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Endangered Vandal Makes Tenement Worthy Of Historical Register? What To Do About Banksy and Public and Private Property (1 Viewer)

rockaction

Footballguy
So I recently was in Malaga, Spain (look at me!) which has a heavy influx of British tourists and expats. It's a by a beach area, and the weather is utterly beautiful, making it a travel destination and a relocation one for folks from the UK.

That said, while I was there, they had an unauthorized Banksy exhibit at one of the fine arts universities in the city. It was curated from the private collections of those that had purchased or come across his art. So, I went. Had to see it. It was cool. But -- and here's why this is in the political forum rather than in the main one -- what was most interesting were not his prints or pieces, but his actual unauthorized and illegal graffiti. There were actual walls at the exhibit, though there were only two of those. But there were tastefully done videos and reproductions. So that got me to thinking about the notion of property, both public and private. At what point does all property become available to any member of the public to do what he or she will with it? Who decides? Is someone's unwanted "art" that makes your property worth millions somehow not to be appreciated or tolerated? Is it unjust enrichment? What exactly in the hell do we do with an artist like Banksy?

Anyway, I was thinking about this and I really have no good answers. I'd love to say that private property exists as a natural right because it has been self-evidently so, but what of the utile concerns of the allocation of property? I mean, there's no doubt -- in my mind -- that an artist like this makes our world a better place, but to allow what he does is so fraught with analogous extensions and general problems with line-drawing that there's just no good way to logically deal with it. I mean, we know what he does increases our quality of living tenfold, but how do we reconcile that with the public and/or private right of the sanctity of property?

So it got me to dealing with the notion or property faithfully. I'd post pics of the exhibit, but I'm still unsure how to use imgur to upload stuff -- suffice it to say, you can google a lot of his work and come away with an accurate picture of what you're dealing with.

What say you about incredibly executed graffiti and what it means for property? Can we develop a standard, or is this just something sui generis that we deal with? 

Peace.

 
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Very interesting question. And I don't have a very good answer. I mean it almost has to be on a case by case eye of the beholder standard right? But that seems kind of like a cop out. 

 
Very interesting question. And I don't have a very good answer. I mean it almost has to be on a case by case eye of the beholder standard right? But that seems kind of like a cop out
I keep trying to draw a bright line and I keep coming up with more questions for my own questions. I honestly don't think anything is a cop out. It seems like an incredibly complex issue that I don't have a really good theoretically consistent answer for. Thanks for commenting and reading. 

 
There’s a rotten story from NO I’ll share with you. A guy - truly an appalling person and I won’t get into why but I’ll just tell you this is a small town - who basically is the biggest private hotel owner in town and also owns loads of private property, took the side wall off a building that had a Banksy piece. He took that wall - public art - and he put it in one of his hotels, thereby making it private art. 

 
Banksy is a rare phenomenon. I don’t think the rules should be adjusted to reflect him. 

As a commercial property manager I have very strong views on this subject. 99.99% of graffiti is ugly, dirty crap, and no different in my mind from someone who chooses to leave excrement  on your property. It’s a hassle to clean, it ruins paint jobs and windows, and I wish the punishment for the cowards who do this stuff was a lot stronger. 

 
There’s a rotten story from NO I’ll share with you. A guy - truly an appalling person and I won’t get into why but I’ll just tell you this is a small town - who basically is the biggest private hotel owner in town and also owns loads of private property, took the side wall off a building that had a Banksy piece. He took that wall - public art - and he put it in one of his hotels, thereby making it private art. 
I have to say that I thought about that as I was seeing the collection. There were two pieces off of walls and it struck me about ownership and exactly the point you're bringing up. As, I've been indicating, I had so many questions and really didn't know how to answer them. I'm not so sure it's rotten what the owner did; I'll say that. 

 
Regarding windows- in recent years these thugs scratch their graffiti into windows. It ruins them. They have to be replaced. There’s stuff you can buy to try to protect the windows but it’s not real effective. It’s truly awful. 

 
Banksy is a rare phenomenon. I don’t think the rules should be adjusted to reflect him. 

As a commercial property manager I have very strong views on this subject. 99.99% of graffiti is ugly, dirty crap, and no different in my mind from someone who chooses to leave excrement  on your property. It’s a hassle to clean, it ruins paint jobs and windows, and I wish the punishment for the cowards who do this stuff was a lot stronger. 
Yes. And after seeing Barcelona, it was quite a change to see Malaga's Banksy exhibit. What tarnished an otherwise beautiful city in Barcelona (and Rome) was high art here. I can totally understand what you're saying. Late dusk in Barcelona was so different from both its day and night when the shops weren't shuttered and graffiti-laden.

Florence had no graffiti issue and was probably the most beautiful city I've ever seen. 

The part where Banksy is a rare phenomenon is what calls all the rules into question when it comes to ownership, public spaces, happiness, etc.

 
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Regarding windows- in recent years these thugs scratch their graffiti into windows. It ruins them. They have to be replaced. There’s stuff you can buy to try to protect the windows but it’s not real effective. It’s truly awful. 
I loathe that. Gas stations and pumps are now specifically targeted so that little would-be gangs can inscribe their incomprehensible #### all over the place; even in prefab suburbs.

 
Yes. And after seeing Barcelona, it was quite a change to see Malaga's Banksy exhibit. What tarnished an otherwise beautiful city in Barcelona (and Rome) was high art here. I can totally understand what you're saying. Late dusk in Barcelona was so different from both its day and night when the shops weren't shuttered and graffiti-laden.

Florence had no graffiti issue and was probably the most beautiful city I've ever seen. 
I will be in all those cities in August. Can’t wait. But- I know it’s hot; how is the humidity? 

 
I have to say that I thought about that as I was seeing the collection. There were two pieces off of walls and it struck me about ownership and exactly the point you're bringing up. As, I've been indicating, I had so many questions and really didn't know how to answer them. I'm not so sure it's rotten what the owner did; I'll say that. 
Right, sorry, he’s rotten, I’ll think about whether what he did is rotten. But actually I’m rather inclined to say it is. This is public art meant by the artist to be for the public - and it really does make things more beautiful. 

 
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I will be in all those cities in August. Can’t wait. But- I know it’s hot; how is the humidity? 
We missed the heat and caught eighty degree temperatures with a slight breeze. Florence was supposed to hit mid hundreds and Barcelona was supposed to hit 110 degrees Fahrenheit the days we left each city.

Just fortunate for us -- I don't do well in the heat. I also do not know about the humidity because my experience is so limited.

 
Banksy is a rare phenomenon. I don’t think the rules should be adjusted to reflect him. 

As a commercial property manager I have very strong views on this subject. 99.99% of graffiti is ugly, dirty crap, and no different in my mind from someone who chooses to leave excrement  on your property. It’s a hassle to clean, it ruins paint jobs and windows, and I wish the punishment for the cowards who do this stuff was a lot stronger. 
So when it damages your property it isnt racist to arrest them right? 

 
Right, sorry, he’s rotten, I’ll think about whether what he did is rotten. But actually I’m rather inclined to say it is. This is public art meant by the artist to be god the public - and it really does make things more beautiful
Yeah, it does make things rather interesting to look at, especially since it seems that most of where Banksy operates isn't necessarily in the nicer areas of town. Perhaps that's too broad a generalization and I'm not familiar enough with his work; it just seems like he takes run-down areas and turns them into a different sort of space. 

I think that if the owner were to have the graffiti removed, that would be one thing. To take it down and display it as a private piece strikes me as the ultimate of co-opting actions. It does the public no good and serves merely to increase the amour-propre gone awry which might come along with owning property that has a piece of art on it.

 
And to be clear -- I only found some of Banksy's work to be space-improving. Some of it was indeed bordering on mere graffiti and/or the sociopolitical aspect of the work was so overt as to bring it out of the realm of art and into the realm of comment, which might be alternatively served in essay form. It just wouldn't be as visceral that way. It can border on the heckler's veto, only regarding private or public property. 

So that brought up another problem.

But what do you guys think about the distinction of public and private property? Do you feel any differently if he bestows his pieces upon publicly-funded lands as opposed to private ones? Which is better or worse, in your opinions?

 
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I also think we should distinguish  between gang signs and graffiti art. They are very different things. I have seen some beautiful work and I'll never have a clue who the artist is. And then I have seen what Tim is describing and yes it's ugly and basically destructive. And we must remember the best art brings out strong emotions. Sometimes it will make you angry or sad. Sometimes joyful. So even art as commentary is art and expressing that commentary in that medium brings a different perspective. 

 
But what do you guys think about the distinction of public and private property? Do you feel any differently if he bestows his pieces upon publicly-funded lands as opposed to private ones? Which is better or worse, in your opinions?
Private property is private property- But Banksy knows this right? It puts the onus on the property owner. To be frank it likely increases the value of whatever it goes on.  

IMO unused private property is best. I do think art on public property is good but in my experience at least here the interference of politicians and cronies makes the decision making and results horrendous.

 
Thread title changed because of SID and research into New Orleans. It got me thinking about the EPA, species, and endangerment of that which we consider precious to the human experience.

Reclaiming property from the private to the public, as it were.

 
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Racist? Why would you bring up race? 
You serious clark?

The guy that preaches about institutional racism wants stricter punishments enforced for crimes that affect him. Punishment that would be disproportionately weighted against minorities and you dont see some hypocrisy there?

 
It's not referenced in the thread but the title raises the issue of what happens if a piece of public art becomes so beloved or deemed valuable that the building gets put on the historic register or something similar? Then a building could not be torn down or that part altered. - However if that happens the building is almost certain to have gained far greater value as a result of the art.

I also question the value of Banksy art itself off the street and in a private gallery. the art isn't that great. It's fascinating and beautiful in a public sphere but loses almost all its context in a private gallery or space.

 
It's not referenced in the thread but the title raises the issue of what happens if a piece of public art becomes so beloved or deemed valuable that the building gets put on the historic register or something similar? Then a building could not be torn down or that part altered. - However if that happens the building is almost certain to have gained far greater value as a result of the art.

I also question the value of Banksy art itself off the street and in a private gallery. the art isn't that great. It's fascinating and beautiful in a public sphere but loses almost all its context in a private gallery or space.
Yeah, I'm talking about hypothetical circumstances here. The new title was caused by some of the stories I'm reading about his public sphere art. It's not a literal title, it's more of a what-if scenario...

You know me. My mind is asking questions that take about five or so assumptions and other questions to get there. But your note about New Orleans's reaction to his art spurred me to do a little digging. One building owner hired armed guards to defend his work, per the source listed in the second post I made. 

IMHO, you're exactly right about the Banksy art itself. It is not as impressive in a gallery. Its sociopolitical context is its allure; its use of public space to beautify or to comment upon the prevailing condition under which the art is made is the absolute crux of its effectiveness.

That's why his art implicates the political and social notion of private and public property so viscerally, so effectively.

 
You serious clark?

The guy that preaches about institutional racism wants stricter punishments enforced for crimes that affect him. Punishment that would be disproportionately weighted against minorities and you dont see some hypocrisy there?
Your argument makes no sense whatsoever. 

Punishment for almost all crime is disproportionately weighted against minorities, because minorities (especially blacks and Latinos) tend to have less economic opportunities and and come from poorer backgrounds. These are issues that we a society need to address, but that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t make crimes illegal or merit out punishment as needed. 

Institutionalized racism comes in when minorities are harassed by law enforcement or treated as suspicious, or if they are given longer sentences than white people for similar crimes. All of this occurs on a regular basis and needs to be fought against. 

But none of these things has anything to do with graffiti. I hate to tell you, “clark”, but there are plenty of white punks who engage in graffiti. Little teenage jerks who do this for kicks. 

 

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