Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (1 Viewer)

[Carolina Hustler]

Show me your proof that Zimmerman acted aggressively or struck Trayvon any time leading up to the shooting..

He stalked him with a gun.

So by your reasoning, the fact that Zimmerman followed Trayvon, and was licensed and carrying a firearm, proves that he participated in a fist fight.. Bit of a leap if you ask me..What Zimmerman did is not legally described as Stalking.. And he was legally within his rights to carry a firearm..

Yes, it was acting aggressively.That was the question. And that certainly was the situation.

The question was asked in the context of the discussion which was about a fist fight which you continue to obfuscate and twist..Just answer the question.. What proof do you have that Zimmerman willingly participated in this "Fist Fight" that you guys claim to have happened..

What proof do you have that Zimmerman didn't?

I don't have any proof, but I don't need any, I'm not saying he didn't. You on the otherhand are saying he did..

No, I didn't.

Now looking back, it wasn't you.. Was The Texan, and BustedKnuckle...So then I guess we agree, we don't know that Zimmerman participated in a fist fight.. Right?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Martin was a thug, he attacked Zimmerman, they both went after Zimmerman's gun after Martin started beating him up and Martin lost...We went over this yesterday, all supported by witnesses, that's why no charges were files, that's why the "stand your ground" defense will not be used and Zimmerman if charged will be acquitted because he was attacked and defended himself...All he is guilty of is being stupid, maybe...

Not all of that was supported by witness'.. Actually, some of the most crucial parts were only witnessed by Zimmerman and Trayvon

 

[Otis]

Come on hundo!

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Martin was a thug, he attacked Zimmerman, they both went after Zimmerman's gun after Martin started beating him up and Martin lost...

We went over this yesterday, all supported by witnesses, that's why no charges were files, that's why the "stand your ground" defense will not be used and Zimmerman if charged will be acquitted because he was attacked and defended himself...

All he is guilty of is being stupid, maybe...

No it's not.

The attack on Zimmerman was most definitely supported by witnesses, the thug part was my addition, wait to see how this all unfolds, bet I am a lot closer than you ...Explains the injuries the first 911 call and no evidence to charge Zimmerman...

Which on site witnesses are you looking at???

The girlfriend is absolutely unreliable and Martin has his reputation and Zimmerman has his from many, many previous instances...

Almost all of what you wrote is pure speculation. One witness said he saw them fighting. That's it. You think Martin was a thug because he was young and black and you're old and white and prejudiced.

Actually 2 witness' saw them fighting.. And all witness' that saw the fight, saw Trayvon on top.. But that still doesn't support all of BoneYardDog's post..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

A fist fight implies that there were 2 willing participants.

I didn't want to get into a racial argument, and had been looking at several ridiculous posts preceding yours. The current race based discussion got more interesting when an African American spoke up. I was sucked in I guess.. .

No it doesn't.

Children who are beat by their parents are not involved in fist fights. There is an obvious difference between a fist fight and a beating.

Non-sequiter much? A lot of fist fights turn into a beating. Depends on who's winning.

That doesn't mean this was a fist fight. We don't know that Zimmerman struck him at all proceding the gun shot

well the fact that trey`s GF reported that someone pushed someone and the phone went dead says that it could have been zimmerman who initiated the contact...or trey

Could have been either of them or none of them, she made an assuption there. Doesn't prove that Zimmerman participated in a fist fight.

i never said it did

You definitely insinuated that he did... More than once...

 

[metoo]

This is my first comment in this thread but I have a hard time believing Zimmerman suffered those injuries and was still taking into custody. I also have a hard time believing Martin said what was quoted by Zimmerman's father.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Martin was a thug, he attacked Zimmerman, they both went after Zimmerman's gun after Martin started beating him up and Martin lost...

We went over this yesterday, all supported by witnesses, that's why no charges were files, that's why the "stand your ground" defense will not be used and Zimmerman if charged will be acquitted because he was attacked and defended himself...

All he is guilty of is being stupid, maybe...

No it's not.

The attack on Zimmerman was most definitely supported by witnesses, the thug part was my addition, wait to see how this all unfolds, bet I am a lot closer than you ...Explains the injuries the first 911 call and no evidence to charge Zimmerman...

Which on site witnesses are you looking at???

The girlfriend is absolutely unreliable and Martin has his reputation and Zimmerman has his from many, many previous instances...

Almost all of what you wrote is pure speculation. One witness said he saw them fighting. That's it. You think Martin was a thug because he was young and black and you're old and white and prejudiced.

Don't forget to look at his school history and his facebook postings...Besides we determined your status yesterday...

Yeah, teenagers never put stupid stuff on facebook or goof off at school. And I think we determined your status a long time ago.

Suspended from school 3 times, drug paraphernalia at school... Yea.. Everybody does that Trayvon's school record does not equate to "Goofing off at school"... And no, not everybody does that. Kid was definitely headed down the wrong road..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Gonna need to see pics of Olivia before I weigh in.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Walked into a meeting here at work wearing a hoodie and eating some Skittles and everyone hit the deck !!!!

:golfclap:

 

[Carolina Hustler]

TEL = non-911 police number (answered by 911 dispatcher)

BM = black male

LSW = last seen wearing

46. Feb. 26, 2012 – 7:20 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Suspicious activity

Report: Repeats prior report

45. Feb. 26, 2012 (night of Martin shooting) – 7:11 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Suspicious activity

Report: Black male “late teens lsw dark gray hoodie jeans or sweatpants walking around area” … “subj now running towards back entrance of complex”

44. Feb. 2, 2012 – 8:29 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Suspicious activity

Report: “BM lsw: black leather jacket, black hat, printed PJ pants, he keeps going going to this” location

43. Jan. 29, 2012 – 5:38 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Disturbance

Report: Children “running and playing in the street”

42. Dec. 10, 2011 – 5:29 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Disturbance

Report: “At the club house” … “Male subject [arrived on scene] that thought he was employed by” Zimmerman … “Subj is expected to get paid for serving food.” … Zimmerman “said that he didn’t wish him to serve at the [event]” … Zimmerman “hired someone else, subj sounded upset and wants to get paid”

41. Oct. 1, 2011 – 12:53 a.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Suspicious activity

Report: Two black male suspects “20–30 YOA in [white] Chevy poss Impala at the gate of the community.” Zimmerman “does not recognize subjs or veh and is concerned due to recent” burglaries in the area

40. Sept. 23, 2011 – 11:08 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Neighbor/Suspicious activity

Report: Zimmerman reports “open garage door” … Describes “neighborhood watch mtg last night with Sgt Herx who [advised] to report anything [suspicious]” … Zimmerman “is part of neighborhood watch” and is concerned because of recent burglaries in the area

39. Aug. 6, 2011 – 10:20 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Suspicious activity

Report: Two black males, one wearing a black tank top and black shorts, the second wearing a black t-shirt and jeans … “Subjs are in their teens”

38. Aug. 3, 2011 – 6:45 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Suspicious activity

Report: Black male last seen wearing a white tank top and black shorts … Zimmerman “believes subject is involved in recent” burglaries in the neighborhood

37. May 27, 2011 – 9:18 a.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Alarm

Report: Zimmerman “has a self responding alarm that just notified him of” an alarm at this location

36. April 22, 2011 – 7:09 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Suspicious activity

Report: Juvenile black male “apprx 7–9” years old, four feet tall “skinny build short blk hair” last seen wearing a blue t-shirt and blue shorts

35. March 18, 2011 – 9:26 p.m.

Type: 911

Subject: Animals

Report: Zimmerman requested an officer meet him regarding a pit bull in his garage

34. Nov. 26, 2010 – 2:54 a.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Alarm

Report: Zimmerman was out of town and a motion alarm he monitors himself went off

33. Nov. 8, 2010 – 6:54 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Maintenance

Report: Zimmerman reports “trash in roadwy”

32. Oct. 2, 2010 – 1:55 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Disturbance

Report: Zimmerman reports “blu jeep grand Cherokee female driver yelling at elderly passengers … windows are tinted” … “the veh was rocking back and forth and he could hear the female yelling”

31. June 26, 2010 – 11:00 p.m.

Type: 911

Subject: Disturbance

Report: “Loud party … approx 50 subjs & blocking the street”

30. June 12, 2010 – 11:13 p.m.

Type: 911

Subject: Disturbance

Report: Subject “at the clubhouse & pool areas having a party”

29. April 28, 2010 – 9:02 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Disturbance

Report: “White older model four-door Buick or Oldsmobile” obstructing road

28. Feb. 27, 2010 – 4:46 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Suspicious activity

Report: “Residence w/a lot of [suspicious] activity” … “multiple vehs are constantly coming to the” location … “unk subs run out to the vehs and run back inside” … “the subjs are always outside w/the garage open” … “the subjs hang out towards the st all night//ongoing problem”

27. Jan. 12, 2010 – 10:25 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Neighbor

Report: Open garage door … Zimmerman says “this is very unlike his neighbor” … “there is a lot of electronics in the resd and posb in the garage”

26. Jan. 1, 2010 – 4:34 a.m.

Type: 911

Subject: Disturbance

Report: Zimmerman reports reckless driver in “purplish Ford Ranger single cab”

25. Nov. 3, 2009 – 5:04 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Disturbance

Report: White Ford F350 that was “cutting people off”

24. Nov. 21, 2009 – 2:26 p.m.

Type: 911

Subject: Unclear

23. Oct. 23, 2009 – 9:18 a.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Animals

Report: “Aggressive white and brown pitbull” sitting outside Zimmerman’s home

22. Sept. 22, 2009 – 6:00 p.m.

Type: 911

Subject: Disturbance

Report: “Yellow speed bike … was speeding and weaving in and out of traffic and doing wheelies”

21. Sept. 7, 2009 – 9:01 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Maintenance

Report: “Pot hole in the road” … “it is deep and can cause damage to vehicles”

20. Aug. 26, 2009  - 8:35 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Suspicious activity

Report: “Gold Caprice … male driving with no headlights … speeding”

19. Aug. 21, 2009 – 6:57 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Conflict

Report: “Landlord is trying to take [Zimmerman’s] money for rent … and home in foreclosure”

18. June 16, 2009 – 3:50 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Disturbance

Report: Persons in the pool area playing basketball, “jumpin over the fence going into pool area and trashin the bathroom”

17. June 10, 2009 – 1:55 a.m.

Type: 911

Subject: Alarm

Report: Fire alarm going off

16. May 4, 2009 – 4:07 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Suspicious activity

Report: Reports a blue Audi A4

15. March 12, 2009 – 6:58 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Patrol

Report: Patrol request between March 13 and March 22

14. Jan. 5, 2009 – 10:53 p.m.

Type: 911

Subject: Alarm

Report: Fire alarm going off

13. Nov. 25, 2007 – 12:40 a.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Disturbance

Report: “Ex roommate is letting people that [Zimmerman] don’t like in the” house

12. Nov. 25, 2007 – 12:21 a.m.

Type: 911

Subject: Disturbance

Report: White male ex-roommate last seen wearing a red Florida State University shirt

11. Oct. 14, 2007 – 4:10 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Suspicious activity

Report: Possible criminal mischief to the tire of Zimmerman’s black Dodge Durango

10. June 24, 2007 – 12:48 a.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Suspicious activity

Report: “By the pool”, two Hispanic males and one white male with “slim jim”

9. Nov. 4, 2006 – 2:37 a.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Suspicious activity

Report: A call regarding a “late model red” Toyota pickup “driving around the neighborhood and apt complex for the past 5 min”

8. Sept. 23, 2005 – 7:03 p.m.

Type: 911

Subject: Suspicious activity

Report: Zimmerman’s “little sister just call him from above” his address and advises “there was a” suspicious person “at the front door”

7. Sept. 21, 2005 – 9:00 p.m.

Type: 911

Subject: Animals

Report: Reports a stray dog

6. April 27, 2005 – 12:40 a.m.

Type: 911

Subject: Neighbor

Report: Open garage door

5. March 17, 2005 – 7:21 p.m.

Type: 911

Subject: Maintenance

Report: Pothole “that is blocking the road”

4. Oct. 20, 2004 – 9:13 p.m.

Type: 911

Subject: Disturbance

Report: Drunk pedestrian walking in the road

3. Aug. 20, 2004 – 11:33 p.m.

Type: 911

Subject: Neighbor

Report: Reports an open garage door

2. Aug.12, 2004 – 10:03 a.m.

Type: 911

Subject: Suspicious activity

Report: Repeats earlier report

1. Aug. 12, 2004 – 9:59 a.m.

Type: 911

Subject: Suspicious activity

Report: Places a call reporting a male in a green Ford pickup

Wait, these are real? WTF.

I expect the neighborhood watch captain to have more calls in to 911 or the police then the average person.. It's kinda his job.. "When in doubt call 911" and/or "better be safe then sorry" This is the moto of most if not all neighborhood watch grougs and police departments across the country.. A simple google search can show you this...

Also, calling the city to clear debris out of the road is a smart thing, or would you rather just ride over it?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

More dedicated, Zimmerman to calling the police or Carolina to posting in this thread?

Can I answer this one?

 

[mad sweeney]

What i find funny is ive been saying since my first post, that zimmerman murdered treyvon martin and he didnt have to. Now that ive seen the arrest video im more convinced than ever that zimmerman has lied at every turn to save his ### from going to prison. If he WAS covered in blood and had a broken nose and the back of his head was as injured as he claimed, i would have said i was wrong . I would have said Treyvon was beating him and he shot trey in self defense. I still would say he inadvertanly caused it by following trey , but he shot trey in self defense. Why cant the defenders of zimmerman watch that video and say maybe zimmerman was lying and is full of crap. Its right there in color. Is it pride?

Maybe Zimmerman is lying and is full of crap. Happy now?Also, remember Zimmerman's story had to check out or they had probable cause. If your take is the conspiracy theory cover up by corrupt cops fine. If your take is totally inept cops, fine. I doubt either of those are the case, so regardless of how unscathed he looked after being cleaned up in the back of the squad car, I still think the story he delivered had to have enough support to keep him from being arrested.

Couldn't have anything to do with his dad being a judge, just like his previous arrests that resulted in no charges.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

After my thorough legal review of this case (my lunch break). I am charging Zimmerman with culpable negligence (negligent homicide).

Culpable Negligence: Failure to exercise that degree of care rendered appropriate by the particular circumstances, and which a man of ordinary prudence in the same situation and with equal experience would not have omitted.

Homicide: The killing of one human being by the act, procurement, or omission of another. A person is quilty of criminal homicide if he purposley, knowingly, recklessly, or neglegently causes the death of another human being.Criminal homicide is murder, manslaughter or negligent homicide.

I understand he is supposedly protected by the "stand your ground rule". But IMLO, when he left his vehicle and pursued Martin he set into motion the events that led to Martins death, and in fact acted with negligence. If not for his negligence the death of Martin would not have happened.

I rest my case.

Disclaimer: I am a Lunch Time Attorney Only.

What state is this law from?

Here are Florida's applicable statutes.http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/Chapter782

782.07 Manslaughter; aggravated manslaughter of an elderly person or disabled adult; aggravated manslaughter of a child; aggravated manslaughter of an officer, a firefighter, an emergency medical technician, or a paramedic.—(1) The killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification according to the provisions of chapter 776 and in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder, according to the provisions of this chapter, is manslaughter, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

I still make the arrest based on the reasons I stated earlier and let it be tried in court.

It still hasn't been established that Zimmerman was the aggressor.

Exactly

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I haven't seen the Zimmerman lawyer but I don't like the Martin lawyer at all.

They can't all be Christo....

 

[mad sweeney]

What if he punches someone once and then slammed that person's head into the ground. Will an autopsy show that? I don't see how it could.

that theory is not consistent with Zimmerman's injuries.

That's not a theory. That's Zimmerman's defense claim. It proved supportable enough to keep him from being arrested.

There are a lot of reason why Zimmerman wasn't arrested. His lack of injuries to back up his defense claim is one of the many reasons he will be convicted.

Do you know reasons why he wasn't arrested? I haven't heard anything specific.

The DA didnt think there was enough evidence for a case.

He didn't think there was enough evidence when the son of a Police lieutenant beat the crap out of homeless black man, either. Until video of it came out and he had to charge him.

Well video of this altercation would probably change things in this case too. I don't see that the same way you do. Everything isn't conspiracy and corruption, really.

People lie all the time. Especially when it's in their best interests to do so. I think Zimmerman lied, the lead investigator thought he was lying, told the DA, and the DA didn't take action on it.

Simey explained the process from her personal work experience. The investigators often bring affidavits calling for charges to the DA who makes the decisions. So this guys opinion, ewas overruled by those who have to prosecute the case. Nothing unusual or incriminating about how this process worked.

Except that it seems to happen to this particular judge's son quite often.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

The 13 year old witness, whom BoneYardDog and others have claimed supports Zimmerman's story, has told his mother very clearly that the cries for help were from Trayvon Martin, not Zimmerman. He also says that there was no struggle that he saw. He does not believe that this was a case of self defense. I wonder if he's lying....or if the mother's lying....

Link? I've not seen this

 

[jomar]

forget who it was on TV last night, Geragos ?, who said in all his years of being a lawyer, he's never seen a dead body and the guy who admitted shooting him wasn't arrested at the scene. he said its SOP to arrest first and ask questions later, even though he didn't view this as fair in the legal system. the self defense claim is something thats presented in court and normally doesn't allow a shooter to go free the night of the killing.

 

[mad sweeney]

Let's make this simple:

1. Those of you who are inclined to think that Zimmerman is guilty of murder or manslaughter: if photos from the crime scene show up that show that Zimmerman is bloody as he has claimed, or if there is another means to prove this, would you agree that there is no way to convict Zimmerman of a crime, and therefore this issue should be laid to rest?

2. Those of who are inclined to think that either Zimmerman is innocent of wrongdoing, or that there's no way to prove what happened one way or the other: if the funeral director's statement that Martin's body showed no sign of a physical struggle turns out to be provably true, would you agree that Zimmerman must therefore be lying about what happened and that he is, in fact, guilty of murder or manslaughter?

It seems to me that these two points are decisive, and if you are not willing to change your mind as a result of one of them, then you're looking at this issue without reason or justice as your main concern.

I don't see why the funeral director's statement matters in any way. Martin was supposedly the one doing the the beating, and I don't that he is qualified to make such determination anyways.

Well, your response comes as no surprise to me. Anyone else?

It is no surprise because I am correct. In most debates, you rely on qualified experts. In this case, you rely on a funeral director as some kind of medical and forensic expert, and an investigator for legal opinion. Neither does anything for me, and the investigator needs to keep his pie hole closed. Furthermore Tim, you seem to be buying into a conspiracy theory in this case, when in most cases you mock them. You need to stop parrotting the crap on MSNBC and think for yourself.. I haven't watch or listened to any of the coverage. Mostly just read this thread, but your viewpoint seems very colored by the coverage you watch.

Now THAT would be a surprise.

 

[mad sweeney]

Martin was a thug, he attacked Zimmerman, they both went after Zimmerman's gun after Martin started beating him up and Martin lost...

We went over this yesterday, all supported by witnesses, that's why no charges were files, that's why the "stand your ground" defense will not be used and Zimmerman if charged will be acquitted because he was attacked and defended himself...

All he is guilty of is being stupid, maybe...

No it's not.

The attack on Zimmerman was most definitely supported by witnesses, the thug part was my addition, wait to see how this all unfolds, bet I am a lot closer than you ...Explains the injuries the first 911 call and no evidence to charge Zimmerman...

Which on site witnesses are you looking at???

The girlfriend is absolutely unreliable and Martin has his reputation and Zimmerman has his from many, many previous instances...

Almost all of what you wrote is pure speculation. One witness said he saw them fighting. That's it. You think Martin was a thug because he was young and black and you're old and white and prejudiced.

Don't forget to look at his school history and his facebook postings...Besides we determined your status yesterday...

Yeah, teenagers never put stupid stuff on facebook or goof off at school. And I think we determined your status a long time ago.

Suspended from school 3 times, drug paraphernalia at school... Yea.. Everybody does that Trayvon's school record does not equate to "Goofing off at school"... And no, not everybody does that. Kid was definitely headed down the wrong road..

But Zimmerman's previous arrests for violent crimes don't seem to matter.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

The mom of the 13 year old is on TV right now and is also saying that when the cops interviewed son, they asked a bunch of leading questions- such as asking what color shirt was the person on the ground, suggesting different colors (like red???) even though it was too dark for the kid to see.

The lead investigator told the mother, "This is absolutely not self defense. There's been some stereotyping going on here. Read between the lines".

The kid told reporters that the guy on the ground was wearing red.

I think Mom is trying to get her 15 minutes here.

Do you have a link to this? Are you sure the kid spoke directly to reporters? Or did they get that from the police report?

It's in here. I'm not looking for it. It was an interview he gave a reporter and both of them went to the spot where the fight occurred.

chris`to`s right, the kid said the guy on the ground had a red shirt, but he also said he thought it was martin who was yelling help. It`s crazy that the only 2 witnesses who saw the altercation both looked away when the gun was fired ...what are the odds

John was in the house calling 911 when the gun was fired.. The other 911 witness, a woman, was busy trying to get someone else in the recording, her son, or boyfriend, or husband, some male, to get in another room.. But she saw the fight briefly as well..So in all, there were 3 witness'.. And a shame of a coincidence that none of them saw the gun go off..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

The mom of the 13 year old is on TV right now and is also saying that when the cops interviewed son, they asked a bunch of leading questions- such as asking what color shirt was the person on the ground, suggesting different colors (like red???) even though it was too dark for the kid to see.

The lead investigator told the mother, "This is absolutely not self defense. There's been some stereotyping going on here. Read between the lines".

The kid told reporters that the guy on the ground was wearing red.

I think Mom is trying to get her 15 minutes here.

Do you have a link to this? Are you sure the kid spoke directly to reporters? Or did they get that from the police report?

It's in here. I'm not looking for it. It was an interview he gave a reporter and both of them went to the spot where the fight occurred.

I dunno. The kid said he wants Zimmerman arrested. The kid doesn't buy the self'defense story. The kid says he thinks it was Martin screaming, but it was too dark to see. (If it was too dark to see, how would he possibly know what color shirt the person was wearing??) Something doesn't add up here. If I had to guess, it would be that what was linked before was reporters who were leaked the police interview with the kid. I don't think this witness corroborates Zimmerman's story in any way. Per the Huff Post piece, neither does the other witness. I think we may have been fed a lot of bull here as a means to protect the police department, which pretty clearly screwed up here...

You mean that he really isn't sure what he saw or heard but he's getting a ton of pressure from everyone including his mother to be the one who sinks Zimmerman's story?

That's possible I suppose. That's one way of looking at it. Not sure why you would deliberately go there. Let's forget everything else. The key part of this kid's testimony is that he saw someone on the ground screaming. If that person was Zimmerman, then it corroborates Zimmerman's story and pretty much makes it impossible to convict Zimmmerman. And the key to that is supposedly the kid said the person on the ground was wearing a red shirt. But if it was too dark to see, I don't think that this statement can possibly have any validity. Therefore, the kid's testimony is worthless and in no way corroborates Zimmerman.

At least that's my reading of it.

And wouldn't be damning of Zimmerman either then right?

 

[Clinton]

forget who it was on TV last night, Geragos ?, who said in all his years of being a lawyer, he's never seen a dead body and the guy who admitted shooting him wasn't arrested at the scene. he said its SOP to arrest first and ask questions later, even though he didn't view this as fair in the legal system. the self defense claim is something thats presented in court and normally doesn't allow a shooter to go free the night of the killing.

Unless the corpse is in the shooter's home and there are signs of breaking and entering and/or a struggle. Other than that I'd err on the side of arresting and then more thoroughly investigating a self-defense claim, and I think that is SOP.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Sorry Christo, I hadn't realized you saw it yourself.

OK, so with regard to the red shirt, we have two possibilities:

1. The kid saw a red shirt, told the police and reporters he saw a red shirt, and has now been pressured by his mom and others to change his story.

2. The kid wasn't sure what he saw because it was too dark, but was convinced by the police that he saw a red shirt, and, once having agreed to this, told the reporters the same. But now he realizes that the police manipulated him and he's back to his original stance, that he couldn't tell one way or another.

Who the heck knows? But I'm skeptical of #1, only for the reason that it was too dark to see.

Not sure how you could know this..It's not hard to see the distinction between red and grey, and we don't know what the street lights are like around there, and it was only 7:15ish..

 

[mad sweeney]

The mom of the 13 year old is on TV right now and is also saying that when the cops interviewed son, they asked a bunch of leading questions- such as asking what color shirt was the person on the ground, suggesting different colors (like red???) even though it was too dark for the kid to see.

The lead investigator told the mother, "This is absolutely not self defense. There's been some stereotyping going on here. Read between the lines".

The kid told reporters that the guy on the ground was wearing red.

I think Mom is trying to get her 15 minutes here.

Do you have a link to this? Are you sure the kid spoke directly to reporters? Or did they get that from the police report?

It's in here. I'm not looking for it. It was an interview he gave a reporter and both of them went to the spot where the fight occurred.

chris`to`s right, the kid said the guy on the ground had a red shirt, but he also said he thought it was martin who was yelling help. It`s crazy that the only 2 witnesses who saw the altercation both looked away when the gun was fired ...what are the odds

John was in the house calling 911 when the gun was fired.. The other 911 witness, a woman, was busy trying to get someone else in the recording, her son, or boyfriend, or husband, some male, to get in another room.. But she saw the fight briefly as well..So in all, there were 3 witness'.. And a shame of a coincidence that none of them saw the gun go off..

Seriously, stop it with the apostrophes. It's witnesses.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

The kid told reporters that the guy on the ground was wearing red.

I think Mom is trying to get her 15 minutes here.

Do you have a link to this? Are you sure the kid spoke directly to reporters? Or did they get that from the police report?

It's in here. I'm not looking for it. It was an interview he gave a reporter and both of them went to the spot where the fight occurred.

I dunno. The kid said he wants Zimmerman arrested. The kid doesn't buy the self'defense story. The kid says he thinks it was Martin screaming, but it was too dark to see. (If it was too dark to see, how would he possibly know what color shirt the person was wearing??) Something doesn't add up here. If I had to guess, it would be that what was linked before was reporters who were leaked the police interview with the kid. I don't think this witness corroborates Zimmerman's story in any way. Per the Huff Post piece, neither does the other witness. I think we may have been fed a lot of bull here as a means to protect the police department, which pretty clearly screwed up here...

You mean that he really isn't sure what he saw or heard but he's getting a ton of pressure from everyone including his mother to be the one who sinks Zimmerman's story?

That's possible I suppose. That's one way of looking at it. Not sure why you would deliberately go there. Let's forget everything else. The key part of this kid's testimony is that he saw someone on the ground screaming. If that person was Zimmerman, then it corroborates Zimmerman's story and pretty much makes it impossible to convict Zimmmerman. And the key to that is supposedly the kid said the person on the ground was wearing a red shirt. But if it was too dark to see, I don't think that this statement can possibly have any validity. Therefore, the kid's testimony is worthless and in no way corroborates Zimmerman.

At least that's my reading of it.

Because his mother has been out in front of this mischaracterizing what he said for about a week.

Unless she isn't. You don't know, and neither do I.

What part of this don't you get? He's given two interviews and in neither one did he say that it was clearly Martin who was yelling.

That's not my point. His testimony has been used by Zimmerman's defenders to prove that Zimmerman was on the ground. I think that this is a mischaracterization. I don't think his testimony, as best we understand it, exonerates Zimmerman. And that is the claim that some are making.

I think "John"s account would have been the stronger anyways.. This kids testimony was never the on I relied upon..

 

[meanjoegreen]

I just saw the surveillance video of Zimmerman at the police station the night of the killing, and he has zero blood on him and no signs of bruising. He does not look like someone who just got their nose broken, let alone someone who was in a fight. His face and whole body are clean.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/img/photos/2012/03/28/4e/60/Zimmerman_PD_4_t615.jpg?9d74a679772b302cd354e1e6e54b2855e904d640Holy crap....not one drop of blood. Anywhere. Hes wearing a grey t shirt that could easily be have mistaken as a white t shirt . That unzipped red jacket comes off at anytime during the struggle then its a t shirt that women saw , not a grey hoodie.

No blood that we can see.. But I think we aren't close enough to guarantee no blood, he could have had his jacket zipped during the fight.. He also received some medical aid from the SFD, face would have been cleaned up...From that pic, he's doesn't look beat up though.. Also, he doesn't look like he's have out weighed Trayvon by 100lbs as has been railed on infernally by the mob crew.. Looks closer to the 170ish that has been reported recently...

 

[Carolina Hustler]

http://media.cmgdigi...54b2855e904d640

Holy crap....not one drop of blood. Anywhere. Hes wearing a grey t shirt that could easily be have mistaken as a white t shirt . That unzipped red jacket comes off at anytime during the struggle then its a t shirt that women saw , not a grey hoodie.

He's not the fat slob I expected either.

His supposed "close friend" (more like distant acquaintance) Joe Oliver said last night that Zimmerman only weighed 170. Watching that tape, I believe it.

Proves Joe is an honest man

 

[Carolina Hustler]

http://media.cmgdigi...54b2855e904d640

Holy crap....not one drop of blood. Anywhere. Hes wearing a grey t shirt that could easily be have mistaken as a white t shirt . That unzipped red jacket comes off at anytime during the struggle then its a t shirt that women saw , not a grey hoodie.

He's not the fat slob I expected either.

His supposed "close friend" (more like distant acquaintance) Joe Oliver said last night that Zimmerman only weighed 170. Watching that tape, I believe it.

So he's not a lumbering fat guy that can't chase after Martin anymore?

Right! Also not the guy who ""out weighs Tryvon by 100 pounds who should have no trouble handling a child""Very easy now to imagine Trayvon over powering Zimmerman..

 

[Slapdash]

Zimmerman's dad did an interview (will seek link) and provided some information. He claims his son's nose was in fact broken. He doesn't believe the girl friend's phone call ever happened and he thinks that will be proven. He said George walked all the way to the end of the side walk between the buildings to get out from behind the units and get an exact address for the police. At that point he turned back down the same sidewalk to go back to his truck. The altercation happened back down that sidewalk near the other end of the buildings.

This helps me with the time frame I've been struggling to understand, and it again suggests Trayvon didn't head straight home but also turned back or backtracked and met up with George on a route back to George's car. If this is true, it's pretty strong evidence that for some reason Martin forced the confrontation by actually following George. I expect that will get a reaction from some of you, but I'm confident this portion of the story will be verified. I feel that way because it was the only way I could account for the time given the phone call I listened to. It isn't the hardest thing to map out. If that's the case then the police know that Trayvon wasn't walking home and in fact was going back towards Zimmerman's car. I'm suggesting this is obvious enough to consider it one of the facts in the case preventing George from being arrested.

The father describes a very brief conversation different than the one the girlfriend claimed and Trayvon then attacked. Broke his nose. Mounted him. Slammed his head against the sidewalk. George struggled to get on the grass. Cried for help. It lasted over a minute, and George pulled his gun.

An article with direct quotes:

"After nearly a minute of being beaten, George was trying to get his head off the concrete, trying to move with Trayvon on him, in the grass. In doing so, his firearm was shown. Trayvon Martin said something to the effect of, 'You're going to die now,' or 'You're going to die tonight' or something to that effect," Robert Zimmerman said.

Robert Zimmerman said Martin continued to beat his son, and George Zimmerman at some point pulled out his gun and "did what he did."

So do you think the girl is lying about having a call during this and ABCNews is lying about it being in the phone records?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/img/photos/2012/03/28/4e/60/Zimmerman_PD_4_t615.jpg?9d74a679772b302cd354e1e6e54b2855e904d640

Holy crap....not one drop of blood. Anywhere. Hes wearing a grey t shirt that could easily be have mistaken as a white t shirt . That unzipped red jacket comes off at anytime during the struggle then its a t shirt that women saw , not a grey hoodie.

1) It is a red jacket. Not sure blood would exactly stand out.2) You would have to ignore John's statement that the guy on the bottom was wearing red.

Nice try councilor

From that picture, you can definitively conclude that there is no blood on that red jacket?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Sorry Christo, I hadn't realized you saw it yourself.

OK, so with regard to the red shirt, we have two possibilities:

1. The kid saw a red shirt, told the police and reporters he saw a red shirt, and has now been pressured by his mom and others to change his story.

2. The kid wasn't sure what he saw because it was too dark, but was convinced by the police that he saw a red shirt, and, once having agreed to this, told the reporters the same. But now he realizes that the police manipulated him and he's back to his original stance, that he couldn't tell one way or another.

Who the heck knows? But I'm skeptical of #1, only for the reason that it was too dark to see.

I'm skeptical of it all because there's too much pressure on the kid, who is black, to side with Trayvon. It doesn't seem like he knows who was actually screaming (although he did use the word 'man') and having any doubt is going to make him lean to Trayvon.

Agreed

 

[BigSteelThrill]

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/img/photos/2012/03/28/4e/60/Zimmerman_PD_4_t615.jpg?9d74a679772b302cd354e1e6e54b2855e904d640

Holy crap....not one drop of blood. Anywhere. Hes wearing a grey t shirt that could easily be have mistaken as a white t shirt . That unzipped red jacket comes off at anytime during the struggle then its a t shirt that women saw , not a grey hoodie.

1) It is a red jacket. Not sure blood would exactly stand out.2) You would have to ignore John's statement that the guy on the bottom was wearing red.

Nice try councilor

From that picture, you can definitively conclude that there is no blood on that red jacket?

You certainly cant see any blood on that jacket in that picture.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Sorry Christo, I hadn't realized you saw it yourself. OK, so with regard to the red shirt, we have two possibilities:1. The kid saw a red shirt, told the police and reporters he saw a red shirt, and has now been pressured by his mom and others to change his story.2. The kid wasn't sure what he saw because it was too dark, but was convinced by the police that he saw a red shirt, and, once having agreed to this, told the reporters the same. But now he realizes that the police manipulated him and he's back to his original stance, that he couldn't tell one way or another.Who the heck knows? But I'm skeptical of #1, only for the reason that it was too dark to see.

I'm skeptical of it all because there's too much pressure on the kid, who is black, to side with Trayvon. It doesn't seem like he knows who was actually screaming (although he did use the word 'man') and having any doubt is going to make him lean to Trayvon.

Martin was 17. Would his voice have changed in the next year? In one year he would have been a "man" as well. I'm just not buying this crap about man v child and that all of these witnesses are so sure of themselves that they could distinguish a 17 year old's voice from a 26 year old's voice. Are we forgetting Zimmerman's voice on the phone call to the police? It wasn't like James Earl Jones was making the call.

No way anyone can tell from audio alone.. Especially since no one has ever heard either of those guys in a similar situation before.. It's not often someone has to scream for their life..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Come on you guys. Why can't you just admit it? This guy's story is total BS. Yes, it's still going to be extremely difficult to convict him, but it's obvious he's lying.

Please used proof, and not conjecture to show me how he is lying..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

http://media.cmgdigi...54b2855e904d640

Holy crap....not one drop of blood. Anywhere. Hes wearing a grey t shirt that could easily be have mistaken as a white t shirt . That unzipped red jacket comes off at anytime during the struggle then its a t shirt that women saw , not a grey hoodie.

1) It is a red jacket. Not sure blood would exactly stand out.2) You would have to ignore John's statement that the guy on the bottom was wearing red.

John! Forgot about John!They've shown that video about 20 times in the last half hour. There's no blood. There's no injury at all.

He was treated at the scene.

Yep.

Link?

Been posted in this thread numerous times.You either have an inability to retain information or you like to selectively ignore what doesn't fit your worldview.

When has it been posted in this thread that he was treated at the scene? According to who?

We had a debate about whether it was SPD or SFD and a PDF was produced showing it was SFD

 

[Yenrub]

This is my first comment in this thread but I have a hard time believing Zimmerman suffered those injuries and was still taking into custody. I also have a hard time believing Martin said what was quoted by Zimmerman's father.

Zimmerman being injured enough that he felt the need to use deadly force and his refusal to be treated at a hospital for said injuries just doesn’t add up for me.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

http://media.cmgdigi...54b2855e904d640

Holy crap....not one drop of blood. Anywhere. Hes wearing a grey t shirt that could easily be have mistaken as a white t shirt . That unzipped red jacket comes off at anytime during the struggle then its a t shirt that women saw , not a grey hoodie.

1) It is a red jacket. Not sure blood would exactly stand out.2) You would have to ignore John's statement that the guy on the bottom was wearing red.

John! Forgot about John!They've shown that video about 20 times in the last half hour. There's no blood. There's no injury at all.

He was treated at the scene.

They also send him to the laundromat?

AND they healed any and all injuries. This is crazy that people dont even trust there own eyes ...wow. Is it THAT important to keep denying that the zimmerman was full of #### !!! So you want people to believe that the beating that trey was giving him, you know, the one that was so bad he had to kill his attacker,left NO bloodanywhere in sight...not even blood from shooting trey who was on top of him when he shot the gun...ya ok.

Again.. He was wearing a red Jacket, you can't get close enough to the jacket to see if there was blood on it.. And a bloody nose would have obviously been cleaned up at this point, and a broken nose is usually not disjointed unless it's severe.Also you have not seen Zimmermans report, so you don't know if he's telling the truth or not..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Sorry Christo, I hadn't realized you saw it yourself. OK, so with regard to the red shirt, we have two possibilities:1. The kid saw a red shirt, told the police and reporters he saw a red shirt, and has now been pressured by his mom and others to change his story.2. The kid wasn't sure what he saw because it was too dark, but was convinced by the police that he saw a red shirt, and, once having agreed to this, told the reporters the same. But now he realizes that the police manipulated him and he's back to his original stance, that he couldn't tell one way or another.Who the heck knows? But I'm skeptical of #1, only for the reason that it was too dark to see.

I'm skeptical of it all because there's too much pressure on the kid, who is black, to side with Trayvon. It doesn't seem like he knows who was actually screaming (although he did use the word 'man') and having any doubt is going to make him lean to Trayvon.

Martin was 17. Would his voice have changed in the next year? In one year he would have been a "man" as well. I'm just not buying this crap about man v child and that all of these witnesses are so sure of themselves that they could distinguish a 17 year old's voice from a 26 year old's voice. Are we forgetting Zimmerman's voice on the phone call to the police? It wasn't like James Earl Jones was making the call.

Dude, this is the part where the jury is looking at you really skeptically- they're saying to themselves "are you ####### kidding me?" If you're in a civil trial, this is the part where you tell your client, "we need to settle."

 

[Carolina Hustler]

http://media.cmgdigi...54b2855e904d640

Holy crap....not one drop of blood. Anywhere. Hes wearing a grey t shirt that could easily be have mistaken as a white t shirt . That unzipped red jacket comes off at anytime during the struggle then its a t shirt that women saw , not a grey hoodie.

1) It is a red jacket. Not sure blood would exactly stand out.2) You would have to ignore John's statement that the guy on the bottom was wearing red.

John! Forgot about John!They've shown that video about 20 times in the last half hour. There's no blood. There's no injury at all.

He was treated at the scene.

They also send him to the laundromat?

No, but they might have cleaned off his face.

They probably spit into a napkin and rubbed the blood off like my mom would do.Serious question: would the cops would have taken photographs of his injuries?

You'd think so, if they were severe, also should have taken pictures of blood stained clothing as well you'd think.. But we don't know what they have..

 

[SacramentoBob]

Martin was a thug, he attacked Zimmerman, they both went after Zimmerman's gun after Martin started beating him up and Martin lost...

We went over this yesterday, all supported by witnesses, that's why no charges were files, that's why the "stand your ground" defense will not be used and Zimmerman if charged will be acquitted because he was attacked and defended himself...

All he is guilty of is being stupid, maybe...

No it's not.

The attack on Zimmerman was most definitely supported by witnesses, the thug part was my addition, wait to see how this all unfolds, bet I am a lot closer than you ...Explains the injuries the first 911 call and no evidence to charge Zimmerman...

Which on site witnesses are you looking at???

The girlfriend is absolutely unreliable and Martin has his reputation and Zimmerman has his from many, many previous instances...

Almost all of what you wrote is pure speculation. One witness said he saw them fighting. That's it. You think Martin was a thug because he was young and black and you're old and white and prejudiced.

Don't forget to look at his school history and his facebook postings...Besides we determined your status yesterday...

Yeah, teenagers never put stupid stuff on facebook or goof off at school. And I think we determined your status a long time ago.

Suspended from school 3 times, drug paraphernalia at school... Yea.. Everybody does that Trayvon's school record does not equate to "Goofing off at school"... And no, not everybody does that. Kid was definitely headed down the wrong road..

But Zimmerman's previous arrests for violent crimes don't seem to matter.

I called this reaction about 20 pages ago.

 

[SacramentoBob]

"After nearly a minute of being beaten, George was trying to get his head off the concrete, trying to move with Trayvon on him, in the grass. In doing so, his firearm was shown. Trayvon Martin said something to the effect of, 'You're going to die now,' or 'You're going to die tonight' or something to that effect," Robert Zimmerman said.Robert Zimmerman said Martin continued to beat his son, and George Zimmerman at some point pulled out his gun and "did what he did."

So Martin was beating on him. Gun is revealed. Martin says "you're gonna die now", and instead of going for the gun he just beats him more and lets Zimmerman go for his gun?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

For Zim to be full of crap on the issue of injuries then the eye witness named John would have to be lying about seeing him get beat up (unless what he saw caused no injuries), the police would have to be lying in reporting injuries, and the fire department person who treated the injuries at the scene will have to prove bogus. That's tossing quite a few folks into a conspiracy theory. Do you really think the police are stupid enough to lie about something so easily disproved? Further, I corrected cstu somewhere today about this happening on the grass. I was wrong. Martin's body was found feet on the sidewalk, body in the grass.

But.. But.. CNN says..

 

[meanjoegreen]

Zimmerman's dad did an interview (will seek link) and provided some information. He claims his son's nose was in fact broken. He doesn't believe the girl friend's phone call ever happened and he thinks that will be proven. He said George walked all the way to the end of the side walk between the buildings to get out from behind the units and get an exact address for the police. At that point he turned back down the same sidewalk to go back to his truck. The altercation happened back down that sidewalk near the other end of the buildings.

This helps me with the time frame I've been struggling to understand, and it again suggests Trayvon didn't head straight home but also turned back or backtracked and met up with George on a route back to George's car. If this is true, it's pretty strong evidence that for some reason Martin forced the confrontation by actually following George. I expect that will get a reaction from some of you, but I'm confident this portion of the story will be verified. I feel that way because it was the only way I could account for the time given the phone call I listened to. It isn't the hardest thing to map out. If that's the case then the police know that Trayvon wasn't walking home and in fact was going back towards Zimmerman's car. I'm suggesting this is obvious enough to consider it one of the facts in the case preventing George from being arrested.

The father describes a very brief conversation different than the one the girlfriend claimed and Trayvon then attacked. Broke his nose. Mounted him. Slammed his head against the sidewalk. George struggled to get on the grass. Cried for help. It lasted over a minute, and George pulled his gun.

An article with direct quotes:

"After nearly a minute of being beaten, George was trying to get his head off the concrete, trying to move with Trayvon on him, in the grass. In doing so, his firearm was shown. Trayvon Martin said something to the effect of, 'You're going to die now,' or 'You're going to die tonight' or something to that effect," Robert Zimmerman said.

Robert Zimmerman said Martin continued to beat his son, and George Zimmerman at some point pulled out his gun and "did what he did."

So do you think the girl is lying about having a call during this and ABCNews is lying about it being in the phone records?

Based on his comments in here, he doesn't want to believe the girl friend. He wants to believe Zimmerman.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

As he's walking in, the back of his head looks fine. At least you'd expect something more noticeable if his head was rammed into the sidewalk repeatedly.

I'd expect abrasions.. Not deep or wide open gouges, unless the was some gravel on the walk... Or his head was banged against the corner of the walk..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

When has it been posted in this thread that he was treated at the scene? According to who?

I will not be responding to you again until you familiarize yourself with the basic facts.

he recieved ''first aid'' in the back of a police car...they must have stitched up the big bad cut that was on the back of his head ...in this video there is NO sign of any wound lmao.http://abcnews.go.co...erman-16024564?

There's no way to tell if he had a cut on the back of his head or whether he was bleeding from the nose at the scene.

Other than the police report?

You mean the first police report that made no mention of injuries? Or the second report which said he was bleeding and treated by EMTs?

Not all of the information gets into every report.. Have you even been interviewed for a police report? Or made a written statement?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I'm watching videotape of Zimmerman being brought into the police station on the night of the shooting. No broken nose that I can see. No bruises or blood at the back of the head, either.

Not sure why they did not call you sooner. This would have been wrapped up weeks ago.

Dude. make fun of me all you want. I'm not making any assumptions. I'm just watching this on TV.

Medical diagnoses via your TV.

Just saying that I thought he would have looked more beat up if his story was true, that's all. In the grand scheme of things, means nothing. Since I started following this story, I've believed two things:1. Zimmerman is a liar and guilty of murder or manslaughter.

2. There's no way to prove it that would hold up against a reasonable doubt defense.

Those have been my suppositions all along, and I have heard nothing that changes them- yet.

I'll second the above as we stand right now.

3. The dude's life is ####ed regardless.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Christo, if he was bleeding badly from the nose or the back of the head dont you think the police would have taken photos?

Serious question: would the cops would have taken photographs of his injuries?

I have no idea.

Guys, Martin was the victim. All of these people who are telling you that the police would have without a doubt taken pictures of Zimmerman are full of it.

It was a potential homicide with the explanation being self defense. The police would have without a doubt taken pictures if there was something there. You are looking foolish and quite racist in here.

Either join the mob or be labeled a racist... sigh..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

They said they "didn't need him" to follow.. The didn't say "don't follow" or "we advise against that"

[

People keep repeating this and I have to say it's truly annoying. It reminds me of Bill Clinton discussing the definition of "is". Look, by now we've all heard the 911 tape. What was said to Zimmerman was pretty firm. They didn't want him to pursue Martin. If you don't get this, you're being deliberately obtuse.

Firm would have been "Stop following him", or "Don't follow him"This was the opposite of firm and even if the 911 operator had the authority to give advice, or direct citizens, that argument wouldn't stand up in court.. That's how far opposite of "Firm" that statement was...

Sorry it bothers you, but it's true.. They didn't tell him to do or not to do anything.. They left him to make his own decisions.. they just told him what they needed or didn't need..

You need help with context. When a 911 operator tells you they don't need you to do something, it's not phrased as a command, but it's still what the legal authorities want you to do (or not do). As much of a clown as you are about some things, you should at least be intellectually honest about this.

I know what the intent was, but it wasn't an "order" to be "disobeyed".. It wasn't direction to be followed, and it wasn't advice to be taken.. It was anything but a firm order, direction, request, advice, etc...

It was a 911 operator telling him, without using commanding language, not to do what he did. The reason why is that he's not a trained police officer and something ####ed up might happen. Like it did. Period.

He's not a trained officer, so what does that mean?Please explain this..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

For Zim to be full of crap on the issue of injuries then the eye witness named John would have to be lying about seeing him get beat up (unless what he saw caused no injuries), the police would have to be lying in reporting injuries, and the fire department person who treated the injuries at the scene will have to prove bogus. That's tossing quite a few folks into a conspiracy theory. Do you really think the police are stupid enough to lie about something so easily disproved?

This is a good argument. I'm especially interested in the fire department person- is there separately testimony from that person apart from the second police report? He never checked into the hospital. He never required stitches. Maybe he was slightly injured and exaggerated it, which would save us from having to call the police liars. But there's obviously a discrepancy here.

I took an elbow playing hoops in high school. Broke my nose. Blood coming from both nostrils, but nothing crazy. The athletic director put a locker towel over my face, set my nose, stuffed my nostrils and told me to ice it still it stopped bleeding and go home. When I got home my parents had no idea I had a broken nose. The next morning two black eyes gave it away.

Fair enough. Still think it looks awfully suspicious, but who knows?

sooo...no blood dripped onto the front of your shirt?

"No, cause my RED JACKET was covering it.."