Far-right militias regrouping around anti-vaccine conspiracy theories (1 Viewer)

[The Commish]

Thx, I made the effort to skim and look…but is the % that think covid is a hoax in there?

This is probably the most fair interpretation of "most" hesitancy that I've seen:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/05/the-people-who-wont-get-the-vaccine/618765/

I understand all these positions, but from a math perspective several of them make no sense UNLESS we are talking of the J&J vaccine.  Reality continues to be you are more likely to die or suffer severe medical problems from COVID than you are taking the mRNA vaccines.  And those severe medical problems are typically caused by ingredients needed to make traditional vaccines that don't reside naturally in the body in the concentrations needed to keep the vaccine stable.  There isn't a single ingredient in the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer/Moderna) that isn't found in the body naturally.  

 

[djmich]

This is probably the most fair interpretation of "most" hesitancy that I've seen:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/05/the-people-who-wont-get-the-vaccine/618765/

I understand all these positions, but from a math perspective several of them make no sense UNLESS we are talking of the J&J vaccine.  Reality continues to be you are more likely to die or suffer severe medical problems from COVID than you are taking the mRNA vaccines.  And those severe medical problems are typically caused by ingredients needed to make traditional vaccines that don't reside naturally in the body in the concentrations needed to keep the vaccine stable.  There isn't a single ingredient in the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer/Moderna) that isn't found in the body naturally.  

Yep, thanks for the links.  I think sometimes info gets lost in threading.

I believe a lot of people are unvaxed.

I believe hesitancy is healthy but the data supports the large majority of people getting vaxed (for sure more than currently vaxed).

My entire statistical question was around the assumption that out of the 30% vaxed (not my number, other posters)...that 10% of those thought COVID was a hoax.  So 3% of the nation.  That may very well be true, but that whats I said was a stat "out of the blue" and asked for corroboration.

 

[The General]

Yep, thanks for the links.  I think sometimes info gets lost in threading.

I believe a lot of people are unvaxed.

I believe hesitancy is healthy but the data supports the large majority of people getting vaxed (for sure more than currently vaxed).

My entire statistical question was around the assumption that out of the 30% vaxed (not my number, other posters)...that 10% of those thought COVID was a hoax.  So 3% of the nation.  That may very well be true, but that whats I said was a stat "out of the blue" and asked for corroboration.

30% roughly is the number among adults. This info is out there everywhere and is just a stat. 

The 10% number was spitballing, was an educated guess based on that if you haven’t gotten the vax yet with all the evidence of its benefits, for not only you but all of us that, there’s a chance you hold some extreme beliefs, like a 1 in 10 chance.

Honestly think it is higher but went conservative. Maybe thinking not far as it’s a hoax but hold some very misinformed views. 

Haven’t looked through all @The Commish links so not sure what all that was pointing towards. 

I would say hesitancy is healthy to a point but that point has well passed. 

 

[The Commish]

Yep, thanks for the links.  I think sometimes info gets lost in threading.

I believe a lot of people are unvaxed.

I believe hesitancy is healthy but the data supports the large majority of people getting vaxed (for sure more than currently vaxed).

My entire statistical question was around the assumption that out of the 30% vaxed (not my number, other posters)...that 10% of those thought COVID was a hoax.  So 3% of the nation.  That may very well be true, but that whats I said was a stat "out of the blue" and asked for corroboration.

As one who said there wasn't a chance in hell that I'd get this vaccine when it came out (back last May/June), I appreciate hesitancy as much as anyone.  In my view, between the results and the literature abound, it's not an excuse anymore.  As it pertains to the Pfizer/Moderna shots there is not an honest argument to be made around "what about 30 years from now" stuff...not one.  There is not a single symptom "new" in the lot.  Every symptom people have had has been found in predecessors and the symptoms in these vaccines are fewer in number.  

 

[djmich]

As one who said there wasn't a chance in hell that I'd get this vaccine when it came out (back last May/June), I appreciate hesitancy as much as anyone.  In my view, between the results and the literature abound, it's not an excuse anymore.  As it pertains to the Pfizer/Moderna shots there is not an honest argument to be made around "what about 30 years from now" stuff...not one.  There is not a single symptom "new" in the lot.  Every symptom people have had has been found in predecessors and the symptoms in these vaccines are fewer in number.  

Thanks.  What are your thoughts on kids 12-15 or younger.

Its behind a paywall but apparently UK only administering on a limited bases, to those deemed vulnerable

The Telegraph

 

[The Commish]

Thanks.  What are your thoughts on kids 12-15 or younger.

Its behind a paywall but apparently UK only administering on a limited bases, to those deemed vulnerable

The Telegraph

My 13 year old asked to get it the day it was available and we let him.  My 9 year old wants it and I have a 4 year old as well...he's oblivious and doesn't care one way or the other.  His "school" follows the recommendations from the CDC so he's been in a mask for a year and is really good about it.

 

[Manster]

I got vaxxed at the beginning...1A.....I didn't research, just wanted to get on with life....but I'm curious....

So what about all the people who have had covid that were never tested/counted?  Should they not be basically the same as vaxxed folks in that they have the anti bodies?  

I mean there's got to be a pretty large percentage of folks who've had it by now with little to no symptoms.

 

[Terminalxylem]

I got vaxxed at the beginning...1A.....I didn't research, just wanted to get on with life....but I'm curious....

So what about all the people who have had covid that were never tested/counted?  Should they not be basically the same as vaxxed folks in that they have the anti bodies?  

I mean there's got to be a pretty large percentage of folks who've had it by now with little to no symptoms.

Not the same. The mRNA vaccines target a very specific receptor binding domain on the virus’ spike protein. This creates higher levels of so-called neutralizing antibodies, on average, than those acquired naturally. In general, the more neutralizing antibodies one has, the more durable and potent the immune response is upon re-exposure.

Granted, that is a theoretical benefit at this point, as covid hasn’t been around long enough to know the natural history of infection and immunity/potential for reinfection. But it’s almost certain the vaccines induce a more brisk immune response than that seen in people without symptoms or mild illness, as such individuals tend to generate less antibodies. And some people don’t generate antibodies at all, in part related to the magnitude of their exposure - we have nonspecific, innate immune defenses which can terminate infection before the antibodies are even generated.

tl;dr Even if you had covid, you should still get vaccinated.

 

[The Commish]

9 hours ago, Manster said:
I got vaxxed at the beginning...1A.....I didn't research, just wanted to get on with life....but I'm curious....

So what about all the people who have had covid that were never tested/counted?  Should they not be basically the same as vaxxed folks in that they have the anti bodies?  

I mean there's got to be a pretty large percentage of folks who've had it by now with little to no symptoms.
Expand  

Not the same. The mRNA vaccines target a very specific receptor binding domain on the virus’ spike protein. This creates higher levels of so-called neutralizing antibodies, on average, than those acquired naturally. In general, the more neutralizing antibodies one has, the more durable and potent the immune response is upon re-exposure.

Granted, that is a theoretical benefit at this point, as covid hasn’t been around long enough to know the natural history of infection and immunity/potential for reinfection. But it’s almost certain the vaccines induce a more brisk immune response than that seen in people without symptoms or mild illness, as such individuals tend to generate less antibodies. And some people don’t generate antibodies at all, in part related to the magnitude of their exposure - we have nonspecific, innate immune defenses which can terminate infection before the antibodies are even generated.

tl;dr Even if you had covid, you should still get vaccinated.

To add a layman's explanation to this presented to me for my benefit by some doctors up to their eyeballs in COVID research on the heart.  This is the first time we've ever given the body a direct instruction.  In the past we've basically said, "ok immune system, this is a virus, do what you have to do to fight it off".  Now we are saying "ok, this is a bad protein, when you see it, kill it".  Why is that important?  Because the protein targeted is the one responsible for transmission from one cell to another.  As long as that protein is present in a mutation, it will be attacked.  Whereas, with the traditional "figure it out approach" it's much more likely that the body identify a protein that may not be around one mutation to the next because our bodies don't have the benefit of analysis and research just like the viruses don't.  They do what it takes to eliminate the problem in the hear and now.  There is no strategic planning involved with natural antibodies and that renders our natural produced antibodies far less effective.  Having the benefit of the big picture is huge and what makes this new approach a game changer.

 

[The General]

1 in 5 Americans believe it is likely a microchip is in covid vax

Seems reasonable