Explain to me how Martz in an upgrade for K.Jones (1 Viewer)

[Deuce'sWild]

How can everyone be so high on S. Jackson because Martz left town, and also be high on K. Jones for the Lions acquiring Martz. Seems like a contradiction to me.

Owners seem excited because S. Jackson will get more opportunities now that Martz is gone. But won't that negatively affect K. Jones, if he runs the offense similar to how he did in STL?

 

[LHUCKS]

How can everyone be so high on S. Jackson because Martz left town, and also be high on K. Jones for the Lions acquiring Martz. Seems like a contradiction to me.

Owners seem excited because S. Jackson will get more opportunities now that Martz is gone. But won't that negatively affect K. Jones, if he runs the offense similar to how he did in STL?

Anything is an upgrade from last year's cluster#### in Detroit.

 

[cstu]

Stephen Jackson's upgrade is due more to no longer having Faulk take away carries and more importantly receptions. I think the Rams will also pass a little less with Martz gone, even though they will still be one of the top passing teams.

With KJ, there's nowhere to go but up and it's unlikely that Martz could use him worse than Mooch did.

 

[Big Score]

How can everyone be so high on S. Jackson because Martz left town, and also be high on K. Jones for the Lions acquiring Martz. Seems like a contradiction to me.

Owners seem excited because S. Jackson will get more opportunities now that Martz is gone. But won't that negatively affect K. Jones, if he runs the offense similar to how he did in STL?

Borrowed this from my post in the Julius Jones ~ vs ~ Kevin Jones thread;

The following is pulled from a chat transcript of Lions Beat Writer Tom Kowalski, after their first TC practice.

Venkmen: Martz was criticized in St. Louis for not running the ball enough. Will this be a problem here too?

TomKowalski: THE LIONS ARE GOING TO RUN THE BALL -- THAT'S GOING TO BE A MARINELLI ORDER ...

cruzer: Tom, how did Jones look running the ball

TomKowalski: KJ LOOKS VERY, VERY IMPRESSIVE ... RUNNING AND RECEIVNG ...

Here's the link to the entire transcript. Good reading in it on other Lion notables.

 

[Bob_Magaw]

KJ more likely to have opportunity to rack up yards & TDs if they don't go three & out as often... that said, ian allen of fantasy index is very sceptical martz will help KJ...

 

[The Redbeard]

I think that the earlier posts hit the nail on the head. Over the Martz era, there were plenty of points to be had for the RBs - but many of those points came through Faulk split out. Now, people (I included as SJax was on my team last year) felt that in many cases, given that he was not Marshall, Martz would have been wise to utilize the fact that he had a 235 pound brusier in his baskfield and use a bit of ball control. All that being said, SJax still put up good numbers last year and was the #11 RB by FBGuys scoring with 196 points. We all just wanted more. Which is what we hope to get now that Air Martz and the greatest show on turf have left town.

Which brings us to Kevin Jones. Honestly, we could probably just leave it at what LHucks had to say as it was pretty comprehensive. But to analyse just a bit - Martz is one of the finest offensive minds in the game. While this may mean a bigger bump to passing stats (especially if you feel that Kitna is a significant upgrade over Harrington) it will should facilitate an overall increase in offensive production. (Unless of course Roy and the WR2 turn into Fitz/Boldin - in which case the Lion to draft would be Jason Hanson.) All that being said, you won't see me scrambling to take Kevin Jones as Calhoun may have just enough Faulk in him to steal a goo deal of carries or wrest the job away - but if he maintains the starting gig and slides into the mid-3rd, I would have to give him a good look.

 

[Kleck]

... and also be high on K. Jones for the Lions acquiring Martz....

Kevin Jones is ranked much lower this season on virtually every set of rankings I've seen this year. He was much higher a year ago. What is causing you to have this perception?

 

[Deuce'sWild]

... and also be high on K. Jones for the Lions acquiring Martz....

Kevin Jones is ranked much lower this season on virtually every set of rankings I've seen this year. He was much higher a year ago. What is causing you to have this perception?

My perception is coming from the MB talk of Martz and how he will help KJ become a stud this year. Good point about last year's ranking though. He was ranked pretty high on everyones board and disappointed many.

 

[Gandalf]

... and also be high on K. Jones for the Lions acquiring Martz....

Kevin Jones is ranked much lower this season on virtually every set of rankings I've seen this year. He was much higher a year ago. What is causing you to have this perception?

I think that KJ was ranked even lower before Martz arrived, so his stock is back on the upswing. I'm guessing that's what Deuce's Wild was thinking.I can't speak for others, but as a Steven Jackson owner, I'm happy Martz is out of St. Louis. Mainly because SJax's carries should increase, and I'm hoping that he sees more red zone work. Faulk retiring is a distant second to my optimism for SJax this year.

KJ could have success in the Martz offense and the optimism probably stems at how bad things were in Detroit last year. Even if Martz calls a TE reverse on the 2-yard line instead of a run play, overall the Detroit offense should be way more successful this year and that bodes well for everyone. Even KJ. Unless he is beaten out by Calhoun...

 

[Mr. Mojo]

One note on S. Jackson that hasn't been mentioned. The Rams go against one of the toughest run defense schedules this year (based upon 2005).

 

[fruity pebbles]

... and also be high on K. Jones for the Lions acquiring Martz....

Kevin Jones is ranked much lower this season on virtually every set of rankings I've seen this year. He was much higher a year ago. What is causing you to have this perception?

He's still ranked pretty high for a guy who had 700 yards and 5 TDs last year.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

How can everyone be so high on S. Jackson because Martz left town, and also be high on K. Jones for the Lions acquiring Martz.  Seems like a contradiction to me. 

Owners seem excited because S. Jackson will get more opportunities now that Martz is gone.  But won't that negatively affect K. Jones, if he runs the offense similar to how he did in STL?

Borrowed this from my post in the Julius Jones ~ vs ~ Kevin Jones thread;

The following is pulled from a chat transcript of Lions Beat Writer Tom Kowalski, after their first TC practice.

Venkmen: Martz was criticized in St. Louis for not running the ball enough. Will this be a problem here too?

TomKowalski: THE LIONS ARE GOING TO RUN THE BALL -- THAT'S GOING TO BE A MARINELLI ORDER ...

cruzer: Tom, how did Jones look running the ball

TomKowalski: KJ LOOKS VERY, VERY IMPRESSIVE ... RUNNING AND RECEIVNG ...

Here's the link to the entire transcript. Good reading in it on other Lion notables.

I think Lions Beat Writer should be put in bold (If I knew how......). What did you expect him to say anyway? Its a new regime and everything is rosy right now. I assume they are smart enough not to spell out how they are going to run the offense though. They picked up 2 new QBs, spent upteen #1s on receivers and brought in Mike Martz as a Offensive Coordinator. Hmm. Think they want to pass maybe?Having said that, anything has to be an improvement for KJ from last year - he was constantly looking at 8 men in the box and in-game substitutions. Now at least he can become more of a 3 down threat and likely will see better run calls. Sometimes less is more.

Regarding Steven Jackson, besides Marshall being gone (essentially locking him in 3 downs/GL), this offense will be vastly different then what has been run there in the past. This should be a run first offense from what I've read. In fact there is a video on NFL.com with Issac Bruce describing the differences between the offenses right now. IMO this offense should bring 3 or 4 more rush atts per game for SJ. Bulger will still have the ball, so anything is possible, but I expect they will try to protect the QB more in the passing game so you may see him used more as an outlet receiver as well.

Having said all that, IMHO Steven Jackson makes me nervous because he runs a little upright and sometimes presents his chest to the defender (instead of his shoulder pads). More attempts may not be a great thing for him unless he can put the pads down or make more people miss. He got nicked up quickly last year when he started handling the ball more. I wouldn't say I'm overly concerned because I like the offensive fit for him, but sometimes more isnt always a good thing. Everyone in the division did get better on paper....

 

[Big Score]

How can everyone be so high on S. Jackson because Martz left town, and also be high on K. Jones for the Lions acquiring Martz.  Seems like a contradiction to me. 

Owners seem excited because S. Jackson will get more opportunities now that Martz is gone.  But won't that negatively affect K. Jones, if he runs the offense similar to how he did in STL?

Borrowed this from my post in the Julius Jones ~ vs ~ Kevin Jones thread;

The following is pulled from a chat transcript of Lions Beat Writer Tom Kowalski, after their first TC practice.

Venkmen: Martz was criticized in St. Louis for not running the ball enough. Will this be a problem here too?

TomKowalski: THE LIONS ARE GOING TO RUN THE BALL -- THAT'S GOING TO BE A MARINELLI ORDER ...

cruzer: Tom, how did Jones look running the ball

TomKowalski: KJ LOOKS VERY, VERY IMPRESSIVE ... RUNNING AND RECEIVNG ...

Here's the link to the entire transcript. Good reading in it on other Lion notables.

I think Lions Beat Writer should be put in bold (If I knew how......).

Lions Beat Writer responses to questions were in BOLD & CAPS. I figured that was more important than Bolding his name.

 

[Kleck]

THE LIONS ARE GOING TO RUN THE BALL -- THAT'S GOING TO BE A MARINELLI ORDER ...

Don't be surprised when people blow of quotes like this. I'm pretty sure all 32 teams say they are going to run the ball more and do so effectively. Just once I would like to hear the reverse.

THE <insert mascot here> ARE GOING TO PASS THE BALL -- THAT'S GOING TO BE A <insert head coach name here> ORDER ...

Probably not in this lifetime.

 

[Big Score]

THE LIONS ARE GOING TO RUN THE BALL -- THAT'S GOING TO BE A MARINELLI ORDER ...

Don't be surprised when people blow of quotes like this. I'm pretty sure all 32 teams say they are going to run the ball more and do so effectively. Just once I would like to hear the reverse.

THE <insert mascot here> ARE GOING TO PASS THE BALL -- THAT'S GOING TO BE A <insert head coach name here> ORDER ...

Probably not in this lifetime.

Actually, I think we did hear quotes similar to that, coming out of St Louis the past few years.

 

[lions327]

How can everyone be so high on S. Jackson because Martz left town, and also be high on K. Jones for the Lions acquiring Martz.  Seems like a contradiction to me. 

Owners seem excited because S. Jackson will get more opportunities now that Martz is gone.  But won't that negatively affect K. Jones, if he runs the offense similar to how he did in STL?

Anything is an upgrade from last year's cluster#### in Detroit.

 

[agent 86]

I don't think there's a single player this year (at least at the RB position) where I anticipate a bigger range of projections than KJ.

I'm not sure I recall exactly, but the Rams of 1998 were very similar to the Lions of 2005 in offense. Just a complete mess. In 1999 (granted they had Faulk, but also an unproven QB, an injury-prone WR in Bruce, and an unproven WR corps) they almost doubled the # of TD's scored. The Lions have a veteran QB, a solid corps of WR's and a RB that s/b entering his prime with a big chip on his shoulder.

I find it hard to believe that they won't score 35 TD's with Martz and playing v. the NFC North and West. They could even scoree 40+. The thing I just can't get past is how poorly Jackson was used last year and how quick Martz is to abandon the run. However, coaches can learn from the past. I'd like a little more feedback from Lion homers, but I don't see how a healthy Jones can't live up to his 2005 projections to finish in the top 10-15 RB's.

 

[Bob_Magaw]

as it was said above, everybody INTENDS to run more... in actuality & for practical purposes, when you are down 28-0 in the first half, that tends to curtail the ability to run...

if martz boosts the passing game as expected (kitna upgrade over harrington, roy williams fulfills his potential), than they should be in more games later, & at least IN A POSITION to run if they choose to... which is good place to be if you are a KJ owner...

lets not forget that their defense could be better, too... with ex-bucs coach marinelli... if that scenario plays out, the lions could get the ball back more often & with shorter fields, in better position to score...

 

[faulkfan]

Stephen Jackson's upgrade is due more to no longer having Faulk take away carries and more importantly receptions. I think the Rams will also pass a little less with Martz gone, even though they will still be one of the top passing teams.

With KJ, there's nowhere to go but up and it's unlikely that Martz could use him worse than Mooch did.

This may be the truth in fact, but all the hype centers on Martz being out of the picture as the reason for Jackson's major upgrade.The difference that I see was alredy mentioned and that is that Martz may be the OC, but he ain't the HC and taht is where the power lies.

I personally upgrade KJ for the fact that the recent change has made him realize that he has some shortcomings that need addressed and he has started working on these issues (most notably receiving). Having a fire lit under a guy who already has talent means a lot, and it seems this has happened to Jones.

I also think Linehan is a genius and will make the Rams a more balanced offense. This doesn't mean that Martz didn't do a good job, but by the end you didn't even know that they had a RB in StL.

 

[Lightning Fast Whip]

This is NOT in responce specifically to anything said here...but rather to an accumulation of bash Martz for St Louis last year.

MARTZ WAS SICK..he wasn't in charge most of the year...and when he tried to help when feeling a bit better they kicked him out of the facilities. Sjax year was without Martz majority of the time. I have little doubt St Louis would have been more effective is Martz hadn't become sick.

 

[Gandalf]

This is NOT in responce specifically to anything said here...but rather to an accumulation of bash Martz for St Louis last year.

MARTZ WAS SICK..he wasn't in charge most of the year...and when he tried to help when feeling a bit better they kicked him out of the facilities. Sjax year was without Martz majority of the time. I have little doubt St Louis would have been more effective is Martz hadn't become sick.

That's true too. Good point.

 

[SSOG]

THE LIONS ARE GOING TO RUN THE BALL -- THAT'S GOING TO BE A MARINELLI ORDER ...

Don't be surprised when people blow of quotes like this. I'm pretty sure all 32 teams say they are going to run the ball more and do so effectively. Just once I would like to hear the reverse.

THE <insert mascot here> ARE GOING TO PASS THE BALL -- THAT'S GOING TO BE A <insert head coach name here> ORDER ...

Probably not in this lifetime.

Hasn't Pittsburgh said something to that effect this season?Also, I don't think Denver has ever once said that they're going to run more. I think that they think the run a sufficient amount already.

 

[Righetti]

KJ in 2005

186/664 for 3.6 ypc with 5TD's

20/109 for 5.5 ypr with 0 TD's

SJax in 2005

254/1046 for 4.1ypc with 8TD's

43/325 for 7.4 ypr with 2 TD's

so.. i agree if Martz can get KJ to SJax type numbers it would be a significant upgrade

 

[BlueOnion]

How can everyone be so high on S. Jackson because Martz left town, and also be high on K. Jones for the Lions acquiring Martz. Seems like a contradiction to me.

Owners seem excited because S. Jackson will get more opportunities now that Martz is gone. But won't that negatively affect K. Jones, if he runs the offense similar to how he did in STL?

For Detroit, I believe Kevin Jones playing on an offense that can generate first downs is a plus.