Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (2 Viewers)

[Mister CIA]

Feds take evidence related to Zimmerman trial, including gun
(CNN) -- Florida authorities have delivered all evidence related to the George Zimmerman investigation to federal officials, who are weighing whether to pursue a civil rights case.

The Sanford Police Department said it turned over all evidence, including a gun, to the Department of Justice on Monday.

Justice officials are investigating whether Zimmerman violated Trayvon Martin's civil rights when he shot the African-American teenager.

Attorney General Eric Holder has said the Justice Department will "act in a manner that is consistent with the facts and the law." Holder described Martin's shooting as " tragic, unnecessary," and said a thorough investigation will be conducted.Zimmerman helps family out of overturned SUVZimmerman, a former neighborhood watch volunteer, was acquitted of second-degree murder and manslaughter charges on July 13 after claiming he fired in self-defense. The shooting occurred in February last year.

"Independent of the legal determination that will be made, I believe that this tragedy provides yet another opportunity for our nation to speak honestly about the complicated and emotionally charged issues that this case has raised," Holder said last week. "We must not -- as we have too often in the past -- let this opportunity pass."

Justice officials opened an investigation into the Zimmerman case last year and will include testimony from the Florida trial.

Various civil rights groups have protested nationwide to demand the Justice Department bring federal charges against Zimmerman.

Holder is nuttier than Tim on this issue.

I'm trying to figure out why they need a gun for a profiling case? Do they thing GZ had engraved on the gun "N#####s must die!" and somehow the prosecution missed it?

Because "profiling" isn't a crime. Under Federal law, the Justice Department is going to have to prove Zimmerman shot Martin because he was black.

I'm not a law scholar by any stretch, and I can't possibly keep up with all of the posts in this thread, so please pardon me if I am asking something already asked and answered.

Is the charge of violating one's civil rights a criminal case, or is it strictly a civil case (where punishment could be doled out against Zimmerman's wallet)?

 

[Rayderr]

Feds take evidence related to Zimmerman trial, including gun
(CNN) -- Florida authorities have delivered all evidence related to the George Zimmerman investigation to federal officials, who are weighing whether to pursue a civil rights case.

The Sanford Police Department said it turned over all evidence, including a gun, to the Department of Justice on Monday.

Justice officials are investigating whether Zimmerman violated Trayvon Martin's civil rights when he shot the African-American teenager.

Attorney General Eric Holder has said the Justice Department will "act in a manner that is consistent with the facts and the law." Holder described Martin's shooting as " tragic, unnecessary," and said a thorough investigation will be conducted.Zimmerman helps family out of overturned SUVZimmerman, a former neighborhood watch volunteer, was acquitted of second-degree murder and manslaughter charges on July 13 after claiming he fired in self-defense. The shooting occurred in February last year.

"Independent of the legal determination that will be made, I believe that this tragedy provides yet another opportunity for our nation to speak honestly about the complicated and emotionally charged issues that this case has raised," Holder said last week. "We must not -- as we have too often in the past -- let this opportunity pass."

Justice officials opened an investigation into the Zimmerman case last year and will include testimony from the Florida trial.

Various civil rights groups have protested nationwide to demand the Justice Department bring federal charges against Zimmerman.

Holder is nuttier than Tim on this issue.

I'm trying to figure out why they need a gun for a profiling case? Do they thing GZ had engraved on the gun "N#####s must die!" and somehow the prosecution missed it?

Because "profiling" isn't a crime. Under Federal law, the Justice Department is going to have to prove Zimmerman shot Martin because he was black.

How does the gun prove that? The fact that Zimmerman shot Trayvon is not debatable. How does the gun show motive?

 

[Christo]

Feds take evidence related to Zimmerman trial, including gun
(CNN) -- Florida authorities have delivered all evidence related to the George Zimmerman investigation to federal officials, who are weighing whether to pursue a civil rights case.

The Sanford Police Department said it turned over all evidence, including a gun, to the Department of Justice on Monday.

Justice officials are investigating whether Zimmerman violated Trayvon Martin's civil rights when he shot the African-American teenager.

Attorney General Eric Holder has said the Justice Department will "act in a manner that is consistent with the facts and the law." Holder described Martin's shooting as " tragic, unnecessary," and said a thorough investigation will be conducted.Zimmerman helps family out of overturned SUVZimmerman, a former neighborhood watch volunteer, was acquitted of second-degree murder and manslaughter charges on July 13 after claiming he fired in self-defense. The shooting occurred in February last year.

"Independent of the legal determination that will be made, I believe that this tragedy provides yet another opportunity for our nation to speak honestly about the complicated and emotionally charged issues that this case has raised," Holder said last week. "We must not -- as we have too often in the past -- let this opportunity pass."

Justice officials opened an investigation into the Zimmerman case last year and will include testimony from the Florida trial.

Various civil rights groups have protested nationwide to demand the Justice Department bring federal charges against Zimmerman.

Holder is nuttier than Tim on this issue.

I'm trying to figure out why they need a gun for a profiling case? Do they thing GZ had engraved on the gun "N#####s must die!" and somehow the prosecution missed it?

Because "profiling" isn't a crime. Under Federal law, the Justice Department is going to have to prove Zimmerman shot Martin because he was black.

I'm not a law scholar by any stretch, and I can't possibly keep up with all of the posts in this thread, so please pardon me if I am asking something already asked and answered.

Is the charge of violating one's civil rights a criminal case, or is it strictly a civil case (where punishment could be doled out against Zimmerman's wallet)?

The DOJ can bring a criminal or civil case. But it's my understanding that civil cases are usually brought against organizations rather than individuals. If they successfully prosecuted Zimmerman in a criminal case they can ask that he be ordered to pay restitution as part of his sentence.

Another issue they have to consider is that to get a criminal conviction, they must get a unanimous verdict from 12 jurors.

 

[Christo]

Feds take evidence related to Zimmerman trial, including gun
(CNN) -- Florida authorities have delivered all evidence related to the George Zimmerman investigation to federal officials, who are weighing whether to pursue a civil rights case.

The Sanford Police Department said it turned over all evidence, including a gun, to the Department of Justice on Monday.

Justice officials are investigating whether Zimmerman violated Trayvon Martin's civil rights when he shot the African-American teenager.

Attorney General Eric Holder has said the Justice Department will "act in a manner that is consistent with the facts and the law." Holder described Martin's shooting as " tragic, unnecessary," and said a thorough investigation will be conducted.Zimmerman helps family out of overturned SUVZimmerman, a former neighborhood watch volunteer, was acquitted of second-degree murder and manslaughter charges on July 13 after claiming he fired in self-defense. The shooting occurred in February last year.

"Independent of the legal determination that will be made, I believe that this tragedy provides yet another opportunity for our nation to speak honestly about the complicated and emotionally charged issues that this case has raised," Holder said last week. "We must not -- as we have too often in the past -- let this opportunity pass."

Justice officials opened an investigation into the Zimmerman case last year and will include testimony from the Florida trial.

Various civil rights groups have protested nationwide to demand the Justice Department bring federal charges against Zimmerman.

Holder is nuttier than Tim on this issue.

I'm trying to figure out why they need a gun for a profiling case? Do they thing GZ had engraved on the gun "N#####s must die!" and somehow the prosecution missed it?

Because "profiling" isn't a crime. Under Federal law, the Justice Department is going to have to prove Zimmerman shot Martin because he was black.

How does the gun prove that? The fact that Zimmerman shot Trayvon is not debatable. How does the gun show motive?

The gun is evidence of the alleged crime.

 

[Slapdash]

How many lives does Zimmerman have to save before people will just leave him alone? Eric Holder, I'm talking to you!

 

[Chaos Commish]

So...in 505 pages, has anyone got another person to agree on their side of things?

I wouldn't say someone here in this thread converted me, but I joined the thread ready to lock up George for life, got a whiff of the socially engineered bs in about two pages and changed my mind. I'll give Christo credit if it helps. Also there's been a few like me, switching from ignorant to informed, but I don't think there's been any who went from Zim to Martin.

 

[Mr Two Cents]

11 user(s) are reading this topic10 members, 0 guests, 1 anonymous users

• zDragon, jonessed, avoiding injuries, identikit, jon_mx, Rayderr, timschochet, Dr Oadi, carverlee, Hang 10

tim, I've had instances of sexual intercourse that have last longer than your self-proclaimed exits from this thread.

At least someone gets pleasure from you, Tim - Not so much.

 

[Joe McGee]

I started out thinking out Zimmerman was guilty when I joined this thread but Tim's posts made me realize he was innocent.

 

[gcoast3]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ywauUc-ZhbA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DywauUc-ZhbA

Piers Morgan and Larry Elder.

Good stuff.

 

[CurlyNight]

Aside from OJ I'm sure, is this the longest thread about a murder case? Is this thread being profiled??

 

[Joe McGee]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ywauUc-ZhbA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DywauUc-ZhbA

Piers Morgan and Larry Elder.

Good stuff.

3% of the population committing 50% of the murders in the country? Ouch.

 

[avoiding injuries]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ywauUc-ZhbA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DywauUc-ZhbA

Piers Morgan and Larry Elder.

Good stuff.

3% of the population committing 50% of the murders in the country? Ouch.

I had trouble following his math on how he got it from 12% down to 6%. Larry is a fast talker.

 

[jon_mx]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ywauUc-ZhbA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DywauUc-ZhbA

Piers Morgan and Larry Elder.

Good stuff.

3% of the population committing 50% of the murders in the country? Ouch.

I had trouble following his math on how he got it from 12% down to 6%. Larry is a fast talker.

Divided by 2?

 

[avoiding injuries]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ywauUc-ZhbA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DywauUc-ZhbA

Piers Morgan and Larry Elder.

Good stuff.

3% of the population committing 50% of the murders in the country? Ouch.

I had trouble following his math on how he got it from 12% down to 6%. Larry is a fast talker.

Divided by 2?

If it wasn't an 11 minute video I'd watch it again to find the spot. He did divide it, but the number on the other side (50%) didn't change. He got down to 3% by eliminating old and young black people.

 

[avoiding injuries]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ywauUc-ZhbA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DywauUc-ZhbA

Piers Morgan and Larry Elder.

Good stuff.

3% of the population committing 50% of the murders in the country? Ouch.

I had trouble following his math on how he got it from 12% down to 6%. Larry is a fast talker.

Divided by 2?

If it wasn't an 11 minute video I'd watch it again to find the spot. He did divide it, but the number on the other side (50%) didn't change. He got down to 3% by eliminating old and young black people.

Women?

 

[Loan Sharks]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ywauUc-ZhbA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DywauUc-ZhbA

Piers Morgan and Larry Elder.

Good stuff.

3% of the population committing 50% of the murders in the country? Ouch.

I had trouble following his math on how he got it from 12% down to 6%. Larry is a fast talker.

I thought he went from 12% of the American population to 6% by throwing out the young and old, then I took it to mean of the 6% half were male and that 3% of the american population (adult Black males) were committing 50% of all murders. But I am to lazy to go back and listen to it again.

 

[renesauz]

Tim,

If the judge had allowed Martin's twitter posts in as evidence showing Martin was prone to fighting, it would have given more than enough credence to Zimmerman's claims that even a jury of six mothers would have acquitted him in under an hour. A lot of evidence that SHOULD have been presented was disallowed, and every bit of it made Zimmerman's story more and more credible.

Despite that, the jury still got it right. Despite that, you still argue that Zimmerman must have been guilty, even if by the letter of the law they probably did it right.

Dude.....I don't know how that branch is holding you but it's a good thing you're pretty much alone on it.

You have a lot of respectable opinions on race matters that many people agree with (I don't, but they are common and respectable opinions with legitimate arguments), but this case is an absolute dog. It isn't the right case to base the discussions on because it was so incredibly butchered by the media from day one, with too many emotions, not enough logic, and ultimately, a villain who not only was found innocent, but whom many very reasonable people are convinced actually WAS innocent (unlike OJ). Worse, the victim in this case was a criminal himself, suspended from school for theft, positive for drugs, flashed gang signs on facebook, and bragged several times about street fighting on twitter. He is simply a horrible example of an "innocent victim"...even if he were really the victim (which is highly debateable, even if you disagree as evidenced by this 505 page thread.)

Find another case to use to make your points. This one is a dog, and using it for that purpose is counter-productive, DESPITE the media attention, or perhaps, because of it.

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

Tim,

If the judge had allowed Martin's twitter posts in as evidence showing Martin was prone to fighting, it would have given more than enough credence to Zimmerman's claims that even a jury of six mothers would have acquitted him in under an hour. A lot of evidence that SHOULD have been presented was disallowed, and every bit of it made Zimmerman's story more and more credible.

Despite that, the jury still got it right. Despite that, you still argue that Zimmerman must have been guilty, even if by the letter of the law they probably did it right.

Dude.....I don't know how that branch is holding you but it's a good thing you're pretty much alone on it.

You have a lot of respectable opinions on race matters that many people agree with (I don't, but they are common and respectable opinions with legitimate arguments), but this case is an absolute dog. It isn't the right case to base the discussions on because it was so incredibly butchered by the media from day one, with too many emotions, not enough logic, and ultimately, a villain who not only was found innocent, but whom many very reasonable people are convinced actually WAS innocent (unlike OJ). Worse, the victim in this case was a criminal himself, suspended from school for theft, positive for drugs, flashed gang signs on facebook, and bragged several times about street fighting on twitter. He is simply a horrible example of an "innocent victim"...even if he were really the victim (which is highly debateable, even if you disagree as evidenced by this 505 page thread.)

Find another case to use to make your points. This one is a dog, and using it for that purpose is counter-productive, DESPITE the media attention, or perhaps, because of it.

Not only that, but he was also a young black male in a predominantly white neighborhood, which was suspicious from day one.

 

[jon_mx]

Tim,

If the judge had allowed Martin's twitter posts in as evidence showing Martin was prone to fighting, it would have given more than enough credence to Zimmerman's claims that even a jury of six mothers would have acquitted him in under an hour. A lot of evidence that SHOULD have been presented was disallowed, and every bit of it made Zimmerman's story more and more credible.

Despite that, the jury still got it right. Despite that, you still argue that Zimmerman must have been guilty, even if by the letter of the law they probably did it right.

Dude.....I don't know how that branch is holding you but it's a good thing you're pretty much alone on it.

You have a lot of respectable opinions on race matters that many people agree with (I don't, but they are common and respectable opinions with legitimate arguments), but this case is an absolute dog. It isn't the right case to base the discussions on because it was so incredibly butchered by the media from day one, with too many emotions, not enough logic, and ultimately, a villain who not only was found innocent, but whom many very reasonable people are convinced actually WAS innocent (unlike OJ). Worse, the victim in this case was a criminal himself, suspended from school for theft, positive for drugs, flashed gang signs on facebook, and bragged several times about street fighting on twitter. He is simply a horrible example of an "innocent victim"...even if he were really the victim (which is highly debateable, even if you disagree as evidenced by this 505 page thread.)

Find another case to use to make your points. This one is a dog, and using it for that purpose is counter-productive, DESPITE the media attention, or perhaps, because of it.

Not only that, but he was also a young black male in a predominantly white neighborhood, which was suspicious from day one.

link? pretty sure there are a lot of hispanics and blacks in the neighborhood.

it seems the neighborhood is roughly 50 percent white, 20 plus percent hispanic, 20 plus percent black. Seems like a pretty reasonably integrated community.

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

Tim,

If the judge had allowed Martin's twitter posts in as evidence showing Martin was prone to fighting, it would have given more than enough credence to Zimmerman's claims that even a jury of six mothers would have acquitted him in under an hour. A lot of evidence that SHOULD have been presented was disallowed, and every bit of it made Zimmerman's story more and more credible.

Despite that, the jury still got it right. Despite that, you still argue that Zimmerman must have been guilty, even if by the letter of the law they probably did it right.

Dude.....I don't know how that branch is holding you but it's a good thing you're pretty much alone on it.

You have a lot of respectable opinions on race matters that many people agree with (I don't, but they are common and respectable opinions with legitimate arguments), but this case is an absolute dog. It isn't the right case to base the discussions on because it was so incredibly butchered by the media from day one, with too many emotions, not enough logic, and ultimately, a villain who not only was found innocent, but whom many very reasonable people are convinced actually WAS innocent (unlike OJ). Worse, the victim in this case was a criminal himself, suspended from school for theft, positive for drugs, flashed gang signs on facebook, and bragged several times about street fighting on twitter. He is simply a horrible example of an "innocent victim"...even if he were really the victim (which is highly debateable, even if you disagree as evidenced by this 505 page thread.)

Find another case to use to make your points. This one is a dog, and using it for that purpose is counter-productive, DESPITE the media attention, or perhaps, because of it.

Not only that, but he was also a young black male in a predominantly white neighborhood, which was suspicious from day one.

link? pretty sure there are a lot of hispanics and blacks in the neighborhood.

:sigh

 

[BustedKnuckles]

George Zimmerman just single handedly foiled a terrorist organization's plot to blow up the moon.

 

[T Bell]

Hello all,

I just wanted to check in and see if anyone's mind had been changed about, well, anything given all the arguing that's been going on.

Looking forward to the favor of your replies, I am

Tink

 

[Politician Spock]

To you....for me, killing anyone for any reason is morally wrong, but it's becoming clear to me that my morality is slightly different than some folks here. I'm ok with that.

This can't be an absolute on your part. Just can't be. You wouldn't kill to prevent somone from bludgeoning your children, for example?

Not equating that to Zimmerman-Martin ... just trying to see if your "killing's never moral" stance is absolute.

Pretty sure Commish is 99% shtick.

It's the conclusion I've come to.

Same here.

 

[Politician Spock]

This is getting too funny. It is OK to call someone a lying racist murderer without proof to back it up, but call this process political and you better have a rock solid non-circumstantial case with lots of smoking guns.

It's not funny. It's sad.

 

[Mr Two Cents]

Tim,

If the judge had allowed Martin's twitter posts in as evidence showing Martin was prone to fighting, it would have given more than enough credence to Zimmerman's claims that even a jury of six mothers would have acquitted him in under an hour. A lot of evidence that SHOULD have been presented was disallowed, and every bit of it made Zimmerman's story more and more credible.

Despite that, the jury still got it right. Despite that, you still argue that Zimmerman must have been guilty, even if by the letter of the law they probably did it right.

Dude.....I don't know how that branch is holding you but it's a good thing you're pretty much alone on it.

You have a lot of respectable opinions on race matters that many people agree with (I don't, but they are common and respectable opinions with legitimate arguments), but this case is an absolute dog. It isn't the right case to base the discussions on because it was so incredibly butchered by the media from day one, with too many emotions, not enough logic, and ultimately, a villain who not only was found innocent, but whom many very reasonable people are convinced actually WAS innocent (unlike OJ). Worse, the victim in this case was a criminal himself, suspended from school for theft, positive for drugs, flashed gang signs on facebook, and bragged several times about street fighting on twitter. He is simply a horrible example of an "innocent victim"...even if he were really the victim (which is highly debateable, even if you disagree as evidenced by this 505 page thread.)

Find another case to use to make your points. This one is a dog, and using it for that purpose is counter-productive, DESPITE the media attention, or perhaps, because of it.

Not only that, but he was also a young black male in a predominantly white neighborhood, which was suspicious from day one.

Lets see George Zimmerman is Hispanic and his next door neighbor is black. Exactly how "predominately" white is the neighborhood. Please provide a link.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Tim,

If the judge had allowed Martin's twitter posts in as evidence showing Martin was prone to fighting, it would have given more than enough credence to Zimmerman's claims that even a jury of six mothers would have acquitted him in under an hour. A lot of evidence that SHOULD have been presented was disallowed, and every bit of it made Zimmerman's story more and more credible.

Despite that, the jury still got it right. Despite that, you still argue that Zimmerman must have been guilty, even if by the letter of the law they probably did it right.

Dude.....I don't know how that branch is holding you but it's a good thing you're pretty much alone on it.

You have a lot of respectable opinions on race matters that many people agree with (I don't, but they are common and respectable opinions with legitimate arguments), but this case is an absolute dog. It isn't the right case to base the discussions on because it was so incredibly butchered by the media from day one, with too many emotions, not enough logic, and ultimately, a villain who not only was found innocent, but whom many very reasonable people are convinced actually WAS innocent (unlike OJ). Worse, the victim in this case was a criminal himself, suspended from school for theft, positive for drugs, flashed gang signs on facebook, and bragged several times about street fighting on twitter. He is simply a horrible example of an "innocent victim"...even if he were really the victim (which is highly debateable, even if you disagree as evidenced by this 505 page thread.)

Find another case to use to make your points. This one is a dog, and using it for that purpose is counter-productive, DESPITE the media attention, or perhaps, because of it.

Not only that, but he was also a young black male in a predominantly white neighborhood, which was suspicious from day one.

Lets see George Zimmerman is Hispanic and his next door neighbor is black. Exactly how "predominately" white is the neighborhood. Please provide a link.

 

[Mr Two Cents]

George Zimmerman just single handedly foiled a terrorist organization's plot to blow up the moon.

He has already done more positive things in his life than you have. Between the two of you, I would suggest that you would and should be the one spending 30 years behind bars.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

George Zimmerman just single handedly foiled a terrorist organization's plot to blow up the moon.

He has already done more positive things in his life than you have. Between the two of you, I would suggest that you would and should be the one spending 30 years behind bars.

ive read your posts

 

[Mr Two Cents]

George Zimmerman just single handedly foiled a terrorist organization's plot to blow up the moon.

He has already done more positive things in his life than you have. Between the two of you, I would suggest that you would and should be the one spending 30 years behind bars.

ive read your posts

Then you have enriched your life, congrats.

It feels really good to know that I have raised the IQ of the FFA through you.

 

[Mister CIA]

George Zimmerman just single handedly foiled a terrorist organization's plot to blow up the moon.

He has already done more positive things in his life than you have. Between the two of you, I would suggest that you would and should be the one spending 30 years behind bars.

ive read your posts

Then you have enriched your life, congrats.It feels really good to know that I have raised the IQ of the FFA through you.

I agree, except for your incorrect interpretation of the letter 'I'.

 

[-fish-]

So...in 505 pages, has anyone got another person to agree on their side of things?

I got lots of people to agree that Tim should stop posting.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

WaPo poll

Dunning–Kruger effect on full display

 

[tdoss]

WaPo poll

Dunning–Kruger effect on full display

That's just unreasonable...

Whites are looking at it objectively...with a decent balance between approve, disapprove and no opinion all across the board.

Blacks are voting obviously with an emotional angle all across the board...unless they're somehow privy to facts in this case that have somehow alluded the white population on the whole.

Lastly, I'd think that since racism is so rampant among whites and their white bread society...I'd think that this poll would reflect that...but I'm not seeing it. Quite the opposite, in fact.

 

[jon_mx]

I am pretty sure Holder will file charges against Zimmerman, despite there not being any chance of getting a conviction, purely out of spite. It is a gross abuse of power of unfairly targeting an individual, but Tim will cheer the Nazi's on.

 

[Doug B]

I am pretty sure Holder will file charges against Zimmerman, despite there not being any chance of getting a conviction, purely out of spite.

I come down on the other side -- I think Holder and the DOJ are putting on what they feel is a politically necessary song-&-dance act. Holder's public words leave too many outs. The "investigation" may go on for some time, and the announcement not to file federal charges may wait until the heat's lessened ... but I think Zimmerman's truly in the clear from federal charges.

Going back a few years ... I don't think John Ashcroft or Alberto Gonzales would've touched this case with a ten-foot pole.

 

[Doug B]

Do people really expect us to overlook the reality that a kid is dead?

It's simply not that pat, though. A lot of people beliwve that since (a) someone died (b) by gunshot that something -- anything -- must be done, somehow someway. They feel things "just shouldn't work out that way."

However, this case is necessarily complex and cannot honestly be distilled down to "gun fired, kid dies". The extenuating circumstances are legion and exculpatory (assuming some level of acceptance of Zimmerman's account + some other evidence introduced at trial).

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

I'm sorry if somebody has already posted this but I found this link to be interesting... Media is such a crock

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ebu6Yvzs4Ls

 

[The Commish]

Do people really expect us to overlook the reality that a kid is dead?

It's simply not that pat, though. A lot of people beliwve that since (a) someone died (b) by gunshot that something -- anything -- must be done, somehow someway. They feel things "just shouldn't work out that way."

However, this case is necessarily complex and cannot honestly be distilled down to "gun fired, kid dies". The extenuating circumstances are legion and exculpatory (assuming some level of acceptance of Zimmerman's account + some other evidence introduced at trial).

I understand that it's not cut and dry, but folks want to sweep this factor under the rug. From a legal perspective, that can be done. Society isn't going to allow that to happen. There's case after case where people go to trial, are found not guilty and society still punishes them. That's generally because society understands the difference between innocent and not guilty and if it's not clearly innocent, society wants it's form of justice. What's happening to this guy has happened to plenty. Some don't like that for whatever reason and are up in arms with everyone/everything because of it.

Three days into the prosecution's case it was clear that he wasn't going to be punished by the criminal justice system. He was going to be punished by society. Now everyone's "outraged" at that. Throw on top of all this the political and you have 506 pages.

 

[cstu]

I am pretty sure Holder will file charges against Zimmerman, despite there not being any chance of getting a conviction, purely out of spite.

I come down on the other side -- I think Holder and the DOJ are putting on what they feel is a politically necessary song-&-dance act. Holder's public words leave too many outs. The "investigation" may go on for some time, and the announcement not to file federal charges may wait until the heat's lessened ... but I think Zimmerman's truly in the clear from federal charges.

Going back a few years ... I don't think John Ashcroft or Alberto Gonzales would've touched this case with a ten-foot pole.

 

[Rayderr]

Do people really expect us to overlook the reality that a kid is dead?

It's simply not that pat, though. A lot of people beliwve that since (a) someone died (b) by gunshot that something -- anything -- must be done, somehow someway. They feel things "just shouldn't work out that way."

However, this case is necessarily complex and cannot honestly be distilled down to "gun fired, kid dies". The extenuating circumstances are legion and exculpatory (assuming some level of acceptance of Zimmerman's account + some other evidence introduced at trial).

I understand that it's not cut and dry, but folks want to sweep this factor under the rug. From a legal perspective, that can be done. Society isn't going to allow that to happen. There's case after case where people go to trial, are found not guilty and society still punishes them. That's generally because society understands the difference between innocent and not guilty and if it's not clearly innocent, society wants it's form of justice. What's happening to this guy has happened to plenty. Some don't like that for whatever reason and are up in arms with everyone/everything because of it.

Three days into the prosecution's case it was clear that he wasn't going to be punished by the criminal justice system. He was going to be punished by society. Now everyone's "outraged" at that. Throw on top of all this the political and you have 506 pages.

It is outrage worthy. The reality is, the whole reason "society" wants to punish ZImmerman is because of the news media. This story was not worthy of being national. The news media manipulated people's emotions, by showing pictures of Trayvon at 10 years old instead of much more recent photos, constantly saying a White man shot an African-American boy. They doctored audio tapes to make Zimmerman seem guilty and racist. The media went out of their way to find circumstantial evidence (at best) that protrayed ZImmerman poorly (He applied to be a police officer. Clearly he's just a cop wannabe that took the law into his own hands) while they ignored evidence to the contrary, and evidence about Trayvon that would've supported Zimmerman's story. Then you have Obama saying Trayvon could've been his son (OMG! ZImmerman killed Obama's son!) and then Obama saying he was Trayvon Martin (OMG! ZImmerman killed the next Obama!) and of course you have the news media repeating those clips ad nauseam.

If the news media had any integrity at all during this whole ordeal, then there would not be all the outrage from those demanding justicevengeance and from those that think Zimmerman is being unfairly targeted.

 

[Doug B]

Society isn't going to allow that to happen. There's case after case where people go to trial, are found not guilty and society still punishes them. That's generally because society understands the difference between innocent and not guilty and if it's not clearly innocent, society wants it's form of justice. What's happening to [Zimmerman] has happened to plenty.

I don't think the bolded it true at all.

That said, I don't think the "society" you refer to is monolithic. Contrary to what some may believe, there are actually many places in the U.S. where George Zimmerman could live openly (though admittedly only the passage of time will improve his employment opportunities).

I've seen SaintsinDome, ATC, and some other Saints/LSU fans in this thread with presumably some knowledge of the New Orleans metro area and surrounding parishes. There are lots of places within an hour's drive of N.O. where Zimmerman could live freely. I'd think he could even make a go of it in the city of New Orleans itself provided he chose his location carefully.

 

[The Commish]

Do people really expect us to overlook the reality that a kid is dead?

It's simply not that pat, though. A lot of people beliwve that since (a) someone died (b) by gunshot that something -- anything -- must be done, somehow someway. They feel things "just shouldn't work out that way."

However, this case is necessarily complex and cannot honestly be distilled down to "gun fired, kid dies". The extenuating circumstances are legion and exculpatory (assuming some level of acceptance of Zimmerman's account + some other evidence introduced at trial).

I understand that it's not cut and dry, but folks want to sweep this factor under the rug. From a legal perspective, that can be done. Society isn't going to allow that to happen. There's case after case where people go to trial, are found not guilty and society still punishes them. That's generally because society understands the difference between innocent and not guilty and if it's not clearly innocent, society wants it's form of justice. What's happening to this guy has happened to plenty. Some don't like that for whatever reason and are up in arms with everyone/everything because of it.

Three days into the prosecution's case it was clear that he wasn't going to be punished by the criminal justice system. He was going to be punished by society. Now everyone's "outraged" at that. Throw on top of all this the political and you have 506 pages.

It is outrage worthy. The reality is, the whole reason "society" wants to punish ZImmerman is because of the news media. This story was not worthy of being national. The news media manipulated people's emotions, by showing pictures of Trayvon at 10 years old instead of much more recent photos, constantly saying a White man shot an African-American boy. They doctored audio tapes to make Zimmerman seem guilty and racist. The media went out of their way to find circumstantial evidence (at best) that protrayed ZImmerman poorly (He applied to be a police officer. Clearly he's just a cop wannabe that took the law into his own hands) while they ignored evidence to the contrary, and evidence about Trayvon that would've supported Zimmerman's story. Then you have Obama saying Trayvon could've been his son (OMG! ZImmerman killed Obama's son!) and then Obama saying he was Trayvon Martin (OMG! ZImmerman killed the next Obama!) and of course you have the news media repeating those clips ad nauseam.

If the news media had any integrity at all during this whole ordeal, then there would not be all the outrage from those demanding justicevengeance and from those that think Zimmerman is being unfairly targeted.

Disagree....there's a substantial segment of our society that wants to punish him because he shot a kid. Yes, the news media is part of this, but they started sucking at the ratings teet when they saw the initial reaction from folks upset that an unarmed kid was shot by an adult and not be brought up on a single charge. They certainly added fuel to the fire. To a lot of folks the circumstances are irrelevant. A lot of folks want to society to play by the rules of our judicial system, but the reality is our judicial system works within the confines of our society, not the other way around.

I don't really have a problem with the initial outrage to this. What I find more troubling is the continued outrage (on both sides) well after the case is over. I'm not a big fan of the "social justice" that exists in our society but I accept that it is there and understand it will always be there.

 

[The Commish]

Society isn't going to allow that to happen. There's case after case where people go to trial, are found not guilty and society still punishes them. That's generally because society understands the difference between innocent and not guilty and if it's not clearly innocent, society wants it's form of justice. What's happening to [Zimmerman] has happened to plenty.

I don't think the bolded it true at all.

That said, I don't think the "society" you refer to is monolithic. Contrary to what some may believe, there are actually many places in the U.S. where George Zimmerman could live openly (though admittedly only the passage of time will improve his employment opportunities).

I've seen SaintsinDome, ATC, and some other Saints/LSU fans in this thread with presumably some knowledge of the New Orleans metro area and surrounding parishes. There are lots of places within an hour's drive of N.O. where Zimmerman could live freely. I'd think he could even make a go of it in the city of New Orleans itself provided he chose his location carefully.

Really? The first two that pop into mind that everyone knows are OJ and Casey Anthony. I can rattle off others locally that wouldn't mean anything to you. I have a dear friend of mine that was accused of sexual assault in college and acquitted (as he should have been) that had to leave the state to start his life over again because of societal influence. It happens frequently.

 

[Rayderr]

Do people really expect us to overlook the reality that a kid is dead?

It's simply not that pat, though. A lot of people beliwve that since (a) someone died (b) by gunshot that something -- anything -- must be done, somehow someway. They feel things "just shouldn't work out that way."

However, this case is necessarily complex and cannot honestly be distilled down to "gun fired, kid dies". The extenuating circumstances are legion and exculpatory (assuming some level of acceptance of Zimmerman's account + some other evidence introduced at trial).

I understand that it's not cut and dry, but folks want to sweep this factor under the rug. From a legal perspective, that can be done. Society isn't going to allow that to happen. There's case after case where people go to trial, are found not guilty and society still punishes them. That's generally because society understands the difference between innocent and not guilty and if it's not clearly innocent, society wants it's form of justice. What's happening to this guy has happened to plenty. Some don't like that for whatever reason and are up in arms with everyone/everything because of it.

Three days into the prosecution's case it was clear that he wasn't going to be punished by the criminal justice system. He was going to be punished by society. Now everyone's "outraged" at that. Throw on top of all this the political and you have 506 pages.

It is outrage worthy. The reality is, the whole reason "society" wants to punish ZImmerman is because of the news media. This story was not worthy of being national. The news media manipulated people's emotions, by showing pictures of Trayvon at 10 years old instead of much more recent photos, constantly saying a White man shot an African-American boy. They doctored audio tapes to make Zimmerman seem guilty and racist. The media went out of their way to find circumstantial evidence (at best) that protrayed ZImmerman poorly (He applied to be a police officer. Clearly he's just a cop wannabe that took the law into his own hands) while they ignored evidence to the contrary, and evidence about Trayvon that would've supported Zimmerman's story. Then you have Obama saying Trayvon could've been his son (OMG! ZImmerman killed Obama's son!) and then Obama saying he was Trayvon Martin (OMG! ZImmerman killed the next Obama!) and of course you have the news media repeating those clips ad nauseam.

If the news media had any integrity at all during this whole ordeal, then there would not be all the outrage from those demanding justicevengeance and from those that think Zimmerman is being unfairly targeted.

Disagree....there's a substantial segment of our society that wants to punish him because he shot a kid. Yes, the news media is part of this, but they started sucking at the ratings teet when they saw the initial reaction from folks upset that an unarmed kid was shot by an adult and not be brought up on a single charge. They certainly added fuel to the fire. To a lot of folks the circumstances are irrelevant. A lot of folks want to society to play by the rules of our judicial system, but the reality is our judicial system works within the confines of our society, not the other way around.

I don't really have a problem with the initial outrage to this. What I find more troubling is the continued outrage (on both sides) well after the case is over. I'm not a big fan of the "social justice" that exists in our society but I accept that it is there and understand it will always be there.

Do you think this story would've gotten anywhere near the attention had it been reported as "Hispanic claims self defense in shooting of african american teenager with behavior problems; police investigation ongoing."? Remember, back when this story made national, the police were still investigating to determine if Zimmerman should be charged.

 

[Rayderr]

Society isn't going to allow that to happen. There's case after case where people go to trial, are found not guilty and society still punishes them. That's generally because society understands the difference between innocent and not guilty and if it's not clearly innocent, society wants it's form of justice. What's happening to [Zimmerman] has happened to plenty.

I don't think the bolded it true at all.

That said, I don't think the "society" you refer to is monolithic. Contrary to what some may believe, there are actually many places in the U.S. where George Zimmerman could live openly (though admittedly only the passage of time will improve his employment opportunities).

I've seen SaintsinDome, ATC, and some other Saints/LSU fans in this thread with presumably some knowledge of the New Orleans metro area and surrounding parishes. There are lots of places within an hour's drive of N.O. where Zimmerman could live freely. I'd think he could even make a go of it in the city of New Orleans itself provided he chose his location carefully.

Really? The first two that pop into mind that everyone knows are OJ and Casey Anthony. I can rattle off others locally that wouldn't mean anything to you. I have a dear friend of mine that was accused of sexual assault in college and acquitted (as he should have been) that had to leave the state to start his life over again because of societal influence. It happens frequently.

Yes, and if this had been a local story, most of us wouldn't care. But people and the press decided to make this story national and about something it was not.

 

[Doug B]

Really? The first two that pop into mind that everyone knows are OJ and Casey Anthony. I can rattle off others locally that wouldn't mean anything to you. I have a dear friend of mine that was accused of sexual assault in college and acquitted (as he should have been) that had to leave the state to start his life over again because of societal influence. It happens frequently.

Yeah, but I wasn't counting the local ones that could move a state away and regain anonimity I thought the thing you meant that "happened to plenty" was "societally punished by becoming persona non grata in all of the land area of the U.S.". So there was a measure of scale that I thought was implicit in your comment.

 

[Witz]

Do people really expect us to overlook the reality that a kid is dead?

It's simply not that pat, though. A lot of people beliwve that since (a) someone died (b) by gunshot that something -- anything -- must be done, somehow someway. They feel things "just shouldn't work out that way."

However, this case is necessarily complex and cannot honestly be distilled down to "gun fired, kid dies". The extenuating circumstances are legion and exculpatory (assuming some level of acceptance of Zimmerman's account + some other evidence introduced at trial).

I understand that it's not cut and dry, but folks want to sweep this factor under the rug. From a legal perspective, that can be done. Society isn't going to allow that to happen. There's case after case where people go to trial, are found not guilty and society still punishes them. That's generally because society understands the difference between innocent and not guilty and if it's not clearly innocent, society wants it's form of justice. What's happening to this guy has happened to plenty. Some don't like that for whatever reason and are up in arms with everyone/everything because of it.

Three days into the prosecution's case it was clear that he wasn't going to be punished by the criminal justice system. He was going to be punished by society. Now everyone's "outraged" at that. Throw on top of all this the political and you have 506 pages.

It is outrage worthy. The reality is, the whole reason "society" wants to punish ZImmerman is because of the news media. This story was not worthy of being national. The news media manipulated people's emotions, by showing pictures of Trayvon at 10 years old instead of much more recent photos, constantly saying a White man shot an African-American boy. They doctored audio tapes to make Zimmerman seem guilty and racist. The media went out of their way to find circumstantial evidence (at best) that protrayed ZImmerman poorly (He applied to be a police officer. Clearly he's just a cop wannabe that took the law into his own hands) while they ignored evidence to the contrary, and evidence about Trayvon that would've supported Zimmerman's story. Then you have Obama saying Trayvon could've been his son (OMG! ZImmerman killed Obama's son!) and then Obama saying he was Trayvon Martin (OMG! ZImmerman killed the next Obama!) and of course you have the news media repeating those clips ad nauseam.

If the news media had any integrity at all during this whole ordeal, then there would not be all the outrage from those demanding justicevengeance and from those that think Zimmerman is being unfairly targeted.

Disagree....there's a substantial segment of our society that wants to punish him because he shot a kid. Yes, the news media is part of this, but they started sucking at the ratings teet when they saw the initial reaction from folks upset that an unarmed kid was shot by an adult and not be brought up on a single charge. They certainly added fuel to the fire. To a lot of folks the circumstances are irrelevant. A lot of folks want to society to play by the rules of our judicial system, but the reality is our judicial system works within the confines of our society, not the other way around.

I don't really have a problem with the initial outrage to this. What I find more troubling is the continued outrage (on both sides) well after the case is over. I'm not a big fan of the "social justice" that exists in our society but I accept that it is there and understand it will always be there.

Disagree with this. All you have to do is look at the news to see folks shooting people all the time. Adults shooting kids, kids shooting kids. None of them are getting the 'press' that this particular story did.

Tell me if you are familar with any of these folks without googling them:

John Spooner and Darius Simmons

Donald Wilder and Caleb Gordley

Michael Bishop and Jacob Eberle

Demarquis Elkins and Antonio West

Maybe one of this grouping but definitely not all four. My point, as sad and tragic as it is, is that kids are getting shot everyday in this country. While folks may also be upset about the age of the individual that was killed, it's unfortunately turned into an us vs them mentality which continues to further propel this story.

 

[Politician Spock]

Society isn't going to allow that to happen. There's case after case where people go to trial, are found not guilty and society still punishes them. That's generally because society understands the difference between innocent and not guilty and if it's not clearly innocent, society wants it's form of justice. What's happening to [Zimmerman] has happened to plenty.

I don't think the bolded it true at all.

That said, I don't think the "society" you refer to is monolithic. Contrary to what some may believe, there are actually many places in the U.S. where George Zimmerman could live openly (though admittedly only the passage of time will improve his employment opportunities).

I've seen SaintsinDome, ATC, and some other Saints/LSU fans in this thread with presumably some knowledge of the New Orleans metro area and surrounding parishes. There are lots of places within an hour's drive of N.O. where Zimmerman could live freely. I'd think he could even make a go of it in the city of New Orleans itself provided he chose his location carefully.

Really? The first two that pop into mind that everyone knows are OJ and Casey Anthony. I can rattle off others locally that wouldn't mean anything to you. I have a dear friend of mine that was accused of sexual assault in college and acquitted (as he should have been) that had to leave the state to start his life over again because of societal influence. It happens frequently.

at comparing Zimmerman to a famous football star and a woman who was turned in by her own mother for killing her daughter.

What Casey did is rare, as well as sick and twisted. That's what made it dramatic enough to be national news. And OJ's case was dramatic enough to be national news because he was a celebrity. What happened between Martin/Zimmerman isn't rare, and neither of them were celebrities. There's was no reason for it to be national news. A lot of flame fanning had to occur to get the nation heated over it.

 

[TobiasFunke]

at comparing Zimmerman to a famous football star and a woman who was turned in by her own mother for killing her daughter.

What Casey did is rare, as well as sick and twisted. That's what made it dramatic enough to be national news. And OJ's case was dramatic enough to be national news because he was a celebrity. What happened between Martin/Zimmerman isn't rare, and neither of them were celebrities. There's was no reason for it to be national news. A lot of flame fanning had to occur to get the nation heated over it.

I may be wrong about this, but I think people killing unarmed total strangers and then claiming self defense is kinda rare, regardless of the race of either party. Not saying it wasn't self defense, but this was not an everyday occurrence. It wouldn't have received national media attention were it not for the race of the parties, and the way the killer described the victim and his motivation for following him (which played into the racial angle), but let's not act like this sort of thing happens every day.

 

[Politician Spock]

at comparing Zimmerman to a famous football star and a woman who was turned in by her own mother for killing her daughter.

What Casey did is rare, as well as sick and twisted. That's what made it dramatic enough to be national news. And OJ's case was dramatic enough to be national news because he was a celebrity. What happened between Martin/Zimmerman isn't rare, and neither of them were celebrities. There's was no reason for it to be national news. A lot of flame fanning had to occur to get the nation heated over it.

I may be wrong about this, but I think people killing unarmed total strangers and then claiming self defense is kinda rare, regardless of the race of either party. Not saying it wasn't self defense, but this was not an everyday occurrence. It wouldn't have received national media attention were it not for the race of the parties, and the way the killer described the victim and his motivation for following him (which played into the racial angle), but let's not act like this sort of thing happens every day.

There are an average of 438 incidents per year of whites killing blacks in this county. There are an average of 853 incidents per year of blacks killing whites in this country. It's rare however for journalists to be fired for how they report incidents.