Fence Damages Pipe - Who to Sue (1 Viewer)

[MaxThreshold]

About 10 years ago my neighbor built a fence right on or very near the property line. This is no chain link fence but a huge privacy fence. We live on a hill with the neighbor below me. They also have a retaining wall and the fence sits above the retaining wall.

Well, fast forward to about a month ago when the neighbor starts complaining that water from my storm lateral is draining into her retaining wall causing it to collapse. Now, about 6-8 years ago I disconnected the gutters from the city sewers and drained them out into my front yard so I think this is why it took so long to notice any damage - the only water going into the storm lateral was from my sump pump. I think you can guess what's coming next - turns out that the fence company they hired to put in the fence broke the lateral in 3 spots so all this time my sump water was draining into her retaining wall - BECAUSE HER FENCE POSTS BROKE THE PIPE causing about 9K worth of damage to 40 feet of pipe that needed to be hand dug out and replaced because it was too narrow of a space to get any equipment.

So one of the fence posts goes directly thru the pipe and on the other two the cement footings broke the pipe. On top of that, when they poured the cement for the footings the cement actually went into the pipe and blocked most of it up! And on top of THAT, it turns out this fence company supposedly went out of business several years ago. I can't verify since she won't give me the name.

So I showed the the damage and they said that my pipe is on their property and it's my fault, not theirs. Yeah, crazy. Since they were insisting that they were NOT going to pay for it no matter what, I went thru my insurance company and they covered the cost for all of the repairs - sans my $2500 deductible.

So I commissioned a official property survey of my property and it turns out that my pipe is actually on my property so that means their fence and/or their fence footings crossed over into my property when they dug out for the cement footings. Again, keep in mind that these fence posts are huge and by code have to go at least 4ft deep (unlike chain link which only needs to be 2 ft) - so definitely not hand dug I'm guessing.

Anyways, I'm hearing conflicting stories on who to pursue to get my $2500. On one hand, I'm hearing that I have to sue the fence company that did the work and since they are out of business I'm #### out of luck and I can't recover my $2500.

On the other hand, I'm also hearing that I should go after the neighbor and sue her since she hired the fence company in the first place. Since the fence company was acting as an agent on her behalf to install the fence, she is responsible.

Couple things to note:

• My house was built in 1954 and hers in 1955. So all of my laterals were already in place before her house was even built.
• I live in Milwaukee County
• The survey and surveyor clearly states that the pipe is on my property
• The lateral is 4" clay pipe, which means that the pipe has been in the ground a long, long time so it was here before either of us moved into our respective homes. I guess what I'm getting at is this was not a new installation or even recently - it's the original pipe.
• I have had the City plumbing inspector out here several times to inspect not only the damage they did but to ensure that I was not somehow violating any codes. I was not in any violation of any codes. In fact, by pulling my gutters out of the city pipes he said that was well above and beyond what is expected.
• My sump pump connects to the underground pipe thru a 4" cast iron connection built right into the foundation in my basement. Since I live on a hill i can't drain into the yards as it would all run into her yard anyways and she would complain about that. And since i have an alley in back and sidewalk in front i can't drain it on them either as that would violate code. Basically, he said that where we live we are forced to use the city storm sewers - and that I was up to code anyways.
• Since the damage was FIRST discovered a month ago, then I believe I'm still within my rights to go after someone. I'm pretty sure the Statute of Limitations doesn't apply to the installation date since no one could have possible known about this until it was discovered like it was last month.

This would be a small claims court case, obviously, but what's the consensus here? Anyone with any experience that can give me some advice? Or any lawyerly or know it all types that can comment? I find it hard to believe that I'm #### out of luck on this but since I don't know the law, i guess it's POSSIBLE.

Thanks, guys!

 

[fdas2]

SUE ERR'BODY!

 

[Long Ball Larry]

sue everyone!

:takesbow:

 

[Bucky86]

SUE ERR'BODY!

This.

 

[Dan Lambskin]

PM Woz

 

[nirad3]

Not only would I sue her for the $2,500, but I'd include whatever you paid the surveyor.

 

[mr roboto]

Is a 'lateral' like a 'main' or 'pipe'? Never heard that before.

You're SoL. Many people are stuck paying for ####ty work a crap contractor did. They are out of business. You got most of it covered.

If you sue her (likely she had no ####### clue what these clowns did) you'll have a neighbor enemy for ever. Not worth it.

We're there permits pulled for the fence?

 

[Bucky86]

Is a 'lateral' like a 'main' or 'pipe'? Never heard that before.

You're SoL. Many people are stuck paying for ####ty work a crap contractor did. They are out of business. You got most of it covered.

If you sue her (likely she had no ####### clue what these clowns did) you'll have a neighbor enemy for ever. Not worth it.

We're there permits pulled for the fence?

It seems like $2,500 is worth the price to keep the peace. Anything else you've been wanting done that you could use this as a way to get? Annoying trees, or parking situation?

 

[MaxThreshold]

Is a 'lateral' like a 'main' or 'pipe'? Never heard that before.

You're SoL. Many people are stuck paying for ####ty work a crap contractor did. They are out of business. You got most of it covered.

If you sue her (likely she had no ####### clue what these clowns did) you'll have a neighbor enemy for ever. Not worth it.

We're there permits pulled for the fence?

It seems like $2,500 is worth the price to keep the peace. Anything else you've been wanting done that you could use this as a way to get? Annoying trees, or parking situation?

I guess i forgot to clarify that we've never really gotten along to begin with. It's not Hatfield and McCoy stuff, though. Just some complaining every now and then.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Is a 'lateral' like a 'main' or 'pipe'? Never heard that before.

You're SoL. Many people are stuck paying for ####ty work a crap contractor did. They are out of business. You got most of it covered.

If you sue her (likely she had no ####### clue what these clowns did) you'll have a neighbor enemy for ever. Not worth it.

We're there permits pulled for the fence?

Yeah, sorry, that's what the city inspector kept saying. To me it's just a 4" clay pipe that ties into the city sewer/water system.

 

[nirad3]

Is a 'lateral' like a 'main' or 'pipe'? Never heard that before.

You're SoL. Many people are stuck paying for ####ty work a crap contractor did. They are out of business. You got most of it covered.

If you sue her (likely she had no ####### clue what these clowns did) you'll have a neighbor enemy for ever. Not worth it.

We're there permits pulled for the fence?

The lateral is what connects the residence (or whatever building) to the main line.

What would looking up the permits do?

 

[MaxThreshold]

Is a 'lateral' like a 'main' or 'pipe'? Never heard that before.

You're SoL. Many people are stuck paying for ####ty work a crap contractor did. They are out of business. You got most of it covered.

If you sue her (likely she had no ####### clue what these clowns did) you'll have a neighbor enemy for ever. Not worth it.

We're there permits pulled for the fence?

It seems like $2,500 is worth the price to keep the peace. Anything else you've been wanting done that you could use this as a way to get? Annoying trees, or parking situation?

Again we never got along that well anyways and we're going to put the home up for sale soon (which is why we put in the claim).

 

[mr roboto]

Is a 'lateral' like a 'main' or 'pipe'? Never heard that before.

You're SoL. Many people are stuck paying for ####ty work a crap contractor did. They are out of business. You got most of it covered.

If you sue her (likely she had no ####### clue what these clowns did) you'll have a neighbor enemy for ever. Not worth it.

We're there permits pulled for the fence?

The lateral is what connects the residence (or whatever building) to the main line.

What would looking up the permits do?

If she was required to get permits and didn't (ie no inspection or require my to locate underground lines and pipes) she's definitely liable. Maybe you still don't sue but if you wanted to it would improve your case.

 

[bentley]

So many words. Bang the wife.

 

[BroadwayG]

At the very least charge her $500 per month to keep the fence on your property.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Is a 'lateral' like a 'main' or 'pipe'? Never heard that before.

You're SoL. Many people are stuck paying for ####ty work a crap contractor did. They are out of business. You got most of it covered.

If you sue her (likely she had no ####### clue what these clowns did) you'll have a neighbor enemy for ever. Not worth it.

We're there permits pulled for the fence?

The lateral is what connects the residence (or whatever building) to the main line.

What would looking up the permits do?

If she was required to get permits and didn't (ie no inspection or require my to locate underground lines and pipes) she's definitely liable. Maybe you still don't sue but if you wanted to it would improve your case.

My guess is she'll just turn around and say that was the fence company's job to do and she's still not responsible.

 

[eoMMan]

Hide yo wife, hide yo kids, they suing everybody round here.

 

[MaxThreshold]

At the very least charge her $500 per month to keep the fence on your property.

At least for 5 months, anyways.

 

[nirad3]

Is a 'lateral' like a 'main' or 'pipe'? Never heard that before.

You're SoL. Many people are stuck paying for ####ty work a crap contractor did. They are out of business. You got most of it covered.

If you sue her (likely she had no ####### clue what these clowns did) you'll have a neighbor enemy for ever. Not worth it.

We're there permits pulled for the fence?

The lateral is what connects the residence (or whatever building) to the main line.

What would looking up the permits do?

If she was required to get permits and didn't (ie no inspection or require my to locate underground lines and pipes) she's definitely liable. Maybe you still don't sue but if you wanted to it would improve your case.

Having it unpermitted would help his case, but I think she's liable regardless. Maybe I need to go back and read the OP.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Is a 'lateral' like a 'main' or 'pipe'? Never heard that before.

You're SoL. Many people are stuck paying for ####ty work a crap contractor did. They are out of business. You got most of it covered.

If you sue her (likely she had no ####### clue what these clowns did) you'll have a neighbor enemy for ever. Not worth it.

We're there permits pulled for the fence?

It seems like $2,500 is worth the price to keep the peace. Anything else you've been wanting done that you could use this as a way to get? Annoying trees, or parking situation?

This cow came hard at Max, as far as I'm concerned, the enemy status is already there. I would simply have her cut a cut and dry check for 2500. She raised the issue in the first place.

If you are "friends" (hard to believe all info considered), or she is an old bitty widow hardship case, I could see cutting the line at 1250 and calling it a day.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Is a 'lateral' like a 'main' or 'pipe'? Never heard that before.

You're SoL. Many people are stuck paying for ####ty work a crap contractor did. They are out of business. You got most of it covered.

If you sue her (likely she had no ####### clue what these clowns did) you'll have a neighbor enemy for ever. Not worth it.

We're there permits pulled for the fence?

It seems like $2,500 is worth the price to keep the peace. Anything else you've been wanting done that you could use this as a way to get? Annoying trees, or parking situation?

This cow came hard at Max, as far as I'm concerned, the enemy status is already there. I would simply have her cut a cut and dry check for 2500. She raised the issue in the first place.

If you are "friends" (hard to believe all info considered), or she is an old bitty widow hardship case, I could see cutting the line at 1250 and calling it a day.

Pretty audacious to a) accuse me of making them cause damage and b) not even bothering to look at the damage she caused because her son insists the pipe is on their property (which we have proof now that it isn't).

 

[BroadwayG]

At the very least charge her $500 per month to keep the fence on your property.

At least for 5 months, anyways.

Until the statute of limitations for filing a complaint with the city/town passes.

 

[mr roboto]

Is a 'lateral' like a 'main' or 'pipe'? Never heard that before.

You're SoL. Many people are stuck paying for ####ty work a crap contractor did. They are out of business. You got most of it covered.

If you sue her (likely she had no ####### clue what these clowns did) you'll have a neighbor enemy for ever. Not worth it.

We're there permits pulled for the fence?

The lateral is what connects the residence (or whatever building) to the main line.

What would looking up the permits do?

If she was required to get permits and didn't (ie no inspection or require my to locate underground lines and pipes) she's definitely liable. Maybe you still don't sue but if you wanted to it would improve your case.

Having it unpermitted would help his case, but I think she's liable regardless. Maybe I need to go back and read the OP.

Oh hell shut up you know what I mean. Pick another nit. And BTW it should always be the home owners ultimate responsibility to make sure permits are pulled.

 

[MaxThreshold]

At the very least charge her $500 per month to keep the fence on your property.

At least for 5 months, anyways.

Until the statute of limitations for filing a complaint with the city/town passes.

I filed the complaint with the city shortly after it was discovered.

 

[nirad3]

Is a 'lateral' like a 'main' or 'pipe'? Never heard that before.

You're SoL. Many people are stuck paying for ####ty work a crap contractor did. They are out of business. You got most of it covered.

If you sue her (likely she had no ####### clue what these clowns did) you'll have a neighbor enemy for ever. Not worth it.

We're there permits pulled for the fence?

The lateral is what connects the residence (or whatever building) to the main line.

What would looking up the permits do?

If she was required to get permits and didn't (ie no inspection or require my to locate underground lines and pipes) she's definitely liable. Maybe you still don't sue but if you wanted to it would improve your case.

Having it unpermitted would help his case, but I think she's liable regardless. Maybe I need to go back and read the OP.

Oh hell shut up you know what I mean. Pick another nit.And BTW it should always be the home owners ultimate responsibility to make sure permits are pulled.

I was agreeing with you there, chief.

Max - it sounds like you have a case. I wouldn't let it slide.

 

[mr roboto]

Is a 'lateral' like a 'main' or 'pipe'? Never heard that before.

You're SoL. Many people are stuck paying for ####ty work a crap contractor did. They are out of business. You got most of it covered.

If you sue her (likely she had no ####### clue what these clowns did) you'll have a neighbor enemy for ever. Not worth it.

We're there permits pulled for the fence?

The lateral is what connects the residence (or whatever building) to the main line.

What would looking up the permits do?

If she was required to get permits and didn't (ie no inspection or require my to locate underground lines and pipes) she's definitely liable. Maybe you still don't sue but if you wanted to it would improve your case.

Having it unpermitted would help his case, but I think she's liable regardless. Maybe I need to go back and read the OP.

Oh hell shut up you know what I mean. Pick another nit.And BTW it should always be the home owners ultimate responsibility to make sure permits are pulled.

I was agreeing with you there, chief.

Max - it sounds like you have a case. I wouldn't let it slide.

Sorry read your first response totally wrong. My bad.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Is a 'lateral' like a 'main' or 'pipe'? Never heard that before.

You're SoL. Many people are stuck paying for ####ty work a crap contractor did. They are out of business. You got most of it covered.

If you sue her (likely she had no ####### clue what these clowns did) you'll have a neighbor enemy for ever. Not worth it.

We're there permits pulled for the fence?

The lateral is what connects the residence (or whatever building) to the main line.

What would looking up the permits do?

If she was required to get permits and didn't (ie no inspection or require my to locate underground lines and pipes) she's definitely liable. Maybe you still don't sue but if you wanted to it would improve your case.

Having it unpermitted would help his case, but I think she's liable regardless. Maybe I need to go back and read the OP.

Oh hell shut up you know what I mean. Pick another nit.And BTW it should always be the home owners ultimate responsibility to make sure permits are pulled.

I was agreeing with you there, chief.

Max - it sounds like you have a case. I wouldn't let it slide.

Thanks, Nirad! I really appreciate the input and advice!

 

[NutterButter]

What's her stance on the ACA?

 

[MaxThreshold]

What's her stance on the ACA?

That's my next lawsuit.

 

[squidrope]

I'd have a pleasant chat with her, and insist that she do the following.

Reimburse you for the $2500- and the cost of the survey.

Move her fence off of your property. (this will be an issue when you sell)

None of this is your fault. You didn't put up the fence or hire the contractor that did. This shouldn't cost you a dime.

 

[belljr]

I take a copy of the surveyor report and tape it to her door.

Tell her she wants water to stop hitting her wall then pay up.

If not good luck

 

[gianmarco]

Who said fences make good neighbors?

 

[matuski]

Thanks Obama.

 

[stbugs]

I'd have a pleasant chat with her, and insist that she do the following.

Reimburse you for the $2500- and the cost of the survey.

Move her fence off of your property. (this will be an issue when you sell)

None of this is your fault. You didn't put up the fence or hire the contractor that did. This shouldn't cost you a dime.

That is what I was going to mention. I remember a person in my neighborhood having an issue when selling their home due to a fence being on their property. I don't know what the conclusion was, but I recall it being an issue.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

I would lay it all out with her and her boy in the nicest, most sincere way I could - while being clear that my insurance has already covered the majority of the problem that they caused. If they can't see their way to coming up with the $2500 deductible to please quickly finish their lemonade and I will see them in court.

 

[dozer]

9k to have a lateral put in? Holy Crapolie!

I just got an estimate for an entire 2k sq ft spec house for 6.2k. Including the lateral!

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Doing nothing just to 'keep the peace' absolutely isn't what you should do. That was thrown out the window already.

Their fence caused your damage, their fence is on your property, their fence may cause an issue if you ever do sell (which it sounds like you're planning to)

As others stated, you shouldn't be out a dime here. And I wouldn't agree to any monthly installments. $2500 + survey cost + fence off your property.

Pretty audacious to a) accuse me of making them cause damage and b) not even bothering to look at the damage she caused because her son insists the pipe is on their property (which we have proof now that it isn't).

 

[Ron Swanson]

Has your insurance discussed subrogating your claim yet? Might be easiest to ride their coat tails.

 

[rascal]

Tell her to pay you the 2500 or you will inform your insurance company and they will take her to court.

 

[TLEF316]

Has your insurance discussed subrogating your claim yet? Might be easiest to ride their coat tails.

This. Can't hurt to check. With the contractor out of business, it may be a long shot, but you may as well.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Has your insurance discussed subrogating your claim yet? Might be easiest to ride their coat tails.

Yeah, talked to him a couple times already. They are going to look it over but he thinks they can only go after the fence company (and not my neighbor) to prove negligence and since they are out of business it probably isn't cost effective.

So, I was going to ride their coat tails but after hearing that answer today I'll probably have to do it on my own.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Has your insurance discussed subrogating your claim yet? Might be easiest to ride their coat tails.

Yeah, talked to him a couple times already. They are going to look it over but he thinks they can only go after the fence company (and not my neighbor) to prove negligence and since they are out of business it probably isn't cost effective.

So, I was going to ride their coat tails but after hearing that answer today I'll probably have to do it on my own.

Then you are probably economically best to follow their lead or negotiate with the neighbor.

 

[SWC]

the fence company might have had insurance and it does not matter if the company is around or not in wisco you can sue the insurer right off the bat bromigo

 

[Pipes]

Seems like the survey was done about 10 years too late. She should've had the survey done back when they put up the fence.

 

[MaxThreshold]

9k to have a lateral put in? Holy Crapolie!

I just got an estimate for an entire 2k sq ft spec house for 6.2k. Including the lateral!

They had to dig all 40' by hand since the distance between the fence and my house is way to narrow.

 

[gianmarco]

Seems like the survey was done about 10 years too late. She should've had the survey down back when they put up the fence.

I'd listen to this username.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Seems like the survey was done about 10 years too late. She should've had the survey done back when they put up the fence.

Well, her son supposedly has a master in Civil Engineering and he did all of it himself which is why he's insisting the pipe is on his property. I haven't talked to them yet but he's clearly wrong.

But he never even knew a pipe was in the ground in the first place so he's only saying that to try and not pay up. I believe in WI the Statute of Limitations is 6 years from the date of reasonable discovery (or something like that), not necessarily the date the damage was done.

 

[MaxThreshold]

the fence company might have had insurance and it does not matter if the company is around or not in wisco you can sue the insurer right off the bat bromigo

WTH? Really? Now all I have to do is find out who the fence company was and then find out who their insurer was. That's going to be difficult since she's refusing to give me the name of the company.

 

[TLEF316]

the fence company might have had insurance and it does not matter if the company is around or not in wisco you can sue the insurer right off the bat bromigo

If they had a policy, it was almost certainly occurrence based.

I haven't insured contractors for a while, so I don't know exactly how claims will treat a situation like this. The damage to the pipe almost certainly occurred during the installation of the fence, but it wasn't discovered until years later. Not sure if the carrier (assuming they had a policy) will accept that the damage occurred while they had an active policy.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Seems like the survey was done about 10 years too late. She should've had the survey down back when they put up the fence.

I'd listen to this username.

That would make sense if I was hiring a lawyer but this would be small claims court which is about $100 I think.