Execution of 80 in North Korea? (1 Viewer)

[The Commish]

Link

North Korea staged gruesome public executions of 80 people this month, some for offenses as minor as watching South Korean entertainment videos or being found in possession of a Bible, a South Korean newspaper reported Monday.

The single source is from South Korea...wonder if it's true.

 

[cstu]

The single source is from South Korea...wonder if it's true.

No reason to doubt it, they aren't especially picky about who they kill.

 

[The Commish]

The single source is from South Korea...wonder if it's true.

No reason to doubt it, they aren't especially picky about who they kill.

I know it's tough to get the "truth" out of places like NK, but man....stuff like this makes me so sad.

 

[Sarnoff]

Kim Jong Un just executed his ex-girlfriend and a bunch of her friends and family because his new wife was a bit jealous. They have mass executions all the time there. It's a pretty common part of life.

 

[cstu]

The single source is from South Korea...wonder if it's true.

No reason to doubt it, they aren't especially picky about who they kill.

I know it's tough to get the "truth" out of places like NK, but man....stuff like this makes me so sad.

Vice had an episode about helping people escape NK to China only to have them get caught in China and deported back to NK where they know they'll be executed. To me it's like Jews being helped to escape Nazi Germany and Sweden sending them back because they don't want to get into a war with them. Absolutely sickening.

 

[timschochet]

Kim Jong Un just executed his ex-girlfriend and a bunch of her friends and family because his new wife was a bit jealous. They have mass executions all the time there. It's a pretty common part of life.

I was sorta hoping that he was going to be different from his dad.

Calling Dennis Rodman! We need you, Dennis.

 

[Socrates11]

80? Isn't that just another day in North Korea? On Two-for-Tuesday I heard they'll execute 160 for the price of 80.

 

[culdeus]

Link

North Korea staged gruesome public executions of 80 people this month, some for offenses as minor as watching South Korean entertainment videos or being found in possession of a Bible, a South Korean newspaper reported Monday.

The single source is from South Korea...wonder if it's true.

Gangam style?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

The single source is from South Korea...wonder if it's true.

No reason to doubt it, they aren't especially picky about who they kill.

I know it's tough to get the "truth" out of places like NK, but man....stuff like this makes me so sad.

Stalinism Communism has had tens of millions of victims.

 

[NCCommish]

The single source is from South Korea...wonder if it's true.

No reason to doubt it, they aren't especially picky about who they kill.

I know it's tough to get the "truth" out of places like NK, but man....stuff like this makes me so sad.

Stalinism Communism has had tens of millions of victims.

There has never been a truly communistic state. So no it hasn't.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

The single source is from South Korea...wonder if it's true.

No reason to doubt it, they aren't especially picky about who they kill.

I know it's tough to get the "truth" out of places like NK, but man....stuff like this makes me so sad.

Stalinism Communism has had tens of millions of victims.

There has never been a truly communistic state. So no it hasn't.

Oh that old ruse.

Ok states calling themselves communist have killed tens of millions.

Much clunkier, but there.

These countries are arguably say Leninist, and not truly Marxist communist perhaps, but then Marx never was a 'what happens the day after' kind of guy.

 

[Fennis]

I can't believe we let NK pass us up like that.

 

[NCCommish]

The single source is from South Korea...wonder if it's true.

No reason to doubt it, they aren't especially picky about who they kill.

I know it's tough to get the "truth" out of places like NK, but man....stuff like this makes me so sad.

Stalinism Communism has had tens of millions of victims.

There has never been a truly communistic state. So no it hasn't.

Oh that old ruse.

Ok states calling themselves communist have killed tens of millions.

Much clunkier, but there.

These countries are arguably say Leninist, and not truly Marxist communist perhaps, but then Marx never was a 'what happens the day after' kind of guy.

I know it seems nitpicky but calling yourself something is not the same as being that thing.

 

[T Bell]

The single source is from South Korea...wonder if it's true.

No reason to doubt it, they aren't especially picky about who they kill.

I know it's tough to get the "truth" out of places like NK, but man....stuff like this makes me so sad.

Stalinism Communism has had tens of millions of victims.

There has never been a truly communistic state. So no it hasn't.

And nit-picky icommentators have more victims than that.

 

[NCCommish]

The single source is from South Korea...wonder if it's true.

No reason to doubt it, they aren't especially picky about who they kill.

I know it's tough to get the "truth" out of places like NK, but man....stuff like this makes me so sad.

Stalinism Communism has had tens of millions of victims.

There has never been a truly communistic state. So no it hasn't.

And nit-picky icommentators have more victims than that.

The cursor is mightier than the sword.

 

[Koya]

In North Korea, overtime sudden deaths you!

(Too soon?)

 

[Schlzm]

The single source is from South Korea...wonder if it's true.

No reason to doubt it, they aren't especially picky about who they kill.

I know it's tough to get the "truth" out of places like NK, but man....stuff like this makes me so sad.

Stalinism Communism has had tens of millions of victims.

There has never been a truly communistic state. So no it hasn't.

Oh that old ruse.

Ok states calling themselves communist have killed tens of millions.

Much clunkier, but there.

These countries are arguably say Leninist, and not truly Marxist communist perhaps, but then Marx never was a 'what happens the day after' kind of guy.

I know it seems nitpicky but calling yourself something is not the same as being that thing.

Wait a minute! They aren't a Democratic Peoples Republic? But the welcome pamphlet said they offered the purest form of personal wealth and freedom in the world! Schlzm

 

[cstu]

There has never been a truly communistic state. So no it hasn't.

Leader 1: "Yay, we just started a communist state, this will be great for everybody!"

Leader 2: "So now we're in charge of everybody and make people do anything we want?"

Leader 1: "Umm...yeah...not sure where you going with this..."

 

[Big Cat]

The execution of Kim Jong Un's uncle, Jang Song Thaek, is worth a chuckle.

After the younger Mr. Kim's succession, Mr. Jang "behaved so arrogantly and insolently as unwillingly standing up from his seat and halfheartedly clapping"

 

[mquinnjr]

Have to keep the people in line somehow.

 

[NCCommish]

Jang thought he was untouchable. He is family after all. He was wrong.

 

[T Bell]

The execution of Kim Jong Un's uncle, Jang Song Thaek, is worth a chuckle.

After the younger Mr. Kim's succession, Mr. Jang "behaved so arrogantly and insolently as unwillingly standing up from his seat and halfheartedly clapping"

As ridiculous as this is, it's actually not unprecedented at all. The Soviet Party Congress under Stalin installed a bell to signal when to stop clapping for him as people were afraid to be the first to stop. True story.

 

[Big Cat]

The execution of Kim Jong Un's uncle, Jang Song Thaek, is worth a chuckle.

After the younger Mr. Kim's succession, Mr. Jang "behaved so arrogantly and insolently as unwillingly standing up from his seat and halfheartedly clapping"

As ridiculous as this is, it's actually not unprecedented at all. The Soviet Party Congress under Stalin installed a bell to signal when to stop clapping for him as people were afraid to be the first to stop. True story.

Reminds me of this headline. 6 months in a labor camp for not mourning hard enough after the death of Kim Jong Il.

 

[Quez]

Watch this 60 min episode

If you want to hear an inside story on what happens in a North Korean prison camp, then I suggest you watch the interview above.

-he was born in a prison camp

-if someone does something wrong, 3 generation of your family is sent to jail

-they eat roaches, rats, and frogs

-they carry skinned frogs in plastic bags to snack on

-the guy snitched out his own mother & brother who were trying to escape (he was that brainwashed)

-had to watch them get executed

-they tortured him by holding his back over hot coals

-he climbed over another prisoners dead electrocuted body to escape and not touch electric fence

 

[GroveDiesel]

The execution of Kim Jong Un's uncle, Jang Song Thaek, is worth a chuckle.

After the younger Mr. Kim's succession, Mr. Jang "behaved so arrogantly and insolently as unwillingly standing up from his seat and halfheartedly clapping"

It will be interesting to see how or if that affects their relationship with China since he was their point of contact with China. No real other envoys other than him.

 

[T Bell]

It bears mentioning that his death had nothing to do with half-hearted applause. I'm sure that he was doing what he'd normally done and what most other officials were doing. That accusation is just used to fill out a list that is intended to make him look like a selfish, arrogant sell-out to the party. Still, it's undeniably comical.

 

[culdeus]

Someone needs to explain to me why China still guards them. I have heard the theory that they let NK go on like this because it makes them look better by comparison.

 

[T Bell]

Someone needs to explain to me why China still guards them. I have heard the theory that they let NK go on like this because it makes them look better by comparison.

It's a big distractor for powers who'd be otherwise focused upon China, and it's a buffer state between them and South Korea.

 

[NCCommish]

It bears mentioning that his death had nothing to do with half-hearted applause. I'm sure that he was doing what he'd normally done and what most other officials were doing. That accusation is just used to fill out a list that is intended to make him look like a selfish, arrogant sell-out to the party. Still, it's undeniably comical.

Actually that was the lead when his arrest was reported. That his nephew didn't like him not being cowed. Every other charge levied is simply what everyone who lives in the privileged ranks do everyday. I think this really was mainly about juniors ego and was a way for him to keep everyone on their toes. If he will kill this guy no one is safe.

 

[T Bell]

It bears mentioning that his death had nothing to do with half-hearted applause. I'm sure that he was doing what he'd normally done and what most other officials were doing. That accusation is just used to fill out a list that is intended to make him look like a selfish, arrogant sell-out to the party. Still, it's undeniably comical.

Actually that was the lead when his arrest was reported. That his nephew didn't like him not being cowed. Every other charge levied is simply what everyone who lives in the privileged ranks do everyday. I think this really was mainly about juniors ego and was a way for him to keep everyone on their toes. If he will kill this guy no one is safe.

We definitely agree upon this. This was about consolidation of power.

 

[Big Cat]

It bears mentioning that his death had nothing to do with half-hearted applause. I'm sure that he was doing what he'd normally done and what most other officials were doing. That accusation is just used to fill out a list that is intended to make him look like a selfish, arrogant sell-out to the party. Still, it's undeniably comical.

Actually that was the lead when his arrest was reported. That his nephew didn't like him not being cowed. Every other charge levied is simply what everyone who lives in the privileged ranks do everyday. I think this really was mainly about juniors ego and was a way for him to keep everyone on their toes. If he will kill this guy no one is safe.

We definitely agree upon this. This was about consolidation of power.

Almost like here in the 'hood. All about respek.

 

[Quez]

Someone needs to explain to me why China still guards them. I have heard the theory that they let NK go on like this because it makes them look better by comparison.

They trade with them, and if anything happens they would be flooded with refugees.

 

[GroveDiesel]

You know what's crazy? This guy went to college in England. He had normal roommates. Can you imagine being one of those guys now? From their earlier reports, they actually thought he seemed fairly normal and was kind of westernized. Now it's like 10 years later and the guy just executed 80 people and his uncle.

I bet he's one former college roommate that doesn't get a wedding invite.

 

[culdeus]

Someone needs to explain to me why China still guards them. I have heard the theory that they let NK go on like this because it makes them look better by comparison.

They trade with them, and if anything happens they would be flooded with refugees.

Someone needs to explain to me why China still guards them. I have heard the theory that they let NK go on like this because it makes them look better by comparison.

They trade with them, and if anything happens they would be flooded with refugees.

Last I checked they have a great need for farmers.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

North Korea runs a modern concentration camp in the mountains of that country. A human atrocity the likes of which would make most in this country sick to their stomach and yet we do nothing to stop it. The next time someone gets all high and mighty about the good ole United Stated, ask them if they have ever heard of North Korea. They torture and brainwash their entire population as well as cut them off from the outside world. It's shameful.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

North Korea runs a modern concentration camp in the mountains of that country. A human atrocity the likes of which would make most in this country sick to their stomach and yet we do nothing to stop it. The next time someone gets all high and mighty about the good ole United Stated, ask them if they have ever heard of North Korea. They torture and brainwash their entire population as well as cut them off from the outside world. It's shameful.

So we shouldn't bring up that 'murica just killed 15 innocent people on their way to a wedding with a drone strike?

 

[higgins]

North Korea runs a modern concentration camp in the mountains of that country. A human atrocity the likes of which would make most in this country sick to their stomach and yet we do nothing to stop it. The next time someone gets all high and mighty about the good ole United Stated, ask them if they have ever heard of North Korea. They torture and brainwash their entire population as well as cut them off from the outside world. It's shameful.

What would you suggest that we, the US, do in that situation? I'm hoping you realize that NK has thousands of artillery tubes aimed at Seoul -- just about any provocation could lead to millions of lives lost and a major world economy kaput within a couple days.

 

[T Bell]

North Korea runs a modern concentration camp in the mountains of that country. A human atrocity the likes of which would make most in this country sick to their stomach and yet we do nothing to stop it. The next time someone gets all high and mighty about the good ole United Stated, ask them if they have ever heard of North Korea. They torture and brainwash their entire population as well as cut them off from the outside world. It's shameful.

What would you suggest that we, the US, do in that situation? I'm hoping you realize that NK has thousands of artillery tubes aimed at Seoul -- just about any provocation could lead to millions of lives lost and a major world economy kaput within a couple days.

We could build a giant Swedish fish and roll it to the gates of Pyongyang...

 

[cstu]

North Korea runs a modern concentration camp in the mountains of that country. A human atrocity the likes of which would make most in this country sick to their stomach and yet we do nothing to stop it. The next time someone gets all high and mighty about the good ole United Stated, ask them if they have ever heard of North Korea. They torture and brainwash their entire population as well as cut them off from the outside world. It's shameful.

So we shouldn't bring up that 'murica just killed 15 innocent people on their way to a wedding with a drone strike?

One official said that Al Qaeda militants are suspected to have been traveling with the wedding convoy.

Oh, and it was an 'accident'.

 

[NCCommish]

North Korea runs a modern concentration camp in the mountains of that country. A human atrocity the likes of which would make most in this country sick to their stomach and yet we do nothing to stop it. The next time someone gets all high and mighty about the good ole United Stated, ask them if they have ever heard of North Korea. They torture and brainwash their entire population as well as cut them off from the outside world. It's shameful.

What would you suggest that we, the US, do in that situation? I'm hoping you realize that NK has thousands of artillery tubes aimed at Seoul -- just about any provocation could lead to millions of lives lost and a major world economy kaput within a couple days.

Yeah there isn't much we can do that wouldn't lead to massive loss of life. They could level Seoul in minutes with conventional weapons along the DMZ. The only way we ever attack them is if it becomes the only way because it will be very, very ugly.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Watch this 60 min episode

If you want to hear an inside story on what happens in a North Korean prison camp, then I suggest you watch the interview above.

-he was born in a prison camp

-if someone does something wrong, 3 generation of your family is sent to jail

-they eat roaches, rats, and frogs

-they carry skinned frogs in plastic bags to snack on

-the guy snitched out his own mother & brother who were trying to escape (he was that brainwashed)

-had to watch them get executed

-they tortured him by holding his back over hot coals

-he climbed over another prisoners dead electrocuted body to escape and not touch electric fence

What a bunch of losers.

 

[glumpy]

Watch this 60 min episode

If you want to hear an inside story on what happens in a North Korean prison camp, then I suggest you watch the interview above.

-he was born in a prison camp

-if someone does something wrong, 3 generation of your family is sent to jail

-they eat roaches, rats, and frogs

-they carry skinned frogs in plastic bags to snack on

-the guy snitched out his own mother & brother who were trying to escape (he was that brainwashed)

-had to watch them get executed

-they tortured him by holding his back over hot coals

-he climbed over another prisoners dead electrocuted body to escape and not touch electric fence

wow. There are more videos in that set. They mention post traumatic stress but given that he had no concept of any other existence it was more apocalyptic than that.

 

[Big Cat]

From today's WSJ:

Following are some of the key points—and rhetorical flourishes–of the statement:

–Mr. Jang “committed such hideous crime as attempting to overthrow the state by all sorts of intrigues and despicable methods with a wild ambition to grab the supreme power of our party and state.”

–“…despicable human scum Jang, who was worse than a dog, perpetrated thrice-cursed acts of treachery in betrayal of such profound trust and warmest paternal love shown by the party and the leader for him.”

–When Kim Jong Un was elected vice-chairman of the Central Military Commission of the Workers’ Party of Korea… “he [Jang] behaved so arrogantly and insolently as unwillingly standing up from his seat and half-heartedly clapping, touching off towering resentment of our service personnel and people.”

–“Jang did serious harm to the youth movement in our country, being part of the group of renegades and traitors in the field of youth work bribed by enemies. Even after they were disclosed and purged by the resolute measure of the party, he patronized those cat’s paws and let them hold important posts of the party and state.”

–“He [Jang] worked hard to put all affairs of the country under his control, massively increasing the staff of his department and organs under it, and stretch his tentacles to ministries and national institutions.”

–“He was so imprudent as to prevent the Taedonggang Tile Factory from erecting a mosaic depicting Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il and a monument to field guidance given by them. Moreover, Jang turned down the unanimous request of the service personnel of a unit of the Korean People’s Internal Security Forces to have the autograph letter sent by Kim Jong Un to the unit carved on a natural granite and erected with good care in front of the building of its command. He was so reckless as to instruct the unit to erect it in a shaded corner.”

–“Dreaming a fantastic dream to become premier at an initial stage to grab the supreme power of the party and state, Jang made his department put major economic fields of the country under its control in a bid to disable the Cabinet. In this way he schemed to drive the economy of the country and people’s living into an uncontrollable catastrophe.”

–“Abusing his authority, he undermined the work system related to the construction of the capital city established by Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il, reducing the construction building-materials bases to such bad shape little short of debris in a few years.”

–“He instructed his stooges to sell coal and other precious underground resources at random. Consequently, his confidants were saddled with huge debts, deceived by brokers.”

–“ Jang made no scruple of committing such act of treachery in May last as selling off the land of the Rason economic and trade zone to a foreign country for a period of five decades under the pretext of paying those debts.”

–“It was none other than Jang who wirepulled behind scene Pak Nam Gi, traitor for all ages, to recklessly issue hundreds of billions of won in 2009, sparking off serious economic chaos and disturbing the people’s mind-set.”

–“Jang encouraged money-making under various pretexts to secure funds necessary for gratifying his political greed and was engrossed in irregularities and corruption. He thus took the lead in spreading indolent, careless and undisciplined virus in our society.”

–“…he set up a secret organ under his control and took a fabulous amount of funds from a bank and purchased rare metals in disregard of the state law. He thus committed such anti-state criminal acts as creating a great confusion in financial management system of the state.”

–“He let the decadent capitalist lifestyle find its way to our society by distributing all sorts of pornographic pictures among his confidants since 2009. He led a dissolute, depraved life, squandering money wherever he went.”

–“He took at least 4.6 million Euro from his secret coffers and squandered it in 2009 alone and enjoyed himself in casino in a foreign country.“

–“Jang was so reckless with his greed for power that he persistently worked to stretch his tentacles even to the People’s Army with a foolish calculation that he would succeed in staging a coup if he mobilized the army.”

The statement ends with the following:

The special military tribunal of the Ministry of State Security of the DPRK confirmed that the state subversion attempted by the accused Jang with an aim to overthrow the people’s power of the DPRK by ideologically aligning himself with enemies is a crime punishable by Article 60 of the DPRK Criminal Code, vehemently condemned him as a wicked political careerist, trickster and traitor for all ages in the name of the revolution and the people and ruled that he would be sentenced to death according to it.

The decision was immediately executed.

 

[culdeus]

This would be funny if it wasn't actually real. Really funny.

 

[QuizGuy66]

It bears mentioning that his death had nothing to do with half-hearted applause. I'm sure that he was doing what he'd normally done and what most other officials were doing. That accusation is just used to fill out a list that is intended to make him look like a selfish, arrogant sell-out to the party. Still, it's undeniably comical.

Actually that was the lead when his arrest was reported. That his nephew didn't like him not being cowed. Every other charge levied is simply what everyone who lives in the privileged ranks do everyday. I think this really was mainly about juniors ego and was a way for him to keep everyone on their toes. If he will kill this guy no one is safe.

We definitely agree upon this. This was about consolidation of power.

Seems like a lot of the analysts aren't surprised that this has happened so much as they are surprised that it happened this early in his reign. North Korea fascinates and horrifies :(

As jarring as the transition was for East Germany after reunification you have to believe it'll be about 100 times more difficult if and when it happens for Korea. The whole leadership could disappear tomorrow and surrender to the South Korean government and would still probably take a good 5 decades of deprogramming :(

-QG

 

[Ministry of Pain]

North Korea runs a modern concentration camp in the mountains of that country. A human atrocity the likes of which would make most in this country sick to their stomach and yet we do nothing to stop it. The next time someone gets all high and mighty about the good ole United Stated, ask them if they have ever heard of North Korea. They torture and brainwash their entire population as well as cut them off from the outside world. It's shameful.

What would you suggest that we, the US, do in that situation? I'm hoping you realize that NK has thousands of artillery tubes aimed at Seoul -- just about any provocation could lead to millions of lives lost and a major world economy kaput within a couple days.

Yeah there isn't much we can do that wouldn't lead to massive loss of life. They could level Seoul in minutes with conventional weapons along the DMZ. The only way we ever attack them is if it becomes the only way because it will be very, very ugly.

So if it is going to be a tough battle we tend to shy away. Why does the World put up with it? How does the United Nations even acknowledge North Korea? How do we put up with them detaining an 85 year old American?

China should be ousted from the United Nations for being their big brother. If China will not denounce them then they are guilt by association. You cannot allow this to go on and yet we as a nation and also the world allow it to keep going.

It's time to do something, half measure don't work.

 

[Dickies]

Everything NK does reads like an Onion article.

 

[NCCommish]

North Korea runs a modern concentration camp in the mountains of that country. A human atrocity the likes of which would make most in this country sick to their stomach and yet we do nothing to stop it. The next time someone gets all high and mighty about the good ole United Stated, ask them if they have ever heard of North Korea. They torture and brainwash their entire population as well as cut them off from the outside world. It's shameful.

What would you suggest that we, the US, do in that situation? I'm hoping you realize that NK has thousands of artillery tubes aimed at Seoul -- just about any provocation could lead to millions of lives lost and a major world economy kaput within a couple days.

Yeah there isn't much we can do that wouldn't lead to massive loss of life. They could level Seoul in minutes with conventional weapons along the DMZ. The only way we ever attack them is if it becomes the only way because it will be very, very ugly.

So if it is going to be a tough battle we tend to shy away. Why does the World put up with it? How does the United Nations even acknowledge North Korea? How do we put up with them detaining an 85 year old American?

China should be ousted format he United Nations for being their big brother. If China will not denounce them then they are guilt by association. You cannot allow this to go on and yet we as a nation and also the world allow it to keep going.

It's time to do something, half measure don't work.

NK is already the most isolated state on the planet. And if people start getting kicked out of the UN for people they are friends with how the hell do we hold the high ground there? Have you met some of the regimes we support?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Seems like a lot of the analysts aren't surprised that this has happened so much as they are surprised that it happened this early in his reign. North Korea fascinates and horrifies :(


As jarring as the transition was for East Germany after reunification you have to believe it'll be about 100 times more difficult if and when it happens for Korea. The whole leadership could disappear tomorrow and surrender to the South Korean government and would still probably take a good 5 decades of deprogramming :(

-QG

The citizens of North Korea? it is so sad to see millions of people under brainwashing, entire generations now have no idea it was ever different. They brainwash these citizens into thinking that that whoever is the North Korean leader is basically the Son of God. It's scary that this has happened and is happening in 2013. The pictures of KJ running around saber rattling last year in bunkers with 1950s/60s technology was very telling.

 

[T Bell]

It bears mentioning that his death had nothing to do with half-hearted applause. I'm sure that he was doing what he'd normally done and what most other officials were doing. That accusation is just used to fill out a list that is intended to make him look like a selfish, arrogant sell-out to the party. Still, it's undeniably comical.

Actually that was the lead when his arrest was reported. That his nephew didn't like him not being cowed. Every other charge levied is simply what everyone who lives in the privileged ranks do everyday. I think this really was mainly about juniors ego and was a way for him to keep everyone on their toes. If he will kill this guy no one is safe.

We definitely agree upon this. This was about consolidation of power.

Seems like a lot of the analysts aren't surprised that this has happened so much as they are surprised that it happened this early in his reign. North Korea fascinates and horrifies :(

As jarring as the transition was for East Germany after reunification you have to believe it'll be about 100 times more difficult if and when it happens for Korea. The whole leadership could disappear tomorrow and surrender to the South Korean government and would still probably take a good 5 decades of deprogramming :(

-QG

East Germany doesn't even compare. NK is such a disaster that it will likely take generations to rectify a lot of the problems.