What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

FBGs vs Kasparov- chess game- Draw agreed to (1 Viewer)

Nevermind, I can't tell if AA's board is from white or black angle.  I'll load in tim's move and use that.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Count my vote/or not for B-d6.  So many variables at this stage.  Keeping that bishop controlling two lines including the obvious threat to capture his pawn is cool. Also protects our eventual pawn advance.  Don't have a board here to manually move pieces so I'm only thinking 3 or 4 moves ahead.

Nice work though.  Congrats on flustering Kaspy.

 
Hey, JB.  The board I posted is from white's angle, with the first rank of the board at the bottom.  White's king is on e2, for example.   

 
Well let's look at Bxb4:

Bxb4 Ra4 Rb3 This doesn't look too bad. 

If Ra8+,  Kb7

If d6, Kd7 Bc7 f5

If Ra7,  f5 Rf7 Rf3 Be3 Bd6

This all looks good. What else can black do? He can always try a trick move like Bc5- Bxc5 Rxe4. But I think we can protect the other pawn in time. 

So I'm liking Bxb4 IF he plays Ra4. But what other moves does he have? 

 
timschochet said:
First off here's the reason I say we can't win: 

Bxb4 Ra4 Bd6 Rxe4 Rxd5 Bg1

Now all white needs to do is keep his bishop on either g1 or h2 in order to capture the pawn whenever we push it to a black square. If we try to trade bishops he'll simply move it to the other square. He will never trade bishops and will always have it ready to capture our f pawn. He doesn't care about losing the bishop in that situation because it's a draw. 

Thats the way I see it anyhow. I admit I'm no expert at these kind of endgames and perhaps someone who is can correct me. But my assumption is that unless bishops are traded at the same time we cannot afford to lose either of our pawns. 
Click to expand...
That's a good take.  I don't agree with the premise of our total inability to protect the f-pawn but it wouldn't be easy. 

So again, sorry, your preferred move is Bd6?  I like it.  Do it. 

 
Aerial Assault said:
Hey, JB.  The board I posted is from white's angle, with the first rank of the board at the bottom.  White's king is on e2, for example.   
Click to expand...
Yep :bag:

I had the winning line for us :lol:

This looks like a complete draw to me. I wish I had more to add, I don't disagree with any of the moves being bandied about mainly because I think it's a dead draw.

 
Aerial Assault said:
That's a good take.  I don't agree with the premise of our total inability to protect the f-pawn but it wouldn't be easy. 

So again, sorry, your preferred move is Bd6?  I like it.  Do it. 
Click to expand...
Not yet. I want to look at everything. I'm not even sure my theory is correct. We've got time. 

 
John Bender said:
Yep :bag:

I had the winning line for us :lol:

This looks like a complete draw to me. I wish I had more to add, I don't disagree with any of the moves being bandied about mainly because I think it's a dead draw.
Click to expand...
:lmao:   I love it!  I was trying to figure out if you thought that we somehow each got our kings to the opposite sides, or if I managed to post a frigging upside-down diagram somehow. 

 
John Bender said:
Yep :bag:

I had the winning line for us :lol:

This looks like a complete draw to me. I wish I had more to add, I don't disagree with any of the moves being bandied about mainly because I think it's a dead draw.
Click to expand...
Don't be so negative. 

Weve got connected passed pawns. If we can keep those and advance them we can still win this thing. 

 
timschochet said:
Well let's look at Bxb4:

Bxb4 Ra4 Rb3 This doesn't look too bad. 

If Ra8+,  Kb7

If d6, Kd7 Bc7 f5

If Ra7,  f5 Rf7 Rf3 Be3 Bd6

This all looks good. What else can black do? He can always try a trick move like Bc5- Bxc5 Rxe4. But I think we can protect the other pawn in time. 

So I'm liking Bxb4 IF he plays Ra4. But what other moves does he have? 
Click to expand...


Not much since he pretty much has to move the R.  But irish idiot has a nice point a few posts up about the Bd6 move controlling two diagonals and I know you liked that as well.   

 
timschochet said:
Don't be so negative. 

Weve got connected passed pawns. If we can keep those and advance them we can still win this thing. 
Click to expand...
I mean, I'd play Bxb4 as well here but we're hoping he makes a mistake at that point because i think even a lower ranked player could hold a draw here.  And I don't think he's going to make a mistake. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if when we load this up into an engine later if it looks like 2 computers were playing each other. I'm guessing a centipawn loss of 5 or less for both sides.

 
Let's look at Bxb4 Ra8+ :

BxB4 Ra8+ and we can play Kb7 or Kd7:

Kb7 Ra4 Kxb6 Rxb4+ and after Rxe4 this is a draw. We'll never get that f pawn home. Or can we? 

Kd7 looks better. I don't see a good move for white. 

 
John Bender said:
I mean, I'd play Bxb4 as well here but we're hoping he makes a mistake at that point because i think even a lower ranked player could hold a draw here.  And I don't think he's going to make a mistake. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if when we load this up into an engine later if it looks like 2 computers were playing each other. I'm guessing a centipawn loss of 5 or less for both sides.
Click to expand...
Unless tim is secretly an android - and don't forget wilk's cool wife who has helped him play out all those variations - we can rest assured that black has not been a computer. 

:oldunsure:

Both moves under discussion look good, honestly.  I do dig the potential pawn swap later after Bxb4 but I absolutely get the counterargument and that's down the road anyway.    

 
OK I'm beginning now to lean towards Bxb4. I think we can get away with it without giving I the e pawn. we might even capture both of his pawns: 

Bxb4 Ra7 Rxd5 Ke3 f5 Rf7 Bc5+ That's an ideal variation. 

I think we should take the pawn. 

 
timschochet said:
Let's look at Bxb4 Ra8+ :

BxB4 Ra8+ and we can play Kb7 or Kd7:

Kb7 Ra4 Kxb6 Rxb4+ and after Rxe4 this is a draw. We'll never get that f pawn home. Or can we? 

Kd7 looks better. I don't see a good move for white. 
Click to expand...
I'd go Kb7 there. 

If we can get to K/R/P for black versus K/R for him and can't manage to win by getting the f-pawn queened, then that's honestly just a well-played frigging stalemate with which we should be delighted.  And that position is arguably the same as what we have now.  I know, I know, the connected pawns, but we are not going to be able to keep those IMO.  In any case, if you want to try to keep them, the better move is likely Bd6, not Bxb4, to set up the f-pawn's advance.   

 
Aerial Assault said:
I know, I know, the connected pawns, but we are not going to be able to keep those IMO.  In any case, if you want to try to keep them, the better move is likely Bd6, not Bxb4, to set up the f-pawn's advance.   
Click to expand...
Dammit I want his B pawn AND I want to keep our pawns. I want to do both. I say we try. 

 
timschochet said:
Dammit I want his B pawn AND I want to keep our pawns. I want to do both. I say we try. 
Click to expand...
:thumbup:    Bxb4 is my preference for the less than $0.02 I'm bringing.  I want to see what he does in response to that move, and it's a forcing move to which he must directly respond, unlike Bd6 where he can do just about anything in reply.   

 
I wrote: "Damn! Your quickest response ever." 

He replied, "Lol I have this all mapped out; it helps to have a plan!" 

Oh crap...

 
We are just making liquidating moves that will lead to the draw at this point. 

I'd offer a draw.

If you want an actual result, Rb3 here just keeps us moving toward a draw

If you want to be more enterprising and go for a win here...I'd play Rxd5 and sac the bishop to connect our pawns with f5.  It's completely bat####, but you guys don't seem to want to draw - so let's actually go for a win.  Otherwise we'll wind up consolidated down to a forced draw anyway.

He's not going to mate us with our rook on the board, we at least have the ability to start marching our pawns now with little fear of losing.  

It's high risk/high reward but I can't read the line down far enough right now to see if there's a chance.  Either way, we need him to make an inaccuracy to allow it. 

Personally, were it me playing Kaspy, I'd take my draw and run - but if you want to actually try and win - that's my suggestion.

 
Bender tell me what he does after Rb3 because I don't see it. 

Your suggestion doesn't get us a win because he'll just sacrifice back at some point. 

 
timschochet said:
Bender tell me what he does after Rb3 because I don't see it. 

Your suggestion doesn't get us a win because he'll just sacrifice back at some point. 
Click to expand...
It's more enterprising. If he sacs back, we have a draw once again.

So we either have a long drawn out draw
or we have a more exciting one with a small chance to win if he doesn't sac back.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Rb3, whats our plan?

Get our king up, keep his king cut off.  How are we advancing our pawns?

It's fine - it's just - this is a draw. :shrug:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
timschochet said:
Rb3 if it's a draw let him show us
Click to expand...
Since we have a long thread here discussing the game.  Show me the win. He's a master player, if he blunders a draw from this position I'll eat my hand. 

He has a plan laid out, let's throw him off kilter and play a sac. If you want to play for a win, the lines you have posted aren't doing that.  He can managed a rook xchange any time he wants, then we're left shuffling our bishops and kings around the board for the next 60 moves.

I know a drawn position when I see one. This game is over :shrug:  unless you want to do something that's probably not computer recommended and look further down my line here with me.

 
Oh you actually played the move?  Cmon, you've been asking for other opinions and my help/participation and I'm trying to give you lines here to discuss and you play a move in 5 minutes.

Oy Tim.  We could have at least discussed a bit.  I'm not butt hurt you don't like my idea but I was working on the lines with it.  GL.

 
John Bender said:
Oh you actually played the move?  Cmon, you've been asking for other opinions and my help/participation and I'm trying to give you lines here to discuss and you play a move in 5 minutes.

Oy Tim.  We could have at least discussed a bit.  I'm not butt hurt you don't like my idea but I was working on the lines with it.  GL.
Click to expand...
I apologize, I misunderstood I thought you were good with it. 

Look John you're probably right about the draw. But this is supposed to be a learning experience. We need to play it out. 

 
And we played Rb3 quickly because we have been discussing it for 2 days as the best response to Ra4. We've studied this variation at length. 

 
timschochet said:
I apologize, I misunderstood I thought you were good with it. 

Look John you're probably right about the draw. But this is supposed to be a learning experience. We need to play it out. 
Click to expand...
No problem. I think we should try to be more enterprising is all. This isn't for anything but bragging rights. There are ideas here to not draw (or there were) but play a riskier move while still being able to save a draw ourselves if he doesn't respond correctly. That's the way I like to play though - you know - you've seen our games where I march my h Pawn up the board at you and forget about theory and what the book moves are in an opening and throw you off. Those are the only times I've ever scored a win vs you. And so you know my style. I'll be back later on. Although I already see the drawing line if that's what he wants to go for.   

 
Wilk said:
We know we earned a draw, for giggles at this point let's try bats$$t and see what happens
Click to expand...
My suggested move was not bat####. It's hard to calculate a sacrifice for many who want to just play solid chess but way easier to realize it's safe in such a simplified position as we have here. Having played Kaspy and looked at quite a few of his games, he's going to just remain solid himself. If we play solid in reply, we'll march toward the draw that already seems inevitable. Anyway, not sure your level of sarcasm there - we could have looked at the line together is all I wanted to do.

 
timschochet said:
We've basically got 2 choices here: f5 or Be7. 
Click to expand...
f5

I agree with Bender that this is a draw now. So while I don't think it ultimately matters I think Be7 is a more conservative play that just continues to perpetuate that outcome. f5 at least starts pushing pawns up the board.

 
John Bender said:
My suggested move was not bat####. It's hard to calculate a sacrifice for many who want to just play solid chess but way easier to realize it's safe in such a simplified position as we have here. Having played Kaspy and looked at quite a few of his games, he's going to just remain solid himself. If we play solid in reply, we'll march toward the draw that already seems inevitable. Anyway, not sure your level of sarcasm there - we could have looked at the line together is all I wanted to do.
Click to expand...
No sarcasm. I agree with you. The bat  comment was meant as shorthand for something not obvious, which i am not good enough to see.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
John Bender said:
:thumbup:  Gotcha. Couldn't tell there. Wanted to at least defend my bat#### crazy move a little further :)
Click to expand...
that's my fault. I'm sorry.

Look call me crazy (or stupid, or a poor chess player, all 3 are apt) but I'm not willing to concede a draw yet. Here's my plan:

1. We protect our pawns, obviously. (That means f5 next.) 

2. We capture the d pawn (ideally with our king.)

4. We keep his King contained in the first two rows. 

4. WE MARCH OUR PAWNS UP HIS ###!!!

OK, so it's a pretty basic plan but what the ####? 

Any objections to f5? 

 
timschochet said:
that's my fault. I'm sorry.

Look call me crazy (or stupid, or a poor chess player, all 3 are apt) but I'm not willing to concede a draw yet. Here's my plan:

1. We protect our pawns, obviously. (That means f5 next.) 

2. We capture the d pawn (ideally with our king.)

4. We keep his King contained in the first two rows. 

4. WE MARCH OUR PAWNS UP HIS ###!!!

OK, so it's a pretty basic plan but what the ####? 

Any objections to f5? 
Click to expand...
You doing okay gb?

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top