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Flint, Michigan lead poisoning in water supply (1 Viewer)

Also this is a real problem across the country. There are thousands of cities we lead in the water at levels near or worse than Flint. We should probably put bombing other countries on pause while we make sure we all have safe drinking water. 

Or they can all simply move somewhere else.. Good idea. 

 
squistion said:
Rachel Maddow MSNBC‏Verified account @maddow 8m8 minutes ago

Four years ago today, an "emergency manager" appointed by Michigan Governor Rick Snyder flipped the switch that poisoned the water supply in the City of Flint.

https://twitter.com/maddow/status/989246278365335552
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Yeah, I'm sure Snyder woke up, appointed an EM with specific instructions to poison Flint.  How stupid.

Stop posting garbage tweets, please. We all know how to access twitter.

 
jabarony said:
Yeah, I'm sure Snyder woke up, appointed an EM with specific instructions to poison Flint.  How stupid.

Stop posting garbage tweets, please. We all know how to access twitter.
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It’s not a garbage tweet. The accusation was never that he sought to poison Flint; it’s that he tried to cut costs without taking into account what might happen, and this was the result: an irresponsible move which is also representative of Republican ideology. Cutting red tape and streamlining costs is commendable but Republicans never seem to know when to stop (just as some Democrats never seem to know when to stop spending.) 

It’s a reasonable criticism of Snyder. And because people suffered, there ought to be more consequences, IMO. 

 
timschochet said:
It’s not a garbage tweet. The accusation was never that he sought to poison Flint; it’s that he tried to cut costs without taking into account what might happen, and this was the result: an irresponsible move which is also representative of Republican ideology. Cutting red tape and streamlining costs is commendable but Republicans never seem to know when to stop (just as some Democrats never seem to know when to stop spending.) 

It’s a reasonable criticism of Snyder. And because people suffered, there ought to be more consequences, IMO. 
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That is the Maddows narrative to blame the governor, but the narrative is not honest.  Before the crisis Flint already had the most expensive water in the nation, over $140 per month for residents.  The citizens were fighting cost increases complaining the elderly were being hurt and a judge eventually ruled against further price increases.  The city was already massively in the hole and there was massive incompetency in running their system.  The state was handed a turd and forced to step in, and yes try to stop the massive cost overruns.  There were other issues with non-political state employees fudging data.  There were issues with the EPA turning a blind eye.  This wasn't a case of regulations being cut.  It was a case of incompentence and negligence at the local, state and federal levels.  Maddows wanted to focus the blame at purely at the governor's feet because he is the prominent Republican and she is a partisan hack.  There are people going to jail for this, but Snyder certainly isn't.  And the sad fact is, Flint's water problem isn't all that abnormal.  There are hundreds of communities across this country with worse water.   Trying to pin this all on Snyder and cutting red tape is an extremely misleading narrative.  The reality was far more complex and not related to that.  

 
Jon Favreau‏Verified account @jonfavs 11h11 hours ago

Comedian ends comedy dinner by saying that Flint still doesn’t have clean water, an attempt to point out Washington’s continued neglect of people who need help.

Washington responds with a rigorous debate about the tone and civility of the comedian’s jokes.

Perfect.

 
squistion said:
Jon Favreau‏Verified account @jonfavs 11h11 hours ago

Comedian ends comedy dinner by saying that Flint still doesn’t have clean water, an attempt to point out Washington’s continued neglect of people who need help.

Washington responds with a rigorous debate about the tone and civility of the comedian’s jokes.

Perfect.
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Buy bottled water or move.   It's not complicated.

 
The state says it’s safe. The mayor says it may not be. 

Whom are we to believe? I can’t say that, if I lived there, I’d feel OK about drinking that water. Would you? 

 
Henry Ford said:
And how many ppb of lead in the water would you be good with? For your kids?
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I have no idea, I would have to do some research obviously.

I'm just saying, I don't know why anyone would take the mayor's or the state's or anyone elses word on what the levels are.

 
On January 24, 2017 the MDEQ told FlintMayor Karen Weaver that the lead content ofFlint water had fallen below the federal limit. The 90th percentile of lead concentrations inFlint was 12 parts per billion from July 2016 through December 2016—below the "action level" of 15 ppb.

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
I have no idea, I would have to do some research obviously.

I'm just saying, I don't know why anyone would take the mayor's or the state's or anyone elses word on what the levels are.
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I don’t think that’s the biggest issue.  The issue is the state says levels under 15 ppb of lead are compliant. Science says there’s no safe level of lead for children.  The pipes won’t be replaced until 2020. 

 
Henry Ford said:
I don’t think that’s the biggest issue.  The issue is the state says levels under 15 ppb of lead are compliant. Science says there’s no safe level of lead for children.  The pipes won’t be replaced until 2020. 
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That is not what science says.  Science has not identified what level is safe, which is different than saying no level is safe.   Most kids would be suffering lead poisoning if that was true because tap water will usually have some level of lead in it no matter where you are.  

 
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jon_mx said:
That is not what science says.  Science has not identified what level is safe, which is different than saying no level is safe.   Most kids would be suffering lead poisoning if that was true because tap water will usually have some level of lead in it no matter where you are.  
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My apologies.  I certainly don’t mean to misrepresent.  Let me just post the quote from the CDC:

No safe blood lead level in children has been identified.
Click to expand...

That’s enough to question whether it’s fine to drink at 15 ppb in my opinion. 

 
Henry Ford said:
My apologies.  I certainly don’t mean to misrepresent.  Let me just post the quote from the CDC:

That’s enough to question whether it’s fine to drink at 15 ppb in my opinion. 
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Sure, it is concerning.   But millions of kids every day drink water with the levels which are currently in Flint.  During the crisis the levels were ten times higher and in some cases astronomical.   There is nothing more dangerous in Flint today than average town USA.  That said, I would still test my water because of the history.  

 
jon_mx said:
Sure, it is concerning.   But millions of kids every day drink water with the levels which are currently in Flint.  During the crisis the levels were ten times higher and in some cases astronomical.   There is nothing more dangerous in Flint today than average town USA.  That said, I would still test my water because of the history.  
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I’m not sure I’d give a kid unfiltered water from the tap anywhere in the country these days. Which is sad. 

 
jon_mx said:
That is not what science says.  Science has not identified what level is safe, which is different than saying no level is safe.   Most kids would be suffering lead poisoning if that was true because tap water will usually have some level of lead in it no matter where you are.  
Click to expand...
Says the guy who for years in threads first denied that climate change was even happening, but then changed his position to that science has not proven that it is man made. You are against any legislation to reduce climate change but now are adamant that Flint drinking water is completely and 100% safe, because the GOP governor says so, who is responsible for this mess to begin with. Yeah, right...

 
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squistion said:
Says the guy who for years in threads first denied that climate change was even happening, but then changed his position to that science has not proven that it is man made. You are against any legislation to reduce climate change but now are adamant that Flint drinking water is completely and 100% safe, because the GOP governor says so, who is responsible for this mess to begin with. Yeah, right...
Click to expand...
Says the guy with a notebook who does not know what the frick he is talking about.  Talk about trolling.  We were having an intelligent back and forth and then you drop by with your usual garbage.  You are the worst.   You drag up the past for no reason at all and grossly mischaracterize it.  Go away with your nonsense.  

 
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jon_mx said:
Says the guy with a notebook whi does not know what the frick he is talking about.  Talk about trolling.  We were having an intelligent back and forth and then you drop by with your usual garbage.  You are the worst.   You drag up the past for no reason at all and grossly muscharacterize it.  Go away with your nonsense.  
Click to expand...
Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes.

- George Santayana

 
squistion said:
Says the guy who for years in threads first denied that climate change was even happening, but then changed his position to that science has not proven that it is man made. You are against any legislation to reduce climate change but now are adamant that Flint drinking water is completely and 100% safe, because the GOP governor says so, who is responsible for this mess to begin with. Yeah, right...
Click to expand...
Please keep it to the topic we're discussing. 

 
squistion said:
Says the guy who for years in threads first denied that climate change was even happening, but then changed his position to that science has not proven that it is man made. You are against any legislation to reduce climate change but now are adamant that Flint drinking water is completely and 100% safe, because the GOP governor says so, who is responsible for this mess to begin with. Yeah, right...
Click to expand...
:loco:

 
Snorkelson said:
Well, if someone in power says “mission accomplished,” it must be true!
Click to expand...
Nobody said that, but thanks for the rhetoric.  Have to say this is much improved over the crimes against humanity and Nuremburg trails rhetoric in the beginning of this thread.  Amazing that Snyder has not been found criminally liable for intentionally poisoning children as many suggested early on.  Now we have hundreds of miles of pipes which have been replace and testing results of thousands of samples from independent testing labs which put the results at anywhere from 4 to 12 parts per billion.  This is not the state saying this, but scientific independent test results.  There is still work being done, but the results from over the last year indicate the water is well within EPA levels.  No level of lead is good, but zero is only for the rainbow and unicorn crowd.  It is not realistic.  Meanwhile there are thousands of communities across the US and even in Michigan which have far worse water than now is in Flint.  At this point the only justification to continue the highly elevated levels of attention is political while other situations which are far more critical get neglected. 

 
jon_mx said:
Nobody said that, but thanks for the rhetoric.  Have to say this is much improved over the crimes against humanity and Nuremburg trails rhetoric in the beginning of this thread.  Amazing that Snyder has not been found criminally liable for intentionally poisoning children as many suggested early on.  Now we have hundreds of miles of pipes which have been replace and testing results of thousands of samples from independent testing labs which put the results at anywhere from 4 to 12 parts per billion.  This is not the state saying this, but scientific independent test results.  There is still work being done, but the results from over the last year indicate the water is well within EPA levels.  No level of lead is good, but zero is only for the rainbow and unicorn crowd.  It is not realistic.  Meanwhile there are thousands of communities across the US and even in Michigan which have far worse water than now is in Flint.  At this point the only justification to continue the highly elevated levels of attention is political while other situations which are far more critical get neglected. 
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Ok the water is inside of what’s considered safe, if filtered. Let’s all pat each other on the back. Intentionally poisoning children? Of course not. Guilty of negligence? I think so. Yes they were handed a poor situation, made a poor decision, then ignored the problem well after it was discovered. The city needed leadership and no one stepped up along the way. Now, rather than demand a higher standard, it’s “the water is safe (if filtered), so we aren’t paying for your bottled water anymore.” 

 
Snorkelson said:
Ok the water is inside of what’s considered safe, if filtered. Let’s all pat each other on the back. Intentionally poisoning children? Of course not. Guilty of negligence? I think so. Yes they were handed a poor situation, made a poor decision, then ignored the problem well after it was discovered. The city needed leadership and no one stepped up along the way. Now, rather than demand a higher standard, it’s “the water is safe (if filtered), so we aren’t paying for your bottled water anymore.” 
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Try again.  The tests were on unfilltered water.  They have been receiving bottled water for 20 plus months after water first started passing EPA standards.  It is a very rationale decision to end the bottled water supply.  It is a costly and unsubstainable program which the situation no longer calls for.

 Didn't step in?  Most of the #####ing early on was that the state stepped too far in.  There were lots of misteps and even some counts of altering data and producing misleading reports.  15 people are facing charges from lying to investigators to involuntary manslaughter.  Very serious negligence and gross incompetence starting at the local level and up to the state level and even the federal level.  But sifting through all the emails and after a thorough investigation did not find Snyder did anything which warranted criminal charges. 

 
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jon_mx said:
Try again.  The tests were on unfilltered water.  They have been receiving bottled water for 20 plus months after water first started passing EPA standards.  It is a very rationale decision to end the bottled water supply.  It is a costly and unsubstainable program which the situation no longer calls for.

 Didn't step in?  Most of the #####ing early on was that the state stepped too far in.  There were lots of misteps and even some counts of altering data and producing misleading reports.  15 people are facing charges from lying to investigators to involuntary manslaughter.  Very serious negligence and gross incompetence starting at the local level and up to the state level and even the federal level.  But sifting through all the emails and after a thorough investigation did not find Snyder did anything which warranted criminal charges. 
Click to expand...
I just hope other municipalities learn the lesson here. Every city in the country should be investigating their water sources and fixing where needed. 

 
rude classless thugs said:
The death toll in Flint, Michigan from contaminated water may be much higher than state health officials have acknowledged, a FRONTLINE investigation found.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/flint-water-crisis-deaths-likely-surpass-official-toll/?utm_source=TWITTER&utm_medium=social&utm_term=20180806&utm_content=1710476753&utm_campaign=Frontline Season 36&linkId=55211268
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My brothers college roommate was one of the first people indicted. I feel bad for him, he’s a good guy who in hindsight could have been the one to stop this. He was one person expressing concerns, who was asking questions, but who ultimately falsified a report by throwing out some of the highest samples at his bosses request (said they didn’t fit testing criteria.) He’s pretty much the only decision maker involved that lives in flint and drank the water, along with his family. Ultimately I believe he’s cooperated with authorities and has had his charges dropped or reduced, and I think even has kept his job although perhaps he’s still on paid leave. I can’t imagine how he will feel after reading that it perhaps led to many more deaths than previously thought. 

 
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