Espn reporting Goodell confirmed Patriots using camera (1 Viewer)

[David Yudkin]

I really want to know what goes on with those radio signals.

I think you and many others may be left disppointed in this whole thing. I doubt the league will provide many details only to say that they completed their investigation and the penalty is X, Y, Z and leave it at that. IMO, the more of this that gets reviewed and attended to behind closed doors, the better for the league. When the league has to start policing itself is when the P.R. gets to be all bad, IMO. If the Pats get reamed on this one, you can bet the team will hire a team of people to dig up dirt on all the other franchises and will be giving regular updates to the league office on what everyone else is doing. Maybe we will enter an era of tattletailing.

 

[Gr00vus]

Are you comparing the maiming and torturing of dogs with some guy videotaping some guys fingers?

I don't think he is - torturing/killing dogs doesn't directly affect the outcome of NFL games. Even though there are definitely serious character flaws involved in both transgressions, conflating the two would be a mistake for what should be obvious reasons.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I really want to know what goes on with those radio signals.

If the Pats get reamed on this one, you can bet the team will hire a team of people to dig up dirt on all the other franchises and will be giving regular updates to the league office on what everyone else is doing. Maybe we will enter an era of tattletailing.

Not if they instructed to "let it drop" and "move on".

 

[1huskerfan]

Even if Brady were involved, I also don't see how anyone could prove it.

I agree. And I see that as a negative for Brady in terms of how his career would be perceived IF the infractions plumb the lowest possible depths. He'll be forever soiled with the residue of this in the minds of many people. Even if he didn't explicitly know about the cheating, he'd definitely be a primary beneficiary and his accomplishments will be called into question, as will the accomplishments of the Pats in general.

I think plenty of people hate him already for his ability to date women that the rest of the real world can only hope to see on screen or in lingerie catalogs.I see this entire situation getting blown out of proportion at this stage and like most other things once it is resolved it will go away and years from now this whole story will be nothing more than a footnote to Brady's career.

Wow, did we get sucked back into the Vick threads? Sure looks that way.

Are you comparing the maiming and torturing of dogs with some guy videotaping some guys fingers?

You've missed the thread where he compared it paying off the refs, poisoning the opponent, and taking a lead pipe to your opponent. Credibility all around us.

 

[BlackHole]

You can't punish based on speculation. Prove to me:A. They filmed anyone else. B. They used that film to gain an advantage.

?? I don't have to do anything.If the NFL investigates, they will investigate other allegations that the Pats did similar things last year. You are being obtuse to ignore that and to ask me to prove something to you.

Ok well you are being acute in your analyzation of the facts. I know you want this to go down so badly, at least it appears as much for the last 600 pages, but regardless there is nothing of substance here aside from one incident. Everything else is speculation. I'm sure they will investigate everything but when it comes down to it, you have an organization with a previously squeaky clean image who broke one rule that can be justifiably proven. The rest is conjecture and sour grapes.

pure comedy.

I'm glad it amuses you. Get some popcorn.

Take the blinders off Pats fans, Mangini already sold out the patriots for doing this in the past. This is not a one time incident. Shoot, even BB's statement " Earlier this week, I spoke with Commissioner Goodell about a videotaping procedure during last Sunday's game and my interpretation of the rules." make it sound like a SOP (standard operating procedure) of the team.SMU them, and I don't mean Smoo either.

 

[Marc Levin]

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to see a very in depth investigation to see how deep the alleged cheating goes.

I'd be shocked if they dwelt too long or deep on this. And, if they do, you and I won't hear about it. What incentive does Goddall have to make a huge issue out of this? It smears the game and smears the best organization the game has had over the last 7 years.He wants this punished swiftly, approproately, and then back to the game of football.

Dispute it and back it up with defense of a better organization.The face of the players is also very good - until last year, they were squeaky clean. Never gave bulletin board fodder, always said the right things, etc.

Oh come on, BB has always had a rep for being a jackass and he runs that team his way. Now they are being investigated for cheating over at least part of that span.

BB's a jackass, but his players are always stand up-ish in public. And as far as a great organization, their drafts and FA moves always seem to be gold, they win games and championships, and Robert Kraft has evolved into a fan-oriented and well respected owner.Not sure what you want - BB is a scumbag and always has been, but that organization is the class of the league And I am a die-hard Dolphin fan who absolutely hates the Jets and Pats fans, esp on "squish the fish" day.

 

[Phlash]

Even if Brady were involved, I also don't see how anyone could prove it.

I agree. And I see that as a negative for Brady in terms of how his career would be perceived IF the infractions plumb the lowest possible depths. He'll be forever soiled with the residue of this in the minds of many people. Even if he didn't explicitly know about the cheating, he'd definitely be a primary beneficiary and his accomplishments will be called into question, as will the accomplishments of the Pats in general.

I think plenty of people hate him already for his ability to date women that the rest of the real world can only hope to see on screen or in lingerie catalogs.I see this entire situation getting blown out of proportion at this stage and like most other things once it is resolved it will go away and years from now this whole story will be nothing more than a footnote to Brady's career.

Wow, did we get sucked back into the Vick threads? Sure looks that way.

Are you comparing the maiming and torturing of dogs with some guy videotaping some guys fingers?

Nope, just DYs take on both of scenarios.

Alright, fair enough.

 

[jonessed]

I really want to know what goes on with those radio signals.

I think you and many others may be left disppointed in this whole thing. I doubt the league will provide many details only to say that they completed their investigation and the penalty is X, Y, Z and leave it at that. IMO, the more of this that gets reviewed and attended to behind closed doors, the better for the league. When the league has to start policing itself is when the P.R. gets to be all bad, IMO. If the Pats get reamed on this one, you can bet the team will hire a team of people to dig up dirt on all the other franchises and will be giving regular updates to the league office on what everyone else is doing. Maybe we will enter an era of tattletailing.

If tattletailing = outing cheaters I don't see what the problem is.

 

[Gr00vus]

I really want to know what goes on with those radio signals.

I think you and many others may be left disppointed in this whole thing. I doubt the league will provide many details only to say that they completed their investigation and the penalty is X, Y, Z and leave it at that. IMO, the more of this that gets reviewed and attended to behind closed doors, the better for the league. When the league has to start policing itself is when the P.R. gets to be all bad, IMO. If the Pats get reamed on this one, you can bet the team will hire a team of people to dig up dirt on all the other franchises and will be giving regular updates to the league office on what everyone else is doing. Maybe we will enter an era of tattletailing.

You're probably right about the dirty laundry staying in the hamper.Which is why I think there will be riders on this decision that state how the league will crack down on potential retaliatory tattle tailing. The goal here will be for the league image to be untarnished, I'd imagine there will be a zero tolerance policy for sour grapes #####ing once the punishment is meted out for this one.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Even if Brady were involved, I also don't see how anyone could prove it.

I agree. And I see that as a negative for Brady in terms of how his career would be perceived IF the infractions plumb the lowest possible depths. He'll be forever soiled with the residue of this in the minds of many people. Even if he didn't explicitly know about the cheating, he'd definitely be a primary beneficiary and his accomplishments will be called into question, as will the accomplishments of the Pats in general.

I think plenty of people hate him already for his ability to date women that the rest of the real world can only hope to see on screen or in lingerie catalogs.I see this entire situation getting blown out of proportion at this stage and like most other things once it is resolved it will go away and years from now this whole story will be nothing more than a footnote to Brady's career.

Wow, did we get sucked back into the Vick threads? Sure looks that way.

Are you comparing the maiming and torturing of dogs with some guy videotaping some guys fingers?

You've missed the thread where he compared it paying off the refs, poisoning the opponent, and taking a lead pipe to your opponent. Credibility all around us.

Yes, I was comparing cheating with cheating. Through the use of "outside the line's" measures. Deal wit' it.

 

[roadkill1292]

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to see a very in depth investigation to see how deep the alleged cheating goes.

I'd be shocked if they dwelt too long or deep on this. And, if they do, you and I won't hear about it. What incentive does Goddall have to make a huge issue out of this? It smears the game and smears the best organization the game has had over the last 7 years.He wants this punished swiftly, approproately, and then back to the game of football.

You make a good point, and you're probably right. But sometimes "bad press" is still good press, and this has all the ingredients for sensational soap-opera news. The big question is whether or not it would bring eyeballs or divert them... not whether the NFL really wants to enforce the alleged cheating issue.

</The Arthurian knight inside me is wounded deeply >

Regardless of the outcome, this doesn't hurt the league at all. Fans like us love controversies like this. It's our soap opera.

 

[jonessed]

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to see a very in depth investigation to see how deep the alleged cheating goes.

I'd be shocked if they dwelt too long or deep on this. And, if they do, you and I won't hear about it. What incentive does Goddall have to make a huge issue out of this? It smears the game and smears the best organization the game has had over the last 7 years.He wants this punished swiftly, approproately, and then back to the game of football.

Dispute it and back it up with defense of a better organization.The face of the players is also very good - until last year, they were squeaky clean. Never gave bulletin board fodder, always said the right things, etc.

Oh come on, BB has always had a rep for being a jackass and he runs that team his way. Now they are being investigated for cheating over at least part of that span.

BB's a jackass, but his players are always stand up-ish in public. And as far as a great organization, their drafts and FA moves always seem to be gold, they win games and championships, and Robert Kraft has evolved into a fan-oriented and well respected owner.Not sure what you want - BB is a scumbag and always has been, but that organization is the class of the league And I am a die-hard Dolphin fan who absolutely hates the Jets and Pats fans, esp on "squish the fish" day.

I don't see how you can have a class organization when the team is run by a jackass.

 

[1huskerfan]

Even if Brady were involved, I also don't see how anyone could prove it.

I agree. And I see that as a negative for Brady in terms of how his career would be perceived IF the infractions plumb the lowest possible depths. He'll be forever soiled with the residue of this in the minds of many people. Even if he didn't explicitly know about the cheating, he'd definitely be a primary beneficiary and his accomplishments will be called into question, as will the accomplishments of the Pats in general.

I think plenty of people hate him already for his ability to date women that the rest of the real world can only hope to see on screen or in lingerie catalogs.I see this entire situation getting blown out of proportion at this stage and like most other things once it is resolved it will go away and years from now this whole story will be nothing more than a footnote to Brady's career.

Wow, did we get sucked back into the Vick threads? Sure looks that way.

Are you comparing the maiming and torturing of dogs with some guy videotaping some guys fingers?

You've missed the thread where he compared it paying off the refs, poisoning the opponent, and taking a lead pipe to your opponent. Credibility all around us.

Yes, I was comparing cheating with cheating. Through the use of "outside the line's" measures. Deal wit' it.

Pretty sure you said this was just as bad or worse. Keep up the hyperbole.

 

[Franknbeans]

It will be interesting to hear Peter King's take on this. He has been tongue bathing the Pats for years now

 

[Shrek]

I think this rule is terrible Seriously, isn't obtaining signs called "gamesmanship"? In baseball, part of the game is to try to steal the other team's signs which is exactly why MLB teams change them every single series! I realize that there is a rule against this, but comeon already! If you don't want someone figuring out your signs, change em'

Heck, I remember one of these shows on ESPN and it was about the GB superbowl run with Favre at the helm. He knew that SF knew his signals so he called for an audible to a particular pattern for his WR. Of course, the WR and he and already agreed to ignore the call, the Dback was sitting on the wrong route and GB gets a TD out of it!

I know that I am in the minority and so be it, but I think the NFL has gone a little overboard here. There is a rule so NE so should lose a draft pick ( 3rd rounder to try to dissuade those in the future). I have no problem punishing NE if they get caught breaking a rule, but I do think the rule itself is over the top!

Once again, for the record,THIS ISN'T BASEBALL

Nobody really cares whether you or I or your Aunt Jenny thinks the rule is over the top. Seriously. It's their rule. They didn't put it in place for no reason.

 

[dparker713]

Ok, well. I think I discovered you are the resident lawyer but I'm still going to disagree with you. We'll see how it plays out.

You can't punish based on speculation. Prove to me:

A. They filmed anyone else.

B. They used that film to gain an advantage.

Actually, the commish can punish based on pure speculation. Its completely up to his discretion. He doesnt need to prove a thing.

 

[Marc Levin]

A. and B. are both are totally irrelevant.

Are they?

all that matters is that they did it this week and were caught doing it. No one needs to prove that they did it in past seasons, it doesn't matter. They did it this season and were busted case closed. Gaining an advantage doesn't need to be proved either (although they wouldn't risk it if there was nothing to be gained).

Right which is my point exactly. The Patriots will be punished for what they were caught doing, not speculation from others, regardless of what anyone wants to believe or wants to happen.

This is not a court of law so there are no rules as to who will be consulted, what "circumstantial evidence" Goddell will use or what the penalty will be. One thing that will definitely count is if the league did in fact warn the Pats last December as has been reported and then they get busted doing this on opening day I would not want to be in BB's shoes.

Yup.And the Green Bay incident with this same photographer is well documented, including the (very good) reasons the Packers didn;'t report it at that time.BTW, whether they did this and whether they intended to cheat off of the information is an open and shut case. That BB already apologized for doing it means the league has moved on to punishment. The only investigation that needs to be made are in terms of the severity of the punishment: did they do it before and what eveidence exists that they did it before, what are the repurcusions of the different kinds of punishment, what does the team have to say in its own defense.

 

[Shrek]

Update from RotoWorld. If this is all the Pats get, that's just a slap on the wrist. Losing a third is nothing.

FOXSports.com's John Czarnecki reports the Patriots could lose a third-round pick after being caught stealing signals in regular season games.

Some around the league are pushing for the Pats to lose multiple draft choices, and strong consideration is reportedly being given to suspending coach Bill Belichick for one year. Czarnecki also says that cheating has been going on for decades in both college and pro football and that Belichick may have done it because he knows his opponents are too.

Source: FOXSports.com

And losing Belichick for a year???

Is excessive.

I'd say that is an appropriate penalty.

It's nothing. It's hardly a deterrent to prevent teams from doing it in the future. If all it will cost is a third teams should be lining up to cheat every week. I'd say they should lose two picks, including one first, and Belichick should get suspended 4 games. Goodell has been very effective in terms of sending strong messages so far in his tenure but if he lets the Patriots get off this easy (assuming they're guilty, of course) he'll have caved big time in my opinion.

?? Suspending Belichick for a year, but penalizing the team only a third-rounder, punishes the right person and keeps Kraft on the league's side without him having to come down on his own head coach for losing the team 1st round picks.I think it is the perfect solution for boththe Pats and the league.

Keep Kraft on the league's side? Kraft (i.e. the organization) should be fined in the $50k-$100k range, in addition to the draft picks and a BB suspension. He should be coming down on his coach for cheating. His fans should be coming down on the whole organization for sullying the name of their team, and not defending them. Kraft should be held accountable for his organization's gametime actions. The buck ultimately stops with him.

That won't happen. BB has brought Kraft's team to prominence. Besides, he's already made statements to the effect that this is all just a witch hunt because people are jealous of their success. Apparently the arrogance starts at the very top.

 

[Marc Levin]

Ok well you are being acute in your analyzation of the facts.

It was acute, but now it is just askanky.(thank you Jimmy Fallon for your only funny joke ever)

 

[David Yudkin]

Nope, just DYs take on both of scenarios.

I don't believe I ever said the Vick situation would blow over. All I repeated over and over was that the league was unlikely to suspend Vick for any actual games without a conviction or a plea deal as per the CBA rules, which is exactly what happened.I suppose that if there could some how be a direct link to Brady being involved that maybe the league could implement a conduct unbecoming the league clause to try to take action, but I have a hard time seeing that happening given what we think we know currently.

 

[1huskerfan]

Ok well you are being acute in your analyzation of the facts.

It was acute, but now it is just askanky.(thank you Jimmy Fallon for your only funny joke ever)

He actually had another good one a few years back. I'll have to look it up though.

 

[massraider]

Update from RotoWorld. If this is all the Pats get, that's just a slap on the wrist. Losing a third is nothing.

FOXSports.com's John Czarnecki reports the Patriots could lose a third-round pick after being caught stealing signals in regular season games.

Some around the league are pushing for the Pats to lose multiple draft choices, and strong consideration is reportedly being given to suspending coach Bill Belichick for one year. Czarnecki also says that cheating has been going on for decades in both college and pro football and that Belichick may have done it because he knows his opponents are too.

Source: FOXSports.com

And losing Belichick for a year???

Is excessive.

I'd say that is an appropriate penalty.

It's nothing. It's hardly a deterrent to prevent teams from doing it in the future. If all it will cost is a third teams should be lining up to cheat every week. I'd say they should lose two picks, including one first, and Belichick should get suspended 4 games. Goodell has been very effective in terms of sending strong messages so far in his tenure but if he lets the Patriots get off this easy (assuming they're guilty, of course) he'll have caved big time in my opinion.

?? Suspending Belichick for a year, but penalizing the team only a third-rounder, punishes the right person and keeps Kraft on the league's side without him having to come down on his own head coach for losing the team 1st round picks.I think it is the perfect solution for boththe Pats and the league.

Keep Kraft on the league's side? Kraft (i.e. the organization) should be fined in the $50k-$100k range, in addition to the draft picks and a BB suspension. He should be coming down on his coach for cheating. His fans should be coming down on the whole organization for sullying the name of their team, and not defending them. Kraft should be held accountable for his organization's gametime actions. The buck ultimately stops with him.

That won't happen. BB has brought Kraft's team to prominence. Besides, he's already made statements to the effect that this is all just a witch hunt because people are jealous of their success. Apparently the arrogance starts at the very top.

Kraft's statement was an joke, and has the potential to look very stupid.

 

[Marc Levin]

ML>hi.O/U at 20 pages was way too low.

yup.and that was just for it to drop off the front page for the first time. I was wondering if it would ge tthere before Friday since we will, at some point, start talking about games in here.ETA - it might take 20 pages before it drops from the first ten threads.

 

[1huskerfan]

ML>hi.O/U at 20 pages was way too low.

yup.and that was just for it to drop off the front page for the first time. I was wondering if it would ge tthere before Friday since we will, at some point, start talking about games in here.

Seriously though, this is bordering on FFA material.

 

[helix]

Ok, well. I think I discovered you are the resident lawyer but I'm still going to disagree with you. We'll see how it plays out.

You can't punish based on speculation. Prove to me:

A. They filmed anyone else.

B. They used that film to gain an advantage.

Actually, the commish can punish based on pure speculation. Its completely up to his discretion. He doesnt need to prove a thing.

There is a segment of posters that think the NFL is run like our court system. The concept of innocent until proven guilty does not apply here. Roger does not need to see a body to punish someone. If the commish thinks it is in the best interest of the NFL to make a certain move, he has a broad mandate to make severe rulings. Since this incident does not involve a players (and the CBA), I would not want to be in Kraft's shoes if Goodell finds the Pats at fault-

 

[Shrek]

I think they should split the Pats 3 titles up between the Jets, Raiders, and Browns since those teams have no chance in hell of winning anything on their own anytime soon. It's only fair

You are the epitome of the toolishness that started being associated with Pats fans on these boards so long ago.Great stuff. Keep it up. Eventually you're going to post something sig worthy.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

this is what happened...

they video tape the defensive signals...

the pats then go in at halftime compare the video to their eye in the sky Polaroids and then say this signal means this defense...so in the 2nd half they will know this signal means they are blitzing from the right or whatever.

then the coach calls in to Brady using the in helmet speaker/mic and gives him the hot play.

Brady doesn't have to be in on it...

i really think its probably only like 3 or 4 coaches in on the videotaping...something like this you wouldn't want everyone knowing about

Can you imagine the advantage an offense has if they know a blitz is coming from the right side leaving Moss in single coverage? You give that detailed information to a QB like Brady and it is lights out. See final score and Moss's stats against the Jets.

My opinion if the Pats are found guilty:

$250,000 Fine

Loss of a 3rd

4 game suspension for the Coach

You definitley could be right, but I think the penalty for BB should be more. If Wade Wilson gets 5 games for legally ordering a drug for his own personal health and providing exactly zero competitive advantage for his team, then BB deserves to be suspended for the year - if not for life. Goodell made it very clear when he penalized Wilson that coaches will be held to a "higher standard". Well, it doesnt get too much lower than cheating. It is certainly a far more heinous offense than what Wade Wilson did, and I would find it very hypocritical if Wilson's punishment exceeded that of BB's personal punishment. BB may not even be there next year to feel the pain of the lost draft choice. The organization deserves that penalty, but BB seems to be the main culprit here, and he should pay a very high price. He has compromised the integrity of not only himself, but also of the history books. He is a stain on this league, and a disgrace to professional sports. Do we want our youth to see a cheater on the sidelines leading their favorite team?

 

[mad sweeney]

Even if Brady were involved, I also don't see how anyone could prove it.

I agree. And I see that as a negative for Brady in terms of how his career would be perceived IF the infractions plumb the lowest possible depths. He'll be forever soiled with the residue of this in the minds of many people. Even if he didn't explicitly know about the cheating, he'd definitely be a primary beneficiary and his accomplishments will be called into question, as will the accomplishments of the Pats in general.

I think plenty of people hate him already for his ability to date women that the rest of the real world can only hope to see on screen or in lingerie catalogs.I see this entire situation getting blown out of proportion at this stage and like most other things once it is resolved it will go away and years from now this whole story will be nothing more than a footnote to Brady's career.

If they connect the extraneous radio signals to illegal transmissions into the helmet, the party's over for Brady. Whether he was knowingly complicit or not, he'll be viewed as a fraud, and what he's done will be put in a Barry Bonds context. And honestly at that point I'd be in that camp myself. It wouldn't be a footnote, it'd be a big red boldfaced asterisk.I've respected the Pats and Brady up to now. My respect for the Pats organization, and particularly the coaching staff is now gone, irrevocably so. I'd like to keep my respect for Brady, but my respect for him is on shaky ground right now - given the illegal snooping on the defensive coaches he's gained an unfair advantage - and although I think it slight, even slight advantages still matter. I really want to know what goes on with those radio signals.

I think that this is a lot like the gambling issue was to the Vick case. It's not the highly argued focus of discussion but is the one that's of more interest to league integrity. Because a lot of you are right in thinking that signals are out there for everyone to see and you can pick them up a lot without the use of the technology that's forbidden. But if there is communication going on to Brady when it isn't allowed then there's a big, big problem for the team and huge for Brady as well. Any RF violations are more likely to be viewed as the more severe of the infractions, but it gets a lot less press.

 

[Marc Levin]

Ok well you are being acute in your analyzation of the facts.

It was acute, but now it is just askanky.(thank you Jimmy Fallon for your only funny joke ever)

He actually had another good one a few years back. I'll have to look it up though.

I won't hold my breath for a second Fallon funnyHis idea of comedy is laughing like a stoned teenager at whatever Sanz is doing.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Howdy all. Just dropping by to chime in with my latest thinking / conjecture / revised prediction of outcome, and a question.

I'm thinking a #1 pick, $500M fine, and 1 game BB suspension. Stiffer than expected on pick and money impact, but not wanting to protract the issue visibility beyond a week via a multi-game suspension.

Question: does Brady call his own plays or are they called in? If he calls his own plays, this would support the notion of him knowing. If the sideline calls the plays, less likely he knew ("Hey Tom, we think you should run left. Really.").

 

[massraider]

this is what happened...

they video tape the defensive signals...

the pats then go in at halftime compare the video to their eye in the sky Polaroids and then say this signal means this defense...so in the 2nd half they will know this signal means they are blitzing from the right or whatever.

then the coach calls in to Brady using the in helmet speaker/mic and gives him the hot play.

Brady doesn't have to be in on it...

i really think its probably only like 3 or 4 coaches in on the videotaping...something like this you wouldn't want everyone knowing about

Can you imagine the advantage an offense has if they know a blitz is coming from the right side leaving Moss in single coverage? You give that detailed information to a QB like Brady and it is lights out. See final score and Moss's stats against the Jets.

My opinion if the Pats are found guilty:

$250,000 Fine

Loss of a 3rd

4 game suspension for the Coach

You definitley could be right, but I think the penalty for BB should be more. If Wade Wilson gets 5 games for legally ordering a drug for his own personal health and providing exactly zero competitive advantage for his team, then BB deserves to be suspended for the year - if not for life. Goodell made it very clear when he penalized Wilson that coaches will be held to a "higher standard".

Well, this is a darn good point.

 

[greenline]

Dear Raiders, Jets, Dolphins, Bills, Steelers, Rams, and Packers fans,

It was nice jawing with you over this topic. I don't really post here so it was mildly amusing but the number of angry and jealous fans who want Belichick strung up and finally have a reason is a little overwhelming.

I'm going to return to anonymity temporarily. See you after the verdict is served.

Patriots fan.

Note: Broncos fans don't seem as rabid about it since Denver sort of owns NE. Colts fans are at peace as well.

 

[David Yudkin]

I would not want to be in Kraft's shoes if Goodell finds the Pats at fault.

The commish is employed by the owners, and while he may have the ability to feret punishment and yield it with great wrath and great speed, it may not be in his own best interest to start pounding on franchises. Owners gave him the job and owners can also take it away. I'm not saying that he will go easy on the Pats because of this, but in the past commiches in major sports normally have not gone crazy pinishing teams (with the notable exception the Timbervolves losing A TON of first round picks).This may turn into 31 other franchises looking to jump in and turn the screws to the Patriots organization, and I don't think that's what the league wants either.

 

[massraider]

Howdy all. Just dropping by to chime in with my latest thinking / conjecture / revised prediction of outcome, and a question.I'm thinking a #1 pick, $500M fine, and 1 game BB suspension. Stiffer than expected on pick and money impact, but not wanting to protract the issue visibility beyond a week via a multi-game suspension. Question: does Brady call his own plays or are they called in? If he calls his own plays, this would support the notion of him knowing. If the sideline calls the plays, less likely he knew ("Hey Tom, we think you should run left. Really.").

$500 mill? What do they do with the money from the fine, fund Social Security?

 

[Shrek]

You can't punish based on speculation. Prove to me:A. They filmed anyone else. B. They used that film to gain an advantage.

?? I don't have to do anything.If the NFL investigates, they will investigate other allegations that the Pats did similar things last year. You are being obtuse to ignore that and to ask me to prove something to you.

Ok well you are being acute in your analyzation of the facts. I know you want this to go down so badly, at least it appears as much for the last 600 pages, but regardless there is nothing of substance here aside from one incident. Everything else is speculation. I'm sure they will investigate everything but when it comes down to it, you have an organization with a previously squeaky clean image who broke one rule that can be justifiably proven. The rest is conjecture and sour grapes.

Right. Squeaky clean. Have you not noticed that suddenly teams are coming out of the woodwork to talk about previous incidents?I love how every NE fan thinks this is all sour grapes. Again, this is not about hating NE. This about hating cheaters.

 

[phthalatemagic]

Maybe he meant 500K. 500M is like 50% of the value of most teams, right? Aren't they about 1B about now? That would sink the franchise, and there's no way they could come up with that money. Hell, I doubt most major corporations has 500M on hand.

 

[reg]

Howdy all. Just dropping by to chime in with my latest thinking / conjecture / revised prediction of outcome, and a question.I'm thinking a #1 pick, $500M fine, and 1 game BB suspension. Stiffer than expected on pick and money impact, but not wanting to protract the issue visibility beyond a week via a multi-game suspension. Question: does Brady call his own plays or are they called in? If he calls his own plays, this would support the notion of him knowing. If the sideline calls the plays, less likely he knew ("Hey Tom, we think you should run left. Really.").

$500 mill? What do they do with the money from the fine, fund Social Security?

MM = millionM = thousandedit: maybe i was confused, but I thought someone else used to post in terms like that in FFA.

 

[JohnnyU]

You definitley could be right, but I think the penalty for BB should be more. If Wade Wilson gets 5 games for legally ordering a drug for his own personal health and providing exactly zero competitive advantage for his team, then BB deserves to be suspended for the year - if not for life. Goodell made it very clear when he penalized Wilson that coaches will be held to a "higher standard".

Well, this is a darn good point.

Yep, his post might be the best post in this entire thread.

 

[shakeybarn]

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to see a very in depth investigation to see how deep the alleged cheating goes.

I'd be shocked if they dwelt too long or deep on this. And, if they do, you and I won't hear about it. What incentive does Goddall have to make a huge issue out of this? It smears the game and smears the best organization the game has had over the last 7 years.He wants this punished swiftly, approproately, and then back to the game of football.

Dispute it and back it up with defense of a better organization.The face of the players is also very good - until last year, they were squeaky clean. Never gave bulletin board fodder, always said the right things, etc.

Oh come on, BB has always had a rep for being a jackass and he runs that team his way. Now they are being investigated for cheating over at least part of that span.

BB's a jackass, but his players are always stand up-ish in public....

It's a long season, they've only had Randy for one week. Give it time.

 

[roadkill1292]

this is what happened...

they video tape the defensive signals...

the pats then go in at halftime compare the video to their eye in the sky Polaroids and then say this signal means this defense...so in the 2nd half they will know this signal means they are blitzing from the right or whatever.

then the coach calls in to Brady using the in helmet speaker/mic and gives him the hot play.

Brady doesn't have to be in on it...

i really think its probably only like 3 or 4 coaches in on the videotaping...something like this you wouldn't want everyone knowing about

Can you imagine the advantage an offense has if they know a blitz is coming from the right side leaving Moss in single coverage? You give that detailed information to a QB like Brady and it is lights out. See final score and Moss's stats against the Jets.

My opinion if the Pats are found guilty:

$250,000 Fine

Loss of a 3rd

4 game suspension for the Coach

You definitley could be right, but I think the penalty for BB should be more. If Wade Wilson gets 5 games for legally ordering a drug for his own personal health and providing exactly zero competitive advantage for his team, then BB deserves to be suspended for the year - if not for life. Goodell made it very clear when he penalized Wilson that coaches will be held to a "higher standard". Well, it doesnt get too much lower than cheating. It is certainly a far more heinous offense than what Wade Wilson did, and I would find it very hypocritical if Wilson's punishment exceeded that of BB's personal punishment. BB may not even be there next year to feel the pain of the lost draft choice. The organization deserves that penalty, but BB seems to be the main culprit here, and he should pay a very high price. He has compromised the integrity of not only himself, but also of the history books. He is a stain on this league, and a disgrace to professional sports. Do we want our youth to see a cheater on the sidelines leading their favorite team?

Think of the children!

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Again, this is not about hating NE. This about hating cheaters.

Let's compromise and say its about hating cheaters with the amazing coincidence that said hatred is being voiced by:60% Jets and Steelers fans30% Rams, Colts, Raiders, Panthers fans10% Other

 

[1huskerfan]

this is what happened...

they video tape the defensive signals...

the pats then go in at halftime compare the video to their eye in the sky Polaroids and then say this signal means this defense...so in the 2nd half they will know this signal means they are blitzing from the right or whatever.

then the coach calls in to Brady using the in helmet speaker/mic and gives him the hot play.

Brady doesn't have to be in on it...

i really think its probably only like 3 or 4 coaches in on the videotaping...something like this you wouldn't want everyone knowing about

Can you imagine the advantage an offense has if they know a blitz is coming from the right side leaving Moss in single coverage? You give that detailed information to a QB like Brady and it is lights out. See final score and Moss's stats against the Jets.

My opinion if the Pats are found guilty:

$250,000 Fine

Loss of a 3rd

4 game suspension for the Coach

You definitley could be right, but I think the penalty for BB should be more. If Wade Wilson gets 5 games for legally ordering a drug for his own personal health and providing exactly zero competitive advantage for his team, then BB deserves to be suspended for the year - if not for life. Goodell made it very clear when he penalized Wilson that coaches will be held to a "higher standard". Well, it doesnt get too much lower than cheating. It is certainly a far more heinous offense than what Wade Wilson did, and I would find it very hypocritical if Wilson's punishment exceeded that of BB's personal punishment. BB may not even be there next year to feel the pain of the lost draft choice. The organization deserves that penalty, but BB seems to be the main culprit here, and he should pay a very high price. He has compromised the integrity of not only himself, but also of the history books. He is a stain on this league, and a disgrace to professional sports. Do we want our youth to see a cheater on the sidelines leading their favorite team?

Reviewing video tape during the game > passing out HGH?

 

[massraider]

Howdy all. Just dropping by to chime in with my latest thinking / conjecture / revised prediction of outcome, and a question.I'm thinking a #1 pick, $500M fine, and 1 game BB suspension. Stiffer than expected on pick and money impact, but not wanting to protract the issue visibility beyond a week via a multi-game suspension. Question: does Brady call his own plays or are they called in? If he calls his own plays, this would support the notion of him knowing. If the sideline calls the plays, less likely he knew ("Hey Tom, we think you should run left. Really.").

$500 mill? What do they do with the money from the fine, fund Social Security?

MM = millionM = thousandedit: maybe i was confused, but I thought someone else used to post in terms like that in FFA.

Probably, could be my bad. my decoder pin is busted.

 

[Shrek]

Update from RotoWorld. If this is all the Pats get, that's just a slap on the wrist. Losing a third is nothing.

FOXSports.com's John Czarnecki reports the Patriots could lose a third-round pick after being caught stealing signals in regular season games.

Some around the league are pushing for the Pats to lose multiple draft choices, and strong consideration is reportedly being given to suspending coach Bill Belichick for one year. Czarnecki also says that cheating has been going on for decades in both college and pro football and that Belichick may have done it because he knows his opponents are too.

Source: FOXSports.com

And losing Belichick for a year???

Is excessive.

I'd say that is an appropriate penalty.

It's nothing. It's hardly a deterrent to prevent teams from doing it in the future. If all it will cost is a third teams should be lining up to cheat every week. I'd say they should lose two picks, including one first, and Belichick should get suspended 4 games. Goodell has been very effective in terms of sending strong messages so far in his tenure but if he lets the Patriots get off this easy (assuming they're guilty, of course) he'll have caved big time in my opinion.

?? Suspending Belichick for a year, but penalizing the team only a third-rounder, punishes the right person and keeps Kraft on the league's side without him having to come down on his own head coach for losing the team 1st round picks.I think it is the perfect solution for boththe Pats and the league.

Keep Kraft on the league's side? Kraft (i.e. the organization) should be fined in the $50k-$100k range, in addition to the draft picks and a BB suspension. He should be coming down on his coach for cheating. His fans should be coming down on the whole organization for sullying the name of their team, and not defending them. Kraft should be held accountable for his organization's gametime actions. The buck ultimately stops with him.

That won't happen. BB has brought Kraft's team to prominence. Besides, he's already made statements to the effect that this is all just a witch hunt because people are jealous of their success. Apparently the arrogance starts at the very top.

Kraft's statement was an joke, and has the potential to look very stupid.

Just to clarify, do you mean that he was attempting to make a joke? Or do you mean that the fact that he made the statement was ill-timed and out of place was "a joke"? Seriously, I'm just trying to see what you meant.

 

[1huskerfan]

Howdy all. Just dropping by to chime in with my latest thinking / conjecture / revised prediction of outcome, and a question.I'm thinking a #1 pick, $500M fine, and 1 game BB suspension. Stiffer than expected on pick and money impact, but not wanting to protract the issue visibility beyond a week via a multi-game suspension. Question: does Brady call his own plays or are they called in? If he calls his own plays, this would support the notion of him knowing. If the sideline calls the plays, less likely he knew ("Hey Tom, we think you should run left. Really.").

$500 mill? What do they do with the money from the fine, fund Social Security?

MM = millionM = thousandedit: maybe i was confused, but I thought someone else used to post in terms like that in FFA.

lolM = MillionK = Thousand

 

[BusMan]

If the Pats get reamed on this one, you can bet the team will hire a team of people to dig up dirt on all the other franchises and will be giving regular updates to the league office on what everyone else is doing. Maybe we will enter an era of tattletailing.

I think you've brought up the true nature of the problem we're discussing here---the Patriots only care about winning, and are stretching or breaking the rules to reach that goal. The fact that you as a Patriots fan can so definitely state that the team would waste time and effort on childish behavior like this is more proof that BB is infecting the team and its fan base with his pugnacious brand of "fair play". It stinks. And it gets harder and harder to cover up the smell the further away the team gets from the Aqua Velva that was it last Lombardi.

 

[David Yudkin]

Reviewing video tape during the game > passing out HGH?

I believe there was no ling to Wilson distributing HGH. He was cited for using it. Apparently all NFL employees are forbidden from using banned substances, players and coaches alike.

 

[NoFBinLA]

Dear Raiders, Jets, Dolphins, Bills, Steelers, Rams, and Packers fans,

It was nice jawing with you over this topic. I don't really post here so it was mildly amusing but the number of angry and jealous fans who want Belichick strung up and finally have a reason is a little overwhelming.

I'm going to return to anonymity temporarily. See you after the verdict is served.

Patriots fan.

Note: Broncos fans don't seem as rabid about it since Denver sort of owns NE. Colts fans are at peace as well.

1) Jets fan here. FWIW - to make you feel better I guess, since you seem to care - stealing signs or not, the Jets got BEAT Sunday. They need to worry about that o-line... that said...2) if BB cheated, he got caught and will pay the piper.

3) I wonder how you would feel if Mangini got caught? I bet there'd be a ton of Pats fans out here pounding their chests. Although it's been excessive....

Back to topic -

From the blogger

Patriots HC Bill Belichick released the following statement with respect to his meeting with Commissioner Roger Goodell and the accusassions of the signal-stealing via videotape; "Earlier this week, I spoke with Commissioner Goodell about a videotaping procedure during last Sunday's game and my interpretation of the rules. At this point, we have not been notified of the league's ruling. Although it remains a league matter, I want to apologize to everyone who has been affected, most of all ownership, staff and players. Following the league's decision, I will have further comment."

Found the bolded part interesting -- really well worded on BB's part. Careful to not try to say he wasn't doing some taping - and equally careful to say he feels he just intrepreted the rules differently.

I'll tell you what - he isn't a Super Bowl winning coach for nothing. He's clever.

 

[BusMan]

Again, this is not about hating NE. This about hating cheaters.

Let's compromise and say its about hating cheaters with the amazing coincidence that said hatred is being voiced by:60% Jets and Steelers fans30% Rams, Colts, Raiders, Panthers fans10% Other

GB being in the other group.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Even if Brady were involved, I also don't see how anyone could prove it.

I agree. And I see that as a negative for Brady in terms of how his career would be perceived IF the infractions plumb the lowest possible depths. He'll be forever soiled with the residue of this in the minds of many people. Even if he didn't explicitly know about the cheating, he'd definitely be a primary beneficiary and his accomplishments will be called into question, as will the accomplishments of the Pats in general.

I think plenty of people hate him already for his ability to date women that the rest of the real world can only hope to see on screen or in lingerie catalogs.I see this entire situation getting blown out of proportion at this stage and like most other things once it is resolved it will go away and years from now this whole story will be nothing more than a footnote to Brady's career.

I don't know what values you are placing on Brady, but I don't think you can say he's generated hate. A guy like Manning is much more galvanizing. This is a 6th round draft pick who came out of nowhere with seemingly no overwhelming physical skills or hype and seemingly on his own determination and guts, he rose to make himself a first ballot hall of famer before the age of 30. People don't want to hate Brady. And if the worse case scenario is that the Pats cheated, Belichick will wear the hate. I think the feeling is more analogous with disappointment, because one of the great NFL stories of all time is colored. Again, all speculation right now, but thats what hangs in the balance right now. Could you really put him up there with Montana and a Bradshaw if this is true? Is he even better than Aikman? If anything, it solidifies Manning as the QB of his generation.