FF Trends (1 Viewer)

[Maurile Tremblay]

From this week's roundtable:

The game of fantasy football is constantly evolving. Which trends that haven't yet been widely adopted would you like to see catch on with the mainstream FF community?

MAURILE TREMBLAY: The game has definitely evolved over the last decade or so. When I started playing, many if not most leagues were TD-only (and were not hosted online). You don't see too many of those anymore. Now not only do most leagues give points for yards, but many give points for receptions. Some start two QBs. Some are based on total points instead of head-to-head matchups, or some have more than one matchup per team each week. Some include individual defensive players. Keeper and dynasty leagues have become a bit more popular, though they are still in the minority. Same with auction leagues. And now you can even find some college fantasy football leagues.

I would say that the two trends I would like to see become more mainstream are holding auctions instead of drafts to initially allocate players, and having larger starting lineups including greater freedom at the flex positions. I've played in one league that allowed players to start a second QB or kicker at one flex spot (along with the option of starting an additional RB, WR or TE). That adds quite a bit of value to the QB position (since a second QB will typically outscore a third or fourth RB or WR), but avoids the pitfall in straight-up start-two QB leagues that teams will occasionally take a goose egg at the second QB spot due to byes or injures.

JEFF HASELEY: I would like to see more best ball leagues - i.e., leagues in which owners don't have to choose a starting lineup before the game, but the scores of the highest-scoring players are counted automatically. It eliminates some of the luck involved and focuses more on skill. With no need to choose lineups, your entire roster is open for point production. This makes drafting all the more important. Also, I am not a fan of playing in leagues where everyone has an All-Star team. If you're going to do a ten team league, then start two QBs or start three flex positions. I'd like to see more 14-team leagues starting two QBs, where any given week someone could be starting Ken Dorsey. To me, that's fun and more strategic.

JASON WOOD: I am personally a fan of removing as much of the random luck as possible. Nothing hurts worse than going 14-0 in your regular season only to finish out of the money because you have one off week in Week 15 and your opponent has his best week with nothing to lose. To that end, most of my longtime leagues are going to a total points format or, similar to the Survivor rules this year on the site, a W-L record where you get wins and losses each week based on your finish. Much fairer.

I also like the idea of a higher seed getting a bonus in playoff matchups, weighted in some way against average total points of the two opponents.

Finally, I see things like points per receptions, bonuses for long scoring plays, 100- yard game, 300-yard passing games, etc...steadily increasing as fantasy owners look to add a bit more excitement to their boxscore watching.

How do you see the hobby evolving over the next decade or so?

JEFF HASELEY: I see the hobby continuing to rise in popularity. Ten years ago TV stations didn't have a stat ticker at the bottom of the screen for players in the game we were watching, let alone all other games. Now, it's widely common to see stats scroll at the bottom of the screen for all of the games. DirecTV has a feature where you can access player stats for fantasy purposes while watching the game. The evolution of fantasy score watching has increased tremendously. Mobile phones have live stats and information. Heck, some of them offer the games live, if you pay for their data package. I think we will continue to see advancements in the coming years. I wouldn't be surprised to see some electronics or telecommunications mogul come up with a handheld device that feeds into a network that only displays football scores and fantasy stats or your choosing, based on your scoring format, etc. We can't bring our laptops everywhere. For all I know, there may already be such a device.

JASON WOOD: I think we'll continue to see derivations and offshoots as an entire generation of fantasy gamers looks to customize their own leagues after years of playing against each other and realizing what they love and hate about conventional setups. I also think the major sites will start offering more customization for that very same reason, but not at the expense of the simplified versions they offer for free, which are highly profitable, and appeal to the vast majority of fantasy gamers.

I'd like to open up the questions to the Shark Pool.Out of the many variations of relatively novel league structures being tried, which ones do you think should or will gain more popularity in the coming years?

 

[datonn]

One that I've heard about (but haven't tried) that I think could fit the bill will be leagues where winning and losing is based upon the accuracy of one's predictions. Weekly and/or end-of-year stats lines of players, W/L for NFL teams, etc. My weekly opponents pick MY line-up, then I have to submit my prediction for player stat lines for the game by a cut-off date...then I am assigned FPs based upon how close I came to hitting the mark. Closest owner to "0" each week wins.

Other than that, I guess I expect more IDP and more auctions...at least that's what I HOPE to see, because offense-only leagues and drafts just don't compare, IMHO.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Life evolves, so never say never, but I think right now fantasy has struck a pretty strong balance on a mass level of how its structured. For the average guy with the average team in the average league, I think the management and decision making week to week in season has reached a critical mass, thus I can never see IDP becoming dominant. I think people just don't have the attention span to dedicate to both sides of the ball.

What would I LIKE to see?

-that third round reversal in serpentine drafts(in a 10 team league for instance, drafting 1-10, 10-1, and in the third round instead of 1-10, 10-1 again to balance the pick value)

-auctioning off of draft SLOTS(as a balance and hedge against getting locked into an entire day of bidding, I think its hybrid that could work but I haven't gotten any of my league's to bite.

-scoring a bit more reflective of real football value(a point for a player on a winning team, a point for every third down conversion(double for a 4th down), minus 6 for any turnover turning into an immediate touchdown), a bonus point on any FG's made in a game where the average wind speed at game time was 25 mph+(or pick your number), etc. Stats like that. More to root for.

And I don't necessarily see any of the above gaining traction.

What WILL we see:

-as software catches up on all the sites and especially the free ones, more blind bidding. Doing this in 2 leagues this year and I LOVE it. Much better than waivers, free for all pickups or any other system. It invites stragegy during the week and is one more bit of competitive juice and another thing to look forward to outside of game day.

-a movement toward standardization, at least in scoring, if not roster size and requirements. We're already closer to it than when I first started this ten years ago, as 6 for all TDs and 1 for 10 rush/rec or 25 passing is kind of becoming industry standard. If you want to judge yourself with more people, in perhaps a more connected world, that sort of standardization will be beneficial. It will also help those of us who do lots of leagues keep some semblance of sense in doing loose tallying.

 

[awesomeness]

One that I've heard about (but haven't tried) that I think could fit the bill will be leagues where winning and losing is based upon the accuracy of one's predictions. Weekly and/or end-of-year stats lines of players, W/L for NFL teams, etc. My weekly opponents pick MY line-up, then I have to submit my prediction for player stat lines for the game by a cut-off date...then I am assigned FPs based upon how close I came to hitting the mark. Closest owner to "0" each week wins.

Other than that, I guess I expect more IDP and more auctions...at least that's what I HOPE to see, because offense-only leagues and drafts just don't compare, IMHO.

It astounds me that so many people here play in offense only leagues. The IDP forum only has 15% of the threads that the shark pool has, which is pretty pathetic. The work that Bramel, Borberly, Rozelle, and others do over there is nothing short of outstanding. They don't get enough love on these forums imo.

I would never join a league if it didn't involve IDP. In my main league Patrick Willis is a top 10 player (currently ranked 6th). Thats the way it should be. Defensive players should be very important, but still a slight edge given to the elite offensive players.

 

[jojoh07]

One that I've heard about (but haven't tried) that I think could fit the bill will be leagues where winning and losing is based upon the accuracy of one's predictions. Weekly and/or end-of-year stats lines of players, W/L for NFL teams, etc. My weekly opponents pick MY line-up, then I have to submit my prediction for player stat lines for the game by a cut-off date...then I am assigned FPs based upon how close I came to hitting the mark. Closest owner to "0" each week wins.

Other than that, I guess I expect more IDP and more auctions...at least that's what I HOPE to see, because offense-only leagues and drafts just don't compare, IMHO.

It astounds me that so many people here play in offense only leagues. The IDP forum only has 15% of the threads that the shark pool has, which is pretty pathetic. The work that Bramel, Borberly, Rozelle, and others do over there is nothing short of outstanding. They don't get enough love on these forums imo.

I would never join a league if it didn't involve IDP. In my main league Patrick Willis is a top 10 player (currently ranked 6th). Thats the way it should be. Defensive players should be very important, but still a slight edge given to the elite offensive players.

2nd year of IDP for me , never going back to offense only.

Oh and the IDP sections on these boards are by far the most informative , wish more ppl contributed to it.

 

[Das Boot]

A few things I enjoy in FF and prefer:

1. Choosing my lineup each week - no doubt it sucks when you pick wrong (Westbrook last week - d'oh!... Westbrook this week ) but it's another way to delineate skill in FF amongst coaches - plus it's just plain fun to agonize over lineup decisions. And it feels great when you choose correctly, and it leaves a mark when you leave a ton of points on the bench.

2. Head to head matchups - sure there's luck involved, lots of it, e.g. running into a team that gets their best production of the year out of Vince Jackson the week you play them. But again, it's that variability and unpredictability that makes it fun. This dovetails with point 1 about picking your lineup... so first you get to have fun setting a lineup, then have fun seeing who your opponent is running out against you, then following all the games on Sunday and watching the scores add up. My teams are generally near the top in the MFL power rankings, but sometimes I make the playoffs, sometimes I don't - purely due to the variability of H2H results. Sometimes your teams scores great and your opponent has a monster week. Sometimes you squeak by, sometimes you crush your opponent... each week is unique and interesting, and the results each week give you plenty to talk about with your friends in the league. I'd personally never want to give up the H2H format, even though I'd probably benefit quite a bit from just keeping track of total points.

3. Playoffs... I like FF playoffs to approximate the NFL... i.e. byes are ok for division winners but other than that, settle it in a H2H matchup, winner moves on, loser goes home. If you have the highest scoring team and you have an off week... that's life, your season is over, just like in the NFL - ask the Patriots last year.

 

[The_Head_Ape]

Multi sport fantasy.

Each owner has players from different major sports leagues on the "same" team.

For example,

NFL football + NBA basketball

NFL football + NCAA football

NFL football + NBA basketball + MLB baseball (Bo Jackson #1 pick?)

etc. etc.

Trading Adrian Peterson for, say, LeBron James would be interesting.

 

[notdarkyet]

My favorite part of FF is draft prep and drafting. But if you draft too well you are forced into tough weekly decisions. It sucks to draft a dominant team only to have your points riding on the bench. I would love to do a best ball type of system, which would greatly reduce the "luck" factor. It's one thing to have an opponent that gets career days out of his guys, but when you also would have beaten them with a single roster change, its brutal.

That said, I think there is a lot to be said about being a good "coach", selecting the right players to play at the right time. Right now I would say I am a far better GM than I am a coach. Drafting, FA pickups I will put my skills up against anyone in my league. Setting my lineup correctly on any given week, not so much.

 

[FUBAR]

auction + salary cap

IDP

more flex positions

strategy lineups w/IDP - if you start 5 DBs, your opponents WRs and QB lose 10% but RBs gain 10%; start 4 DL and get the opposite effect

 

[Futeki]

strategy lineups w/IDP - if you start 5 DBs, your opponents WRs and QB lose 10% but RBs gain 10%; start 4 DL and get the opposite effect

That is something I had pondered. Defensive formations that give both + and - % effects on the opposing team by position. It would even be doable without IDP. The problem is striking a balance. The percentages would need to vary depending on starting lineups.

 

[ffinmyblood]

Things I would like to see start happening more.....

1. People go to the draft with NOTHING to help them. No laptop, no magazine, no cheatsheets, no nothing. Draft strictly off of knowledge. Too many times I have had players stolen out from underneath me because someone in the league that knows little about that player, sees his name high on a cheat sheet etc. This will truly let the cream rise to the top.

2. Bigger leagues.....I play in a 10 teamer right now, and the league simply isn't big enough. All the teams have too many good players. This kind of goes back to my 1st point. In bigger leagues, you HAVE to know what you are doing, because the talent isn't nearly as plentiful. 12 teamers are ok, 14 teamers even better and 16 teamers....now were talking.

3. Scoring to go back to more closely resemble the NFL. I will say this though...I play in a league right now with 6 for all TD's and 1/10. Though I do see the value of it on some levels, I still don't like seeing games that are 90-78. Those resemble NBA scores, not NFL scores. You don't get points for yardage in the NFL why should you in Fantasy Football?? 6 for all TD's and bonus points for thresholds of 100(incremental from there) and 300(incremental from there) is good enough. Those games will generally end in the 30's. THAT more closely resembles an NFL game.

4. More leagues go back to playing their Fantasy Bowl in week 17. If there are regular season NFL games played in a given week, there should also be Fantasy games played that week. Have studs that sit out or don't play much?? DRAFT BETTER DEPTH!!!. See point #1.

5. Lineup requirements go back to something more resembling an NFL lineup. Do you see two QB's on the field in an NFL game?? How about 3 RB's?? Lineup requirements should be something along these lines.... 1 QB, 2 RB's 2 WR's 1 TE, 1 K....or....1 QB, 1 RB, 3 WR's, 1TE, 1K....or.... 1 QB, 1 RB's, 2 WR's, 2 TE's, 1K.......That's IT.

 

[Max Power]

This was my first season playing best ball, auction, and victory points.

I have to say I really liked the auction format. I would really like to get my main redraft league to move to this format, but the problem is that we are a worldwide group (mostly former miltary friends). The auction I was in this year was an in-person auction where everything went smoothly. Every year my main league has some small draft glitch with computer systems. Losing an owner for a couple mins during a standard draft might not hurt that owner too much as long as his pre-draft list is updated. I'm just not sure how it would work if we lost someone in the middle of an on-line auction. Also does anyone have a site they recommend for auctions?

Best Ball format is fun, but it does take a bit of the enjoyment out of setting a sunday line-up or picking up a one-week sleeper to play. And then a guy like Matt Cassell goes off for a ton of points when you know there was no way that owner would raelly have started him that week.

Victory points is something I hope more leagues start going to. I have heard many different examples, the best format I have played in so far is a head-to-head matchup, winners get 2 VPs. Top 4 scoring teams get 2 VPs, middle 4 will get 1 VP, lowest 4 get none. This system seems to go over well with the league.

Also to comment on the "Scoring Bonuses". I started playing FF in a league that has bonuses: 5pts for 100yd rushing, 4pts 100yd receiving, 3pts 300yd passing, and I really enjoy this. The games are higher scoring and really rewards the better football players in the NFL and not just the guys who get GL carries.

Next season I am hoping to find and join a 16-20 team league. I like the 12 team format, but want to try something more challenging.

 

[brutha]

Also, I am not a fan of playing in leagues where everyone has an All-Star team. If you're going to do a ten team league, then start two QBs or start three flex positions.

oh brother - in a 10 team league, everyone does not have an "all star team" and I'm not a fan of large leagues where you're deciding who to start between a backup RB or WR who are lucky to get a touch or 2 per game. also can't stand the idea of more than 1 QB starting, but to each their ownI know people on the site'd rather not to hear this, but I get the impression that the average football fan is becoming less interested in FF due to the novelty of it wearing off and so playing in less leagues, becoming more casual about it, even quitting outright. The playing in 5 leagues, dynasty etc etc people are becoming mostly the hard-core FF geeks. Not saying that's good or bad, just my impression.

 

[Grid71]

There is still a big difference between the casual main stream fantasy player and the hard core geek.

How many on this forum could stomach playing in an 8-10 team league starting 1 QB, 1 RB, 1 WR, 1RB/WR Flex, 1 TE, K & D? Yet casual players enjoy it because they have a better chance to field a strong team. They just enjoy being cometitive without much effort.

I see the hard core FF geeks developing more intricate and deeper leagues. We need more of a challenge throwing in IDP, deeper roster sizes and possibly more flex options.

Auction vs Draft - Auctions will definitely gain more popularity even with main stream players. Who can argue with the logic that everyone has an equal opportunity to get LT? If you want a player bad enough, then you can have him. I haven't done one myself, but I can only imagine how much fun it is when someone overpays for a player leaving better value for you later.

Best Ball Leagues - These are great adder leagues for people who like to play in 30 leagues because it is much easier to manage. You don't have to spend as much time on them and they are especially nice for people who go to the games and can't wait for game time decisions to be announced. That said, I wouldn't want my main league to go this route because it takes away the fun of setting a lineup. Leaving points on the bench and agonizing over who to play this week is a must in the future of FF.

What I'd like to see...A new sport develop called the "PFFL" Professional Fantasy Football League. A truely structured league of FF players with a commish. We already see some leagues between different sites squaring off. This should be developed and marketed in a way where it is published for the main streamers. Every respectable FF mag will have the PFFL stats and analysis printed within. These PFFLers would play in several leagues against each other with different formats. Dynasty, HTH, Total Points, IDP, etc. Wins in each realm will count for a certain % of points scored each week. Different members of each team could run each sub league (play their nitch so to speak) but total control of the teams would be in the hands of the owner. I could go on, but I've rambled too much already.

 

[puckalicious]

A few things I enjoy in FF and prefer:1. Choosing my lineup each week - no doubt it sucks when you pick wrong (Westbrook last week - d'oh!... Westbrook this week :( ) but it's another way to delineate skill in FF amongst coaches - plus it's just plain fun to agonize over lineup decisions. And it feels great when you choose correctly, and it leaves a mark when you leave a ton of points on the bench.2. Head to head matchups - sure there's luck involved, lots of it, e.g. running into a team that gets their best production of the year out of Vince Jackson the week you play them. But again, it's that variability and unpredictability that makes it fun. This dovetails with point 1 about picking your lineup... so first you get to have fun setting a lineup, then have fun seeing who your opponent is running out against you, then following all the games on Sunday and watching the scores add up. My teams are generally near the top in the MFL power rankings, but sometimes I make the playoffs, sometimes I don't - purely due to the variability of H2H results. Sometimes your teams scores great and your opponent has a monster week. Sometimes you squeak by, sometimes you crush your opponent... each week is unique and interesting, and the results each week give you plenty to talk about with your friends in the league. I'd personally never want to give up the H2H format, even though I'd probably benefit quite a bit from just keeping track of total points.3. Playoffs... I like FF playoffs to approximate the NFL... i.e. byes are ok for division winners but other than that, settle it in a H2H matchup, winner moves on, loser goes home. If you have the highest scoring team and you have an off week... that's life, your season is over, just like in the NFL - ask the Patriots last year.

In my experience over the last 8 years, the points above have only been a benefit to subpar owners/teams. These things only take away from the Shark who spends 6 months preparing for the draft and doing very well, only to see a stacked team get miss the playoffs or losing in the first round of the playoffs due to a luck. It's great if you need luck to win, but really sucks for the Sharks that deserve to win. My interest in FF has waned significantly over the last 2 years due to this.I'm still trying to convince my money league to switch to best ball, all-play format.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

One that I've heard about (but haven't tried) that I think could fit the bill will be leagues where winning and losing is based upon the accuracy of one's predictions. Weekly and/or end-of-year stats lines of players, W/L for NFL teams, etc. My weekly opponents pick MY line-up, then I have to submit my prediction for player stat lines for the game by a cut-off date...then I am assigned FPs based upon how close I came to hitting the mark. Closest owner to "0" each week wins.

Other than that, I guess I expect more IDP and more auctions...at least that's what I HOPE to see, because offense-only leagues and drafts just don't compare, IMHO.

It astounds me that so many people here play in offense only leagues. The IDP forum only has 15% of the threads that the shark pool has, which is pretty pathetic. The work that Bramel, Borberly, Rozelle, and others do over there is nothing short of outstanding. They don't get enough love on these forums imo.

I would never join a league if it didn't involve IDP. In my main league Patrick Willis is a top 10 player (currently ranked 6th). Thats the way it should be. Defensive players should be very important, but still a slight edge given to the elite offensive players.

2nd year of IDP for me , never going back to offense only.

Oh and the IDP sections on these boards are by far the most informative , wish more ppl contributed to it.

Despite your wishes, the masses of FF players don't want to be bothered. I think the number lies between 10 and 15% for participation in IDP of ANY kind.

 

[awesomeness]

One that I've heard about (but haven't tried) that I think could fit the bill will be leagues where winning and losing is based upon the accuracy of one's predictions. Weekly and/or end-of-year stats lines of players, W/L for NFL teams, etc. My weekly opponents pick MY line-up, then I have to submit my prediction for player stat lines for the game by a cut-off date...then I am assigned FPs based upon how close I came to hitting the mark. Closest owner to "0" each week wins.

Other than that, I guess I expect more IDP and more auctions...at least that's what I HOPE to see, because offense-only leagues and drafts just don't compare, IMHO.

It astounds me that so many people here play in offense only leagues. The IDP forum only has 15% of the threads that the shark pool has, which is pretty pathetic. The work that Bramel, Borberly, Rozelle, and others do over there is nothing short of outstanding. They don't get enough love on these forums imo.

I would never join a league if it didn't involve IDP. In my main league Patrick Willis is a top 10 player (currently ranked 6th). Thats the way it should be. Defensive players should be very important, but still a slight edge given to the elite offensive players.

2nd year of IDP for me , never going back to offense only.

Oh and the IDP sections on these boards are by far the most informative , wish more ppl contributed to it.

Despite your wishes, the masses of FF players don't want to be bothered. I think the number lies between 10 and 15% for participation in IDP of ANY kind.

I just think thats sad. They are missing out on half of the fun. I can understand that only 10-15% of the 'masses' of FF players actually want to play IDP, what i don't understand is why only 10-20% of the 'sharks' on these forums actually play IDP

 

[Das Boot]

A few things I enjoy in FF and prefer:1. Choosing my lineup each week - no doubt it sucks when you pick wrong (Westbrook last week - d'oh!... Westbrook this week ) but it's another way to delineate skill in FF amongst coaches - plus it's just plain fun to agonize over lineup decisions. And it feels great when you choose correctly, and it leaves a mark when you leave a ton of points on the bench.2. Head to head matchups - sure there's luck involved, lots of it, e.g. running into a team that gets their best production of the year out of Vince Jackson the week you play them. But again, it's that variability and unpredictability that makes it fun. This dovetails with point 1 about picking your lineup... so first you get to have fun setting a lineup, then have fun seeing who your opponent is running out against you, then following all the games on Sunday and watching the scores add up. My teams are generally near the top in the MFL power rankings, but sometimes I make the playoffs, sometimes I don't - purely due to the variability of H2H results. Sometimes your teams scores great and your opponent has a monster week. Sometimes you squeak by, sometimes you crush your opponent... each week is unique and interesting, and the results each week give you plenty to talk about with your friends in the league. I'd personally never want to give up the H2H format, even though I'd probably benefit quite a bit from just keeping track of total points.3. Playoffs... I like FF playoffs to approximate the NFL... i.e. byes are ok for division winners but other than that, settle it in a H2H matchup, winner moves on, loser goes home. If you have the highest scoring team and you have an off week... that's life, your season is over, just like in the NFL - ask the Patriots last year.

In my experience over the last 8 years, the points above have only been a benefit to subpar owners/teams. These things only take away from the Shark who spends 6 months preparing for the draft and doing very well, only to see a stacked team get miss the playoffs or losing in the first round of the playoffs due to a luck. It's great if you need luck to win, but really sucks for the Sharks that deserve to win. My interest in FF has waned significantly over the last 2 years due to this.I'm still trying to convince my money league to switch to best ball, all-play format.

My redraft teams are usually strong, but as I said, some years I make the playoffs, some years not - when I look back on the years I didn't, it's usually because I lost a few close games where my teams scored great but I just got outscored, or on my off weeks when scoring was down I got beat by a team that just scored a little more that week.So even though it would benefit me if my leagues were best ball and/or not H2H - I know for a fact I'd enjoy that less - no lineup decisions, no luck of the draw in scheduling (some years you catch good teams when their best players have a bye week, other years it seems like you catch everyone when they have their studs going against you).So you misunderstood if you think I said I need luck to win... what I meant was the luck and randomness factor is, to me, what make each week unique and fun.If you really want to see which team is best, you don't play any kind of schedule, you purely go on points scored by the players drafted, and you go best ball format. But that doesn't sound like much fun to me, that's an antiseptic hands off, check the standings once a week kind of league.Ironically, I do really enjoy the FBG $35k contest, which is a best ball league and also a total points contest once it gets down to the final 250, which my team is still alive in. But it's fun because it's a contest, it wouldn't be fun if it was a league with my friends - there wouldn't be much to talk about each week other than how many points did you score.Bottom line - without the variability of luck and randomness that choosing lineups and playing a H2H schedule provides, FF is just a statistical exercise. I don't argue in the least that removing luck will help in finding the best coach, but I do think it reduces fun.And I fully respect all other opinions... for me it's fun to have some randomness and luck play a part each week... others I'm sure hate that aspect of it. The most important thing by far is to have fun.

 

[puckalicious]

A few things I enjoy in FF and prefer:

1. Choosing my lineup each week - no doubt it sucks when you pick wrong (Westbrook last week - d'oh!... Westbrook this week ) but it's another way to delineate skill in FF amongst coaches - plus it's just plain fun to agonize over lineup decisions. And it feels great when you choose correctly, and it leaves a mark when you leave a ton of points on the bench.

2. Head to head matchups - sure there's luck involved, lots of it, e.g. running into a team that gets their best production of the year out of Vince Jackson the week you play them. But again, it's that variability and unpredictability that makes it fun. This dovetails with point 1 about picking your lineup... so first you get to have fun setting a lineup, then have fun seeing who your opponent is running out against you, then following all the games on Sunday and watching the scores add up. My teams are generally near the top in the MFL power rankings, but sometimes I make the playoffs, sometimes I don't - purely due to the variability of H2H results. Sometimes your teams scores great and your opponent has a monster week. Sometimes you squeak by, sometimes you crush your opponent... each week is unique and interesting, and the results each week give you plenty to talk about with your friends in the league. I'd personally never want to give up the H2H format, even though I'd probably benefit quite a bit from just keeping track of total points.

3. Playoffs... I like FF playoffs to approximate the NFL... i.e. byes are ok for division winners but other than that, settle it in a H2H matchup, winner moves on, loser goes home. If you have the highest scoring team and you have an off week... that's life, your season is over, just like in the NFL - ask the Patriots last year.

In my experience over the last 8 years, the points above have only been a benefit to subpar owners/teams. These things only take away from the Shark who spends 6 months preparing for the draft and doing very well, only to see a stacked team get miss the playoffs or losing in the first round of the playoffs due to a luck. It's great if you need luck to win, but really sucks for the Sharks that deserve to win. My interest in FF has waned significantly over the last 2 years due to this.

I'm still trying to convince my money league to switch to best ball, all-play format.

My redraft teams are usually strong, but as I said, some years I make the playoffs, some years not - when I look back on the years I didn't, it's usually because I lost a few close games where my teams scored great but I just got outscored, or on my off weeks when scoring was down I got beat by a team that just scored a little more that week.So even though it would benefit me if my leagues were best ball and/or not H2H - I know for a fact I'd enjoy that less - no lineup decisions, no luck of the draw in scheduling (some years you catch good teams when their best players have a bye week, other years it seems like you catch everyone when they have their studs going against you).

So you misunderstood if you think I said I need luck to win... what I meant was the luck and randomness factor is, to me, what make each week unique and fun.

If you really want to see which team is best, you don't play any kind of schedule, you purely go on points scored by the players drafted, and you go best ball format. But that doesn't sound like much fun to me, that's an antiseptic hands off, check the standings once a week kind of league.

Ironically, I do really enjoy the FBG $35k contest, which is a best ball league and also a total points contest once it gets down to the final 250, which my team is still alive in. But it's fun because it's a contest, it wouldn't be fun if it was a league with my friends - there wouldn't be much to talk about each week other than how many points did you score.

Bottom line - without the variability of luck and randomness that choosing lineups and playing a H2H schedule provides, FF is just a statistical exercise. I don't argue in the least that removing luck will help in finding the best coach, but I do think it reduces fun.

And I fully respect all other opinions... for me it's fun to have some randomness and luck play a part each week... others I'm sure hate that aspect of it. The most important thing by far is to have fun.

Agree 100%. I just don't have fun anymore losing to teams that have a crappy draft that they prepared for the night before with a 3 month old magazine. And it's not because they picked better players that end up with huge seasons... it's the fact that they got lucky while I had to pick only 2 of my 3 top-10 RB's and the one I didn't start blows up on the bench.I would still obsess every week about who's hot or a good matchup play. There would still be an active waiver wire, you just don't have to worry about a starting lineup. I totally agree that if your roster was locked after the draft it would be very boring and merely a statistical excercise, I would not want to do that.

 

[Die]

I'm not a fan of ranking teams by total points, or using total points as a tiebreaker. That's sterile and not fun. There should be an element of risk involved to make things interesting. I'd like to see total points used less, if not eliminated.

 

[Monty Burns]

I used to be hardcore, playing in 2 salary cap/contract cap/auction bidding 16 team dynasty leagues, but it only takes one or two bozo's to ruin that type of league, so I back peddled to more of the lower maintenance, fun type leagues. I started a fairly simple best ball dynasty league to replace these complex leagues 2 years ago, and will never do another overly complex new league, as they only work well if EVERYONE is hardcore, or a non best ball league as I've found out I much prefer just being a GM and not so much a coach, due the GTD's etc. I think that best ball will slowly expand as a "supplemental" league for a lot of guys and simplified leagues for the non hardcore will continue at attract the more casual football and fantasy football fan down the road.

 

[Das Boot]

I used to be hardcore, playing in 2 salary cap/contract cap/auction bidding 16 team dynasty leagues, but it only takes one or two bozo's to ruin that type of league, so I back peddled to more of the lower maintenance, fun type leagues. I started a fairly simple best ball dynasty league to replace these complex leagues 2 years ago, and will never do another overly complex new league, as they only work well if EVERYONE is hardcore, or a non best ball league as I've found out I much prefer just being a GM and not so much a coach, due the GTD's etc. I think that best ball will slowly expand as a "supplemental" league for a lot of guys and simplified leagues for the non hardcore will continue at attract the more casual football and fantasy football fan down the road.

You know, you may well be right that "simpler" format leagues that take less time to participate in will become more popular.Everyone feels the pinch of not having enough time.

 

[David Yudkin]

I was in a league a couple of years ago that had an interesting wrinkle. The first 14 weeks were head-to-head with your usual wins and losses. Three division winners and best remaining team based on record made the playoffs.

But the playoffs were different in that each playoff team combined their weekly average score in the regular season with their two playoff weeks and the point leader of those three was declared the winner. Given that the average score ranged by like 20 points, the top score team started with that as an advantage. Those points actually made a difference in the final outcome.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

From this week's roundtable:

JASON WOOD: I am personally a fan of removing as much of the random luck as possible. Nothing hurts worse than going 14-0 in your regular season only to finish out of the money because you have one off week in Week 15 and your opponent has his best week with nothing to lose. To that end, most of my longtime leagues are going to a total points format or, similar to the Survivor rules this year on the site, a W-L record where you get wins and losses each week based on your finish. Much fairer.

This is so silly. You can't deal with "random luck" in games? Lol.

 

[David Yudkin]

From this week's roundtable:

JASON WOOD: I am personally a fan of removing as much of the random luck as possible. Nothing hurts worse than going 14-0 in your regular season only to finish out of the money because you have one off week in Week 15 and your opponent has his best week with nothing to lose. To that end, most of my longtime leagues are going to a total points format or, similar to the Survivor rules this year on the site, a W-L record where you get wins and losses each week based on your finish. Much fairer.

This is so silly. You can't deal with "random luck" in games? Lol.

Not there anyone particularly cares about one of my teams, but several years ago I had a team for the ages in an ESPN league made up of established fantasy football owners. IIRC, it was 2002.Here was my roster in a 12-team league with their yearend rankings:QB: Vick (3), TGreen (8)RB: Holmes (1), Portis (4), McAllister (6), Henry (8), Bennett (17), ASmith (23)WR: Owens (2), Ward (3), Driver (10), Gardner (17), Ocho Cinco (18)TE: Gonzalez (2)PK: Feely (1)DEF: TB (1)Before people suggest I was playing with guppies, remember that Vick, Portis, Deuce, Henry, Bennett, Driver, CJohnson, and Gardner were almost complete nobodies and all had breakout years that season, so I basically hit on all my shots in the dark.My team scored IN BUNCHES each and every week. I was never lower than third in weekly scoring and I believe I hit 100 points scored every week (traditional scoring). I ended up leading the league in scoring by over 400 points.That was the good news. The bad news was that in every week I was not #1 in scoring, I didn't win. I ended up 6-6-2. I BARELY made the playoffs as a wildcard and only made it in because of a muffed punt with 2 minutes to go on MNF in the last week of the regular season that let me get a couple extra garbage time points.I ended up ranked in the Top 20 teams in all ESPN leagues (out of like 250,000 teams) . . . and was the only team with more than 2 losses.I ended up winning the league, but had I missed the playoffs I would have had to hurt someone. I've since played in many leagues where you play every team each week. It makes for some wild MNF games, as on many occasions a team can jump over quite a few teams with a big performance from someone. It makes it interesting compared to "regular leagues," but I do think that it's not for everyone.

 

[BobbyLayne]

A few things I enjoy in FF and prefer:

1. Choosing my lineup each week - no doubt it sucks when you pick wrong (Westbrook last week - d'oh!... Westbrook this week ) but it's another way to delineate skill in FF amongst coaches - plus it's just plain fun to agonize over lineup decisions. And it feels great when you choose correctly, and it leaves a mark when you leave a ton of points on the bench.

2. Head to head matchups - sure there's luck involved, lots of it, e.g. running into a team that gets their best production of the year out of Vince Jackson the week you play them. But again, it's that variability and unpredictability that makes it fun. This dovetails with point 1 about picking your lineup... so first you get to have fun setting a lineup, then have fun seeing who your opponent is running out against you, then following all the games on Sunday and watching the scores add up. My teams are generally near the top in the MFL power rankings, but sometimes I make the playoffs, sometimes I don't - purely due to the variability of H2H results. Sometimes your teams scores great and your opponent has a monster week. Sometimes you squeak by, sometimes you crush your opponent... each week is unique and interesting, and the results each week give you plenty to talk about with your friends in the league. I'd personally never want to give up the H2H format, even though I'd probably benefit quite a bit from just keeping track of total points.

3. Playoffs... I like FF playoffs to approximate the NFL... i.e. byes are ok for division winners but other than that, settle it in a H2H matchup, winner moves on, loser goes home. If you have the highest scoring team and you have an off week... that's life, your season is over, just like in the NFL - ask the Patriots last year.

In my experience over the last 8 years, the points above have only been a benefit to subpar owners/teams. These things only take away from the Shark who spends 6 months preparing for the draft and doing very well, only to see a stacked team get miss the playoffs or losing in the first round of the playoffs due to a luck. It's great if you need luck to win, but really sucks for the Sharks that deserve to win. My interest in FF has waned significantly over the last 2 years due to this.

I'm still trying to convince my money league to switch to best ball, all-play format.

My redraft teams are usually strong, but as I said, some years I make the playoffs, some years not - when I look back on the years I didn't, it's usually because I lost a few close games where my teams scored great but I just got outscored, or on my off weeks when scoring was down I got beat by a team that just scored a little more that week.So even though it would benefit me if my leagues were best ball and/or not H2H - I know for a fact I'd enjoy that less - no lineup decisions, no luck of the draw in scheduling (some years you catch good teams when their best players have a bye week, other years it seems like you catch everyone when they have their studs going against you).

So you misunderstood if you think I said I need luck to win... what I meant was the luck and randomness factor is, to me, what make each week unique and fun.

If you really want to see which team is best, you don't play any kind of schedule, you purely go on points scored by the players drafted, and you go best ball format. But that doesn't sound like much fun to me, that's an antiseptic hands off, check the standings once a week kind of league.

Ironically, I do really enjoy the FBG $35k contest, which is a best ball league and also a total points contest once it gets down to the final 250, which my team is still alive in. But it's fun because it's a contest, it wouldn't be fun if it was a league with my friends - there wouldn't be much to talk about each week other than how many points did you score.

Bottom line - without the variability of luck and randomness that choosing lineups and playing a H2H schedule provides, FF is just a statistical exercise. I don't argue in the least that removing luck will help in finding the best coach, but I do think it reduces fun.

And I fully respect all other opinions... for me it's fun to have some randomness and luck play a part each week... others I'm sure hate that aspect of it. The most important thing by far is to have fun.

Agree 100%. I just don't have fun anymore losing to teams that have a crappy draft that they prepared for the night before with a 3 month old magazine. And it's not because they picked better players that end up with huge seasons... it's the fact that they got lucky while I had to pick only 2 of my 3 top-10 RB's and the one I didn't start blows up on the bench.I would still obsess every week about who's hot or a good matchup play. There would still be an active waiver wire, you just don't have to worry about a starting lineup. I totally agree that if your roster was locked after the draft it would be very boring and merely a statistical excercise, I would not want to do that.

Seems like for a lot of serious FFers, the law of diminishing returns is catching up. I've played in around 26 money leagues in the last 8 years, and during that time wone 8 league championships with 2 SB losses. I enjoy the hobby, I'm a fairly knowledgable owner, but it's never going to be a super high priority for me 24/7/365. It's merely a pleasant diversion.

I like the randomness and luck factor. If I wanted to certainty of outcome I'd take up bowling.

Played IDP last 2 years, doubt I will do it again. It's interesting but I find it mimics the NFL far less than the offensive players (e.g., lot of IDP studs are lonely stars on bad teams, or DBs that get thrown at a lot, etc). Tried Dynasty and Keeper leagues for about 4 years, but find redraft is better suited to my interest level. Everyone raves about auction, but I'm content with serpentine redraft. I'm not really looking to increase my involvement; I peaked around 6 leagues back in 2005, down to 2 this year, and that seems about right.

Come here and a couple other sites daily August - December. After that RL gets in the way.

Different strokes...

 

[awesomeness]

Seems like for a lot of serious FFers, the law of diminishing returns is catching up.

I've played in around 26 money leagues in the last 8 years, and during that time wone 8 league championships with 2 SB losses. I enjoy the hobby, I'm a fairly knowledgable owner, but it's never going to be a super high priority for me 24/7/365. It's merely a pleasant diversion.

I like the randomness and luck factor. If I wanted to certainty of outcome I'd take up bowling.

Played IDP last 2 years, doubt I will do it again. It's interesting but I find it mimics the NFL far less than the offensive players (e.g., lot of IDP studs are lonely stars on bad teams, or DBs that get thrown at a lot, etc). Tried Dynasty and Keeper leagues for about 4 years, but find redraft is better suited to my interest level. Everyone raves about auction, but I'm content with serpentine redraft. I'm not really looking to increase my involvement; I peaked around 6 leagues back in 2005, down to 2 this year, and that seems about right.

Come here and a couple other sites daily August - December. After that RL gets in the way.

Different strokes...

I've got to disagree with you there.Only 3 of the top 20 LBs are on teams that are not in a playoff race, as opposed to 6 of the top 20 RBs are on teams that are not in a playoff race.

The top 6 CBs in FF are all pro bowl caliber CBs. The top DB who you would consider a crappy CB who gets thrown at a lot is Brandon McDonald, who is ranked 21st overall for DBs.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Seems like for a lot of serious FFers, the law of diminishing returns is catching up.

I've played in around 26 money leagues in the last 8 years, and during that time wone 8 league championships with 2 SB losses. I enjoy the hobby, I'm a fairly knowledgable owner, but it's never going to be a super high priority for me 24/7/365. It's merely a pleasant diversion.

I like the randomness and luck factor. If I wanted to certainty of outcome I'd take up bowling.

Played IDP last 2 years, doubt I will do it again. It's interesting but I find it mimics the NFL far less than the offensive players (e.g., lot of IDP studs are lonely stars on bad teams, or DBs that get thrown at a lot, etc). Tried Dynasty and Keeper leagues for about 4 years, but find redraft is better suited to my interest level. Everyone raves about auction, but I'm content with serpentine redraft. I'm not really looking to increase my involvement; I peaked around 6 leagues back in 2005, down to 2 this year, and that seems about right.

Come here and a couple other sites daily August - December. After that RL gets in the way.

Different strokes...

I've got to disagree with you there.Only 3 of the top 20 LBs are on teams that are not in a playoff race, as opposed to 6 of the top 20 RBs are on teams that are not in a playoff race.

The top 6 CBs in FF are all pro bowl caliber CBs. The top DB who you would consider a crappy CB who gets thrown at a lot is Brandon McDonald, who is ranked 21st overall for DBs.

Top 2 LBs in our format are the 49ers Willis and Kirk Morrison of the Raiders; I have no idea what your latter point is, there are a ton of poor coverage guys in the top 25 DBs for IDP. But whatever...it's arguing the number of angels on the head of a pin...glad you enjoy it, carry on wayward son.

 

[awesomeness]

Seems like for a lot of serious FFers, the law of diminishing returns is catching up.

I've played in around 26 money leagues in the last 8 years, and during that time wone 8 league championships with 2 SB losses. I enjoy the hobby, I'm a fairly knowledgable owner, but it's never going to be a super high priority for me 24/7/365. It's merely a pleasant diversion.

I like the randomness and luck factor. If I wanted to certainty of outcome I'd take up bowling.

Played IDP last 2 years, doubt I will do it again. It's interesting but I find it mimics the NFL far less than the offensive players (e.g., lot of IDP studs are lonely stars on bad teams, or DBs that get thrown at a lot, etc). Tried Dynasty and Keeper leagues for about 4 years, but find redraft is better suited to my interest level. Everyone raves about auction, but I'm content with serpentine redraft. I'm not really looking to increase my involvement; I peaked around 6 leagues back in 2005, down to 2 this year, and that seems about right.

Come here and a couple other sites daily August - December. After that RL gets in the way.

Different strokes...

I've got to disagree with you there.Only 3 of the top 20 LBs are on teams that are not in a playoff race, as opposed to 6 of the top 20 RBs are on teams that are not in a playoff race.

The top 6 CBs in FF are all pro bowl caliber CBs. The top DB who you would consider a crappy CB who gets thrown at a lot is Brandon McDonald, who is ranked 21st overall for DBs.

Top 2 LBs in our format are the 49ers Willis and Kirk Morrison of the Raiders; I have no idea what your latter point is, there are a ton of poor coverage guys in the top 25 DBs for IDP. But whatever...it's arguing the number of angels on the head of a pin...glad you enjoy it, carry on wayward son.

Doesn't matter what team Patrick Willis or Kirk Morrison are on, they are gonna be a top 10 LB. To say that "a lot of IDP studs are lonely stars on bad teams" is just false. Here's a list of players who are top 20 LBs that fit that statement: Patrick Willis, Kirk Morrison, D'Qwell Jackson. Here's a list of players who are top 20 LBs who dont: Jon Beason, Barret Ruud, Johnathon Vilma, Bradie James, Ray Lewis, Jerod Mayo, London Fletcher, Eric Barton, Gary Brackett, James Farrior, Channing Crowder, James Harrison, Lane Briggs, DeMarcus Ware, Karlos Dansby, Chad Greenway, LeMar Woodley. PWillis, KMorrison, and DJackson are the only top 20 LBs on a team whose defense is ranked 20th or worse.

Top 25 DB: Gibril Wilson, Yeremiah Bell, Eric Weddle, Oshie Atogwe, Quiten Mikell, Kevin Payne, Erik Coleman, Troy Palamalu, Chris Hope, Antoine Bethea, Michael Griffin, Brain Dawkins, Quentin Jammer, Chris Gamble, Antonie Winfield, Charles Tillman, DeAngelo Hall, Cortland Finnegan, Cedric Griffin, Charles Woodson. How many of those players are poor coverage guys?

 

[TC]

... but I get the impression that the average football fan is becoming less interested in FF due to the novelty of it wearing off and so playing in less leagues, becoming more casual about it, even quitting outright. The playing in leagues where people are mostly the hard-core FF geeks. Not saying that's good or bad, just my impression.

My personal dealings echo the above. Fewer new members seem to be joining our hobby and remaining active the following season. In short, the hobby is very strong. Yet, it has peeked.

 

[Grond]

-auctioning off of draft SLOTS(as a balance and hedge against getting locked into an entire day of bidding, I think its hybrid that could work but I haven't gotten any of my league's to bite.

I did something similar three years ago, but instead of auctioning draft slots we drafted draft picks--there was actually three drafts: the one for the draft position and then the player draft in the NFC, and one for the player draft in the AFC. The balancer was that players were divided by conference, and drafted by conference, filling a single team. You couldn't have more or less than one pick in each round, for each conference draft. The draft pick draft ended up being something like:1.01 - AFC 1.011.02 - AFC 1.021.03 - NFC 1.011.04 - AFC 1.031.05 - AFC 1.041.06 - NFC 1.021.07 - AFC 1.051.08 - AFC 1.061.09 - AFC 2.011.10 - NFC 1.032.01 - NFC 2.01etc.It made for a very unique draft. The people who strategized did much better than those who picked best available picks, especially since the AFC had much better caliber players at the top that year. Strategies were interesting. People who wanted paired picks grabbed early even number round picks quickly and ignored odd number rounds. Some people ignored NFC picks as long as possible--I think the NFC 1.08 pick (ten team league) went in the 5th round of the draft pick draft.

 

[bentley]

One that I've heard about (but haven't tried) that I think could fit the bill will be leagues where winning and losing is based upon the accuracy of one's predictions. Weekly and/or end-of-year stats lines of players, W/L for NFL teams, etc. My weekly opponents pick MY line-up, then I have to submit my prediction for player stat lines for the game by a cut-off date...then I am assigned FPs based upon how close I came to hitting the mark. Closest owner to "0" each week wins.

Other than that, I guess I expect more IDP and more auctions...at least that's what I HOPE to see, because offense-only leagues and drafts just don't compare, IMHO.

It astounds me that so many people here play in offense only leagues. The IDP forum only has 15% of the threads that the shark pool has, which is pretty pathetic. The work that Bramel, Borberly, Rozelle, and others do over there is nothing short of outstanding. They don't get enough love on these forums imo.

I would never join a league if it didn't involve IDP. In my main league Patrick Willis is a top 10 player (currently ranked 6th). Thats the way it should be. Defensive players should be very important, but still a slight edge given to the elite offensive players.

2nd year of IDP for me , never going back to offense only.

Oh and the IDP sections on these boards are by far the most informative , wish more ppl contributed to it.

Despite your wishes, the masses of FF players don't want to be bothered. I think the number lies between 10 and 15% for participation in IDP of ANY kind.

I just think thats sad. They are missing out on half of the fun. I can understand that only 10-15% of the 'masses' of FF players actually want to play IDP, what i don't understand is why only 10-20% of the 'sharks' on these forums actually play IDP

To each his own. We started with IDP in '95, dropped it in '99 and would never go back.

 

[bentley]

Multi sport fantasy.Each owner has players from different major sports leagues on the "same" team.For example, NFL football + NBA basketball NFL football + NCAA football NFL football + NBA basketball + MLB baseball (Bo Jackson #1 pick?) etc. etc.Trading Adrian Peterson for, say, LeBron James would be interesting.

I was in a four sport dynasty with a bunch of yokels from around here once. What a mess.

 

[DropKick]

I was in a league a couple of years ago that had an interesting wrinkle. The first 14 weeks were head-to-head with your usual wins and losses. Three division winners and best remaining team based on record made the playoffs.But the playoffs were different in that each playoff team combined their weekly average score in the regular season with their two playoff weeks and the point leader of those three was declared the winner. Given that the average score ranged by like 20 points, the top score team started with that as an advantage. Those points actually made a difference in the final outcome.

I've also used a play-off home field advantage based on win differential. So, for example, a 11-2 team playing an 8-5 team might get 9 points (3 more wins at 3 points) home field advantage. We use a minimum differential of 1 so the higher seeded team gets some advantage and no home field in the championship game, which is inter-division.

 

[DropKick]

Things I would like to see start happening more.....1. People go to the draft with NOTHING to help them. No laptop, no magazine, no cheatsheets, no nothing. Draft strictly off of knowledge. Too many times I have had players stolen out from underneath me because someone in the league that knows little about that player, sees his name high on a cheat sheet etc. This will truly let the cream rise to the top.2. Bigger leagues.....I play in a 10 teamer right now, and the league simply isn't big enough. All the teams have too many good players. This kind of goes back to my 1st point. In bigger leagues, you HAVE to know what you are doing, because the talent isn't nearly as plentiful. 12 teamers are ok, 14 teamers even better and 16 teamers....now were talking. 3. Scoring to go back to more closely resemble the NFL. I will say this though...I play in a league right now with 6 for all TD's and 1/10. Though I do see the value of it on some levels, I still don't like seeing games that are 90-78. Those resemble NBA scores, not NFL scores. You don't get points for yardage in the NFL why should you in Fantasy Football?? 6 for all TD's and bonus points for thresholds of 100(incremental from there) and 300(incremental from there) is good enough. Those games will generally end in the 30's. THAT more closely resembles an NFL game.4. More leagues go back to playing their Fantasy Bowl in week 17. If there are regular season NFL games played in a given week, there should also be Fantasy games played that week. Have studs that sit out or don't play much?? DRAFT BETTER DEPTH!!!. See point #1.5. Lineup requirements go back to something more resembling an NFL lineup. Do you see two QB's on the field in an NFL game?? How about 3 RB's?? Lineup requirements should be something along these lines.... 1 QB, 2 RB's 2 WR's 1 TE, 1 K....or....1 QB, 1 RB, 3 WR's, 1TE, 1K....or.... 1 QB, 1 RB's, 2 WR's, 2 TE's, 1K.......That's IT.

Good luck with that!I remember the days when I scoured the box scores on Monday morning looking for emerging players. Information is now plentiful and that won't change.Scoring in NFL ranges? Sounds like TD only and, once again, I don't see the FF community moving backward. Nothing worse than your RB posting 140 yards to lose rushing TDs to a sneak or the FB. The bottom line is many players contribute to NFL success with yardage, receptions, etc. It's a mistake to ignore that production and focus just on TDs.Week 17? Far too many teams have packed it in because they're play-off or homeward bound. Way too flukey to decide a season on!