Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (3 Viewers)

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

State's most damaging witness up there

I am not sure how a prolonged series of yells for help, bold well for the prosecution. She identifies it as one voice the whole time. If Zimmerman planned on killing Martin, he would just pull out the gun and fire. Martin would only get off a view yells for help before he is shot dead. I am having a hard time figuring out why anyone believes this could have been Martin screaming for so long. It almost had to be Zimmerman on the ground getting his ### kicked. The yelps to helps even verifies the story of his mouth being covered. Seems like a slam dunk witness who helps the defense.

Heh.

There appears to be a mix up in the talking points memo that was sent out today.

wut?

He must have quoted that before reading further and seeing your explanation.Still no dog in the fight...lol

My only dog in this fight is mocking all those that think he's innocent or guilty already, so my "no dog in the fight" comment was incorrect. It happens.

He is innocent until proven guilty. Or you don't believe in that? So far Selma is the only witness who even remotely supports a murder charge. And BTW, you are clearly in the Martin camp.

Oh god....gonna be one of THOSE days huh? He's on trial. At the moment, I think the murder 2 charge is a stretch. That may or may not change. I don't know if he's innocent or guilty at this point and have made no defense one way or the other. If that puts me in the Martin camp, you have a VERY lazy and thoughtless definition of "martin camp".

At this point in the trial (and only the trial) he is guilty, but I'm not sure of what. Of course other than the opening statement there has not yet been the telling of the defense side with any evidence or testimony so that conclusion as a "knock knock" jurist is based on just the one side presented so far. (At least based on my understanding of what happened from my biased media sources.)

 

[kentric]

So this witness is corroborating what Rachel said; heard voice 1, voice 2, voice 1 (but didn't hear what was said -- Rachel heard the exchange) and then scuffling on wet grass.

Explain in what universe, Martin who is inflicting most of the physical damage, is the one screaming for a prolonged period. I really don't get this part.

You heard how long "prolonged" was on the 911 tape. It's not that long.

it would seem that zimmermans injuries were hardly anything considering the length of the altercation...he says trey was smashing his head on the cement over and over yet he only suffers 2 small cuts that didnt require stitches. So with that in mind i can see trey screaming while trying to not get shot by the guy with the gun...zimmerman was concentrating on getting his gun and not punching back...thats why he suffered the damage and trey only got shot.

Based on the length of the screaming, it sure took Z a longgggg time to get his gun out.

 

[The Commish]

I think they can come back with the lesser charge of manslaughter

This is what I want to know about....is this true or not?

 

[The Commish]

State's most damaging witness up there

I am not sure how a prolonged series of yells for help, bold well for the prosecution. She identifies it as one voice the whole time. If Zimmerman planned on killing Martin, he would just pull out the gun and fire. Martin would only get off a view yells for help before he is shot dead. I am having a hard time figuring out why anyone believes this could have been Martin screaming for so long. It almost had to be Zimmerman on the ground getting his ### kicked. The yelps to helps even verifies the story of his mouth being covered. Seems like a slam dunk witness who helps the defense.

Heh.

There appears to be a mix up in the talking points memo that was sent out today.

wut?

He must have quoted that before reading further and seeing your explanation.Still no dog in the fight...lol

My only dog in this fight is mocking all those that think he's innocent or guilty already, so my "no dog in the fight" comment was incorrect. It happens.

He is innocent until proven guilty. Or you don't believe in that? So far Selma is the only witness who even remotely supports a murder charge. And BTW, you are clearly in the Martin camp.

Oh god....gonna be one of THOSE days huh? He's on trial. At the moment, I think the murder 2 charge is a stretch. That may or may not change. I don't know if he's innocent or guilty at this point and have made no defense one way or the other. If that puts me in the Martin camp, you have a VERY lazy and thoughtless definition of "martin camp".

At this point in the trial (and only the trial) he is guilty, but I'm not sure of what. Of course other than the opening statement there has not yet been the telling of the defense side with any evidence or testimony so that conclusion as a "knock knock" jurist is based on just the one side presented so far. (At least based on my understanding of what happened from my biased media sources.)

Yeah, I don't think murder 2 (at this point) is gonna fly. That's why I am wondering about lesser charges being a possibility??

 

[jamny]

From the NY Times

Jurors will get the opportunity to consider the lesser charge of manslaughter, but prosecutors will spend weeks in court arguing for second-degree murder.

 

[kentric]

John seems very credible.

 

[Witz]

If you want to watch it realtime - check our CBS news - they are streaming it live - uninterrupted.

Can you give a link?

http://www.cbsnews.com/2718-201_162-1950/cbs-news-live-video/?tag=custom

 

[kentric]

Long time b/w him seeing fight and getting through to 911 as he saw the fight and only 1-2 times help yelled and then shot. There were many other yells for help on other 911 call.

 

[avoiding injuries]

If you want to watch it realtime - check our CBS news - they are streaming it live - uninterrupted.

Can you give a link?

http://www.cbsnews.com/2718-201_162-1950/cbs-news-live-video/?tag=custom

Thank you. CNN doing a good job this morning. Can't take the pauses and two minute footage from HLN.

 

[timschochet]

Wait- is this "John"? I thought he was going to be a defense witness?

 

[Witz]

If you want to watch it realtime - check our CBS news - they are streaming it live - uninterrupted.

Can you give a link?

http://www.cbsnews.com/2718-201_162-1950/cbs-news-live-video/?tag=custom

Thank you. CNN doing a good job this morning.Can't take the pauses and two minute footage from HLN.

I had HLN on initially but the let's pause here every 2 minutes was brutal (and they were delayed compared to where the trial actually was).

 

[avoiding injuries]

Long time b/w him seeing fight and getting through to 911 as he saw the fight and only 1-2 times help yelled and then shot. There were many other yells for help on other 911 call.

He said he heard sounds and muted TV. Turned TV back on until he heard more sounds. Saw fight and went to call 911. Once calling 911 he wasn't paying attention to sounds any longer.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Wait- is this "John"? I thought he was going to be a defense witness?

Oh, he is definitely turning out to be. The prosecution just called him.

 

[jon_mx]

In May 2010, a Palm Beach County jury acquitted Timothy McTigue of second-degree murder in the death of Michael Palmer, 23. The two got into a fight in Riviera Beach and McTigue shot Palmer in the back of the head as Palmer got out of the water near a floating dock.

In 2007, a jury acquitted Norman Borden of murder when he shot and killed two men who threatened him as he walked his four dogs near his home in West Palm Beach.

Christopher Araujo, 19, and Saul Trejo, 21, went after Borden with bats and Borden fired his gun. His attorney argued immunity for Borden under "Stand Your Ground," but Circuit Judge William Berger declined to dismiss the charges and the case went to trial. Eleven women and one man on the jury reached their not-guilty verdict in two hours.

 

[avoiding injuries]

MOM getting down and dirty on the courtroom floor.

 

[Joe McGee]

Defense scoring major points here.

 

[Witz]

Wait- is this "John"? I thought he was going to be a defense witness?

That's what I thought as well - but the comments appear to help the defense (just said Martin was on top).

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Wait- is this "John"? I thought he was going to be a defense witness?

Are you watching?

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1660497384001?bckey=AQ~~,AAAACOwnf_E~,TgMWB0rOLZ--cYg0rI2dA1nELPgkbrGK&bctid=2384667495001

 

[Carolina Hustler]

John's story looks to be corroborating Zimmerman's story..

 

[timschochet]

Wait- is this "John"? I thought he was going to be a defense witness?

That's what I thought as well - but the comments appear to help the defense (just said Martin was on top).

Did he? What exactly did he say to indicate that?

I admit to being pretty confused here. I've been told over and over in this thread that this was the defense's key witness in this trial. Why would the prosecution call him? And what exactly is he saying here?

 

[kentric]

John didn't notice the banging of Z's head on concrete. Some discrepancy there. I forgot what Z said about this. Did he say he was being choked and his head pounded or, just head pounded. If the later, defense could claim hits/punches from Trayvon forced Z's head to hit the ground.

 

[Witz]

Ground and pound - witness is saying that the person on top was going at the person on the bottom.

 

[avoiding injuries]

What is the antonym of TOAST?

 

[Witz]

Wait- is this "John"? I thought he was going to be a defense witness?

That's what I thought as well - but the comments appear to help the defense (just said Martin was on top).

Did he? What exactly did he say to indicate that?

I admit to being pretty confused here. I've been told over and over in this thread that this was the defense's key witness in this trial. Why would the prosecution call him? And what exactly is he saying here?

He said the person on top was in black.

 

[timschochet]

John's story looks to be corroborating Zimmerman's story..

Not sure of that, but in any event there is no "Zimmerman's story" as of yet.

 

[jamny]

Wait- is this "John"? I thought he was going to be a defense witness?

That's what I thought as well - but the comments appear to help the defense (just said Martin was on top).

Did he? What exactly did he say to indicate that?

I admit to being pretty confused here. I've been told over and over in this thread that this was the defense's key witness in this trial. Why would the prosecution call him? And what exactly is he saying here?

Lighter skinned person wearing the lighter jacket was on the bottom. Darker skinned person wearing the darker clothes was on top straddling (MMA style) and punching down.

 

[kentric]

Wait- is this "John"? I thought he was going to be a defense witness?

That's what I thought as well - but the comments appear to help the defense (just said Martin was on top).

Did he? What exactly did he say to indicate that?

I admit to being pretty confused here. I've been told over and over in this thread that this was the defense's key witness in this trial. Why would the prosecution call him? And what exactly is he saying here?

He is the Defense's key witness. The Prosecution calling him may just be as simple as putting the thought in the jury's head that he is for the prosecution and that is why he was called by the Prosecution. Or, they're just trying to steal the Defense's thunder. Alternatively, by calling him first, they get the first and last chances to question him.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Wait- is this "John"? I thought he was going to be a defense witness?

That's what I thought as well - but the comments appear to help the defense (just said Martin was on top).

Did he? What exactly did he say to indicate that?

I admit to being pretty confused here. I've been told over and over in this thread that this was the defense's key witness in this trial. Why would the prosecution call him? And what exactly is he saying here?

Why don't you just watch it?

 

[avoiding injuries]

Wait- is this "John"? I thought he was going to be a defense witness?

That's what I thought as well - but the comments appear to help the defense (just said Martin was on top).

Did he? What exactly did he say to indicate that?I admit to being pretty confused here. I've been told over and over in this thread that this was the defense's key witness in this trial. Why would the prosecution call him? And what exactly is he saying here?

Guy in dark clothes was on top throwing arms down. Light skin guy was on bottom. Light skin guy asked him for help. He went to call 911. He watched fight for 8-10 seconds. Uh oh, he just said it was Trayvon on top.

 

[timschochet]

OK, he just said it.

I am mystified. Why would the prosecution call this guy?

 

[Witz]

John's story looks to be corroborating Zimmerman's story..

Not sure of that, but in any event there is no "Zimmerman's story" as of yet.

Come on Tim - you know what he meant.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

What is the antonym of TOAST?

soggy bread?

 

[Witz]

Saying he believes it was the one on the bottom yelling for help.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

John's story looks to be corroborating Zimmerman's story..

Not sure of that, but in any event there is no "Zimmerman's story" as of yet.

We've watched Zimmerman's story here in the thread..

 

[The Commish]

Wait- is this "John"? I thought he was going to be a defense witness?

That's what I thought as well - but the comments appear to help the defense (just said Martin was on top).

Did he? What exactly did he say to indicate that?

I admit to being pretty confused here. I've been told over and over in this thread that this was the defense's key witness in this trial. Why would the prosecution call him? And what exactly is he saying here?

Lighter skinned person wearing the lighter jacket was on the bottom. Darker skinned person wearing the darker clothes was on top straddling (MMA style) and punching down.

Martin must have been a pansy then....the "wounds" on Zimmerman's face (even with a broken nose) were weak. This is the 'worst' photo I've seen, though there may be others. Wasn't aware of the hyperbole around all his "injuries"

 

[kentric]

Defense scoring major points here with MMA, color of skin and clothing and screams for help. Wasn't difficult to override Prosecutions questioning whether Good was 100% sure that the yelling was from the bottom.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Eyewitnes says Trayvon Martin was pounding GZ ala MMA ground and pound and that GZ was screaming. Is there really any need to continue this charade?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Wait- is this "John"? I thought he was going to be a defense witness?

That's what I thought as well - but the comments appear to help the defense (just said Martin was on top).

Did he? What exactly did he say to indicate that?

I admit to being pretty confused here. I've been told over and over in this thread that this was the defense's key witness in this trial. Why would the prosecution call him? And what exactly is he saying here?

He is the Defense's key witness. The Prosecution calling him may just be as simple as putting the thought in the jury's head that he is for the prosecution and that is why he was called by the Prosecution. Or, they're just trying to steal the Defense's thunder. Alternatively, by calling him first, they get the first and last chances to question him.

Yes, seems to be strategic..

 

[avoiding injuries]

They must have replaced the microphone. I can hear this witness much better than the one from yesterday morning.

 

[The Commish]

So at this point, we've established that Martin was on top for a period of time. What does that mean? Do we know if Martin had the gun pulled on him by that time? Had he even seen the gun?

 

[Witz]

Wait- is this "John"? I thought he was going to be a defense witness?

That's what I thought as well - but the comments appear to help the defense (just said Martin was on top).

Did he? What exactly did he say to indicate that?

I admit to being pretty confused here. I've been told over and over in this thread that this was the defense's key witness in this trial. Why would the prosecution call him? And what exactly is he saying here?

Lighter skinned person wearing the lighter jacket was on the bottom. Darker skinned person wearing the darker clothes was on top straddling (MMA style) and punching down.

Martin must have been a pansy then....the "wounds" on Zimmerman's face (even with a broken nose) were weak. This is the 'worst' photo I've seen, though there may be others. Wasn't aware of the hyperbole around all his "injuries"

They showed a number of photos of Zimmermans head the first day - aside from the injuries to the front of the head, he had lumps on both sides of his head and the injuries on the back of his head (along with the blood running down the sides of his head from the back of the head).

 

[jamny]

Wait- is this "John"? I thought he was going to be a defense witness?

That's what I thought as well - but the comments appear to help the defense (just said Martin was on top).

Did he? What exactly did he say to indicate that?

I admit to being pretty confused here. I've been told over and over in this thread that this was the defense's key witness in this trial. Why would the prosecution call him? And what exactly is he saying here?

Lighter skinned person wearing the lighter jacket was on the bottom. Darker skinned person wearing the darker clothes was on top straddling (MMA style) and punching down.

Martin must have been a pansy then....the "wounds" on Zimmerman's face (even with a broken nose) were weak. This is the 'worst' photo I've seen, though there may be others. Wasn't aware of the hyperbole around all his "injuries"

Well, there's no saying that Zimmerman didn't block a lot of his punches.

 

[StrikeS2k]

So at this point, we've established that Martin was on top for a period of time. What does that mean? Do we know if Martin had the gun pulled on him by that time? Had he even seen the gun?

I think what we learn from this is that it's reasonable to believe GZ was in fear for his life. He was being pounded ground and pound style.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Wait- is this "John"? I thought he was going to be a defense witness?

That's what I thought as well - but the comments appear to help the defense (just said Martin was on top).

Did he? What exactly did he say to indicate that?

I admit to being pretty confused here. I've been told over and over in this thread that this was the defense's key witness in this trial. Why would the prosecution call him? And what exactly is he saying here?

Lighter skinned person wearing the lighter jacket was on the bottom. Darker skinned person wearing the darker clothes was on top straddling (MMA style) and punching down.

Martin must have been a pansy then....the "wounds" on Zimmerman's face (even with a broken nose) were weak. This is the 'worst' photo I've seen, though there may be others. Wasn't aware of the hyperbole around all his "injuries"

Pushing someone head into the concrete doesn't necessarily injure the face..

 

[timschochet]

My initial impression here is that John has provided reasonable doubt for the defense, and just secured an acquittal for George Zimmerman. I have no idea why the prosecution would call him to the stand.

I hope I'm wrong about this, as you guys know what I think about this story. But rationally I can't see how the prosecution can possibly convince the jury at this point.

 

[The Commish]

Wait- is this "John"? I thought he was going to be a defense witness?

That's what I thought as well - but the comments appear to help the defense (just said Martin was on top).

Did he? What exactly did he say to indicate that?

I admit to being pretty confused here. I've been told over and over in this thread that this was the defense's key witness in this trial. Why would the prosecution call him? And what exactly is he saying here?

Lighter skinned person wearing the lighter jacket was on the bottom. Darker skinned person wearing the darker clothes was on top straddling (MMA style) and punching down.

Martin must have been a pansy then....the "wounds" on Zimmerman's face (even with a broken nose) were weak. This is the 'worst' photo I've seen, though there may be others. Wasn't aware of the hyperbole around all his "injuries"

They showed a number of photos of Zimmermans head the first day - aside from the injuries to the front of the head, he had lumps on both sides of his head and the injuries on the back of his head (along with the blood running down the sides of his head from the back of the head).

Yeah, I saw the scratches and nicks on the back of his head as well, but folks here were suggesting Zimmerman's face had been "smashed in". From what I've seen, the injuries he sustained happen in the first minute of an MMA fight. Not suggesting they weren't a bad, but not nearly as bad as portrayed here.

 

[StrikeS2k]

My initial impression here is that John has provided reasonable doubt for the defense, and just secured an acquittal for George Zimmerman. I have no idea why the prosecution would call him to the stand.

I hope I'm wrong about this, as you guys know what I think about this story. But rationally I can't see how the prosecution can possibly convince the jury at this point.

And you have the gall to call me "close minded."

 

[The Commish]

So at this point, we've established that Martin was on top for a period of time. What does that mean? Do we know if Martin had the gun pulled on him by that time? Had he even seen the gun?

I think what we learn from this is that it's reasonable to believe GZ was in fear for his life. He was being pounded ground and pound style.

Devil's advocate here....what if what this guy saw was Martin's reaction to seeing the gun?

 

[Witz]

Wait- is this "John"? I thought he was going to be a defense witness?

That's what I thought as well - but the comments appear to help the defense (just said Martin was on top).

Did he? What exactly did he say to indicate that?

I admit to being pretty confused here. I've been told over and over in this thread that this was the defense's key witness in this trial. Why would the prosecution call him? And what exactly is he saying here?

Lighter skinned person wearing the lighter jacket was on the bottom. Darker skinned person wearing the darker clothes was on top straddling (MMA style) and punching down.

Martin must have been a pansy then....the "wounds" on Zimmerman's face (even with a broken nose) were weak. This is the 'worst' photo I've seen, though there may be others. Wasn't aware of the hyperbole around all his "injuries"

They showed a number of photos of Zimmermans head the first day - aside from the injuries to the front of the head, he had lumps on both sides of his head and the injuries on the back of his head (along with the blood running down the sides of his head from the back of the head).

Yeah, I saw the scratches and nicks on the back of his head as well, but folks here were suggesting Zimmerman's face had been "smashed in". From what I've seen, the injuries he sustained happen in the first minute of an MMA fight. Not suggesting they weren't a bad, but not nearly as bad as portrayed here.

Absolutely - his face wasn't falling off but significant enough (as in if my child had sustained those injuries, it would be very significant).

 

[Chaos Commish]

So at this point, we've established that Martin was on top for a period of time. What does that mean? Do we know if Martin had the gun pulled on him by that time? Had he even seen the gun?

According to George, he twisted his body from the bottom position, his shirt lifted exposing his gun, Trayvon saw it, threatened to kill him, George felt Martin's hand crossing his body going for the gun, George unholstered and fired. Unfortunately there is no other witness closer to this than John but George.