Favre To Retire! (1 Viewer)

[scott72]

I suspect that the cap-friendly contract that re-couped 12 million on retirement was something that just added incentive to TT to wish for Favre's retirement. Who are the top UFA defensive players or OL out there?

Where in the world do we need anyone on defense??Safety? No.Corner? No.Linebacker? Hawk & Barnett are great.Line? No.We could use some OL, but our offense was absurdly good last year. We just need to wait for our young guys to improve. I think this was gonna be our year. If Rodgers is good, it still might be.

Favre is definitely giving the whole taking the ball home approach to this, but I can't blame him. I don't think you have to break the bank to improve the team, but to have a HOF QB, with his stature in the community and the league, to play small ball like you're the Brewers is pathetic. The Packers have money and have lost Favre (at least for now) because TT was unwilling to use any of it. They got very lucky with injuries last year and pretty lucky with the way the schedule broke for them and I am sure that Favre had to weigh the chances of winning the Superbowl vs. the chances of losing and possibly ruining his quality of life after football. It shouldn't have ended this way. Way to go Ted!

I didn't realize you talked to Brett about this. Seems to me TT and MM indicated it was never about personnel and it was never brought up by Brett or them so where are you getting this info?

 

[scott72]

"Yup...way to go Ted...you did not mortgage the future for a 38 year old QB cause that is not your job."I thought we agreed the GMs job was to win a Superbowl. You mean spending the money you have under the cap wisely is mortaging? N'way.TT NEVER, EVER, EVER, gave Favre the respect he deserved based on his stature in the leauge or community.

What are you talking about? TT praised Brett every chance he got. What was he supposed to do, erect a statue himself? Please stop making crap up. The Vikings and Redskins have shown over and over and over that blowing your wad on overpriced FA's in NOT the way to build depth and stay competitive for several years. How can you argue with what Thompson has done since he came here?

 

[scott72]

I suspect Packer fans are the only ones to be impressed by anything after Jennings and Driver.

I thought you were a Packer fan? Quit your lying and leave already. Closet Bear fan?

 

[scott72]

Just wanted to tip my hat to the Ironman and one of my absolute favorite athletes to ever watch in any sport. Hard to believe he is really done this time but he went out with about as good a season as he could ever hope for. What an amazing season to go out with. Kudos Brett. Sorry Packer fans. It was really weird watching football when Aikman retired and I often felt a little empty but still had Emmitt to cheer for. It was definitely hard when Emmitt called it quits, but I can tell you from experience, you will find someone else that defines your love for all things Green Bay. Hope to see Brett stop by at a few Monday night halftimes and stuff like that. I'm sure he will.

Lots of classy posts by other fans in here and it's nice to see. Unfortunately there will always be haters and a few of them are rearing their ugly heads in this thread.

 

[Phase of the Game]

Just wanted to tip my hat to the Ironman and one of my absolute favorite athletes to ever watch in any sport. Hard to believe he is really done this time but he went out with about as good a season as he could ever hope for. What an amazing season to go out with. Kudos Brett. Sorry Packer fans. It was really weird watching football when Aikman retired and I often felt a little empty but still had Emmitt to cheer for. It was definitely hard when Emmitt called it quits, but I can tell you from experience, you will find someone else that defines your love for all things Green Bay. Hope to see Brett stop by at a few Monday night halftimes and stuff like that. I'm sure he will.

Lots of classy posts by other fans in here and it's nice to see. Unfortunately there will always be haters and a few of them are rearing their ugly heads in this thread.

What's new. The haters have personal issues.

 

[Pipes]

I suspect that the cap-friendly contract that re-couped 12 million on retirement was something that just added incentive to TT to wish for Favre's retirement.

Who are the top UFA defensive players or OL out there?

Where in the world do we need anyone on defense??Safety? No.

Corner? No.

Linebacker? Hawk & Barnett are great.

Line? No.

We could use some OL, but our offense was absurdly good last year. We just need to wait for our young guys to improve. I think this was gonna be our year. If Rodgers is good, it still might be.

Saftey - As a group I would say they are decent...at best. Collins needs to make a jump just to get back to where he started. Will Bigby follow down the same path?Corner - YES Between Woodson and Harris there are some major age issues. Getting the next starting CB(s) for the team is probably priority one.

Linbacker - Barnett can get out of positions at times, but is a great player. Hawk hasn't shown me great. It's either an indictment as him as a player or the coaching staff that a #5 pick isn't at a level that you would say is consistent. Personally I think that with Jenkins, Pickett, and Kampman that by adding another OLB and being able to add the flexibility of playing some pressure 3-4 that they could take advantage of their LB speed.

Line? Losing Corey Williams forces JH into the spotlight. I'm sure this is one of those moves that Favre looked at and said wtf. A 2nd round pick may be better for the long haul, but this team was almost in the Superbowl.

The questions that need to be asked are why didn't they try to bring in Wahle and Crumpler. These guys signed for relative peanuts and could have helped the team at very reasonable prices. With Crumpler and Lee working in tandem it could have been the new Jackson and Chewy. Getting Wahle at guard could have improved the o-line and given them some nice depth. I don't think TT would have considered bringing in Moss because that would have been an admission of failure from last year.

Favre is definitely giving the whole taking the ball home approach to this, but I can't blame him. I don't think you have to break the bank to improve the team, but to have a HOF QB, with his stature in the community and the league, to play small ball like you're the Brewers is pathetic. The Packers have money and have lost Favre (at least for now) because TT was unwilling to use any of it. They got very lucky with injuries last year and pretty lucky with the way the schedule broke for them and I am sure that Favre had to weigh the chances of winning the Superbowl vs. the chances of losing and possibly ruining his quality of life after football. It shouldn't have ended this way. Way to go Ted!

This is one of the dumbest posts this board has ever seen. Free agency started less than 1 week ago and even if Thompson doesn't make any moves GB would've been one of the favorites out of the NFC. This retirement is about Brett being burnt out.

 

[LAUNCH]

This retirement is about Brett being burnt out.

If Randy Moss would have signed with the Packers do you think Brett would have retired?We're also told that Mort speculated on-air that Favre's decision was a reaction to the team's failure to sign receiver Randy Moss.

Though

he retired, he still believes there is a year or two of football left in him. Had the Packers somehow been able to land Randy Moss in free agency, Favre probably would be back for at least one more season. If asked, he might have committed for two or three years knowing Moss would be on the roster with him.

 

[Challenge Everything]

Thank you #4. The realization is setting in and does not feel good right now. I was at the last regular season home game this past year and I was at the, unfortunate, playoff game against New York. I need to make something up to frame those and maybe, somehow, get Favre's autograph to put into the frame. It would be cool to have a signed ticket stub as well of the last game.

My fan moments for the Packers started with Majik and carried over to Favre. It will be odd seeing someone else under center game after game without the #4. Thanks Brett.

 

[Popinski]

Great player. Great passion. Not many other players I'd rather pay to watch than Favre in his prime.

 

[redman]

This retirement is about Brett being burnt out.

If Randy Moss would have signed with the Packers do you think Brett would have retired?We're also told that Mort speculated on-air that Favre's decision was a reaction to the team's failure to sign receiver Randy Moss.

Though

he retired, he still believes there is a year or two of football left in him. Had the Packers somehow been able to land Randy Moss in free agency, Favre probably would be back for at least one more season. If asked, he might have committed for two or three years knowing Moss would be on the roster with him.

From PFT's Rumormill:

POSTED 11:52 a.m. EST, March 4, 2008

FAVRE SITUATION SUDDENLY GETS WEIRD

As it turns out, that dark cloud in Wisconsin could quickly become a storm.

Brett Favre's agent, Bus Cook, has told the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel that Favre wanted to play another year, but that he felt like the Packers didn't want him.

Uh-oh.

"I know he wants to play one more year," Cook said. "I do not know much conversation there was and I don't think anyone forced him to make that decision. But I don't know that anyone tried to talk him out of it."

Uh-oh.

"I think he wanted to play," Cook said. " I think he's still got it. He knows he's still got it. I think he felt he could play one more year. I don't know if they told him they really wanted him to play. That's just the feeling I got."

Uh-oh.

Asked whether Favre could be talked into returning, Cook said, "I don't know."

Well, maybe the media speculation that the guy who brought Favre to Green Bay, former G.M. Ron Wolf, might be whispering to Bill Parcells about trying to get Favre to Miami is more accurate than we initially thought. Because if Favre wants to play another year and if it's not with the Packers, then maybe it will be elsewhere.

But if Favre doesn't play for the Packers in 2008, either because he's playing for someone else or not playing at all, we think that there could be an enormous backlash against the team. Specifically, G.M. Ted Thompson could find himself in the crosshairs of the fans' criticism.

Never mind the fact that Thompson has done an excellent job; the perception that he ran off Brett Favre could be the quickest ticket out of town for Thompson.

If, in the end, Thompson gets saddled with the brunt of the blame for Favre's departure, the pressure on Thompson to leave, too, will be tremendous. And, as a practical matter, it will put him on an incredibly short leash if the team falters in 2008.

 

[sho nuff]

This retirement is about Brett being burnt out.

If Randy Moss would have signed with the Packers do you think Brett would have retired?We're also told that Mort speculated on-air that Favre's decision was a reaction to the team's failure to sign receiver Randy Moss.

Though

he retired, he still believes there is a year or two of football left in him. Had the Packers somehow been able to land Randy Moss in free agency, Favre probably would be back for at least one more season. If asked, he might have committed for two or three years knowing Moss would be on the roster with him.

Might he have stayed if Randy came? Yes.Did him not coming lead to him leaving? I absolutely think it had nothing to do with it and have to trust Brett and McCarthy's own words on that.

 

[sho nuff]

This retirement is about Brett being burnt out.

If Randy Moss would have signed with the Packers do you think Brett would have retired?We're also told that Mort speculated on-air that Favre's decision was a reaction to the team's failure to sign receiver Randy Moss.

Though

he retired, he still believes there is a year or two of football left in him. Had the Packers somehow been able to land Randy Moss in free agency, Favre probably would be back for at least one more season. If asked, he might have committed for two or three years knowing Moss would be on the roster with him.

From PFT's Rumormill:

POSTED 11:52 a.m. EST, March 4, 2008

FAVRE SITUATION SUDDENLY GETS WEIRD

As it turns out, that dark cloud in Wisconsin could quickly become a storm.

Brett Favre's agent, Bus Cook, has told the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel that Favre wanted to play another year, but that he felt like the Packers didn't want him.

Uh-oh.

"I know he wants to play one more year," Cook said. "I do not know much conversation there was and I don't think anyone forced him to make that decision. But I don't know that anyone tried to talk him out of it."

Uh-oh.

"I think he wanted to play," Cook said. " I think he's still got it. He knows he's still got it. I think he felt he could play one more year. I don't know if they told him they really wanted him to play. That's just the feeling I got."

Uh-oh.

Asked whether Favre could be talked into returning, Cook said, "I don't know."

Well, maybe the media speculation that the guy who brought Favre to Green Bay, former G.M. Ron Wolf, might be whispering to Bill Parcells about trying to get Favre to Miami is more accurate than we initially thought. Because if Favre wants to play another year and if it's not with the Packers, then maybe it will be elsewhere.

But if Favre doesn't play for the Packers in 2008, either because he's playing for someone else or not playing at all, we think that there could be an enormous backlash against the team. Specifically, G.M. Ted Thompson could find himself in the crosshairs of the fans' criticism.

Never mind the fact that Thompson has done an excellent job; the perception that he ran off Brett Favre could be the quickest ticket out of town for Thompson.

If, in the end, Thompson gets saddled with the brunt of the blame for Favre's departure, the pressure on Thompson to leave, too, will be tremendous. And, as a practical matter, it will put him on an incredibly short leash if the team falters in 2008.

Read the ESPN article...read where it says "IN MY OPINION" from Bus.Then listen to Favre's message to mort and McCarthy when they say it had nothing to do with Moss.

 

[tdoss]

What's the deal with most of the reporters saying, "Favre never had anyone around him"?

And even say that he had less than Marino had...how is that possible? Maybe my memory is foggy but didn't the guy have 1,000+ yard rushers multiple times...all pro tight ends and receivers...and top defenses many of the years he played?

 

[fatness]

I wonder if he'll start getting the itch to come back again in training camp? Preseason? First game of the year? The last 4 critical games of the season which determine if the Packers make the playoffs or not? Lots of players get that itch.

 

[fsufan]

ESPN acts like Favre died. The NFL will go on

 

[sho nuff]

What's the deal with most of the reporters saying, "Favre never had anyone around him"?And even say that he had less than Marino had...how is that possible? Maybe my memory is foggy but didn't the guy have 1,000+ yard rushers multiple times...all pro tight ends and receivers...and top defenses many of the years he played?

I would not say he never had anyone around him.but its not like they had great talent.Green was probably the best RB they had.But come on. Edgar Bennet and Dorsey Levens were not exactly HOF material. WRs...yes, some made the pro-bowl...some because of Favre. Guys like Billy Schroeder, Charles Jordan...and so on had good years with Favre.He had Sharpe for a few years earlier...Freeman was decent but I would hardly call him true all-pro talent. And lately Driver. These are good WRs...but other than Sharpe...none really have the talent to make the Hall.TE. Chmura. yes...he had Keith Jackson in one of Keith's last years. Then Bubba. No...no real all-pros there.Top defenses? For the SB yes...after that? Not really.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

From PFT's Rumormill:

But if Favre doesn't play for the Packers in 2008, either because he's playing for someone else or not playing at all, we think that there could be an enormous backlash against the team. Specifically, G.M. Ted Thompson could find himself in the crosshairs of the fans' criticism.

Never mind the fact that Thompson has done an excellent job; the perception that he ran off Brett Favre could be the quickest ticket out of town for Thompson.

If, in the end, Thompson gets saddled with the brunt of the blame for Favre's departure, the pressure on Thompson to leave, too, will be tremendous. And, as a practical matter, it will put him on an incredibly short leash if the team falters in 2008.

This is really some absurd stuff from PFT. Most fans - of any team - and all the Packer fans I know, are primarily interested in seeing the team win games. Packer fans have been preparing for Favre's retirement for some time now and I think are for the most part ready to move forward with a quality young core on offense and defense, a great coach and GM, a new QB, an extra 2nd round draft pick and a ton of cap $$ to spend. There is absolutely no way that fan pressure, if any were to arise over this phantom perception, could impact TT's job security whatsoever.

 

[ookook]

I suspect Packer fans are the only ones to be impressed by anything after Jennings and Driver.

I thought you were a Packer fan? Quit your lying and leave already. Closet Bear fan?

Hey now, that is just not right.I strongly suspect my credentials as a Packers fan, for better or worse, were established on this board before you even knew it existed. I just think TT has been giving lip service to Favre but his actions have always belied otherwise. My opinion. I also am a realist. I think the Packers will be lucky to have an offense in the top 16 this year without Favre. Think to yourself: "What would they have done last year with Rex Grossman at QB?" and that is what I expect.Call my many things, my friend, such as someone who gives way to much credit to Favre for the success last year, but please do not call me a Bears fan.Just not right.

 

[ookook]

I think TT has been successful in avoiding the wrath of the fans by saying nice things about Favre to the media at appropriate times.

I also think that his job security is immune to the wrath of the fans.

It is pretty hard to argue TT has not done a good job.

My contention is that I think he could have used $ to improve the team to try to get to the Superbowl this coming year. From the drafting of Rogers (whose pick couldhave been used on someone who started the past 3 years) until the present, I do not think he tried to capitalize on Favre's talent.

And I do think it has to do in part with ego and in part with philosophy of building a winning team. One thing is for sure, the Packers surely lacked depth after Sherman's drafts.

 

[sho nuff]

I suspect Packer fans are the only ones to be impressed by anything after Jennings and Driver.

I thought you were a Packer fan? Quit your lying and leave already. Closet Bear fan? :(

Hey now, that is just not right.I strongly suspect my credentials as a Packers fan, for better or worse, were established on this board before you even knew it existed. I just think TT has been giving lip service to Favre but his actions have always belied otherwise. My opinion. I also am a realist. I think the Packers will be lucky to have an offense in the top 16 this year without Favre. Think to yourself: "What would they have done last year with Rex Grossman at QB?" and that is what I expect.Call my many things, my friend, such as someone who gives way to much credit to Favre for the success last year, but please do not call me a Bears fan.Just not right.

His actions that were a big part of why GB was 13-3 last year with an improving young defense and the #3 offense in the league?I think the Packers will easily have an offense in the top 16 next year if Rodgers can stay healthy.

 

[sho nuff]

I think TT has been successful in avoiding the wrath of the fans by saying nice things about Favre to the media at appropriate times. I also think that his job security is immune to the wrath of the fans.It is pretty hard to argue TT has not done a good job.My contention is that I think he could have used $ to improve the team to try to get to the Superbowl this coming year. From the drafting of Rogers (whose pick couldhave been used on someone who started the past 3 years) until the present, I do not think he tried to capitalize on Favre's talent. And I do think it has to do in part with ego and in part with philosophy of building a winning team. One thing is for sure, the Packers surely lacked depth after Sherman's drafts.

I love people killing him for the Rodgers pick.Go back to that draft...and look at the team's needs and who people thought they would/should take. Guys like Matt Roth (yup...WHO?) Very few of those drafted right around them went on to contribute much in the past 3 seasons.People whined for years that the Packers needed to prepare for life after Favre. When they did...people bashed TT for it.Now...with Favre retiring...they have a QB ready to step in who has been learning for 3 years...how is that a bad thing? Why would anyone rather have had them wait to have his replacement ready?And yes...they lacked depth...and that is part of why I support Thompson. Sherman left the cabinet bare and killed the cap trying to "win today". Brought in such greats as Hardy Nickerson and Joe Johnson. Tell me again how those guys worked out? Sherman gave the big contract to KGB...to Bubba...and so on.Ted frontloaded contracts for most of his guys which is what put GB in this position of having the cap space...and drafted well and restocked the team with some depth too. Not to mention having some very good talent ready to go...and a QB ready to step in rather than scrambling now to find Favre's replacement.Part of it might be ego...but IMO...a well earned ego as so far he has shown me he knows what he is doing.

 

[ookook]

Now we perhaps have a way to settle something.

How about a signature bet on the Packers offense being better or worse than 16th with a push if they are exactly?

 

[ookook]

I am also willing to wager on better than - worse than 8-8.

 

[sho nuff]

meh.

I guess we could...not sure I have ever done a sig bet or even care about having a sig on here anyway.

 

[Aaronstory]

I think TT has been successful in avoiding the wrath of the fans by saying nice things about Favre to the media at appropriate times. I also think that his job security is immune to the wrath of the fans.It is pretty hard to argue TT has not done a good job.My contention is that I think he could have used $ to improve the team to try to get to the Superbowl this coming year. From the drafting of Rogers (whose pick couldhave been used on someone who started the past 3 years) until the present, I do not think he tried to capitalize on Favre's talent. And I do think it has to do in part with ego and in part with philosophy of building a winning team. One thing is for sure, the Packers surely lacked depth after Sherman's drafts.

I love people killing him for the Rodgers pick.Go back to that draft...and look at the team's needs and who people thought they would/should take. Guys like Matt Roth (yup...WHO?) Very few of those drafted right around them went on to contribute much in the past 3 seasons.People whined for years that the Packers needed to prepare for life after Favre. When they did...people bashed TT for it.Now...with Favre retiring...they have a QB ready to step in who has been learning for 3 years...how is that a bad thing? Why would anyone rather have had them wait to have his replacement ready?And yes...they lacked depth...and that is part of why I support Thompson. Sherman left the cabinet bare and killed the cap trying to "win today". Brought in such greats as Hardy Nickerson and Joe Johnson. Tell me again how those guys worked out? Sherman gave the big contract to KGB...to Bubba...and so on.Ted frontloaded contracts for most of his guys which is what put GB in this position of having the cap space...and drafted well and restocked the team with some depth too. Not to mention having some very good talent ready to go...and a QB ready to step in rather than scrambling now to find Favre's replacement.Part of it might be ego...but IMO...a well earned ego as so far he has shown me he knows what he is doing.

One quibble - Thompson gave Bubba the big contract, not Sherman. But I agree with you overall on Thompson...

 

[Ghost Rider]

What's the deal with most of the reporters saying, "Favre never had anyone around him"?And even say that he had less than Marino had...how is that possible? Maybe my memory is foggy but didn't the guy have 1,000+ yard rushers multiple times...all pro tight ends and receivers...and top defenses many of the years he played?

I would not say he never had anyone around him.but its not like they had great talent.Green was probably the best RB they had.But come on. Edgar Bennet and Dorsey Levens were not exactly HOF material. WRs...yes, some made the pro-bowl...some because of Favre. Guys like Billy Schroeder, Charles Jordan...and so on had good years with Favre.He had Sharpe for a few years earlier...Freeman was decent but I would hardly call him true all-pro talent. And lately Driver. These are good WRs...but other than Sharpe...none really have the talent to make the Hall.TE. Chmura. yes...he had Keith Jackson in one of Keith's last years. Then Bubba. No...no real all-pros there.Top defenses? For the SB yes...after that? Not really.

Okay, while the Packers didn't have a lot of players around Favre who made or will make the Hall of Fame, they had MANY, MANY very good players who were great for stretches of their careers. One could argue that playing with Favre elevated the play of many of those players, but I think it is not accurate to simply say, "Favre never had anyone around him."

 

[sho nuff]

I think TT has been successful in avoiding the wrath of the fans by saying nice things about Favre to the media at appropriate times. I also think that his job security is immune to the wrath of the fans.It is pretty hard to argue TT has not done a good job.My contention is that I think he could have used $ to improve the team to try to get to the Superbowl this coming year. From the drafting of Rogers (whose pick couldhave been used on someone who started the past 3 years) until the present, I do not think he tried to capitalize on Favre's talent. And I do think it has to do in part with ego and in part with philosophy of building a winning team. One thing is for sure, the Packers surely lacked depth after Sherman's drafts.

I love people killing him for the Rodgers pick.Go back to that draft...and look at the team's needs and who people thought they would/should take. Guys like Matt Roth (yup...WHO?) Very few of those drafted right around them went on to contribute much in the past 3 seasons.People whined for years that the Packers needed to prepare for life after Favre. When they did...people bashed TT for it.Now...with Favre retiring...they have a QB ready to step in who has been learning for 3 years...how is that a bad thing? Why would anyone rather have had them wait to have his replacement ready?And yes...they lacked depth...and that is part of why I support Thompson. Sherman left the cabinet bare and killed the cap trying to "win today". Brought in such greats as Hardy Nickerson and Joe Johnson. Tell me again how those guys worked out? Sherman gave the big contract to KGB...to Bubba...and so on.Ted frontloaded contracts for most of his guys which is what put GB in this position of having the cap space...and drafted well and restocked the team with some depth too. Not to mention having some very good talent ready to go...and a QB ready to step in rather than scrambling now to find Favre's replacement.Part of it might be ego...but IMO...a well earned ego as so far he has shown me he knows what he is doing.

One quibble - Thompson gave Bubba the big contract, not Sherman. But I agree with you overall on Thompson...

Ooops...thats right.Well...he also finally showed Bubba the door.

 

[sho nuff]

What's the deal with most of the reporters saying, "Favre never had anyone around him"?And even say that he had less than Marino had...how is that possible? Maybe my memory is foggy but didn't the guy have 1,000+ yard rushers multiple times...all pro tight ends and receivers...and top defenses many of the years he played?

I would not say he never had anyone around him.but its not like they had great talent.Green was probably the best RB they had.But come on. Edgar Bennet and Dorsey Levens were not exactly HOF material. WRs...yes, some made the pro-bowl...some because of Favre. Guys like Billy Schroeder, Charles Jordan...and so on had good years with Favre.He had Sharpe for a few years earlier...Freeman was decent but I would hardly call him true all-pro talent. And lately Driver. These are good WRs...but other than Sharpe...none really have the talent to make the Hall.TE. Chmura. yes...he had Keith Jackson in one of Keith's last years. Then Bubba. No...no real all-pros there.Top defenses? For the SB yes...after that? Not really.

Okay, while the Packers didn't have a lot of players around Favre who made or will make the Hall of Fame, they had MANY, MANY very good players who were great for stretches of their careers. One could argue that playing with Favre elevated the play of many of those players, but I think it is not accurate to simply say, "Favre never had anyone around him."

I would not say he never had anyone.but he did much of his work without a stellar cast.Ron Wolf retired saying he wish he would have given Favre more in those years to win a few more.

 

[fsufan]

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/p...1/80304215/1978

As No. 4 goes, twins Brett, Favre arrive

By Patti Zarling

pzarling@greenbaypressgazette.com

It may be the end of the Brett Favre era in Titletown, but for Brett and Favre Kinsaul of Palatka, Fla., life has just begun.

The twins’ parents, David and Emily Kinsaul, agreed when they married that they would name any sons after the legendary Packers’ quarterback. But they didn’t know they’d have twin boys the first time around. Or that Favre would retire days after their birth.

“I was hoping we’d have at least one year of him still playing,” David said. The twins were born Feb. 22. The Packers confirmed Favre’s retirement Tuesday.

“The last couple years it’s come up year after year, but this year everyone seemed to think he’d come back.”

Not that his retirement would have changed the Kinsauls’ plans to name any boys after his hero.

“Oh no, they’d still be named after him,” he said.

David Kinsaul is a relatively new member of the Favre fan club.

He grew up in Florida and moved to Madison in about 2000. He lived in Wisconsin for about three and a half years, and during that time didn’t consider himself much of a Packers fan. But when he moved to Houston, and then back to Florida in 2005, he discovered he had some green and gold in his blood after all.

“I missed it terribly,” he said. “There’s a whole culture up there, watching the games and being interested in the Packers. I just really missed it.

“And I loved watching Brett play. You could just really tell he loved the game, and he was fun to watch.”

Kinsaul and his wife subscribed to satellite TV so they could watch Packers games, and he started reading about the history of the Packers and Lambeau Field. When he and his wife discussed marriage, they agreed on the names Brett and Favre for boys. His wife isn’t a super fan, but adopted the Packers because of him, David Kinsaul said.

So when they found out they were expecting twins, the names were set. Brett Aaron was born at 7:55 a.m.; Favre Moses made his entrance at 7:56 a.m.

The names weren’t revealed to friends and family until the boys were born, David Kinsaul said.

“They were a little surprised,” he said. “They really liked the name Brett. They weren’t so sure about Favre.

“They didn’t have a problem with Favre personally, they just weren’t sure about that for a name. But now it’s grown on him.”

Kinsaul made sure Favre’s name is correctly spelled on the birth certificate and insurance papers. He hopes someday his sons might be football players like Favre.

Kinsaul never made it to Lambeau Field during his time in Wisconsin, but intends to bring the boys for a visit to the Packers’ holy ground when they’re older. And he plans to tell them plenty about their namesake.

“Brett is just so excellent at what he does, and yet he’s extremely human,” David Kinsaul said. “He’s had so many things he’s gone through personally and he’s still gone so far.”

 

[Ghost Rider]

What's the deal with most of the reporters saying, "Favre never had anyone around him"?And even say that he had less than Marino had...how is that possible? Maybe my memory is foggy but didn't the guy have 1,000+ yard rushers multiple times...all pro tight ends and receivers...and top defenses many of the years he played?

I would not say he never had anyone around him.but its not like they had great talent.Green was probably the best RB they had.But come on. Edgar Bennet and Dorsey Levens were not exactly HOF material. WRs...yes, some made the pro-bowl...some because of Favre. Guys like Billy Schroeder, Charles Jordan...and so on had good years with Favre.He had Sharpe for a few years earlier...Freeman was decent but I would hardly call him true all-pro talent. And lately Driver. These are good WRs...but other than Sharpe...none really have the talent to make the Hall.TE. Chmura. yes...he had Keith Jackson in one of Keith's last years. Then Bubba. No...no real all-pros there.Top defenses? For the SB yes...after that? Not really.

Okay, while the Packers didn't have a lot of players around Favre who made or will make the Hall of Fame, they had MANY, MANY very good players who were great for stretches of their careers. One could argue that playing with Favre elevated the play of many of those players, but I think it is not accurate to simply say, "Favre never had anyone around him."

I would not say he never had anyone.but he did much of his work without a stellar cast.Ron Wolf retired saying he wish he would have given Favre more in those years to win a few more.

Wolf gave Favre plenty. Wolf left GB in '01, and prior to that, they always had a solid (at worst) running game, really good defenses, and plenty of weapons in the passing game for Favre. People forget what a stud Robert Brooks was before getting hurt, Sterling Sharpe was awesome, and Antonio Freeman was a top WR before getting his big pay day and then falling off the face of the earth. And he had stud TEs, too.

 

[sho nuff]

What's the deal with most of the reporters saying, "Favre never had anyone around him"?And even say that he had less than Marino had...how is that possible? Maybe my memory is foggy but didn't the guy have 1,000+ yard rushers multiple times...all pro tight ends and receivers...and top defenses many of the years he played?

I would not say he never had anyone around him.but its not like they had great talent.Green was probably the best RB they had.But come on. Edgar Bennet and Dorsey Levens were not exactly HOF material. WRs...yes, some made the pro-bowl...some because of Favre. Guys like Billy Schroeder, Charles Jordan...and so on had good years with Favre.He had Sharpe for a few years earlier...Freeman was decent but I would hardly call him true all-pro talent. And lately Driver. These are good WRs...but other than Sharpe...none really have the talent to make the Hall.TE. Chmura. yes...he had Keith Jackson in one of Keith's last years. Then Bubba. No...no real all-pros there.Top defenses? For the SB yes...after that? Not really.

Okay, while the Packers didn't have a lot of players around Favre who made or will make the Hall of Fame, they had MANY, MANY very good players who were great for stretches of their careers. One could argue that playing with Favre elevated the play of many of those players, but I think it is not accurate to simply say, "Favre never had anyone around him."

I would not say he never had anyone.but he did much of his work without a stellar cast.Ron Wolf retired saying he wish he would have given Favre more in those years to win a few more.

Wolf gave Favre plenty. Wolf left GB in '01, and prior to that, they always had a solid (at worst) running game, really good defenses, and plenty of weapons in the passing game for Favre. People forget what a stud Robert Brooks was before getting hurt, Sterling Sharpe was awesome, and Antonio Freeman was a top WR before getting his big pay day and then falling off the face of the earth. And he had stud TEs, too.

Brooks was ok...but no stud by the freakish standards of today. Sharpe was his only true stud (and a small glimpse of one with Walker).Freeman was good I think, like Driver, because he was Favre's guy. Ran great routes...had great hands...and Favre trusted him. He knew he could hit him as hard as he could and they would catch it. He knew where they would be on the field. He knew that if his pass was off, they would knock it down if need be (unlike guys like Robert Ferguson).Stud TEs? He had Keith Jackson for what? One year...part of 2?Chmura was good. Where are the big studs though?Never a Winslow, Witten, Gonzalez, Gates type stud.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Brooks was ok...but no stud by the freakish standards of today. Sharpe was his only true stud (and a small glimpse of one with Walker).Freeman was good I think, like Driver, because he was Favre's guy. Ran great routes...had great hands...and Favre trusted him. He knew he could hit him as hard as he could and they would catch it. He knew where they would be on the field. He knew that if his pass was off, they would knock it down if need be (unlike guys like Robert Ferguson).Stud TEs? He had Keith Jackson for what? One year...part of 2?Chmura was good. Where are the big studs though?Never a Winslow, Witten, Gonzalez, Gates type stud.

Freeman was a total stud in '97 and '98, the two seasons AFTER their SB win, putting up 81/1243/12 and 84/1424/14 (lead the league in receiving yards in '98 and finished 2nd in TD receptions both years). Brooks had a huge bust-out year in '95, putting up 102/1497/13 and was on his way to stardom before tearing his knee up the following season, an injury from which he never really recovered. Chmura never put up big numbers, but he was like Jay Novacek, in that he was always a stud on 3rd downs, and Novacek never put up that good a numbers either.

 

[sho nuff]

Brooks was ok...but no stud by the freakish standards of today. Sharpe was his only true stud (and a small glimpse of one with Walker).Freeman was good I think, like Driver, because he was Favre's guy. Ran great routes...had great hands...and Favre trusted him. He knew he could hit him as hard as he could and they would catch it. He knew where they would be on the field. He knew that if his pass was off, they would knock it down if need be (unlike guys like Robert Ferguson).Stud TEs? He had Keith Jackson for what? One year...part of 2?Chmura was good. Where are the big studs though?Never a Winslow, Witten, Gonzalez, Gates type stud.

Freeman was a total stud in '97 and '98, the two seasons AFTER their SB win, putting up 81/1243/12 and 84/1424/14 (lead the league in receiving yards in '98 and finished 2nd in TD receptions both years). Brooks had a huge bust-out year in '95, putting up 102/1497/13 and was on his way to stardom before tearing his knee up the following season, an injury from which he never really recovered. Chmura never put up big numbers, but he was like Jay Novacek, in that he was always a stud on 3rd downs, and Novacek never put up that good a numbers either.

His numbers were great...but from a talent and physique standpoint...he was no stud.Like I said...I compare him to a Driver or even Hines Ward kind of guy.Not necessarily studs on talent...but studs that they bust their ### work hard...run great routes and have great relationships with the QB in so much as the QB trusts him in everything. I think that goes a long way.

 

[sho nuff]

Good article on ESPN

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?i...mp;lid=tab2pos1

I'll miss the picks. I'll miss them even more than the touchdowns, though he holds the all-time records for both. For it was in failure that we saw how much Favre wanted to win. He wanted to win so badly he was willing to lose. Not just lose. He was willing to be the goat for a shot at being the hero. So many quarterbacks are poor timid souls who've known neither victory nor defeat. Game managers. Not our man. He knew defeat 288 times. There is something poetic about his last pass as a professional ending up in an interception.

I'll miss believing anything is possible. That's why watching a football game he played in was fun. You just never knew what he might do, either brilliant or idiotic, and you got the sense he didn't really know either. A lot of people, me included, will tell you pro football is boring. It's predictable and balanced and risk-averse. But there was always one guy who played the pro game like he was still in Hattiesburg at Southern Mississippi. We will all miss that.

 

[tdoss]

What's the deal with most of the reporters saying, "Favre never had anyone around him"?And even say that he had less than Marino had...how is that possible? Maybe my memory is foggy but didn't the guy have 1,000+ yard rushers multiple times...all pro tight ends and receivers...and top defenses many of the years he played?

I would not say he never had anyone around him.but its not like they had great talent.Green was probably the best RB they had.But come on. Edgar Bennet and Dorsey Levens were not exactly HOF material. WRs...yes, some made the pro-bowl...some because of Favre. Guys like Billy Schroeder, Charles Jordan...and so on had good years with Favre.He had Sharpe for a few years earlier...Freeman was decent but I would hardly call him true all-pro talent. And lately Driver. These are good WRs...but other than Sharpe...none really have the talent to make the Hall.TE. Chmura. yes...he had Keith Jackson in one of Keith's last years. Then Bubba. No...no real all-pros there.Top defenses? For the SB yes...after that? Not really.

I'm just saying...Mike and Mike made a direct comparison to Marino and acted like Favre was scraping the bottom of the barrell compared to Marino. Forget the names...just look at the numbers. Who had better runningbacks? Who had better defenses? And an ensemble of receivers and tight ends?Sure...I'll give you that Favre didn't have what SYoung/JMontana/PManning and now what TBrady has...but he definitely had Joe Bryant boatloads more than Marino.

 

[Tough As Nails]

What's the deal with most of the reporters saying, "Favre never had anyone around him"?And even say that he had less than Marino had...how is that possible? Maybe my memory is foggy but didn't the guy have 1,000+ yard rushers multiple times...all pro tight ends and receivers...and top defenses many of the years he played?

I would not say he never had anyone around him.but its not like they had great talent.Green was probably the best RB they had.But come on. Edgar Bennet and Dorsey Levens were not exactly HOF material. WRs...yes, some made the pro-bowl...some because of Favre. Guys like Billy Schroeder, Charles Jordan...and so on had good years with Favre.He had Sharpe for a few years earlier...Freeman was decent but I would hardly call him true all-pro talent. And lately Driver. These are good WRs...but other than Sharpe...none really have the talent to make the Hall.TE. Chmura. yes...he had Keith Jackson in one of Keith's last years. Then Bubba. No...no real all-pros there.Top defenses? For the SB yes...after that? Not really.

I'm just saying...Mike and Mike made a direct comparison to Marino and acted like Favre was scraping the bottom of the barrell compared to Marino. Forget the names...just look at the numbers. Who had better runningbacks? Who had better defenses? And an ensemble of receivers and tight ends?Sure...I'll give you that Favre didn't have what SYoung/JMontana/PManning and now what TBrady has...but he definitely had Joe Bryant boatloads more than Marino.

I think they are usually talking about offense. The Packers Defense was #1 in the league and had, arguably, the greatest defensive player ever for a good stretch. People forget about how the D and Special Teams were totally dominant in that run in the mid-90's. #1 D (both scoring and yardage) and #1 Special Teams when they won it all. Not a coincidence. The talent on offense (other than Favre) was just above middle of the pack. Though Ahman Green was an absolute beast for a few years. Actually...more than a few years. He went 1700+, 1900+, 1600+, 2200+, 1400+ for total yards. That's a 5-year stretch with a dominant running back. Those that say "Elway needed TDavis or he never would have won" should remember that Favre (and many, many others) had a RB like Davis at some point and couldn't get it done. But that's only 5 years out of 16. Pretty small number. The offensive talent was spread thin throughout his career. When he had the RBs...he didn't have the D or the coaching. When he had the WRs, he didn't have the RBs. Etc, etc. Some great players...but only during the Super Bowl runs were those great players together on the same team.

 

[Eric Stratton]

I'd suggest anyone that wants to make this out to be more than it is to listen to Jay Glazer's interview last night on Fox Sports radio(he broke the story and worked on it for the last few days). I also wish other members of the media would listed to Glazer.

Here are the key points.

1. The Moss issue is a non-story. Favre never mentioned this as an issue for this year.

2. The Packers told Favre they wanted him back BUT they didn't want to put pressure on him or force him into a decision. They sensed just like many others that Favre was burnt out.

3. Favre worked harder in 2007 than he ever had and it took its toll on him and that was apparent as soon as the season ended.

4. Bus Cook was acting like an agent when he stated the Packers didn't do much to get Favre to return. Cook doesn't have many clients and Favre is his biggest. Of course he would say that.

5. This is a simple story....Favre is mentally exhausted and ready to hang it up.

 

[tdoss]

What's the deal with most of the reporters saying, "Favre never had anyone around him"?And even say that he had less than Marino had...how is that possible? Maybe my memory is foggy but didn't the guy have 1,000+ yard rushers multiple times...all pro tight ends and receivers...and top defenses many of the years he played?

I would not say he never had anyone around him.but its not like they had great talent.Green was probably the best RB they had.But come on. Edgar Bennet and Dorsey Levens were not exactly HOF material. WRs...yes, some made the pro-bowl...some because of Favre. Guys like Billy Schroeder, Charles Jordan...and so on had good years with Favre.He had Sharpe for a few years earlier...Freeman was decent but I would hardly call him true all-pro talent. And lately Driver. These are good WRs...but other than Sharpe...none really have the talent to make the Hall.TE. Chmura. yes...he had Keith Jackson in one of Keith's last years. Then Bubba. No...no real all-pros there.Top defenses? For the SB yes...after that? Not really.

I'm just saying...Mike and Mike made a direct comparison to Marino and acted like Favre was scraping the bottom of the barrell compared to Marino. Forget the names...just look at the numbers. Who had better runningbacks? Who had better defenses? And an ensemble of receivers and tight ends?Sure...I'll give you that Favre didn't have what SYoung/JMontana/PManning and now what TBrady has...but he definitely had Joe Bryant boatloads more than Marino.

I think they are usually talking about offense. The Packers Defense was #1 in the league and had, arguably, the greatest defensive player ever for a good stretch. People forget about how the D and Special Teams were totally dominant in that run in the mid-90's. #1 D (both scoring and yardage) and #1 Special Teams when they won it all. Not a coincidence. The talent on offense (other than Favre) was just above middle of the pack. Though Ahman Green was an absolute beast for a few years. Actually...more than a few years. He went 1700+, 1900+, 1600+, 2200+, 1400+ for total yards. That's a 5-year stretch with a dominant running back. Those that say "Elway needed TDavis or he never would have won" should remember that Favre (and many, many others) had a RB like Davis at some point and couldn't get it done. But that's only 5 years out of 16. Pretty small number. The offensive talent was spread thin throughout his career. When he had the RBs...he didn't have the D or the coaching. When he had the WRs, he didn't have the RBs. Etc, etc. Some great players...but only during the Super Bowl runs were those great players together on the same team.

And I agree with all of that...although I think there were some other nice running seasons in there by backs other than AGreen...but my point was, How can anyone say BFavre had less to work with than DMarino?

 

[tdoss]

Actually...I'm looking at it right now and I can't believe it. I knew it...but still can't believe it.

Marino had a grand total of ONE (1) Thousand Yard Rusher during his entire career in Miami (KAJabbar = 1116 in '96)

Favre had NINE (9) Thousand Yard Rushers (AGreen = 6, DLevens = 2, EBennet = 1)

The rushing help alone should kill any debate in this matter. Nevermind the ridiculous defenses he had, special teams (DHoward = Super Bowl MVP), receivers and tight ends.

I just cannot fathom how anyone could even try to make this point...yet I've heard it chimed numerous times on talk radio, ESPN and other sources.

 

[scott72]

Actually...I'm looking at it right now and I can't believe it. I knew it...but still can't believe it.Marino had a grand total of ONE (1) Thousand Yard Rusher during his entire career in Miami (KAJabbar = 1116 in '96)Favre had NINE (9) Thousand Yard Rushers (AGreen = 6, DLevens = 2, EBennet = 1)The rushing help alone should kill any debate in this matter. Nevermind the ridiculous defenses he had, special teams (DHoward = Super Bowl MVP), receivers and tight ends.I just cannot fathom how anyone could even try to make this point...yet I've heard it chimed numerous times on talk radio, ESPN and other sources.

I agree with you 100%. Brett's teams were definitely better than Marino's. That said it's still very difficult to compare to two and say whose better. Different opponents, different times. It just can't be done. Let the talking heads on TV battle it out. Both had fantastic careers and it's too bad Marino couldn't of finished with one Championship.

 

[larry_boy_44]

What's the deal with most of the reporters saying, "Favre never had anyone around him"?And even say that he had less than Marino had...how is that possible? Maybe my memory is foggy but didn't the guy have 1,000+ yard rushers multiple times...all pro tight ends and receivers...and top defenses many of the years he played?

You think Dorsey Levens and Edgar Bennett are great RBs???Antonio Freeman and Robert Brooks great WRs??Favre has had maybe one Hall of Fame player on offense with him (Kieth Jackson for like half a season). Otherwise, no one. NONE! NOT ONE HALL OF FAME OFFENSIVE PLAYER!Sharpe probably would have been.that is why Favre never had anyone.

 

[larry_boy_44]

What's the deal with most of the reporters saying, "Favre never had anyone around him"?

And even say that he had less than Marino had...how is that possible? Maybe my memory is foggy but didn't the guy have 1,000+ yard rushers multiple times...all pro tight ends and receivers...and top defenses many of the years he played?

I would not say he never had anyone around him.but its not like they had great talent.

Green was probably the best RB they had.

But come on. Edgar Bennet and Dorsey Levens were not exactly HOF material.

WRs...yes, some made the pro-bowl...some because of Favre. Guys like Billy Schroeder, Charles Jordan...and so on had good years with Favre.

He had Sharpe for a few years earlier...Freeman was decent but I would hardly call him true all-pro talent. And lately Driver. These are good WRs...but other than Sharpe...none really have the talent to make the Hall.

TE. Chmura. yes...he had Keith Jackson in one of Keith's last years. Then Bubba. No...no real all-pros there.

Top defenses? For the SB yes...after that? Not really.

Okay, while the Packers didn't have a lot of players around Favre who made or will make the Hall of Fame, they had MANY, MANY very good players who were great for stretches of their careers. One could argue that playing with Favre elevated the play of many of those players, but I think it is not accurate to simply say, "Favre never had anyone around him."

I would not say he never had anyone.but he did much of his work without a stellar cast.

Ron Wolf retired saying he wish he would have given Favre more in those years to win a few more.

Wolf gave Favre plenty. Wolf left GB in '01, and prior to that, they always had a solid (at worst) running game, really good defenses, and plenty of weapons in the passing game for Favre. People forget what a stud Robert Brooks was before getting hurt, Sterling Sharpe was awesome, and Antonio Freeman was a top WR before getting his big pay day and then falling off the face of the earth. And he had stud TEs, too.

you need to share those kind of drugs. Seriously

 

[larry_boy_44]

What's the deal with most of the reporters saying, "Favre never had anyone around him"?And even say that he had less than Marino had...how is that possible? Maybe my memory is foggy but didn't the guy have 1,000+ yard rushers multiple times...all pro tight ends and receivers...and top defenses many of the years he played?

I would not say he never had anyone around him.but its not like they had great talent.Green was probably the best RB they had.But come on. Edgar Bennet and Dorsey Levens were not exactly HOF material. WRs...yes, some made the pro-bowl...some because of Favre. Guys like Billy Schroeder, Charles Jordan...and so on had good years with Favre.He had Sharpe for a few years earlier...Freeman was decent but I would hardly call him true all-pro talent. And lately Driver. These are good WRs...but other than Sharpe...none really have the talent to make the Hall.TE. Chmura. yes...he had Keith Jackson in one of Keith's last years. Then Bubba. No...no real all-pros there.Top defenses? For the SB yes...after that? Not really.

I'm just saying...Mike and Mike made a direct comparison to Marino and acted like Favre was scraping the bottom of the barrell compared to Marino. Forget the names...just look at the numbers. Who had better runningbacks? Who had better defenses? And an ensemble of receivers and tight ends?Sure...I'll give you that Favre didn't have what SYoung/JMontana/PManning and now what TBrady has...but he definitely had Joe Bryant boatloads more than Marino.

maybe not at the end, but Marino sucked then, too... But in the 80s, Marino had a better team around him that Favre...

 

[Ghost Rider]

What's the deal with most of the reporters saying, "Favre never had anyone around him"?And even say that he had less than Marino had...how is that possible? Maybe my memory is foggy but didn't the guy have 1,000+ yard rushers multiple times...all pro tight ends and receivers...and top defenses many of the years he played?

You think Dorsey Levens and Edgar Bennett are great RBs???Antonio Freeman and Robert Brooks great WRs??Favre has had maybe one Hall of Fame player on offense with him (Kieth Jackson for like half a season). Otherwise, no one. NONE! NOT ONE HALL OF FAME OFFENSIVE PLAYER!Sharpe probably would have been.that is why Favre never had anyone.

So, if you aren't a HoFer, you aren't anything? That is what you are implying. Can I use that argument for John Elway, too, saying that he is the best ever because, in 16 seasons, he only had one HoFer at the skill positions (Shannon Sharpe)? I guess he never had anyone either, besides Sharpe, right? Terrell Davis...he was nothing, right?

 

[sho nuff]

I'd suggest anyone that wants to make this out to be more than it is to listen to Jay Glazer's interview last night on Fox Sports radio(he broke the story and worked on it for the last few days). I also wish other members of the media would listed to Glazer.

Here are the key points.

1. The Moss issue is a non-story. Favre never mentioned this as an issue for this year.

2. The Packers told Favre they wanted him back BUT they didn't want to put pressure on him or force him into a decision. They sensed just like many others that Favre was burnt out.

3. Favre worked harder in 2007 than he ever had and it took its toll on him and that was apparent as soon as the season ended.

4. Bus Cook was acting like an agent when he stated the Packers didn't do much to get Favre to return. Cook doesn't have many clients and Favre is his biggest. Of course he would say that.

5. This is a simple story....Favre is mentally exhausted and ready to hang it up.

Here is a video piece by Glazer...http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-us&...l/story/7870944

if that works...

 

[Moe Green]

Calling it now -- he'll be back next season, and probably in a Green Bay jersey.

 

[tdoss]

What's the deal with most of the reporters saying, "Favre never had anyone around him"?And even say that he had less than Marino had...how is that possible? Maybe my memory is foggy but didn't the guy have 1,000+ yard rushers multiple times...all pro tight ends and receivers...and top defenses many of the years he played?

You think Dorsey Levens and Edgar Bennett are great RBs???Antonio Freeman and Robert Brooks great WRs??Favre has had maybe one Hall of Fame player on offense with him (Kieth Jackson for like half a season). Otherwise, no one. NONE! NOT ONE HALL OF FAME OFFENSIVE PLAYER!Sharpe probably would have been.that is why Favre never had anyone.

Slow down and actually read the words that I put together...I agree that Favre did not have the talent a number of top alltime QB's had...however...when comparing him directly to Marino...THERE IS NO WAY whatsoever that BFavre can be said to have had less.

 

[tdoss]

What's the deal with most of the reporters saying, "Favre never had anyone around him"?And even say that he had less than Marino had...how is that possible? Maybe my memory is foggy but didn't the guy have 1,000+ yard rushers multiple times...all pro tight ends and receivers...and top defenses many of the years he played?

I would not say he never had anyone around him.but its not like they had great talent.Green was probably the best RB they had.But come on. Edgar Bennet and Dorsey Levens were not exactly HOF material. WRs...yes, some made the pro-bowl...some because of Favre. Guys like Billy Schroeder, Charles Jordan...and so on had good years with Favre.He had Sharpe for a few years earlier...Freeman was decent but I would hardly call him true all-pro talent. And lately Driver. These are good WRs...but other than Sharpe...none really have the talent to make the Hall.TE. Chmura. yes...he had Keith Jackson in one of Keith's last years. Then Bubba. No...no real all-pros there.Top defenses? For the SB yes...after that? Not really.

I'm just saying...Mike and Mike made a direct comparison to Marino and acted like Favre was scraping the bottom of the barrell compared to Marino. Forget the names...just look at the numbers. Who had better runningbacks? Who had better defenses? And an ensemble of receivers and tight ends?Sure...I'll give you that Favre didn't have what SYoung/JMontana/PManning and now what TBrady has...but he definitely had Joe Bryant boatloads more than Marino.

maybe not at the end, but Marino sucked then, too... But in the 80s, Marino had a better team around him that Favre...

Well...that ends this debate...you sir, have no idea of what you speak.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

What's the deal with most of the reporters saying, "Favre never had anyone around him"?And even say that he had less than Marino had...how is that possible? Maybe my memory is foggy but didn't the guy have 1,000+ yard rushers multiple times...all pro tight ends and receivers...and top defenses many of the years he played?

I would not say he never had anyone around him.but its not like they had great talent.Green was probably the best RB they had.But come on. Edgar Bennet and Dorsey Levens were not exactly HOF material. WRs...yes, some made the pro-bowl...some because of Favre. Guys like Billy Schroeder, Charles Jordan...and so on had good years with Favre.He had Sharpe for a few years earlier...Freeman was decent but I would hardly call him true all-pro talent. And lately Driver. These are good WRs...but other than Sharpe...none really have the talent to make the Hall.TE. Chmura. yes...he had Keith Jackson in one of Keith's last years. Then Bubba. No...no real all-pros there.Top defenses? For the SB yes...after that? Not really.

I'm just saying...Mike and Mike made a direct comparison to Marino and acted like Favre was scraping the bottom of the barrell compared to Marino. Forget the names...just look at the numbers. Who had better runningbacks? Who had better defenses? And an ensemble of receivers and tight ends?Sure...I'll give you that Favre didn't have what SYoung/JMontana/PManning and now what TBrady has...but he definitely had Joe Bryant boatloads more than Marino.

maybe not at the end, but Marino sucked then, too... But in the 80s, Marino had a better team around him that Favre...

LB44, you need to stop. You're making yourself look ridiculous.