Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (3 Viewers)

[Jojo the circus boy]

If his hands are up by his face, how does he reach the gun before Martin whose hands were already working down Z's chest? If Martin saw the gun as Z states, I don't see how he would not reach it first and I'm sure this is something the prosecution would jump on.

Geometry...and this isn't a hand race at a stationary object - Zimmerman moved to his side so he could breathe, once a hand comes off his mouth its not crazy to think he shifted his weight again. Zimmerman obviously knows where the gun is at all times, what actions are necessary to unholster it and can do this blindfolded. Martin needs to adjust his position, keep his balance, look for where the gun is, look to see how it is holstered, keep his other hand on Zimmermans mouth, etc...

Except for the fact that Z states that Martin already knew where the gun was. Must have missed the statement about Z practicing removing his gun while blindfolded. Be so kind as to post the link on this.

Have you ever pissed in the dark? Do you need a flashlight to find your piss pump or take your belt off?

WHOOSH..... My point isn't that Z didn't know where it was. My point was that Z stated that his hands were up by his head while Martin's hands were by Z's chest heading down when Z indicates that Martin was going for his gun. I was inferring that based on this, Martin saw the gun and was reaching for it (based on Z's statement). Martin only had to move from chest to hip. Z had to move from head to hip (a much more awkward movement IMO). The defense will bring this up to raise doubts about Z's veracity. In all likelihood, it could as easily be a mistatement by Z and his hands could have been lower or, Martin may not have actually seen the gun (which is belied by the "you're gonna die" statement though.

My point is that it is just a really weak argument. Yes there is a difference between me instinctively reaching for my gun compared to you trying to locate the exact location in the dark while I am on the ground moving my body while I have my hands on your hands trying to prevent you from suffocating me. You are really really reaching here if you think this is a strong argument to make. Even so, let's give you the benefit of the doubt, so you are assuming that Zimmerman is fabricating his story that he was not lying on his back and that Martin did not reach for his weapon, what is your version of the story?!? The grass stains, eye witness testimony and forensic evidence all support Zimmerman's story. If your whole case hinges on trying to catch Zimmerman in a lie with your "fixed space geometry argument" you are setting yourself up for great disappointment.TL;DR: You cannot prove that Zimmerman lied about Martin reaching for his gun.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

That Zimmerman, man he is one creative liar. I'm curious what the kill-da-zimmy crowd points out as definite lies (in their minds) from Zimmerman's statements documented in the link below. I don't care if what you think can be proven or not, I'm just curious what the most blatant lies are in your opinion of this account he gives:http://www.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/1g012f/zimmerman_interrogationpolygraph_video/

Watching this it certainly doesn't help the case for CWP's. if zimmy didn't have a gun then this likely never would've been more than a little scuffle that the nieghbors could've quickly cleared up. According to zimmy, Martin didn't "threaten to kill him" until he saw his gun.

You don't consider suffocating as trying to kill someone? What do you mean by "clear up"? Do you expect the neighbors to break up the fight? Nobody came to his aid when he was screaming for help, nobody wanted to get involved outside of calling 911.

I felt like I was going to lose consciousness. I started really screaming for help. He covered my nose with one hand and my mouth with the other and he told me to shut the #### up again. I couldn't breathe -- I was suffocating. I tried to shift so my head was not on the concrete anymore. My jacket and shirt lifted as I moved and exposed my firearm. He saw it and said, "You're going to die tonight mother####er." He took his hand off my mouth and I felt it slide down my chest.I fired one shot. He said, "You got me" or something similar. Ended up on top of him, straddling him.

I find it astounding that on one hand zimmy claims hes being suffocated ,yet on the other hand we have someone on a 911 call screaming uninterrupted for quite some time ...which is it? Dont say both...in this case you cant have your cake and eat it too.

This is why i dont believe zimmys story as he states it . We all know that they had a confrontation,and we all know that only one of the combatants can tell a story. The guy who lived can say whatever he wants...he can add and embellish to come off as much of an innocent victim as he pleases. After taking in all the evidence that we know about , i believe that there are more than a few things that zimmy has either left out or down right changed to benefit him.

I cant wait to hear zimmy testify,thats gonna be a show and a half.

From his testimony, I believe he stated that he was screaming and then had his face/mouth covered. His face/mouth wasn't covered through the whole episode, only at one/certain point(s).

id like a link to that...ive never seen it....zimmy had no idea his screams were being recorded (if they were even his and not treys)

 

[BustedKnuckles]

But thats on Zimmerman who should have stayed in his car, with his gun.

It's pretty clear you are afraid of guns. People that have a ccw license are not a threat to you or society, quite the contrary. There are plenty of statistics that back this up.Dispatch asked him which direction Martin was running so he had every right to leave his vehicle.

Dispatch: He's running? Which way is he running?

zimm ''Into the dark behind some buildings....maybe i should just stay in my car and wait for the cops,following him could be dangerous...oh wait....i have a gun...what am I worried about''

Neither of which (following someone with or without gun) is against the law.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Neither of which (following someone with or without gun) is against the law.

Yes, I'm sure the good folk of Florida would be just fine if black men with guns started following them around for no reason.Zimm was just carrying on an old southern tradition. Harrass the powerless until you provoke them, then when they respond to the provocation use the full power of the law to make sure they know their place in the pecking order.Anyone know if SYG allows for lynching if there's no gun handy?

 

[Lutherman2112]

Neither of which (following someone with or without gun) is against the law.

Yes, I'm sure the good folk of Florida would be just fine if black men with guns started following them around for no reason.Zimm was just carrying on an old southern tradition. Harrass the powerless until you provoke them, then when they respond to the provocation use the full power of the law to make sure they know their place in the pecking order.Anyone know if SYG allows for lynching if there's no gun handy?

 

[omally]

Neither of which (following someone with or without gun) is against the law.

Yes, I'm sure the good folk of Florida would be just fine if black men with guns started following them around for no reason.Zimm was just carrying on an old southern tradition. Harrass the powerless until you provoke them, then when they respond to the provocation use the full power of the law to make sure they know their place in the pecking order.Anyone know if SYG allows for lynching if there's no gun handy?

It's a terrible posting. It is not a southern tradition, and as a southerner, I find the comment offensive and ignorant.

 

[Mr Two Cents]

Neither of which (following someone with or without gun) is against the law.

Yes, I'm sure the good folk of Florida would be just fine if black men with guns started following them around for no reason.Zimm was just carrying on an old southern tradition. Harrass the powerless until you provoke them, then when they respond to the provocation use the full power of the law to make sure they know their place in the pecking order.Anyone know if SYG allows for lynching if there's no gun handy?

When did Mexicans start lynching blacks. Looks more to me that blacks are trying to lynch a Mexican.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Neither of which (following someone with or without gun) is against the law.

Yes, I'm sure the good folk of Florida would be just fine if black men with guns started following them around for no reason.Zimm was just carrying on an old southern tradition. Harrass the powerless until you provoke them, then when they respond to the provocation use the full power of the law to make sure they know their place in the pecking order.Anyone know if SYG allows for lynching if there's no gun handy?

 

[Runningman]

Neither of which (following someone with or without gun) is against the law.

Yes, I'm sure the good folk of Florida would be just fine if black men with guns started following them around for no reason.Zimm was just carrying on an old southern tradition. Harrass the powerless until you provoke them, then when they respond to the provocation use the full power of the law to make sure they know their place in the pecking order.Anyone know if SYG allows for lynching if there's no gun handy?

When did Mexicans start lynching blacks. Looks more to me that blacks are trying to lynch a Mexican.

 

[kentric]

That Zimmerman, man he is one creative liar. I'm curious what the kill-da-zimmy crowd points out as definite lies (in their minds) from Zimmerman's statements documented in the link below. I don't care if what you think can be proven or not, I'm just curious what the most blatant lies are in your opinion of this account he gives:http://www.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/1g012f/zimmerman_interrogationpolygraph_video/

Watching this it certainly doesn't help the case for CWP's. if zimmy didn't have a gun then this likely never would've been more than a little scuffle that the nieghbors could've quickly cleared up. According to zimmy, Martin didn't "threaten to kill him" until he saw his gun.

You don't consider suffocating as trying to kill someone? What do you mean by "clear up"? Do you expect the neighbors to break up the fight? Nobody came to his aid when he was screaming for help, nobody wanted to get involved outside of calling 911.

I felt like I was going to lose consciousness. I started really screaming for help. He covered my nose with one hand and my mouth with the other and he told me to shut the #### up again. I couldn't breathe -- I was suffocating. I tried to shift so my head was not on the concrete anymore. My jacket and shirt lifted as I moved and exposed my firearm. He saw it and said, "You're going to die tonight mother####er." He took his hand off my mouth and I felt it slide down my chest.I fired one shot. He said, "You got me" or something similar. Ended up on top of him, straddling him.

I find it astounding that on one hand zimmy claims hes being suffocated ,yet on the other hand we have someone on a 911 call screaming uninterrupted for quite some time ...which is it? Dont say both...in this case you cant have your cake and eat it too.

This is why i dont believe zimmys story as he states it . We all know that they had a confrontation,and we all know that only one of the combatants can tell a story. The guy who lived can say whatever he wants...he can add and embellish to come off as much of an innocent victim as he pleases. After taking in all the evidence that we know about , i believe that there are more than a few things that zimmy has either left out or down right changed to benefit him.

I cant wait to hear zimmy testify,thats gonna be a show and a half.

From his testimony, I believe he stated that he was screaming and then had his face/mouth covered. His face/mouth wasn't covered through the whole episode, only at one/certain point(s).

id like a link to that...ive never seen it....zimmy had no idea his screams were being recorded (if they were even his and not treys)

Saw it from a link posted on Friday I believe. Z said he was yelling "help". Indicated that someone saw what was happening, he asked the person for help and the person said he would call 911.

 

[kentric]

If his hands are up by his face, how does he reach the gun before Martin whose hands were already working down Z's chest? If Martin saw the gun as Z states, I don't see how he would not reach it first and I'm sure this is something the prosecution would jump on.

Geometry...and this isn't a hand race at a stationary object - Zimmerman moved to his side so he could breathe, once a hand comes off his mouth its not crazy to think he shifted his weight again. Zimmerman obviously knows where the gun is at all times, what actions are necessary to unholster it and can do this blindfolded. Martin needs to adjust his position, keep his balance, look for where the gun is, look to see how it is holstered, keep his other hand on Zimmermans mouth, etc...

Except for the fact that Z states that Martin already knew where the gun was. Must have missed the statement about Z practicing removing his gun while blindfolded. Be so kind as to post the link on this.

Have you ever pissed in the dark? Do you need a flashlight to find your piss pump or take your belt off?

WHOOSH..... My point isn't that Z didn't know where it was. My point was that Z stated that his hands were up by his head while Martin's hands were by Z's chest heading down when Z indicates that Martin was going for his gun. I was inferring that based on this, Martin saw the gun and was reaching for it (based on Z's statement). Martin only had to move from chest to hip. Z had to move from head to hip (a much more awkward movement IMO). The defense will bring this up to raise doubts about Z's veracity. In all likelihood, it could as easily be a mistatement by Z and his hands could have been lower or, Martin may not have actually seen the gun (which is belied by the "you're gonna die" statement though.

My point is that it is just a really weak argument. Yes there is a difference between me instinctively reaching for my gun compared to you trying to locate the exact location in the dark while I am on the ground moving my body while I have my hands on your hands trying to prevent you from suffocating me. You are really really reaching here if you think this is a strong argument to make. Even so, let's give you the benefit of the doubt, so you are assuming that Zimmerman is fabricating his story that he was not lying on his back and that Martin did not reach for his weapon, what is your version of the story?!? The grass stains, eye witness testimony and forensic evidence all support Zimmerman's story. If your whole case hinges on trying to catch Zimmerman in a lie with your "fixed space geometry argument" you are setting yourself up for great disappointment.TL;DR: You cannot prove that Zimmerman lied about Martin reaching for his gun.

I'm not saying the Prosecution will be resting their case on this. I am however sure that it is something they will bring up to raise doubts about Z's story. Not sure where you get that I say Z was lying about laying on his back. I'm pretty sure the grass stains and the eyewitness account make that close to conclusive in my mind.

 

[jon_mx]

How many thousands of posts was it before the Martin-disciples started acknowledging that it was Martin who was on top of Zimmerman kicking his ###. For so long there were many insisting that it was Zimmerman on top kicking Martin's ### and Martin screaming on the tape.

 

[jon_mx]

Well if you know you are innocent and know there is no evidence against you, you take your chances. What can they possibly offer him, 5 years? I would take a 10% chance of being convicted and looking at a maximum of 20 years versus taking a 100% shot at doing 5 years.

What case are we talking about now?

This one. There is not one piece of evidence revealed to date which shows Zimmerman murdered Treyvon.

You've never heard the phrase "the smoking gun" have you.

I am betting there isn't one.

I find this position very strange. Clearly the dude shot the victim, of that there is no doubt. The question becomes whether or not it was justified under the law. It seems that is going to be very hard to show, since there is tape of zimmerman telling 911 that he is following the person, and then is told to "not do that"; to which he replies "okay". That would seem to mitigate any attempt to show self-defense or even the stand your ground law, as they can argue even IF treyvon turned on him, his following treyvon AFTER being told not to would sure seem to provide treyvon with reasonable cause to defend himself, i.e., attack the person he could easily think is stalking him; which he in fact was.Again, I will be shocked if this ever sees a courtroom and I am taking bets for those that want to put their money where their mouth is. My money stays on man 2, 5-10 (out in 3).

Watching someone in public does not rise to stalking. I never heard of someone getting thrown in jail for following someone for a few minutes. If someone is following you, that does not give you the right to kick their ###. $100 says no plea.

Seems like there was no plea, no?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

This has to rank as one of the weakest cases ever. There is zero to suggest this is anything other than self-defense. The best Tim can come up with is why did Zimmerman only fire one shot. Seriously. This case rest purely on speculative bullcrap.

Would be much the same had Trayvon killed Zimmerman. He would be claiming stand your ground defense.But there is only one person (adult) who chased down the other person (minor) with a loaded gun.

Let's stop the ridiculous spin, shall we? Are we really going to pretend not to know all the facts in making such asinine statements?

What spin?

.....The part where you forget to mention it was in all likelihood Martin who hid and approached Zimmerman and proceeded to kick is ###. Your portrayal of events is pure one-sided spin.

Its not likely at all. Though if he felt cornered and threatend, its possible once the distance had been closed..But thats on Zimmerman who should have stayed in his car, with his gun.This entire episode never happens if Zimmerman doesnt go after Martin. But everyone knows he did.

The entire episode never happens if Martin proceeds to go home either. But everyone knows he did not.

He was headed home until he had Zimmerman track him down. Zimmerman was out looking for trouble, and found it.

 

[jon_mx]

This has to rank as one of the weakest cases ever. There is zero to suggest this is anything other than self-defense. The best Tim can come up with is why did Zimmerman only fire one shot. Seriously. This case rest purely on speculative bullcrap.

Would be much the same had Trayvon killed Zimmerman. He would be claiming stand your ground defense.But there is only one person (adult) who chased down the other person (minor) with a loaded gun.

Let's stop the ridiculous spin, shall we? Are we really going to pretend not to know all the facts in making such asinine statements?

What spin?

.....The part where you forget to mention it was in all likelihood Martin who hid and approached Zimmerman and proceeded to kick is ###. Your portrayal of events is pure one-sided spin.

Its not likely at all. Though if he felt cornered and threatend, its possible once the distance had been closed..But thats on Zimmerman who should have stayed in his car, with his gun.This entire episode never happens if Zimmerman doesnt go after Martin. But everyone knows he did.

The entire episode never happens if Martin proceeds to go home either. But everyone knows he did not.

He was headed home until he had Zimmerman track him down. Zimmerman was out looking for trouble, and found it.

Your ability to find no fault with Martin's actions is truly amazing.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

This has to rank as one of the weakest cases ever. There is zero to suggest this is anything other than self-defense. The best Tim can come up with is why did Zimmerman only fire one shot. Seriously. This case rest purely on speculative bullcrap.

Would be much the same had Trayvon killed Zimmerman. He would be claiming stand your ground defense.But there is only one person (adult) who chased down the other person (minor) with a loaded gun.

Let's stop the ridiculous spin, shall we? Are we really going to pretend not to know all the facts in making such asinine statements?

What spin?

.....The part where you forget to mention it was in all likelihood Martin who hid and approached Zimmerman and proceeded to kick is ###. Your portrayal of events is pure one-sided spin.

Its not likely at all. Though if he felt cornered and threatend, its possible once the distance had been closed..But thats on Zimmerman who should have stayed in his car, with his gun.This entire episode never happens if Zimmerman doesnt go after Martin. But everyone knows he did.

The entire episode never happens if Martin proceeds to go home either. But everyone knows he did not.

He was headed home until he had Zimmerman track him down. Zimmerman was out looking for trouble, and found it.

Your ability to find no fault with Martin's actions is truly amazing.

Because Trayvon was out at nite, cruising the neighborhood, looking for trouble, with a gun, tracking down strangers (who are just walking home)? Oh yeah, and likely scaring the ever living bejeesus out of them.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

That Zimmerman, man he is one creative liar. I'm curious what the kill-da-zimmy crowd points out as definite lies (in their minds) from Zimmerman's statements documented in the link below. I don't care if what you think can be proven or not, I'm just curious what the most blatant lies are in your opinion of this account he gives:http://www.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/1g012f/zimmerman_interrogationpolygraph_video/

Watching this it certainly doesn't help the case for CWP's. if zimmy didn't have a gun then this likely never would've been more than a little scuffle that the nieghbors could've quickly cleared up. According to zimmy, Martin didn't "threaten to kill him" until he saw his gun.

You don't consider suffocating as trying to kill someone? What do you mean by "clear up"? Do you expect the neighbors to break up the fight? Nobody came to his aid when he was screaming for help, nobody wanted to get involved outside of calling 911.

I felt like I was going to lose consciousness. I started really screaming for help. He covered my nose with one hand and my mouth with the other and he told me to shut the #### up again. I couldn't breathe -- I was suffocating. I tried to shift so my head was not on the concrete anymore. My jacket and shirt lifted as I moved and exposed my firearm. He saw it and said, "You're going to die tonight mother####er." He took his hand off my mouth and I felt it slide down my chest.I fired one shot. He said, "You got me" or something similar. Ended up on top of him, straddling him.

I find it astounding that on one hand zimmy claims hes being suffocated ,yet on the other hand we have someone on a 911 call screaming uninterrupted for quite some time ...which is it? Dont say both...in this case you cant have your cake and eat it too.

This is why i dont believe zimmys story as he states it . We all know that they had a confrontation,and we all know that only one of the combatants can tell a story. The guy who lived can say whatever he wants...he can add and embellish to come off as much of an innocent victim as he pleases. After taking in all the evidence that we know about , i believe that there are more than a few things that zimmy has either left out or down right changed to benefit him.

I cant wait to hear zimmy testify,thats gonna be a show and a half.

From his testimony, I believe he stated that he was screaming and then had his face/mouth covered. His face/mouth wasn't covered through the whole episode, only at one/certain point(s).

id like a link to that...ive never seen it....zimmy had no idea his screams were being recorded (if they were even his and not treys)

Saw it from a link posted on Friday I believe. Z said he was yelling "help". Indicated that someone saw what was happening, he asked the person for help and the person said he would call 911.

ok...and that flies in the face of reason when hearing the 911 recording of someone screaming uninterrupted...if trey was truly had his hands all over zimms mouth the screams would have been muffled....my point is whether or not he was screaming i think he ''added'' the hands over the mouth part and probably the stuff he claims trey was saying as they were fighting. Ive been in court many many times for assault and battery and ive sat there listening to people lie and add stuff about what actually happened . If they didnt lie the case would been dropped in minutes.I could go into detail as to what im saying but its not needed. People lie when they are in trouble ....thats human nature,goes all the way back to when we are kids.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

That Martin was allowed to defend himself because Zimmerman was following him.

The defense against being followed is running home or calling the police..

I thought it was to Stand Your Ground

Stand your ground only applies if you are defending yourself against the imminent use of unlawful force.

Got it. So you need to wait until the other guy punches you first. Then you can shoot him, right?

No, you just need to shoot him dead then you can make-up just about any story you want since the other guy is, well, dead.

I think this was the height of BST's ignorance in this thread.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

ok...and that flies in the face of reason when hearing the 911 recording of someone screaming uninterrupted...if trey was truly had his hands all over zimms mouth the screams would have been muffled....my point is whether or not he was screaming i think he ''added'' the hands over the mouth part and probably the stuff he claims trey was saying as they were fighting. Ive been in court many many times for assault and battery and ive sat there listening to people lie and add stuff about what actually happened . If they didnt lie the case would been dropped in minutes.I could go into detail as to what im saying but its not needed. People lie when they are in trouble ....thats human nature,goes all the way back to when we are kids.

If it was Martin screaming, why was he screaming? It's human nature not to scream repeatedly for help when someone is pointing a gun at you. If I'm pointing a gun at you and you start screaming for over a minute, don't you think that would give me pause to shoot you since there were likely many witnesses that heard you screaming? I have already called the cops and I have a gun on you in your narrative of the story. Why don't I just wait for police to arrive? Or do you seriously believe Zimmerman is on his back getting pounded by Martin all the while Martin is screaming for help?!? Do you think he is screaming for help because Zimmerman is pointing a gun at him while he is on the ground?I get it you think you can catch Zimmerman in a lie, that he was not the one screaming for help. Let's assume it is inconclusive that it was Zimmerman screaming for help, which is the direction this case is going, now please explain to us how this fits into your narrative of the story. You realize if the prosecution wants any hope of convincing the jury that Martin was murdered they need to deliver a convincing narrative right?

 

[Witz]

Zimmerman's nose wounds look as if he was nailed in the face by the recoil of his gun.

lol...

PCP

toast

Who posted in: Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch

Member name Posts Carolina Hustler 1784

This schtick is pretty old at this point.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

So far the two leading arguments espousing Zimmerman's guilt from the kill-day-zimmy crowd today seem to be:1) There is no dna/finger prints from Martin on Zimmerman's gun even though Zimmerman never states that Martin touched it2) Zimmerman didn't have a broken noseSeems like a pretty huge gap to get to:Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought. Malice can be expressed (intent to kill) or implied. Implied malice is proven by acts that involve reckless indifference to human life* or in a death that occurs during the commission of certain felonies (the felony murder rule).Second degree murder is a murder that is not premeditated or planned in advance.

I thought it was his 3) wanton disregard for rules and authority. Which coincides withe bolded above. Zimmerman violated the central tenets of Neighborhood Watch by following Martin, confronting him and carrying a concealed weapon.

You are the first person to mention that today, everyone else is hellbent on proving his nose wasn't broken or that Martin's finger prints/dna were not on the gun which Zimmerman never stated Martin touched.So that "stuff" you mentioned, is any of it illegal?The parts that are illegal, what evidence does the prosecution have to support the illegal actions that Zimmerman committed.Also this is the first I'm hearing that Zimmerman was on Neighborhood Watch duty that night, do you have something to back that up?

No, but circumstantial evidence can and does mount up. After all we are talking about what his "intent" was. Which will be laid before the jury to make a determination.

Interesting, kind of like the sum of all of Martin's past could mount up to support that he was casing houses on his way back from 7-11 as reported by Zimmerman, that Martin has a past of being caught with stolen items found in his backpack with burglary tools for items that were stolen within blocks of his school, similarly other recent history of him belonging to a fight club, refereeing fights, supporting his aggressive behavior the night he was killed.

 

[timschochet]

So far the two leading arguments espousing Zimmerman's guilt from the kill-day-zimmy crowd today seem to be:1) There is no dna/finger prints from Martin on Zimmerman's gun even though Zimmerman never states that Martin touched it2) Zimmerman didn't have a broken noseSeems like a pretty huge gap to get to:Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought. Malice can be expressed (intent to kill) or implied. Implied malice is proven by acts that involve reckless indifference to human life* or in a death that occurs during the commission of certain felonies (the felony murder rule).Second degree murder is a murder that is not premeditated or planned in advance.

I thought it was his 3) wanton disregard for rules and authority. Which coincides withe bolded above. Zimmerman violated the central tenets of Neighborhood Watch by following Martin, confronting him and carrying a concealed weapon.

You are the first person to mention that today, everyone else is hellbent on proving his nose wasn't broken or that Martin's finger prints/dna were not on the gun which Zimmerman never stated Martin touched.So that "stuff" you mentioned, is any of it illegal?The parts that are illegal, what evidence does the prosecution have to support the illegal actions that Zimmerman committed.Also this is the first I'm hearing that Zimmerman was on Neighborhood Watch duty that night, do you have something to back that up?

No, but circumstantial evidence can and does mount up. After all we are talking about what his "intent" was. Which will be laid before the jury to make a determination.

Interesting, kind of like the sum of all of Martin's past could mount up to support that he was casing houses on his way back from 7-11 as reported by Zimmerman, that Martin has a past of being caught with stolen items found in his backpack with burglary tools for items that were stolen within blocks of his school, similarly other recent history of him belonging to a fight club, refereeing fights, supporting his aggressive behavior the night he was killed.

You didn't mention the PCP this time aroumd. I'm disappointed in you.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

So far the two leading arguments espousing Zimmerman's guilt from the kill-day-zimmy crowd today seem to be:1) There is no dna/finger prints from Martin on Zimmerman's gun even though Zimmerman never states that Martin touched it2) Zimmerman didn't have a broken noseSeems like a pretty huge gap to get to:Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought. Malice can be expressed (intent to kill) or implied. Implied malice is proven by acts that involve reckless indifference to human life* or in a death that occurs during the commission of certain felonies (the felony murder rule).Second degree murder is a murder that is not premeditated or planned in advance.

I thought it was his 3) wanton disregard for rules and authority. Which coincides withe bolded above. Zimmerman violated the central tenets of Neighborhood Watch by following Martin, confronting him and carrying a concealed weapon.

You are the first person to mention that today, everyone else is hellbent on proving his nose wasn't broken or that Martin's finger prints/dna were not on the gun which Zimmerman never stated Martin touched.So that "stuff" you mentioned, is any of it illegal?The parts that are illegal, what evidence does the prosecution have to support the illegal actions that Zimmerman committed.Also this is the first I'm hearing that Zimmerman was on Neighborhood Watch duty that night, do you have something to back that up?

No, but circumstantial evidence can and does mount up. After all we are talking about what his "intent" was. Which will be laid before the jury to make a determination.

Interesting, kind of like the sum of all of Martin's past could mount up to support that he was casing houses on his way back from 7-11 as reported by Zimmerman, that Martin has a past of being caught with stolen items found in his backpack with burglary tools for items that were stolen within blocks of his school, similarly other recent history of him belonging to a fight club, refereeing fights, supporting his aggressive behavior the night he was killed.

You didn't mention the PCP this time aroumd. I'm disappointed in you.

Nice to see you agreed with everything else I posted

 

[kentric]

ok...and that flies in the face of reason when hearing the 911 recording of someone screaming uninterrupted...if trey was truly had his hands all over zimms mouth the screams would have been muffled....my point is whether or not he was screaming i think he ''added'' the hands over the mouth part and probably the stuff he claims trey was saying as they were fighting. Ive been in court many many times for assault and battery and ive sat there listening to people lie and add stuff about what actually happened . If they didnt lie the case would been dropped in minutes.I could go into detail as to what im saying but its not needed. People lie when they are in trouble ....thats human nature,goes all the way back to when we are kids.

If it was Martin screaming, why was he screaming? It's human nature not to scream repeatedly for help when someone is pointing a gun at you. If I'm pointing a gun at you and you start screaming for over a minute, don't you think that would give me pause to shoot you since there were likely many witnesses that heard you screaming? I have already called the cops and I have a gun on you in your narrative of the story. Why don't I just wait for police to arrive? Or do you seriously believe Zimmerman is on his back getting pounded by Martin all the while Martin is screaming for help?!? Do you think he is screaming for help because Zimmerman is pointing a gun at him while he is on the ground?I get it you think you can catch Zimmerman in a lie, that he was not the one screaming for help. Let's assume it is inconclusive that it was Zimmerman screaming for help, which is the direction this case is going, now please explain to us how this fits into your narrative of the story. You realize if the prosecution wants any hope of convincing the jury that Martin was murdered they need to deliver a convincing narrative right?

You're not suggesting that Z held a gun on Martin for over a minute are you? Although I do agree with you that when someone is on top of another person giving them a smackdown that it is normally the smackee calling for help than the smacker.

 

[kentric]

ok...and that flies in the face of reason when hearing the 911 recording of someone screaming uninterrupted...if trey was truly had his hands all over zimms mouth the screams would have been muffled....my point is whether or not he was screaming i think he ''added'' the hands over the mouth part and probably the stuff he claims trey was saying as they were fighting. Ive been in court many many times for assault and battery and ive sat there listening to people lie and add stuff about what actually happened . If they didnt lie the case would been dropped in minutes.I could go into detail as to what im saying but its not needed. People lie when they are in trouble ....thats human nature,goes all the way back to when we are kids.

Z didn't say Martin's hands were over Z's mouth the whole time. That being said, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out that Z embellished/added aspects of his story (including the death threat and Martin trying to suffocate him).

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Question for you CWP supporters and Zimmy defenders. Do you feel like this was a "good kill?" Regardless of who started the fight, do you feel like this is just expected to happen when you're allowed to carry a handgun out in public? Do you have any remorse that your fantasy of being a hero and shooting the bad guy wasnt actually the case and you instead shot a teenage boy coming back with some candy?To be honest this is what angers me the most. You Zimmy defenders show no remorse. It's pretty disgusting actually. It's almost like CWP supporters are so eager for a "good kill" that they'll demonize Martin just to prove a point.

Absolutely zero remorse.If we are to believe everything Zimmerman has said to be true he did everything right. He was looking out for his neighborhood, he called it in and was monitoring Martin's whereabouts.Let me flip this around to you:If Zimmerman had been killed that night by Martin's bare hands, would you have justified it as a "good kill"?Had Zimmerman NOT been armed and his behavior was exactly the same that night, what do you put the odds at that Zimmerman would be dead today?

 

[kentric]

Question for you CWP supporters and Zimmy defenders. Do you feel like this was a "good kill?" Regardless of who started the fight, do you feel like this is just expected to happen when you're allowed to carry a handgun out in public? Do you have any remorse that your fantasy of being a hero and shooting the bad guy wasnt actually the case and you instead shot a teenage boy coming back with some candy?To be honest this is what angers me the most. You Zimmy defenders show no remorse. It's pretty disgusting actually. It's almost like CWP supporters are so eager for a "good kill" that they'll demonize Martin just to prove a point.

While there are some here who do think Martin "got what was coming to him" I think the vast majority of people view this event as tragic and even though stand-your-ground may not come fully into play in this case, Martin's death has raised awareness that the SYG should be altered.

 

[Clifford]

Neither of which (following someone with or without gun) is against the law.

Yes, I'm sure the good folk of Florida would be just fine if black men with guns started following them around for no reason.Zimm was just carrying on an old southern tradition. Harrass the powerless until you provoke them, then when they respond to the provocation use the full power of the law to make sure they know their place in the pecking order.Anyone know if SYG allows for lynching if there's no gun handy?

It's a terrible posting. It is not a southern tradition, and as a southerner, I find the comment offensive and ignorant.

Also a southerner and while it may offend you it sure as hell isn't ignorant. Zimmerman made an assumption about tray based on race. Ultimately that assumption and suspicion led to him being killed. Anyway, anyone know why omarra said the defense was unprepared?

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Neither of which (following someone with or without gun) is against the law.

Yes, I'm sure the good folk of Florida would be just fine if black men with guns started following them around for no reason.Zimm was just carrying on an old southern tradition. Harrass the powerless until you provoke them, then when they respond to the provocation use the full power of the law to make sure they know their place in the pecking order.Anyone know if SYG allows for lynching if there's no gun handy?

It's a terrible posting. It is not a southern tradition, and as a southerner, I find the comment offensive and ignorant.

Also a southerner and while it may offend you it sure as hell isn't ignorant. Zimmerman made an assumption about tray based on race. Ultimately that assumption and suspicion led to him being killed.Anyway, anyone know why omarra said the defense was unprepared?

Probably a combination of the state not turning over all of its evidence in a timely manner (according to the defense when he made that statement there was still evidence pending to be turned over) and the fact that given more time, more funds could be raised for the defense fund. If evidence was still pending I assume he would want time to properly make any depositions necessary to prepare for court.

 

[spreagle]

Question for you CWP supporters and Zimmy defenders. Do you feel like this was a "good kill?" Regardless of who started the fight, do you feel like this is just expected to happen when you're allowed to carry a handgun out in public? Do you have any remorse that your fantasy of being a hero and shooting the bad guy wasnt actually the case and you instead shot a teenage boy coming back with some candy?To be honest this is what angers me the most. You Zimmy defenders show no remorse. It's pretty disgusting actually. It's almost like CWP supporters are so eager for a "good kill" that they'll demonize Martin just to prove a point.

While there are some here who do think Martin "got what was coming to him" I think the vast majority of people view this event as tragic and even though stand-your-ground may not come fully into play in this case, Martin's death has raised awareness that the SYG should be altered.

I hope this event raises awareness among street thugs that beating up total strangers is no longer a safe activity.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

homeless man video

O & A Interview with GZ's brother

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Question for you CWP supporters and Zimmy defenders. Do you feel like this was a "good kill?" Regardless of who started the fight, do you feel like this is just expected to happen when you're allowed to carry a handgun out in public? Do you have any remorse that your fantasy of being a hero and shooting the bad guy wasnt actually the case and you instead shot a teenage boy coming back with some candy?To be honest this is what angers me the most. You Zimmy defenders show no remorse. It's pretty disgusting actually. It's almost like CWP supporters are so eager for a "good kill" that they'll demonize Martin just to prove a point.

Absolutely zero remorse.If we are to believe everything Zimmerman has said to be true he did everything right. He was looking out for his neighborhood, he called it in and was monitoring Martin's whereabouts.Let me flip this around to you:If Zimmerman had been killed that night by Martin's bare hands, would you have justified it as a "good kill"?Had Zimmerman NOT been armed and his behavior was exactly the same that night, what do you put the odds at that Zimmerman would be dead today?

I find it highly unlikely Martin could've actually been able to kill Zimmerman with his bare hands before police arrived.

You answered the second question, not the first, so...?Regarding the answer you gave, what if Zimmerman was found unconscious and Martin got away, how would you feel about that?What should Martin have been charged with if Zimmerman was dead?

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Question for you CWP supporters and Zimmy defenders. Do you feel like this was a "good kill?" Regardless of who started the fight, do you feel like this is just expected to happen when you're allowed to carry a handgun out in public? Do you have any remorse that your fantasy of being a hero and shooting the bad guy wasnt actually the case and you instead shot a teenage boy coming back with some candy?To be honest this is what angers me the most. You Zimmy defenders show no remorse. It's pretty disgusting actually. It's almost like CWP supporters are so eager for a "good kill" that they'll demonize Martin just to prove a point.

Absolutely zero remorse.If we are to believe everything Zimmerman has said to be true he did everything right. He was looking out for his neighborhood, he called it in and was monitoring Martin's whereabouts.Let me flip this around to you:If Zimmerman had been killed that night by Martin's bare hands, would you have justified it as a "good kill"?Had Zimmerman NOT been armed and his behavior was exactly the same that night, what do you put the odds at that Zimmerman would be dead today?

I find it highly unlikely Martin could've actually been able to kill Zimmerman with his bare hands before police arrived.

You answered the second question, not the first, so...?Regarding the answer you gave, what if Zimmerman was found unconscious and Martin got away, how would you feel about that?What should Martin have been charged with if Zimmerman was dead?

If anything Martin would have more of a self defense leg to stand on. Zimmerman was doing exactly what the 911 operator told him not to do. That is persue his "suspect" he didn't listen.

Wow, you really like dodging questions and inserting your own hyperbole.

 

[Witz]

Question for you CWP supporters and Zimmy defenders. Do you feel like this was a "good kill?" Regardless of who started the fight, do you feel like this is just expected to happen when you're allowed to carry a handgun out in public? Do you have any remorse that your fantasy of being a hero and shooting the bad guy wasnt actually the case and you instead shot a teenage boy coming back with some candy?To be honest this is what angers me the most. You Zimmy defenders show no remorse. It's pretty disgusting actually. It's almost like CWP supporters are so eager for a "good kill" that they'll demonize Martin just to prove a point.

Absolutely zero remorse.If we are to believe everything Zimmerman has said to be true he did everything right. He was looking out for his neighborhood, he called it in and was monitoring Martin's whereabouts.Let me flip this around to you:If Zimmerman had been killed that night by Martin's bare hands, would you have justified it as a "good kill"?Had Zimmerman NOT been armed and his behavior was exactly the same that night, what do you put the odds at that Zimmerman would be dead today?

I find it highly unlikely Martin could've actually been able to kill Zimmerman with his bare hands before police arrived.

You answered the second question, not the first, so...?Regarding the answer you gave, what if Zimmerman was found unconscious and Martin got away, how would you feel about that?What should Martin have been charged with if Zimmerman was dead?

If anything Martin would have more of a self defense leg to stand on. Zimmerman was doing exactly what the 911 operator told him not to do. That is persue his "suspect" he didn't listen.

Understanding that you're coming into this thread late, it's probably best if you read up on the case before inserting statements as 'fact' that aren't.

 

[Witz]

I'll stop commenting in here. Jojo's response to my question about whether he felt any remorse tells me all I need to know about where his heads at.

Don't stop. I think it's safe to say he's as far extreme as a person could be. I think it's also safe to say the vast majority of folks in this thread, regardless of which side they lean towards, feel regret towards Martin's death (or anyone's for that matter).

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

I'll stop commenting in here. Jojo's response to my question about whether he felt any remorse tells me all I need to know about where his heads at.

Meanwhile you evade any culpability by being examined by your own accusations. Laughable.

 

[kentric]

homeless man videoO & A Interview with GZ's brother

Zimmerman's brother seems very well spoken. Sounds quite a bit like George.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

homeless man videoO & A Interview with GZ's brother

Zimmerman's brother seems very well spoken. Sounds quite a bit like George.

I agree, it was a good interview.

 

[FootballDummy]

I'll stop commenting in here. Jojo's response to my question about whether he felt any remorse tells me all I need to know about where his heads at.

Don't stop. I think it's safe to say he's as far extreme as a person could be. I think it's also safe to say the vast majority of folks in this thread, regardless of which side they lean towards, feel regret towards Martin's death (or anyone's for that matter).

Except for Zimmerman himself. He said he wouldn't change a thing. Murderer.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Question for you CWP supporters and Zimmy defenders. Do you feel like this was a "good kill?" Regardless of who started the fight, do you feel like this is just expected to happen when you're allowed to carry a handgun out in public? Do you have any remorse that your fantasy of being a hero and shooting the bad guy wasnt actually the case and you instead shot a teenage boy coming back with some candy? To be honest this is what angers me the most. You Zimmy defenders show no remorse. It's pretty disgusting actually. It's almost like CWP supporters are so eager for a "good kill" that they'll demonize Martin just to prove a point.

I have no affiliation with the Center for Watershed Protection, I don't own a gun and I don't particularly care about gun owner rights. I think this incident was tragic and unfortunate. From what I've seen and heard, I think GZ was justified in the shooting. If his story is exposed to have holes in it or we find out he was lying about important details, I may change my mind. Right now, it appears everything he has told police from the moment they arrived aligns with all the evidence shared.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

I'll stop commenting in here. Jojo's response to my question about whether he felt any remorse tells me all I need to know about where his heads at.

remorsedeep and painful regret for wrongdoingYou expect me to say Zimmerman was in the wrong? Why do you want me to lie? Stop being so desperate.desperatereckless or dangerous because of despair or urgency

 

[Yenrub]

homeless man video

What was this video supposed to be showing us?

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

homeless man video

What was this video supposed to be showing us?

What did you see?

 

[BustedKnuckles]

ok...and that flies in the face of reason when hearing the 911 recording of someone screaming uninterrupted...if trey was truly had his hands all over zimms mouth the screams would have been muffled....my point is whether or not he was screaming i think he ''added'' the hands over the mouth part and probably the stuff he claims trey was saying as they were fighting. Ive been in court many many times for assault and battery and ive sat there listening to people lie and add stuff about what actually happened . If they didnt lie the case would been dropped in minutes.I could go into detail as to what im saying but its not needed. People lie when they are in trouble ....thats human nature,goes all the way back to when we are kids.

If it was Martin screaming, why was he screaming? It's human nature not to scream repeatedly for help when someone is pointing a gun at you. If I'm pointing a gun at you and you start screaming for over a minute, don't you think that would give me pause to shoot you since there were likely many witnesses that heard you screaming? I have already called the cops and I have a gun on you in your narrative of the story. Why don't I just wait for police to arrive? Or do you seriously believe Zimmerman is on his back getting pounded by Martin all the while Martin is screaming for help?!? Do you think he is screaming for help because Zimmerman is pointing a gun at him while he is on the ground?I get it you think you can catch Zimmerman in a lie, that he was not the one screaming for help. Let's assume it is inconclusive that it was Zimmerman screaming for help, which is the direction this case is going, now please explain to us how this fits into your narrative of the story. You realize if the prosecution wants any hope of convincing the jury that Martin was murdered they need to deliver a convincing narrative right?

You're not suggesting that Z held a gun on Martin for over a minute are you? Although I do agree with you that when someone is on top of another person giving them a smackdown that it is normally the smackee calling for help than the smacker.

Im saying ,and ive said this from day 1,that i believe that zimmy and trey got into a shoving match that escalated into a wrestling match that turned into a fight once the gun was introduced into the altercation....and as trey was trying to NOT get shot he was screaming for help...i find it too coincidental that the screams stop the second the gun fires...i mean the very second....if what zimmy says is true,that he didnt even know if he had shot trey ,why would he suddenly stop screaming ? He would have yelled at the very least for help even after the gun went off...i know this doesnt jibe with the likes of JO JO but i like using common sense in situations like this.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

homeless man video

What was this video supposed to be showing us?

What did you see?

2 black guys wrestling over something. Im surprised trey wasnt giving those guys some MMA tips seeing hes such a brutal street fighter and all.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

i find it too coincidental that the screams stop the second the gun fires...

Of course you do.

 

[avoiding injuries]

ok...and that flies in the face of reason when hearing the 911 recording of someone screaming uninterrupted...if trey was truly had his hands all over zimms mouth the screams would have been muffled....my point is whether or not he was screaming i think he ''added'' the hands over the mouth part and probably the stuff he claims trey was saying as they were fighting. Ive been in court many many times for assault and battery and ive sat there listening to people lie and add stuff about what actually happened . If they didnt lie the case would been dropped in minutes.I could go into detail as to what im saying but its not needed. People lie when they are in trouble ....thats human nature,goes all the way back to when we are kids.

If it was Martin screaming, why was he screaming? It's human nature not to scream repeatedly for help when someone is pointing a gun at you. If I'm pointing a gun at you and you start screaming for over a minute, don't you think that would give me pause to shoot you since there were likely many witnesses that heard you screaming? I have already called the cops and I have a gun on you in your narrative of the story. Why don't I just wait for police to arrive? Or do you seriously believe Zimmerman is on his back getting pounded by Martin all the while Martin is screaming for help?!? Do you think he is screaming for help because Zimmerman is pointing a gun at him while he is on the ground?I get it you think you can catch Zimmerman in a lie, that he was not the one screaming for help. Let's assume it is inconclusive that it was Zimmerman screaming for help, which is the direction this case is going, now please explain to us how this fits into your narrative of the story. You realize if the prosecution wants any hope of convincing the jury that Martin was murdered they need to deliver a convincing narrative right?

You're not suggesting that Z held a gun on Martin for over a minute are you? Although I do agree with you that when someone is on top of another person giving them a smackdown that it is normally the smackee calling for help than the smacker.

Im saying ,and ive said this from day 1,that i believe that zimmy and trey got into a shoving match that escalated into a wrestling match that turned into a fight once the gun was introduced into the altercation....and as trey was trying to NOT get shot he was screaming for help...i find it too coincidental that the screams stop the second the gun fires...i mean the very second....if what zimmy says is true,that he didnt even know if he had shot trey ,why would he suddenly stop screaming ? He would have yelled at the very least for help even after the gun went off...i know this doesnt jibe with the likes of JO JO but i like using common sense in situations like this.

This is what I don't get with people against GZ. It seems like speculation and imagination is needed to come to your conclusion.

 

[jon_mx]

Let's see, screaming stops when the gun fires:

1. The guy screaming on top kicking the guy's ### was screaming for some illogical reason was shot and was dead and could not scream no more.

2. The screaming guy getting his ### kicked killed the guy kicking his ### and now had no reason to scream.

Yeah, really ####### coincidental that the screaming stopped.

 

[kentric]

ok...and that flies in the face of reason when hearing the 911 recording of someone screaming uninterrupted...if trey was truly had his hands all over zimms mouth the screams would have been muffled....my point is whether or not he was screaming i think he ''added'' the hands over the mouth part and probably the stuff he claims trey was saying as they were fighting. Ive been in court many many times for assault and battery and ive sat there listening to people lie and add stuff about what actually happened . If they didnt lie the case would been dropped in minutes.I could go into detail as to what im saying but its not needed. People lie when they are in trouble ....thats human nature,goes all the way back to when we are kids.

If it was Martin screaming, why was he screaming? It's human nature not to scream repeatedly for help when someone is pointing a gun at you. If I'm pointing a gun at you and you start screaming for over a minute, don't you think that would give me pause to shoot you since there were likely many witnesses that heard you screaming? I have already called the cops and I have a gun on you in your narrative of the story. Why don't I just wait for police to arrive? Or do you seriously believe Zimmerman is on his back getting pounded by Martin all the while Martin is screaming for help?!? Do you think he is screaming for help because Zimmerman is pointing a gun at him while he is on the ground?I get it you think you can catch Zimmerman in a lie, that he was not the one screaming for help. Let's assume it is inconclusive that it was Zimmerman screaming for help, which is the direction this case is going, now please explain to us how this fits into your narrative of the story. You realize if the prosecution wants any hope of convincing the jury that Martin was murdered they need to deliver a convincing narrative right?

You're not suggesting that Z held a gun on Martin for over a minute are you? Although I do agree with you that when someone is on top of another person giving them a smackdown that it is normally the smackee calling for help than the smacker.

Im saying ,and ive said this from day 1,that i believe that zimmy and trey got into a shoving match that escalated into a wrestling match that turned into a fight once the gun was introduced into the altercation....and as trey was trying to NOT get shot he was screaming for help...i find it too coincidental that the screams stop the second the gun fires...i mean the very second....if what zimmy says is true,that he didnt even know if he had shot trey ,why would he suddenly stop screaming ? He would have yelled at the very least for help even after the gun went off...i know this doesnt jibe with the likes of JO JO but i like using common sense in situations like this.

If the gun was pulled right after the start of the altercation, don't you think that the eyewitness would have made some form of comment concerning a struggle over the gun as there most assuredly be some struggle with the gun in your view of what went down. Most of my viewpoint is based on the eyewitness who supposedly saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. It is difficult to conceive of a struggle over a gun going on for as long as those screams for help lasted.

Why in the world would you be surprised that the screams for help stopped when the gun went off. A gun going off is going to be loud and impactful. I can't imagine either of them screaming "help" the way "help" is being shouted in the 911 call. Also, after the gun went off, someone came outside and Z asked for that person's help in holding down Martin as Z wasn't sure at that point that he had hit Martin. Help (in a sense) had arrived.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Let's see, screaming stops when the gun fires: 1. The guy screaming on top kicking the guy's ### was screaming for some illogical reason was shot and was dead and could not scream no more.2. The screaming guy getting his ### kicked killed the guy kicking his ### and now had no reason to scream. Yeah, really ####### coincidental that the screaming stopped.

I've given up trying to argue with stupid. Kudos for expending the energy.