Felix Jones "needs to touch the ball more" -Jerry Jones (1 Viewer)

[JD8p]

ok good luck, but based on past experience, you really shouldnt be surprised if he is OUT. In fact, you've been warned.

No luck needed...I'm not starting him...

 

[switz]

Is Felix talented? yes

I sure wish he would do something with that talent. Enough excuses for this guy do something will you????

The Felix backers use every excuse but Felix himself.

Hey, Dallas drafted him he must be good.

he was good. very good, with elite potential. then the team, his trainers, or felix himself, decided he needed to get fat and slow to get on the field. certainly worked as he gained the lead role. ofc, he eschewed the skillset that made him enticing and productive in the process.

- hint: it's not Jones

 

[Chaka]

BTW, I've never seen so many people claim an RB lacked talent, or was nothing special, when his YPC is respectable, and his lack of yards is more a product of lack of use than lack of production per touch. It's kinda funny.

In all fairness we have never seen someone so staunchly hold onto a position despite any real evidence to support it.Sure the OL in Dallas is bad but I have seen great RBs* perform better with worse. *Yes over the last three years, I think most would agree, you have been arguing that Felix is/was/will be great. You will probably try to tell me how that hasn't been your position at all, and maybe it isn't, but perception = reality so you might want to think about how you are putting out your message.4.2ypc & 6.5 ypr = meh

 

[road warrior]

I wouldn't bank on Felix not going.He will play.

why?

Because he was barely nicked. Dallas is resting him during the week...Jerry is not going to want to be embarrassed on Sunday night, so Felix will be on the field.

do you really know the extent of his injuries? Serious question, i havent heard any reports. He was in sweatpants and a report said to pick up his more effective backup.

Know this question wasn't to me, but seeing that I follow the team extremely closely figured I'd jump in. As of now, there has been no word. Wade will have his laughable presser in a couple of hours where he'll probably dodge the question.What I do know is that if Felix does not practice on Friday, it's unlikely he'll play. That's been the Cowboys pattern for years. And even if he does play after not practicing all week, I wouldn't have high expectations.

 

[Chaka]

How about neither are good NFL RBs?

I'm trying to think of how to put this without insulting people.When every running back on a team is struggling to run, and all of the running back son the team previously either played at a high level or have shown exceptional talent, it's probably NOT that the running backs aren't good NFL RBs. Logic indicates that three different players aren't all going to see their performance drop off this drastically due to each suddenly losing talent. That's just not reasonable.But who ever said people here were reasonable, huh?

I have no doubt that Felix is talented and that Barber is still serviceable, though it's fairly obvious he has lost a step. But they are 1-6, have a disaster waiting to happen at QB, no chance of the playoffs, and why not see what a Choice-Felix 1-2 would look like? Also, Felix has been a slow healer in the past so Choice could be a good one-week play.People only looking at production from Felix and not looking at the playcalling, game situations, and season situation aren't being very reasonable.

Lots of factors go into explaining Felix's performance this year and all of those you listed are valid. So is the possibility that he has either lost a step from weight gain or simply isn't as good as advertised.Even with all the potential problems I am pretty sure most of us would have expected to see more than zero TDs on 92 touches from Felix. Most of us were thinking that, with his perceived ability, on 92 touches Felix would have scored at least one TD even if by accident.

 

[Chaka]

I wouldn't bank on Felix not going.He will play.

why?

Because he was barely nicked. Dallas is resting him during the week...Jerry is not going to want to be embarrassed on Sunday night, so Felix will be on the field.

do you really know the extent of his injuries? Serious question, i havent heard any reports. He was in sweatpants and a report said to pick up his more effective backup.

Well if a report said so then who am I to argue?

 

[Ghost Rider]

BTW, I've never seen so many people claim an RB lacked talent, or was nothing special, when his YPC is respectable, and his lack of yards is more a product of lack of use than lack of production per touch. It's kinda funny.

In all fairness we have never seen someone so staunchly hold onto a position despite any real evidence to support it.Sure the OL in Dallas is bad but I have seen great RBs* perform better with worse. *Yes over the last three years, I think most would agree, you have been arguing that Felix is/was/will be great. You will probably try to tell me how that hasn't been your position at all, and maybe it isn't, but perception = reality so you might want to think about how you are putting out your message.4.2ypc & 6.5 ypr = meh

I know switz will get pissy over me calling him out like this again, but it is funny to see him continue to give excuses for Felix Jones:"He doesn't get enough carries.""His team doesn't know how to use him.""Their play-caller is dumb.""Their line stinks." Yet when it comes to someone he dislikes, like Jay Cutler, it is always that players' fault when they do not produce or perform well, and he mocks people who give similar excuses to the ones he is giving for Jones for those players he doesn't like. Meanwhile, he continues to beat the Felix Jones drum. It is just comical.

 

[Oscar]

I wouldn't bank on Felix not going.

He will play.

why?

Because he was barely nicked. Dallas is resting him during the week...Jerry is not going to want to be embarrassed on Sunday night, so Felix will be on the field.

do you really know the extent of his injuries? Serious question, i havent heard any reports. He was in sweatpants and a report said to pick up his more effective backup.

Know this question wasn't to me, but seeing that I follow the team extremely closely figured I'd jump in. As of now, there has been no word. Wade will have his laughable presser in a couple of hours where he'll probably dodge the question.

What I do know is that if Felix does not practice on Friday, it's unlikely he'll play. That's been the Cowboys pattern for years. And even if he does play after not practicing all week, I wouldn't have high expectations.

But what would you suspect the ball distribution to be for Choice and Barber if Felix is limited or a DNP?

 

[Chaka]

Is Felix talented? yes

I sure wish he would do something with that talent. Enough excuses for this guy do something will you????

The Felix backers use every excuse but Felix himself.

Hey, Dallas drafted him he must be good.

he was good. very good, with elite potential. then the team, his trainers, or felix himself, decided he needed to get fat and slow to get on the field. certainly worked as he gained the lead role. ofc, he eschewed the skillset that made him enticing and productive in the process.

None of it? Not one shred of it? Not the least little bit can be put on his doorstep?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

BTW, I've never seen so many people claim an RB lacked talent, or was nothing special, when his YPC is respectable, and his lack of yards is more a product of lack of use than lack of production per touch. It's kinda funny.

In all fairness we have never seen someone so staunchly hold onto a position despite any real evidence to support it.Sure the OL in Dallas is bad but I have seen great RBs* perform better with worse. *Yes over the last three years, I think most would agree, you have been arguing that Felix is/was/will be great. You will probably try to tell me how that hasn't been your position at all, and maybe it isn't, but perception = reality so you might want to think about how you are putting out your message.4.2ypc & 6.5 ypr = meh

I know switz will get pissy over me calling him out like this again, but it is funny to see him continue to give excuses for Felix Jones:"He doesn't get enough carries.""His team doesn't know how to use him.""Their play-caller is dumb.""Their line stinks." Yet when it comes to someone he dislikes, like Jay Cutler, it is always that players' fault when they do not produce or perform well, and he mocks people who give similar excuses to the ones he is giving for Jones for those players he doesn't like. Meanwhile, he continues to beat the Felix Jones drum. It is just comical.

Lots of this on this board, its not just Switz with Felix jones and Addai. People love to defend their guys.That being said, I would move Felix for whatever I could get in Dynasty, granted his value is super low right now, but its only gonna get lower.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Lots of this on this board, its not just Switz with Felix jones and Addai. People love to defend their guys.

Agreed.

 

[Chaka]

Lots of this on this board, its not just Switz with Felix jones and Addai.

People love to defend their guys.

Agreed.

That's why it's good not to have 'your guys'.Why don't Buddhists vacuum? Because they don't have any attachments.

Wokka wokka wokka

 

[switz]

BTW, I've never seen so many people claim an RB lacked talent, or was nothing special, when his YPC is respectable, and his lack of yards is more a product of lack of use than lack of production per touch. It's kinda funny.

In all fairness we have never seen someone so staunchly hold onto a position despite any real evidence to support it.Sure the OL in Dallas is bad but I have seen great RBs* perform better with worse. *Yes over the last three years, I think most would agree, you have been arguing that Felix is/was/will be great. You will probably try to tell me how that hasn't been your position at all, and maybe it isn't, but perception = reality so you might want to think about how you are putting out your message.4.2ypc & 6.5 ypr = meh

I think Felix will be great. I think there is plenty of evidence to support it, more evidence pro-Felix than anti-Felix.And, unless you are referring to Barry Sanders, you haven't seen great RBs do more with less. It just doesn't happen.

 

[switz]

BTW, I've never seen so many people claim an RB lacked talent, or was nothing special, when his YPC is respectable, and his lack of yards is more a product of lack of use than lack of production per touch. It's kinda funny.

In all fairness we have never seen someone so staunchly hold onto a position despite any real evidence to support it.Sure the OL in Dallas is bad but I have seen great RBs* perform better with worse. *Yes over the last three years, I think most would agree, you have been arguing that Felix is/was/will be great. You will probably try to tell me how that hasn't been your position at all, and maybe it isn't, but perception = reality so you might want to think about how you are putting out your message.4.2ypc & 6.5 ypr = meh

I know switz will get pissy over me calling him out like this again, but it is funny to see him continue to give excuses for Felix Jones:"He doesn't get enough carries.""His team doesn't know how to use him.""Their play-caller is dumb.""Their line stinks." Yet when it comes to someone he dislikes, like Jay Cutler, it is always that players' fault when they do not produce or perform well, and he mocks people who give similar excuses to the ones he is giving for Jones for those players he doesn't like. Meanwhile, he continues to beat the Felix Jones drum. It is just comical.

I agree there are more factors in Jay Cutler's abysmal performance than just Cutler. I just think of all the components, Cutler is the largest part of the problem. He's given plenty of opportunity, has plenty of targets, and continues to make bad choices.In Jones case, I agree there are things he could improve on, but he's nowhere near the largest part of the problem. He's - from all evidence this year - the best RB in Dallas. Every RB is having a hard time behind that line, and the playcalling is horribly lopsided against the run. Those are facts not up for debate. I guess the question iso you think he does get enough carries?Is the team using him well?Is their play caller calling games well?Is their OL good?They are only excuses when they aren't true - as if often the case when Cutler apologists try to put out reasons for his failures.

 

[todisco1]

He's given plenty of opportunity, has plenty of targets, and continues to make bad choices.

Re: Cutler, do you really think he has quality targets at WR? I don't think he has the worst in the league, but I'm not really sold on *any* Chicago WR being quality talent yet. Not that I think Cutler is blameless, he's not by any stretch, just curious to what you meant by "plenty of targets."Sorry for the hikack.

 

[switz]

Did you watch that video? Sure, there are things Jones could potentially improve on - like every single player in the NFL - but the reason he's not having a ton of success is well illustrated in that video, and the amount of it that can be laid on Jones doorstep is maybe 5% of all the problems.

 

[switz]

He's given plenty of opportunity, has plenty of targets, and continues to make bad choices.

Re: Cutler, do you really think he has quality targets at WR? I don't think he has the worst in the league, but I'm not really sold on *any* Chicago WR being quality talent yet. Not that I think Cutler is blameless, he's not by any stretch, just curious to what you meant by "plenty of targets."Sorry for the hikack.

Hester, Knox, Olsen, Forte, Taylor - and Aromashadu if they'd play him.I think Knox has plenty of potential to be a very good WR. Olsen is a very good TE. Forte and Taylor are great pass catching RBs. Hester I was never sold on, but he is a deep threat and an option.I think Cutler has the targets to be successful, yeah. Could you imagine Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, or another top flight QB using those guys? They'd be really really good IMO./end hijack

 

[switz]

Even with all the potential problems I am pretty sure most of us would have expected to see more than zero TDs on 92 touches from Felix. Most of us were thinking that, with his perceived ability, on 92 touches Felix would have scored at least one TD even if by accident.

Yeah that's a disappointment, but the Cowboys offense on the whole isn't scoring TDs, and I'm hard pressed to see where the entire offensive struggles can be placed at Jones doorstep. I'd love to see him break a long one for a TD, and if there's any area where he could improve it's top end speed. I don't see him that much slower than before, but perhaps that is an issue. But it's not a glaring issue, and not the main, or even one of the main reasons the team is struggling to score TDs.

 

[fruity pebbles]

That was a very nice run, ill give you that. One of his best this year. He needs to do that more cause right now hes getting tackled 4 outta 5 times on that play.

 

[Chaka]

BTW, I've never seen so many people claim an RB lacked talent, or was nothing special, when his YPC is respectable, and his lack of yards is more a product of lack of use than lack of production per touch. It's kinda funny.

In all fairness we have never seen someone so staunchly hold onto a position despite any real evidence to support it.Sure the OL in Dallas is bad but I have seen great RBs* perform better with worse. *Yes over the last three years, I think most would agree, you have been arguing that Felix is/was/will be great. You will probably try to tell me how that hasn't been your position at all, and maybe it isn't, but perception = reality so you might want to think about how you are putting out your message.4.2ypc & 6.5 ypr = meh

I think Felix will be great. I think there is plenty of evidence to support it, more evidence pro-Felix than anti-Felix.And, unless you are referring to Barry Sanders, you haven't seen great RBs do more with less. It just doesn't happen.

Is Dallas' offensive line so much worse than San Francisco, Seattle, Washington, Indianapolis, San Diego, Arizona and KC? Is it a situation where Dallas' OL worst in the league and #2 isn't even close?Gore, Forsett, Torrain, Addai, Tolbert, Matthews, Hightower, Jones and Charles are all doing more than Felix behind those offensive, offensive lines. Gore and, it looks like, Charles are the only ones of those guys that I would call great current RBs but all are doing more than Felix.Even a guy like DeAngelo has more 20 yard gains and TDs than Felix on a team with a crappy OL and absolutely zero support from the passing game. And he is averaging only 0.1 YPC less than Felix.There is a lot of blame to go around for Felix but if he was as good as you are advertising we should expect to see more from his limited opportunities.I hope he turns it around but I am not holding my breath.

 

[Chaka]

BTW, I've never seen so many people claim an RB lacked talent, or was nothing special, when his YPC is respectable, and his lack of yards is more a product of lack of use than lack of production per touch. It's kinda funny.

In all fairness we have never seen someone so staunchly hold onto a position despite any real evidence to support it.Sure the OL in Dallas is bad but I have seen great RBs* perform better with worse.

*Yes over the last three years, I think most would agree, you have been arguing that Felix is/was/will be great. You will probably try to tell me how that hasn't been your position at all, and maybe it isn't, but perception = reality so you might want to think about how you are putting out your message.

4.2ypc & 6.5 ypr = meh

I know switz will get pissy over me calling him out like this again, but it is funny to see him continue to give excuses for Felix Jones:"He doesn't get enough carries."

"His team doesn't know how to use him."

"Their play-caller is dumb."

"Their line stinks."

Yet when it comes to someone he dislikes, like Jay Cutler, it is always that players' fault when they do not produce or perform well, and he mocks people who give similar excuses to the ones he is giving for Jones for those players he doesn't like. Meanwhile, he continues to beat the Felix Jones drum. It is just comical.

I agree there are more factors in Jay Cutler's abysmal performance than just Cutler. I just think of all the components, Cutler is the largest part of the problem. He's given plenty of opportunity, has plenty of targets, and continues to make bad choices.

Cutler has one legitimate NFL pass catching target in Greg Olson and a bunch of Junior Varsity players filling out the rest of the receiving corps.And the Chicago line is easily as bad as Dallas', probably worse. Forte is only averaging 3.9ypc (4.2 for Felix) but he still managed six TDs on 116 touches.

 

[Chaka]

Are you really going to hold up one touch as the entire story of what is wrong with Felix Jones?I hope you don't question why I doubt pretty much every statistical argument you present in favor of Felix. You seem to think cherry picking data tells the whole story.

 

[Chaka]

Hester, Knox, Olsen, Forte, Taylor - and Aromashadu if they'd play him.

This is a horrible receiving corps. Horrible.

 

[road warrior]

But what would you suspect the ball distribution to be for Choice and Barber if Felix is limited or a DNP?

-------------

I wish I could tell you. Gut says to stay away from the situation unless you are desperate. Still appears that Barber will get the goal line carries, but the Cowboys have been luckier to find a jeannie in a bottle than the goal line this year.

The offensive line has been beyond offensive. Felix worries me because if any of these backs could overcome that, it should be him... and I haven't seen him make anyone miss nor get around the corner with burst like he did last year. The game vs. the Vikings is proof. They threw 17 checkdowns / screens and got Felix in space on most of those. When he made nothing, I began to worry.

Gun to head, if Felix is out, I'd guess a 60/40 Barber/Choice split. Jerry is faithful (stubborn) to a fault with his vets.

 

[switz]

I could show you that on nearly every carry Jones is hit in the backfield, but you'd still say I was cherry picking data

 

[switz]

BTW, I've never seen so many people claim an RB lacked talent, or was nothing special, when his YPC is respectable, and his lack of yards is more a product of lack of use than lack of production per touch. It's kinda funny.

In all fairness we have never seen someone so staunchly hold onto a position despite any real evidence to support it.Sure the OL in Dallas is bad but I have seen great RBs* perform better with worse.

*Yes over the last three years, I think most would agree, you have been arguing that Felix is/was/will be great. You will probably try to tell me how that hasn't been your position at all, and maybe it isn't, but perception = reality so you might want to think about how you are putting out your message.

4.2ypc & 6.5 ypr = meh

I think Felix will be great. I think there is plenty of evidence to support it, more evidence pro-Felix than anti-Felix.And, unless you are referring to Barry Sanders, you haven't seen great RBs do more with less. It just doesn't happen.

Is Dallas' offensive line so much worse than San Francisco, Seattle, Washington, Indianapolis, San Diego, Arizona and KC? Is it a situation where Dallas' OL worst in the league and #2 isn't even close?Gore, Forsett, Torrain, Addai, Tolbert, Matthews, Hightower, Jones and Charles are all doing more than Felix behind those offensive, offensive lines. Gore and, it looks like, Charles are the only ones of those guys that I would call great current RBs but all are doing more than Felix.

I hope he turns it around but I am not holding my breath.

Most if not all of those OLs are better than Dallas. And the other question is how many carries are those RBs getting? Outside of Charles, all are getting a lot more work.ETA - the fact you even include the Chiefs indicates you have no clue about how OLs are doing around the league. Try reading this article. Especially:

Actually the unit behind the success of the offense is probably the offensive line. Cassel has taken only eight sacks and the Chiefs are fifth in Adjusted Sack Rate after ranking 25th a year ago. They are third in Adjusted Line Yards and lead the league with runners only getting stuffed at the line on 11 percent of carries.

 

[switz]

And the Chicago line is easily as bad as Dallas', probably worse. Forte is only averaging 3.9ypc (4.2 for Felix) but he still managed six TDs on 116 touches.

Chicago's OL is not as bad as Dallas'. Fortes YPC is the highest in his career, not exactly evidence the line isn't doing it's job. TDs are probably the worst means of measuring the effectiveness of ANY player.HTH

 

[Chaka]

I doubt you could demonstrate what you state.And you really don't see the flaw with the one carry being being used to extrapolate the entirety of his carries, do you?

 

[cvnpoka]

fwiw, football outsiders have dallas at 20th best run blocking line. bears at 24.

 

[Clifford]

And the Chicago line is easily as bad as Dallas', probably worse. Forte is only averaging 3.9ypc (4.2 for Felix) but he still managed six TDs on 116 touches.

Chicago's OL is not as bad as Dallas'. Fortes YPC is the highest in his career, not exactly evidence the line isn't doing it's job. TDs are probably the worst means of measuring the effectiveness of ANY player.HTH

Wow, you are the only person (including Bears fans) who I have seen get this right. They are actually a decent run-blocking unit. In their last game they blocked their way to three consecutive first downs with Forte running up the gut. Then Cutler threw his fourth pick to DeAngelo.They are, however, the asbolute worst pass-blocking line that has likely ever been assembled at any level of the game high-school or above. They are putrid.Which is why I said Bears should just fire Martz, run a 3-TE 1WR set for the rest of the season, and pass 35% of the time.

 

[Chaka]

Most if not all of those OLs are better than Dallas. And the other question is how many carries are those RBs getting? Outside of Charles, all are getting a lot more work.

ETA - the fact you even include the Chiefs indicates you have no clue about how OLs are doing around the league. Try reading this article. Especially:

Actually the unit behind the success of the offense is probably the offensive line. Cassel has taken only eight sacks and the Chiefs are fifth in Adjusted Sack Rate after ranking 25th a year ago. They are third in Adjusted Line Yards and lead the league with runners only getting stuffed at the line on 11 percent of carries.

Let's see Felix has 68 carries. Gore (164), Forsett (75), Torrain (91), Matthews (78), Addai (93), Tolbert (79) and in an interesting twist to the "you don't know what you are talking about" argument Charles (103) and Jones (118).I understand that the Chief offensive line is much improved this year, are you telling me that isn't one of the biggest surprises of the entire season? But are they really that much improved, after being one of the worst all last year, or are the RBs making them look much better? If Felix was putting up those numbers you would be arguing that it is because of his ability not his line.

Look man, you have been wrong about Felix in the one place it counts, on the field. I agree that he can still turn it around over his career but whether he will is not nearly as bankable as you believe.

 

[duaneok66]

A person is not truly "great" at what he does if you have to constantly make excuses for him -

 

[Chaka]

And the Chicago line is easily as bad as Dallas', probably worse. Forte is only averaging 3.9ypc (4.2 for Felix) but he still managed six TDs on 116 touches.

Chicago's OL is not as bad as Dallas'. Fortes YPC is the highest in his career, not exactly evidence the line isn't doing it's job. TDs are probably the worst means of measuring the effectiveness of ANY player.HTH

That is crazy talk.31 sacks for Chi (32nd), 12 for Dallas (7th).

4.0 ypc for Chi (19th) , 3.7 for Dallas (25th).

Do you think Forte is a better RB than Felix in any way (vision, speed, elusiveness etc)? My point about TDs is that if a limited guy like Forte is lucky enough to break off six on 116 touches we should expect Felix to get lucky enough to get more than ZERO on 92 touches.

 

[Chaka]

About the only thing I know for sure when it comes to being a running back is that he is better than Marion Barber.

 

[cvnpoka]

And the Chicago line is easily as bad as Dallas', probably worse. Forte is only averaging 3.9ypc (4.2 for Felix) but he still managed six TDs on 116 touches.

Chicago's OL is not as bad as Dallas'. Fortes YPC is the highest in his career, not exactly evidence the line isn't doing it's job. TDs are probably the worst means of measuring the effectiveness of ANY player.HTH

That is crazy talk.31 sacks for Chi (32nd), 12 for Dallas (7th).

4.0 ypc for Chi (19th) , 3.7 for Dallas (25th).

Do you think Forte is a better RB than Felix in any way (vision, speed, elusiveness etc)? My point about TDs is that if a limited guy like Forte is lucky enough to break off six on 116 touches we should expect Felix to get lucky enough to get more than ZERO on 92 touches.

why are you using sacks to compare run blocking? realize they are different skillsets.

 

[switz]

And the Chicago line is easily as bad as Dallas', probably worse. Forte is only averaging 3.9ypc (4.2 for Felix) but he still managed six TDs on 116 touches.

Chicago's OL is not as bad as Dallas'. Fortes YPC is the highest in his career, not exactly evidence the line isn't doing it's job. TDs are probably the worst means of measuring the effectiveness of ANY player.HTH

That is crazy talk.31 sacks for Chi (32nd), 12 for Dallas (7th).

4.0 ypc for Chi (19th) , 3.7 for Dallas (25th).

Do you think Forte is a better RB than Felix in any way (vision, speed, elusiveness etc)? My point about TDs is that if a limited guy like Forte is lucky enough to break off six on 116 touches we should expect Felix to get lucky enough to get more than ZERO on 92 touches.

Let me be a little more clear, as I had assumed the context would make things more obvious to you than they did. In a thread about a runningback, when I talk about OLs, I'm referring to their run blocking, since most RBs aren't dropping back to throw passes. And as clifford noted above, Chicago's run blocking has been improving over the course of the season. They are better than Dallas, yet Forte still has a lower YPC

 

[switz]

And the Chicago line is easily as bad as Dallas', probably worse. Forte is only averaging 3.9ypc (4.2 for Felix) but he still managed six TDs on 116 touches.

Chicago's OL is not as bad as Dallas'. Fortes YPC is the highest in his career, not exactly evidence the line isn't doing it's job. TDs are probably the worst means of measuring the effectiveness of ANY player.HTH

That is crazy talk.31 sacks for Chi (32nd), 12 for Dallas (7th).

4.0 ypc for Chi (19th) , 3.7 for Dallas (25th).

Do you think Forte is a better RB than Felix in any way (vision, speed, elusiveness etc)? My point about TDs is that if a limited guy like Forte is lucky enough to break off six on 116 touches we should expect Felix to get lucky enough to get more than ZERO on 92 touches.

why are you using sacks to compare run blocking? realize they are different skillsets.

no, he clearly doesn't.

 

[Chaka]

And the Chicago line is easily as bad as Dallas', probably worse. Forte is only averaging 3.9ypc (4.2 for Felix) but he still managed six TDs on 116 touches.

Chicago's OL is not as bad as Dallas'. Fortes YPC is the highest in his career, not exactly evidence the line isn't doing it's job. TDs are probably the worst means of measuring the effectiveness of ANY player.HTH

That is crazy talk.31 sacks for Chi (32nd), 12 for Dallas (7th).

4.0 ypc for Chi (19th) , 3.7 for Dallas (25th).

Do you think Forte is a better RB than Felix in any way (vision, speed, elusiveness etc)? My point about TDs is that if a limited guy like Forte is lucky enough to break off six on 116 touches we should expect Felix to get lucky enough to get more than ZERO on 92 touches.

Let me be a little more clear, as I had assumed the context would make things more obvious to you than they did. In a thread about a runningback, when I talk about OLs, I'm referring to their run blocking, since most RBs aren't dropping back to throw passes. And as clifford noted above, Chicago's run blocking has been improving over the course of the season. They are better than Dallas, yet Forte still has a lower YPC

It's a nice try to distract from the data but in your rush to insult you haven't discussed whether being the 19th (4.0) best run blocking line is significantly different than 25th (3.7). But if you insist on continuing to look at an imcomplete picture then Chicago RBs are averaging 3.8ypc and Dallas 3.6ypc. Wow those Bears are world beaters compared to the Cowboys.

 

[Chaka]

And the Chicago line is easily as bad as Dallas', probably worse. Forte is only averaging 3.9ypc (4.2 for Felix) but he still managed six TDs on 116 touches.

Chicago's OL is not as bad as Dallas'. Fortes YPC is the highest in his career, not exactly evidence the line isn't doing it's job. TDs are probably the worst means of measuring the effectiveness of ANY player.HTH

That is crazy talk.31 sacks for Chi (32nd), 12 for Dallas (7th).

4.0 ypc for Chi (19th) , 3.7 for Dallas (25th).

Do you think Forte is a better RB than Felix in any way (vision, speed, elusiveness etc)? My point about TDs is that if a limited guy like Forte is lucky enough to break off six on 116 touches we should expect Felix to get lucky enough to get more than ZERO on 92 touches.

why are you using sacks to compare run blocking? realize they are different skillsets.

Surprised by that comment considering you posted this:

fwiw, football outsiders have dallas at 20th best run blocking line. bears at 24.

 

[Chaka]

Again I ask, does Felix bear no responsibility for his inability to produce this season?

I get that switz thinks 100% of the blame falls on the oline & play calling but if 66% of the plays called are passes and defenses need to defend guys like Austin & Witten (Dez and Roy W have been decent too, better than anything the Bears have on their roster) defenses are either dropping eight into coverage or turning six guys loose to get after the QB.

Even with a horrible OL, in that situation, with all the DL tearing upfield and the DBs in 1-on-1 coverage, shouldn't a great back be able to create his own big plays? He should be a mismatch for any LB in open space. Breaking ankles and making defenders lose equipment all over the field. It's just not happening.

I am simply not buying that Felix's inability to do virtually anything is not partly his fault (more than your 5% concession switz).

Inevitably Felix will tear a couple off and give switz some ammunition to defend his "Felix is the 2011 SOD" and "It's everyone else's fault Felix hasn't been the 2011 SOD".

I hope that one day you turn out to be right about Felix switz, he was a ton of fun to watch at Arkansas.

 

[cvnpoka]

not sure why you are surprised? footballoutsiders rates run blocking and pass blocking as separate metrics. afaik, they do not use sacks in their analysis of run blocking.

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

 

[cvnpoka]

interestingly, according to fo, dallas ranks 29th in 2nd level yards, and 30th in open field yards, but only 10th in percentage of plays stuffed. that could be considered an indictment of the running backs.

also they rank well in power success at 5th in the league.

 

[switz]

interestingly, according to fo, dallas ranks 29th in 2nd level yards, and 30th in open field yards, but only 10th in percentage of plays stuffed. that could be considered an indictment of the running backs.also they rank well in power success at 5th in the league.

Stuffed only accounts for if the RB is tackled in the backfield, not if he's just hit but breaks a tackle in the backfield. Hence Barber and Jones rarely get tackled for a loss, despite getting hit often behind the LOS. There's a nice article about this on blogging the boys. It mentions that on man-on-man runs with straight ahead blocking, the OL is having success. These are often the short yardage, Barber runs. However on pulling runs where the OL is required to move laterally, as on most of Jones runs, the OL is too old and slow to be successful.I actually came in here to post that Jones practiced today and is expected to be 100% ready to play this week.ETA- spelling, darn autocorrection

 

[Ghost Rider]

Chicago has a better O-Line than Dallas? On what planet? Tell you what: before last week's game, according to Jaws, Chicago had given up 8 sacks where the defender got to the QB without even being touched. 8. That is an obscenely high number for that kind of thing. Even if you want to blame it on Cutler for holding on to the ball too long, which he does at times, especially on some of those sacks in the NYG game (which probably resulted from the concussion he received from being knocked around so much), that is still ridiculous.

 

[switz]

Chicago has a better O-Line than Dallas? On what planet? Tell you what: before last week's game, according to Jaws, Chicago had given up 8 sacks where the defender got to the QB without even being touched. 8. That is an obscenely high number for that kind of thing. Even if you want to blame it on Cutler for holding on to the ball too long, which he does at times, especially on some of those sacks in the NYG game (which probably resulted from the concussion he received from being knocked around so much), that is still ridiculous.

did you miss all the replies on that already?I'll simplify it for you. Sacks have nothing to do with the running game. Pass blocking is not the same as run blocking.And yes, as far as run blocking goes, Chicago has a better OL than DAL.

 

[Ghost Rider]

No, I read all of the replies, but so what? Neither team is good at run blocking.

And saying sacks have nothing to do with the running game is ignorance speaking. When a team is not good at running the ball or doesn't even try to run the ball, like Chicago often does in regards to the latter, it makes it easier for the defense to tee off and get a bunch of sacks, like what the Giants did to the Bears.

I'll simplify it for you: the better you run the ball, the more respect a defense has to show the run, which slows down the pass rush since the defense doesn't always know if they are going to run or throw.

 

[cvnpoka]

And yes, as far as run blocking goes, Chicago has a better OL than DAL.

this is questionable. both are similarly bad.

 

[switz]

No, I read all of the replies, but so what? Neither team is good at run blocking.

And saying sacks have nothing to do with the running game is ignorance speaking. When a team is not good at running the ball or doesn't even try to run the ball, like Chicago often does in regards to the latter, it makes it easier for the defense to tee off and get a bunch of sacks, like what the Giants did to the Bears.

I'll simplify it for you: the better you run the ball, the more respect a defense has to show the run, which slows down the pass rush since the defense doesn't always know if they are going to run or throw.

I didn't say either were good, merely that Chicago is BETTER than Dallas. That has been confirmed by someone who follows Chicago, and is supported by Chicago's RB numbers.A team abandoning the run isn't necessarily an indication they can't run, or that their OL is bad at run blocking. Chicago, like Dallas, has an OC enamored with the pass, and prefers to throw even if it's not the strength of the team.

The number of sacks Cutler takes is not related to whether Chicago has a good run-blocking line or not. Defenses respecting the run has more to do with the likelihood of the team running, not the effectiveness of their running. And in Chicago (and Dallas) the team is less likely to run than pass. Yet Dallas OL does a decent job at pass blocking (better than Chicago), and an inferior job at run blocking (worse than Chicago).

 

[Chaka]

No, I read all of the replies, but so what? Neither team is good at run blocking. And saying sacks have nothing to do with the running game is ignorance speaking. When a team is not good at running the ball or doesn't even try to run the ball, like Chicago often does in regards to the latter, it makes it easier for the defense to tee off and get a bunch of sacks, like what the Giants did to the Bears. I'll simplify it for you: the better you run the ball, the more respect a defense has to show the run, which slows down the pass rush since the defense doesn't always know if they are going to run or throw.

Just stop. Didn't you know that Chicago and Dallas roll out entirely different offensive linemen depending on if they are going to run or pass?Oh and passing games have no impact on running games in the NFL. That's a fact, it's science.

 

[switz]

No, I read all of the replies, but so what? Neither team is good at run blocking. And saying sacks have nothing to do with the running game is ignorance speaking. When a team is not good at running the ball or doesn't even try to run the ball, like Chicago often does in regards to the latter, it makes it easier for the defense to tee off and get a bunch of sacks, like what the Giants did to the Bears. I'll simplify it for you: the better you run the ball, the more respect a defense has to show the run, which slows down the pass rush since the defense doesn't always know if they are going to run or throw.

Just stop. Didn't you know that Chicago and Dallas roll out entirely different offensive linemen depending on if they are going to run or pass?Oh and passing games have no impact on running games in the NFL. That's a fact, it's science.

The oversimplification of things hinders your ability to understand things accurately.