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FBGs vs Kasparov- chess game- Draw agreed to (2 Viewers)

When I was a teen, my friend got the commodore 64. They had a chess game where the pieces would beat each other up. Way better than this nonsense.

 
Love the examples Sac Bob. Missed the debate but glad we played c5.

Great thread already. So much to learn. I've never studied openings or theory or any of that - so this is a great introduction to the why behind things.

Looking forward seeing this all the way through.

 
Have always wanted to learn to play chess better, but I am terrible at it. So far this thread is written in a foreign language, but I plan on following and perhaps pick up a few tips.

 
Kaspy moves: Bd3. As predicted by Joffer.

So what are our options? Castling seems like it makes sense. But also b6 and Bb7 puts pressure back on the e4 square which is our main focus, right? d5 does that as well but I'm guessing that's awfully sharp. There's also Nc6.

Lots of stuff to look at here. What do the experts say?

 
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According to the video that McGarnicle posted earlier, if we play d5 right now and he castles and we castle it transposes back to the main line. d5 defends the e4 square.

 
timschochet said:
Kaspy moves: Bd3. As predicted by Joffer.

So what are our options? Castling seems like it makes sense. But also b6 and Bb7 puts pressure back on the e4 square which is our main focus, right? d5 does that as well but I'm guessing that's awfully sharp. There's also Nc6.

Lots of stuff to look at here. What do the experts say?
Click to expand...
Obviously not an expert but...huge fan of b6 next. Obviously we need to castle, but looking at our immediate situation, I don't see it as being reckless not castling right now. He's not in a position to suddenly attack our kingside, and we're in position to continue the initiative we've started. My vote is b6, b7, then most likely o-o from there. For the hell of it, we may have a board that looks something like this in a few moves:http://i.imgur.com/FowslVb.jpg

Unless you guys can envision something crazier/more aggressive from him. I'm guessing he's probably going to play conservatively to start. My :2cents:

 
AAABatteries said:
Is it "cheating" to go through games about this opening and then discussing it hear?
Click to expand...
I personally think it is unless this is intended to be some open exposition here.

Maybe cheating is a strong word, but if I'm playing over the board and my opponents is going through games that have reached our current position on the spot, I'm probably not too pleased.

That said, this is for fun and I don't want to ruin the fun, but with 12 or so people jumping in vs 1, we shouldn't need to do this.

 
timschochet said:
AAABatteries said:
Is it "cheating" to go through games about this opening and then discussing it hear?
Click to expand...
I don't think so. We're all sharing knowledge anyhow.
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Ok, I don't have a ton to add from what I watched other than to say that e6 and 0-0 are basically the next two moves (in some order). After that it seems like b7 or c5. White moves king sided knight and castles.

 
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I really don't think it makes any difference. The opening is only going to last a few more moves anyhow. We'll be out of book soon enough.

 
AAABatteries said:
timschochet said:
AAABatteries said:
Is it "cheating" to go through games about this opening and then discussing it hear?
Click to expand...
I don't think so. We're all sharing knowledge anyhow.
Click to expand...
Ok, I don't have a ton to add from what I watched other than to say that e6 and 0-0 are basically the next two moves (in some order
Click to expand...
why e6? And why not d5 or b6? And if we don't play d5 right away, aren't we giving him e4 which gives him command of the center (which I thought was the whole thing we were trying to prevent)?

 
timschochet said:
I really don't think it makes any difference. The opening is only going to last a few more moves anyhow. We'll be out of book soon enough.
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I understand where you're coming from. That was just my opinion. I wouldn't call it cheating in this format. Just close to the line.

 
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timschochet said:
AAABatteries said:
timschochet said:
AAABatteries said:
Is it "cheating" to go through games about this opening and then discussing it hear?
Click to expand...
I don't think so. We're all sharing knowledge anyhow.
Click to expand...
Ok, I don't have a ton to add from what I watched other than to say that e6 and 0-0 are basically the next two moves (in some order
Click to expand...
why e6? And why not d5 or b6? And if we don't play d5 right away, aren't we giving him e4 which gives him command of the center (which I thought was the whole thing we were trying to prevent)?
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Sorry - typo, was supposed to be b6.

 
SacramentoBob said:
Sort of the (old) main line from this position.

Bronstein - Euwe, 1953

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1033861

The drawback of this line IMO, is when Black plays d5, he allows White to undouble his c pawns and get the bishop pair for free. The main plus is Black achieves his e5 break which frees his position.

With that in mind, look at the Huebner variation (the 4... c5 idea):

http://chess-db.com/public/game.jsp?id=1130420.316385.169914368.28312

Black clogs up the position, reducing the effectiveness of the bishop pair.

And more of a modern way of playing the Huebner for White to avoid blocking the position up:

Onischuk - Karpov, 1996

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1069316

White takes on the long term weakness of the isolated queen pawn in return for the dynamic potential it creates.

That's a summary of how he'd likely meet either c5 or O-O. There's also the immediate 5. Ne2 (Reshevsky variation) which would lead to even quieter play. We can cross the bridge if we come to it.

Admittedly, there can be some very sharp play in some of the 4... b6 Fischer Variations, but they can be relatively quiet as well.

Michalik - Navara, 2013

http://www.365chess.com/view_game.php?g=3849153

Black doesn't give up the bishop pair and opens the center with his more active pieces when White went for play on the queenside.

.
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OK guys, check out the first 2 games that Sac Bob posted here. In the first game, considered "traditional", d5 is played in order to keep the pressure on the e4 square and not allow him to push his e3 pawn there.

In the second game Nc6 is the move, this seems to be known as the "Huebner Variation"- instead of defending e4 just yet we're attacking the d4 pawn with our knight and our c5 pawn.

 
Personally between the two, according to Bob's analysis, I prefer the traditional d5 idea, even if it means giving up our bishop pair, because I understand the concept of freeing black's position better than I understand what Nf6 would entail. But that's just me.

 
John Bender said:
AAABatteries said:
Is it "cheating" to go through games about this opening and then discussing it hear?
Click to expand...
I personally think it is unless this is intended to be some open exposition here.

Maybe cheating is a strong word, but if I'm playing over the board and my opponents is going through games that have reached our current position on the spot, I'm probably not too pleased.

That said, this is for fun and I don't want to ruin the fun, but with 12 or so people jumping in vs 1, we shouldn't need to do this.
Click to expand...
My assumption was this a bunch of ants vs. the magnifying glass, so anything would be allowed. :shrug:
 
McGarnicle said:
John Bender said:
AAABatteries said:
Is it "cheating" to go through games about this opening and then discussing it hear?
Click to expand...
I personally think it is unless this is intended to be some open exposition here. Maybe cheating is a strong word, but if I'm playing over the board and my opponents is going through games that have reached our current position on the spot, I'm probably not too pleased.

That said, this is for fun and I don't want to ruin the fun, but with 12 or so people jumping in vs 1, we shouldn't need to do this.
Click to expand...
My assumption was this a bunch of ants vs. the magnifying glass, so anything would be allowed. :shrug:
Click to expand...
lol
 
You guys need to look at those first 2 games Bob posted, decide which idea you want to pursue (or another idea if you have one) and help me out here. If we don't stick to an overall idea when we decide each move, if we simply react with whatever seems like the best move at the time without some sort of long range plan, we're going to get slaughtered.

 
timschochet said:
McGarnicle said:
John Bender said:
AAABatteries said:
Is it "cheating" to go through games about this opening and then discussing it hear?
Click to expand...
I personally think it is unless this is intended to be some open exposition here. Maybe cheating is a strong word, but if I'm playing over the board and my opponents is going through games that have reached our current position on the spot, I'm probably not too pleased.

That said, this is for fun and I don't want to ruin the fun, but with 12 or so people jumping in vs 1, we shouldn't need to do this.
Click to expand...
My assumption was this a bunch of ants vs. the magnifying glass, so anything would be allowed. :shrug:
Click to expand...
lol
Click to expand...
No seriously though, a player that good vs. a mass of players not as good, collaborating, with videos etc., I honestly don't know where the advantage lies. Are we only as good as our best player?I think this is possibly the coolest thing I've been involved with in a really long time. It's going to be so valuable in the end as an instructional aid (already has been for me). And depending how it ends up, then we can start to define if outside instruction is allowed. Because I'm really hoping Kaspy will agree to do this on an ongoing basis.

 
John Bender said:
AAABatteries said:
Is it "cheating" to go through games about this opening and then discussing it hear?
Click to expand...
I personally think it is unless this is intended to be some open exposition here.

Maybe cheating is a strong word, but if I'm playing over the board and my opponents is going through games that have reached our current position on the spot, I'm probably not too pleased.

That said, this is for fun and I don't want to ruin the fun, but with 12 or so people jumping in vs 1, we shouldn't need to do this.
Click to expand...
I think this thread is about learning chess - not really about winning a game.

Anything that contributes to that I think is on the right track.

 
dancingbones said:
So it looks like it is one of these:

1. d5

2. b6

3. Nc6

4. O-O

Any other contenders?
Click to expand...
Don't think so.

And we need to wait for guys who know this opening, but my initial thought is that if we play either 0-0 or b6, we run the risk that he plays e4 right away. The purpose of either d5 or Nc6, it seems to me, is to prevent that.

Now I know he loses tempo by playing e4, but I would have no idea how to take advantage of that. Especially since e4 not only opens up his position, but it makes b6 seem to make no sense, because at that point our fight for control of the e4 square is over- we lost it. As I understand it, the whole point of this opening is to keep that pawn on e3 and so keep white's development limited.

Now there may be some tactical reason that after 0-0 or b6 he's not going to play e4 anyhow, and maybe someone will explain that to us, but I don't know what it is.

 
Let me revisit something - Now that we've made the c5 move we are committed to taking the knight once a3 is played, right? If so, and we allow Qc2 or Bd2 before a3 then what did the pin end up getting us?

 
derek245583 said:
Actually, no matter what we do, if he goes e4 and we take d4 what is his response? a3?
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Yes, and if we play that out, I think (if I understand) we could end up a pawn but way behind on development and tempo. White would control most of the center and the a and d file - even up that's a scary looking board for black. Granted - I may not know what I'm talking about. :)

ETA - ok, maybe not - I guess I don't see what Tim sees with e4. I'm not sure why white would play e4 until after he's played Kne2. It opens up the queen side bishop?

 
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AAABatteries said:
derek245583 said:
Actually, no matter what we do, if he goes e4 and we take d4 what is his response? a3?
Click to expand...
Yes, and if we play that out, I think (if I understand) we could end up a pawn but way behind on development and tempo. White would control most of the center and the a and d file - even up that's a scary looking board for black. Granted - I may not know what I'm talking about. :)
Click to expand...
And if I learned ANYTHING from that frumpy guy's lecture its "we need to develop"

 
Good morning. No vote here until Sac Bob or somebody else can explain what's going on. We need to know why he suggested Nc6, what the central ideas are, and what other moves would get us.

 
Nc6 is best. Good developing move that threatens d4. Always good to develop a knight and not block advancement of the c pawn. it's the logical continuation after c5

 
joffer said:
Nc6 is best. Good developing move that threatens d4. Always good to develop a knight and not block advancement of the c pawn. it's the logical continuation after c5
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OK that makes sense. 1. What about d5?

2. Is our plan still to fianchetto the bishop on b7?

3. Is controlling the e4 square still the central theme for us?

4. When do we castle?

Thanks.

 
Also- on the video that McGarnixle provided, it was suggested that if the c5 pawn was captured white could respond with Na6 and then N x c5. Obviously if we play Nc6 we're eliminating that route, so I'm assuming that if he captures the c5 pawn now we recapture with the bishop. Is that correct?

 
timschochet said:
joffer said:
Nc6 is best. Good developing move that threatens d4. Always good to develop a knight and not block advancement of the c pawn. it's the logical continuation after c5
Click to expand...
OK that makes sense. 1. What about d5?

2. Is our plan still to fianchetto the bishop on b7?

3. Is controlling the e4 square still the central theme for us?

4. When do we castle?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
1. Boring2. I would say no at this point, but who know

3. It's important, but don't get hung up on it

4. Soon

 
joffer said:
timschochet said:
joffer said:
Nc6 is best. Good developing move that threatens d4. Always good to develop a knight and not block advancement of the c pawn. it's the logical continuation after c5
Click to expand...
OK that makes sense. 1. What about d5?

2. Is our plan still to fianchetto the bishop on b7?

3. Is controlling the e4 square still the central theme for us?

4. When do we castle?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
1. Boring2. I would say no at this point, but who know

3. It's important, but don't get hung up on it

4. Soon
Click to expand...
Regarding #2, where else will the bishop likely be headed?
 
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