Ever wonder what is going through your opponents mind when they offere (1 Viewer)

[LususV]

I think my primary annoyance are the owners that see a rejection of a bad offer as an excuse to make slightly better, but still awful offers.

In one of my keeper leagues, one owner consistently shoots me lowball offers that totally ignore value (auction league with salaries). Decent players, but if I dealt my $20 RB that's worth $60 for a $50 QB who is worth $50 and a couple $5 receivers that are worth $5, I'm worse off.

 

[LususV]

We just had a small training yesterday on negotiating a win/win. A few key points that could be applied in trading.-Know what you are willing to take and be prepared to walk away if you can not get that-Determine your must have, nice to have, I can't believe I got this levels-Ask for more than your must have so you have movement room-Never accept the first offer or first counter (Other owner may feel he asked for too little) These are just a few points and some I'm not sure really apply to this topic. Relevant points to me-People evaluate players differently-Too many times trades do not happen because the two teams evaluate players too differently or the one team focuses too much on what he wants and not what the other owner needs-Too many owners are afraid to make a bad trade and will only trade if they are clearly getting a big win If I am going to propose a trade I usually first determine what it is that I need to help improve my team by position. I then look at who has a player I need and also what his needs might be. I then see if I have something I can offer that is reasonable for what I am trying to acquire. I generally will propose something a little below what I am willing to pay. I'll add that most of the time when I have had a big win in a trade the other team made me the offer and I accepted as opposed to me offering a really lowball trade.

Good points. I generally find that my most successful trades, after I've decided on a need (say, upgrading my QB1) start with isolating my strengths (say I have 4 RBs for 3 slots, and I'm benching a stud every week), and scouting who is weak at those spots (the guy starting two RB2s). If one of those teams has what I want, I'll make an offer. I prefer to offer players that I consider overvalued to consensus and target players that I consider undervalued to consensus.Of course, I rarely have too many players I consider overvalued to consensus, as I wasn't willing to pay their price in the first place.

 

[Concept Coop]

I hate "You're going to walk away from a deal over a late 2nd?!" Guy. Yes, I am. Just like you.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

-Too many owners are afraid to make a bad trade and will only trade if they are clearly getting a big win

I think this is a biggie. Many people won't close a deal unless they feel they won it rather than it was win-win.

 

[Patroclus]

I personally think a lot of the bad trades are offered after someone comes to sites, such as the Shark Pool and they read the trade threads and see that someone got Doug Martin for pick 1.11 and Vick Ballard. I think being drunk or stoned causes a lot as well. I am just curious what everyone else thinks.

I think a lot of "bad" trade offers happen when the person getting the offer feel butthurt by such an insulting offer.I will tell you some of my best trade opportunities come after talking trades over with someone who made me a bad offer. They either know their stuff and you can make a fair trade with them. Or they don't know their stuff and you need to find which gem on their roster they have a drastically wrong opinion of. Either way you can make a trade.

 

[Instinctive]

I tend to try and take bad offers as indicators of interest. Only two things truly bother me in a trade:

1. If I ask your thoughts, or why you made an offer, and explain my position...then you make a counter that clearly shouts "I didn't read your email at all!!!" without any of your own position.

2. I hate when I inquire about a guy, with a decent offer, and just get nothing. Like, at least tell me that you just think Fred Jackson is worth more than a 2nd right now and don't want to move him, so I know. I don't understand straight rejections, especially when I send notes with my thoughts. It's like...hello! A chance for you to make your team better! Why the #### would you ignore that?

 

[Ernol]

I tend to try and take bad offers as indicators of interest. Only two things truly bother me in a trade:

1. If I ask your thoughts, or why you made an offer, and explain my position...then you make a counter that clearly shouts "I didn't read your email at all!!!" without any of your own position.

2. I hate when I inquire about a guy, with a decent offer, and just get nothing. Like, at least tell me that you just think Fred Jackson is worth more than a 2nd right now and don't want to move him, so I know. I don't understand straight rejections, especially when I send notes with my thoughts. It's like...hello! A chance for you to make your team better! Why the #### would you ignore that?

Is there anything worse though than offering what you think is reasonable and then getting no rejection at all (to the point where you forgot you made the offer in the first place)? Is it too much to ask that they at least push the reject button. That said, I am guilty of this at times when Im away for a while and just forgot to look back at a prior offer. What annoys me is when this is a regular occurrence and you just never get a response.

 

[Instinctive]

I tend to try and take bad offers as indicators of interest. Only two things truly bother me in a trade: 1. If I ask your thoughts, or why you made an offer, and explain my position...then you make a counter that clearly shouts "I didn't read your email at all!!!" without any of your own position. 2. I hate when I inquire about a guy, with a decent offer, and just get nothing. Like, at least tell me that you just think Fred Jackson is worth more than a 2nd right now and don't want to move him, so I know. I don't understand straight rejections, especially when I send notes with my thoughts. It's like...hello! A chance for you to make your team better! Why the #### would you ignore that?

Is there anything worse though than offering what you think is reasonable and then getting no rejection at all (to the point where you forgot you made the offer in the first place)? Is it too much to ask that they at least push the reject button. That said, I am guilty of this at times when Im away for a while and just forgot to look back at a prior offer. What annoys me is when this is a regular occurrence and you just never get a response.

I'm generally ok if someone just doesn't get to an offer right away. If I'm gonna leave an offer to me open, I tend to comment on it with some sort of "hey, I'll look at this deeper later, but it intrigues me" or something to that effect. I just don't get it when people do stupid things, like not respond or ignore a thought process.

 

[Ernol]

I tend to try and take bad offers as indicators of interest. Only two things truly bother me in a trade: 1. If I ask your thoughts, or why you made an offer, and explain my position...then you make a counter that clearly shouts "I didn't read your email at all!!!" without any of your own position. 2. I hate when I inquire about a guy, with a decent offer, and just get nothing. Like, at least tell me that you just think Fred Jackson is worth more than a 2nd right now and don't want to move him, so I know. I don't understand straight rejections, especially when I send notes with my thoughts. It's like...hello! A chance for you to make your team better! Why the #### would you ignore that?

Is there anything worse though than offering what you think is reasonable and then getting no rejection at all (to the point where you forgot you made the offer in the first place)? Is it too much to ask that they at least push the reject button. That said, I am guilty of this at times when Im away for a while and just forgot to look back at a prior offer. What annoys me is when this is a regular occurrence and you just never get a response.

I'm generally ok if someone just doesn't get to an offer right away. If I'm gonna leave an offer to me open, I tend to comment on it with some sort of "hey, I'll look at this deeper later, but it intrigues me" or something to that effect. I just don't get it when people do stupid things, like not respond or ignore a thought process.

Taking a long time is one thing. Just ignoring the offer entirely as if I never made it is what I am talking about.

 

[Bruce Hammond]

The funny thing is, if someone comes to me because he wants a specific player, he should be expecting to overpay, not underpay for him. C'mon. If I own him I made a decision at some point to get him and therefore chances are I value him, and probably a bit more than the market. So why would I unload him for LESS than market?

It's like owning a classic car and having it sitting in the driveway, and some guy sees it as he drives by. He stops, comes knocking at my door, and says "wow, I always wanted one of those. I'll give you (80% of true value) for it!" Well, he knows what it is worth (or should) before he makes the offer, and he certainly should know that I know what it is worth, and he should also know that unless I have a "for sale" sign on it I'm likely not looking to sell it for market price or I already would have done so. There may be a sentimental attachment there.

 

[ghostguy123]

I hate "You're going to walk away from a deal over a late 2nd?!" Guy. Yes, I am. Just like you.

hahaha, yep. Another of the logical wizards out there. The guy is bashing you for passing on the deal because you wont give some 2nd rounder..............while at the same time he wont do the deal because he isnt getting that 2nd rounder. LOVE those guys

 

[ghostguy123]

-Too many owners are afraid to make a bad trade and will only trade if they are clearly getting a big win

I think this is a biggie. Many people won't close a deal unless they feel they won it rather than it was win-win.

Ummm, pretty sure that is YOU based on everything you have said.

 

[ghostguy123]

I tend to try and take bad offers as indicators of interest. Only two things truly bother me in a trade:

1. If I ask your thoughts, or why you made an offer, and explain my position...then you make a counter that clearly shouts "I didn't read your email at all!!!" without any of your own position.

2. I hate when I inquire about a guy, with a decent offer, and just get nothing. Like, at least tell me that you just think Fred Jackson is worth more than a 2nd right now and don't want to move him, so I know. I don't understand straight rejections, especially when I send notes with my thoughts. It's like...hello! A chance for you to make your team better! Why the #### would you ignore that?

Or when someone tries to tell you why you should take their offer .

 

[fightingillini]

What's amazing to me is, when someone offers me a trade that appears very reasonable, but it does nothing to improve my team. Sure, Matt Ryan for Marques Colston is a reasonable trade, but I already have Drew Brees as my starting QB.....why do I need Ryan? You have to look at how the other side will view the trade.

If someone offers me a ridiculous trade, I just laugh, call them a dumba$$, then respond telling them I will negotiate when they come back with a reasonable offer. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

But on the flip side, you never know what the other side is thinking, so unless the offer is ridiculously bad, why not offer it?

 

[fightingillini]

I tend to try and take bad offers as indicators of interest. Only two things truly bother me in a trade:

1. If I ask your thoughts, or why you made an offer, and explain my position...then you make a counter that clearly shouts "I didn't read your email at all!!!" without any of your own position.

2. I hate when I inquire about a guy, with a decent offer, and just get nothing. Like, at least tell me that you just think Fred Jackson is worth more than a 2nd right now and don't want to move him, so I know. I don't understand straight rejections, especially when I send notes with my thoughts. It's like...hello! A chance for you to make your team better! Why the #### would you ignore that?

Or when someone tries to tell you why you should take their offer .

I don't agree.......selling the deal is important, but you can't overdo it. I always give a high level pitch as to why the trade that I am offering will improve your team. I let the other owner decide if they agree or not that the deal improves their team. The more information you give, the chances are greater that the other owner won't agree with you, giving them reasons to reject your offer.

 

[ghostguy123]

What's amazing to me is, when someone offers me a trade that appears very reasonable, but it does nothing to improve my team. Sure, Matt Ryan for Marques Colston is a reasonable trade, but I already have Drew Brees as my starting QB.....why do I need Ryan? You have to look at how the other side will view the trade.

If someone offers me a ridiculous trade, I just laugh, call them a dumb###, then respond telling them I will negotiate when they come back with a reasonable offer. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

But on the flip side, you never know what the other side is thinking, so unless the offer is ridiculously bad, why not offer it?

Yeah, the people that send offers like that pretty much are the opposite of what I would look to do. If you are really just hunting for a trade in your favor, look at the other teams and see if you can find a NEED someone has. People will usually pay more for something when they NEED it, correct? Fantasy football is no different.

How bout this though, these are the BEST offers. This has happened to me in the past a few times.

Lets say it's the offseason and I literally two days ago just traded picks 4 and 5 for Hakeem Nicks. I will then get an offer from someone where they offer me something like picks 9 and 12 for Nicks. I JUST traded 4 and 5, and now two days later with nothing changes, I am getting an offer of 9/12??? He may as well have just offered me 9/12 for 4/5 in the first place. It's the same level of stupidity.

Then the person will try and talk me into why those two picks are better for my team than Nicks. I mean, you would think common sense would enter the dude's head at some point.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

-Too many owners are afraid to make a bad trade and will only trade if they are clearly getting a big win

I think this is a biggie. Many people won't close a deal unless they feel they won it rather than it was win-win.

Ummm, pretty sure that is YOU based on everything you have said.

I'm positive it's not.

Now you're just making #### up.

 

[ghostguy123]

I don't agree.......selling the deal is important, but you can't overdo it. I always give a high level pitch as to why the trade that I am offering will improve your team. I let the other owner decide if they agree or not that the deal improves their team. The more information you give, the chances are greater that the other owner won't agree with you, giving them reasons to reject your offer.

Sure, you can say something like "thought you might want an upgrade at RB and deal one of your WRs"..............but if people get any more detailed than that and try to tell me I SHOULD take their offer, there really is nothing more annoying than someone else in the league telling me what I should do with my team.

 

[Dez]

Maybe it is because we see other owners are actually accepting these kind of offers, offers that you would never dream would even be offers let alone taken.

Examples

Lamar Miller for rookie pick 20 this year

Daryl Richardson for Pierce, projected top 6 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th

Martin for Lance Moore, LaFell and future 1st

Karim for a 1st/2nd/5th/6th

Picks 12/18 in a weak draft for a projected top 2 future 1st (that ended up being Doug Martin)

Morris for Pettigrew, Andre Brown, 2nd/3rd/4th

Dez for Rudolph + 3rd in 1.5 PPR

Chris Johnson for Ben Tate

Ben Tate for 1.04 + future 2nd (during last year's rookie draft aka Andrew Luck at 1.04)

Brees and a projected #1 overall pick in 2014 for Flacco a projected late 1st and a couple 3rds/4ths

Addai on his death bed for a future 1st projected top 3 pick

Could go on forever really but we see these trades happen day after day after day and people see them and probably think "I may as well ask I mean others are taking them"

 

[ghostguy123]

-Too many owners are afraid to make a bad trade and will only trade if they are clearly getting a big win

I think this is a biggie. Many people won't close a deal unless they feel they won it rather than it was win-win.

Ummm, pretty sure that is YOU based on everything you have said.

I'm positive it's not.

Now you're just making #### up.

Says the guy who offers lowball offers to start every conversation.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

-Too many owners are afraid to make a bad trade and will only trade if they are clearly getting a big win

I think this is a biggie. Many people won't close a deal unless they feel they won it rather than it was win-win.

Ummm, pretty sure that is YOU based on everything you have said.

I'm positive it's not.

Now you're just making #### up.

Says the guy who offers lowball offers to start every conversation.

And that's the same as finishing with it?

Again, sorry you have trouble understanding what you read and/or following the argument being made.

 

[ghostguy123]

Maybe it is because we see other owners are actually accepting these kind of offers, offers that you would never dream would even be offers let alone taken.

Examples

Lamar Miller for rookie pick 20 this year

Olsen for a future 2nd round pick in a 1.5 TE PPR (or 1.25 TE PPR even for that matter)

Picks 12/18 in a weak draft for a projected top 2 future 1st (that ended up being Doug Martin)

Morris for Pettigrew, Andre Brown, 2nd/3rd/4th

Dez for Rudolph + 3rd in 1.5 PPR

Chris Johnson for Ben Tate

Ben Tate for 1.04 + future 2nd (during last year's rookie draft aka Andrew Luck at 1.04)

Brees and a projected #1 overall pick in 2014 for Flacco a projected late 1st and a couple 3rds/4ths

Could go on forever really but we see these trades happen day after day after day and people see them and probably think "I may as well ask I mean others are taking them"

Right, but it doesn't take long to know who these idiots are, and THOSE are the people you can send stupid offers to.

Like right now, I am not going to send YOU an offer of a 2015 1st that is projected to be late for Aaron Hernandez or something. I might if I saw you make some other idiotic deal that was similar to that though.

 

[Instinctive]

I tend to try and take bad offers as indicators of interest. Only two things truly bother me in a trade:

1. If I ask your thoughts, or why you made an offer, and explain my position...then you make a counter that clearly shouts "I didn't read your email at all!!!" without any of your own position.

2. I hate when I inquire about a guy, with a decent offer, and just get nothing. Like, at least tell me that you just think Fred Jackson is worth more than a 2nd right now and don't want to move him, so I know. I don't understand straight rejections, especially when I send notes with my thoughts. It's like...hello! A chance for you to make your team better! Why the #### would you ignore that?

Or when someone tries to tell you why you should take their offer .

Love that actually - I love seeing what you think of my team and why you're making the offer you are. If you're wrong, I'll correct you...but I still love to hear those thoughts. Every once in a while someone sees something about my team that I hadn't noticed.

Now, I tend not to play with any but the most experienced and the best in dynasty leagues, so there typically isn't an idiot who thinks he can sell you on a bad deal...I could see where that would be annoying.

 

[fightingillini]

I don't agree.......selling the deal is important, but you can't overdo it. I always give a high level pitch as to why the trade that I am offering will improve your team. I let the other owner decide if they agree or not that the deal improves their team. The more information you give, the chances are greater that the other owner won't agree with you, giving them reasons to reject your offer.

Sure, you can say something like "thought you might want an upgrade at RB and deal one of your WRs"..............but if people get any more detailed than that and try to tell me I SHOULD take their offer, there really is nothing more annoying than someone else in the league telling me what I should do with my team.

I agree with that. And that's really all I say to a certain extent, this trade helps your team in that 1) it either addresses a need that you have, or 2) you get an upgrade at a certain position. Nothing else. Whether it actually addresses the owner's need or gives them an upgrade is up for the other owner to decide.

 

[fightingillini]

I tend to try and take bad offers as indicators of interest. Only two things truly bother me in a trade:

1. If I ask your thoughts, or why you made an offer, and explain my position...then you make a counter that clearly shouts "I didn't read your email at all!!!" without any of your own position.

2. I hate when I inquire about a guy, with a decent offer, and just get nothing. Like, at least tell me that you just think Fred Jackson is worth more than a 2nd right now and don't want to move him, so I know. I don't understand straight rejections, especially when I send notes with my thoughts. It's like...hello! A chance for you to make your team better! Why the #### would you ignore that?

Or when someone tries to tell you why you should take their offer .

Love that actually - I love seeing what you think of my team and why you're making the offer you are. If you're wrong, I'll correct you...but I still love to hear those thoughts. Every once in a while someone sees something about my team that I hadn't noticed.

Now, I tend not to play with any but the most experienced and the best in dynasty leagues, so there typically isn't an idiot who thinks he can sell you on a bad deal...I could see where that would be annoying.

I actually like it more when someone is rejecting my offer. When I reject someone's offer or countering, I always give my feedback as to what I am thinking and why I rejected the offer. It pisses me off when someone just responds, "no, sorry" with no explanation......or doesn't respond at all.

As I said earlier, when someone tries to convince me that they should take this offer, they usually give too much detail, and you run the risk of me rejecting it if I don't follow your reasoning or don't agree with a part of it. You need to be careful not to overdo it.

But the key is reading how your opponents react to that type of "selling". Some like Instinctive like it, others like ghostguy123 hate it. Usually you "sell" more to less informed owners. Owners on this site are well informed and can usually come up with their own view without your input.

 

[cstu]

The funny thing is, if someone comes to me because he wants a specific player, he should be expecting to overpay, not underpay for him. C'mon. If I own him I made a decision at some point to get him and therefore chances are I value him, and probably a bit more than the market. So why would I unload him for LESS than market? It's like owning a classic car and having it sitting in the driveway, and some guy sees it as he drives by. He stops, comes knocking at my door, and says "wow, I always wanted one of those. I'll give you (80% of true value) for it!" Well, he knows what it is worth (or should) before he makes the offer, and he certainly should know that I know what it is worth, and he should also know that unless I have a "for sale" sign on it I'm likely not looking to sell it for market price or I already would have done so. There may be a sentimental attachment there.

Good point, Bruce. If a guy is on someone's roster it's usually because they value him high - either through the draft or by trade.

 

[Ernol]

I tend to try and take bad offers as indicators of interest. Only two things truly bother me in a trade:

1. If I ask your thoughts, or why you made an offer, and explain my position...then you make a counter that clearly shouts "I didn't read your email at all!!!" without any of your own position.

2. I hate when I inquire about a guy, with a decent offer, and just get nothing. Like, at least tell me that you just think Fred Jackson is worth more than a 2nd right now and don't want to move him, so I know. I don't understand straight rejections, especially when I send notes with my thoughts. It's like...hello! A chance for you to make your team better! Why the #### would you ignore that?

Or when someone tries to tell you why you should take their offer .

Or how about the "I'm shocked you didn't accept my offer"

 

[Instinctive]

I tend to try and take bad offers as indicators of interest. Only two things truly bother me in a trade:

1. If I ask your thoughts, or why you made an offer, and explain my position...then you make a counter that clearly shouts "I didn't read your email at all!!!" without any of your own position.

2. I hate when I inquire about a guy, with a decent offer, and just get nothing. Like, at least tell me that you just think Fred Jackson is worth more than a 2nd right now and don't want to move him, so I know. I don't understand straight rejections, especially when I send notes with my thoughts. It's like...hello! A chance for you to make your team better! Why the #### would you ignore that?

Or when someone tries to tell you why you should take their offer .

Love that actually - I love seeing what you think of my team and why you're making the offer you are. If you're wrong, I'll correct you...but I still love to hear those thoughts. Every once in a while someone sees something about my team that I hadn't noticed.

Now, I tend not to play with any but the most experienced and the best in dynasty leagues, so there typically isn't an idiot who thinks he can sell you on a bad deal...I could see where that would be annoying.

I actually like it more when someone is rejecting my offer. When I reject someone's offer or countering, I always give my feedback as to what I am thinking and why I rejected the offer. It pisses me off when someone just responds, "no, sorry" with no explanation......or doesn't respond at all.

As I said earlier, when someone tries to convince me that they should take this offer, they usually give too much detail, and you run the risk of me rejecting it if I don't follow your reasoning or don't agree with a part of it. You need to be careful not to overdo it.

But the key is reading how your opponents react to that type of "selling". Some like Instinctive like it, others like ghostguy123 hate it. Usually you "sell" more to less informed owners. Owners on this site are well informed and can usually come up with their own view without your input.

Ghostguy seems like he would be incredibly difficult to trade with. He doesn't want to negotiate, if you value a guy differently than he does it's because you're lowballing, he doesn't want to hear your thoughts...he's offended by a lot of things...

And yeah, there's a difference between convincing and explaining, but what's most important to me, what signifies that we CAN get a deal done even if I don't like your offer, is that you took the time to look at my roster, you came up with x, y, and z thoughts, and that's why you offered what you did. If that's your process, it means you'd be willing to incorporate what I tell you about my plans and what I think of my team into your offer. I can work with that. Even if I actually love my RBs, the fact that you thought I was weak there and you need a WR, so you offered a RB for one...at least you're trying. I can work with that, and maybe I need a 1st and a TE instead of a RB, but I'm not going to get offended that you tried to take my team needs into consideration.

My perception of many of the posts in this thread is that anyone trying to explain a thought process must be a lowballing used car salesman if they value someone higher and/or lower than you. That's not the case. Or, it hasn't been for me. If that's the case for you, maybe you need to play in some leagues with better competition.

 

[fightingillini]

I tend to try and take bad offers as indicators of interest. Only two things truly bother me in a trade:

1. If I ask your thoughts, or why you made an offer, and explain my position...then you make a counter that clearly shouts "I didn't read your email at all!!!" without any of your own position.

2. I hate when I inquire about a guy, with a decent offer, and just get nothing. Like, at least tell me that you just think Fred Jackson is worth more than a 2nd right now and don't want to move him, so I know. I don't understand straight rejections, especially when I send notes with my thoughts. It's like...hello! A chance for you to make your team better! Why the #### would you ignore that?

Or when someone tries to tell you why you should take their offer .

Love that actually - I love seeing what you think of my team and why you're making the offer you are. If you're wrong, I'll correct you...but I still love to hear those thoughts. Every once in a while someone sees something about my team that I hadn't noticed.

Now, I tend not to play with any but the most experienced and the best in dynasty leagues, so there typically isn't an idiot who thinks he can sell you on a bad deal...I could see where that would be annoying.

I actually like it more when someone is rejecting my offer. When I reject someone's offer or countering, I always give my feedback as to what I am thinking and why I rejected the offer. It pisses me off when someone just responds, "no, sorry" with no explanation......or doesn't respond at all.

As I said earlier, when someone tries to convince me that they should take this offer, they usually give too much detail, and you run the risk of me rejecting it if I don't follow your reasoning or don't agree with a part of it. You need to be careful not to overdo it.

But the key is reading how your opponents react to that type of "selling". Some like Instinctive like it, others like ghostguy123 hate it. Usually you "sell" more to less informed owners. Owners on this site are well informed and can usually come up with their own view without your input.

Ghostguy seems like he would be incredibly difficult to trade with. He doesn't want to negotiate, if you value a guy differently than he does it's because you're lowballing, he doesn't want to hear your thoughts...he's offended by a lot of things...

And yeah, there's a difference between convincing and explaining, but what's most important to me, what signifies that we CAN get a deal done even if I don't like your offer, is that you took the time to look at my roster, you came up with x, y, and z thoughts, and that's why you offered what you did. If that's your process, it means you'd be willing to incorporate what I tell you about my plans and what I think of my team into your offer. I can work with that. Even if I actually love my RBs, the fact that you thought I was weak there and you need a WR, so you offered a RB for one...at least you're trying. I can work with that, and maybe I need a 1st and a TE instead of a RB, but I'm not going to get offended that you tried to take my team needs into consideration.

My perception of many of the posts in this thread is that anyone trying to explain a thought process must be a lowballing used car salesman if they value someone higher and/or lower than you. That's not the case. Or, it hasn't been for me. If that's the case for you, maybe you need to play in some leagues with better competition.

I understand your point.

It really depends on who I am dealing with. Some guys I can have a dialogue just like what you describe. Others get turned off by it. I wouldn't necessarily think that the competition is worse because someone doesn't like someone trying to sell the deal.

Again, it doesn't bother me if someone tries to sell me a deal, but you run the risk of giving information that maybe I didn't think of.....that would make me reject the offer.

Look, I play in 4 leagues. Some guys in my leagues are wheelers and dealers and love to trade and love discussing trades. Others are tough to trade with. Some never make trades. I am somewhat in the middle.....I usually make 1-4 trades a year per league. If I have a need and someone has that need, and I can help him out, we usually get a deal done. Just because someone is tough to trade with doesn't mean that they are a bad FF player.

I do something similar to you, but it's usually after the 1st offer has been made. I make an initial offer to judge if there's interest, and if so (even if the 1st offer is rejected), we can start discussing what it will take to get a deal done. I try not to tip my hand right away......so my 1st offer, while it's a real offer, is many times a "feeler" offer. It's rarely my best offer, but I don't offer any ridiculous either.

I have made many trades that involved a lot of discussion, and I have made trades where an offer was made and accepted, or an offer was made, 1 counteroffer was made, then accepted.......where there was no discussion, just here's an offer....here's a counteroffer.....OK we have a deal.

There's many ways to get a deal done.....and it depends on who you're dealing with.

 

[ghostguy123]

I tend to try and take bad offers as indicators of interest. Only two things truly bother me in a trade:

1. If I ask your thoughts, or why you made an offer, and explain my position...then you make a counter that clearly shouts "I didn't read your email at all!!!" without any of your own position.

2. I hate when I inquire about a guy, with a decent offer, and just get nothing. Like, at least tell me that you just think Fred Jackson is worth more than a 2nd right now and don't want to move him, so I know. I don't understand straight rejections, especially when I send notes with my thoughts. It's like...hello! A chance for you to make your team better! Why the #### would you ignore that?

Or when someone tries to tell you why you should take their offer .

Or how about the "I'm shocked you didn't accept my offer"

I am still shocked you didnt accept that offer. It doesnt mean you SHOULD have taken it, I was just shocked you didnt.

 

[ghostguy123]

I tend to try and take bad offers as indicators of interest. Only two things truly bother me in a trade:

1. If I ask your thoughts, or why you made an offer, and explain my position...then you make a counter that clearly shouts "I didn't read your email at all!!!" without any of your own position.

2. I hate when I inquire about a guy, with a decent offer, and just get nothing. Like, at least tell me that you just think Fred Jackson is worth more than a 2nd right now and don't want to move him, so I know. I don't understand straight rejections, especially when I send notes with my thoughts. It's like...hello! A chance for you to make your team better! Why the #### would you ignore that?

Or when someone tries to tell you why you should take their offer .

Love that actually - I love seeing what you think of my team and why you're making the offer you are. If you're wrong, I'll correct you...but I still love to hear those thoughts. Every once in a while someone sees something about my team that I hadn't noticed.

Now, I tend not to play with any but the most experienced and the best in dynasty leagues, so there typically isn't an idiot who thinks he can sell you on a bad deal...I could see where that would be annoying.

I actually like it more when someone is rejecting my offer. When I reject someone's offer or countering, I always give my feedback as to what I am thinking and why I rejected the offer. It pisses me off when someone just responds, "no, sorry" with no explanation......or doesn't respond at all.

As I said earlier, when someone tries to convince me that they should take this offer, they usually give too much detail, and you run the risk of me rejecting it if I don't follow your reasoning or don't agree with a part of it. You need to be careful not to overdo it.

But the key is reading how your opponents react to that type of "selling". Some like Instinctive like it, others like ghostguy123 hate it. Usually you "sell" more to less informed owners. Owners on this site are well informed and can usually come up with their own view without your input.

Ghostguy seems like he would be incredibly difficult to trade with. He doesn't want to negotiate, if you value a guy differently than he does it's because you're lowballing, he doesn't want to hear your thoughts...he's offended by a lot of things...

And yeah, there's a difference between convincing and explaining, but what's most important to me, what signifies that we CAN get a deal done even if I don't like your offer, is that you took the time to look at my roster, you came up with x, y, and z thoughts, and that's why you offered what you did. If that's your process, it means you'd be willing to incorporate what I tell you about my plans and what I think of my team into your offer. I can work with that. Even if I actually love my RBs, the fact that you thought I was weak there and you need a WR, so you offered a RB for one...at least you're trying. I can work with that, and maybe I need a 1st and a TE instead of a RB, but I'm not going to get offended that you tried to take my team needs into consideration.

My perception of many of the posts in this thread is that anyone trying to explain a thought process must be a lowballing used car salesman if they value someone higher and/or lower than you. That's not the case. Or, it hasn't been for me. If that's the case for you, maybe you need to play in some leagues with better competition.

Frankly, far too much of what I have said it terribly taken out of context. I am talking about EXTREMES.

And I would wager that I have completed more trades on average per league than anyone else on this forum in the past two years.

I believe in last year's startup I did, I completed 25-30 trades before the draft even started, and already 10+ this offseason. Not to mention tons of deals in the other leagues.

I just know which guys not to bother with. The guys who HAVE to get a huge edge in every deal or they dont even bother.

Also, pretty sure the big money FFPC leagues are pretty good competition.

 

[Biabreakable]

Maybe it is because we see other owners are actually accepting these kind of offers, offers that you would never dream would even be offers let alone taken.

Examples

Lamar Miller for rookie pick 20 this year

Olsen for a future 2nd round pick in a 1.5 TE PPR (or 1.25 TE PPR even for that matter)

Picks 12/18 in a weak draft for a projected top 2 future 1st (that ended up being Doug Martin)

Morris for Pettigrew, Andre Brown, 2nd/3rd/4th

Dez for Rudolph + 3rd in 1.5 PPR

Chris Johnson for Ben Tate

Ben Tate for 1.04 + future 2nd (during last year's rookie draft aka Andrew Luck at 1.04)

Brees and a projected #1 overall pick in 2014 for Flacco a projected late 1st and a couple 3rds/4ths

Could go on forever really but we see these trades happen day after day after day and people see them and probably think "I may as well ask I mean others are taking them"

Right, but it doesn't take long to know who these idiots are, and THOSE are the people you can send stupid offers to.

Like right now, I am not going to send YOU an offer of a 2015 1st that is projected to be late for Aaron Hernandez or something. I might if I saw you make some other idiotic deal that was similar to that though.

A shark feeding frenzy occurs when a number of sharks fight for the same prey. Sharks are usually solitary diners, and a feeding frenzy indicates why that might be. To an observer, it looks like the sharks lose their mind biting at anything that's in their way in an uncontrollable rage. They thrash around, their snouts elevating and their backs arching, all signs that indicate an impending attack. Some accounts tell of sharks eating each other and of sharks continuing to feed even after they've been disemboweled by other sharks [sources: Encyclopedia Britannica, Martin].

But what causes these feeding frenzies? Some studies indicate that sharks will always be motivated to eat, no matter how full they are [source: Parker]. Does this mean that a feeding frenzy could happen at any moment? What causes them to get so crazed? And why can't they just share?

Some scientists have observed feeding frenzies occurring naturally, particularly in shallow waters where seabirds, seals and sea lions congregate. However, they don't appear to be a common natural occurrence. Rather, it's more likely that feeding frenzies are rare events caused by a "supernormal stimulus," such as a high amount of stress in the water [source: Parker].

Studies have shown that sharks can sense distressed prey; they respond to scents emitted by injured fish, and they can hear the sounds of a wounded person thrashing around in the water [source: Shark Trust]. Given the choice between healthy and injured prey, the shark will always pick the injured prey because it will take less energy to catch it. But things get crazy when more than one shark shows up to take advantage of the prey's misfortune.
It's important to note that many species retain a sense of order within a frenzy. The Caribbean reef shark, for example, still maintains a quasi pecking order during a feeding frenzy [source: Dehart]. The whitetip reef shark also behaves in a (somewhat) orderly fashion during what looks to be a chaotic bloodbath. If this buffet entices multiple sharks, sometimes they'll inadvertently bite each other [source: Dehart].

Many feeding frenzies start near fishing boats, particularly when fishermen pull in a net of fish. These fish are thrashing against the net and perhaps have been injured in their capture, and the chemicals they give off attract the sharks. Sharks become aroused by the scent of blood and think they've happened upon an easy meal, but when more than one shark shows up, the scene gets competitive.

Whether the attraction is to frantic prey or a frothy mix of blood and guts, the intense stress emitted by these items seems to cause the sharks to freak out and enter the frenzied state. The more sharks attracted to the scene, the more distressed the scene becomes, as the splashing increases. Scientists don't know yet how much of a feeding frenzy is actually about eating and how much of it is about establishing dominance in some ordered way that looks like chaos to us. Regardless, frenzies are one more thing that makes sharks both fearsome and fascinating.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/zoology/marine-life/shark-feeding-frenzy.htm

This results in a bare bones roster and unbalanced league with a few teams way ahead of the rest from the trades they got from the bad owner/depleted roster/replacement owner.