Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (2 Viewers)

[Bigboy10182000]

This is a trainwrecky by Guy ... "i don't have any evidence, use your heart, your common sense"

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

My wife was questioning the whole street name thing. We've lived in our neighborhood for 7 years and walk regularly. So asked her to tell me the name of the street that goes past the pond. She couldn't.

Is she the neighborhood watch coordinator?

 

[BoltzNBrew]

Prosecution tells a made up story and expects everyone to believe it? Where is any evidence to back up this story?

Listen. He's offering it.

He is not telling a story. He is poking holes in Zimmerman story.

Not with fact but with his assumption of what COULD have happend and what GZ COULD have been thinking and doing. He's telling what he thinks MIGHT have happend and why every single move GZ make was an act of murder. I don't see it. No facts at all.

 

[Todem]

My wife was questioning the whole street name thing. We've lived in our neighborhood for 7 years and walk regularly. So asked her to tell me the name of the street that goes past the pond. She couldn't.

Thank you.

Pure garbage the states case is.

This is so embarrising!!!

 

[jon_mx]

Guy - "He shot TM because he wanted to"

And here is where the division on this thread...this case...everything comes down to.

What do you believe? (we know what Tim believes...GZ is a racisit murderer)

But that is not what decides the case. Did the state prove GZ wanted to shoot TM? And did he in cold blood?

NO!!!!!!

This is crazy. I can't believe we had this trial. I still can't believe they are trying to convict him of murder. Common sense says this was a tragedy.....and we will never know what really happened. Most of the evidence points to self defense and this man feared for his life or serious injury. I really am perplexed at what The State of Florida did here.

Common sense about the name of a street?

I am a long time board memeber in my community.....I don't know the name of every street in my neighborhood. So that makes me a liar if I need to look for the name of a street? That is a clear sign of a liar? Come on. This is what the state is pointing to do point out a lie?

This case smells. Smells badly. For the prosocution.

If common sense is used here.

Not guilty.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

My wife was questioning the whole street name thing. We've lived in our neighborhood for 7 years and walk regularly. So asked her to tell me the name of the street that goes past the pond. She couldn't.

She's obviously a liar who shouldnt be trusted.

 

[timschochet]

Prosecution tells a made up story and expects everyone to believe it? Where is any evidence to back up this story?

Listen. He's offering it.

He is not telling a story. He is poking holes in Zimmerman story.

That's all he needs to do. His story is that Zimmerman pulled a gun and killed Martin. Zimmerman needs to come up with a reason for that story- self-defense. So all the prosecution has to do is poke holes in the self-defense theory.

 

[jon_mx]

It is not a stand your ground case, but yet the prosecution keeps referring to Zimmerman's knowledge of it.

 

[The Commish]

This dude is much better at this than baldy is.

 

[CrossEyed]

My wife was questioning the whole street name thing. We've lived in our neighborhood for 7 years and walk regularly. So asked her to tell me the name of the street that goes past the pond. She couldn't.

Is she the neighborhood watch coordinator?

Why would that matter? He's not the neighborhood traffic coordinator.

 

[Abrantes]

I just feel sorry for Zimmerman. He has been the true victim in all of this.

http://gawker.com/this-courtesy-of-msnbc-is-trayvon-martins-dead-body-753370712

Our gun laws are a joke. Doubtless Zimm gets off to hunt again. It's a travesty that what went down that night is legal.

Get a gun. Mess with someone till they retaliate. Blow them away. Tell everyone how scared you were. Wash rinse repeat. Legal Shmegal.

I wish I could say I was surprised but nothing surprises me any more in this insane country.

Despicable link. Way to prostitute the kid's body in the name of page views.

 

[timschochet]

My wife was questioning the whole street name thing. We've lived in our neighborhood for 7 years and walk regularly. So asked her to tell me the name of the street that goes past the pond. She couldn't.

Is your wife the head of Neighborhood Watch? Has she made 40+ calls to the police in the last few years? Are there only 3 streets in your neighborhood?

If the answer to these questions are all yes, then I would consider your wife's statement as a good argument. Otherwise, it's completely irrelevant.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

It is not a stand your ground case, but yet the prosecution keeps referring to Zimmerman's knowledge of it.

Did you read the jury instructions posted earlier?

If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in anyplace where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his

ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was

necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent

the commission of a forcible felony.

 

[The Commish]

Other than the 100 times or so I've said I am certainly a "You made bad decisions and got yourself into this" kind of person, sure? I get the need to deflect and make excuses, but this kind of denial is getting in to Jo Jo territory here. I thought you got that when you left the thread and started your own. Guess not. The ONLY reason it's "all over the place" is because you want it to be...the lawyers here were crystal clear why you are completely wrong about it.

Whatever...if you want to be a #####, so be it. I am not going to get into some stupid pissing match with you.

That's about right. Just so the record is straight (not even sure why I bother, but I'm bored I guess), at the very beginning I said I didn't have a dog in the fight and I don't. I have plenty of biases as I've acknowledged in this thread.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Every thing he is saying ive been saying since day 1....at least i was on track in my beliefs .

 

[Slapdash]

Something about this thread reminds me of all of the election threads prior to November 6th.

 

[jon_mx]

Prosecution tells a made up story and expects everyone to believe it? Where is any evidence to back up this story?

Listen. He's offering it.

He is not telling a story. He is poking holes in Zimmerman story.

That's all he needs to do. His story is that Zimmerman pulled a gun and killed Martin. Zimmerman needs to come up with a reason for that story- self-defense. So all the prosecution has to do is poke holes in the self-defense theory.

But that is not all they have to do. They have to convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt that is was not self-defense. To me poking holes does not do that. They need to present a more plausible scenario, which they can't do.

 

[The Commish]

State going the emotional route, i think thats their best and only strategy, especially with 6 ladies on the jury.

Yeah, it will be effective for some. But those gun-owning #####es will not fall for it. Bank on that. This is gong to be a hung jury.

Gone from acquittal to hung jury now?? You've been giving Tim a lot of grief in this thread. Do you have any walls in your glass house that aren't shattered at this point?

I have seen too many people who dig in that Zimmerman is guilty and no matter how the facts show and the law says will not budge. So yes, I have to account for the fact that there will be a couple of these irrational thinking people will be on the jury too.

Huh? What do people here and on the internet have to do with the jury? The jury is going to be handing down the judgement.

 

[timschochet]

Something about this thread reminds me of all of the election threads prior to November 6th.

Are you predicting a conviction?

 

[lod01]

I just feel sorry for Zimmerman. He has been the true victim in all of this.

http://gawker.com/this-courtesy-of-msnbc-is-trayvon-martins-dead-body-753370712

Our gun laws are a joke. Doubtless Zimm gets off to hunt again. It's a travesty that what went down that night is legal.

Get a gun. Mess with someone till they retaliate. Blow them away. Tell everyone how scared you were. Wash rinse repeat. Legal Shmegal.

I wish I could say I was surprised but nothing surprises me any more in this insane country.

True. I've done it 3 times just this week.

There's nothing wrong with shooting as long as the right people get shot.

Signed, Dirty Harry.

 

[Rayderr]

"Do you think for a second, seriously, that if Trayvon Martin had seen that gun ever, there’d be a gunshot at 90 degrees in the center of his chest? Do you think that? Mr. Softie was going to be able to get a shot directly through the center of his chest with Trayvon Martin knowing that gun was there, fighting for his life?"

I'm sure making fat jokes will go over well with a group of women.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

State is so angry, they love to yell.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

State is so angry, they love to yell.

at least it keeps peoples attention..MOM was putting me to sleep

 

[Gawain]

Anyone opined yet that Martin's folks may want a not-guilty verdict here? Generally people cannot profit off of their crime, so there would be little to no assets to go after in a civil case. Not guilty gets him doing a round of talk shows and a much better chance of significant assets for a civil case.

 

[Zow]

You guys don't know my ex. I know her. She's amazing and this can't possibly end badly, despite all of your vast experience of dealing with the same issues I am.

Yes this is the same thing.

So you haven't watched the trial at all, you are just here to give us your expert opinion on relationships errr on 300 hours of a murder trial since you have a lot of experience with murder trials, right?

You guys don't know my gf! I get the fact that it may sound bad, but I think I can make this work. I saw on TV once that if I stand under her window with a radio and sing it'll all be okay. In fact, I think I'm going to write her a poem based on a ####ty rock ballad.

 

[timschochet]

Question for the trial lawyers:

Closing arguments: prosecution goes first, then defense, prosecution gets a rebuttal. First of all, is this standard for all criminal trials? If so, why? It certainly seems to favor the prosecution in general. What is the thinking behind this?

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

It is not a stand your ground case, but yet the prosecution keeps referring to Zimmerman's knowledge of it.

Did you read the jury instructions posted earlier?

If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in anyplace where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his

ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was

necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent

the commission of a forcible felony.

Lots of stuff are in the jury instructions that aren't really relevant. All the stuff about excuse (as opposed to justification), for example.

In fairness, the State is arguably putting SYG into play by focusing on Zimmerman following Martin. That could be construed to be something like a duty to retreat argument.

 

[tdoss]

Here is how I would rebut MOM's close (which has been pretty good when I've watched it).

"There were only two witnesses to the totality of this incident. One of them is George Zimmerman. The only other possible witness, unfortunately, is Trayvon Martin. He can't tell you what happened. But you are not obligated to accept the self-serving, unsworn, characterization of this confrontation offered by George Zimmerman. We have presented ample evidence that his account is simply not credible.

And absent any credible, unbiased account of this entire confrontation, we are left with the same facts we have had at the beginning. A trained, armed, larger defendant fatally shot an unarmed, smaller teenage victim. Reasonable doubt is not the absence of all doubt. And the defense has offered no credible evidence that Mr. Zimmerman feared death or great bodily harm, much less that reasonably cautious and prudent person in his situation would have."

Not bad...best shot to take I guess.

My problem with that, is the screaming at the top of his lungs. If I'm on the jury, I have to believe its Z screaming...it's the only narrative that makes sense given the facts. That screaming plants the seed of what Z's state of mind is during that one-sided beat down. He's terrified...screaming and pleading for help. Sounds like the guy was not so worried about getting a scratch from a sprinkler head and more worried about dying. Unreasonable as it could possibly be...that's still the reality that Z is portraying in those prolonged screeches for help.

 

[The Commish]

Guy is not presenting facts, he is asking questions to the jury, much like the defense should be doing to raise reasonable doubt, not the state.

His best shot IMO. There's no evidence on who started the altercation and there is evidence to suggest certain things may have happened the way the defense suggests. Problem is, the "evidence" from the defense is pretty much Zimmerman's account of what happened. So if they can portray Zimmerman is unreliable it becomes a "what do you believe happened" kind of case whether we like that or not. I've not really understood the focus on the gunshot wound honestly. The evidence allows for the picture the defense presented, but it doesn't eliminate other options. A lot of the evidence seems to be that type of evidence. Yeah it supports the narrative. You can also come up with other narratives that it supports.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Martin's parents didn't get front row seats today, they thought it was more important to show up late in the middle of O'Mara's closing statements.

 

[timschochet]

Anyone opined yet that Martin's folks may want a not-guilty verdict here? Generally people cannot profit off of their crime, so there would be little to no assets to go after in a civil case. Not guilty gets him doing a round of talk shows and a much better chance of significant assets for a civil case.

Gee, I dunno. Another possibility is that they lost their son and want to see the guy who killed him sent to jail. But maybe your point deserves equal weight...

 

[lod01]

Anyone opined yet that Martin's folks may want a not-guilty verdict here? Generally people cannot profit off of their crime, so there would be little to no assets to go after in a civil case. Not guilty gets him doing a round of talk shows and a much better chance of significant assets for a civil case.

Quite the dilemma. Root for justice, get no $. Root for $, get no justice.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Question for the trial lawyers:

Closing arguments: prosecution goes first, then defense, prosecution gets a rebuttal. First of all, is this standard for all criminal trials? If so, why? It certainly seems to favor the prosecution in general. What is the thinking behind this?

This has been explained in this thread. The prosecution must bear the burden of proof, so they get the last word.

 

[Slapdash]

Something about this thread reminds me of all of the election threads prior to November 6th.

Are you predicting a conviction?

IDK, I have mostly been following this thread for the lulz.

I certainly don't think it is such a shut case as many here do. Just interesting that many of these people were all over the election threads talking about Romney as a sure thing.

 

[CrossEyed]

Question for the trial lawyers:

Closing arguments: prosecution goes first, then defense, prosecution gets a rebuttal. First of all, is this standard for all criminal trials? If so, why? It certainly seems to favor the prosecution in general. What is the thinking behind this?

It's the same reasons that congressmen have no term limits. State makes the rules. Rules benefit the state.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Anyone opined yet that Martin's folks may want a not-guilty verdict here? Generally people cannot profit off of their crime, so there would be little to no assets to go after in a civil case. Not guilty gets him doing a round of talk shows and a much better chance of significant assets for a civil case.

I'll let a lawyer correct me, since there are so many in this thread, but I believe in the state of Florida if Zimmerman's Self Defense claim holds he will be immune to civil prosecution on this case.

 

[Joe McGee]

Anyone opined yet that Martin's folks may want a not-guilty verdict here? Generally people cannot profit off of their crime, so there would be little to no assets to go after in a civil case. Not guilty gets him doing a round of talk shows and a much better chance of significant assets for a civil case.

They already got their millions off of suing the apartment complex and selling Trayvon T-shirts. They're set for life.

 

[Rayderr]

"There are no Rachel Jeantels on CSI,"

In the inevittable tv movie, Gabourey Sidibe as Rachel Jeantel

 

[timschochet]

Question for the trial lawyers:

Closing arguments: prosecution goes first, then defense, prosecution gets a rebuttal. First of all, is this standard for all criminal trials? If so, why? It certainly seems to favor the prosecution in general. What is the thinking behind this?

This has been explained in this thread. The prosecution must bear the burden of proof, so they get the last word.

But then why not give the defense the first shot, then have the prosecution go, rather than allowing the prosecution to speak twice?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Question for the trial lawyers:

Closing arguments: prosecution goes first, then defense, prosecution gets a rebuttal. First of all, is this standard for all criminal trials? If so, why? It certainly seems to favor the prosecution in general. What is the thinking behind this?

It's the same reasons that congressmen have no term limits. State makes the rules. Rules benefit the state.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

John Guy sounds just like Olsteen!

Meh, not really.

ok

and looks like dennis quaid

 

[Rayderr]

Anyone opined yet that Martin's folks may want a not-guilty verdict here? Generally people cannot profit off of their crime, so there would be little to no assets to go after in a civil case. Not guilty gets him doing a round of talk shows and a much better chance of significant assets for a civil case.

They already got their millions off of suing the apartment complex and selling Trayvon T-shirts. They're set for life.

How was the Apt. complex responsible and how much did they win?

 

[lod01]

Question for the trial lawyers:

Closing arguments: prosecution goes first, then defense, prosecution gets a rebuttal. First of all, is this standard for all criminal trials? If so, why? It certainly seems to favor the prosecution in general. What is the thinking behind this?

This has been explained in this thread. The prosecution must bear the burden of proof, so they get the last word.

They should cahnge the rule and make it like Nancy Disgrace & HLN. Give them both one shot and then unleash the laywers where they all talk at the same time and end up trying to scream above the others.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Something about this thread reminds me of all of the election threads prior to November 6th.

Are you predicting a conviction?

IDK, I have mostly been following this thread for the lulz.

I certainly don't think it is such a shut case as many here do. Just interesting that many of these people were all over the election threads talking about Romney as a sure thing.

Translation: I'm just here to keep my notebook updated for future threads so I can reference this thread.

 

[Joe McGee]

Anyone opined yet that Martin's folks may want a not-guilty verdict here? Generally people cannot profit off of their crime, so there would be little to no assets to go after in a civil case. Not guilty gets him doing a round of talk shows and a much better chance of significant assets for a civil case.

They already got their millions off of suing the apartment complex and selling Trayvon T-shirts. They're set for life.

How was the Apt. complex responsible and how much did they win?

More than 1 million in the settlement:

http://jezebel.com/5993941/trayvon-martins-parents-settle-wrongful-death-claim-with-florida-subdivision

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Anyone opined yet that Martin's folks may want a not-guilty verdict here? Generally people cannot profit off of their crime, so there would be little to no assets to go after in a civil case. Not guilty gets him doing a round of talk shows and a much better chance of significant assets for a civil case.

Quite the dilemma. Root for justice, get no $. Root for $, get no justice.

Very unlikely they will get rich in any case. I think a civil verdict is unlikely in the case of an acquittal (the OJ case is an anomaly, IMO) and Zimmerman will be advised on how to avoid piercing the veil in the event of an adverse verdict.

 

[lod01]

Anyone opined yet that Martin's folks may want a not-guilty verdict here? Generally people cannot profit off of their crime, so there would be little to no assets to go after in a civil case. Not guilty gets him doing a round of talk shows and a much better chance of significant assets for a civil case.

They already got their millions off of suing the apartment complex and selling Trayvon T-shirts. They're set for life.

How was the Apt. complex responsible and how much did they win?

More than 1 million in the settlement:http://jezebel.com/5993941/trayvon-martins-parents-settle-wrongful-death-claim-with-florida-subdivision

Jackpot!

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

DEFENSE SIDEBAR IN THE MIDDLE OF CLOSING!@@@@@@@@#!@!$#!@~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[BustedKnuckles]

DEFENSE SIDEBAR IN THE MIDDLE OF CLOSING!@@@@@@@@#!@!$#!@~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that was strange

 

[GroveDiesel]

Very interesting blog post from a lefty legal analyst:

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2013/7/11/22341/3139/crimenews/Benjamin-Crump-Who-Screamed-Doesn-t-Matter