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ESPN 30 for 30: O.J. Made in America (1 Viewer)

[scooter] said:
There's evidence of the narcissism all the way back to the USC days. Maybe the only reason he didn't beat his first wife was because she followed orders and behaved the way he wanted her to behave? Also, part of the reason that he beat Nicole was because he was jealous and afraid she would cheat on him. Maybe he was never concerned about his first wife cheating on him because she wasn't as attractive as Nicole was?
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Beauty is subjective but I think his first wife, Marguerite was beautiful in her youth. Nicole was overrated and looked old IMO. 

OJ being the Tom he was probably thought differently. In fact, I know he thought differently since he cheated onMarguerite with Nicole. 

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Both whites and blacks, on the whole, have become more certain of his guilt over the past 20 years. I think more than 90% of whites now think he did it, and more than 50% of blacks now think so as well.
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I think AC did it.

 
Juror 9 is a disgrace. 

Shipp got it. He is sick about this to this day.  

As dark as the King verdict was.......this was far darker. A murderer was acquitted when the evidence clearly showed it is was him.

And Judge Ito was a ####### hack of a judge who let this trail go out of control......what a tool. They did not even go into him at all in this documentary.

 
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The crew of lowlifes OJ fell in with might have been worse than Juror #9.  What a bunch of rats.  I actually felt bad for him watching him come undone.  

 
Todem said:
Juror 9 is a disgrace. 

Shipp got it. He is sick about this to this day.  

As dark as the King verdict was.......this was far darker. A murderer was acquitted when the evidence clearly shoed is was him.

And Judge Ito was a ####### hack of a judge who let this trail go out of control......what a tool. They did not even go into him at all in this documentary.
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Ito was definitely a famewhore.

 
cockroach said:
Maybe you missed on the tapes where he said he'd love to kill people and he thought he was god. 
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I think his lawsuit was pretty telling. It sounds to me like back then being an L.A. cop could be pretty warping, even to the good guys, and maybe even good cops got corrupted by the extremely screwed up law enforcement/gang subculture. Thing is, my understanding is that that stuff, a cop's views, don't ever get put into trial. Maybe a cop's work history in terms of abuse claims, or internal investigations, but that's it. And how was Fuhrman any different than any other LA cop or investigator. It seemed to me that given the times they nearly all inevitably had to have been warped by the environment. Using Ito's rule there probably isn't a crime that could be convicted in LA if every cop's statements were to be put under a microscope. - In the final analysis I think the Fuhrman tapes never should have been admitted. Really all that matters is the facts and the evidence. But once that happened and Fuhrman's POV was allowed in any chance of a fair trial for Nicole's family and the prosecution was over.

 
Really well done. I don't understand how anyone could watch that and think OJ didn't do it. Really sad how it turned into a civil rights case instead of a murder case. The African-American community got played big time by Cochran and Co.

 
I was especially appalled by Douglas at the end talking about how OJ got beat in the "5th Quarter" in Vegas.

I mean, after what OJ got away with the first time with his help??  Joe Bell calling it "white man's justice" is also bad, but Joe was OJs childhood friend and probably legitimately thinks OJ didn't do it.

Douglas has to know OJ did it.  He sat in that courtroom and heard the evidence and saw those pictures.

I can understand the anger over the Rodney King incident, but Rodney King lived.  

 
saintsfan said:
I was especially appalled by Douglas at the end talking about how OJ got beat in the "5th Quarter" in Vegas.

I mean, after what OJ got away with the first time with his help??  Joe Bell calling it "white man's justice" is also bad, but Joe was OJs childhood friend and probably legitimately thinks OJ didn't do it.

Douglas has to know OJ did it.  He sat in that courtroom and heard the evidence and saw those pictures.

I can understand the anger over the Rodney King incident, but Rodney King lived.  
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Douglas and Cochran are/were racists. Plain and simple. Call it like it is. This trail was a civil rights trial.....not a murder trial. It was a fiasco of the highest degree. And the prosecution and Judge Ito are very much at blame here. Both were incompetent and I feel so much sympathy for both families. They were railroaded. No justice at all for the victims families and OJ's two children who will never have a mother ever again. Those kids.....I wonder what they think?

 
saintsfan said:
I can understand the anger over the Rodney King incident, but Rodney King lived.  
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Many didn't and if not for that video many more could have died at the hands of police without the thought of ANY consequence

To black people, this wasn't about Rodney King, this was about the injustices, police brutality and racism their mother, father, sister, uncle, cousin and son feel every single day of their lives on the streets of LA. 
If you remember that anger and pure hatred you felt when you saw those 4 black guys pull Denny out of his truck, stomp on his head beat the crap out of him and crush his head in with bricks and a fire extinguisher?

That was brutal and I was just wishing another truck would come buy and run those 4 dudes over leaving their blood and guts all over the streets.

I could only imagine that being the type of anger black folks might feel every day....towards cops, seeing and dealing with some of the crap they must have seen and still see.

Alright, I met my representational quota for the day for being the honorary spokesman for the black community 

 
comfortably numb said:
Many didn't and if not for that video many more could have died at the hands of police without the thought of ANY consequence

To black people, this wasn't about Rodney King, this was about the injustices, police brutality and racism their mother, father, sister, uncle, cousin and son feel every single day of their lives on the streets of LA. 
If you remember that anger and pure hatred you felt when you saw those 4 black guys pull Denny out of his truck, stomp on his head beat the crap out of him and crush his head in with bricks and a fire extinguisher?

That was brutal and I was just wishing another truck would come buy and run those 4 dudes over leaving their blood and guts all over the streets.

I could only imagine that being the type of anger black folks might feel every day....towards cops, seeing and dealing with some of the crap they must have seen and still see.

Alright, I met my representational quota for the day for being the honorary spokesman for the black community 
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You make some very good points.  Do you believe OJ was guilty of murder?  If so, if you were on the jury would you have voted him guilty?

 
Gachi said:
OJ is a whack job. I think he has narcissistic personality disorder. 

How do you guys feel about the brain damage theory? 

His first wife claims he was never violent and she was actually one of his biggest supporters during the trial. 
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I would look into how much support she was getting from OJ before I gave any credit to her.  She just may have a vested interest.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
In the final analysis I think the Fuhrman tapes never should have been admitted. Really all that matters is the facts and the evidence. But once that happened and Fuhrman's POV was allowed in any chance of a fair trial for Nicole's family and the prosecution was over.
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He was asked if he planted evidence in this case and he plead the 5th

 
cockroach said:
He was asked if he planted evidence in this case and he plead the 5th
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Fuhrman said in the doc interview that he pleaded the 5th on all questions because he was told if he answered any one question, he'd have to answer them all.  I figured he didn't say "no" to the question of planting evidence because he didn't want to open himself back up to the other questions.  

 
Jayrok said:
Fuhrman said in the doc interview that he pleaded the 5th on all questions because he was told if he answered any one question, he'd have to answer them all.  I figured he didn't say "no" to the question of planting evidence because he didn't want to open himself back up to the other questions.  
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Yea, he said that... but it's only true if you are the DEFENDANT.  As a witness he can plead the 5th or answer on any question he wants.  I'm sure such a decorated detective knew that.  

 
Todem said:
Juror 9 is a disgrace. 

Shipp got it. He is sick about this to this day.  

As dark as the King verdict was.......this was far darker. A murderer was acquitted when the evidence clearly shoed is was him.

And Judge Ito was a ####### hack of a judge who let this trail go out of control......what a tool. They did not even go into him at all in this documentary.
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Bruno Magli?

 
cockroach said:
Yea, he said that... but it's only true if you are the DEFENDANT.  As a witness he can plead the 5th or answer on any question he wants.  I'm sure such a decorated detective knew that.  
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well, he should have said "no" there, then.  But you see him look as to consult his lawyer there beside him after each question.  Guess he didn't know what to say or wanted to make sure he got it right.  They battered him pretty good up there.  

 
cockroach said:
They were lining up with "Free OJ" signs before OJ even hired a lawyer. 
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To the defense of many blacks and whites in those early moments.
The initial response at the time IIRC was, there is NO way OJ was capable of this.

Imagine Russell Wilson being being a cold blooded savage.
Just doesn't seem to fit the image of what you know of Wilson

 
After the verdict, they should have put OJ, defense lawyers, Ito, the jury, the civil rights guy from the documentary, the woman who released the tapes, fuhrman, & people who cheered him on from the overpasses on the interstate in a boat in the middle of the ocean and sunk it.

 
cockroach said:
IDK about the glove, but Maurille Tremblay, in the FX OJ show thread, brought up some blood evidence forensics that heavily hinted towards planting.  I think OJ did it though.
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I didn't read MT's post so I don't know.  I do believe the crime scene was contaminated by the collection of evidence process.  What a circus that was.  Huge mistakes made.  

 
Todem said:
@Jayrok,

Cockroach thinks OJ was framed and did not butcher Ron and Nicole.
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He said he believes OJ did it.  I honestly don't see how anyone could say OJ didn't do it.  He essentially confessed to one of his friends, according to the documentary.  

 
Don't Noonan said:
You make some very good points.  Do you believe OJ was guilty of murder?  If so, if you were on the jury would you have voted him guilty?
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Not asked of me but I believe O.J. did it but if I was a juror in that trial I would've voted Not Guilty and it would have been easy call. I think the prosecution bungled that slam-dunk case in about a million different ways. Throw in lying cops and bumbling forensics and Not Guilty is the only verdict I could reasonably come up with given the way the case was presented. 

 
Jayrok said:
I didn't read MT's post so I don't know.  I do believe the crime scene was contaminated by the collection of evidence process.  What a circus that was.  Huge mistakes made.  
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Majorly contaminated.  Covering her with the blanket?!? That is just so incredibly stupid.  Some of the forensic and DNA testing we take for granted today was still pretty young then, but still.

 
Yep...so many incredible mistakes, too many to count. OJ had Barry Sheck who IMO won the case overall from the scientific side in creating some doubt with contamination. But Johhny was a scum and slime of the highest order in how he used race to shred the LAPD. And while the LAPD had a horrid reputation.....the focus of this not being a murder trial to putting the LAPD and Prosecution office on trial was an absolute travesty of justice for the victims families.

Just tragic. An black eye on our justice system. The brutality of the murders and the obvious sociopath/psychopath OJ getting away with it. Just so incredible he got away with a double murder with so much physical evidence against him....everywhere. A huge botch job by the police and prosecution team.

 
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Yeah that cop that covered Nicole with the blanket was a moron.  But how about the cop that took the blood samples of OJ from the lab OUT TO the crime scene?!?  WTF?  

 
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Todem said:
Or how about going back to the crime scene with a vial of OJ's blood?

####### idiot. Who does that??
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I had edited my post to include that, before I read your post.  Wasn't that Vannatter?  Why in the world would he do that?  

 
Todem said:
Yep...so many incredible mistakes, too many to count. OJ had Barry Sheck who IMO won the case overall from the scientific side in creating some doubt with contamination. But Johhny was a scum, slime of the highest order in how he used race to shred the LAPD. And while the LAPD had a horrid reputation.....the focus of this not being a murder trial to putting the LAPD and Prosecution office on trial was an absolute travesty of justice for the victims families.

Just tragic. An black eye on our justice system. The brutality of the murders and the obvious sociopath/psychopath OJ getting away with it. Just so incredible he got away with a double murder with so much physical evidence against him....everywhere. A huge botch job by the police and prosecution team.
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After hearing some of them saying it was a payback for the R. King thing, I just shook my head.  I wondered how acquitting OJ for double homicide somehow gets back at the LAPD.. or how it somehow settles racial tensions by "evening the score" in LA.  When those thugs pulled the white truck driver out and beat him silly during the R. King riots, I thought that was payback.  

 
Todem said:
Yep...so many incredible mistakes, too many to count. OJ had Barry Sheck who IMO won the case overall from the scientific side in creating some doubt with contamination. But Johhny was a scum, slime of the highest order in how he used race to shred the LAPD. And while the LAPD had a horrid reputation.....the focus of this not being a murder trial to putting the LAPD and Prosecution office on trial was an absolute travesty of justice for the victims families.

Just tragic. An black eye on our justice system. The brutality of the murders and the obvious sociopath/psychopath OJ getting away with it. Just so incredible he got away with a double murder with so much physical evidence against him....everywhere. A huge botch job by the police and prosecution team.
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He turned Dennis Fung into a slobbering pile of goo on the witness stand. Case was over after that. Prosecution never recovered from it. For all the accolades Cochoran got, Scheck was the real MVP of the defense team. They don't win the case without him IMO. 

 
comfortably numb said:
To the defense of many blacks and whites in those early moments.
The initial response at the time IIRC was, there is NO way OJ was capable of this.

Imagine Russell Wilson being being a cold blooded savage.
Just doesn't seem to fit the image of what you know of Wilson
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Used a similar analogy with Peyton Manning. 

I distinctly remember flat out hero worshiping OJ back in the 70s when I was a kid.  I wouldn't eat any other ice cream other than Rocky Road because I read in "Dynamite" magazine that it was The Juice's favorite.  When the murder story broke, I was in the "no way in hell is he guilty" camp.  Oooof.

 
Statorama said:
Used a similar analogy with Peyton Manning. 

I distinctly remember flat out hero worshiping OJ back in the 70s when I was a kid.  I wouldn't eat any other ice cream other than Rocky Road because I read in "Dynamite" magazine that it was The Juice's favorite.  When the murder story broke, I was in the "no way in hell is he guilty" camp.  Oooof.
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Same here. I could not believe it when it first broke. I really liked OJ too. I only knew him as "The juice" and that persona he had created. I never knew the behind the curtain life nor the domestic violence stuff (was really young back then like in my teen years and I did not pay attention to all that stuff and we did not have a 24/7 news cycle back then). The Bronco Chase though really made me question everything but still, I was thinking maybe something was amiss. But once the case really started and the details of he evidence were being made known, all the blood, and DNA evidence. Crystal clear he was the one responsible for this brutal double murder.

 
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