Dilfer who was along for the ride and not a key reason why they won, as Eli was)

Im sure Dilfer did not contribute at all to the team that year. Because when you have a good defense QB play is so not important. Tony Banks must have not wanted to play the whole year cause its not like he got benched for Dilfer or anything...

 

[Koya]

"Give me over-rated QB's for 2008, Alex""Who are Eli Manning and Derek Anderson?"

Hard to be overated when you just won a Super Bowl. No one is calling him an HoFer - but he is a Super Bowl WINNING QB (unlikes say a Dilfer who was along for the ride and not a key reason why they won, as Eli was)

Im sure Dilfer did not contribute at all to the team that year. Because when you have a good defense QB play is so not important. Tony Banks must have not wanted to play the whole year cause its not like he got benched for Dilfer or anything...

May I ask what your point is? Do you contend that Dilfer was a playmaker and a reason they won, as opposed to doing whatever was necessary from his position not to lose?

 

[dominus]

I'd take Eli any day. Yes, I am a Giants fan. But - let me tell you, since he came in as a rookie, there is one thing about him that has remained consistent.... his ability to lead the team down for a TD in the 2 minute drill. He may still throw INTs in the other 56 minutes of the game, but in the last 2 minutes of each half, he is dangerous. There is just something about him that turns on when the pressure is really on. We've seen this a bunch of times... most recently at the end of the first half at Dallas and then the memorable last drive in this Superbowl. That quality is what makes a championship QB.... Montana, Brady, etc., they're famous for that. Eli has it.... I haven't seen it in Romo. Is Romo more athletic? Hell yeah. Can he make more plays out of nothing? Yup. But when it comes down to the last drive.... I will take Eli any day of the week.

 

[Franchise Playa]

"Give me over-rated QB's for 2008, Alex""Who are Eli Manning and Derek Anderson?"

Hard to be overated when you just won a Super Bowl. No one is calling him an HoFer - but he is a Super Bowl WINNING QB (unlikes say a Dilfer who was along for the ride and not a key reason why they won, as Eli was)

Im sure Dilfer did not contribute at all to the team that year. Because when you have a good defense QB play is so not important. Tony Banks must have not wanted to play the whole year cause its not like he got benched for Dilfer or anything...

May I ask what your point is? Do you contend that Dilfer was a playmaker and a reason they won, as opposed to doing whatever was necessary from his position not to lose?

My point is you keep mentioning how much Eli is a SB winner and MVP yet discount Dilfer who also helped his team get to the SB and win it. Was he more vital? No. Did he help get the win? Yes but you seem to dismiss him yet pump up Eli. The main reason they won is the Giants Defense stopped the highest scoring offense is NFL history. If you think Eli would have beaten NE in a shootout you need only look to week 17....That win was a team effort not just by Eli and the D being the larger part. He made plays down the stretch like a QB of his stature and draft position is supposed to no one is dismissing that. All im saying and others on this thread are as well is he needs to show he can be consistent for a consistent time frame. Not throw those bonehead what was he thinking throws in tight games to put himself in a position where he HAS to make a comeback. He won the game...he deserves the praise but he has work to do. Its almost like your saying he can f-up for the rest of his career and its ok because he won the Giants a SB...

 

[dominus]

Its almost like your saying he can f-up for the rest of his career and its ok because he won the Giants a SB...

Well, in NY he is a legend now, and what you say above is basically true in the mind of a lot of fans. Not that it matches reality, but he is a golden boy in New York forever.

 

[Koya]

"Give me over-rated QB's for 2008, Alex""Who are Eli Manning and Derek Anderson?"

Hard to be overated when you just won a Super Bowl. No one is calling him an HoFer - but he is a Super Bowl WINNING QB (unlikes say a Dilfer who was along for the ride and not a key reason why they won, as Eli was)

Im sure Dilfer did not contribute at all to the team that year. Because when you have a good defense QB play is so not important. Tony Banks must have not wanted to play the whole year cause its not like he got benched for Dilfer or anything...

May I ask what your point is? Do you contend that Dilfer was a playmaker and a reason they won, as opposed to doing whatever was necessary from his position not to lose?

(1) you keep mentioning how much Eli is a SB winner and MVP yet discount Dilfer who also helped his team get to the SB and win it. Was he more vital? No. Did he help get the win? Yes but you seem to dismiss him yet pump up Eli. (2) The main reason they won is the Giants Defense stopped the highest scoring offense is NFL history. If you think Eli would have beaten NE in a shootout you need only look to week 17....That win was a team effort not just by Eli and the D being the larger part. He made plays down the stretch like a QB of his stature and draft position is supposed to no one is dismissing that. (3) All im saying and others on this thread are as well is he needs to show he can be consistent for a consistent time frame. Not throw those bonehead what was he thinking throws in tight games to put himself in a position where he HAS to make a comeback. He won the game...he deserves the praise but he has work to do. Its almost like your saying he can f-up for the rest of his career and its ok because he won the Giants a SB...

(1) I dont discount Dilfer. I just point out the fact that Dilfer is a below avg Qb who was asked not to screw things up for the best defense in nearly 2 decades and a fantastic running game. Eli actively helped his team as the best offensive player in both the SB and Playoffs as a whole. Why people don't want to recognize this, I don't know. (2) The DL was the best group, but as an individual, the Giants simply would not have won the SB with an average QB showing. Against a very good D in NE, Eli scored TWO go ahead TDs on 80+ yard drives IIRC int he FOURTH QUARTER. But again, ignore that which is (literally) the stuff legends are made of (not saying eli is a legend., But he won a legendary SB, and so many wish to dismiss this - why do you dismiss this is the real question here). You yourself say he lives up to a QB of his stature and draft position there - well, tell me the other first overall draft picks to win a SB (his brother comes to mind, not many else off the top of my head)(3) I have pointed out many times that Eli needs to prove he can play like this (or close to this) consistently. But the ceiling, that has already been PROVEN POSSIBLE (this should not be discounted) is SB caliber MVP type QB in crunch time. I never expect Eli to have Romo numbers however.(4) In a way, yes. Even ONE championship is worth that much. As all those teams who have never won the SB - not once. Now, to be considered an elite QB Eli needs to do one of two things, and perhaps both: Demonstrate that he can play at or close to the caliber of play demonstrated in the playoffs on a regular basis AND/OR play well enough in the regular season, even if inconsistent, to get to the playoffs and then raise his level of play to the level demonstrated over the past month.

 

[Franchise Playa]

"Give me over-rated QB's for 2008, Alex""Who are Eli Manning and Derek Anderson?"

Hard to be overated when you just won a Super Bowl. No one is calling him an HoFer - but he is a Super Bowl WINNING QB (unlikes say a Dilfer who was along for the ride and not a key reason why they won, as Eli was)

Im sure Dilfer did not contribute at all to the team that year. Because when you have a good defense QB play is so not important. Tony Banks must have not wanted to play the whole year cause its not like he got benched for Dilfer or anything...

May I ask what your point is? Do you contend that Dilfer was a playmaker and a reason they won, as opposed to doing whatever was necessary from his position not to lose?

(1) you keep mentioning how much Eli is a SB winner and MVP yet discount Dilfer who also helped his team get to the SB and win it. Was he more vital? No. Did he help get the win? Yes but you seem to dismiss him yet pump up Eli. (2) The main reason they won is the Giants Defense stopped the highest scoring offense is NFL history. If you think Eli would have beaten NE in a shootout you need only look to week 17....That win was a team effort not just by Eli and the D being the larger part. He made plays down the stretch like a QB of his stature and draft position is supposed to no one is dismissing that. (3) All im saying and others on this thread are as well is he needs to show he can be consistent for a consistent time frame. Not throw those bonehead what was he thinking throws in tight games to put himself in a position where he HAS to make a comeback. He won the game...he deserves the praise but he has work to do. Its almost like your saying he can f-up for the rest of his career and its ok because he won the Giants a SB...

(1) I dont discount Dilfer. I just point out the fact that Dilfer is a below avg Qb who was asked not to screw things up for the best defense in nearly 2 decades and a fantastic running game. Eli actively helped his team as the best offensive player in both the SB and Playoffs as a whole. Why people don't want to recognize this, I don't know. (2) The DL was the best group, but as an individual, the Giants simply would not have won the SB with an average QB showing. Against a very good D in NE, Eli scored TWO go ahead TDs on 80+ yard drives IIRC int he FOURTH QUARTER. But again, ignore that which is (literally) the stuff legends are made of (not saying eli is a legend., But he won a legendary SB, and so many wish to dismiss this - why do you dismiss this is the real question here). You yourself say he lives up to a QB of his stature and draft position there - well, tell me the other first overall draft picks to win a SB (his brother comes to mind, not many else off the top of my head)(3) I have pointed out many times that Eli needs to prove he can play like this (or close to this) consistently. But the ceiling, that has already been PROVEN POSSIBLE (this should not be discounted) is SB caliber MVP type QB in crunch time. I never expect Eli to have Romo numbers however.(4) In a way, yes. Even ONE championship is worth that much. As all those teams who have never won the SB - not once. Now, to be considered an elite QB Eli needs to do one of two things, and perhaps both: Demonstrate that he can play at or close to the caliber of play demonstrated in the playoffs on a regular basis AND/OR play well enough in the regular season, even if inconsistent, to get to the playoffs and then raise his level of play to the level demonstrated over the past month.

To address your comments1. Eli had the same label heading into this season game manager and a "please don't lose the game for us" guy. The main reason that changed is the uncertainty at RB and the fact he needed to take that next step so they put the ball in his hands more. And due to Dilfer being so average his accomplishment should be greater no? And again it's not like he started the season as QB he was put in and they won a SB because he made enough plays on offense to keep running game going. Sounds vital to me...for a team that runs the ball like they did. If it was so easy the other average guy Tony Banks would have still been in there.2. So do you really believe that the Giants would have won a shootout had the D come in average that day? My point is give credit where credit is truly due. NOBODY was going to beat the Pats this year unless you played excellent D for 4 quarters. Again defense wins championships and it did. The offense did it's part but they would not have had a last min drive without the D keeping it close.3. I agree but if he flops the rest of his career then that diminishes this win as a fluke. Im not saying his play WAS a fluke but he would not be the first SB mvp to tail off and disappear after playing well in the big game. I would like him to be consistent so there is no doubt he is the real deal and there is more of those wins to come.4. I look at it this way...I would be grateful for a championship, but I would also expect that player to not rest on that 1 win and get better. I would want Phil Simms to be the basement and Montana to be the ceiling for my teams QB. I would not want my guy's ceiling to be Jeff Hostetler (not comparing talent but 1 postseason of good play and a ring).

 

[Koya]

"Give me over-rated QB's for 2008, Alex""Who are Eli Manning and Derek Anderson?"

Hard to be overated when you just won a Super Bowl. No one is calling him an HoFer - but he is a Super Bowl WINNING QB (unlikes say a Dilfer who was along for the ride and not a key reason why they won, as Eli was)

Im sure Dilfer did not contribute at all to the team that year. Because when you have a good defense QB play is so not important. Tony Banks must have not wanted to play the whole year cause its not like he got benched for Dilfer or anything...

May I ask what your point is? Do you contend that Dilfer was a playmaker and a reason they won, as opposed to doing whatever was necessary from his position not to lose?

(1) you keep mentioning how much Eli is a SB winner and MVP yet discount Dilfer who also helped his team get to the SB and win it. Was he more vital? No. Did he help get the win? Yes but you seem to dismiss him yet pump up Eli. (2) The main reason they won is the Giants Defense stopped the highest scoring offense is NFL history. If you think Eli would have beaten NE in a shootout you need only look to week 17....That win was a team effort not just by Eli and the D being the larger part. He made plays down the stretch like a QB of his stature and draft position is supposed to no one is dismissing that. (3) All im saying and others on this thread are as well is he needs to show he can be consistent for a consistent time frame. Not throw those bonehead what was he thinking throws in tight games to put himself in a position where he HAS to make a comeback. He won the game...he deserves the praise but he has work to do. Its almost like your saying he can f-up for the rest of his career and its ok because he won the Giants a SB...

(1) I dont discount Dilfer. I just point out the fact that Dilfer is a below avg Qb who was asked not to screw things up for the best defense in nearly 2 decades and a fantastic running game. Eli actively helped his team as the best offensive player in both the SB and Playoffs as a whole. Why people don't want to recognize this, I don't know. (2) The DL was the best group, but as an individual, the Giants simply would not have won the SB with an average QB showing. Against a very good D in NE, Eli scored TWO go ahead TDs on 80+ yard drives IIRC int he FOURTH QUARTER. But again, ignore that which is (literally) the stuff legends are made of (not saying eli is a legend., But he won a legendary SB, and so many wish to dismiss this - why do you dismiss this is the real question here). You yourself say he lives up to a QB of his stature and draft position there - well, tell me the other first overall draft picks to win a SB (his brother comes to mind, not many else off the top of my head)(3) I have pointed out many times that Eli needs to prove he can play like this (or close to this) consistently. But the ceiling, that has already been PROVEN POSSIBLE (this should not be discounted) is SB caliber MVP type QB in crunch time. I never expect Eli to have Romo numbers however.(4) In a way, yes. Even ONE championship is worth that much. As all those teams who have never won the SB - not once. Now, to be considered an elite QB Eli needs to do one of two things, and perhaps both: Demonstrate that he can play at or close to the caliber of play demonstrated in the playoffs on a regular basis AND/OR play well enough in the regular season, even if inconsistent, to get to the playoffs and then raise his level of play to the level demonstrated over the past month.

To address your comments1. Eli had the same label heading into this season game manager and a "please don't lose the game for us" guy. The main reason that changed is the uncertainty at RB and the fact he needed to take that next step so they put the ball in his hands more. And due to Dilfer being so average his accomplishment should be greater no? And again it's not like he started the season as QB he was put in and they won a SB because he made enough plays on offense to keep running game going. Sounds vital to me...for a team that runs the ball like they did. If it was so easy the other average guy Tony Banks would have still been in there.2. So do you really believe that the Giants would have won a shootout had the D come in average that day? My point is give credit where credit is truly due. NOBODY was going to beat the Pats this year unless you played excellent D for 4 quarters. Again defense wins championships and it did. The offense did it's part but they would not have had a last min drive without the D keeping it close.3. I agree but if he flops the rest of his career then that diminishes this win as a fluke. Im not saying his play WAS a fluke but he would not be the first SB mvp to tail off and disappear after playing well in the big game. I would like him to be consistent so there is no doubt he is the real deal and there is more of those wins to come.4. I look at it this way...I would be grateful for a championship, but I would also expect that player to not rest on that 1 win and get better. I would want Phil Simms to be the basement and Montana to be the ceiling for my teams QB. I would not want my guy's ceiling to be Jeff Hostetler (not comparing talent but 1 postseason of good play and a ring).

1. Eli never had the label here in NY of only a game manager. He was expected to be far more and showed flashes during his inconsistent play before this last run.2. Eli scored 35 points against this same team 6 weeks ago. If the Giants D then played half as well as they did during the SB, Eli would have outscored the Pats. Now, Eli had a late bad play, but the cat was out of the bag by that point anyway as NE took over late.3. Ive said Eli needs to show this is who he is, not the inconsistent player of the past. 4. You have good points about Simms to Montana. But tell me this: your team could have Marino's career, or Hostetlers.Im taking the championship personally.

 

[Franchise Playa]

"Give me over-rated QB's for 2008, Alex""Who are Eli Manning and Derek Anderson?"

Hard to be overated when you just won a Super Bowl. No one is calling him an HoFer - but he is a Super Bowl WINNING QB (unlikes say a Dilfer who was along for the ride and not a key reason why they won, as Eli was)

Im sure Dilfer did not contribute at all to the team that year. Because when you have a good defense QB play is so not important. Tony Banks must have not wanted to play the whole year cause its not like he got benched for Dilfer or anything...

May I ask what your point is? Do you contend that Dilfer was a playmaker and a reason they won, as opposed to doing whatever was necessary from his position not to lose?

(1) you keep mentioning how much Eli is a SB winner and MVP yet discount Dilfer who also helped his team get to the SB and win it. Was he more vital? No. Did he help get the win? Yes but you seem to dismiss him yet pump up Eli. (2) The main reason they won is the Giants Defense stopped the highest scoring offense is NFL history. If you think Eli would have beaten NE in a shootout you need only look to week 17....That win was a team effort not just by Eli and the D being the larger part. He made plays down the stretch like a QB of his stature and draft position is supposed to no one is dismissing that. (3) All im saying and others on this thread are as well is he needs to show he can be consistent for a consistent time frame. Not throw those bonehead what was he thinking throws in tight games to put himself in a position where he HAS to make a comeback. He won the game...he deserves the praise but he has work to do. Its almost like your saying he can f-up for the rest of his career and its ok because he won the Giants a SB...

(1) I dont discount Dilfer. I just point out the fact that Dilfer is a below avg Qb who was asked not to screw things up for the best defense in nearly 2 decades and a fantastic running game. Eli actively helped his team as the best offensive player in both the SB and Playoffs as a whole. Why people don't want to recognize this, I don't know. (2) The DL was the best group, but as an individual, the Giants simply would not have won the SB with an average QB showing. Against a very good D in NE, Eli scored TWO go ahead TDs on 80+ yard drives IIRC int he FOURTH QUARTER. But again, ignore that which is (literally) the stuff legends are made of (not saying eli is a legend., But he won a legendary SB, and so many wish to dismiss this - why do you dismiss this is the real question here). You yourself say he lives up to a QB of his stature and draft position there - well, tell me the other first overall draft picks to win a SB (his brother comes to mind, not many else off the top of my head)(3) I have pointed out many times that Eli needs to prove he can play like this (or close to this) consistently. But the ceiling, that has already been PROVEN POSSIBLE (this should not be discounted) is SB caliber MVP type QB in crunch time. I never expect Eli to have Romo numbers however.(4) In a way, yes. Even ONE championship is worth that much. As all those teams who have never won the SB - not once. Now, to be considered an elite QB Eli needs to do one of two things, and perhaps both: Demonstrate that he can play at or close to the caliber of play demonstrated in the playoffs on a regular basis AND/OR play well enough in the regular season, even if inconsistent, to get to the playoffs and then raise his level of play to the level demonstrated over the past month.

To address your comments1. Eli had the same label heading into this season game manager and a "please don't lose the game for us" guy. The main reason that changed is the uncertainty at RB and the fact he needed to take that next step so they put the ball in his hands more. And due to Dilfer being so average his accomplishment should be greater no? And again it's not like he started the season as QB he was put in and they won a SB because he made enough plays on offense to keep running game going. Sounds vital to me...for a team that runs the ball like they did. If it was so easy the other average guy Tony Banks would have still been in there.2. So do you really believe that the Giants would have won a shootout had the D come in average that day? My point is give credit where credit is truly due. NOBODY was going to beat the Pats this year unless you played excellent D for 4 quarters. Again defense wins championships and it did. The offense did it's part but they would not have had a last min drive without the D keeping it close.3. I agree but if he flops the rest of his career then that diminishes this win as a fluke. Im not saying his play WAS a fluke but he would not be the first SB mvp to tail off and disappear after playing well in the big game. I would like him to be consistent so there is no doubt he is the real deal and there is more of those wins to come.4. I look at it this way...I would be grateful for a championship, but I would also expect that player to not rest on that 1 win and get better. I would want Phil Simms to be the basement and Montana to be the ceiling for my teams QB. I would not want my guy's ceiling to be Jeff Hostetler (not comparing talent but 1 postseason of good play and a ring).

1. Eli never had the label here in NY of only a game manager. He was expected to be far more and showed flashes during his inconsistent play before this last run.2. Eli scored 35 points against this same team 6 weeks ago. If the Giants D then played half as well as they did during the SB, Eli would have outscored the Pats. Now, Eli had a late bad play, but the cat was out of the bag by that point anyway as NE took over late.3. Ive said Eli needs to show this is who he is, not the inconsistent player of the past. 4. You have good points about Simms to Montana. But tell me this: your team could have Marino's career, or Hostetlers.Im taking the championship personally.

To address point #4I don't really have a team so I will answer from a personal perspective. The 2 equal itself out in a way....Im sure Miami fans would have loved Marino to have won a title...but im pretty sure as empty as it feels for them to not have seen him win one his excellent play year after year and the memories of seeing one of the best in history play has to fill that void. Im sure Bronco fans feel complete after Elway won 2, but it depends on your view. If I know my QB played balls out every season and performed at a high level consistently over his career I can live without the ring. That just means other factors (no Def, dominate division foe, injuries ect ect) affected my teams lack of wins...not my QB and the effort and play would earn more than my respect and admiration.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

"Give me over-rated QB's for 2008, Alex""Who are Eli Manning and Derek Anderson?"

Hard to be overated when you just won a Super Bowl. No one is calling him an HoFer - but he is a Super Bowl WINNING QB (unlikes say a Dilfer who was along for the ride and not a key reason why they won, as Eli was)

Im sure Dilfer did not contribute at all to the team that year. Because when you have a good defense QB play is so not important. Tony Banks must have not wanted to play the whole year cause its not like he got benched for Dilfer or anything...

Dilfer played better than you think. He did what was asked. He didn't light it up, but he didn't melt under the pressure of being in the SB, he made some throws (particularly to Shannon Sharpe) when he needed to, especially that 90 some harder vs. Oakland in the playoffs.Dilfer was the perfect QB for that team, he was experienced enough to know how not to screw it up. Guys just like a Tony Banks could not have done what he was asked to do.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

"Give me over-rated QB's for 2008, Alex""Who are Eli Manning and Derek Anderson?"

Hard to be overated when you just won a Super Bowl. No one is calling him an HoFer - but he is a Super Bowl WINNING QB (unlikes say a Dilfer who was along for the ride and not a key reason why they won, as Eli was)

Im sure Dilfer did not contribute at all to the team that year. Because when you have a good defense QB play is so not important. Tony Banks must have not wanted to play the whole year cause its not like he got benched for Dilfer or anything...

May I ask what your point is? Do you contend that Dilfer was a playmaker and a reason they won, as opposed to doing whatever was necessary from his position not to lose?

(1) you keep mentioning how much Eli is a SB winner and MVP yet discount Dilfer who also helped his team get to the SB and win it. Was he more vital? No. Did he help get the win? Yes but you seem to dismiss him yet pump up Eli. (2) The main reason they won is the Giants Defense stopped the highest scoring offense is NFL history. If you think Eli would have beaten NE in a shootout you need only look to week 17....That win was a team effort not just by Eli and the D being the larger part. He made plays down the stretch like a QB of his stature and draft position is supposed to no one is dismissing that. (3) All im saying and others on this thread are as well is he needs to show he can be consistent for a consistent time frame. Not throw those bonehead what was he thinking throws in tight games to put himself in a position where he HAS to make a comeback. He won the game...he deserves the praise but he has work to do. Its almost like your saying he can f-up for the rest of his career and its ok because he won the Giants a SB...

(1) I dont discount Dilfer. I just point out the fact that Dilfer is a below avg Qb who was asked not to screw things up for the best defense in nearly 2 decades and a fantastic running game. Eli actively helped his team as the best offensive player in both the SB and Playoffs as a whole. Why people don't want to recognize this, I don't know. (2) The DL was the best group, but as an individual, the Giants simply would not have won the SB with an average QB showing. Against a very good D in NE, Eli scored TWO go ahead TDs on 80+ yard drives IIRC int he FOURTH QUARTER. But again, ignore that which is (literally) the stuff legends are made of (not saying eli is a legend., But he won a legendary SB, and so many wish to dismiss this - why do you dismiss this is the real question here). You yourself say he lives up to a QB of his stature and draft position there - well, tell me the other first overall draft picks to win a SB (his brother comes to mind, not many else off the top of my head)(3) I have pointed out many times that Eli needs to prove he can play like this (or close to this) consistently. But the ceiling, that has already been PROVEN POSSIBLE (this should not be discounted) is SB caliber MVP type QB in crunch time. I never expect Eli to have Romo numbers however.(4) In a way, yes. Even ONE championship is worth that much. As all those teams who have never won the SB - not once. Now, to be considered an elite QB Eli needs to do one of two things, and perhaps both: Demonstrate that he can play at or close to the caliber of play demonstrated in the playoffs on a regular basis AND/OR play well enough in the regular season, even if inconsistent, to get to the playoffs and then raise his level of play to the level demonstrated over the past month.

People in general are afraid to admit they're wrong, plain and simple. If someone was an Eli basher before the Super Bowl and you still are today, then I'm talking to you.The guy has been under tremendous pressure, tremendous pressure since before Week 1. I can specfically remember if you were talking about the Giants in preseason, you were talking about how bad they were going to be. In fact, I wish I had it taped but I remember S. Salsbury and JAWS talking about the Giants and they basically said even if Manning plays well this year, they're still going to lose. That he was in a no win situation because if he played well, they'd lose and he'd get the heat for it and if he plays bad, they'd lose and he'd get the heat.Then, the Tiki thing comes out and they fall to 0 and 2, giving up a million points on D. They're running backs get all dinged up and all of a sudden the Giants start playing better. That is largely due to Eli Manning.I've watched him play and I've always been impressed. I see some little things that he does wrong, I don't think he's as good as Peyton mechanically or Tom Brady, but he doesn't deserve to be compared to them over and over. He's his own guy and what I saw from him this year was a guy that good handle the most extreme pressures from the offseason, all the way to the Super Bowl.If you're not impressed with that, then you won't be, ever. To sit back and say well he'll do this or that next year is lame.You don't have to like Eli Manning, but you have to give him his due if you're an objective person.As far as a NFL QB, he's done something Tony Romo didn't do and that's lead his team to a SB. IMO, the Giants were no better than Dallas this year to say the least but yet they got the job done, largely due to him.

 

[horadadude]

"Give me over-rated QB's for 2008, Alex""Who are Eli Manning and Derek Anderson?"

Hard to be overated when you just won a Super Bowl. No one is calling him an HoFer - but he is a Super Bowl WINNING QB (unlikes say a Dilfer who was along for the ride and not a key reason why they won, as Eli was)

Im sure Dilfer did not contribute at all to the team that year. Because when you have a good defense QB play is so not important. Tony Banks must have not wanted to play the whole year cause its not like he got benched for Dilfer or anything...

May I ask what your point is? Do you contend that Dilfer was a playmaker and a reason they won, as opposed to doing whatever was necessary from his position not to lose?

(1) you keep mentioning how much Eli is a SB winner and MVP yet discount Dilfer who also helped his team get to the SB and win it. Was he more vital? No. Did he help get the win? Yes but you seem to dismiss him yet pump up Eli. (2) The main reason they won is the Giants Defense stopped the highest scoring offense is NFL history. If you think Eli would have beaten NE in a shootout you need only look to week 17....That win was a team effort not just by Eli and the D being the larger part. He made plays down the stretch like a QB of his stature and draft position is supposed to no one is dismissing that. (3) All im saying and others on this thread are as well is he needs to show he can be consistent for a consistent time frame. Not throw those bonehead what was he thinking throws in tight games to put himself in a position where he HAS to make a comeback. He won the game...he deserves the praise but he has work to do. Its almost like your saying he can f-up for the rest of his career and its ok because he won the Giants a SB...

(1) I dont discount Dilfer. I just point out the fact that Dilfer is a below avg Qb who was asked not to screw things up for the best defense in nearly 2 decades and a fantastic running game. Eli actively helped his team as the best offensive player in both the SB and Playoffs as a whole. Why people don't want to recognize this, I don't know. (2) The DL was the best group, but as an individual, the Giants simply would not have won the SB with an average QB showing. Against a very good D in NE, Eli scored TWO go ahead TDs on 80+ yard drives IIRC int he FOURTH QUARTER. But again, ignore that which is (literally) the stuff legends are made of (not saying eli is a legend., But he won a legendary SB, and so many wish to dismiss this - why do you dismiss this is the real question here). You yourself say he lives up to a QB of his stature and draft position there - well, tell me the other first overall draft picks to win a SB (his brother comes to mind, not many else off the top of my head)(3) I have pointed out many times that Eli needs to prove he can play like this (or close to this) consistently. But the ceiling, that has already been PROVEN POSSIBLE (this should not be discounted) is SB caliber MVP type QB in crunch time. I never expect Eli to have Romo numbers however.(4) In a way, yes. Even ONE championship is worth that much. As all those teams who have never won the SB - not once. Now, to be considered an elite QB Eli needs to do one of two things, and perhaps both: Demonstrate that he can play at or close to the caliber of play demonstrated in the playoffs on a regular basis AND/OR play well enough in the regular season, even if inconsistent, to get to the playoffs and then raise his level of play to the level demonstrated over the past month.

People in general are afraid to admit they're wrong, plain and simple. If someone was an Eli basher before the Super Bowl and you still are today, then I'm talking to you.The guy has been under tremendous pressure, tremendous pressure since before Week 1. I can specfically remember if you were talking about the Giants in preseason, you were talking about how bad they were going to be. In fact, I wish I had it taped but I remember S. Salsbury and JAWS talking about the Giants and they basically said even if Manning plays well this year, they're still going to lose. That he was in a no win situation because if he played well, they'd lose and he'd get the heat for it and if he plays bad, they'd lose and he'd get the heat.Then, the Tiki thing comes out and they fall to 0 and 2, giving up a million points on D. They're running backs get all dinged up and all of a sudden the Giants start playing better. That is largely due to Eli Manning.I've watched him play and I've always been impressed. I see some little things that he does wrong, I don't think he's as good as Peyton mechanically or Tom Brady, but he doesn't deserve to be compared to them over and over. He's his own guy and what I saw from him this year was a guy that good handle the most extreme pressures from the offseason, all the way to the Super Bowl.If you're not impressed with that, then you won't be, ever. To sit back and say well he'll do this or that next year is lame.You don't have to like Eli Manning, but you have to give him his due if you're an objective person.As far as a NFL QB, he's done something Tony Romo didn't do and that's lead his team to a SB. IMO, the Giants were no better than Dallas this year to say the least but yet they got the job done, largely due to him.

Man - very well put....bravo. The only thing I disagree with you slightly is that the Cowboys were argueably a better team than the Giants - 13 Pro Bowlers - and still Eli was the last man standing.

 

[Phurfur]

"Give me over-rated QB's for 2008, Alex""Who are Eli Manning and Derek Anderson?"

Hard to be overated when you just won a Super Bowl. No one is calling him an HoFer - but he is a Super Bowl WINNING QB (unlikes say a Dilfer who was along for the ride and not a key reason why they won, as Eli was)

Im sure Dilfer did not contribute at all to the team that year. Because when you have a good defense QB play is so not important. Tony Banks must have not wanted to play the whole year cause its not like he got benched for Dilfer or anything...

May I ask what your point is? Do you contend that Dilfer was a playmaker and a reason they won, as opposed to doing whatever was necessary from his position not to lose?

(1) you keep mentioning how much Eli is a SB winner and MVP yet discount Dilfer who also helped his team get to the SB and win it. Was he more vital? No. Did he help get the win? Yes but you seem to dismiss him yet pump up Eli. (2) The main reason they won is the Giants Defense stopped the highest scoring offense is NFL history. If you think Eli would have beaten NE in a shootout you need only look to week 17....That win was a team effort not just by Eli and the D being the larger part. He made plays down the stretch like a QB of his stature and draft position is supposed to no one is dismissing that. (3) All im saying and others on this thread are as well is he needs to show he can be consistent for a consistent time frame. Not throw those bonehead what was he thinking throws in tight games to put himself in a position where he HAS to make a comeback. He won the game...he deserves the praise but he has work to do. Its almost like your saying he can f-up for the rest of his career and its ok because he won the Giants a SB...

(1) I dont discount Dilfer. I just point out the fact that Dilfer is a below avg Qb who was asked not to screw things up for the best defense in nearly 2 decades and a fantastic running game. Eli actively helped his team as the best offensive player in both the SB and Playoffs as a whole. Why people don't want to recognize this, I don't know. (2) The DL was the best group, but as an individual, the Giants simply would not have won the SB with an average QB showing. Against a very good D in NE, Eli scored TWO go ahead TDs on 80+ yard drives IIRC int he FOURTH QUARTER. But again, ignore that which is (literally) the stuff legends are made of (not saying eli is a legend., But he won a legendary SB, and so many wish to dismiss this - why do you dismiss this is the real question here). You yourself say he lives up to a QB of his stature and draft position there - well, tell me the other first overall draft picks to win a SB (his brother comes to mind, not many else off the top of my head)(3) I have pointed out many times that Eli needs to prove he can play like this (or close to this) consistently. But the ceiling, that has already been PROVEN POSSIBLE (this should not be discounted) is SB caliber MVP type QB in crunch time. I never expect Eli to have Romo numbers however.(4) In a way, yes. Even ONE championship is worth that much. As all those teams who have never won the SB - not once. Now, to be considered an elite QB Eli needs to do one of two things, and perhaps both: Demonstrate that he can play at or close to the caliber of play demonstrated in the playoffs on a regular basis AND/OR play well enough in the regular season, even if inconsistent, to get to the playoffs and then raise his level of play to the level demonstrated over the past month.

People in general are afraid to admit they're wrong, plain and simple. If someone was an Eli basher before the Super Bowl and you still are today, then I'm talking to you.The guy has been under tremendous pressure, tremendous pressure since before Week 1. I can specfically remember if you were talking about the Giants in preseason, you were talking about how bad they were going to be. In fact, I wish I had it taped but I remember S. Salsbury and JAWS talking about the Giants and they basically said even if Manning plays well this year, they're still going to lose. That he was in a no win situation because if he played well, they'd lose and he'd get the heat for it and if he plays bad, they'd lose and he'd get the heat.Then, the Tiki thing comes out and they fall to 0 and 2, giving up a million points on D. They're running backs get all dinged up and all of a sudden the Giants start playing better. That is largely due to Eli Manning.I've watched him play and I've always been impressed. I see some little things that he does wrong, I don't think he's as good as Peyton mechanically or Tom Brady, but he doesn't deserve to be compared to them over and over. He's his own guy and what I saw from him this year was a guy that good handle the most extreme pressures from the offseason, all the way to the Super Bowl.If you're not impressed with that, then you won't be, ever. To sit back and say well he'll do this or that next year is lame.You don't have to like Eli Manning, but you have to give him his due if you're an objective person.As far as a NFL QB, he's done something Tony Romo didn't do and that's lead his team to a SB. IMO, the Giants were no better than Dallas this year to say the least but yet they got the job done, largely due to him.

Great post, I think allot of us were trying to say this but couldn't express it like you did.