Every branch of the U.S. military is struggling to meet its 2022 recruiting goals (1 Viewer)

[FBG26]

I thought about joining the military back in high school but then 9/11 happened and we invaded Afghanistan. It was a lock that you'd end up in a war zone so I quickly put the kabosh on that idea.

This country has been at war for a large portion of our history so I'm worried about my kids when they get to that age. It's hard to recruit people to prepare for a war against a nation-state when the last 50 years we've been fighting wars in Afghanistan / Vietnam that are harder to understand and risk your life for.

 

[ren hoek]

This country is corrupt and our empire is crumbling.  I don't think it's hard for younger people to see that.  The 'serve your country' idea might hold up for the youths, if it weren't clear the govt didn't give a single #### about them or their future.  I don't see white picket fences and retirement in the cards for them or myself for that matter- let alone a livable planet or an earnest sense of wellbeing for the common person- so why should they feel like they owe us something.  

The US can't bother to spare a nickel to homeless tent cities but it can shell out $80 billion bucks to send weapons 5,700 miles away for an insane war with Russia.  The only answer they seem to have for anything is to keep dumping money into failed military strategies.  

I'd like to know what percentage of total war spending goes to active military personnel, versus the trillions that have went to defense contractors over the years.  I dated a girl whose parents worked at Lockheed Martin- you shoulda seen their house.  Just unreal wealth like nothing I'd ever seen.  Then there's the Afghanistan vet I knew who ended up being a Walmart greeter with what appeared to be severe mental health issues.  I'm sure some of you know how it ends for a lot of veterans and it ain't pretty.  

I wish every last one of them would refuse service.  I always tried to talk young people in my orbit out of military service who were thinking about it.  I'd rather our kids sit at home playing on their phones all day than to lose themselves in service to evil.  

 

[whoknew]

Not to go on a tangent, but y'all must be hiring the wrong young people. I see a ton of hard working young'uns. 

I will say, though, that they seem to desire a better work/life balance than I did when I was young. But its hard to criticize them for that.

 

[BladeRunner]

I weep for our nations future:

https://www.kusi.com/u-s-navy-releases-lgbtq-video-providing-directions-on-how-to-use-correct-pronouns/

The coming generations better hope to god that our technology allows them to play video game wars.  Not a single one of them is going to survive on an actual battlefield with this kind of crap being pushed on them. And that's even if they can field a military to begin with.  Ugh.  Just awful.

 

[fruity pebbles]

I weep for our nations future:

https://www.kusi.com/u-s-navy-releases-lgbtq-video-providing-directions-on-how-to-use-correct-pronouns/

The coming generations better hope to god that our technology allows them to play video game wars.  Not a single one of them is going to survive on an actual battlefield with this kind of crap being pushed on them. And that's even if they can field a military to begin with.  Ugh.  Just awful.

no pronouns in Marine Corps boot camp lol. You start a sentence with I and you got poked in the eye. 

 

[glvsav37]

no pronouns in Marine Corps boot camp lol. You start a sentence with I and you got poked in the eye. 

"drop and give me 20 Maggot he/him!!"

"Sir They/Them, Yes Sir They/Them!

 

[MAC_32]

This country is corrupt and our empire is crumbling.  I don't think it's hard for younger people to see that.  The 'serve your country' idea might hold up for the youths, if it weren't clear the govt didn't give a single #### about them or their future.  I don't see white picket fences and retirement in the cards for them or myself for that matter- let alone a livable planet or an earnest sense of wellbeing for the common person- so why should they feel like they owe us something.  

The US can't bother to spare a nickel to homeless tent cities but it can shell out $80 billion bucks to send weapons 5,700 miles away for an insane war with Russia.  The only answer they seem to have for anything is to keep dumping money into failed military strategies.  

I'd like to know what percentage of total war spending goes to active military personnel, versus the trillions that have went to defense contractors over the years.  I dated a girl whose parents worked at Lockheed Martin- you shoulda seen their house.  Just unreal wealth like nothing I'd ever seen.  Then there's the Afghanistan vet I knew who ended up being a Walmart greeter with what appeared to be severe mental health issues.  I'm sure some of you know how it ends for a lot of veterans and it ain't pretty.  

I wish every last one of them would refuse service.  I always tried to talk young people in my orbit out of military service who were thinking about it.  I'd rather our kids sit at home playing on their phones all day than to lose themselves in service to evil.  

Yep. Why would any reasonable person enlist right now.

 

[MAC_32]

Not to go on a tangent, but y'all must be hiring the wrong young people. I see a ton of hard working young'uns. 

I will say, though, that they seem to desire a better work/life balance than I did when I was young. But its hard to criticize them for that.

Same. Our 2 newest hires have been great. Highly motivated, fast learners, tech savvy, hyper efficient, and craving work-life balance. I'm more than willing to bend on that last point to get the first 4.

 

[dkp993]

Not to go on a tangent, but y'all must be hiring the wrong young people. I see a ton of hard working young'uns. 

I will say, though, that they seem to desire a better work/life balance than I did when I was young. But its hard to criticize them for that.

There are good ones out there for sure.  But the ratio is not the same as it use to be.  As someone who has been hiring, managing and leading people for 25+ years now there is a very clear difference. 

 

[Biff84]

My two cents, growing up in the 90s we knew mainly of Operation Desert Storm where we went in and quickly kicked ### and got out. Kids these days grew up during a period where two wars went on forever and every President promised to end them. I don’t think it should surprise anyone that kids aren’t lining up. It’s fun to blame it on wokeness but maybe kids just aren’t interested in fighting in another 20 year war.

 

[GordonGekko]

This is a very good but long read. There are some very concerning time ahead of us on the military recruitment and retention front. 

TLDR version: Times are changing and we have to get creative to fill ranks.  The best and brightest are avoiding the military for dozens of obvious reasons. 

I still think the military, even with it's flaws, is still the best bet for many young Americans today.

Not everyone is built to "code" or survive and work in STEM. With college costs exploding, inflation spinning out of control and housing costs also spiking, there is some value in consistent "cost certainty" for lots of young people.

For people doing the FI/RE movement ( I think it moves past early retirement and might just be plain survival in the future) then it's still not a horrible option. It's not as good as it used to be for the retirement systems, but at least there's a pathway for one.

Want me to unpack the coal from the Xmas stocking, Max Power?

At some level of mass disinterest, there will just be conscription. The vaccine mandates are a clue as to the tone of the current political establishment. Authoritarian regimes blur the line between their military and their federal law enforcement apparatus. Always.

It's more than obvious Team Blue wants a completely federalized law enforcement system.

Put it this way, when things pop off and society starts to collapse, at least those in the service will be trained to use a rifle, likely have a rifle, and have a collective around them that they can hope to form small unit bonds with to survive. That's not great, but it's not horrible.

This will be reinvented when some states finally break off on their own. The Texas Army will be a totally different animal than the current military.

 

[GordonGekko]

This country is corrupt and our empire is crumbling.  I don't think it's hard for younger people to see that. ...

This is also not exclusive to America. Japan is an interesting test case with the "Herbivore Men", just young Japanese men who have literally opted out of formal society. They don't want to be cannon fodder to any obligation period.

There is some push/pull to this because you can't have purpose without some obligation. I think it's good for young people to be purposeful and have purpose in their lives. Being untethered is a type of prison. It's surviving but I wouldn't call it living.

But I agree with you, you are correct. Like Billy said in Predator - We are all going to die here.

I'm not a religious person at all, but I've studied all kinds of religions in my life to better understand the human condition . One aspect is almost universal in organized religion - That the end will come like a thief in the night.

The kid I hired to help take care of the vehicles in my companies motor pool, he's happy go lucky. He just wants to take care of the fleet and stay lost in his own little world. Sometimes I envy that.

Make the most out of today and be thankful for what we have today. I may have to start slaughtering threats tomorrow, but for today, I can find laughter in what I can. That's the context that many young people today don't have and I find it very tragic.

 

[SoBeDad]

What happened to the program Trump stopped that made it easier for enlisted immigrants to become naturalized citizens?

 

[FairWarning]

What happened to the program Trump stopped that made it easier for enlisted immigrants to become naturalized citizens?

Forgot about this - and they should be granted citizenship.

 

[Max Power]

What happened to the program Trump stopped that made it easier for enlisted immigrants to become naturalized citizens?

I'm not sure the details on that, but the Pentagon is looking to recruit harder from the DACA pool of candidates. 

 

[Max Power]

There are good ones out there for sure.  But the ratio is not the same as it use to be.  As someone who has been hiring, managing and leading people for 25+ years now there is a very clear difference. 

I'm guessing some of the better jobs that only need to fill a small amount of openings don't see it as much. When it's a numbers game to fill hundreds of openings, we see a lot of bad candidates and have to take a swing on some. 

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I’ve always had ethica concerns about military recruitment in the U.S. If we are desperate for bodies I would prefer a draft or military service than a system where the government deceives and manipulates people into volunteering. But it feels like we’re more likely to go the opposite direction.

 

[Max Power]

I’ve always had ethica concerns about military recruitment in the U.S. If we are desperate for bodies I would prefer a draft or military service than a system where the government deceives and manipulates people into volunteering. But it feels like we’re more likely to go the opposite direction.

There has always been recruiters promising the world to recruits. Just as many new enlistees who misunderstood or never asked the right questions as well. There are a couple ideas being floated around that aren't terrible though.

The military is open to letting someone pick their first duty station which is something we never knew historically before signing up.  Someone mentioned shorter duty terms as well and I think 2 years could work.  One year is just too short to learn anything and relocate.  

Our military is what backs the US dollar and now that it's slipping, I have some long term concerns. 

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

The military is open to letting someone pick their first duty station which is something we never knew historically before signing up.  Someone mentioned shorter duty terms as well and I think 2 years could work.  One year is just too short to learn anything and relocate.  

These do seem like steps in the right direction.

 

[Max Power]

These do seem like steps in the right direction.

Yeah, I think it's a bandaid fix which might work for now.  I know I'm ragging a lot on the future generation, but right now they strike me as not being able to carry the water. 

I feel parents are enabling this a bit as well.  More kids are living at home longer than ever before.  The country as a whole needs to be more aggressive with getting them out on their own.  

 

[Rich Conway]

The country as a whole needs to be more aggressive with getting them out on their own.

Why?  What's wrong with larger family units and multiple generations living together for longer periods of time?  Lots of successful societies, including the US, have worked that way for long periods of history.

 

[Max Power]

Why?  What's wrong with larger family units and multiple generations living together for longer periods of time?  Lots of successful societies, including the US, have worked that way for long periods of history.

Purely anecdotal, but I know too many people who have adult children still living with them who have no ambition to get better and spread their own wings.  I believe kids won't grow if you don't give them the boot from the nest at some point. 

If a family has a plan in place that works, great.  Too many don't.

 

[MAC_32]

There are good ones out there for sure.  But the ratio is not the same as it use to be.  As someone who has been hiring, managing and leading people for 25+ years now there is a very clear difference. 

I'd be surprised if there wasn't. Between our access to information and the path to financial freedom being more difficult than it ever was before I think it's crazy to expect our youngest generation to behave any differently than what we are seeing. 

 

[Rich Conway]

Purely anecdotal, but I know too many people who have adult children still living with them who have no ambition to get better and spread their own wings.  I believe kids won't grow if you don't give them the boot from the nest at some point. 

If a family has a plan in place that works, great.  Too many don't.

The solution to "families not having a workable plan in place" isn't to throw kids out on the street.  It's to help families create that workable plan.

My broader point being, I think far too many people have the attitude that the way they grew up or the experiences they had are the only appropriate way or best way to grow up.

 

[Max Power]

The solution to "families not having a workable plan in place" isn't to throw kids out on the street.  It's to help families create that workable plan.

My broader point being, I think far too many people have the attitude that the way they grew up or the experiences they had are the only appropriate way or best way to grow up.

And I think sheltering kids from the real world isn't beneficial to them or society in general. I understand letting them stay at home until they can get up on their feet.  What I can't understand is how parents are allowing kids to stay home without trying to better their situation. 

We're becoming a weak society. Its showing front and center in the military. 

 

[MAC_32]

Yeah, I think it's a bandaid fix which might work for now.  I know I'm ragging a lot on the future generation, but right now they strike me as not being able to carry the water. 

I feel parents are enabling this a bit as well.  More kids are living at home longer than ever before.  The country as a whole needs to be more aggressive with getting them out on their own.  

I try not to root my opinions in feelings and anecdotal experiences. Facts are it costs more to educate one's self, to save for a sufficient down payment on a house, to birth a child, to then find child care, live in general, then try to finance your kids from needing to endure a similar path. All while wages have been suppressed for decades, so those kids parents have less accumulated wealth to help fund their respective paths. This is the primary reason why our birthrates have cratered and those that do typically get married and have kids substantially later.

I think it's crazy to expect differently when considering all of that. Why am I enlisting in the military when my country is actively conspiring to make my life more difficult. I think they'd be dummies for not acting otherwise.

 

[Max Power]

I try not to root my opinions in feelings and anecdotal experiences. Facts are it costs more to educate one's self, to save for a sufficient down payment on a house, to birth a child, to then find child care, live in general, then try to finance your kids from needing to endure a similar path. All while wages have been suppressed for decades, so those kids parents have less accumulated wealth to help fund their respective paths. This is the primary reason why our birthrates have cratered and those that do typically get married and have kids substantially later.

I think it's crazy to expect differently when considering all of that. Why am I enlisting in the military when my country is actively conspiring to make my life more difficult. I think they'd be dummies for not acting otherwise.

There are plenty of good paying jobs that don't require a lot of money to get training/education on. Housing rates and child care are always a struggle and I hope the market can correct itself. 

I understand people have reasons to not want to join the military, but the military gives you everything you just identified as issues.  Training/job skills, decent salary, heath care, housing, food, clothing, child care, job stability.  It's available to anyone 17-32(?) who wants it who doesn't have a criminal record or medical issue. 

If my kids are mid 20s with no life goal or plan, I'm probably steering them to the military at that point. Many households won't.

 

[Stoneworker]

The problem is not just theoretical. In addition to NATO expansion, China will soon make even more noise in Asia.

The U.S. will make its biggest military expansion in Europe in decades, including a permanent troop presence in Poland, as NATO prepares for two more members to join the alliance in response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

“We’re stepping up. We’re proving that NATO is more needed now than it ever has been,” President Biden said Wednesday at the opening of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization summit.

The U.S. will add to the 100,000 troops it now has in Europe and deploy more military equipment to NATO allies. The additions include rotational deployments to Romania and the Baltic region, and a permanent Army headquarters base and other units in Poland, the White House said. Until now, the U.S. and other allies have only rotated troops in and out of NATO countries once under Soviet domination, not permanently located them there.

 

[AAABatteries]

I’ve always had ethica concerns about military recruitment in the U.S. If we are desperate for bodies I would prefer a draft or military service than a system where the government deceives and manipulates people into volunteering. But it feels like we’re more likely to go the opposite direction.

I vote for no draft AND no manipulation.

 

[MAC_32]

There are plenty of good paying jobs that don't require a lot of money to get training/education on. Housing rates and child care are always a struggle and I hope the market can correct itself. 

I understand people have reasons to not want to join the military, but the military gives you everything you just identified as issues.  Training/job skills, decent salary, heath care, housing, food, clothing, child care, job stability.  It's available to anyone 17-32(?) who wants it who doesn't have a criminal record or medical issue. 

If my kids are mid 20s with no life goal or plan, I'm probably steering them to the military at that point. Many households won't.

It's not going to. This dynamic has been developing for decades and all signs point to it (among other things) only getting worse. Inflation is a hot topic now because it's impacting consumer goods & services, so it's impacting everyone. Inflation is not a new thing to younger generations though. They've been experiencing it their entire adult lives and as a result are not accumulating wealth like prior generations, which will impact/is impacting the few kids they are having.

Irresponsible spending and poor decision making is not unique to younger generations; that's something that has existed before and will continue to in the future. The problem now vs before is that responsibility doesn't reap rewards, so when the inaction of others is 'why bother' a good counter argument doesn't exist.

 

[Max Power]

It's not going to. This dynamic has been developing for decades and all signs point to it (among other things) only getting worse. Inflation is a hot topic now because it's impacting consumer goods & services, so it's impacting everyone. Inflation is not a new thing to younger generations though. They've been experiencing it their entire adult lives and as a result are not accumulating wealth like prior generations, which will impact/is impacting the few kids they are having.

Irresponsible spending and poor decision making is not unique to younger generations; that's something that has existed before and will continue to in the future. The problem now vs before is that responsibility doesn't reap rewards, so when the inaction of others is 'why bother' a good counter argument doesn't exist.

Pretty grim take, but I'm telling people the military can be a viable lifeline. The fact that people view life as "why bother" is exactly why we're doomed to fail. 

 

[MAC_32]

Pretty grim take, but I'm telling people the military can be a viable lifeline. The fact that people view life as "why bother" is exactly why we're doomed to fail. 

You say grim; I say fair. It isn't how I approach my day-to-day life, but given how this country has (d)evolved over the last couple decades I don't blame an increasingly large % of others from arriving at this conclusion. Why am I going to fight for a country that is actively making my future life more difficult and may leave me high and dry once my services are no longer useful.

 

[Max Power]

You say grim; I say fair. It isn't how I approach my day-to-day life, but given how this country has (d)evolved over the last couple decades I don't blame an increasingly large % of others from arriving at this conclusion. Why am I going to fight for a country that is actively making my future life more difficult and may leave me high and dry once my services are no longer useful.

VA care is better than it used to be, so they are starting to take care of people a bit more. 

I do understand not wanting to join for a variety of reasons. Just not on board with a because this country is difficult to live in one.  Joining the military is an easy way for someone with no education to move from poverty to middle class. 

 

[MAC_32]

VA care is better than it used to be, so they are starting to take care of people a bit more. 

I do understand not wanting to join for a variety of reasons. Just not on board with a because this country is difficult to live in one.  Joining the military is an easy way for someone with no education to move from poverty to middle class. 

I think this is where it is important to define middle class over the last few decades vs what it is now and is trending towards in the future. Is what it used to be something to aspire towards? I think so. Home ownership, family, a path to retirement, etc. But what about now? The math to go from 18 yo to home ownership with kids and saving enough for retirement at current wages doesn't add up.

This is not new news to me nor many others in my generation, I think it's fair to assume that is also the case with those younger, and it's not impacted my decision making...but I understand why it has impacted others. Wishing it out of existence isn't going to change anything either. The only way out involves a period of hurt followed by reform that results in more money in young people's pockets. It's too late for those middle aged like me, but if we stop kicking the can (we won't) then it might not be too late for our kids.

 

[dkp993]

VA care is better than it used to be, so they are starting to take care of people a bit more. 

I do understand not wanting to join for a variety of reasons. Just not on board with a because this country is difficult to live in one.  Joining the military is an easy way for someone with no education to move from poverty to middle class. 

My father in law (special forces during Vietnam war) is in his mid 70’s with a wide range of serious heath issues loves the VA.  And from every indication we can see they have taken great care of him.  

 

[Max Power]

My father in law (special forces during Vietnam war) is in his mid 70’s with a wide range of serious heath issues loves the VA.  And from every indication we can see they have taken great care of him.  

They are hit or miss depending on location. I think they do a decent job with disability compensations although many abuse the system.  High end payout is about 3,500 a month.

VA as a medical provider is more questionable in my opinion.  While I do get free medical care for life, I still pay for a personal plan for my family and I.  VA wait times and quality of care can get rough sometimes.  Seeing the VA in action did push me further away from wanting universal healthcare.  Not because I don't believe in it, but more that I don't have faith in our gov/logistics to get it right. 

 

[Desert_Power]

VA care is better than it used to be, so they are starting to take care of people a bit more. 

I do understand not wanting to join for a variety of reasons. Just not on board with a because this country is difficult to live in one.  Joining the military is an easy way for someone with no education to move from poverty to middle class. 

I have many friends that chose this route once they figured out college was not their path. Most are doing really well with careers as things like mechanics and air traffic controllers that pay very well. A couple have struggled with PTSD and any that served in Iraq/Afghanistan seem to have lost way too many brothers after coming home. Some rough stories.

I had some friends that went to West Point or Citadel as well ( thought seriously about going myself) and those seem like really solid educations we should be looking to expand. People complain about student loans, but forgiving them doesn't solve the supply/demand imbalance we have with college in the US. It feels like expanding actual federal funding for college and expanding the pipelines to our armed forces is a win-win.

For the record, I'm also pro expanding programs like the Peacecorps and Americorps. Paying people to serve this great country, warts and all, has a lot of positive externalities. 

 

[Godsbrother]

My company is also struggling meeting our recruitment goals.   The problem is affecting nearly every industry and apparently the military too

 

[Stoneworker]

My company is also struggling meeting our recruitment goals.   The problem is affecting nearly every industry and apparently the military too

Is your company vital to national security?

 

[Godsbrother]

It doesn't help that The American Left is feminizing our young men, redefining what "woman" means and berating both every chance they get all in the name of The MessageTM.

Hold on a minute:  the "American Left" is also musicalizing our young women so we should be good.

 

[The Z Machine]

Can't we just pay recruits more to join?  Supply / demand and all?

What is the starting salary for an Army private?

 

[Godsbrother]

Is your company vital to national security?

The DOD is one of our biggest customers so that case could be made.   

However that was not my point.   The US Military is competing against businesses so they will likely need to find better ways to attract people to enlist.

 

[Stoneworker]

Can't we just pay recruits more to join?  Supply / demand and all?

What is the starting salary for an Army private?

That's in part what Reagan did and it was definitely helpful.

However, if you're going to go that route expect a ton of resistance from the "cut the military budget" crowd.

It's not just pay, however, there is also a very real increased apathy/resistance vs historically.

 

[Max Power]

Can't we just pay recruits more to join?  Supply / demand and all?

What is the starting salary for an Army private?

About 22K a year.  But they also don't have to pay housing, food, health care, clothing, child care and typically live close enough to work to walk. So its decent money

 

[The Z Machine]

That's in part what Reagan did and it was definitely helpful.

However, if you're going to go that route expect a ton of resistance from the "cut the military budget" crowd.

It's not just pay, however, there is also a very real increased apathy/resistance vs historically.

So wages need to rise in an inflationary environment? Who woulda thunk?

The same thing happens in the private sector.  Lots of managers are being faced with having to offer salaries above theirs to recruit talent. 

The risk is macroeconomic but the problem can be solved with microeconomics. 

 

[The Z Machine]

About 22K a year.  But they also don't have to pay housing, food, health care, clothing, child care and typically live close enough to work to walk. So its decent money

Not with inflation making the value of savings not as strong as they were before. 

 

[Stoneworker]

The DOD is one of our biggest customers so that case could be made.   

However that was not my point.   The US Military is competing against businesses so they will likely need to find better ways to attract people to enlist.

While that has always been true, there is a very real apathy toward military service that has not existed since immediately post-Vietnam.

 

[Stoneworker]

So wages need to rise in an inflationary environment? Who woulda thunk?

The same thing happens in the private sector.  Lots of managers are being faced with having to offer salaries above theirs to recruit talent. 

The risk is macroeconomic but the problem can be solved with microeconomics. 

It's not just pay. You're completely ignoring the contemporary and very real change in attitudes.

I enlisted myself back in the day. I'm definitely no saint but pay had very little to do with the decision. Ditto for my father signing up for WWII.

 

[Ben & Jerry's]

We may need to eliminate some of the useless and bloated departments of government and divert that money to military service. 

 

[Godsbrother]

While that has always been true, there is a very real apathy toward military service that has not existed since immediately post-Vietnam.

Apathy about joining?   I dunno about that but there certainly was a surge of people joining the military after 9/11 that was guaranteed to fall off after time.   Now that we're out of Afghanistan we are not actively involved in a war so it makes sense that there would be a drop off.

The US still holds those that have served and are actively in the military in very high regards, which was not true post-Vietnam.