ESPYs thread (1 Viewer)

[tonydead]

I can see myself taking both sides of the debate here, but yeah, that last sentence is pretty messed up TJ.

 

[Pots]

I can see myself taking both sides of the debate here, but yeah, that last sentence is pretty messed up TJ.

Is it really? Not saying I would be the same, but I can only imagine the disappointment in some father's heart to forced to face with such a situation.

 

[Eephus]

I can see myself taking both sides of the debate here, but yeah, that last sentence is pretty messed up TJ.

Is it really? Not saying I would be the same, but I can only imagine the disappointment in some father's heart to forced to face with such a situation.

Unconditional love doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room.

 

[Kal El]

If one of my children wanted to change their gender, I would treat them the same as I would have before knowing that, because they're still my child. I'm not going to pay for the operation, because that's expensive and I'm not made of money, but I'd love them still. I would still likely think of them as their original gender, however, because that seems to be how my mind works.

 

[tonydead]

I can see myself taking both sides of the debate here, but yeah, that last sentence is pretty messed up TJ.

Is it really? Not saying I would be the same, but I can only imagine the disappointment in some father's heart to forced to face with such a situation.

If that's what I'm imagining; I envision the father being disappointed, hard, sad, less supportive and maybe even distant from his son. Then after 30 years or so of family holidays and reunions kind of forgetting all about it. Then about 10 or 20 years after that when the father is all grown up; 80 or 90 years old, maybe on his deathbed, he will look back and realize what a fool he was.

 

[timschochet]

I don't think people know how they would react if their kids became transgender until it happened to them. I suspect that some of those here who act intolerant would be much more loving and accepting than even they suppose. I also suspect that some of those here who express acceptance and tolerance might be less accepting if it happened to their kids.

As for myself, as much as I can accept such a thing intellectually, it would bother me emotionally, that's the honest truth, and I'd probably say and do some stupid things before I learned to accept it without reservation. But again I don't really know.

 

[Pots]

I don't think people know how they would react if their kids became transgender until it happened to them. I suspect that some of those here who act intolerant would be much more loving and accepting than even they suppose. I also suspect that some of those here who express acceptance and tolerance might be less accepting if it happened to their kids.

As for myself, as much as I can accept such a thing intellectually, it would bother me emotionally, that's the honest truth, and I'd probably say and do some stupid things before I learned to accept it without reservation. But again I don't really know.

Actually a

 

[Poncho]

I don't think people know how they would react if their kids became transgender until it happened to them. I suspect that some of those here who act intolerant would be much more loving and accepting than even they suppose. I also suspect that some of those here who express acceptance and tolerance might be less accepting if it happened to their kids.

As for myself, as much as I can accept such a thing intellectually, it would bother me emotionally, that's the honest truth, and I'd probably say and do some stupid things before I learned to accept it without reservation. But again I don't really know.

I have had to deal with this within the past year. My 14 year old daughter now goes by "Mike" and his mother is dealing with it horribly. To top it all off my other daughter age 11 has her haircut like a boy and says she is "bi-sexual" Needless to say the family has taken a beating. The girls mother and I have been divorced 4 years now and we split time with the kids (4 nights for mom, 3 nights for me a week). As supportive as I try to be and as much as I love both my kids it hasn't been very easy as you can imagine.

 

[General Tso]

Live and let live.

 

[Da Guru]

Live and let live.

I agree. Not a fan of ABC/ESPN whoring Bruce and his new reality show but that is todays media.

 

[ClownCausedChaos2]

Who won for Best Record-Breaking Performance?

 

[Kal El]

I don't think people know how they would react if their kids became transgender until it happened to them. I suspect that some of those here who act intolerant would be much more loving and accepting than even they suppose. I also suspect that some of those here who express acceptance and tolerance might be less accepting if it happened to their kids.

As for myself, as much as I can accept such a thing intellectually, it would bother me emotionally, that's the honest truth, and I'd probably say and do some stupid things before I learned to accept it without reservation. But again I don't really know.

I liked a Tim post. Truly the Apocalypse is nigh!

But in all seriousness, you're right. Unless/until it happens to us, we can simply speculate about our reactions.

 

[Eminence]

I don't think people know how they would react if their kids became transgender until it happened to them. I suspect that some of those here who act intolerant would be much more loving and accepting than even they suppose. I also suspect that some of those here who express acceptance and tolerance might be less accepting if it happened to their kids.

As for myself, as much as I can accept such a thing intellectually, it would bother me emotionally, that's the honest truth, and I'd probably say and do some stupid things before I learned to accept it without reservation. But again I don't really know.

I have had to deal with this within the past year. My 14 year old daughter now goes by "Mike" and his mother is dealing with it horribly. To top it all off my other daughter age 11 has her haircut like a boy and says she is "bi-sexual" Needless to say the family has taken a beating. The girls mother and I have been divorced 4 years now and we split time with the kids (4 nights for mom, 3 nights for me a week). As supportive as I try to be and as much as I love both my kids it hasn't been very easy as you can imagine.

I'm sorry to hear that man. I wish you nothing but the best and hope your kids aren't being pulled in any wrong direction because of the media. :/

 

[General Tso]

I don't think people know how they would react if their kids became transgender until it happened to them. I suspect that some of those here who act intolerant would be much more loving and accepting than even they suppose. I also suspect that some of those here who express acceptance and tolerance might be less accepting if it happened to their kids.

As for myself, as much as I can accept such a thing intellectually, it would bother me emotionally, that's the honest truth, and I'd probably say and do some stupid things before I learned to accept it without reservation. But again I don't really know.

I have had to deal with this within the past year. My 14 year old daughter now goes by "Mike" and his mother is dealing with it horribly. To top it all off my other daughter age 11 has her haircut like a boy and says she is "bi-sexual" Needless to say the family has taken a beating. The girls mother and I have been divorced 4 years now and we split time with the kids (4 nights for mom, 3 nights for me a week). As supportive as I try to be and as much as I love both my kids it hasn't been very easy as you can imagine.

Must be difficult, for you and especially them. I always say that my son brings out the very best in me, even during the tough times. Stay close to em. Sounds like they need you a lot right now.Good luck and God bless.

 

[squistion]

I don't think people know how they would react if their kids became transgender until it happened to them. I suspect that some of those here who act intolerant would be much more loving and accepting than even they suppose. I also suspect that some of those here who express acceptance and tolerance might be less accepting if it happened to their kids.

As for myself, as much as I can accept such a thing intellectually, it would bother me emotionally, that's the honest truth, and I'd probably say and do some stupid things before I learned to accept it without reservation. But again I don't really know.

I have had to deal with this within the past year. My 14 year old daughter now goes by "Mike" and his mother is dealing with it horribly. To top it all off my other daughter age 11 has her haircut like a boy and says she is "bi-sexual" Needless to say the family has taken a beating. The girls mother and I have been divorced 4 years now and we split time with the kids (4 nights for mom, 3 nights for me a week). As supportive as I try to be and as much as I love both my kids it hasn't been very easy as you can imagine.

I'm sorry to hear that man. I wish you nothing but the best and hope your kids aren't being pulled in any wrong direction because of the media. :/

Geez...

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Has anyone mentioned that it's pretty courageous to voluntarily have your #### chopped off?

Yeah...that's not what's going on. And if it was, your statement would still be stupid. Scoot along now.

 

[T J]

They have no idea what my view is and they never will.

Except for the ones reading your posts.

I'm sure there are tons reading this.

This thread has like 8,000 views. Why would you assume no one is reading it?

Why would I assume no transgendered people are reading this thread on a fantasy football website? Gee... I dunno.

So as long as they aren't here to witness it, your hate towards them is OK.

Seems simple...... Minded

Damn, you're dense.

 

[T J]

They have no idea what my view is and they never will.

Except for the ones reading your posts.

I'm sure there are tons reading this.

This thread has like 8,000 views. Why would you assume no one is reading it?

Why would I assume no transgendered people are reading this thread on a fantasy football website? Gee... I dunno.

Seems like a horrible assumption to make.

He's a horrible person

Dude - you don't know me. Why do you have such a hard on for me?

 

[Ditka Butkus]

The willful ignorance in this thread is honestly pretty scary. Every time it feels like we've made social progress in this country, another issue arises and it becomes apparent that most people aren't actually becoming more open-minded, their opinions are just slowly being shamed into silence as they become the minority. Makes me think that people aren't actually becoming accepting, they're just shutting up as their opinions become unpopular. That's a shame, but it will happen on the transgender issue as well. This thread is going to be incredibly embarrassing for some in 5-10 years.

Let me give you a real scenario...Local high school has a so called transgender student....Same situation as Bruce...He /she by law gets to go into the girls bathroom and take his schlong out in front of the under aged girls and take a piss....If a boy were to do that he would be in jail as a sex offender...You ok with that Mister all inclusive.

These kinds of things just really don't matter. They work themselves out once people accept the new status quo. People would have asked the same question about gay dudes twenty years ago. "So what, they can just be on the wrestling team and check out other guys' junk in the locker room after practice, and that's okay?"

People tend to demonize that which the don't understand. You're doing it here. You're projecting a predator mindset onto an entire population of transgender individuals, just to create a ridiculous hypothetical.

Newsflash: a transgender girl or woman wishes she wasn't stuck with the penis she has (and which barely works at all due to hormone therapy), because she feels like a normal woman. She's not whipping it out in a girls bathroom and sexually harassing anyone with it.

You betray all kinds of ignorance with these posts. You think you're asking a legitimate question, but it just highlights your cluelessness. It's akin to someone saying "if we let people marry whoever they want, they'll start marrying their house cats or their first cousins!"

It's nonsensical and it shows a complete misunderstanding of the topic at hand.

Why? Because you say so? From my perspective, you're showing a pretty nonsensical and misunderstood take on opposing views. Not everyone feels the same as you. Just the way it is. That does not make their view nonsense and misunderstood. It's the elitist, superior attitude being shown that makes you all appear to me to be.....well....hateful.

Do you want to get serious?

Outside of understanding it so that I can argue it and hopefully change your mind, no, your opinion doesn't really matter to me or get my respect.

.

Nor yours mine. People that shout down opposing views by insulting and minimizing them come across as pompous asses to me.

Those of us with opposing views are intolerant. The others who are supposedly tolerant call us names...Make sense?

 

[ConnSKINS26]

The willful ignorance in this thread is honestly pretty scary. Every time it feels like we've made social progress in this country, another issue arises and it becomes apparent that most people aren't actually becoming more open-minded, their opinions are just slowly being shamed into silence as they become the minority. Makes me think that people aren't actually becoming accepting, they're just shutting up as their opinions become unpopular. That's a shame, but it will happen on the transgender issue as well. This thread is going to be incredibly embarrassing for some in 5-10 years.

Let me give you a real scenario...Local high school has a so called transgender student....Same situation as Bruce...He /she by law gets to go into the girls bathroom and take his schlong out in front of the under aged girls and take a piss....If a boy were to do that he would be in jail as a sex offender...You ok with that Mister all inclusive.

These kinds of things just really don't matter. They work themselves out once people accept the new status quo. People would have asked the same question about gay dudes twenty years ago. "So what, they can just be on the wrestling team and check out other guys' junk in the locker room after practice, and that's okay?"

People tend to demonize that which the don't understand. You're doing it here. You're projecting a predator mindset onto an entire population of transgender individuals, just to create a ridiculous hypothetical.

Newsflash: a transgender girl or woman wishes she wasn't stuck with the penis she has (and which barely works at all due to hormone therapy), because she feels like a normal woman. She's not whipping it out in a girls bathroom and sexually harassing anyone with it.

You betray all kinds of ignorance with these posts. You think you're asking a legitimate question, but it just highlights your cluelessness. It's akin to someone saying "if we let people marry whoever they want, they'll start marrying their house cats or their first cousins!"

It's nonsensical and it shows a complete misunderstanding of the topic at hand.

Why? Because you say so? From my perspective, you're showing a pretty nonsensical and misunderstood take on opposing views. Not everyone feels the same as you. Just the way it is. That does not make their view nonsense and misunderstood. It's the elitist, superior attitude being shown that makes you all appear to me to be.....well....hateful.

Do you want to get serious?

Outside of understanding it so that I can argue it and hopefully change your mind, no, your opinion doesn't really matter to me or get my respect.

.

Nor yours mine. People that shout down opposing views by insulting and minimizing them come across as pompous asses to me.

Those of us with opposing views are intolerant. The others who are tolerant call us names...Make sense?

"Intolerant", "bigot", "ignorant".

Those aren't names or insults, they're descriptors of exhibited behavior.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

The willful ignorance in this thread is honestly pretty scary. Every time it feels like we've made social progress in this country, another issue arises and it becomes apparent that most people aren't actually becoming more open-minded, their opinions are just slowly being shamed into silence as they become the minority. Makes me think that people aren't actually becoming accepting, they're just shutting up as their opinions become unpopular. That's a shame, but it will happen on the transgender issue as well. This thread is going to be incredibly embarrassing for some in 5-10 years.

Let me give you a real scenario...Local high school has a so called transgender student....Same situation as Bruce...He /she by law gets to go into the girls bathroom and take his schlong out in front of the under aged girls and take a piss....If a boy were to do that he would be in jail as a sex offender...You ok with that Mister all inclusive.

These kinds of things just really don't matter. They work themselves out once people accept the new status quo. People would have asked the same question about gay dudes twenty years ago. "So what, they can just be on the wrestling team and check out other guys' junk in the locker room after practice, and that's okay?"

People tend to demonize that which the don't understand. You're doing it here. You're projecting a predator mindset onto an entire population of transgender individuals, just to create a ridiculous hypothetical.

Newsflash: a transgender girl or woman wishes she wasn't stuck with the penis she has (and which barely works at all due to hormone therapy), because she feels like a normal woman. She's not whipping it out in a girls bathroom and sexually harassing anyone with it.

You betray all kinds of ignorance with these posts. You think you're asking a legitimate question, but it just highlights your cluelessness. It's akin to someone saying "if we let people marry whoever they want, they'll start marrying their house cats or their first cousins!"

It's nonsensical and it shows a complete misunderstanding of the topic at hand.

Why? Because you say so? From my perspective, you're showing a pretty nonsensical and misunderstood take on opposing views. Not everyone feels the same as you. Just the way it is. That does not make their view nonsense and misunderstood. It's the elitist, superior attitude being shown that makes you all appear to me to be.....well....hateful.

Do you want to get serious?

Outside of understanding it so that I can argue it and hopefully change your mind, no, your opinion doesn't really matter to me or get my respect.

.

Nor yours mine. People that shout down opposing views by insulting and minimizing them come across as pompous asses to me.

Those of us with opposing views are intolerant. The others who are tolerant call us names...Make sense?

"Intolerant", "bigot", "ignorant".

Those aren't names or insults, they're descriptors of exhibited behavior.

the same can be said for Doosh, namby pamby and suck up....but I haven't refered to you in that regard.

 

[sharptongued1]

I don't think people know how they would react if their kids became transgender until it happened to them. I suspect that some of those here who act intolerant would be much more loving and accepting than even they suppose. I also suspect that some of those here who express acceptance and tolerance might be less accepting if it happened to their kids.

As for myself, as much as I can accept such a thing intellectually, it would bother me emotionally, that's the honest truth, and I'd probably say and do some stupid things before I learned to accept it without reservation. But again I don't really know.

I have an idiot holy-roller aunt who raised the sweetest girl you've ever met. Smart, hard worker, wants to be a nurse. Girl turns 18, starts dating a boy who idiot aunt disapproves of, cuts off tuition payments, kicks her out of the house. Golly, you'd think the girl would come to her senses and dump the boy, but instead she moved in with him and got knocked up. I don't know for sure but I'd bet money the aunt blames Satan for this ghastly turn of events.I'm just the cousin but it's frustrating to watch from afar. But I'd guess every 10 seconds some poor sap gets permanently mind####ed by their parents.

So she moves in with her boyfriend and proceeds to get knocked up at 18. Sweet? Maybe. Hard working? Perhaps. Smart? Well... Gee, I guess the, "idiot" Aunt isn't so idiotic after all...

 

[T J]

The willful ignorance in this thread is honestly pretty scary. Every time it feels like we've made social progress in this country, another issue arises and it becomes apparent that most people aren't actually becoming more open-minded, their opinions are just slowly being shamed into silence as they become the minority. Makes me think that people aren't actually becoming accepting, they're just shutting up as their opinions become unpopular. That's a shame, but it will happen on the transgender issue as well. This thread is going to be incredibly embarrassing for some in 5-10 years.

Let me give you a real scenario...Local high school has a so called transgender student....Same situation as Bruce...He /she by law gets to go into the girls bathroom and take his schlong out in front of the under aged girls and take a piss....If a boy were to do that he would be in jail as a sex offender...You ok with that Mister all inclusive.

These kinds of things just really don't matter. They work themselves out once people accept the new status quo. People would have asked the same question about gay dudes twenty years ago. "So what, they can just be on the wrestling team and check out other guys' junk in the locker room after practice, and that's okay?"

People tend to demonize that which the don't understand. You're doing it here. You're projecting a predator mindset onto an entire population of transgender individuals, just to create a ridiculous hypothetical.

Newsflash: a transgender girl or woman wishes she wasn't stuck with the penis she has (and which barely works at all due to hormone therapy), because she feels like a normal woman. She's not whipping it out in a girls bathroom and sexually harassing anyone with it.

You betray all kinds of ignorance with these posts. You think you're asking a legitimate question, but it just highlights your cluelessness. It's akin to someone saying "if we let people marry whoever they want, they'll start marrying their house cats or their first cousins!"

It's nonsensical and it shows a complete misunderstanding of the topic at hand.

Why? Because you say so? From my perspective, you're showing a pretty nonsensical and misunderstood take on opposing views. Not everyone feels the same as you. Just the way it is. That does not make their view nonsense and misunderstood. It's the elitist, superior attitude being shown that makes you all appear to me to be.....well....hateful.

Do you want to get serious?

Outside of understanding it so that I can argue it and hopefully change your mind, no, your opinion doesn't really matter to me or get my respect.

.

Nor yours mine. People that shout down opposing views by insulting and minimizing them come across as pompous asses to me.

Those of us with opposing views are intolerant. The others who are tolerant call us names...Make sense?

"Intolerant", "bigot", "ignorant".

Those aren't names or insults, they're descriptors of exhibited behavior.

I admittedly lack tolerance on this, but ignorant? Nope. A bigot? Nope. Just because you characterize another as the adjective of your choice does not make it so. Nor does it describe exhibited behavior just because you suggest that it does.

 

[T J]

I don't think people know how they would react if their kids became transgender until it happened to them. I suspect that some of those here who act intolerant would be much more loving and accepting than even they suppose. I also suspect that some of those here who express acceptance and tolerance might be less accepting if it happened to their kids.

As for myself, as much as I can accept such a thing intellectually, it would bother me emotionally, that's the honest truth, and I'd probably say and do some stupid things before I learned to accept it without reservation. But again I don't really know.

I have an idiot holy-roller aunt who raised the sweetest girl you've ever met. Smart, hard worker, wants to be a nurse. Girl turns 18, starts dating a boy who idiot aunt disapproves of, cuts off tuition payments, kicks her out of the house. Golly, you'd think the girl would come to her senses and dump the boy, but instead she moved in with him and got knocked up. I don't know for sure but I'd bet money the aunt blames Satan for this ghastly turn of events.I'm just the cousin but it's frustrating to watch from afar. But I'd guess every 10 seconds some poor sap gets permanently mind####ed by their parents.

So she moves in with her boyfriend and proceeds to get knocked up at 18. Sweet? Maybe. Hard working? Perhaps. Smart? Well... Gee, I guess the, "idiot" Aunt isn't so idiotic after all...

Last thing in the world she'd want for her precious angel from Heaven would be a ******* child, yet irony of ironies, her intolerance and strict religious dogma led to that outcome. Get it now?

And the niece getting pregnant was the aunt's fault? Nope. it was the niece's own fault and no one else's. People need to take responsibility for their own actions.

 

[ClownCausedChaos2]

I don't think people know how they would react if their kids became transgender until it happened to them. I suspect that some of those here who act intolerant would be much more loving and accepting than even they suppose. I also suspect that some of those here who express acceptance and tolerance might be less accepting if it happened to their kids.

As for myself, as much as I can accept such a thing intellectually, it would bother me emotionally, that's the honest truth, and I'd probably say and do some stupid things before I learned to accept it without reservation. But again I don't really know.

I have an idiot holy-roller aunt who raised the sweetest girl you've ever met. Smart, hard worker, wants to be a nurse. Girl turns 18, starts dating a boy who idiot aunt disapproves of, cuts off tuition payments, kicks her out of the house. Golly, you'd think the girl would come to her senses and dump the boy, but instead she moved in with him and got knocked up. I don't know for sure but I'd bet money the aunt blames Satan for this ghastly turn of events.I'm just the cousin but it's frustrating to watch from afar. But I'd guess every 10 seconds some poor sap gets permanently mind####ed by their parents.

So she moves in with her boyfriend and proceeds to get knocked up at 18. Sweet? Maybe. Hard working? Perhaps. Smart? Well... Gee, I guess the, "idiot" Aunt isn't so idiotic after all...

Last thing in the world she'd want for her precious angel from Heaven would be a ******* child, yet irony of ironies, her intolerance and strict religious dogma led to that outcome. Get it now?

And the niece getting pregnant was the aunt's fault? Nope. it was the niece's own fault and no one else's. People need to take responsibility for their own actions.

In what row was she sitting for the ESPYs?

 

[Slapdash]

Live and let live.

I agree. Not a fan of ABC/ESPN whoring Bruce and his new reality show but that is todays media.

Is there really a reality show coming out or is my sarcasm meter not working?

 

[ConnSKINS26]

I don't think people know how they would react if their kids became transgender until it happened to them. I suspect that some of those here who act intolerant would be much more loving and accepting than even they suppose. I also suspect that some of those here who express acceptance and tolerance might be less accepting if it happened to their kids.

As for myself, as much as I can accept such a thing intellectually, it would bother me emotionally, that's the honest truth, and I'd probably say and do some stupid things before I learned to accept it without reservation. But again I don't really know.

I have an idiot holy-roller aunt who raised the sweetest girl you've ever met. Smart, hard worker, wants to be a nurse. Girl turns 18, starts dating a boy who idiot aunt disapproves of, cuts off tuition payments, kicks her out of the house. Golly, you'd think the girl would come to her senses and dump the boy, but instead she moved in with him and got knocked up. I don't know for sure but I'd bet money the aunt blames Satan for this ghastly turn of events.I'm just the cousin but it's frustrating to watch from afar. But I'd guess every 10 seconds some poor sap gets permanently mind####ed by their parents.

So she moves in with her boyfriend and proceeds to get knocked up at 18. Sweet? Maybe. Hard working? Perhaps. Smart? Well... Gee, I guess the, "idiot" Aunt isn't so idiotic after all...

Or, you know, basically taking her out of school and taking away her home sent her down that path. All because her mother didn't approve of a boyfriend that probably would have went away eventually anyways...instead she pushed her daughter deeper into his arms and made her depend on him.

 

[Chemical X]

when you disapprove of a boyfriend or girlfriend, doesn't that always turn out well? i mean, the kid doesn't harbor any ill will and usually thanks you for setting them straight.

 

[bigbottom]

Mostly serious question...

Am I allowed to be accepting and open minded on the transgender issue but still think Caitlyn Jenner is a tremendous piece of #### and want nothing to do with ever seeing or hearing from her again?

Seems like a lot of both sides on the issue are confusing a few of the posters here with outcry over Jenner/espys as being bigoted or resistance to the transgender movement in this country.

Absolutely. She doesn't strike me as the greatest and most noble human on earth either.

But I really don't know much about her, so I'm confused as to where these passionately negative feelings about her come from. Is it because she's a Kardashian by marriage? As someone else said, she never really seemed interested in drumming up fake drama for the reality show, or even in participating is the show. She just kind of stayed in the background until the divorce and the decision to go public with her transition. And sure, now she's making a reality TV show about that transition, but lots of celebrities participate in reality TV, that doesn't seem like a big deal in this day and age. Is it because of something else she's done or said recently? The accident sure seems worthy of condemnation, but it's quite a leap from that to saying someone is "a tremendous piece of #### and want nothing to do with ever seeing or hearing from her again." Is it because people didn't like Bruce Jenner the golden boy back in the 70s? I don't really remember much about that.

Re: the bolded, my wife watches that God awful show on our bedroom TV at night so I've seen quite a bit of it. Jenner wasn't the star, but he was most definitely a fixture on the show and was prominently featured in many episodes. Definitely not someone who was staying in the background at all.

Not taking a position on anything, just correcting that misperception.

 

[Abraham]

Live and let live.

This. I work with gay people and transgender and all kinds and legitimately don't care at all. Life is too short and sometimes too hard. People should find what makes them happy. I have no desire to get in the way of that.

 

[bigbottom]

I mean...everyone in America already knew who she was as Bruce Jenner. She was on the wheaties box, the whole thing. An Olympic champion, a role model to some in the 70's, etc. She had a ton to lose here, in the court of public opinion. This thread proves that. She has an entire world, or at least country, either applauding or condemning her. That's not easy, even after trying to stay in the shadows through ten years of Kardashian reality TV drama.

The bolded is pure poppycock! That show made him relevant again and he totally embraced it. Again, lots of folks are on reality TV, so I don't judge him for it, but let's not rewrite history.

 

[bigbottom]

Did it take courage for Jenner to undergo her transition in the public spotlight? Yes. Were there more deserving recipients of the award this year. I say yes. Is It possible that Jenner's actions will do a lot of good in terms of helping others who have gender identity issues? I think almost certainly yes. Did Jenner cause the death of that woman in the car accident? From the video, the answer appears to be yes.

 

[Mister CIA]

In hindsight, the only thing that bothers me is linking Jenner's plight to Arthur Ashe's life.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Live and let live.

I agree. Not a fan of ABC/ESPN whoring Bruce and his new reality show but that is todays media.

Is there really a reality show coming out or is my sarcasm meter not working?

Yes , there is. Something Caitlyn.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Did it take courage for Jenner to undergo her transition in the public spotlight? Yes. Were there more deserving recipients of the award this year. I say yes. Is It possible that Jenner's actions will do a lot of good in terms of helping others who have gender identity issues? I think almost certainly yes. Did Jenner cause the death of that woman in the car accident? From the video, the answer appears to be yes.

Well, if he saves just two lives, he'll be net positive.

 

[Raider Nation]

In hindsight, the only thing that bothers me is linking Jenner's plight to Arthur Ashe's life.

Ashe would likely have been fine with it.

Arthur Ashe was very sympathetic to the gay and lesbian community and argued in the defense of the lifestyles. Ashe contracted HIV through a blood transfusion he received during heart bypass surgery in the early 80s. He announced his disease in 1992, and died of AIDS-related pneumonia on February 6, 1993, leaving behind a wife and daughter.

 

[Raider Nation]

I'm not equating the transgendered to being gay, but the point is he was a caring man.

 

[Daywalker]

If I did have kids and one of them was gay or bi I would be able to get on board with that. Love who you want to love.

But to be honest it would be frustrating if my son started dating a guy because it was kind of a trend. I don't really see that currently with guys but I do see it with women. Not near the majority but a lot. Like 10-20% if I had to guestimate.

Of course I can't get in their head. But I feel like a lot of women date other women not because they are free to come out of the closest but because it's marketed as sexy to them.

Not saying that is a bad thing. But would be frustrating as a parent. Perhaps in 25 years I would not be frustrated and that is a good thing. I don't know.

 

[AAABatteries]

Sorry GPJ - it's only July and you already lost the worst thread of the year race. Sweet Mary and Joseph what a cluster####.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Sorry GPJ - it's only July and you already lost the worst thread of the year race. Sweet Mary and Joseph what a cluster####.

We're down three touchdowns with six minutes to go. Not technically done, but not looking good either.

 

[Paulymaggs]

@CraigSJ: You think that 40% trans suicide rate is nuts until you put someone trans on national TV for ten minutes and see how people react.

Or perhaps they have severe mental issues leading to a delusion that can only be realized through expensive, unnatural and life changing procedures.Maybe if the psych community looked to treat the issue like a destructive disorder instead of placating it as a reality they could lower that number and get some people back onto a healthy life path.

"Healthy" enough to continuously troll this forum like you do?

 

[Shawnky]

I don't think people know how they would react if their kids became transgender until it happened to them. I suspect that some of those here who act intolerant would be much more loving and accepting than even they suppose. I also suspect that some of those here who express acceptance and tolerance might be less accepting if it happened to their kids.

As for myself, as much as I can accept such a thing intellectually, it would bother me emotionally, that's the honest truth, and I'd probably say and do some stupid things before I learned to accept it without reservation. But again I don't really know.

I have had to deal with this within the past year. My 14 year old daughter now goes by "Mike" and his mother is dealing with it horribly. To top it all off my other daughter age 11 has her haircut like a boy and says she is "bi-sexual" Needless to say the family has taken a beating. The girls mother and I have been divorced 4 years now and we split time with the kids (4 nights for mom, 3 nights for me a week). As supportive as I try to be and as much as I love both my kids it hasn't been very easy as you can imagine.

I'm sorry to hear that man. I wish you nothing but the best and hope your kids aren't being pulled in any wrong direction because of the media. :/

Geez...

Amazing the depth of stupid. Isn't it?

 

[chauncey]

I just caught a replay of the ESPYs. The bit on Devon Still and his daughter battling cancer was very moving. That is true courage. Props to him, Leah, his family, the Bengals organization, and everyone who supported them throughout. What a warrior she is.

When she didn't come on stage with him I had a lump in my throat the entire speech. I hope she is able to beat up cancer for good.

More power to Bruce/Caitlin to do whatever he/she needs to do to feel good. I hope it works out for him/her and he finds peace in life.

The reactions of Jack Bauer and Brett Favre were priceless.

 

[Apple Jack]

If I did have kids and one of them was gay or bi I would be able to get on board with that. Love who you want to love.

But to be honest it would be frustrating if my son started dating a guy because it was kind of a trend. I don't really see that currently with guys but I do see it with women. Not near the majority but a lot. Like 10-20% if I had to guestimate.

Of course I can't get in their head. But I feel like a lot of women date other women not because they are free to come out of the closest but because it's marketed as sexy to them.

Not saying that is a bad thing. But would be frustrating as a parent. Perhaps in 25 years I would not be frustrated and that is a good thing. I don't know.

A college chick on spring break might make out with a sorority sister at Senor Frogs because she thinks guys see it as sexy AND she's curious. Women "coming out of the closet" and having full-on relationships with other women? Not so much.

And that 10-20% number is ridiculous for a multitude of reasons, not the least of which being you sound like somebody who doesn't have a single gay friend.

 

[sharptongued1]

I don't think people know how they would react if their kids became transgender until it happened to them. I suspect that some of those here who act intolerant would be much more loving and accepting than even they suppose. I also suspect that some of those here who express acceptance and tolerance might be less accepting if it happened to their kids.

As for myself, as much as I can accept such a thing intellectually, it would bother me emotionally, that's the honest truth, and I'd probably say and do some stupid things before I learned to accept it without reservation. But again I don't really know.

I have an idiot holy-roller aunt who raised the sweetest girl you've ever met. Smart, hard worker, wants to be a nurse. Girl turns 18, starts dating a boy who idiot aunt disapproves of, cuts off tuition payments, kicks her out of the house. Golly, you'd think the girl would come to her senses and dump the boy, but instead she moved in with him and got knocked up. I don't know for sure but I'd bet money the aunt blames Satan for this ghastly turn of events.I'm just the cousin but it's frustrating to watch from afar. But I'd guess every 10 seconds some poor sap gets permanently mind####ed by their parents.

So she moves in with her boyfriend and proceeds to get knocked up at 18. Sweet? Maybe. Hard working? Perhaps. Smart? Well... Gee, I guess the, "idiot" Aunt isn't so idiotic after all...

Last thing in the world she'd want for her precious angel from Heaven would be a ******* child, yet irony of ironies, her intolerance and strict religious dogma led to that outcome. Get it now?

So she impregnated her own daughter? Eww...Or are you doing like so many others and absolve your cousin of all responsibility? Your, "smart" cousin chose a boy over her future (paid tuition, free room and board, etc.), period. She further compounds the issue by letting herself get knocked up, bringing a child into the world that she obviously didn't have the means to provide for. Yep, she's a smart one all right.

 

[sharptongued1]

I don't think people know how they would react if their kids became transgender until it happened to them. I suspect that some of those here who act intolerant would be much more loving and accepting than even they suppose. I also suspect that some of those here who express acceptance and tolerance might be less accepting if it happened to their kids.

As for myself, as much as I can accept such a thing intellectually, it would bother me emotionally, that's the honest truth, and I'd probably say and do some stupid things before I learned to accept it without reservation. But again I don't really know.

I have an idiot holy-roller aunt who raised the sweetest girl you've ever met. Smart, hard worker, wants to be a nurse. Girl turns 18, starts dating a boy who idiot aunt disapproves of, cuts off tuition payments, kicks her out of the house. Golly, you'd think the girl would come to her senses and dump the boy, but instead she moved in with him and got knocked up. I don't know for sure but I'd bet money the aunt blames Satan for this ghastly turn of events.I'm just the cousin but it's frustrating to watch from afar. But I'd guess every 10 seconds some poor sap gets permanently mind####ed by their parents.

So she moves in with her boyfriend and proceeds to get knocked up at 18. Sweet? Maybe. Hard working? Perhaps. Smart? Well... Gee, I guess the, "idiot" Aunt isn't so idiotic after all...

Last thing in the world she'd want for her precious angel from Heaven would be a ******* child, yet irony of ironies, her intolerance and strict religious dogma led to that outcome. Get it now?

And the niece getting pregnant was the aunt's fault? Nope. it was the niece's own fault and no one else's. People need to take responsibility for their own actions.

Yep.

 

[Apple Jack]

I don't think people know how they would react if their kids became transgender until it happened to them. I suspect that some of those here who act intolerant would be much more loving and accepting than even they suppose. I also suspect that some of those here who express acceptance and tolerance might be less accepting if it happened to their kids.

As for myself, as much as I can accept such a thing intellectually, it would bother me emotionally, that's the honest truth, and I'd probably say and do some stupid things before I learned to accept it without reservation. But again I don't really know.

I have an idiot holy-roller aunt who raised the sweetest girl you've ever met. Smart, hard worker, wants to be a nurse. Girl turns 18, starts dating a boy who idiot aunt disapproves of, cuts off tuition payments, kicks her out of the house. Golly, you'd think the girl would come to her senses and dump the boy, but instead she moved in with him and got knocked up. I don't know for sure but I'd bet money the aunt blames Satan for this ghastly turn of events.I'm just the cousin but it's frustrating to watch from afar. But I'd guess every 10 seconds some poor sap gets permanently mind####ed by their parents.

So she moves in with her boyfriend and proceeds to get knocked up at 18. Sweet? Maybe. Hard working? Perhaps. Smart? Well... Gee, I guess the, "idiot" Aunt isn't so idiotic after all...

Last thing in the world she'd want for her precious angel from Heaven would be a ******* child, yet irony of ironies, her intolerance and strict religious dogma led to that outcome. Get it now?

And the niece getting pregnant was the aunt's fault? Nope. it was the niece's own fault and no one else's. People need to take responsibility for their own actions.

Probably applies more to the aunt than the niece here. You think it's just a coincidence that more kids of idiots end up pregnant at 18 than kids of smart, compassionate parents?

 

[sharptongued1]

I don't think people know how they would react if their kids became transgender until it happened to them. I suspect that some of those here who act intolerant would be much more loving and accepting than even they suppose. I also suspect that some of those here who express acceptance and tolerance might be less accepting if it happened to their kids.

As for myself, as much as I can accept such a thing intellectually, it would bother me emotionally, that's the honest truth, and I'd probably say and do some stupid things before I learned to accept it without reservation. But again I don't really know.

I have an idiot holy-roller aunt who raised the sweetest girl you've ever met. Smart, hard worker, wants to be a nurse. Girl turns 18, starts dating a boy who idiot aunt disapproves of, cuts off tuition payments, kicks her out of the house. Golly, you'd think the girl would come to her senses and dump the boy, but instead she moved in with him and got knocked up. I don't know for sure but I'd bet money the aunt blames Satan for this ghastly turn of events.I'm just the cousin but it's frustrating to watch from afar. But I'd guess every 10 seconds some poor sap gets permanently mind####ed by their parents.

So she moves in with her boyfriend and proceeds to get knocked up at 18. Sweet? Maybe. Hard working? Perhaps. Smart? Well... Gee, I guess the, "idiot" Aunt isn't so idiotic after all...

Or, you know, basically taking her out of school and taking away her home sent her down that path. All because her mother didn't approve of a boyfriend that probably would have went away eventually anyways...instead she pushed her daughter deeper into his arms and made her depend on him.

She didn't take her out of school, the, "smart" girl through her decisions took herself out of school. Absolve, absolve, absolve...

 

[Apple Jack]

This seems to be a widely held view in huckleberry country. Fellas? You're not fully formed at 18. In fact, that's where things start to really get dangerous and its where many kids can use their parents most. HTH.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

We're beginning to see more and more opposition towards Bruce Jenner. On top of that, we're starting to see more support for this opposition. The more he prances around as a 60 year old delusional man, the more people are realizing there is nothing normal or courageous about the situation.

We're beginning to see more and more opposition towards you too.