Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (2 Viewers)

[Joe McGee]

If Gary Busey and Precious had a love child, it would come out Rachel Jenteal.

 

[jamny]

Were there any other injuries to Trayvon besides the gunshot wound?

 

[jon_mx]

Were there any other injuries to Trayvon besides the gunshot wound?

I think his knuckles were swollen, probably from Zimmerman beating them with his face.

 

[pittstownkiller]

We are going to hit pause; you won't miss a thing.

 

[Slapdash]

Do those jugs look as awesome on the live feed as the pictures here: http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/06/27/will-rachel-jeantels-testimony-determine-george-zimmerman-trial-day-4-fate?hpt=hp_t2

Looks like she is the star witness

 

[CurlyNight]

We are going to hit pause; you won't miss a thing.

HLN has too many pauses and commercials which sucks but CNN is on to the immigration stuff now. I guess they just decided to put everything aside yesterday and part of today to capitalize on what's her name who provided entertainment as well and now that it's back to normal witnesses, no more. :/

 

[Witz]

If you want to watch it realtime - check our CBS news - they are streaming it live - uninterrupted.

 

[CurlyNight]

If you want to watch it realtime - check our CBS news - they are streaming it live - uninterrupted.

Cool, thanks!

 

[avoiding injuries]

If you want to watch it realtime - check our CBS news - they are streaming it live - uninterrupted.

Can you give a link?

 

[jon_mx]

You know it is going well when the prosecution tries to discredit there own witness.

 

[jon_mx]

Some hot women living in George's neighborhood. I think I would volunteer for the neighborhood watch...or pool boy.

 

[CurlyNight]

If you want to watch it realtime - check our CBS news - they are streaming it live - uninterrupted.

Can you give a link?

Here we go. Court is adjourned for the day. Right now defense lawyer talking.

http://www.wftv.com/s/zimmerman-livestream/

 

[CurlyNight]

They are 3 hours ahead of me so I'm watching HLN right now...

 

[jon_mx]

Where are are the pro-Martin folks???

 

[Lutherman2112]

This "pro-Martin" folk is just happy there is a trial.

 

[greenroom]

Where are are the pro-Martin folks???

Probably with jobs working. This is going as expected. People have said that he was on the phone, who verfied that Martin was followed by Z. What cannot be proven is who started the fight,

Were there any other injuries to Trayvon besides the gunshot wound?

I think his knuckles were swollen, probably from Zimmerman beating them with his face.

Link to where he was swollen from hitting Zimmerman? Since the Pro Zim fan club wants links for everything.

 

[jon_mx]

Link

WFTV has learned that the medical examiner found two injuries on Martin’s body: The fatal gunshot wound and broken skin on his knuckles.

When you compare Trayvon’s non-fatal injury with Zimmerman's bloody head wounds, the autopsy evidence is better for the defense, Sheaffer said.

 

[The Commish]

whatever happened to playing the recording, was that swept under the proverbially rug by the judge too?

You need to stop suggesting the judge may dismiss this case without hearing the defense. No way that happens.

What reason did she give for not playing the tape with the jury present?

She didn't really have one. She tried twice and was corrected both times and just shrugged. No judge has the guts to be the sole decider on this one.

She said that if the girl's testimony today didn't match the testimony on tape, they could introduce the tape as evidence that she did say what the defense was suggesting. I didn't see a problem with it personally

You don't see a problem with what? Not allowing the tape or allowing it? It seems like an important tidbit for the jury to hear, imo. Tone of voice is interesting, to me suggesting it was indeed rehearsed. The jury should be able to HEAR that, imo.

They played it without the jury and the judge denied playing it for the jury because Rachel didn't deny saying, "You want that too?" West pointed out that she did deny it. The judge agreed she was wrong, but then stated it didn't matter because Rachel didn't get to see a transcript. To which West, a little flustered, pointed out she'd seen two transcripts. The judge shrugged and said no tape for the jury. I admit court procedure confuses me... maybe I misunderstood something.

They heard it in the questions. In listening prior to the jury coming back, I didn't really hear anything in a "tone" that would be important, but I'm not looking for something to be there either

 

[The Commish]

State's most damaging witness up there

I am not sure how a prolonged series of yells for help, bold well for the prosecution. She identifies it as one voice the whole time. If Zimmerman planned on killing Martin, he would just pull out the gun and fire. Martin would only get off a view yells for help before he is shot dead. I am having a hard time figuring out why anyone believes this could have been Martin screaming for so long. It almost had to be Zimmerman on the ground getting his ### kicked. The yelps to helps even verifies the story of his mouth being covered. Seems like a slam dunk witness who helps the defense.

Heh.

There appears to be a mix up in the talking points memo that was sent out today.

wut?

He must have quoted that before reading further and seeing your explanation.Still no dog in the fight...lol

My only dog in this fight is mocking all those that think he's innocent or guilty already, so my "no dog in the fight" comment was incorrect. It happens.

 

[The Commish]

I missed the testimony around the "wounds" on Zimmerman's head? Did they happen to point out how "profusely" his head was bleeding or did they show the wounds after clean up as well?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I think murder 2 was a stretch of a charge. They'd have him on something lesser as I don't buy the self defense, but I think there's an intent issue.

 

[jon_mx]

State's most damaging witness up there

I am not sure how a prolonged series of yells for help, bold well for the prosecution. She identifies it as one voice the whole time. If Zimmerman planned on killing Martin, he would just pull out the gun and fire. Martin would only get off a view yells for help before he is shot dead. I am having a hard time figuring out why anyone believes this could have been Martin screaming for so long. It almost had to be Zimmerman on the ground getting his ### kicked. The yelps to helps even verifies the story of his mouth being covered. Seems like a slam dunk witness who helps the defense.

Heh.

There appears to be a mix up in the talking points memo that was sent out today.

wut?

He must have quoted that before reading further and seeing your explanation.Still no dog in the fight...lol

My only dog in this fight is mocking all those that think he's innocent or guilty already, so my "no dog in the fight" comment was incorrect. It happens.

He is innocent until proven guilty. Or you don't believe in that? So far Selma is the only witness who even remotely supports a murder charge. And BTW, you are clearly in the Martin camp.

 

[Christo]

I think murder 2 was a stretch of a charge.

I think that's the biggest issue in this whole saga.

 

[Ballstein]

So this witness is corroborating what Rachel said; heard voice 1, voice 2, voice 1 (but didn't hear what was said -- Rachel heard the exchange) and then scuffling on wet grass.

Explain in what universe, Martin who is inflicting most of the physical damage, is the one screaming for a prolonged period. I really don't get this part.

ever see a basketball player dunk a ball...."arrrrrrrrrrhhhhgghhhh GET OFF ME!"

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Well, now the FFA knows. Cracker is a standard description for whites.

Well seeing im a redhead i must be a Ritz cracker

 

[BustedKnuckles]

So this witness is corroborating what Rachel said; heard voice 1, voice 2, voice 1 (but didn't hear what was said -- Rachel heard the exchange) and then scuffling on wet grass.

Explain in what universe, Martin who is inflicting most of the physical damage, is the one screaming for a prolonged period. I really don't get this part.

You heard how long "prolonged" was on the 911 tape. It's not that long.

it would seem that zimmermans injuries were hardly anything considering the length of the altercation...he says trey was smashing his head on the cement over and over yet he only suffers 2 small cuts that didnt require stitches. So with that in mind i can see trey screaming while trying to not get shot by the guy with the gun...zimmerman was concentrating on getting his gun and not punching back...thats why he suffered the damage and trey only got shot.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

You know it is going well when the prosecution tries to discredit there own witness.

Good point... That was their witness wasn't it.. lol

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Link

WFTV has learned that the medical examiner found two injuries on Martin’s body: The fatal gunshot wound and broken skin on his knuckles.When you compare Trayvon’s non-fatal injury with Zimmerman's bloody head wounds, the autopsy evidence is better for the defense, Sheaffer said.

#### the news ...the autopsy says one small laceration over one knuckle

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I liked the way precious Jeantel stood up to the defense hahaha...she wasnt gonna let them creepy ### crackas get the better of her

 

[Courtjester]

Is this over yet?

The prosecution would have been better served bringing a "Unlawful Discharge of a Firearm" charge. At least then, they may and I use the word "may" cautiously, had a chance of a conviction.

 

[Lutherman2112]

This thing is totally over. The State should just drop all charges, just like the end of "My Cousin Vinny."

 

[timschochet]

This thing is totally over. The State should just drop all charges, just like the end of "My Cousin Vinny."

Interesting that you and jon mx and others seem to believe this. I'm watching a HLN analysis right now, and most of the attorneys there believe that the prosecution is winning big time. They find Rachel's essential testimony credible (as do I) and they think that the jury can't stand the defense attorney. They all seem to believe that Zimmerman is going to have to testify or he is going down.

Who knows?

 

[drummer]

This thing is totally over. The State should just drop all charges, just like the end of "My Cousin Vinny."

Interesting that you and jon mx and others seem to believe this. I'm watching a HLN analysis right now, and most of the attorneys there believe that the prosecution is winning big time. They find Rachel's essential testimony credible (as do I) and they think that the jury can't stand the defense attorney. They all seem to believe that Zimmerman is going to have to testify or he is going down.

Who knows?

 

[Christo]

This thing is totally over. The State should just drop all charges, just like the end of "My Cousin Vinny."

Interesting that you and jon mx and others seem to believe this. I'm watching a HLN analysis right now, and most of the attorneys there believe that the prosecution is winning big time. They find Rachel's essential testimony credible (as do I) and they think that the jury can't stand the defense attorney. They all seem to believe that Zimmerman is going to have to testify or he is going down.

Who knows?

"Experts" thought Casey Anthony's attorney was an idiot.

 

[timschochet]

This thing is totally over. The State should just drop all charges, just like the end of "My Cousin Vinny."

Interesting that you and jon mx and others seem to believe this. I'm watching a HLN analysis right now, and most of the attorneys there believe that the prosecution is winning big time. They find Rachel's essential testimony credible (as do I) and they think that the jury can't stand the defense attorney. They all seem to believe that Zimmerman is going to have to testify or he is going down.

Who knows?

Should I just rely on internet blogs instead, the way JoJo and others around here seem to be doing?

 

[timschochet]

This thing is totally over. The State should just drop all charges, just like the end of "My Cousin Vinny."

Interesting that you and jon mx and others seem to believe this. I'm watching a HLN analysis right now, and most of the attorneys there believe that the prosecution is winning big time. They find Rachel's essential testimony credible (as do I) and they think that the jury can't stand the defense attorney. They all seem to believe that Zimmerman is going to have to testify or he is going down.

Who knows?

"Experts" thought Casey Anthony's attorney was an idiot.

I'm sure they did. As I wrote, who knows? I just find it interesting that there seems to be such a disconnect.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

whatever happened to playing the recording, was that swept under the proverbially rug by the judge too?

You need to stop suggesting the judge may dismiss this case without hearing the defense. No way that happens.

What reason did she give for not playing the tape with the jury present?

She didn't really have one. She tried twice and was corrected both times and just shrugged. No judge has the guts to be the sole decider on this one.

She said that if the girl's testimony today didn't match the testimony on tape, they could introduce the tape as evidence that she did say what the defense was suggesting. I didn't see a problem with it personally

Zimmerman had many variations of his story about what went down,but the zimmy defenders here dont find that important. This girl does it and its lights out

 

[drummer]

This thing is totally over. The State should just drop all charges, just like the end of "My Cousin Vinny."

Interesting that you and jon mx and others seem to believe this. I'm watching a HLN analysis right now, and most of the attorneys there believe that the prosecution is winning big time. They find Rachel's essential testimony credible (as do I) and they think that the jury can't stand the defense attorney. They all seem to believe that Zimmerman is going to have to testify or he is going down.

Who knows?

Should I just rely on internet blogs instead, the way JoJo and others around here seem to be doing?

HLN is a clown show. Maybe you should.

 

[pittstownkiller]

This thing is totally over. The State should just drop all charges, just like the end of "My Cousin Vinny."

Interesting that you and jon mx and others seem to believe this. I'm watching a HLN analysis right now, and most of the attorneys there believe that the prosecution is winning big time. They find Rachel's essential testimony credible (as do I) and they think that the jury can't stand the defense attorney. They all seem to believe that Zimmerman is going to have to testify or he is going down.Who knows?

Should I just rely on internet blogs instead, the way JoJo and others around here seem to be doing?

HLN is a clown show. Maybe you should.

I'm not even sure how many of the panel on HLN are even attorneys.

 

[jon_mx]

This thing is totally over. The State should just drop all charges, just like the end of "My Cousin Vinny."

Interesting that you and jon mx and others seem to believe this. I'm watching a HLN analysis right now, and most of the attorneys there believe that the prosecution is winning big time. They find Rachel's essential testimony credible (as do I) and they think that the jury can't stand the defense attorney. They all seem to believe that Zimmerman is going to have to testify or he is going down.

Who knows?

Should I just rely on internet blogs instead, the way JoJo and others around here seem to be doing?

No, you should think for yourself and stop quoting talking head experts. Not every case is about who has the smoothest lawyers. Sometimes there are juries who actually listen to the court instructions and believe that the prosecution has the burden to meet their obligations to lock someone up. So far there has been very little substance to back up essential elements of this crime. That is not an opinion, it is a fact.

 

[timschochet]

OK, so someone explain this to me: thanks to Rachel, the prosecution has established a narrative of what they believed happened. Zimmerman was the aggressor, Martin said "get off me", indicating that Zimmerman did not fear for his life and therefore is guilty of murder or at least manslaughter.

How does the defense come up with their own narrative? They will have John, who will testify that at least one point Martin was on top of Zimmerman (maybe). They have photos of injuries suffered by Zimmerman (somewhat minor.) But without Zimmerman's testimony,, they have nothing to tie this together, nothing for the jury to assume self-defense. So again, can the defense get away with not putting GZ on the stand?

 

[avoiding injuries]

This thing is totally over. The State should just drop all charges, just like the end of "My Cousin Vinny."

Interesting that you and jon mx and others seem to believe this. I'm watching a HLN analysis right now, and most of the attorneys there believe that the prosecution is winning big time. They find Rachel's essential testimony credible (as do I) and they think that the jury can't stand the defense attorney. They all seem to believe that Zimmerman is going to have to testify or he is going down.Who knows?

Should I just rely on internet blogs instead, the way JoJo and others around here seem to be doing?

I think we all have our opinions and we find things that support our opinions. I find the HLN commentators to be a bunch of kooks for thinking this. But when I saw a panel vote the previous two days that the defense won the day, I thought that portion was credible. It's tougher to find people who support GZ and are willing to come out and say it on some of the more popular media outlets because it is not necessarily politically correct.

 

[timschochet]

This thing is totally over. The State should just drop all charges, just like the end of "My Cousin Vinny."

Interesting that you and jon mx and others seem to believe this. I'm watching a HLN analysis right now, and most of the attorneys there believe that the prosecution is winning big time. They find Rachel's essential testimony credible (as do I) and they think that the jury can't stand the defense attorney. They all seem to believe that Zimmerman is going to have to testify or he is going down.

Who knows?

Should I just rely on internet blogs instead, the way JoJo and others around here seem to be doing?

No, you should think for yourself and stop quoting talking head experts. Not every case is about who has the smoothest lawyers. Sometimes there are juries who actually listen to the court instructions and believe that the prosecution has the burden to meet their obligations to lock someone up. So far there has been very little substance to back up essential elements of this crime. That is not an opinion, it is a fact.

No it is an opinion.

The essential elements of this crime are that (1) George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin to death (not contested) and (2) that George Zimmerman did not act in self-defense. We just had a witness state unequivocally that she heard Trayvon Martin say "get off me, get off me." Either she is lying, or George Zimmerman did not act in self-defense. I found Rachel to be, in this aspect of her overall testimony, a credible witness. The defense tried to shake her testimony and they failed rather miserably IMO. Therefore there HAVE been enough substance to back up the essential elements of this crime, contrary to your statement.

 

[Christo]

This thing is totally over. The State should just drop all charges, just like the end of "My Cousin Vinny."

Interesting that you and jon mx and others seem to believe this. I'm watching a HLN analysis right now, and most of the attorneys there believe that the prosecution is winning big time. They find Rachel's essential testimony credible (as do I) and they think that the jury can't stand the defense attorney. They all seem to believe that Zimmerman is going to have to testify or he is going down.

Who knows?

Should I just rely on internet blogs instead, the way JoJo and others around here seem to be doing?

No, you should think for yourself and stop quoting talking head experts. Not every case is about who has the smoothest lawyers. Sometimes there are juries who actually listen to the court instructions and believe that the prosecution has the burden to meet their obligations to lock someone up. So far there has been very little substance to back up essential elements of this crime. That is not an opinion, it is a fact.

No it is an opinion.

The essential elements of this crime are that (1) George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin to death (not contested) and (2) that George Zimmerman did not act in self-defense. We just had a witness state unequivocally that she heard Trayvon Martin say "get off me, get off me." Either she is lying, or George Zimmerman did not act in self-defense. I found Rachel to be, in this aspect of her overall testimony, a credible witness. The defense tried to shake her testimony and they failed rather miserably IMO. Therefore there HAVE been enough substance to back up the essential elements of this crime, contrary to your statement.

Bunk

 

[jon_mx]

OK, so someone explain this to me: thanks to Rachel, the prosecution has established a narrative of what they believed happened. Zimmerman was the aggressor, Martin said "get off me", indicating that Zimmerman did not fear for his life and therefore is guilty of murder or at least manslaughter.

How does the defense come up with their own narrative? They will have John, who will testify that at least one point Martin was on top of Zimmerman (maybe). They have photos of injuries suffered by Zimmerman (somewhat minor.) But without Zimmerman's testimony,, they have nothing to tie this together, nothing for the jury to assume self-defense. So again, can the defense get away with not putting GZ on the stand?

You put way more weight on Didi's testimony than most people and none of her testimony really matters. The physical evidence along with the 911 voice recording indicates Martin was on top of Zimmerman, beating him up, and Martin was screaming for help. How they got in that position really does not matter. Zimmerman was in fear for his life yelling for help. It was not Martin.

Besides, in order for a second degree conviction, the state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt the following:

• A "person of ordinary judgment" would know the act, or series of acts, "is reasonably certain to kill or do serious bodily injury to another";
• The act is "done from ill will, hatred, spite, or an evil intent"; and
• The act is "of such a nature that the act itself indicates an indifference to human life."

There is no way with the evidence the defense is presenting, a fair jury would rule that the state has met those elements. The case is deficient even without the defense doing one thing.

 

[pittstownkiller]

This thing is totally over. The State should just drop all charges, just like the end of "My Cousin Vinny."

Interesting that you and jon mx and others seem to believe this. I'm watching a HLN analysis right now, and most of the attorneys there believe that the prosecution is winning big time. They find Rachel's essential testimony credible (as do I) and they think that the jury can't stand the defense attorney. They all seem to believe that Zimmerman is going to have to testify or he is going down.Who knows?

Should I just rely on internet blogs instead, the way JoJo and others around here seem to be doing?

No, you should think for yourself and stop quoting talking head experts. Not every case is about who has the smoothest lawyers. Sometimes there are juries who actually listen to the court instructions and believe that the prosecution has the burden to meet their obligations to lock someone up. So far there has been very little substance to back up essential elements of this crime. That is not an opinion, it is a fact.

No it is an opinion.The essential elements of this crime are that (1) George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin to death (not contested) and (2) that George Zimmerman did not act in self-defense. We just had a witness state unequivocally that she heard Trayvon Martin say "get off me, get off me." Either she is lying, or George Zimmerman did not act in self-defense. I found Rachel to be, in this aspect of her overall testimony, a credible witness. The defense tried to shake her testimony and they failed rather miserably IMO. Therefore there HAVE been enough substance to back up the essential elements of this crime, contrary to your statement.

Since you are clearly not dealing with facts Tim, how about this: let's say that GZ grabbed TM, then TM punched him in the face, straddled Z, and started to tee off; could Z be scared for his life then?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I think murder 2 was a stretch of a charge.

I think that's the biggest issue in this whole saga.

It just made no sense. Political pressure I guess, but it likely will do more harm than good.

 

[jon_mx]

This thing is totally over. The State should just drop all charges, just like the end of "My Cousin Vinny."

Interesting that you and jon mx and others seem to believe this. I'm watching a HLN analysis right now, and most of the attorneys there believe that the prosecution is winning big time. They find Rachel's essential testimony credible (as do I) and they think that the jury can't stand the defense attorney. They all seem to believe that Zimmerman is going to have to testify or he is going down.

Who knows?

Should I just rely on internet blogs instead, the way JoJo and others around here seem to be doing?

No, you should think for yourself and stop quoting talking head experts. Not every case is about who has the smoothest lawyers. Sometimes there are juries who actually listen to the court instructions and believe that the prosecution has the burden to meet their obligations to lock someone up. So far there has been very little substance to back up essential elements of this crime. That is not an opinion, it is a fact.

No it is an opinion.

The essential elements of this crime are that (1) George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin to death (not contested) and (2) that George Zimmerman did not act in self-defense. We just had a witness state unequivocally that she heard Trayvon Martin say "get off me, get off me." Either she is lying, or George Zimmerman did not act in self-defense. I found Rachel to be, in this aspect of her overall testimony, a credible witness. The defense tried to shake her testimony and they failed rather miserably IMO. Therefore there HAVE been enough substance to back up the essential elements of this crime, contrary to your statement.

No Tim, there is much more too it then that. See post above.

 

[timschochet]

This thing is totally over. The State should just drop all charges, just like the end of "My Cousin Vinny."

Interesting that you and jon mx and others seem to believe this. I'm watching a HLN analysis right now, and most of the attorneys there believe that the prosecution is winning big time. They find Rachel's essential testimony credible (as do I) and they think that the jury can't stand the defense attorney. They all seem to believe that Zimmerman is going to have to testify or he is going down.

Who knows?

Should I just rely on internet blogs instead, the way JoJo and others around here seem to be doing?

No, you should think for yourself and stop quoting talking head experts. Not every case is about who has the smoothest lawyers. Sometimes there are juries who actually listen to the court instructions and believe that the prosecution has the burden to meet their obligations to lock someone up. So far there has been very little substance to back up essential elements of this crime. That is not an opinion, it is a fact.

No it is an opinion.

The essential elements of this crime are that (1) George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin to death (not contested) and (2) that George Zimmerman did not act in self-defense. We just had a witness state unequivocally that she heard Trayvon Martin say "get off me, get off me." Either she is lying, or George Zimmerman did not act in self-defense. I found Rachel to be, in this aspect of her overall testimony, a credible witness. The defense tried to shake her testimony and they failed rather miserably IMO. Therefore there HAVE been enough substance to back up the essential elements of this crime, contrary to your statement.

Bunk

So it is your position that if Martin was saying "get off me get off me", Zimmerman still could have killed him in self-defense? I don't think any jury is going to believe that.

 

[timschochet]

OK, so someone explain this to me: thanks to Rachel, the prosecution has established a narrative of what they believed happened. Zimmerman was the aggressor, Martin said "get off me", indicating that Zimmerman did not fear for his life and therefore is guilty of murder or at least manslaughter.

How does the defense come up with their own narrative? They will have John, who will testify that at least one point Martin was on top of Zimmerman (maybe). They have photos of injuries suffered by Zimmerman (somewhat minor.) But without Zimmerman's testimony,, they have nothing to tie this together, nothing for the jury to assume self-defense. So again, can the defense get away with not putting GZ on the stand?

You put way more weight on Didi's testimony than most people and none of her testimony really matters. The physical evidence along with the 911 voice recording indicates Martin was on top of Zimmerman, beating him up, and Martin was screaming for help. How they got in that position really does not matter. Zimmerman was in fear for his life yelling for help. It was not Martin.

Besides, in order for a second degree conviction, the state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt the following:

• A "person of ordinary judgment" would know the act, or series of acts, "is reasonably certain to kill or do serious bodily injury to another";
• The act is "done from ill will, hatred, spite, or an evil intent"; and
• The act is "of such a nature that the act itself indicates an indifference to human life."

There is no way with the evidence the defense is presenting, a fair jury would rule that the state has met those elements. The case is deficient even without the defense doing one thing.

The bolded statements are unbelievable. Where do you get this?