Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (1 Viewer)

[VA703]

pretty good article from Ted Nugent

http://rare.us/story/nugent-zimmerman-verdict-vindicates-citizen-patrols-self-defense/

This won't go over well here:

"Neighbors agree to upkick their vigilance and overall level of awareness to watch out for each other and keep an eye out for suspicious individuals and behavior."

He used the "V" word!

The FFA is a weird place, but I'm still pretty confident that nobody here is dumb enough to take a Ted Nugent column seriously.

hes the opposite of al sharpton

 

[The Commish]

pretty good article from Ted Nugent

http://rare.us/story/nugent-zimmerman-verdict-vindicates-citizen-patrols-self-defense/

This won't go over well here:

"Neighbors agree to upkick their vigilance and overall level of awareness to watch out for each other and keep an eye out for suspicious individuals and behavior."

He used the "V" word!

The FFA is a weird place, but I'm still pretty confident that nobody here is dumb enough to take a Ted Nugent column seriously.

ummm...yeah, I wouldn't be too sure about that.

 

[jonessed]

Many of them just happen to disagree with your interpretation of their rights. That doesn't make them paranoid.

...

Why does one need the safety of a gun if they aren't paranoid?

I don't see anything irrational about owning a gun for protection.

 

[The Commish]

As for Didi's interview on Piers Morgan, when asked about how she talks, she did say she has a bone structure problem for years that she's been putting off surgery for. This makes it tough for her to enunciate words clearly. That seems to explain her sounding like she's on drugs.

What then explains her inability to answer the questions asked of her. I had a severe lisp as a child and teenager. I sympathize on the word formation/enunciation front. But shes incoherent. Half of what she said in that interview made no sense what so ever. She tried to explain that "cracka" is not an epithet. I'm a native born Floridian. When blacks use it towards whites it is indeed an epithet in the same vein as when whites use the N-word toward blacks. It does not mean what she said it means. The Casey Anthony defense attorney was right in that at one time and among whites it does refer to native born Floridians and Georgians. But it has morphed in a sense in the opposite direction that the N-word has. Where once the term cracker was used as a source of pride it is now used to deride. The N-word seems to have traveled the opposite path.

At least on juror felt she didn't want to be there, was completely overwhelmed because she knew she was less educated and not nearly as articulate as she should be. She felt bad for the girl. I think it's clear that West got under her skin and that made things even worse.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

pretty good article from Ted Nugent

http://rare.us/story/nugent-zimmerman-verdict-vindicates-citizen-patrols-self-defense/

This won't go over well here:

"Neighbors agree to upkick their vigilance and overall level of awareness to watch out for each other and keep an eye out for suspicious individuals and behavior."

He used the "V" word!

The FFA is a weird place, but I'm still pretty confident that nobody here is dumb enough to take a Ted Nugent column seriously.

hes the opposite of al Sharpton

The opposite of Al Sharpton would be somebody like Plato. I don't think the gentleman who penned "Wang Dang Sweet Poontang" is quite on that level.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

pretty good article from Ted Nugent

http://rare.us/story/nugent-zimmerman-verdict-vindicates-citizen-patrols-self-defense/

This won't go over well here:

"Neighbors agree to upkick their vigilance and overall level of awareness to watch out for each other and keep an eye out for suspicious individuals and behavior."

He used the "V" word!

The FFA is a weird place, but I'm still pretty confident that nobody here is dumb enough to take a Ted Nugent column seriously.

ummm...yeah, I wouldn't be too sure about that.

Yeah what awful advice he is preaching:

Here’s the lesson from all this, America: Teach your children to not attack people for no good reason whatsoever. Conduct yourself in a responsible, civil manner, and everything will be just fine. Try to kill someone and that someone just may be exercising his or her Second Amendment rights and you could get shot. It’s called self-defense, and it is the oldest, strongest and most righteous instinct and God-given right known to man.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

As for Didi's interview on Piers Morgan, when asked about how she talks, she did say she has a bone structure problem for years that she's been putting off surgery for. This makes it tough for her to enunciate words clearly. That seems to explain her sounding like she's on drugs.

What then explains her inability to answer the questions asked of her. I had a severe lisp as a child and teenager. I sympathize on the word formation/enunciation front. But shes incoherent. Half of what she said in that interview made no sense what so ever. She tried to explain that "cracka" is not an epithet. I'm a native born Floridian. When blacks use it towards whites it is indeed an epithet in the same vein as when whites use the N-word toward blacks. It does not mean what she said it means. The Casey Anthony defense attorney was right in that at one time and among whites it does refer to native born Floridians and Georgians. But it has morphed in a sense in the opposite direction that the N-word has. Where once the term cracker was used as a source of pride it is now used to deride. The N-word seems to have traveled the opposite path.

At least on juror felt she didn't want to be there, was completely overwhelmed because she knew she was less educated and not nearly as articulate as she should be. She felt bad for the girl. I think it's clear that West got under her skin and that made things even worse.

What did Don West say to get under her skin?

 

[TobiasFunke]

pretty good article from Ted Nugent

http://rare.us/story/nugent-zimmerman-verdict-vindicates-citizen-patrols-self-defense/

This won't go over well here:

"Neighbors agree to upkick their vigilance and overall level of awareness to watch out for each other and keep an eye out for suspicious individuals and behavior."

He used the "V" word!

The FFA is a weird place, but I'm still pretty confident that nobody here is dumb enough to take a Ted Nugent column seriously.

ummm...yeah, I wouldn't be too sure about that.

Yeah what awful advice he is preaching:

Here’s the lesson from all this, America: Teach your children to not attack people for no good reason whatsoever. Conduct yourself in a responsible, civil manner, and everything will be just fine. Try to kill someone and that someone just may be exercising his or her Second Amendment rights and you could get shot. It’s called self-defense, and it is the oldest, strongest and most righteous instinct and God-given right known to man.

Apparently I was wrong.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Nugent makes some good points in his column, but considering what a nutjob he is, they had to have been an accident. He is as bad as Sharpton when it comes to his agenda shaping any argument he makes.

 

[timschochet]

Abraham, we're not supposed to give them reparations and we're not supposed to feel guilty. We're supposed to try to understand, and help where it makes sense. Personally I think more money toward education would be a good place to start. I don't think Republicans in Congress should be cutting off food stamps just when people need it most.

And I don't believe racists like George Zimmerman (and yes, I believe he is a racist!) should be allowed to shoot an unarmed black teen without repercussions. He should be in jail for manslaughter right now. Our society is better than this.

Tim, please stop spouting talking points. How much more do we need to spend on Education? The real issue is making sure that what we spend on education is actually going to the classroom for better teachers and student focused curriculums. Public school systems are full of waste. Republicans are attempting to cut a percentage of the SNAP program that is equal to the amount of waste and fraud in the program. I believe they want to reduce funding by 3-5%. I would think that if 3-5% of the SNAP program is waste, fraud and abuse then the Dept of Agriculture and the State agencies that administer this program should look into clamping down harder on such abuse. That way the people that need the assistance will continue to get it and the people who game the system will be pushed out of it.

Tim, what evidence do you have to support your view that George Zimmerman is a racist? You yourself said that if you were on the jury you would have had to acquit him. But now your saying he should be in jail for manslaughter. The known facts dont support such a conclusion. Only your suppositions do. I think this is why some people get frustrated with you. Your all over the map sir. You are consistent in your inconsistency.

Sorry, I thought I had made myself very clear.

1. The reason I believe Zimmerman is a racist has to do with this case and his comments to 911 and his actions. It is also based on some earlier comments by friends and on MySpace that Zimmerman expressed racist attitudes (This came out over a year ago on Huffington Post, and I can't source it now, as much as I've tried.). I can't prove it, and in fact ArbyMelt has brought up some interesting facts that would seem to contradict my supposition. So I will suspend judgment for now. It doesn't change my frame of mind about this case. Even if he is the least racist person on Earth, he should not be allowed to shoot down an unarmed Trayvon Martin.

2. I believe that George Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter and should be in prison. But I allow for reasonable doubt, so I would have voted to acquit him. I disagree with you, however, that the known facts don't support such a conclusion (manslaughter). I strongly believe they do, and had the case been presented correctly, GZ would now stand convicted.

3. I really don't care if people get frustrated with me or not, but I doubt the reason for their frustration is my "inconsistency".

 

[The Commish]

Nugent makes some good points in his column, but considering what a nutjob he is, they had to have been an accident. He is as bad as Sharpton when it comes to his agenda shaping any argument he makes.

Which goes to the overall theme of taking him seriously. A broken clock is correct two times a day.

 

[The Commish]

As for Didi's interview on Piers Morgan, when asked about how she talks, she did say she has a bone structure problem for years that she's been putting off surgery for. This makes it tough for her to enunciate words clearly. That seems to explain her sounding like she's on drugs.

What then explains her inability to answer the questions asked of her. I had a severe lisp as a child and teenager. I sympathize on the word formation/enunciation front. But shes incoherent. Half of what she said in that interview made no sense what so ever. She tried to explain that "cracka" is not an epithet. I'm a native born Floridian. When blacks use it towards whites it is indeed an epithet in the same vein as when whites use the N-word toward blacks. It does not mean what she said it means. The Casey Anthony defense attorney was right in that at one time and among whites it does refer to native born Floridians and Georgians. But it has morphed in a sense in the opposite direction that the N-word has. Where once the term cracker was used as a source of pride it is now used to deride. The N-word seems to have traveled the opposite path.

At least on juror felt she didn't want to be there, was completely overwhelmed because she knew she was less educated and not nearly as articulate as she should be. She felt bad for the girl. I think it's clear that West got under her skin and that made things even worse.

What did Don West say to get under her skin?

Given what the juror describes, he didn't have to say anything specific. With an individual like DiDi it's enough that a man is standing in front of her grilling her with questions, trying to get her boyfriend's killer off. That alone is enough to get under her skin. Kinda thought that was obvious. Guess not.

 

[timschochet]

Not a fan of Ted Nugent's political views (though a huge fan of some of his music!).

But look- you guys make the same mistake here that you did with the opinion piece I posted yesterday. I find it extremely unwise to dismiss someone's arguments simply because you don't like the person making them. If an article makes reasonable sense, who cares what the source is?

It's the same reason I don't have anyone on ignore.

 

[Spanky267]

Many of them just happen to disagree with your interpretation of their rights. That doesn't make them paranoid....

Why does one need the safety of a gun if they aren't paranoid?

Uh I can answer that. I carried a gun, briefly, while I worked. I carried large sums of cash and worked by myself in the early morning pre dawn hours and occassionally into the evening. I worked in a very high crime area. As a matter of fact the manager of one of the stores in the area I worked was just murdered at 9am on a Sunday morning. I wasnt paranoid, I was just being cautious. I made deliveries and was in and out of a truck all day. Some days I would work until 9pm and I might have $2-3K in cash on my person from the days deliveries. This was the neighborhood I grew up in. I wasnt paranoid of anything. I was just aware of my surroundings and the potential that I could be a victim of crime. In the time I worked my route 4 of my stores were robbed and one of my friends in one of those stores was shot after he had cooperated with the robber. That is why I carried a gun.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

As for Didi's interview on Piers Morgan, when asked about how she talks, she did say she has a bone structure problem for years that she's been putting off surgery for. This makes it tough for her to enunciate words clearly. That seems to explain her sounding like she's on drugs.

What then explains her inability to answer the questions asked of her. I had a severe lisp as a child and teenager. I sympathize on the word formation/enunciation front. But shes incoherent. Half of what she said in that interview made no sense what so ever. She tried to explain that "cracka" is not an epithet. I'm a native born Floridian. When blacks use it towards whites it is indeed an epithet in the same vein as when whites use the N-word toward blacks. It does not mean what she said it means. The Casey Anthony defense attorney was right in that at one time and among whites it does refer to native born Floridians and Georgians. But it has morphed in a sense in the opposite direction that the N-word has. Where once the term cracker was used as a source of pride it is now used to deride. The N-word seems to have traveled the opposite path.

At least on juror felt she didn't want to be there, was completely overwhelmed because she knew she was less educated and not nearly as articulate as she should be. She felt bad for the girl. I think it's clear that West got under her skin and that made things even worse.

What did Don West say to get under her skin?

Given what the juror describes, he didn't have to say anything specific. With an individual like DiDi it's enough that a man is standing in front of her grilling her with questions, trying to get her boyfriend's killer off. That alone is enough to get under her skin. Kinda thought that was obvious. Guess not.

"Grilling" and "boyfriend", interesting choice of words.

 

[timschochet]

So I just read the Nugent opinion piece. Like so many people here and elsewhere that defended George Zimmerman all along, he accepts GZ's narrative of the events and then regurgitates it as fact. Worse, he does something that very few people did here, with the exception of Mr. Two Cents- he puts this issue on a plain of good and evil, regarding GZ's actions as "good" and Martin's as "evil". Couldn't disagree more.

However, in expressing anger and resentment toward those (like myself) who tend to see this case in racial terms, Nugent is, I suspect, highly representative of a majority of conservative thought.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

2. I believe that George Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter and should be in prison. But I allow for reasonable doubt, so I would have voted to acquit him.

WTH?

 

[Da Guru]

Abraham, we're not supposed to give them reparations and we're not supposed to feel guilty. We're supposed to try to understand, and help where it makes sense. Personally I think more money toward education would be a good place to start. I don't think Republicans in Congress should be cutting off food stamps just when people need it most.

And I don't believe racists like George Zimmerman (and yes, I believe he is a racist!) should be allowed to shoot an unarmed black teen without repercussions. He should be in jail for manslaughter right now. Our society is better than this.

Tim, please stop spouting talking points. How much more do we need to spend on Education? The real issue is making sure that what we spend on education is actually going to the classroom for better teachers and student focused curriculums. Public school systems are full of waste. Republicans are attempting to cut a percentage of the SNAP program that is equal to the amount of waste and fraud in the program. I believe they want to reduce funding by 3-5%. I would think that if 3-5% of the SNAP program is waste, fraud and abuse then the Dept of Agriculture and the State agencies that administer this program should look into clamping down harder on such abuse. That way the people that need the assistance will continue to get it and the people who game the system will be pushed out of it.

Tim, what evidence do you have to support your view that George Zimmerman is a racist? You yourself said that if you were on the jury you would have had to acquit him. But now your saying he should be in jail for manslaughter. The known facts dont support such a conclusion. Only your suppositions do. I think this is why some people get frustrated with you. Your all over the map sir. You are consistent in your inconsistency.

Sorry, I thought I had made myself very clear.

1. The reason I believe Zimmerman is a racist has to do with this case and his comments to 911 and his actions. It is also based on some earlier comments by friends and on MySpace that Zimmerman expressed racist attitudes (This came out over a year ago on Huffington Post, and I can't source it now, as much as I've tried.). I can't prove it, and in fact ArbyMelt has brought up some interesting facts that would seem to contradict my supposition. So I will suspend judgment for now. It doesn't change my frame of mind about this case. Even if he is the least racist person on Earth, he should not be allowed to shoot down an unarmed Trayvon Martin.

2. I believe that George Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter and should be in prison. But I allow for reasonable doubt, so I would have voted to acquit him. I disagree with you, however, that the known facts don't support such a conclusion (manslaughter). I strongly believe they do, and had the case been presented correctly, GZ would now stand convicted.

3. I really don't care if people get frustrated with me or not, but I doubt the reason for their frustration is my "inconsistency".

I sometimes wonder how things would have evolved if Z only wounded T-Mart in the arm or leg after being attacked. Would have this even made the news? If it did it would only be a blurb in the local news.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Not a fan of Ted Nugent's political views (though a huge fan of some of his music!).

But look- you guys make the same mistake here that you did with the opinion piece I posted yesterday. I find it extremely unwise to dismiss someone's arguments simply because you don't like the person making them. If an article makes reasonable sense, who cares what the source is?

It's the same reason I don't have anyone on ignore.

Can I dismiss the opinion piece because he writes as if he knows exactly how the events of the night of Trayvon Martin's death went down? The entire column is written as if the version of the facts that best fits the argument he wants to make is exactly what happened, which anyone who's spent even ten minutes in this thread knows is impossible.

Can I dismiss the opinion piece because he draws an awful comparison between the Ku Klux Klan and urban violence? I assume people see the many problems with that comically dumb argument, yes?

Come on. The whole thing is completely misleading and worthless except for the "conclusion," which does not follow at all from any of the garbage spewed prior to it.

 

[cstu]

Abraham, we're not supposed to give them reparations and we're not supposed to feel guilty. We're supposed to try to understand, and help where it makes sense. Personally I think more money toward education would be a good place to start. I don't think Republicans in Congress should be cutting off food stamps just when people need it most.

And I don't believe racists like George Zimmerman (and yes, I believe he is a racist!) should be allowed to shoot an unarmed black teen without repercussions. He should be in jail for manslaughter right now. Our society is better than this.

Tim, please stop spouting talking points. How much more do we need to spend on Education? The real issue is making sure that what we spend on education is actually going to the classroom for better teachers and student focused curriculums. Public school systems are full of waste. Republicans are attempting to cut a percentage of the SNAP program that is equal to the amount of waste and fraud in the program. I believe they want to reduce funding by 3-5%. I would think that if 3-5% of the SNAP program is waste, fraud and abuse then the Dept of Agriculture and the State agencies that administer this program should look into clamping down harder on such abuse. That way the people that need the assistance will continue to get it and the people who game the system will be pushed out of it.

Tim, what evidence do you have to support your view that George Zimmerman is a racist? You yourself said that if you were on the jury you would have had to acquit him. But now your saying he should be in jail for manslaughter. The known facts dont support such a conclusion. Only your suppositions do. I think this is why some people get frustrated with you. Your all over the map sir. You are consistent in your inconsistency.

Sorry, I thought I had made myself very clear.

1. The reason I believe Zimmerman is a racist has to do with this case and his comments to 911 and his actions. It is also based on some earlier comments by friends and on MySpace that Zimmerman expressed racist attitudes (This came out over a year ago on Huffington Post, and I can't source it now, as much as I've tried.). I can't prove it, and in fact ArbyMelt has brought up some interesting facts that would seem to contradict my supposition. So I will suspend judgment for now. It doesn't change my frame of mind about this case. Even if he is the least racist person on Earth, he should not be allowed to shoot down an unarmed Trayvon Martin.

2. I believe that George Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter and should be in prison. But I allow for reasonable doubt, so I would have voted to acquit him. I disagree with you, however, that the known facts don't support such a conclusion (manslaughter). I strongly believe they do, and had the case been presented correctly, GZ would now stand convicted.

3. I really don't care if people get frustrated with me or not, but I doubt the reason for their frustration is my "inconsistency".

This was his comment on Myspace:

I dont miss driving around scared to hit mexicans walkin on the side of the street, soft ### wanna be thugs messin with peoples cars when they aint around (what are you provin, that you can dent a car when no ones watchin) dont make you a man in my book. Workin 96 hours to get a decent pay check, gettin knifes pulled on you by every mexican you run into!”

He was 20 when he wrote that. I can see how people who want to see him as racist will see that but it reads to me like a guy frustrated by criminals.

 

[timschochet]

Many of them just happen to disagree with your interpretation of their rights. That doesn't make them paranoid....

Why does one need the safety of a gun if they aren't paranoid?

Uh I can answer that. I carried a gun, briefly, while I worked. I carried large sums of cash and worked by myself in the early morning pre dawn hours and occassionally into the evening. I worked in a very high crime area. As a matter of fact the manager of one of the stores in the area I worked was just murdered at 9am on a Sunday morning. I wasnt paranoid, I was just being cautious. I made deliveries and was in and out of a truck all day. Some days I would work until 9pm and I might have $2-3K in cash on my person from the days deliveries. This was the neighborhood I grew up in. I wasnt paranoid of anything. I was just aware of my surroundings and the potential that I could be a victim of crime. In the time I worked my route 4 of my stores were robbed and one of my friends in one of those stores was shot after he had cooperated with the robber. That is why I carried a gun.

Good response. And BTW, I do NOT believe it is paranoid to carry a gun around- apparently that's BFS' view, not mine.

My use of that term was in reference to the political views of many gun-owners in recent years, specifically the viewpoint that the tyrannical government is lying in wait to seize all guns, and that every gun law, no matter how reasonably sounding, is a slippery slope toward that ultimate goal.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

blame education or poor parenting?

 

[Spanky267]

My wife tried using the logic that Zimm would pay for this for the rest of his life. This is the beginning of the ultimate fantasy of his life. Millions from CNN for a reality TV show, speaking gigs at NRA and Tea Party events. I think a run for Congress is probably in order as well.

All this says to me is the stalking and killing a black person in Florida is legal if you can get them to hit you first. And it's questionable that even that happened.

Looking over your shoulder every time you walk outside, worrying that your house can be torched at any minute, having people yell and threaten you. Not sure about you, but I find it difficult to see anyone wanting to be in his shoes.

and now he doesnt have the element of surprise...everyone knows he packs a piece

I believe the state revoked his concealed weapons permit. He wont get it back instantly even with the acquital.

 

[timschochet]

Not a fan of Ted Nugent's political views (though a huge fan of some of his music!).

But look- you guys make the same mistake here that you did with the opinion piece I posted yesterday. I find it extremely unwise to dismiss someone's arguments simply because you don't like the person making them. If an article makes reasonable sense, who cares what the source is?

It's the same reason I don't have anyone on ignore.

Can I dismiss the opinion piece because he writes as if he knows exactly how the events of the night of Trayvon Martin's death went down? The entire column is written as if the version of the facts that best fits the argument he wants to make is exactly what happened, which anyone who's spent even ten minutes in this thread knows is impossible.

Can I dismiss the opinion piece because he draws an awful comparison between the Ku Klux Klan and urban violence? I assume people see the many problems with that comically dumb argument, yes?

Come on. The whole thing is completely misleading and worthless except for the "conclusion," which does not follow at all from any of the garbage spewed prior to it.

Absolutely. Attack the content all you want. My point was that people dismissing it before reading it based on who the writer is shouldn't necessarily do so.

 

[cstu]

I sometimes wonder how things would have evolved if Z only wounded T-Mart in the arm or leg after being attacked. Would have this even made the news? If it did it would only be a blurb in the local news.

Zimmerman would never have been charged and no one would know about this story. Even if Trayvon was seriously wounded, but lived, it would never have made national news. Him being dead made him a perfect poster boy (at age 12).

 

[timschochet]

2. I believe that George Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter and should be in prison. But I allow for reasonable doubt, so I would have voted to acquit him.

WTH?

Why is this confusing? I think he did it. I can't prove it, so he walks.

 

[Thorn]

2. I believe that George Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter and should be in prison. But I allow for reasonable doubt, so I would have voted to acquit him.

WTH?

I think he means: "I think Zimmerman did commit manslaughter. However, I don't think the state proved that he did beyond a reasonable doubt, therefore 'not guilty.'"

 

[IvanKaramazov]

2. I believe that George Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter and should be in prison. But I allow for reasonable doubt, so I would have voted to acquit him.

WTH?

Why is this confusing? I think he did it. I can't prove it, so he walks.

So therefore you don't think he should be in prison and you would have found him Not Guilty of manslaughter.

 

[Spanky267]

As for Didi's interview on Piers Morgan, when asked about how she talks, she did say she has a bone structure problem for years that she's been putting off surgery for. This makes it tough for her to enunciate words clearly. That seems to explain her sounding like she's on drugs.

What then explains her inability to answer the questions asked of her. I had a severe lisp as a child and teenager. I sympathize on the word formation/enunciation front. But shes incoherent. Half of what she said in that interview made no sense what so ever. She tried to explain that "cracka" is not an epithet. I'm a native born Floridian. When blacks use it towards whites it is indeed an epithet in the same vein as when whites use the N-word toward blacks. It does not mean what she said it means. The Casey Anthony defense attorney was right in that at one time and among whites it does refer to native born Floridians and Georgians. But it has morphed in a sense in the opposite direction that the N-word has. Where once the term cracker was used as a source of pride it is now used to deride. The N-word seems to have traveled the opposite path.

At least on juror felt she didn't want to be there, was completely overwhelmed because she knew she was less educated and not nearly as articulate as she should be. She felt bad for the girl. I think it's clear that West got under her skin and that made things even worse.

Agreed in regards to her testimony on the stand. i think she was very nervous during her testimony. But she also came off as extremely disrespectful during the proceedings. The judge should have instructed her to speak and behave more respectfully to officers of the court.

My criticism above revolves more around her "interview" with Piers Morgan last night. That is where she tried to explain that "cracka" when used by african americans isnt a racial epithet.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

My wife tried using the logic that Zimm would pay for this for the rest of his life. This is the beginning of the ultimate fantasy of his life. Millions from CNN for a reality TV show, speaking gigs at NRA and Tea Party events. I think a run for Congress is probably in order as well.

All this says to me is the stalking and killing a black person in Florida is legal if you can get them to hit you first. And it's questionable that even that happened.

Looking over your shoulder every time you walk outside, worrying that your house can be torched at any minute, having people yell and threaten you. Not sure about you, but I find it difficult to see anyone wanting to be in his shoes.

and now he doesnt have the element of surprise...everyone knows he packs a piece

I believe the state revoked his concealed weapons permit. He wont get it back instantly even with the acquital.

I couldn't find anything on this, do you have a link? I know he was given his firearm back after being found Not Guilty, I believe before he left the courtroom that night.

 

[kentric]

So after a year and 466 pages we are still arguing the same points from Day 1.

I am shocked, SHOCKED I tell you.

Carolina Hustler 2183 timschochet 1791 Christo 1749 BustedKnuckles 1397 jon_mx 1355 Jojo the circus boy 1107

50 posts/page...

those 6 have posted a total of 191 pages and 32 posts worth of this thread...

assuming 1 minute per post, not including the time spent thinking about their replies and editing, that's approx. 160 hours wasted on this one thread. A full month of work.

It doesn't take a minute to post

I was going to post that if you exclude all Christo's that the average drops to 50 seconds. haha

Meant climbs to 1 min 10 secs.

 

[The Commish]

Not a fan of Ted Nugent's political views (though a huge fan of some of his music!).

But look- you guys make the same mistake here that you did with the opinion piece I posted yesterday. I find it extremely unwise to dismiss someone's arguments simply because you don't like the person making them. If an article makes reasonable sense, who cares what the source is?

It's the same reason I don't have anyone on ignore.

I find it very hard to believe you put deep thought into everything I say, or Jo Jo says or jon_mx says, or Mr Two Cents says on the possibility that we might be right about something.

 

[Spanky267]

2. I believe that George Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter and should be in prison. But I allow for reasonable doubt, so I would have voted to acquit him.

WTH?

 

[timschochet]

2. I believe that George Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter and should be in prison. But I allow for reasonable doubt, so I would have voted to acquit him.

WTH?

Why is this confusing? I think he did it. I can't prove it, so he walks.

So therefore you don't think he should be in prison and you would have found him Not Guilty of manslaughter.

I'm 95% sure he's guilty of manslaughter. I'm 95% sure he belongs in prison. The 5% of doubt, under our legal system, would force me to acquit him if I were on the jury.

HOWEVER- if I were on the jury of the upcoming civil trial, in which the standard is only 51%, Zimmerman would have to pay big time.

 

[The Commish]

As for Didi's interview on Piers Morgan, when asked about how she talks, she did say she has a bone structure problem for years that she's been putting off surgery for. This makes it tough for her to enunciate words clearly. That seems to explain her sounding like she's on drugs.

What then explains her inability to answer the questions asked of her. I had a severe lisp as a child and teenager. I sympathize on the word formation/enunciation front. But shes incoherent. Half of what she said in that interview made no sense what so ever. She tried to explain that "cracka" is not an epithet. I'm a native born Floridian. When blacks use it towards whites it is indeed an epithet in the same vein as when whites use the N-word toward blacks. It does not mean what she said it means. The Casey Anthony defense attorney was right in that at one time and among whites it does refer to native born Floridians and Georgians. But it has morphed in a sense in the opposite direction that the N-word has. Where once the term cracker was used as a source of pride it is now used to deride. The N-word seems to have traveled the opposite path.

At least on juror felt she didn't want to be there, was completely overwhelmed because she knew she was less educated and not nearly as articulate as she should be. She felt bad for the girl. I think it's clear that West got under her skin and that made things even worse.

What did Don West say to get under her skin?

Given what the juror describes, he didn't have to say anything specific. With an individual like DiDi it's enough that a man is standing in front of her grilling her with questions, trying to get her boyfriend's killer off. That alone is enough to get under her skin. Kinda thought that was obvious. Guess not.

"Grilling" and "boyfriend", interesting choice of words.

Really? You think she believed it was just a friendly little chat going on between two people in the courtroom? From the very beginning she was very defensive. I have to believe it was because she felt like she was being attacked or at the very least going to say something by mistake that got Treyvon in trouble. Not sure what's so interesting about that I don't think she was so dumb that she didn't understand what she was walking in to.

 

[kentric]

Abraham, we're not supposed to give them reparations and we're not supposed to feel guilty. We're supposed to try to understand, and help where it makes sense. Personally I think more money toward education would be a good place to start. I don't think Republicans in Congress should be cutting off food stamps just when people need it most.

And I don't believe racists like George Zimmerman (and yes, I believe he is a racist!) should be allowed to shoot an unarmed black teen without repercussions. He should be in jail for manslaughter right now. Our society is better than this.

I live in a county in NJ which includes an inner city. The inner city per student educational cost is 30%-40% higher on average than the surrounding towns and the city is still performing at a much lower rate. Throwing money at education is not working. You need to change the social structure of inner cities and invest in the economic well-being of the area before you can get any material benefit from education $.

 

[Clifford]

My wife tried using the logic that Zimm would pay for this for the rest of his life. This is the beginning of the ultimate fantasy of his life. Millions from CNN for a reality TV show, speaking gigs at NRA and Tea Party events. I think a run for Congress is probably in order as well.

All this says to me is the stalking and killing a black person in Florida is legal if you can get them to hit you first. And it's questionable that even that happened.

I highly doubt any of these happen. Congress? Nope. Reality show? Nope. Speaking gigs? For what? Nope.

This guy is a freaking hero for a quite large portion of this country's population. CNN reality show is a joke but I'd be shocked if the rest did not happen. A juror has already cut a book deal. Why wouldn't he?

I have not seen or heard any kind of hero worship concerning Zimmerman. Don't know where you are getting your info or anything but this guy is not going to make millions off of this story. Some people said Casey Anthony would make millions yet where is she? Zimmerman is going the same way as her. Not saying you are delusional but to suggest the above is going to happen is crazy talk.

Jurors don't have the backlash that the person who shot the gun have. Had I been on the jury, I would never speak of this again. I wouldn't even tell family members that I was on this case. No good can come of it.

Thinking a man acquitted of murder in one of the most high-profile cases ever could get a lucrative book deal is crazy talk. Ok.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_I_Did_It

 

[timschochet]

Not a fan of Ted Nugent's political views (though a huge fan of some of his music!).

But look- you guys make the same mistake here that you did with the opinion piece I posted yesterday. I find it extremely unwise to dismiss someone's arguments simply because you don't like the person making them. If an article makes reasonable sense, who cares what the source is?

It's the same reason I don't have anyone on ignore.

I find it very hard to believe you put deep thought into everything I say, or Jo Jo says or jon_mx says, or Mr Two Cents says on the possibility that we might be right about something.

Hey, you're the one who said even a broken clock is right twice a day.

In all seriousness, I try to read everyone who replies to me, or writes something pertinent to a topic I am interested in. You have made some very intelligent and interesting points in this thread, and so has Jojo (on occasion) and jon_mx. Jon has in particular changed my mind about a few specific issues in this case (for example, the screaming.) Mr. Two Cents, not so much. Though his posts in the gun control thread were illuminating (and highly amusing.)

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

As for Didi's interview on Piers Morgan, when asked about how she talks, she did say she has a bone structure problem for years that she's been putting off surgery for. This makes it tough for her to enunciate words clearly. That seems to explain her sounding like she's on drugs.

What then explains her inability to answer the questions asked of her. I had a severe lisp as a child and teenager. I sympathize on the word formation/enunciation front. But shes incoherent. Half of what she said in that interview made no sense what so ever. She tried to explain that "cracka" is not an epithet. I'm a native born Floridian. When blacks use it towards whites it is indeed an epithet in the same vein as when whites use the N-word toward blacks. It does not mean what she said it means. The Casey Anthony defense attorney was right in that at one time and among whites it does refer to native born Floridians and Georgians. But it has morphed in a sense in the opposite direction that the N-word has. Where once the term cracker was used as a source of pride it is now used to deride. The N-word seems to have traveled the opposite path.

At least on juror felt she didn't want to be there, was completely overwhelmed because she knew she was less educated and not nearly as articulate as she should be. She felt bad for the girl. I think it's clear that West got under her skin and that made things even worse.

What did Don West say to get under her skin?

Given what the juror describes, he didn't have to say anything specific. With an individual like DiDi it's enough that a man is standing in front of her grilling her with questions, trying to get her boyfriend's killer off. That alone is enough to get under her skin. Kinda thought that was obvious. Guess not.

"Grilling" and "boyfriend", interesting choice of words.

Really? You think she believed it was just a friendly little chat going on between two people in the courtroom? From the very beginning she was very defensive. I have to believe it was because she felt like she was being attacked or at the very least going to say something by mistake that got Treyvon in trouble. Not sure what's so interesting about that I don't think she was so dumb that she didn't understand what she was walking in to.

When you have no respect for authority and when you lie, those are also reasons to act "very defensive". She started the "yes SIR" B.S. at the very first question asked of her, if you don't find that disrespectful then I can't help you.

 

[The Commish]

As for Didi's interview on Piers Morgan, when asked about how she talks, she did say she has a bone structure problem for years that she's been putting off surgery for. This makes it tough for her to enunciate words clearly. That seems to explain her sounding like she's on drugs.

What then explains her inability to answer the questions asked of her. I had a severe lisp as a child and teenager. I sympathize on the word formation/enunciation front. But shes incoherent. Half of what she said in that interview made no sense what so ever. She tried to explain that "cracka" is not an epithet. I'm a native born Floridian. When blacks use it towards whites it is indeed an epithet in the same vein as when whites use the N-word toward blacks. It does not mean what she said it means. The Casey Anthony defense attorney was right in that at one time and among whites it does refer to native born Floridians and Georgians. But it has morphed in a sense in the opposite direction that the N-word has. Where once the term cracker was used as a source of pride it is now used to deride. The N-word seems to have traveled the opposite path.

At least on juror felt she didn't want to be there, was completely overwhelmed because she knew she was less educated and not nearly as articulate as she should be. She felt bad for the girl. I think it's clear that West got under her skin and that made things even worse.

Agreed in regards to her testimony on the stand. i think she was very nervous during her testimony. But she also came off as extremely disrespectful during the proceedings. The judge should have instructed her to speak and behave more respectfully to officers of the court.

My criticism above revolves more around her "interview" with Piers Morgan last night. That is where she tried to explain that "cracka" when used by african americans isnt a racial epithet.

Fair enough. I didn't watch any of that. I don't really care about any of the witnesses going forward. The trial's over. I am interested to hear more from the jury. The first interview was very enlightening and went along the narrative a lot of us were putting together throughout. I'm glad that race didn't seem to be part of the equation for the jury. I didn't really understand Tim's argument or the pro-Zimmerman argument that it should matter in regard to either person involved. I find the sweeping generalizations nauseating doesn't matter who they were directed towards.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Piers Morgan interview w/ DiDi

comments

 

[Spanky267]

My wife tried using the logic that Zimm would pay for this for the rest of his life. This is the beginning of the ultimate fantasy of his life. Millions from CNN for a reality TV show, speaking gigs at NRA and Tea Party events. I think a run for Congress is probably in order as well.

All this says to me is the stalking and killing a black person in Florida is legal if you can get them to hit you first. And it's questionable that even that happened.

Looking over your shoulder every time you walk outside, worrying that your house can be torched at any minute, having people yell and threaten you. Not sure about you, but I find it difficult to see anyone wanting to be in his shoes.

and now he doesnt have the element of surprise...everyone knows he packs a piece

I believe the state revoked his concealed weapons permit. He wont get it back instantly even with the acquital.

I couldn't find anything on this, do you have a link? I know he was given his firearm back after being found Not Guilty, I believe before he left the courtroom that night.

Yes he got the firearm back. But the right to the firearm does not equate to the right to carry concealed. You have to have a permit to do that in Florida. A little google search shows that his permit was most likely suspended when he was charged in the death of Martin. I apologize for misspeaking. It also appears that Shellie Zimmerman, George's wife had her permit suspended when the state charged her with perjury.

It looks like neither has actually had their permit revoked. Although I dont know the outcome of the perjury case. It appears that Zimmerman will get his permit reinstated after all.

 

[The Commish]

As for Didi's interview on Piers Morgan, when asked about how she talks, she did say she has a bone structure problem for years that she's been putting off surgery for. This makes it tough for her to enunciate words clearly. That seems to explain her sounding like she's on drugs.

What then explains her inability to answer the questions asked of her. I had a severe lisp as a child and teenager. I sympathize on the word formation/enunciation front. But shes incoherent. Half of what she said in that interview made no sense what so ever. She tried to explain that "cracka" is not an epithet. I'm a native born Floridian. When blacks use it towards whites it is indeed an epithet in the same vein as when whites use the N-word toward blacks. It does not mean what she said it means. The Casey Anthony defense attorney was right in that at one time and among whites it does refer to native born Floridians and Georgians. But it has morphed in a sense in the opposite direction that the N-word has. Where once the term cracker was used as a source of pride it is now used to deride. The N-word seems to have traveled the opposite path.

At least on juror felt she didn't want to be there, was completely overwhelmed because she knew she was less educated and not nearly as articulate as she should be. She felt bad for the girl. I think it's clear that West got under her skin and that made things even worse.

What did Don West say to get under her skin?

Given what the juror describes, he didn't have to say anything specific. With an individual like DiDi it's enough that a man is standing in front of her grilling her with questions, trying to get her boyfriend's killer off. That alone is enough to get under her skin. Kinda thought that was obvious. Guess not.

"Grilling" and "boyfriend", interesting choice of words.

Really? You think she believed it was just a friendly little chat going on between two people in the courtroom? From the very beginning she was very defensive. I have to believe it was because she felt like she was being attacked or at the very least going to say something by mistake that got Treyvon in trouble. Not sure what's so interesting about that I don't think she was so dumb that she didn't understand what she was walking in to.

When you have no respect for authority and when you lie, those are also reasons to act "very defensive". She started the "yes SIR" B.S. at the very first question asked of her, if you don't find that disrespectful then I can't help you.

If you'd like to have that discussion, we can. Not sure why you are moving the goal posts yet again...your back has to be tired by now. There's no question she had an attitude. I was offering a few suggestions as to why she had that attitude (by trying to put myself in her shoes), not a comprehensive list. You guys should really make up your minds on her though. Was she lying or was she not? I've seen reversals by you and your kind probably 10 times in this thread. I stated clearly from the beginning I didn't really believe a word she said and gave a bunch of reasons. I pretty much listened and dismissed her as the jury did. Why you keep harping on it is beyond me.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I saw this elsewhere:

Top 10 misconceptions and unsubstantiated claims regarding the Zimmerman-Martin Incident

1. "George Zimmerman approached Trayvon Martin with his gun in hand."

There is no evidence to substantiate this claim. Zimmerman claims the gun was exposed while he was being beaten by Trayvon Martin, and it was during that time it was taken out and used. Ballistic evidence stated during the trial confirms that it was consistent with Trayvon Martin being the one on top when the weapon was fired, and no evidence has been submitted to the contrary.

2. "George Zimmerman ignored an order to not follow Trayvon Martin and initiated the physical confrontation."

He was not ordered not to follow Trayvon Martin. The 911 dispatcher said "We don't need you to do that." This is a standard response they give callers in order to protect the safety of the caller. It is not an order and there are never legally-binding repercussions for not following the suggestion. In addition, George Zimmerman claims he was no longer following Trayvon Martin after that time, that he encountered Trayvon Martin while walking back to his car after finishing the 911 call.

There is no evidence to suggest that Zimmerman initiated the physical confrontation. None was offered by the prosecution or its witnesses. Zimmerman claims a few words of hostility were expressed toward him from Trayvon and he was then attacked by Trayvon.

3. "The whole reason Zimmerman got off was because of the Stand Your Ground law in Florida."

Incorrect. The Stand Your Ground law was not used by the defense to justify Zimmerman's actions. SYG says that in a situation where you have a choice between facing a potentially dangerous confrontation with another individual and fleeing, you have the right to face the situation and use force if necessary to defend yourself. Since Zimmerman claims he was pinned on the ground by Trayvon Martin at the time he fired his weapon, there was no opportunity to flee, and therefore the SYG law does not apply. Instead, the standard rule of self-defense applies, where a person has the right to use force to defend himself if he has no option to flee. This right is guaranteed in every state, not just Florida.

4. "George Zimmerman is a racist."

There is substantial evidence to the contrary. He filed a request with the NAACP to assist in protesting the beating of a homeless black man by the son of a police officer who had gone unpunished, and partook in making a big stink about the issue when the NAACP refused to help. This is not something that a person who harbors an inner hatred of black people would do.

5. "George Zimmerman appointed himself as crusader of justice in the neighborhood and bought a gun to be the neighborhood vigilante."

Actually, in 2011 the Retreat at Twin Lakes community held a meeting to create a neighborhood watch program and George Zimmerman was selected by the community to be the program's coordinator. He purchased the gun back in 2009 on the suggestion of an animal control officer. The area had been having problems with a loose and threatening pit-bull, which at one time had behaved threatening toward Zimmerman's wife.

6. "I can get a fair understanding of this incident by watching the news on TV."

Demonstrably questionable. MSNBC was caught red-handed having edited a section of the 911 tape in order to make Zimmerman appear racist. They had no choice but to apologize to Zimmerman and fire two employees responsible for it. In addition, virtually every news organization has used a photo of Trayvon Martin dated to 5 years prior the shooting, when he was 12. Nobody has yet offered a reason why they would use this photo instead of a more recent one, except to garner sympathy for Trayvon Martin.

7. "The supporters for George Zimmerman have unfairly tried to make Trayvon Martin the one on trial by attacking his character with allegations of violence and drug use."

The reasoning for this is quite simple. Two people who wish not to get in a fight will not get in a fight. If George Zimmerman did not want a fight, it requires that Trayvon Martin did. Therefore, arguing against claims that Zimmerman initiated the attack requires making the argument that Trayvon Martin started it, and establishing a pattern of behavior supporting that is completely valid.

8. "George Zimmerman racially profiled Trayvon Martin and should not have done that."

In the 14 months prior to Trayvon's death, the Retreat at Twin Lakes community was subjected to 8 confirmed burglaries, in addition to dozens of other incidents that were unreported to police. In nearly every single circumstance, all of the captured thieves and suspects were teenage black males (there was one incident where 3 black males and 1 white male were the suspects). There were frequent reports of these suspects wandering in yards and peering into houses. George Zimmerman was suspicious of Trayvon Martin because Trayvon Martin fit the profile exactly, including wandering in yards and appearing to look into houses. Zimmerman's responsibility in his position with the neighborhood watch program required him to be suspicious of this. In addition, less than one month prior to Trayvon's death, George Zimmerman had called the police about another black teenage male engaging in similar behavior, and chose not to follow the suspect. As a result, the suspect escaped before the police arrived.

9. "George Zimmerman is lying in all his claims about what happened that night."

No-one except Zimmerman knows what actually happened as nearly all of his activity was unobserved by witnesses. There is no evidence provided by the prosecution or witnesses to counter any of the claims made by the defense in the court room as far as what Zimmerman did or where he was at specific times. Of the minimal amount of evidence that can be recovered from the scene (witnesses during the fight, ballistics evidence, and corroboration between the 911 call and where Zimmerman claims he was during each part of the call), it fully backs up Zimmerman's claims. And, because our court-system is based on innocence-until-proven-guilty, accusing Zimmerman of lying in his claims requires evidence to the contrary of what he has said.

10. "He was found not guilty because the prosecutor was poor quality / because the jury was racist."

Florida Governor Rick Scott went out of his way to select the best prosecutor he could find for the case, hiring State Attorney Angela Corey, who hired 3 other attorneys of her choice, including Bernie De la Rionda who had been a prosecutor for 29 years. They did not just appoint some incompetent run-of-the-mill attorney to prosecute the case as many seem to allege.

Regarding claims that the jury was racist... this jury was selected and approved as unbiased by both the defense and prosecution. In a trial, both sides have the ability during jury selection process to disqualify potential jurors based on how they answer pretrial questionnaires and inquiry by the lawyers and judge. Furthermore, there is no evidence offered to suggest that any of the jurors harbor racist feelings.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

As for Didi's interview on Piers Morgan, when asked about how she talks, she did say she has a bone structure problem for years that she's been putting off surgery for. This makes it tough for her to enunciate words clearly. That seems to explain her sounding like she's on drugs.

What then explains her inability to answer the questions asked of her. I had a severe lisp as a child and teenager. I sympathize on the word formation/enunciation front. But shes incoherent. Half of what she said in that interview made no sense what so ever. She tried to explain that "cracka" is not an epithet. I'm a native born Floridian. When blacks use it towards whites it is indeed an epithet in the same vein as when whites use the N-word toward blacks. It does not mean what she said it means. The Casey Anthony defense attorney was right in that at one time and among whites it does refer to native born Floridians and Georgians. But it has morphed in a sense in the opposite direction that the N-word has. Where once the term cracker was used as a source of pride it is now used to deride. The N-word seems to have traveled the opposite path.

At least on juror felt she didn't want to be there, was completely overwhelmed because she knew she was less educated and not nearly as articulate as she should be. She felt bad for the girl. I think it's clear that West got under her skin and that made things even worse.

What did Don West say to get under her skin?

Given what the juror describes, he didn't have to say anything specific. With an individual like DiDi it's enough that a man is standing in front of her grilling her with questions, trying to get her boyfriend's killer off. That alone is enough to get under her skin. Kinda thought that was obvious. Guess not.

"Grilling" and "boyfriend", interesting choice of words.

Really? You think she believed it was just a friendly little chat going on between two people in the courtroom? From the very beginning she was very defensive. I have to believe it was because she felt like she was being attacked or at the very least going to say something by mistake that got Treyvon in trouble. Not sure what's so interesting about that I don't think she was so dumb that she didn't understand what she was walking in to.

When you have no respect for authority and when you lie, those are also reasons to act "very defensive". She started the "yes SIR" B.S. at the very first question asked of her, if you don't find that disrespectful then I can't help you.

If you'd like to have that discussion, we can. Not sure why you are moving the goal posts yet again...your back has to be tired by now. There's no question she had an attitude. I was offering a few suggestions as to why she had that attitude (by trying to put myself in her shoes), not a comprehensive list. You guys should really make up your minds on her though. Was she lying or was she not? I've seen reversals by you and your kind probably 10 times in this thread. I stated clearly from the beginning I didn't really believe a word she said and gave a bunch of reasons. I pretty much listened and dismissed her as the jury did. Why you keep harping on it is beyond me.

Before you change your tune, you should stop making excuses for her.

 

[timschochet]

Abraham, we're not supposed to give them reparations and we're not supposed to feel guilty. We're supposed to try to understand, and help where it makes sense. Personally I think more money toward education would be a good place to start. I don't think Republicans in Congress should be cutting off food stamps just when people need it most.

And I don't believe racists like George Zimmerman (and yes, I believe he is a racist!) should be allowed to shoot an unarmed black teen without repercussions. He should be in jail for manslaughter right now. Our society is better than this.

I live in a county in NJ which includes an inner city. The inner city per student educational cost is 30%-40% higher on average than the surrounding towns and the city is still performing at a much lower rate. Throwing money at education is not working. You need to change the social structure of inner cities and invest in the economic well-being of the area before you can get any material benefit from education $.

There have been a lot of comments about this post of a similar vein. We probably should discuss it in a different thread. My only comment is that it will take a combination of factors to truly improve things, but more money is IMO definitely one of the most important (though not sufficient by itself).

 

[jamny]

What's interesting is if you listen to Zimmermans 911 call, he's not even positive that Trayvon is black when he made the call. He says "he looks black" which to me seems to sound like he's not positive at that point. It isn't until Trayvon comes towards him in his car that GZ makes an affirmative statement of "he's a black male"

 

[timschochet]

I saw this elsewhere:

Top 10 misconceptions and unsubstantiated claims regarding the Zimmerman-Martin Incident

1. "George Zimmerman approached Trayvon Martin with his gun in hand."

There is no evidence to substantiate this claim. Zimmerman claims the gun was exposed while he was being beaten by Trayvon Martin, and it was during that time it was taken out and used. Ballistic evidence stated during the trial confirms that it was consistent with Trayvon Martin being the one on top when the weapon was fired, and no evidence has been submitted to the contrary.

2. "George Zimmerman ignored an order to not follow Trayvon Martin and initiated the physical confrontation."

He was not ordered not to follow Trayvon Martin. The 911 dispatcher said "We don't need you to do that." This is a standard response they give callers in order to protect the safety of the caller. It is not an order and there are never legally-binding repercussions for not following the suggestion. In addition, George Zimmerman claims he was no longer following Trayvon Martin after that time, that he encountered Trayvon Martin while walking back to his car after finishing the 911 call.

There is no evidence to suggest that Zimmerman initiated the physical confrontation. None was offered by the prosecution or its witnesses. Zimmerman claims a few words of hostility were expressed toward him from Trayvon and he was then attacked by Trayvon.

3. "The whole reason Zimmerman got off was because of the Stand Your Ground law in Florida."

Incorrect. The Stand Your Ground law was not used by the defense to justify Zimmerman's actions. SYG says that in a situation where you have a choice between facing a potentially dangerous confrontation with another individual and fleeing, you have the right to face the situation and use force if necessary to defend yourself. Since Zimmerman claims he was pinned on the ground by Trayvon Martin at the time he fired his weapon, there was no opportunity to flee, and therefore the SYG law does not apply. Instead, the standard rule of self-defense applies, where a person has the right to use force to defend himself if he has no option to flee. This right is guaranteed in every state, not just Florida.

4. "George Zimmerman is a racist."

There is substantial evidence to the contrary. He filed a request with the NAACP to assist in protesting the beating of a homeless black man by the son of a police officer who had gone unpunished, and partook in making a big stink about the issue when the NAACP refused to help. This is not something that a person who harbors an inner hatred of black people would do.

5. "George Zimmerman appointed himself as crusader of justice in the neighborhood and bought a gun to be the neighborhood vigilante."

Actually, in 2011 the Retreat at Twin Lakes community held a meeting to create a neighborhood watch program and George Zimmerman was selected by the community to be the program's coordinator. He purchased the gun back in 2009 on the suggestion of an animal control officer. The area had been having problems with a loose and threatening pit-bull, which at one time had behaved threatening toward Zimmerman's wife.

6. "I can get a fair understanding of this incident by watching the news on TV."

Demonstrably questionable. MSNBC was caught red-handed having edited a section of the 911 tape in order to make Zimmerman appear racist. They had no choice but to apologize to Zimmerman and fire two employees responsible for it. In addition, virtually every news organization has used a photo of Trayvon Martin dated to 5 years prior the shooting, when he was 12. Nobody has yet offered a reason why they would use this photo instead of a more recent one, except to garner sympathy for Trayvon Martin.

7. "The supporters for George Zimmerman have unfairly tried to make Trayvon Martin the one on trial by attacking his character with allegations of violence and drug use."

The reasoning for this is quite simple. Two people who wish not to get in a fight will not get in a fight. If George Zimmerman did not want a fight, it requires that Trayvon Martin did. Therefore, arguing against claims that Zimmerman initiated the attack requires making the argument that Trayvon Martin started it, and establishing a pattern of behavior supporting that is completely valid.

8. "George Zimmerman racially profiled Trayvon Martin and should not have done that."

In the 14 months prior to Trayvon's death, the Retreat at Twin Lakes community was subjected to 8 confirmed burglaries, in addition to dozens of other incidents that were unreported to police. In nearly every single circumstance, all of the captured thieves and suspects were teenage black males (there was one incident where 3 black males and 1 white male were the suspects). There were frequent reports of these suspects wandering in yards and peering into houses. George Zimmerman was suspicious of Trayvon Martin because Trayvon Martin fit the profile exactly, including wandering in yards and appearing to look into houses. Zimmerman's responsibility in his position with the neighborhood watch program required him to be suspicious of this. In addition, less than one month prior to Trayvon's death, George Zimmerman had called the police about another black teenage male engaging in similar behavior, and chose not to follow the suspect. As a result, the suspect escaped before the police arrived.

9. "George Zimmerman is lying in all his claims about what happened that night."

No-one except Zimmerman knows what actually happened as nearly all of his activity was unobserved by witnesses. There is no evidence provided by the prosecution or witnesses to counter any of the claims made by the defense in the court room as far as what Zimmerman did or where he was at specific times. Of the minimal amount of evidence that can be recovered from the scene (witnesses during the fight, ballistics evidence, and corroboration between the 911 call and where Zimmerman claims he was during each part of the call), it fully backs up Zimmerman's claims. And, because our court-system is based on innocence-until-proven-guilty, accusing Zimmerman of lying in his claims requires evidence to the contrary of what he has said.

10. "He was found not guilty because the prosecutor was poor quality / because the jury was racist."

Florida Governor Rick Scott went out of his way to select the best prosecutor he could find for the case, hiring State Attorney Angela Corey, who hired 3 other attorneys of her choice, including Bernie De la Rionda who had been a prosecutor for 29 years. They did not just appoint some incompetent run-of-the-mill attorney to prosecute the case as many seem to allege.

Regarding claims that the jury was racist... this jury was selected and approved as unbiased by both the defense and prosecution. In a trial, both sides have the ability during jury selection process to disqualify potential jurors based on how they answer pretrial questionnaires and inquiry by the lawyers and judge. Furthermore, there is no evidence offered to suggest that any of the jurors harbor racist feelings.

Wow. Talk about knocking down straw men. Who is arguing that the jury was racist?

 

[The Commish]

As for Didi's interview on Piers Morgan, when asked about how she talks, she did say she has a bone structure problem for years that she's been putting off surgery for. This makes it tough for her to enunciate words clearly. That seems to explain her sounding like she's on drugs.

What then explains her inability to answer the questions asked of her. I had a severe lisp as a child and teenager. I sympathize on the word formation/enunciation front. But shes incoherent. Half of what she said in that interview made no sense what so ever. She tried to explain that "cracka" is not an epithet. I'm a native born Floridian. When blacks use it towards whites it is indeed an epithet in the same vein as when whites use the N-word toward blacks. It does not mean what she said it means. The Casey Anthony defense attorney was right in that at one time and among whites it does refer to native born Floridians and Georgians. But it has morphed in a sense in the opposite direction that the N-word has. Where once the term cracker was used as a source of pride it is now used to deride. The N-word seems to have traveled the opposite path.

At least on juror felt she didn't want to be there, was completely overwhelmed because she knew she was less educated and not nearly as articulate as she should be. She felt bad for the girl. I think it's clear that West got under her skin and that made things even worse.

What did Don West say to get under her skin?

Given what the juror describes, he didn't have to say anything specific. With an individual like DiDi it's enough that a man is standing in front of her grilling her with questions, trying to get her boyfriend's killer off. That alone is enough to get under her skin. Kinda thought that was obvious. Guess not.

"Grilling" and "boyfriend", interesting choice of words.

Really? You think she believed it was just a friendly little chat going on between two people in the courtroom? From the very beginning she was very defensive. I have to believe it was because she felt like she was being attacked or at the very least going to say something by mistake that got Treyvon in trouble. Not sure what's so interesting about that I don't think she was so dumb that she didn't understand what she was walking in to.

When you have no respect for authority and when you lie, those are also reasons to act "very defensive". She started the "yes SIR" B.S. at the very first question asked of her, if you don't find that disrespectful then I can't help you.

If you'd like to have that discussion, we can. Not sure why you are moving the goal posts yet again...your back has to be tired by now. There's no question she had an attitude. I was offering a few suggestions as to why she had that attitude (by trying to put myself in her shoes), not a comprehensive list. You guys should really make up your minds on her though. Was she lying or was she not? I've seen reversals by you and your kind probably 10 times in this thread. I stated clearly from the beginning I didn't really believe a word she said and gave a bunch of reasons. I pretty much listened and dismissed her as the jury did. Why you keep harping on it is beyond me.

Before you change your tune, you should stop making excuses for her.

If attempting to put myself in her shoes is making excuses, I'm fine with that...especially coming from you. You continue to attack that straw man, but it has to pretty much be just a lump of straw by now.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Who is arguing that the jury was racist?


Rachel Jeantel all but called them racist last night on CNN (saying they found Zimmerman not guilty because they were all white IS a racist comment).