Every branch of the U.S. military is struggling to meet its 2022 recruiting goals (1 Viewer)

[Stoneworker]

Disagree.  There is no other option.  They MUST step up if those subsequent generations want to continue as a country and or they will have someone else's way of life imposed upon them. 

No kidding. Even if there has been a missed oppty by older generations to pass down and "teach" values of service and sacrifice to maintain a way of life, in the end it doesn't matter. 

 

[dkp993]

How much do baby sitters make around you?!

What % of income is spent on housing, bills and food?

Well if you’re a babysitter probably none, cuz your 12. 

 

[Max Power]

Well if you’re a babysitter probably none, cuz your 12. 

Point was, it's a good entry salary when you consider others are spending 70% of their take home pay on things the military get for free. 

Plus I was trying to figure out what baby sitters are making per hour these days. I'm probably underestimating it because I'm cheap.

 

[Rich Conway]

Point was, it's a good entry salary when you consider others are spending 70% of their take home pay on things the military get for free. 

Plus I was trying to figure out what baby sitters are making per hour these days. I'm probably underestimating it because I'm cheap.

$15-20/hour around here (cash / under the table, of course).

 

[The Commish]

No kidding. Even if there has been a missed oppty by older generations to pass down and "teach" values of service and sacrifice to maintain a way of life, in the end it doesn't matter. 

The opportunity still exists...it's not been missed.  A great many are choosing not to act and then wonder why the kids aren't "just doing it".  It's completely illogical IMO. No one knows what they don't know.

 

[dkp993]

Point was, it's a good entry salary when you consider others are spending 70% of their take home pay on things the military get for free. 

Plus I was trying to figure out what baby sitters are making per hour these days. I'm probably underestimating it because I'm cheap.

I know brother, I was just making a joke

 

[GordonGekko]

Point was, it's a good entry salary when you consider others are spending 70% of their take home pay on things the military get for free. 

Plus I was trying to figure out what baby sitters are making per hour these days. I'm probably underestimating it because I'm cheap.

People are ignoring the value of the training potential.

Obviously not all specialties will translate to the civilian working world and not all soldiers take advantage of their opportunities.

From a social/cultural standpoint, you get to meet people you would never meet otherwise in life. Different people from different backgrounds and different places. That's a type of enrichment that you can't put on a balance sheet.

Shared attrition also creates a bond. For some, it's the only family they've ever had and only time they were accepted into a larger collective.

I'm old enough to have seen the transition from "honest work" to this new BS current age of "status work"

It's why so many people despise so many Limousine Liberals. The prattling and virtue signaling that "There are no small jobs" when there's the tone deaf elitist smug condescension in their airs.

When I was homeless as a teenager, I remember using ketchup I could find and hot water to make a type of tomato soup. I remember eating out of garbage cans. I remember living in constant fear. Some people don't really understand what it means to have four walls and a roof and a hot meal every night. What it means to just take a hot shower. Or have privacy. To feel good about yourself when you walk down the street. Some of the responses here in this thread are predictable but still tragic. When I see people acting like trash, I just feel sorry for their children. Because they instill those toxic values into the innocent. I ate from the trash when I was young and desperate and trying to survive. However, even on the street, I didn't voluntarily choose to behave in a garbage manner. There's a difference, some people in this thread don't understand how patently smug they sound.

What you do for a living doe not define who you are as a person.

How you treat, regard, execute and show your character in what you do for a living is most definitely an indicator of who you are as a person.

 

[Stoneworker]

People are ignoring the value of the training potential.

Obviously not all specialties will translate to the civilian working world and not all soldiers take advantage of their opportunities.

I got paid absolutely squat but in less than two years had met all the technical requirements to become a certified med lab technician.

As you point out, not all specialties translate as well, but easily enough that the concept of value derived from academic, technical and OTJ training beyond $ pay is quite valid.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

The U.S. will make its biggest military expansion in Europe since the Cold War

Europe, Africa and the Middle East are all back on the menu for the US War Machine. Was there ever a doubt a Biden administration would deliver a war to its benefactors?

 

[rustycolts]

Immediately prior to senior year in high school. 1979. 

76 for me I was a Bicentennial soldier. Nam had just ended and so had the draft. If I remember correctly they were having a terrible time recruiting then.

I just read what @Max Powersaid about 28 grand a year for a PFC. I bout crapped my jeans if I was making that I definitely would have been what we affectionately called a lifer. I think I made about $400 bucks a month. 

 

[Navin Johnson]

We may have to touch the third rail and reconsider our policies on national defense.

That might hamper our ability to print greenbacks

 

[Navin Johnson]

There's always a huge inconsistency with this viewpoint from the left IMO.

Seems like liberals always wanting a huge military budget reduction...until something like Ukraine happens. Then the blue team is all military, all the time.

Now Biden openly committing to Taiwan. It's gonna cost major, major bucks supporting an expanded NATO on one front and China on the other.

Democratic politicians have arguably been more hawkish than their counterparts the past few decades

 

[Stoneworker]

Democratic politicians have arguably been more hawkish than their counterparts the past few decades

That would be a decent debate. But I was specifically referring to the military budget, where my assertion is backed up by the following study by AEI. 

These 15 budgets support the common perception that Democrats tend to spend less on defense. On average, Republication administrations increase defense spending by $46.3 billion when they take power and Democrats decrease defense spending by $8.2 billion when they transition into power.

Additionally, the last defense budget of all three Democratic administrations provided DoD less funding than the first budget of the following administration, all of which were Republican.

https://www.aei.org/foreign-and-defense-policy/the-defense-budget-through-administrations/

 

[BladeRunner]

I know brother, I was just making a joke

Leave the comedy to the people that are actually funny.  Like myself. 

 

[dkp993]

Leave the comedy to the people that are actually funny.  Like myself. 

The world of comedy is in some serious trouble if this is the case 

 

[Chaz McNulty]

Leave the comedy to the people that are actually funny.  Like myself. 

I'll admit that you do come up with the odd nugget.  It's the only reason I don't have you on ignore!

 

[KarmaPolice]

I'll admit that you do come up with the odd nugget.  It's the only reason I don't have you on ignore!

The Starship Troopers pull was enough to land him on the never-ignore list.  

 

[BladeRunner]

I'll admit that you do come up with the odd nugget.  It's the only reason I don't have you on ignore!

The Starship Troopers pull was enough to land him on the never-ignore list.  

Thank you very much. 

 

[Orange&Blue]

Not to mention a huge incentive will be gone if student loan forgiveness becomes a reality.

Why spend four years serving when you can go to college for free?

Yeah, people aren't talking about that but recruiters are scared to death of it. 

 

[The Dude]

Not sure if it was pointed out but this year is also a record low in newly eligible candidates.

 

[roadkill1292]

Not sure if it was pointed out but this year is also a record low in newly eligible candidates.

Are you talking about the decline in birth rates or something else? We've mentioned it as a trend that could affect future recruitment but I thought the raw numbers from 18 years ago were not substantially different from the immediately preceding years. My memory's not all that great, though.

 

[The Z Machine]

Are you talking about the decline in birth rates or something else? We've mentioned it as a trend that could affect future recruitment but I thought the raw numbers from 18 years ago were not substantially different from the immediately preceding years. My memory's not all that great, though.

The impact of limiting immigration during the Trump years will have negative demographic effects. 

 

[Max Power]

Are you talking about the decline in birth rates or something else? We've mentioned it as a trend that could affect future recruitment but I thought the raw numbers from 18 years ago were not substantially different from the immediately preceding years. My memory's not all that great, though.

The obesity rate in children and teens has been increasing yearly forever. The pandemic exacerbated the childhood obesity crisis and in all likelyhood inflation will keep driving the rate up as junk food is a cheaper option.

The military has certain bmi requirements that limit the candidate pool. That's a big reason for a shrinking eligible candidate numbers. 

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

The obesity rate in children and teens has been increasing yearly forever. The pandemic exacerbated the childhood obesity crisis and in all likelyhood inflation will keep driving the rate up as junk food is a cheaper option.

The military has certain bmi requirements that limit the candidate pool. That's a big reason for a shrinking eligible candidate numbers. 

What do you think about allowing obese people to join the military?  Aren’t there at least some roles in the military that don’t really require great physical ability?

I’m asking as a total civilian, maybe there are reasons for the requirements I’m not thinking of.

 

[Max Power]

What do you think about allowing obese people to join the military?  Aren’t there at least some roles in the military that don’t really require great physical ability?

I’m asking as a total civilian, maybe there are reasons for the requirements I’m not thinking of.

I think the military could be less strict about their requirement. I don't think your height/weight should matter as long as you can pass the same physical requirements as everyone else.  Like everything else, some jobs require more physically fit people than others.  Some places like ships, submarines, aircraft and ground artillery really are not meant for large people.  I'm about 6'2 230 and I struggle to get around in some of these spots. 

There are a good amount of jobs that are basically desk jobs in the military though. No matter your specialty everyone gets a base level combat training and is expected to at a minimum provide defense and first responder assistance. So again as long as they can do that, I think we should allow them. 

I can see this being an area that we have to compromise on a little going forward, but that also isn't something we should be happy about. 

 

[ZADO]

Give automatic citizenship to any immigrants of age to be in the service , no waiting in line and their immediate families get in as well . 

 

[The Z Machine]

Give automatic citizenship to any immigrants of age to be in the service , no waiting in line and their immediate families get in as well . 

That sounds more mercenary than just upping the pay rate for American volunteers. 

 

[ZADO]

That sounds more mercenary than just upping the pay rate for American volunteers. 

whatever works ,its a win/win
 

 

[Max Power]

We're so spoiled that migrants are probably more willing to die for American values than Americans are. 

 

[Nugget]

whatever works ,its a win/win
 

Immigrant citizenship as a soldier

Immigrant soldiers in the U.S. military often use their service as a catalyst to apply for and gain citizenship. Traditionally, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) honored that service with a fast-tracked pathway to naturalization—granting soldiers citizenship to a country they already risked their lives for seemed beyond fair.

But that has recently changed. New USCIS data shows that the numbers of immigrant soldiers applying for and earning citizenship have plummeted. In total, military naturalizations have dropped 65 percent since the Trump administration created stricter policies for immigrant service members.

 

[Desert_Power]

That sounds more mercenary than just upping the pay rate for American volunteers. 

¿Por que no los dos?

 

[Rich Conway]

This was an interesting read.

https://taskandpurpose.com/opinion/why-no-one-wants-to-join-the-army/

 

[bigbottom]

This should help.

Space Force Official Song

 

[FairWarning]

This should help.

Space Force Official Song

They are not a recognized academy until they appear on Notre Dame’s schedule.

 

[Summer Wheat]

I quit school in the 10th grade and I grew out my hair
I got me a job doing lawnmower repair

I met an army recruiter down at the Wynn Dixie
He said "son, you've no future, pack up and go with me"
The first place we landed was a base called Ballad
They convoyed our asses to a 10 acre F.O.B
With my boots and my cover and an old M16
Two bottles of water and a cold M.R.E

Oh, you'll meet lots of new friends and you're sure to get paid
We'll show you the world and we'll teach you a trade
It's not a job, it's an adventure, oh yes sir, I got that
Ah, but you never told me I'd get my *** shot at
Yes, You never told me I'd get my *** shot at

 

[Caveman33]

I think the military has a growing financial problem that isn't talked about much. (I talk about it a lot). Nearly 50% of current enlistees collect monthly disability percentages after their time, sometimes as little as a year, in the military. This adds a substantial amount to the yearly military budget. And the rate of claimed disability is increasing as it becomes more of a selling point/reason why people join. Within the military, it is talked about frequently and everyone is encouraged to get as much as they can (document every ache and pain).

The miitary is undeniably becoming softer, physically. Standards are lowered for equality. "Broke dicks" or soldiers on medical profiles that prevent them from doing anything physical can malinger for years or careers. I suspect that people who are naturally soft are more prone to experiencing injuries that they feel are worthy of disability. I believe the trend will continue and an even greater rate of soldiers claiming disability in the future may completely overwhelm the system.

All these "wounded warriors" are great for our economy. Think of all the taxpayer money they spend and the medical personnel needed to keep up with their appointments. They are creating jobs! (Sarcasm from an economics thread).

 

[Max Power]

This should help.

Space Force Official Song

Sadly Space Force is the only branch who can be picky about recruits.

The Army will take you of you have a heart beat and a covid shot. We will even take someone with a jacked up heart beat because of the covid shot.

 

[Max Power]

I think the military has a growing financial problem that isn't talked about much. (I talk about it a lot). Nearly 50% of current enlistees collect monthly disability percentages after their time, sometimes as little as a year, in the military. This adds a substantial amount to the yearly military budget. And the rate of claimed disability is increasing as it becomes more of a selling point/reason why people join. Within the military, it is talked about frequently and everyone is encouraged to get as much as they can (document every ache and pain).

The miitary is undeniably becoming softer, physically. Standards are lowered for equality. "Broke dicks" or soldiers on medical profiles that prevent them from doing anything physical can malinger for years or careers. I suspect that people who are naturally soft are more prone to experiencing injuries that they feel are worthy of disability. I believe the trend will continue and an even greater rate of soldiers claiming disability in the future may completely overwhelm the system.

All these "wounded warriors" are great for our economy. Think of all the taxpayer money they spend and the medical personnel needed to keep up with their appointments. They are creating jobs! (Sarcasm from an economics thread).

You aren't wrong, but this is a reflection on society as a whole. PTSD is so freely tossed around in the civilian world that by contrast every member of the military has PTSD.

I know way too many people abusing the system, but it is what it is. Everyone is abusing loopholes in their industry, I wouldnt expect different from the military members.

 

[Caveman33]

I think the military has a growing financial problem that isn't talked about much. (I talk about it a lot). Nearly 50% of current enlistees collect monthly disability percentages after their time, sometimes as little as a year, in the military. This adds a substantial amount to the yearly military budget. And the rate of claimed disability is increasing as it becomes more of a selling point/reason why people join. Within the military, it is talked about frequently and everyone is encouraged to get as much as they can (document every ache and pain).

The miitary is undeniably becoming softer, physically. Standards are lowered for equality. "Broke dicks" or soldiers on medical profiles that prevent them from doing anything physical can malinger for years or careers. I suspect that people who are naturally soft are more prone to experiencing injuries that they feel are worthy of disability. I believe the trend will continue and an even greater rate of soldiers claiming disability in the future may completely overwhelm the system.

All these "wounded warriors" are great for our economy. Think of all the taxpayer money they spend and the medical personnel needed to keep up with their appointments. They are creating jobs! (Sarcasm from an economics thread).

You aren't wrong, but this is a reflection on society as a whole. PTSD is so freely tossed around in the civilian world that by contrast every member of the military has PTSD.

I know way too many people abusing the system, but it is what it is. Everyone is abusing loopholes in their industry, I wouldnt expect different from the military members.

I completely agree. The military is a diverse collection of average people from our society so I assume the same abuses of the system are happening in every industry.

 

[Max Power]

Yyeah, the mi

I think military has a growing financial problem that isn't talked about much. (I talk about it a lot). Nearly 50% of current enlistees collect monthly disability percentages after their time, sometimes as little as a year, in the military. This adds a substantial amount to the yearly military budget. And the rate of claimed disability is increasing as it becomes more of a selling point/reason why people join. Within the military, it is talked about frequently and everyone is encouraged to get as much as they can (document every ache and pain).

The miitary is undeniably becoming softer, physically. Standards are lowered for equality. "Broke dicks" or soldiers on medical profiles that prevent them from doing anything physical can malinger for years or careers. I suspect that people who are naturally soft are more prone to experiencing injuries that they feel are worthy of disability. I believe the trend will continue and an even greater rate of soldiers claiming disability in the future may completely overwhelm the system.

All these "wounded warriors" are great for our economy. Think of all the taxpayer money they spend and the medical personnel needed to keep up with their appointments. They are creating jobs! (Sarcasm from an economics thread).

You aren't wrong, but this is a reflection on society as a whole. PTSD is so freely tossed around in the civilian world that by contrast every member of the military has PTSD.

I know way too many people abusing the system, but it is what it is. Everyone is abusing loopholes in their industry, I wouldnt expect different from the military members.

I completely agree. The military is a diverse collection of average people from our society so I assume the same abuses of the system are happening in every industry.

The military isnt for everyone. I've been attached to it in some form or another since 2001. I'm not going to promote it to my children, but I'll be honest about the pros and cons if they are interested.

I would recommend it to anyone "lost" or with limited prospects because they can easily climb the socioeconomic ladder. If they play their cards right, it's a game changer for a family.

For reference... IF the VA disability rate increases ~10% like its rumored to, a married vet with a couple kids at 100% will get almost 4k a month tax free in disability payments. This doesn't preclude them from getting a full time job on top of these payments.

Someone can be 70% disabled based on PTSD alone.

 

[Caveman33]

Yyeah, the mi

I think military has a growing financial problem that isn't talked about much. (I talk about it a lot). Nearly 50% of current enlistees collect monthly disability percentages after their time, sometimes as little as a year, in the military. This adds a substantial amount to the yearly military budget. And the rate of claimed disability is increasing as it becomes more of a selling point/reason why people join. Within the military, it is talked about frequently and everyone is encouraged to get as much as they can (document every ache and pain).

The miitary is undeniably becoming softer, physically. Standards are lowered for equality. "Broke dicks" or soldiers on medical profiles that prevent them from doing anything physical can malinger for years or careers. I suspect that people who are naturally soft are more prone to experiencing injuries that they feel are worthy of disability. I believe the trend will continue and an even greater rate of soldiers claiming disability in the future may completely overwhelm the system.

All these "wounded warriors" are great for our economy. Think of all the taxpayer money they spend and the medical personnel needed to keep up with their appointments. They are creating jobs! (Sarcasm from an economics thread).

You aren't wrong, but this is a reflection on society as a whole. PTSD is so freely tossed around in the civilian world that by contrast every member of the military has PTSD.

I know way too many people abusing the system, but it is what it is. Everyone is abusing loopholes in their industry, I wouldnt expect different from the military members.

I completely agree. The military is a diverse collection of average people from our society so I assume the same abuses of the system are happening in every industry.

The military isnt for everyone. I've been attached to it in some form or another since 2001. I'm not going to promote it to my children, but I'll be honest about the pros and cons if they are interested.

I would recommend it to anyone "lost" or with limited prospects because they can easily climb the socioeconomic ladder. If they play their cards right, it's a game changer for a family.

For reference... IF the VA disability rate increases ~10% like its rumored to, a married vet with a couple kids at 100% will get almost 4k a month tax free in disability payments. This doesn't preclude them from getting a full time job on top of these payments.

Someone can be 70% disabled based on PTSD alone.

I'm using the GI Bill right now, going to 6 month technical schools like music production, barbering, etc. I'm getting $5K per month to attend, making it my best paying job to date. After I extract all the $$ from the GI Bill, I plan to try to go active again. I have a fat mental health file with forced psych commitments, which I was warned would restrict me from owning a weapon. I also had a few surgeries while active which still cause me issues now. But I can meet all the physical standards, pass an APFT, etc, so I figure if the military rejects me from re-enlisting, then maybe I have an ethical loophole to claim disability without being the world's worst hypocrite.

If the military finds me unemployable, how could I possibly be expected to work any job? 60% pays $1,200 tax free per month. I could comfortably live here on that, or be a globe trotting third world playboy.

 

[Gmail]

Marines hit all its recruitment goals for 2022
Navy, Air Force and Space Force meet their enlistment goals. Army fails by 15k.

 

[The Z Machine]

Everyone is abusing loopholes in their industry, I wouldnt expect different from the military members.

Eh... I don't think that's true. I really don't know anyone I work with that is abusing their benefits or gaming the system.

 

[Max Power]

Everyone is abusing loopholes in their industry, I wouldnt expect different from the military members.

Eh... I don't think that's true. I really don't know anyone I work with that is abusing their benefits or gaming the system.

I guess it all boils down to what abusing the system means to each person. Take myself for example. I filed a VA rating. They gave me a percentage. I was turned on to a lawyer who helps with claims. They refiled my stuff and I was bumped up 50% just based on how they worded my filing and the doctors used to evaluate my conditions. My medical record is still my medical record. The lawyers just know what words to use, so yeah its a game...

 

[Max Power]

Marines hit all its recruitment goals for 2022
Navy, Air Force and Space Force meet their enlistment goals. Army fails by 15k.

It's interesting how the Marines framed that. They revised their enlistment goals down by 2,400 in 2022, so yes they met the goal. However they claimed to have done this because of retention rates, which is the first time the Marines hit retention goals in almost 10 years. I'm not sure that will last.

Compounding the issue is that anywhere between 3k-9k Marines remain unvaccinated and will not be allowed to reenlist when their time is up. So maybe goals were "met", but there is a still a crisis brewing.

 

[Herb]

I guess it all boils down to what abusing the system means to each person. Take myself for example. I filed a VA rating. They gave me a percentage. I was turned on to a lawyer who helps with claims. They refiled my stuff and I was bumped up 50% just based on how they worded my filing and the doctors used to evaluate my conditions. My medical record is still my medical record. The lawyers just know what words to use, so yeah its a game...

My wife performs psychological evaluations on veterans to qualify them for military benefits. Of the hundreds of soldiers she's met with, she said only a handful were clearly gaming the system. Most of them do carry some level of PTSD around with them. Anecdotally, of the family, friends and acquaintances I know that went into the military, all of them came home from basic as different people than when they left. Flat out, joining the US armed forces changes people. You may argue that many of them change for the better, and in some cases, that might be true. But in my experience, the changes aren't typically positive. And the PTSD, even in soldiers that never saw live combat, is very real.

I would never besmirch you or anyone else that chose a path of service. But I sure as hell don't want my kids to do it. It's a great way to get F'ed up in a hurry.

 

[(HULK)]

I think they should raise pay. Inflation has been nuts for 18 months now, people don't join up if they don't think they're getting something. It's already very low pay, inflation has just exaggerated this.

 

[Gmail]

I guess it all boils down to what abusing the system means to each person. Take myself for example. I filed a VA rating. They gave me a percentage. I was turned on to a lawyer who helps with claims. They refiled my stuff and I was bumped up 50% just based on how they worded my filing and the doctors used to evaluate my conditions. My medical record is still my medical record. The lawyers just know what words to use, so yeah its a game...

My wife performs psychological evaluations on veterans to qualify them for military benefits. Of the hundreds of soldiers she's met with, she said only a handful were clearly gaming the system. Most of them do carry some level of PTSD around with them. Anecdotally, of the family, friends and acquaintances I know that went into the military, all of them came home from basic as different people than when they left. Flat out, joining the US armed forces changes people. You may argue that many of them change for the better, and in some cases, that might be true. But in my experience, the changes aren't typically positive. And the PTSD, even in soldiers that never saw live combat, is very real.

I would never besmirch you or anyone else that chose a path of service. But I sure as hell don't want my kids to do it. It's a great way to get F'ed up in a hurry.

Please tell her thank you for her service to Vets.

 

[Max Power]

I guess it all boils down to what abusing the system means to each person. Take myself for example. I filed a VA rating. They gave me a percentage. I was turned on to a lawyer who helps with claims. They refiled my stuff and I was bumped up 50% just based on how they worded my filing and the doctors used to evaluate my conditions. My medical record is still my medical record. The lawyers just know what words to use, so yeah its a game...

My wife performs psychological evaluations on veterans to qualify them for military benefits. Of the hundreds of soldiers she's met with, she said only a handful were clearly gaming the system. Most of them do carry some level of PTSD around with them. Anecdotally, of the family, friends and acquaintances I know that went into the military, all of them came home from basic as different people than when they left. Flat out, joining the US armed forces changes people. You may argue that many of them change for the better, and in some cases, that might be true. But in my experience, the changes aren't typically positive. And the PTSD, even in soldiers that never saw live combat, is very real.

I would never besmirch you or anyone else that chose a path of service. But I sure as hell don't want my kids to do it. It's a great way to get F'ed up in a hurry.

I agree with you that PTSD is very real and probably not everyone even recognizes they have it. You have to change your mindset just to get through some experiences. My personal opinion is that PTSD gets too easily diagnosed, but that is also coming from a person with a substantial PTSD rating. The military hardens a person. They need to. So when the civilian standard of PTSD is applied, it feels low in my opinion.

That said, I agree that I'd promote the military to my children. If they want to go that course, I'll guide them, but it is best to steer clear these days.

 

[Rich Conway]

Everyone is abusing loopholes in their industry, I wouldnt expect different from the military members.

Eh... I don't think that's true. I really don't know anyone I work with that is abusing their benefits or gaming the system.

A better way to say this would be "Every industry has people that abuse the system", which is certainly true and probably the sentiment that Max intended to convey, but not every person in every industry abuses the system.