Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (1 Viewer)

[TexanFan02]

Will the detectives be unprepared and ambushed when they give inconsistent statements or testify to something in favor of Zimmerman at the trial?

Who gave an inconsistent statement? And no, they'll be prepared. You know this.

Nobody. But the way you qualified his testimony shows your blind bias. You sound like Carolina Hustler.

Do detectives normally get grilled at bond hearings? Seeing as how he said "I didn't expect to be testifying today" I'm going to guess not in Florida. But characterize it however you want.

You're right, what do I know, I only do this for a living. Look, I agree with the sentiment that the officer's denial of knowledge at the bond hearing isn't a big deal. It's not. What stood out from your post was how you essentially villainized the defense for eliciting information relevant to the bond hearing from an officer and blindly excusing the officer from having any knowledge about the issue. If an investigating officer has done his job, he should be able to testify about major points at any moment.

No I didn't. It was a good tactic on their part, but obviously one that is rarely if ever used, that's why the detective was unprepared. That's why his answers were so cagey as well, he was very careful. Watch it again, you're a PD, you can tell.

1. You essentially accused the defense of ambushing the officer. Ambush carries a negative connotation. 2. The merits of the charge are almost always touched on during a hearing for a motion to release. And it appears the defense wasn't asking for specific details. The officer doesn't get a pass here as you suggest.

3. Anyone testifying under oath can appear cagey because of the accusatory nature of cross-examination. Heck, I've testified in court before and probable came off as cagey as some points despite being completely confident on my knowledge of what I was testifying to.

Do you regularly cross examine Detectives during bond hearings? Yes or no.

Does he regularly defend one of the most famous accused murderers in the country?There's nothing regular or normal about this case, you ninny.

So YES or NO? Its not that hard of a question to answer? I just want to know, because I dont know.

I'm still waiting for Woz, Christo is just deflecting.

 

[Christo]

I'm still waiting for Woz, Christo is just deflecting.

It's not deflecting when you're begging the question.

 

[Witz]

What does it matter whether they are regularly cross examined or not? The lead detective (who should know his way around the court room already) should know better then to provide a response if he wasn't sure of the answer.

Why is this even being discussed?

Greenroom = Texasfan02 ?

 

[Chaos Commish]

Tim, if the jury is convinced that zimmerman is lying about Martin beating him then of course they should convinct of at least manslaughter.

Or if Zimmerman's stories are chock full of obvious lies that don't match each other or the physical evidence.Or if the jury determines that by following Martin (twice?) Zimmerman actually initiated the confrontation, and Martin was reasonably defending himself.

I think it's been established in this thread (for what that's worth..) that Zimmerman could have initiated the fight, and Martin could have been defending himself, but at some point Zimmerman could still have the right to defend himself..

Hypothetical:

Zimmerman starts it with trying to detain or whatever.. Then Martin starts beating his @55.. Zimmerman getting wailed on gets scared because he's trapped under Tray, can't get away, calls for help, no help.. etc.. :gunshot:

I have always felt that this is how it is going to play out barring any evidence we haven't heard about.

The prosecution testified under oath that they have no proof George started the confrontation. However, the charging affidavit, also a sworn statement subject to perjury, clearly states that George confronted Trayvon.

Actually, one detective who was unprepared and ambushed at a bond hearing testified that he didn't know of any proof. That doesn't mean that's all there is.

That's why I shrugged, but he's a little more than one unprepared detective. He's one of two who signed the affidavit, our affiant. So according to Zow's response, the affiant can make sworn statements of fact (my understanding of the definition of an affidavit) even though they have no proof of fact if they simply believe them to be true. And and this is no big deal. I think that's probably pretty loose rationale, but I do not do this for a living. I'd like a little clarity on that though.Lester has been unwilling to sidestep Florida's sunshine laws. To date the only evidence not made public is Zimmerman's statements to the police (which have been ordered released in the next 12 days), the names and addresses of the witnesses, and maybe some 1000 emails to the police that may or may not be entered into evidence. Like you TF, I've been through the mountain of evidence and videos, much of it more than once. You can't point to anything in it that proves George started the confrontation as factually stated in the affidavit. The only thing reasonably suggesting George initiated the confrontation is in Dee Dee's 22 minute statement. Her interpretation of sounds on a phone call are a far cry from proof. George's statements won't prove he started the fight. That leaves you with these emails or some future discovery. I think it's pretty safe to say the affiant, Investigator Gilbreath, testified honestly when he stated there was no proof of who started the confrontation that he swore under oath was started by George. Big deal? I guess not, but credibility is a two way street.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Tim, if the jury is convinced that zimmerman is lying about Martin beating him then of course they should convinct of at least manslaughter.

Or if Zimmerman's stories are chock full of obvious lies that don't match each other or the physical evidence.Or if the jury determines that by following Martin (twice?) Zimmerman actually initiated the confrontation, and Martin was reasonably defending himself.

I think it's been established in this thread (for what that's worth..) that Zimmerman could have initiated the fight, and Martin could have been defending himself, but at some point Zimmerman could still have the right to defend himself..Hypothetical:Zimmerman starts it with trying to detain or whatever.. Then Martin starts beating his @55.. Zimmerman getting wailed on gets scared because he's trapped under Tray, can't get away, calls for help, no help.. etc.. :gunshot:

I said this waaay back in this thread...i believe that right after the fight started zimm grabbed his gun and treyvon was fighting for his life .I dont think he was trying to get the gun so he could shoot zimm, i think he was just trying to not get shot, hence the prolonged yelling before he was killed.

Certainly a possibility.. I guess my question would be how this scenario enters the court? Does the prosecution paint this picture by asking the defendant a serious of questions that he'll more than likely deny? And hope the jury understands the picture they're trying to portray? At this point, if that was the way this went down, who is there who can witness in court? Doesn't sound like any of our current witnesses have described this scenario..

I dont think there is anyway to prove this as its only my theory. None of the witnesses would know if there was a gun until they heard a shot, at least nobody mentioned seeing one during the struggle. It was dark and trey and zimm were in close quarters fighting.

I think based on John's testimony, you'd have to assume they were well into the struggle before the gun came out.. He describes the struggle to some extent, without mentioning a gun..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Tim, if the jury is convinced that zimmerman is lying about Martin beating him then of course they should convinct of at least manslaughter.

Or if Zimmerman's stories are chock full of obvious lies that don't match each other or the physical evidence.Or if the jury determines that by following Martin (twice?) Zimmerman actually initiated the confrontation, and Martin was reasonably defending himself.

I think it's been established in this thread (for what that's worth..) that Zimmerman could have initiated the fight, and Martin could have been defending himself, but at some point Zimmerman could still have the right to defend himself..Hypothetical:Zimmerman starts it with trying to detain or whatever.. Then Martin starts beating his @55.. Zimmerman getting wailed on gets scared because he's trapped under Tray, can't get away, calls for help, no help.. etc.. :gunshot:

I said this waaay back in this thread...i believe that right after the fight started zimm grabbed his gun and treyvon was fighting for his life .I dont think he was trying to get the gun so he could shoot zimm, i think he was just trying to not get shot, hence the prolonged yelling before he was killed.

Yes, because the typical tactic when someone has a gun is to pound their face into the ground. #### the gun, I want to break the SOB's nose.

Who said f the gun? i said i dont think if he was trying to take the gun away so he could shoot zimmerman, just trying to not get shot. Hes a 17 yo kid, i highly doubt hes ever been in that situation before. Im 48 and ive never had a gun pulled on me during a fight. If i did im trying to push the gun away and hitting with my free hand, or something, who knows.What i do know is id be ####ting bricks . You cant run because you cant out run a bullet, so you`re stuck in the moment to do whatever you insticts and oppertunity presents to you. Its as plausable as anything else in this thread thats been said.Remember the yelling went on for awhile, ive been in many many fights and seen as many first hand i ive nvere heard someone scream like like...ever.

I've had a gun pointed at me a few times, and generally, that changes my mind if I was considering fisticuffs.. Usually when a gun comes out, it's either for show, or to detain.. Rarely does the gunman want to shoot.. At least that's been my experience..You want to be a bad ###? You want me to ##### up? Point a gun at me.. You can walk away feeling like a tough guy and I get to live.. Fair trade if you ask me.. I'll call the police later once I'm safe and out of range..I don't agree that the first thing you want to do when someone pulls a gun is fight..

 

[pantherclub]

Tim, if the jury is convinced that zimmerman is lying about Martin beating him then of course they should convinct of at least manslaughter.

Or if Zimmerman's stories are chock full of obvious lies that don't match each other or the physical evidence.Or if the jury determines that by following Martin (twice?) Zimmerman actually initiated the confrontation, and Martin was reasonably defending himself.

I think it's been established in this thread (for what that's worth..) that Zimmerman could have initiated the fight, and Martin could have been defending himself, but at some point Zimmerman could still have the right to defend himself..

Hypothetical:

Zimmerman starts it with trying to detain or whatever.. Then Martin starts beating his @55.. Zimmerman getting wailed on gets scared because he's trapped under Tray, can't get away, calls for help, no help.. etc.. :gunshot:

I said this waaay back in this thread...i believe that right after the fight started zimm grabbed his gun and treyvon was fighting for his life .I dont think he was trying to get the gun so he could shoot zimm, i think he was just trying to not get shot, hence the prolonged yelling before he was killed.

Yes, because the typical tactic when someone has a gun is to pound their face into the ground. #### the gun, I want to break the SOB's nose.

Who said f the gun? i said i dont think if he was trying to take the gun away so he could shoot zimmerman, just trying to not get shot. Hes a 17 yo kid, i highly doubt hes ever been in that situation before. Im 48 and ive never had a gun pulled on me during a fight. If i did im trying to push the gun away and hitting with my free hand, or something, who knows.What i do know is id be ####ting bricks . You cant run because you cant out run a bullet, so you`re stuck in the moment to do whatever you insticts and oppertunity presents to you. Its as plausable as anything else in this thread thats been said.Remember the yelling went on for awhile, ive been in many many fights and seen as many first hand i ive nvere heard someone scream like like...ever.

I've had a gun pointed at me a few times, and generally, that changes my mind if I was considering fisticuffs.. Usually when a gun comes out, it's either for show, or to detain.. Rarely does the gunman want to shoot.. At least that's been my experience..You want to be a bad ###? You want me to ##### up? Point a gun at me.. You can walk away feeling like a tough guy and I get to live.. Fair trade if you ask me.. I'll call the police later once I'm safe and out of range..

I don't agree that the first thing you want to do when someone pulls a gun is fight..

And you gave me hell for getting into 20 or so fights

you are a piece of work dude

 

[TexanFan02]

I'm still waiting for Woz, Christo is just deflecting.

It's not deflecting when you're begging the question.

Yes it is. Standard Christo tactic.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Tim, if the jury is convinced that zimmerman is lying about Martin beating him then of course they should convinct of at least manslaughter.

Or if Zimmerman's stories are chock full of obvious lies that don't match each other or the physical evidence.Or if the jury determines that by following Martin (twice?) Zimmerman actually initiated the confrontation, and Martin was reasonably defending himself.

I think it's been established in this thread (for what that's worth..) that Zimmerman could have initiated the fight, and Martin could have been defending himself, but at some point Zimmerman could still have the right to defend himself..

Hypothetical:

Zimmerman starts it with trying to detain or whatever.. Then Martin starts beating his @55.. Zimmerman getting wailed on gets scared because he's trapped under Tray, can't get away, calls for help, no help.. etc.. :gunshot:

I said this waaay back in this thread...i believe that right after the fight started zimm grabbed his gun and treyvon was fighting for his life .I dont think he was trying to get the gun so he could shoot zimm, i think he was just trying to not get shot, hence the prolonged yelling before he was killed.

Yes, because the typical tactic when someone has a gun is to pound their face into the ground. #### the gun, I want to break the SOB's nose.

Who said f the gun? i said i dont think if he was trying to take the gun away so he could shoot zimmerman, just trying to not get shot. Hes a 17 yo kid, i highly doubt hes ever been in that situation before. Im 48 and ive never had a gun pulled on me during a fight. If i did im trying to push the gun away and hitting with my free hand, or something, who knows.What i do know is id be ####ting bricks . You cant run because you cant out run a bullet, so you`re stuck in the moment to do whatever you insticts and oppertunity presents to you. Its as plausable as anything else in this thread thats been said.Remember the yelling went on for awhile, ive been in many many fights and seen as many first hand i ive nvere heard someone scream like like...ever.

I've had a gun pointed at me a few times, and generally, that changes my mind if I was considering fisticuffs.. Usually when a gun comes out, it's either for show, or to detain.. Rarely does the gunman want to shoot.. At least that's been my experience..You want to be a bad ###? You want me to ##### up? Point a gun at me.. You can walk away feeling like a tough guy and I get to live.. Fair trade if you ask me.. I'll call the police later once I'm safe and out of range..

I don't agree that the first thing you want to do when someone pulls a gun is fight..

And you gave me hell for getting into 20 or so fights

you are a piece of work dude

Again, you're adding nothing to the discussion.. Everyone already knows I got under your skin and you got under mine.. Let it go, and move on.. If you want to joist with me personally, either do it in PM or meet me at the gym..

 

[mad sweeney]

Tim, if the jury is convinced that zimmerman is lying about Martin beating him then of course they should convinct of at least manslaughter.

Or if Zimmerman's stories are chock full of obvious lies that don't match each other or the physical evidence.Or if the jury determines that by following Martin (twice?) Zimmerman actually initiated the confrontation, and Martin was reasonably defending himself.

I think it's been established in this thread (for what that's worth..) that Zimmerman could have initiated the fight, and Martin could have been defending himself, but at some point Zimmerman could still have the right to defend himself..

Hypothetical:

Zimmerman starts it with trying to detain or whatever.. Then Martin starts beating his @55.. Zimmerman getting wailed on gets scared because he's trapped under Tray, can't get away, calls for help, no help.. etc.. :gunshot:

I said this waaay back in this thread...i believe that right after the fight started zimm grabbed his gun and treyvon was fighting for his life .I dont think he was trying to get the gun so he could shoot zimm, i think he was just trying to not get shot, hence the prolonged yelling before he was killed.

Yes, because the typical tactic when someone has a gun is to pound their face into the ground. #### the gun, I want to break the SOB's nose.

Who said f the gun? i said i dont think if he was trying to take the gun away so he could shoot zimmerman, just trying to not get shot. Hes a 17 yo kid, i highly doubt hes ever been in that situation before. Im 48 and ive never had a gun pulled on me during a fight. If i did im trying to push the gun away and hitting with my free hand, or something, who knows.What i do know is id be ####ting bricks . You cant run because you cant out run a bullet, so you`re stuck in the moment to do whatever you insticts and oppertunity presents to you. Its as plausable as anything else in this thread thats been said.Remember the yelling went on for awhile, ive been in many many fights and seen as many first hand i ive nvere heard someone scream like like...ever.

Apparently in that situation you're not allowed to try and knock the guy with the gun unconscious. If you do that you're a brutal thug mercilessly bashing someone's head into the ground who is most definitely not trying to save your own life by eliminating the threat of being shot.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Tim, if the jury is convinced that zimmerman is lying about Martin beating him then of course they should convinct of at least manslaughter.

Or if Zimmerman's stories are chock full of obvious lies that don't match each other or the physical evidence.Or if the jury determines that by following Martin (twice?) Zimmerman actually initiated the confrontation, and Martin was reasonably defending himself.

I think it's been established in this thread (for what that's worth..) that Zimmerman could have initiated the fight, and Martin could have been defending himself, but at some point Zimmerman could still have the right to defend himself..

Hypothetical:

Zimmerman starts it with trying to detain or whatever.. Then Martin starts beating his @55.. Zimmerman getting wailed on gets scared because he's trapped under Tray, can't get away, calls for help, no help.. etc.. :gunshot:

I said this waaay back in this thread...i believe that right after the fight started zimm grabbed his gun and treyvon was fighting for his life .I dont think he was trying to get the gun so he could shoot zimm, i think he was just trying to not get shot, hence the prolonged yelling before he was killed.

Yes, because the typical tactic when someone has a gun is to pound their face into the ground. #### the gun, I want to break the SOB's nose.

Who said f the gun? i said i dont think if he was trying to take the gun away so he could shoot zimmerman, just trying to not get shot. Hes a 17 yo kid, i highly doubt hes ever been in that situation before. Im 48 and ive never had a gun pulled on me during a fight. If i did im trying to push the gun away and hitting with my free hand, or something, who knows.What i do know is id be ####ting bricks . You cant run because you cant out run a bullet, so you`re stuck in the moment to do whatever you insticts and oppertunity presents to you. Its as plausable as anything else in this thread thats been said.Remember the yelling went on for awhile, ive been in many many fights and seen as many first hand i ive nvere heard someone scream like like...ever.

Apparently in that situation you're not allowed to try and knock the guy with the gun unconscious. If you do that you're a brutal thug mercilessly bashing someone's head into the ground who is most definitely not trying to save your own life by eliminating the threat of being shot.

Not a very smart move, because once you try to knock him unconscious, you've invoked his right to defend himself, but whatever..

 

[Christo]

I'm still waiting for Woz, Christo is just deflecting.

It's not deflecting when you're begging the question.

Yes it is. Standard Christo tactic.

AMBUSH!

 

[mad sweeney]

Tim, if the jury is convinced that zimmerman is lying about Martin beating him then of course they should convinct of at least manslaughter.

Or if Zimmerman's stories are chock full of obvious lies that don't match each other or the physical evidence.Or if the jury determines that by following Martin (twice?) Zimmerman actually initiated the confrontation, and Martin was reasonably defending himself.

I think it's been established in this thread (for what that's worth..) that Zimmerman could have initiated the fight, and Martin could have been defending himself, but at some point Zimmerman could still have the right to defend himself..

Hypothetical:

Zimmerman starts it with trying to detain or whatever.. Then Martin starts beating his @55.. Zimmerman getting wailed on gets scared because he's trapped under Tray, can't get away, calls for help, no help.. etc.. :gunshot:

I said this waaay back in this thread...i believe that right after the fight started zimm grabbed his gun and treyvon was fighting for his life .I dont think he was trying to get the gun so he could shoot zimm, i think he was just trying to not get shot, hence the prolonged yelling before he was killed.

Yes, because the typical tactic when someone has a gun is to pound their face into the ground. #### the gun, I want to break the SOB's nose.

Who said f the gun? i said i dont think if he was trying to take the gun away so he could shoot zimmerman, just trying to not get shot. Hes a 17 yo kid, i highly doubt hes ever been in that situation before. Im 48 and ive never had a gun pulled on me during a fight. If i did im trying to push the gun away and hitting with my free hand, or something, who knows.What i do know is id be ####ting bricks . You cant run because you cant out run a bullet, so you`re stuck in the moment to do whatever you insticts and oppertunity presents to you. Its as plausable as anything else in this thread thats been said.Remember the yelling went on for awhile, ive been in many many fights and seen as many first hand i ive nvere heard someone scream like like...ever.

Apparently in that situation you're not allowed to try and knock the guy with the gun unconscious. If you do that you're a brutal thug mercilessly bashing someone's head into the ground who is most definitely not trying to save your own life by eliminating the threat of being shot.

Not a very smart move, because once you try to knock him unconscious, you've invoked his right to defend himself, but whatever..

Much better to let up and let the guy get his gun without a fight. You're the self proclaimed discussion genius. Tell me what you would do in this situation: someone is following you and you're scared to lead him to your house. You confront him to ask why and all he does is start demanding info from you, then pushes you and starts a fight. During the fight you realize he's got a gun. Now what, do you do? You don't get to knock him out to defend yourself? It's a ridiculous assertion, though just middle of the pack for you (I liked how you said someone other than yourself was the joke of the family!).

 

[TexanFan02]

I'm still waiting for Woz, Christo is just deflecting.

It's not deflecting when you're begging the question.

Yes it is. Standard Christo tactic.

AMBUSH!

Still got nothing, I see.

 

[pantherclub]

Tim, if the jury is convinced that zimmerman is lying about Martin beating him then of course they should convinct of at least manslaughter.

Or if Zimmerman's stories are chock full of obvious lies that don't match each other or the physical evidence.Or if the jury determines that by following Martin (twice?) Zimmerman actually initiated the confrontation, and Martin was reasonably defending himself.

I think it's been established in this thread (for what that's worth..) that Zimmerman could have initiated the fight, and Martin could have been defending himself, but at some point Zimmerman could still have the right to defend himself..

Hypothetical:

Zimmerman starts it with trying to detain or whatever.. Then Martin starts beating his @55.. Zimmerman getting wailed on gets scared because he's trapped under Tray, can't get away, calls for help, no help.. etc.. :gunshot:

I said this waaay back in this thread...i believe that right after the fight started zimm grabbed his gun and treyvon was fighting for his life .I dont think he was trying to get the gun so he could shoot zimm, i think he was just trying to not get shot, hence the prolonged yelling before he was killed.

Yes, because the typical tactic when someone has a gun is to pound their face into the ground. #### the gun, I want to break the SOB's nose.

Who said f the gun? i said i dont think if he was trying to take the gun away so he could shoot zimmerman, just trying to not get shot. Hes a 17 yo kid, i highly doubt hes ever been in that situation before. Im 48 and ive never had a gun pulled on me during a fight. If i did im trying to push the gun away and hitting with my free hand, or something, who knows.What i do know is id be ####ting bricks . You cant run because you cant out run a bullet, so you`re stuck in the moment to do whatever you insticts and oppertunity presents to you. Its as plausable as anything else in this thread thats been said.Remember the yelling went on for awhile, ive been in many many fights and seen as many first hand i ive nvere heard someone scream like like...ever.

I've had a gun pointed at me a few times, and generally, that changes my mind if I was considering fisticuffs.. Usually when a gun comes out, it's either for show, or to detain.. Rarely does the gunman want to shoot.. At least that's been my experience..You want to be a bad ###? You want me to ##### up? Point a gun at me.. You can walk away feeling like a tough guy and I get to live.. Fair trade if you ask me.. I'll call the police later once I'm safe and out of range..

I don't agree that the first thing you want to do when someone pulls a gun is fight..

And you gave me hell for getting into 20 or so fights

you are a piece of work dude

Again, you're adding nothing to the discussion.. Everyone already knows I got under your skin and you got under mine.. Let it go, and move on.. If you want to joist with me personally, either do it in PM or meet me at the gym..

I can promise you with 100% certainty you are not under my skin as I just laugh and feel sad for you. Yeah right I am sure you have had a gun pointed at you numerous times dude, give it up.

And for the last time I am not going to meet you in the sauna for a little guy on guy action. Try craiglist bro.

 

[Christo]

I'm still waiting for Woz, Christo is just deflecting.

It's not deflecting when you're begging the question.

Yes it is. Standard Christo tactic.

AMBUSH!

Still got nothing, I see.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Well, sounds so smart till you fast forward to the outcome right? Maybe someone approaches you with a gun asking questions you try to be polite and answer them. Seems your way is the right way to get shot dead..You're taking a lot leaps there.. This situation you're describing only resembles the emotion charges supposition we've seen in this thread from the beginning.. So, from my perspective, your question has very little to do with this case.. But I'll answer your question from a hypothetical perspective.

Much better to let up and let the guy get his gun without a fight.

If I'm already in the middle of a fight and a gun comes out, initial reactions would be to either-Run-Try to take the gun-apologize, grovel, and/or plead for your lifeIf I don't think the guy is gonna shoot, if I think he's just trying to get me off of him, I back off and apologize.. If I think the guy is going to shoot me and we're already in close hand to hand, I'm going to grab the gun. This is all hypothetical of course because we don't know how the situation started. And I likely wouldn't have gotten into a fight with this guy anyways.

You're the self proclaimed discussion genius. Tell me what you would do in this situation:

If I was being approached by a concerned neighbor in the middle of the night? I'd explain myself in a proper manner and go home.If I'm being chased and I've a head start and/or I'm obviously faster.. I go home and call the police.If I'm already on the phone with someone, I ask them to 3-way 911 If I'm afraid..Ultimately, if I'm afraid, the last thing I'm gonna do is stick around and start asking questions..

someone is following you and you're scared to lead him to your house.

Not sure why I'd be scared to lead them to my house if I'm not scared to stick around and confront them.

You confront him to ask why and all he does is start demanding info from you,

Did Trayvon confront Zimmerman? This doesn't jive with most of the previous anti-zimmerman claims..If I do stick around to see whats going on, if he starts asking questions, I answer, defuse the situation, and go home..

then pushes you and starts a fight.

If I'm pushed, I think I'd still try to defuse, or call the police. But here again, we have no evidence to support a claim that Trayvon was pushed, starting the struggle..

During the fight you realize he's got a gun. Now what, do you do?

Answered this question above. But ultimately there didn't need to be a fight..

You don't get to knock him out to defend yourself? It's a ridiculous assertion,

Doesn't seem the smart move in hinesight, to invoke the right to use deadly force in someone who has a gun..

though just middle of the pack for you (I liked how you said someone other than yourself was the joke of the family!).

Unnecessary comment^.. But typical of Anti-zimmerman mob..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Tim, if the jury is convinced that zimmerman is lying about Martin beating him then of course they should convinct of at least manslaughter.

Or if Zimmerman's stories are chock full of obvious lies that don't match each other or the physical evidence.Or if the jury determines that by following Martin (twice?) Zimmerman actually initiated the confrontation, and Martin was reasonably defending himself.

I think it's been established in this thread (for what that's worth..) that Zimmerman could have initiated the fight, and Martin could have been defending himself, but at some point Zimmerman could still have the right to defend himself..

Hypothetical:

Zimmerman starts it with trying to detain or whatever.. Then Martin starts beating his @55.. Zimmerman getting wailed on gets scared because he's trapped under Tray, can't get away, calls for help, no help.. etc.. :gunshot:

I said this waaay back in this thread...i believe that right after the fight started zimm grabbed his gun and treyvon was fighting for his life .I dont think he was trying to get the gun so he could shoot zimm, i think he was just trying to not get shot, hence the prolonged yelling before he was killed.

Yes, because the typical tactic when someone has a gun is to pound their face into the ground. #### the gun, I want to break the SOB's nose.

Who said f the gun? i said i dont think if he was trying to take the gun away so he could shoot zimmerman, just trying to not get shot. Hes a 17 yo kid, i highly doubt hes ever been in that situation before. Im 48 and ive never had a gun pulled on me during a fight. If i did im trying to push the gun away and hitting with my free hand, or something, who knows.What i do know is id be ####ting bricks . You cant run because you cant out run a bullet, so you`re stuck in the moment to do whatever you insticts and oppertunity presents to you. Its as plausable as anything else in this thread thats been said.Remember the yelling went on for awhile, ive been in many many fights and seen as many first hand i ive nvere heard someone scream like like...ever.

I've had a gun pointed at me a few times, and generally, that changes my mind if I was considering fisticuffs.. Usually when a gun comes out, it's either for show, or to detain.. Rarely does the gunman want to shoot.. At least that's been my experience..You want to be a bad ###? You want me to ##### up? Point a gun at me.. You can walk away feeling like a tough guy and I get to live.. Fair trade if you ask me.. I'll call the police later once I'm safe and out of range..

I don't agree that the first thing you want to do when someone pulls a gun is fight..

And you gave me hell for getting into 20 or so fights

you are a piece of work dude

Again, you're adding nothing to the discussion.. Everyone already knows I got under your skin and you got under mine.. Let it go, and move on.. If you want to joist with me personally, either do it in PM or meet me at the gym..

I can promise you with 100% certainty you are not under my skin as I just laugh and feel sad for you. Yeah right I am sure you have had a gun pointed at you numerous times dude, give it up.

And for the last time I am not going to meet you in the sauna for a little guy on guy action. Try craiglist bro.

Feel better now?What do you say we get on topic and stay there? hmm

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Tim, if the jury is convinced that zimmerman is lying about Martin beating him then of course they should convinct of at least manslaughter.

Or if Zimmerman's stories are chock full of obvious lies that don't match each other or the physical evidence.Or if the jury determines that by following Martin (twice?) Zimmerman actually initiated the confrontation, and Martin was reasonably defending himself.

I think it's been established in this thread (for what that's worth..) that Zimmerman could have initiated the fight, and Martin could have been defending himself, but at some point Zimmerman could still have the right to defend himself..Hypothetical:Zimmerman starts it with trying to detain or whatever.. Then Martin starts beating his @55.. Zimmerman getting wailed on gets scared because he's trapped under Tray, can't get away, calls for help, no help.. etc.. :gunshot:

I said this waaay back in this thread...i believe that right after the fight started zimm grabbed his gun and treyvon was fighting for his life .I dont think he was trying to get the gun so he could shoot zimm, i think he was just trying to not get shot, hence the prolonged yelling before he was killed.

Yes, because the typical tactic when someone has a gun is to pound their face into the ground. #### the gun, I want to break the SOB's nose.

Who said f the gun? i said i dont think if he was trying to take the gun away so he could shoot zimmerman, just trying to not get shot. Hes a 17 yo kid, i highly doubt hes ever been in that situation before. Im 48 and ive never had a gun pulled on me during a fight. If i did im trying to push the gun away and hitting with my free hand, or something, who knows.What i do know is id be ####ting bricks . You cant run because you cant out run a bullet, so you`re stuck in the moment to do whatever you insticts and oppertunity presents to you. Its as plausable as anything else in this thread thats been said.Remember the yelling went on for awhile, ive been in many many fights and seen as many first hand i ive nvere heard someone scream like like...ever.

I've had a gun pointed at me a few times, and generally, that changes my mind if I was considering fisticuffs.. Usually when a gun comes out, it's either for show, or to detain.. Rarely does the gunman want to shoot.. At least that's been my experience..You want to be a bad ###? You want me to ##### up? Point a gun at me.. You can walk away feeling like a tough guy and I get to live.. Fair trade if you ask me.. I'll call the police later once I'm safe and out of range..I don't agree that the first thing you want to do when someone pulls a gun is fight..

I dont think they were towing the line then all of a sudden zimmy pulls his gun out, i think they were already into it , wrestling or what not and then the gun came out , at that point i would think its do or die for someone. You cant turn and run so you have to try to nullify the weapon.The gun then becomes the focal point of the struggle. The screams we hear are screams of dispair and fear of dying, not from punches but from being shot during a hand to hand fight .

 

[TexanFan02]

I'm still waiting for Woz, Christo is just deflecting.

It's not deflecting when you're begging the question.

Yes it is. Standard Christo tactic.

AMBUSH!

Still got nothing, I see.

Keep it up, CH is about to catch your post count.

 

[mad sweeney]

Well, sounds so smart till you fast forward to the outcome right? Maybe someone approaches you with a gun asking questions you try to be polite and answer them. Seems your way is the right way to get shot dead..You're taking a lot leaps there.. This situation you're describing only resembles the emotion charges supposition we've seen in this thread from the beginning.. So, from my perspective, your question has very little to do with this case.. But I'll answer your question from a hypothetical perspective.

Much better to let up and let the guy get his gun without a fight.

If I'm already in the middle of a fight and a gun comes out, initial reactions would be to either-Run-Try to take the gun-apologize, grovel, and/or plead for your lifeIf I don't think the guy is gonna shoot, if I think he's just trying to get me off of him, I back off and apologize.. If I think the guy is going to shoot me and we're already in close hand to hand, I'm going to grab the gun. This is all hypothetical of course because we don't know how the situation started. And I likely wouldn't have gotten into a fight with this guy anyways.

You're the self proclaimed discussion genius. Tell me what you would do in this situation:

If I was being approached by a concerned neighbor in the middle of the night? I'd explain myself in a proper manner and go home.If I'm being chased and I've a head start and/or I'm obviously faster.. I go home and call the police.If I'm already on the phone with someone, I ask them to 3-way 911 If I'm afraid..Ultimately, if I'm afraid, the last thing I'm gonna do is stick around and start asking questions..

someone is following you and you're scared to lead him to your house.

Not sure why I'd be scared to lead them to my house if I'm not scared to stick around and confront them.

You confront him to ask why and all he does is start demanding info from you,

Did Trayvon confront Zimmerman? This doesn't jive with most of the previous anti-zimmerman claims..If I do stick around to see whats going on, if he starts asking questions, I answer, defuse the situation, and go home..

then pushes you and starts a fight.

If I'm pushed, I think I'd still try to defuse, or call the police. But here again, we have no evidence to support a claim that Trayvon was pushed, starting the struggle..

During the fight you realize he's got a gun. Now what, do you do?

Answered this question above. But ultimately there didn't need to be a fight..

You don't get to knock him out to defend yourself? It's a ridiculous assertion,

Doesn't seem the smart move in hinesight, to invoke the right to use deadly force in someone who has a gun..

though just middle of the pack for you (I liked how you said someone other than yourself was the joke of the family!).

Unnecessary comment^.. But typical of Anti-zimmerman mob..

Way to hop around and avoid answering the question!

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Well, sounds so smart till you fast forward to the outcome right? Maybe someone approaches you with a gun asking questions you try to be polite and answer them. Seems your way is the right way to get shot dead..

You're taking a lot leaps there.. This situation you're describing only resembles the emotion charges supposition we've seen in this thread from the beginning.. So, from my perspective, your question has very little to do with this case.. But I'll answer your question from a hypothetical perspective.

Much better to let up and let the guy get his gun without a fight.

If I'm already in the middle of a fight and a gun comes out, initial reactions would be to either-Run

-Try to take the gun

-apologize, grovel, and/or plead for your life

If I don't think the guy is gonna shoot, if I think he's just trying to get me off of him, I back off and apologize.. If I think the guy is going to shoot me and we're already in close hand to hand, I'm going to grab the gun. This is all hypothetical of course because we don't know how the situation started. And I likely wouldn't have gotten into a fight with this guy anyways.

You're the self proclaimed discussion genius. Tell me what you would do in this situation:

If I was being approached by a concerned neighbor in the middle of the night? I'd explain myself in a proper manner and go home.

If I'm being chased and I've a head start and/or I'm obviously faster.. I go home and call the police.

If I'm already on the phone with someone, I ask them to 3-way 911 If I'm afraid..

Ultimately, if I'm afraid, the last thing I'm gonna do is stick around and start asking questions..

someone is following you and you're scared to lead him to your house.

Not sure why I'd be scared to lead them to my house if I'm not scared to stick around and confront them.

You confront him to ask why and all he does is start demanding info from you,

Did Trayvon confront Zimmerman? This doesn't jive with most of the previous anti-zimmerman claims..If I do stick around to see whats going on, if he starts asking questions, I answer, defuse the situation, and go home..

then pushes you and starts a fight.

If I'm pushed, I think I'd still try to defuse, or call the police. But here again, we have no evidence to support a claim that Trayvon was pushed, starting the struggle..

During the fight you realize he's got a gun. Now what, do you do?

Answered this question above. But ultimately there didn't need to be a fight..

You don't get to knock him out to defend yourself? It's a ridiculous assertion,

Doesn't seem the smart move in hinesight, to invoke the right to use deadly force in someone who has a gun..

though just middle of the pack for you (I liked how you said someone other than yourself was the joke of the family!).

Unnecessary comment^.. But typical of Anti-zimmerman mob..

Way to hop around and avoid answering the question!

I answered your question.. Bolded and enlarged for you above..If I was fighting with someone and was in a close quarters struggle, and a gun came out, and I thought he'd actually use it, I'd grab the gun and do my best to take it away, That would be my entire focus. It would be a struggle for the gun. Being older and wiser then Trayvon though, I wouldn't have gotten into the fight to begin with.

Defusing the situation, no matter the situation, is always the best bet. Flight is clearly a better bet than sticking around and getting shot if defusing isn't an option. Taking on a gunman, unarmed, seems like a pretty stupid idea to me..

 

[mad sweeney]

Well, sounds so smart till you fast forward to the outcome right? Maybe someone approaches you with a gun asking questions you try to be polite and answer them. Seems your way is the right way to get shot dead..

You're taking a lot leaps there.. This situation you're describing only resembles the emotion charges supposition we've seen in this thread from the beginning.. So, from my perspective, your question has very little to do with this case.. But I'll answer your question from a hypothetical perspective.

If I'm already in the middle of a fight and a gun comes out, initial reactions would be to either

-Run

-Try to take the gun

-apologize, grovel, and/or plead for your life

If I don't think the guy is gonna shoot, if I think he's just trying to get me off of him, I back off and apologize.. If I think the guy is going to shoot me and we're already in close hand to hand, I'm going to grab the gun. This is all hypothetical of course because we don't know how the situation started. And I likely wouldn't have gotten into a fight with this guy anyways.

You're the self proclaimed discussion genius. Tell me what you would do in this situation:

If I was being approached by a concerned neighbor in the middle of the night? I'd explain myself in a proper manner and go home.

If I'm being chased and I've a head start and/or I'm obviously faster.. I go home and call the police.

If I'm already on the phone with someone, I ask them to 3-way 911 If I'm afraid..

Ultimately, if I'm afraid, the last thing I'm gonna do is stick around and start asking questions..

someone is following you and you're scared to lead him to your house.

Not sure why I'd be scared to lead them to my house if I'm not scared to stick around and confront them.

You confront him to ask why and all he does is start demanding info from you,

Did Trayvon confront Zimmerman? This doesn't jive with most of the previous anti-zimmerman claims..If I do stick around to see whats going on, if he starts asking questions, I answer, defuse the situation, and go home..

then pushes you and starts a fight.

If I'm pushed, I think I'd still try to defuse, or call the police. But here again, we have no evidence to support a claim that Trayvon was pushed, starting the struggle..

During the fight you realize he's got a gun. Now what, do you do?

Answered this question above. But ultimately there didn't need to be a fight..

You don't get to knock him out to defend yourself? It's a ridiculous assertion,

Doesn't seem the smart move in hinesight, to invoke the right to use deadly force in someone who has a gun..

though just middle of the pack for you (I liked how you said someone other than yourself was the joke of the family!).

Unnecessary comment^.. But typical of Anti-zimmerman mob..

Way to hop around and avoid answering the question!

I answered your question.. Bolded and enlarged for you above..If I was fighting with someone and was in a close quarters struggle, and a gun came out, and I thought he'd actually use it, I'd grab the gun and do my best to take it away, That would be my entire focus. It would be a struggle for the gun. Being older and wiser then Trayvon though, I wouldn't have gotten into the fight to begin with.

Defusing the situation, no matter the situation, is always the best bet. Flight is clearly a better bet than sticking around and getting shot if defusing isn't an option. Taking on a gunman, unarmed, seems like a pretty stupid idea to me..

You hopped around the fact that you can disable the guy and tried to inject your Pro-Z endless chants and demands for proof in a hypothetical situation. That's avoiding answering it truthfully.

 

[fatness]

I see that the big hope for Zimmerman being acquitted is no longer guessing at the movements of Zimmerman and Martin using Google Maps, and is now "problems with the affadavit."

 

[fatness]

My cousin does it to himself all the time.. He actually lies so much you can't believe anything he says.. But when he's telling the truth, he over does it.. He gets all dignified "I'm telling the truth!!" Pretty much the joke of the family..

I've had a gun pointed at me a few times, and generally, that changes my mind if I was considering fisticuffs.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

But getting shot may have been an inevitable conclusion for Trayvon if he was on the bad path that it appears he was on..

I'm curious why you make this conclusion.

Using illegal drugs and having drugs at school, Getting suspended from school on numerous occasions in one school year, caught with what appears to be stolen property, involved in organized fighting, defacing school property.. Doesn't seem to be the right path to me. How about you?

I actually got caught for most of those things, and didn't caught for the organized fighting.

Neither was treyvon martin. This is total propaganda by certain people with an agenda to slander

Yes, I'm just making up the drugs and suspensions... Pretty hard to argue against those. Defacing school property.. ok.. propaganda.. whatever.. Kid never did anything wrong in his life..

First of all i was addressing the ''organized fighting'' claim you keep harping on.Next lets just keep the other stuff in perspective shall we? Treyvon was caught with a baggie with traces of pot in it, you make it seem as though he had an ounce on him. Also the alledged stolen property was never ever proven to be stolen so just give that up completely, saying it was stolen over and over doesnt make it so.Yes he was doing what almost every teen i know does , he was tagging property with paint...oh god the horror !!!!!!

Doesn't matter how much illegal drugs he had on him, or in his system at the time of the incident, still illegal drugs...Almost every teen you know defaces public property? Nice pool you're drawing from there bud. OK, similar to how Mad Sweeney says all of this is typical right?

My son has never done any of these things and is 16, maybe he's an outlier then I guess right? The worst any of his friend have done is get reprimanded for talking back to the bus driver.. There is 7 teenagers right there that have never been suspended from school, caught with drugs on them or in their system, been in trouble for defacing property, caught with jewelry that wasn't theirs...

Try all you want, good kids don't get suspended from school 4 times in one year, get caught with illegal drugs, deface school property...

He's obviously been in trouble, and often.. The amount of trouble he's been in, in the last year would be alarming to any parent, yet you suggest this is a fair representation of "most teenagers"... I think you know you're full of dung..

THE HORROR!!!!!!!!

 

[pantherclub]

My cousin does it to himself all the time.. He actually lies so much you can't believe anything he says.. But when he's telling the truth, he over does it.. He gets all dignified "I'm telling the truth!!" Pretty much the joke of the family..

I've had a gun pointed at me a few times, and generally, that changes my mind if I was considering fisticuffs.

I was wondering when someone else would pick up on this.Hustler has to be involved in the most extensive troll in internet history or the most ######ed person with online access.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

You hopped around the fact that you can disable the guy and tried to inject your Pro-Z endless chants and demands for proof in a hypothetical situation. That's avoiding answering it truthfully.

I didn't demand proof of anything..I answered truthfully.. And answered every bit of the question..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

THE HORROR!!!!!!!!

Look! Theirs a Latin American version of Trayvon..Guess that video represents all youth.. Wonder why I never spray painted buildings.. I must be the outlier..Wonder if that guy does that to the walls inside his school?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

My cousin does it to himself all the time.. He actually lies so much you can't believe anything he says.. But when he's telling the truth, he over does it.. He gets all dignified "I'm telling the truth!!" Pretty much the joke of the family..

I've had a gun pointed at me a few times, and generally, that changes my mind if I was considering fisticuffs.

Some of us haven't lived such sheltered lives bud.. Not uncommon for someone to have had a gun pointed at them at some point in their life.. Believe what you want to believe.

 

[fatness]

My cousin does it to himself all the time.. He actually lies so much you can't believe anything he says.. But when he's telling the truth, he over does it.. He gets all dignified "I'm telling the truth!!" Pretty much the joke of the family..

I've had a gun pointed at me a few times, and generally, that changes my mind if I was considering fisticuffs.

Some of us haven't lived such sheltered lives bud.. Not uncommon for someone to have had a gun pointed at them at some point in their life.. Believe what you want to believe.

Shows poor character. Getting guns pulled on you, getting in trouble with the law.

I've been pulled over for no reason before, I've had an officer lie on the stand when giving testimony about my case before.. I saw my brother thrown to the ground face first with handcuffs on and then have an officer kneel on his head and wrench his arms in the air, just because he wouldn't tell them what they wanted..

My cousin was maced and beaten by 4 officers in an incident that started because he didn't step out of the way when a couple officers were walking in the opposite direction down the sidewalk..

Getting shot may be an inevitable conclusion for you if you're on the bad path that it appears you are on.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

My cousin does it to himself all the time.. He actually lies so much you can't believe anything he says.. But when he's telling the truth, he over does it.. He gets all dignified "I'm telling the truth!!" Pretty much the joke of the family..

I've had a gun pointed at me a few times, and generally, that changes my mind if I was considering fisticuffs.

Some of us haven't lived such sheltered lives bud.. Not uncommon for someone to have had a gun pointed at them at some point in their life.. Believe what you want to believe.

Shows poor character. Getting guns pulled on you, getting in trouble with the law.

I've been pulled over for no reason before, I've had an officer lie on the stand when giving testimony about my case before.. I saw my brother thrown to the ground face first with handcuffs on and then have an officer kneel on his head and wrench his arms in the air, just because he wouldn't tell them what they wanted..

My cousin was maced and beaten by 4 officers in an incident that started because he didn't step out of the way when a couple officers were walking in the opposite direction down the sidewalk..

Getting shot may be an inevitable conclusion for you if you're on the bad path that it appears you are on.

If you continue searching, you'll find that I admitted being on a bad path as a youth, and that the birth of my oldest is pretty much what changed things for me..Want to get back on topic now?

 

[Zow]

Ninny: if the officer is present you damn well bet I cross examine him.

 

[Zow]

And hustler, I have not at all carried the oppositions viewpoint. But just because I'm not contrarian to the view that Zimmerman isn't clearly guilty, doesn't mean I blindly am going to support your crazy posts.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

THE HORROR!!!!!!!!

they have websites dedicated to teaching people how to tag trains ...my point is just because we are older and dont get it doesnt mean its not common practice for todays youth.Im not condoning it im just pointing out its normal for these kids.http://www.trainwriters.com/graffiti_book.htm

 

[Carolina Hustler]

And hustler, I have not at all carried the oppositions viewpoint. But just because I'm not contrarian to the view that Zimmerman isn't clearly guilty, doesn't mean I blindly am going to support your crazy posts.

To my recollection, I've never asked you too support my posts. But comparing my posts here to Texanfans is rather silly..

 

[TexanFan02]

Smarter person than me: if the officer is present you damn well bet I cross examine him.

BS. How often does this happen? I'm going to bet on never.

 

[Christo]

Smarter person than me: if the officer is present you damn well bet I cross examine him.

BS. How often does this happen? I'm going to bet on never.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

THE HORROR!!!!!!!!

I could find a website dedicated to building model trains..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Smarter person than me: if the officer is present you damn well bet I cross examine him.

BS. How often does this happen? I'm going to bet on never.

Have you ever been in a court room?

 

[TexanFan02]

Smarter person than me: if the officer is present you damn well bet I cross examine him.

BS. How often does this happen? I'm going to bet on never.

Need more smileys. CH is posting in bulk. And you know it's BS too, I would bet money that Woz has never cross examined anyone in a bond hearing. Because it's a bond hearing.

 

[pantherclub]

My cousin does it to himself all the time.. He actually lies so much you can't believe anything he says.. But when he's telling the truth, he over does it.. He gets all dignified "I'm telling the truth!!" Pretty much the joke of the family..

I've had a gun pointed at me a few times, and generally, that changes my mind if I was considering fisticuffs.

Some of us haven't lived such sheltered lives bud.. Not uncommon for someone to have had a gun pointed at them at some point in their life.. Believe what you want to believe.

Shows poor character. Getting guns pulled on you, getting in trouble with the law.

I've been pulled over for no reason before, I've had an officer lie on the stand when giving testimony about my case before.. I saw my brother thrown to the ground face first with handcuffs on and then have an officer kneel on his head and wrench his arms in the air, just because he wouldn't tell them what they wanted..

My cousin was maced and beaten by 4 officers in an incident that started because he didn't step out of the way when a couple officers were walking in the opposite direction down the sidewalk..

Getting shot may be an inevitable conclusion for you if you're on the bad path that it appears you are on.

Hustler just stop dude. You are the definition of comedy at this point

 

[Christo]

Smarter person than me: if the officer is present you damn well bet I cross examine him.

BS. How often does this happen? I'm going to bet on never.

Need more smileys. CH is posting in bulk. And you know it's BS too, I would bet money that Woz has never cross examined anyone in a bond hearing. Because it's a bond hearing.

TexanFan02: Expert Bond Hearing Guy!

Oops, forgot the

 

[BustedKnuckles]

THE HORROR!!!!!!!!

well would you see them as thugs ?

 

[pantherclub]

Which poster said this:

People who don't get in fights with complete strangers "all the damn time" are now introverts... Lol.. And here I was thinking we were just smarter and more well mannered..

and then this

I've had a gun pointed at me a few times, and generally, that changes my mind if I was considering fisticuffs.. Usually when a gun comes out, it's either for show, or to detain.. Rarely does the gunman want to shoot.. At least that's been my experience..You want to be a bad ###? You want me to ##### up? Point a gun at me.. You can walk away feeling like a tough guy and I get to live.. Fair trade if you ask me.. I'll call the police later once I'm safe and out of range..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

THE HORROR!!!!!!!!

Depends on how you view model train building... The point was that it's not "most" teenagers doing it.. Some, sure, but not most..

 

[BustedKnuckles]

THE HORROR!!!!!!!!

im guessing it more than just some.Facts and FAQs

Help the City of Houston in

wiping out graffiti.

•It costs America more than $8 billion per year just to clean up graffiti.

•Immediate removal - within 24-48 hours - is the key to successful graffiti prevention.

•There are four types of graffiti – tagging, satanic/hate, gang, and generic (non-threatening messages like "Bobby loves Suzy" or "Class of 2000"). Houston mainly deals with gang and tagging graffiti. Tagging graffiti is more ornate while gang graffiti uses symbols.

•It is a common misperception that most graffiti is done by gangs when in fact gangs are responsible for less than 10% of graffiti.

•Graffiti vandals represent every social, ethnic and economic background. Suburban males commit approximately 50% of graffiti vandalism from pre-teen to early 20s.

•The average age of the arrested graffiti vandal is 17-18, with an overall broad range of 8-54. •Community paintbrush murals are rarely defaced by graffiti and instill a sense of pride among those who live nearby.

•There are four primary motivating factors for graffiti vandalism: fame, rebellion, self-expression, and power.

•Getting the media to publish photos and videotape of graffiti is often the ultimate fame for graffiti vandals.

Graffiti vandalism is done by all races, creeds, colors, sexes, and by persons in every socioeconomic category.

 

[Witz]

THE HORROR!!!!!!!!

at both of you....Is this really what this thread has devolved to?

 

[TexanFan02]

Smarter person than me: if the officer is present you damn well bet I cross examine him.

BS. How often does this happen? I'm going to bet on never.

Need more smileys. CH is posting in bulk. And you know it's BS too, I would bet money that Woz has never cross examined anyone in a bond hearing. Because it's a bond hearing.

TexanFan02: Expert Bond Hearing Guy!

Oops, forgot the

I see you've figured out the command. Big step up for your add nothing/answer nothing/deflect schtick. I'll be using a few of my own at your posts in the future.

 

[fatness]

My cousin does it to himself all the time.. He actually lies so much you can't believe anything he says.. But when he's telling the truth, he over does it.. He gets all dignified "I'm telling the truth!!" Pretty much the joke of the family..

I've had a gun pointed at me a few times, and generally, that changes my mind if I was considering fisticuffs.

Some of us haven't lived such sheltered lives bud.. Not uncommon for someone to have had a gun pointed at them at some point in their life.. Believe what you want to believe.

Shows poor character. Getting guns pulled on you, getting in trouble with the law.

I've been pulled over for no reason before, I've had an officer lie on the stand when giving testimony about my case before.. I saw my brother thrown to the ground face first with handcuffs on and then have an officer kneel on his head and wrench his arms in the air, just because he wouldn't tell them what they wanted..

My cousin was maced and beaten by 4 officers in an incident that started because he didn't step out of the way when a couple officers were walking in the opposite direction down the sidewalk..

Getting shot may be an inevitable conclusion for you if you're on the bad path that it appears you are on.

If you continue searching, you'll find that I admitted being on a bad path as a youth, and that the birth of my oldest is pretty much what changed things for me..

If someone had followed, shot, and killed you when you were on this "bad path", you'd at least have had the peace that comes from knowing there was no proof they had done anything wrong.