Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (5 Viewers)

[Carolina Hustler]

and probably had his head hit on the cement?

Possible he slipped or was knocked off balance, remember it was raining, and hit his head on the cement at this point.1 hit... 1 fall... 1 head bounce... Trayvon jumps on Zim... pins him down... Zim shoots him.

In that scenario, I think Trayvon is still responsible for the gashes..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Im just using the curl up in a ball as an alternative to shooting someone in a fistfight.I guess if i knew i could get away with murder i might let the bullets rip.Up here in mass. this guy would be screwed with his version of events, only in a stand your ground state can this be a viable self defense . In this state you have to retreat, period.

That's not true..If Zimmerman's story is true, he couldn't retreat. That's simple self defense. Stand your ground wasn't needed.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Im just using the curl up in a ball as an alternative to shooting someone in a fistfight.I guess if i knew i could get away with murder i might let the bullets rip.Up here in mass. this guy would be screwed with his version of events, only in a stand your ground state can this be a viable self defense . In this state you have to retreat, period.

That's not true..If Zimmerman's story is true, he couldn't retreat. That's simple self defense. Stand your ground wasn't needed.

C`mon. That area that the fight happened at is the size of a football field hahahaha. He was cornered for sure hahaha

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Im just using the curl up in a ball as an alternative to shooting someone in a fistfight.I guess if i knew i could get away with murder i might let the bullets rip.Up here in mass. this guy would be screwed with his version of events, only in a stand your ground state can this be a viable self defense . In this state you have to retreat, period.

That's not true..If Zimmerman's story is true, he couldn't retreat. That's simple self defense. Stand your ground wasn't needed.

C`mon. That area that the fight happened at is the size of a football field hahahaha. He was cornered for sure hahaha

If Trayvon was on top of him, it doesn't matter how big the area was..

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Im just using the curl up in a ball as an alternative to shooting someone in a fistfight.I guess if i knew i could get away with murder i might let the bullets rip.Up here in mass. this guy would be screwed with his version of events, only in a stand your ground state can this be a viable self defense . In this state you have to retreat, period.

That's not true..If Zimmerman's story is true, he couldn't retreat. That's simple self defense. Stand your ground wasn't needed.

C`mon. That area that the fight happened at is the size of a football field hahahaha. He was cornered for sure hahaha

If Trayvon was on top of him, it doesn't matter how big the area was..

yes because trey JUMPED out from behind a bush that was 20 yards away and totally ambushed zimmy hahahaha...this is great comedy , thank you C.H

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Im just using the curl up in a ball as an alternative to shooting someone in a fistfight.I guess if i knew i could get away with murder i might let the bullets rip.Up here in mass. this guy would be screwed with his version of events, only in a stand your ground state can this be a viable self defense . In this state you have to retreat, period.

That's not true..If Zimmerman's story is true, he couldn't retreat. That's simple self defense. Stand your ground wasn't needed.

C`mon. That area that the fight happened at is the size of a football field hahahaha. He was cornered for sure hahaha

If Trayvon was on top of him, it doesn't matter how big the area was..

yes because trey JUMPED out from behind a bush that was 20 yards away and totally ambushed zimmy hahahaha...this is great comedy , thank you C.H

What does the bush have to do with it..?Per Zimmerman's story, Kid walked up and confronted him, Zimmerman goes for his phone, and the kids hits him a knocks him down. At that point Zimmerman would need to flee rather than shoot, but if we go by Zimmerman's story, Trayvon was on top of him before he had a chance to get up.. Fight goes on, Zimmerman can't get away, calls for help... I don't see how your point has any relevance to stand your ground.. If we go by Zimmerman's story, Stand your ground wasn't needed.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Im just using the curl up in a ball as an alternative to shooting someone in a fistfight.I guess if i knew i could get away with murder i might let the bullets rip.Up here in mass. this guy would be screwed with his version of events, only in a stand your ground state can this be a viable self defense . In this state you have to retreat, period.

That's not true..If Zimmerman's story is true, he couldn't retreat. That's simple self defense. Stand your ground wasn't needed.

C`mon. That area that the fight happened at is the size of a football field hahahaha. He was cornered for sure hahaha

If Trayvon was on top of him, it doesn't matter how big the area was..

yes because trey JUMPED out from behind a bush that was 20 yards away and totally ambushed zimmy hahahaha...this is great comedy , thank you C.H

What does the bush have to do with it..?Per Zimmerman's story, Kid walked up and confronted him, Zimmerman goes for his phone, and the kids hits him a knocks him down. At that point Zimmerman would need to flee rather than shoot, but if we go by Zimmerman's story, Trayvon was on top of him before he had a chance to get up.. Fight goes on, Zimmerman can't get away, calls for help... I don't see how your point has any relevance to stand your ground.. If we go by Zimmerman's story, Stand your ground wasn't needed.

So you are contending that zimmerman got out of his truck to follow a suspicious person at night and it never crossed his mind that it could be dangerous to do so? Do you even understand the concept of retreating? As soon as treyvon was approaching him and asking if he had a problem , thats when he should have retreated...period. He had plenty of reason to do so and plenty of time and space.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Im just using the curl up in a ball as an alternative to shooting someone in a fistfight.I guess if i knew i could get away with murder i might let the bullets rip.Up here in mass. this guy would be screwed with his version of events, only in a stand your ground state can this be a viable self defense . In this state you have to retreat, period.

That's not true..If Zimmerman's story is true, he couldn't retreat. That's simple self defense. Stand your ground wasn't needed.

C`mon. That area that the fight happened at is the size of a football field hahahaha. He was cornered for sure hahaha

If Trayvon was on top of him, it doesn't matter how big the area was..

yes because trey JUMPED out from behind a bush that was 20 yards away and totally ambushed zimmy hahahaha...this is great comedy , thank you C.H

What does the bush have to do with it..?Per Zimmerman's story, Kid walked up and confronted him, Zimmerman goes for his phone, and the kids hits him a knocks him down. At that point Zimmerman would need to flee rather than shoot, but if we go by Zimmerman's story, Trayvon was on top of him before he had a chance to get up.. Fight goes on, Zimmerman can't get away, calls for help... I don't see how your point has any relevance to stand your ground.. If we go by Zimmerman's story, Stand your ground wasn't needed.

So you are contending that zimmerman got out of his truck to follow a suspicious person at night and it never crossed his mind that it could be dangerous to do so? Do you even understand the concept of retreating? As soon as treyvon was approaching him and asking if he had a problem , thats when he should have retreated...period. He had plenty of reason to do so and plenty or time and space.

No, I'm contending that your statment of"only in a stand your ground state can this be a viable self defense" is wrong if we go by Zimmermans story..Legally, he would have been within his right to defend himself without the 'Stand Your Ground' law, according to his version of the story..

Stand your ground would have given him the right to shoot before the punch was even landed in some occasions. He shot after the punch, and while pinned on the ground. (according to his story) In that case, 'Stand Your Ground' isn't needed..

 

[Warrior]

Im just using the curl up in a ball as an alternative to shooting someone in a fistfight.I guess if i knew i could get away with murder i might let the bullets rip.Up here in mass. this guy would be screwed with his version of events, only in a stand your ground state can this be a viable self defense . In this state you have to retreat, period.

That's not true..If Zimmerman's story is true, he couldn't retreat. That's simple self defense. Stand your ground wasn't needed.

C`mon. That area that the fight happened at is the size of a football field hahahaha. He was cornered for sure hahaha

If Trayvon was on top of him, it doesn't matter how big the area was..

yes because trey JUMPED out from behind a bush that was 20 yards away and totally ambushed zimmy hahahaha...this is great comedy , thank you C.H

What does the bush have to do with it..?Per Zimmerman's story, Kid walked up and confronted him, Zimmerman goes for his phone, and the kids hits him a knocks him down. At that point Zimmerman would need to flee rather than shoot, but if we go by Zimmerman's story, Trayvon was on top of him before he had a chance to get up.. Fight goes on, Zimmerman can't get away, calls for help... I don't see how your point has any relevance to stand your ground.. If we go by Zimmerman's story, Stand your ground wasn't needed.

So you are contending that zimmerman got out of his truck to follow a suspicious person at night and it never crossed his mind that it could be dangerous to do so? Do you even understand the concept of retreating? As soon as treyvon was approaching him and asking if he had a problem , thats when he should have retreated...period. He had plenty of reason to do so and plenty of time and space.

Link?

 

[pittstownkiller]

Zimmerman recounts shooting Martin in vivid detail at the police station.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/21/12336010-zimmerman-recounts-shooting-martin-in-vivid-detail?ocid=ansmsnbc11

The one hour, 11-minute videotaped police interview was conducted almost exactly 24 hours after the single gunshot fired by Zimmerman pierced Martin's chest.

Like how he lies about what the dispatcher said. He's used to lying though, apparently.

I just watched the whole video of him at the scene explaining how it went down . One thing i noticed is how expansive that place is, he says treyvon was walking slowly and kind of loitering while looking at houses , but treyvon seemed to make up a lot of ground as zimmerman was watching him...a lot of ground fast.His story just sounds full of half truths.

His story seems a bit.......rehearsed.

well he has holes all thru his story. He changed the discussion with the dispatcher to coincide his version of events. He leaves out important detials like him running after treyvon. He says treyvon was waaaay over by the buildings then turns around and walks all the way back to his truck and then circles it, then trey walks all the way back to the buildings and disapears. After seeing the distance he had to walk its a load of crap.I heard other things that didnt add up also, like the fight part. He says trey walks up from out of nowhere and assaults him. He had just walked by the spot betwen the buildings and looked and saw nothing(the second time he passed by that spot), the closest place that trey could have been where he wouldnt be seen is like 20 yards away near the apt`s, its a wide open area. Then he discribes the punch and he then realizes hes on the grass and knows he needs to be near the cement for his story to be true, so he says oh i must have stumbled this way towards the cement . Just sounds like he is adding what he needs to add to sound justified in the shooting, not at all believable more the most part.

I'm just curious - serious question. How do you think Zimmerman got the dings on his face and the cuts on the back of his head? It would seem like the sidewalk is about the only thing around there that could cause those injuries.And one more question. Have you ever been in a fight?

ETA: With a name like "busted knuckles" I would hope so...

I never said there wasnt a fight, i think there was after zimmerman confronted treyvon. I think the cops are right, the injuries arent consistant with his version of the fight.Ive been in more fights than i care to mention, and thats why i said this shooting was bull #### from day one. Zimmerman didnt have to shoot treyvon , even if he thought so. He could have curled up in a ball and treyvon would have walked away. Like i said, after much experience in street fights ive never felt the need to fear for my life , just my pride haha.

Assuming Zim did confront Martin (I'm inclined to believe that too, but I'm not sure), you agree that Zimmerman was getting his ### kicked, and probably had his head hit on the cement? I'm just trying to establish exactly what you are thinking here.I'm not sure I agree with the cops about the injuries. A punch in the nose and a couple head bangs on the cement seem like they would create those injuries.

And, do you really think curling up in a ball when you are getting your butt kicked and you have a weapon that your opponent could use against you is a good idea? I've been in a few fights myself, and I've seen my fair share, and IMO your choices are either fight like hell or run like hell. But curling up in a ball is just inviting a nice kick to the face.

Im just using the curl up in a ball as an alternative to shooting someone in a fistfight.I guess if i knew i could get away with murder i might let the bullets rip.Up here in mass. this guy would be screwed with his version of events, only in a stand your ground state can this be a viable self defense . In this state you have to retreat, period.I think he might have hit his head falling and wrestling around with treyvon(he only had 2 cuts on his head), but by his own admission he moved himself away from the cement so that want an issue anymore. Treyvon had one little cut on his finger, if he was raining down blows as zimmy claoms he would have had bruising on his hands. Ive had swollen fingers and knuckles and teeth marks on my hands after fights.

I doubt the whole treyvon went fir the gun story either.If anything zimm pulled the gun then it was treyvon just trying to not get shot by pushing the gun hand away from him....IMO.

BK, you've made the point now several times that Zimmerman didn't have to shoot Trayvon, that instead he should of manned-up and take his ###-kicking; this is more absurd than any thing the CH, or others have typed. You also waver between the accusations that Zimmerman was some kind of spineless ##### and a cold-blooded killer; you continue this into he is an idiot who can't lie very well and some master criminal that knows exactly the yarn to spin for the police. It is tragic this kid was shot, and multitudes of things could of avoided this incidence, but to try to have it spun every way that leans to your "theories", speaks to either being clueless, obtuse, or disingenuous.

 

[BroadwayG]

So you are contending that zimmerman got out of his truck to follow a suspicious person at night and it never crossed his mind that it could be dangerous to do so? Do you even understand the concept of retreating? As soon as treyvon was approaching him and asking if he had a problem , thats when he should have retreated...period. He had plenty of reason to do so and plenty of time and space.

Sounds like treyvon was hunting zimmerman down.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

So you are contending that zimmerman got out of his truck to follow a suspicious person at night and it never crossed his mind that it could be dangerous to do so? Do you even understand the concept of retreating? As soon as treyvon was approaching him and asking if he had a problem , thats when he should have retreated...period. He had plenty of reason to do so and plenty of time and space.

Sounds like treyvon was hunting zimmerman down.

Up until that post, he has insisted it was the other way around.. I think he slipped there though, he'll certainly come back and correct us...

 

[BustedKnuckles]

So you are contending that zimmerman got out of his truck to follow a suspicious person at night and it never crossed his mind that it could be dangerous to do so? Do you even understand the concept of retreating? As soon as treyvon was approaching him and asking if he had a problem , thats when he should have retreated...period. He had plenty of reason to do so and plenty of time and space.

Sounds like treyvon was hunting zimmerman down.

Up until that post, he has insisted it was the other way around.. I think he slipped there though, he'll certainly come back and correct us...

isnt that what zimmerman is claiming? That he was attacked ? This particilar post is a conversation about how in mass. we have the duty to retreat at all costs. I know that doesnt matter in florida.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

So you are contending that zimmerman got out of his truck to follow a suspicious person at night and it never crossed his mind that it could be dangerous to do so? Do you even understand the concept of retreating? As soon as treyvon was approaching him and asking if he had a problem , thats when he should have retreated...period. He had plenty of reason to do so and plenty of time and space.

Sounds like treyvon was hunting zimmerman down.

Up until that post, he has insisted it was the other way around.. I think he slipped there though, he'll certainly come back and correct us...

isnt that what zimmerman is claiming? That he was attacked ? This particilar post is a conversation about how in mass. we have the duty to retreat at all costs. I know that doesnt matter in florida.

You can't retreat if someone is on top of you though..

 

[BustedKnuckles]

So you are contending that zimmerman got out of his truck to follow a suspicious person at night and it never crossed his mind that it could be dangerous to do so? Do you even understand the concept of retreating? As soon as treyvon was approaching him and asking if he had a problem , thats when he should have retreated...period. He had plenty of reason to do so and plenty of time and space.

Sounds like treyvon was hunting zimmerman down.

Up until that post, he has insisted it was the other way around.. I think he slipped there though, he'll certainly come back and correct us...

isnt that what zimmerman is claiming? That he was attacked ? This particilar post is a conversation about how in mass. we have the duty to retreat at all costs. I know that doesnt matter in florida.

You can't retreat if someone is on top of you though..

did you watch the video of him walking around with the cops at the scene?

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Zimmerman recounts shooting Martin in vivid detail at the police station.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/21/12336010-zimmerman-recounts-shooting-martin-in-vivid-detail?ocid=ansmsnbc11

The one hour, 11-minute videotaped police interview was conducted almost exactly 24 hours after the single gunshot fired by Zimmerman pierced Martin's chest.

Like how he lies about what the dispatcher said. He's used to lying though, apparently.

I just watched the whole video of him at the scene explaining how it went down . One thing i noticed is how expansive that place is, he says treyvon was walking slowly and kind of loitering while looking at houses , but treyvon seemed to make up a lot of ground as zimmerman was watching him...a lot of ground fast.His story just sounds full of half truths.

His story seems a bit.......rehearsed.

well he has holes all thru his story. He changed the discussion with the dispatcher to coincide his version of events. He leaves out important detials like him running after treyvon. He says treyvon was waaaay over by the buildings then turns around and walks all the way back to his truck and then circles it, then trey walks all the way back to the buildings and disapears. After seeing the distance he had to walk its a load of crap.I heard other things that didnt add up also, like the fight part. He says trey walks up from out of nowhere and assaults him. He had just walked by the spot betwen the buildings and looked and saw nothing(the second time he passed by that spot), the closest place that trey could have been where he wouldnt be seen is like 20 yards away near the apt`s, its a wide open area. Then he discribes the punch and he then realizes hes on the grass and knows he needs to be near the cement for his story to be true, so he says oh i must have stumbled this way towards the cement . Just sounds like he is adding what he needs to add to sound justified in the shooting, not at all believable more the most part.

I'm just curious - serious question. How do you think Zimmerman got the dings on his face and the cuts on the back of his head? It would seem like the sidewalk is about the only thing around there that could cause those injuries.And one more question. Have you ever been in a fight?

ETA: With a name like "busted knuckles" I would hope so...

I never said there wasnt a fight, i think there was after zimmerman confronted treyvon. I think the cops are right, the injuries arent consistant with his version of the fight.Ive been in more fights than i care to mention, and thats why i said this shooting was bull #### from day one. Zimmerman didnt have to shoot treyvon , even if he thought so. He could have curled up in a ball and treyvon would have walked away. Like i said, after much experience in street fights ive never felt the need to fear for my life , just my pride haha.

Assuming Zim did confront Martin (I'm inclined to believe that too, but I'm not sure), you agree that Zimmerman was getting his ### kicked, and probably had his head hit on the cement? I'm just trying to establish exactly what you are thinking here.I'm not sure I agree with the cops about the injuries. A punch in the nose and a couple head bangs on the cement seem like they would create those injuries.

And, do you really think curling up in a ball when you are getting your butt kicked and you have a weapon that your opponent could use against you is a good idea? I've been in a few fights myself, and I've seen my fair share, and IMO your choices are either fight like hell or run like hell. But curling up in a ball is just inviting a nice kick to the face.

Im just using the curl up in a ball as an alternative to shooting someone in a fistfight.I guess if i knew i could get away with murder i might let the bullets rip.Up here in mass. this guy would be screwed with his version of events, only in a stand your ground state can this be a viable self defense . In this state you have to retreat, period.I think he might have hit his head falling and wrestling around with treyvon(he only had 2 cuts on his head), but by his own admission he moved himself away from the cement so that want an issue anymore. Treyvon had one little cut on his finger, if he was raining down blows as zimmy claoms he would have had bruising on his hands. Ive had swollen fingers and knuckles and teeth marks on my hands after fights.

I doubt the whole treyvon went fir the gun story either.If anything zimm pulled the gun then it was treyvon just trying to not get shot by pushing the gun hand away from him....IMO.

BK, you've made the point now several times that Zimmerman didn't have to shoot Trayvon, that instead he should of manned-up and take his ###-kicking; this is more absurd than any thing the CH, or others have typed. You also waver between the accusations that Zimmerman was some kind of spineless ##### and a cold-blooded killer; you continue this into he is an idiot who can't lie very well and some master criminal that knows exactly the yarn to spin for the police. It is tragic this kid was shot, and multitudes of things could of avoided this incidence, but to try to have it spun every way that leans to your "theories", speaks to either being clueless, obtuse, or disingenuous.

Do you honestly think that a 17 yo kid with no history of violence was going to beat zimmerman to death with his bare hands right there on that grassy lawn?Zimmerman is a lying tool. Hes not that bright but hes sneaky.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Im just using the curl up in a ball as an alternative to shooting someone in a fistfight.I guess if i knew i could get away with murder i might let the bullets rip.Up here in mass. this guy would be screwed with his version of events, only in a stand your ground state can this be a viable self defense . In this state you have to retreat, period.

That's not true..If Zimmerman's story is true, he couldn't retreat. That's simple self defense. Stand your ground wasn't needed.

C`mon. That area that the fight happened at is the size of a football field hahahaha. He was cornered for sure hahaha

If Trayvon was on top of him, it doesn't matter how big the area was..

yes because trey JUMPED out from behind a bush that was 20 yards away and totally ambushed zimmy hahahaha...this is great comedy , thank you C.H

What does the bush have to do with it..?Per Zimmerman's story, Kid walked up and confronted him, Zimmerman goes for his phone, and the kids hits him a knocks him down. At that point Zimmerman would need to flee rather than shoot, but if we go by Zimmerman's story, Trayvon was on top of him before he had a chance to get up.. Fight goes on, Zimmerman can't get away, calls for help... I don't see how your point has any relevance to stand your ground.. If we go by Zimmerman's story, Stand your ground wasn't needed.

So you are contending that zimmerman got out of his truck to follow a suspicious person at night and it never crossed his mind that it could be dangerous to do so? Do you even understand the concept of retreating? As soon as treyvon was approaching him and asking if he had a problem , thats when he should have retreated...period. He had plenty of reason to do so and plenty of time and space.

Link?

link?

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Im just using the curl up in a ball as an alternative to shooting someone in a fistfight.I guess if i knew i could get away with murder i might let the bullets rip.Up here in mass. this guy would be screwed with his version of events, only in a stand your ground state can this be a viable self defense . In this state you have to retreat, period.

That's not true..If Zimmerman's story is true, he couldn't retreat. That's simple self defense. Stand your ground wasn't needed.

C`mon. That area that the fight happened at is the size of a football field hahahaha. He was cornered for sure hahaha

If Trayvon was on top of him, it doesn't matter how big the area was..

yes because trey JUMPED out from behind a bush that was 20 yards away and totally ambushed zimmy hahahaha...this is great comedy , thank you C.H

What does the bush have to do with it..?Per Zimmerman's story, Kid walked up and confronted him, Zimmerman goes for his phone, and the kids hits him a knocks him down. At that point Zimmerman would need to flee rather than shoot, but if we go by Zimmerman's story, Trayvon was on top of him before he had a chance to get up.. Fight goes on, Zimmerman can't get away, calls for help... I don't see how your point has any relevance to stand your ground.. If we go by Zimmerman's story, Stand your ground wasn't needed.

So you are contending that zimmerman got out of his truck to follow a suspicious person at night and it never crossed his mind that it could be dangerous to do so? Do you even understand the concept of retreating? As soon as treyvon was approaching him and asking if he had a problem , thats when he should have retreated...period. He had plenty of reason to do so and plenty or time and space.

No, I'm contending that your statment of"only in a stand your ground state can this be a viable self defense" is wrong if we go by Zimmermans story..Legally, he would have been within his right to defend himself without the 'Stand Your Ground' law, according to his version of the story..

Stand your ground would have given him the right to shoot before the punch was even landed in some occasions. He shot after the punch, and while pinned on the ground. (according to his story) In that case, 'Stand Your Ground' isn't needed..

Did you know that in mass. if someone breaks into your home you are required by law to try to exit your own home berfore you defend yourself from an intruder? Its stupid as hell but its the law. Zimmerman shooting an unarmed teen would be bad news for him up here. Almost impossible for him to win a self defense with his story .

 

[pittstownkiller]

BK, you've made the point now several times that Zimmerman didn't have to shoot Trayvon, that instead he should of manned-up and take his ###-kicking; this is more absurd than any thing the CH, or others have typed. You also waver between the accusations that Zimmerman was some kind of spineless ##### and a cold-blooded killer; you continue this into he is an idiot who can't lie very well and some master criminal that knows exactly the yarn to spin for the police. It is tragic this kid was shot, and multitudes of things could of avoided this incidence, but to try to have it spun every way that leans to your "theories", speaks to either being clueless, obtuse, or disingenuous.

Do you honestly think that a 17 yo kid with no history of violence was going to beat zimmerman to death with his bare hands right there on that grassy lawn?Zimmerman is a lying tool. Hes not that bright but hes sneaky.

The scenario you paint is based on nothing but your own assumptions and prejudices. Really Zimmerman hunted down Martin, then intentionally hurt himself to avoid jail, because he is a closet racist - do you know how insane this sounds? I'll be honest if I'm in a fight, death is not the first thing that goes through my mind; it is more along the lines of "do the hurting/don't get hurt" type of thing.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

So you are contending that zimmerman got out of his truck to follow a suspicious person at night and it never crossed his mind that it could be dangerous to do so? Do you even understand the concept of retreating? As soon as treyvon was approaching him and asking if he had a problem , thats when he should have retreated...period. He had plenty of reason to do so and plenty of time and space.

Sounds like treyvon was hunting zimmerman down.

Up until that post, he has insisted it was the other way around.. I think he slipped there though, he'll certainly come back and correct us...

isnt that what zimmerman is claiming? That he was attacked ? This particilar post is a conversation about how in mass. we have the duty to retreat at all costs. I know that doesnt matter in florida.

You can't retreat if someone is on top of you though..

did you watch the video of him walking around with the cops at the scene?

I did

 

[BustedKnuckles]

BK, you've made the point now several times that Zimmerman didn't have to shoot Trayvon, that instead he should of manned-up and take his ###-kicking; this is more absurd than any thing the CH, or others have typed. You also waver between the accusations that Zimmerman was some kind of spineless ##### and a cold-blooded killer; you continue this into he is an idiot who can't lie very well and some master criminal that knows exactly the yarn to spin for the police. It is tragic this kid was shot, and multitudes of things could of avoided this incidence, but to try to have it spun every way that leans to your "theories", speaks to either being clueless, obtuse, or disingenuous.

Do you honestly think that a 17 yo kid with no history of violence was going to beat zimmerman to death with his bare hands right there on that grassy lawn?Zimmerman is a lying tool. Hes not that bright but hes sneaky.

The scenario you paint is based on nothing but your own assumptions and prejudices. Really Zimmerman hunted down Martin, then intentionally hurt himself to avoid jail, because he is a closet racist - do you know how insane this sounds? I'll be honest if I'm in a fight, death is not the first thing that goes through my mind; it is more along the lines of "do the hurting/don't get hurt" type of thing.

I hope you`re not saying that I said those things, because ive never said anything even remotely close to that. Maybe you have me confused with someone else or a few different people.

 

[Witz]

BK, you've made the point now several times that Zimmerman didn't have to shoot Trayvon, that instead he should of manned-up and take his ###-kicking; this is more absurd than any thing the CH, or others have typed. You also waver between the accusations that Zimmerman was some kind of spineless ##### and a cold-blooded killer; you continue this into he is an idiot who can't lie very well and some master criminal that knows exactly the yarn to spin for the police. It is tragic this kid was shot, and multitudes of things could of avoided this incidence, but to try to have it spun every way that leans to your "theories", speaks to either being clueless, obtuse, or disingenuous.

Do you honestly think that a 17 yo kid with no history of violence was going to beat zimmerman to death with his bare hands right there on that grassy lawn?Zimmerman is a lying tool. Hes not that bright but hes sneaky.

Yet you have no problem believing that Zimmerman tracked down this kid and initiated the physical confrontation with Martin (while on the phone with the authorities and giving a blow by blow description of what he was doing)?!? Come on now.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Im just using the curl up in a ball as an alternative to shooting someone in a fistfight.I guess if i knew i could get away with murder i might let the bullets rip.Up here in mass. this guy would be screwed with his version of events, only in a stand your ground state can this be a viable self defense . In this state you have to retreat, period.

That's not true..If Zimmerman's story is true, he couldn't retreat. That's simple self defense. Stand your ground wasn't needed.

C`mon. That area that the fight happened at is the size of a football field hahahaha. He was cornered for sure hahaha

If Trayvon was on top of him, it doesn't matter how big the area was..

yes because trey JUMPED out from behind a bush that was 20 yards away and totally ambushed zimmy hahahaha...this is great comedy , thank you C.H

What does the bush have to do with it..?Per Zimmerman's story, Kid walked up and confronted him, Zimmerman goes for his phone, and the kids hits him a knocks him down. At that point Zimmerman would need to flee rather than shoot, but if we go by Zimmerman's story, Trayvon was on top of him before he had a chance to get up.. Fight goes on, Zimmerman can't get away, calls for help... I don't see how your point has any relevance to stand your ground.. If we go by Zimmerman's story, Stand your ground wasn't needed.

So you are contending that zimmerman got out of his truck to follow a suspicious person at night and it never crossed his mind that it could be dangerous to do so? Do you even understand the concept of retreating? As soon as treyvon was approaching him and asking if he had a problem , thats when he should have retreated...period. He had plenty of reason to do so and plenty or time and space.

No, I'm contending that your statment of"only in a stand your ground state can this be a viable self defense" is wrong if we go by Zimmermans story..Legally, he would have been within his right to defend himself without the 'Stand Your Ground' law, according to his version of the story..

Stand your ground would have given him the right to shoot before the punch was even landed in some occasions. He shot after the punch, and while pinned on the ground. (according to his story) In that case, 'Stand Your Ground' isn't needed..

Did you know that in mass. if someone breaks into your home you are required by law to try to exit your own home berfore you defend yourself from an intruder? Its stupid as hell but its the law. Zimmerman shooting an unarmed teen would be bad news for him up here. Almost impossible for him to win a self defense with his story .

I know that is your claim, I believe we've discussed this previously. I don't know the laws in Mass, but I do know, Zimmerman doesn't need SYG if his story is true.. In most states, you're allowed to defend yourself with lethal force if you believe your life is in danger, or you believe you're in danger of serious bodily injury. Typically you have a duty to retreat if not in your home, and if you can't retreat (Maybe you're trapped/pinned on the ground) you are legally justified in using lethal force..Stand your ground basically removes that duty to retreat.. In this case, according to Zimmerman's story, he couldn't retreat..

 

[BustedKnuckles]

So you are contending that zimmerman got out of his truck to follow a suspicious person at night and it never crossed his mind that it could be dangerous to do so? Do you even understand the concept of retreating? As soon as treyvon was approaching him and asking if he had a problem , thats when he should have retreated...period. He had plenty of reason to do so and plenty of time and space.

Sounds like treyvon was hunting zimmerman down.

Up until that post, he has insisted it was the other way around.. I think he slipped there though, he'll certainly come back and correct us...

isnt that what zimmerman is claiming? That he was attacked ? This particilar post is a conversation about how in mass. we have the duty to retreat at all costs. I know that doesnt matter in florida.

You can't retreat if someone is on top of you though..

did you watch the video of him walking around with the cops at the scene?

I did

so you saw the part where he said treyvon started walking towards him from some yards away asking him in a menacing manner if he had a problem?(according to zimmy, not me)If so then you understand what im saying about having enough time to understand that ####s about to get crazy. Thats when he could have turned and fled and or retreated.Its all right there in the video, you can see how far away the closest apt is and where treyvon must have been hiding?(again i can only assume thats what he was doing since zimmy never saw him when he looked down that way seconds before). He didnt just jump zimmy from behind , he approached and spoke first. But its only relevent in my claim that in mass, he would have had to retreat, in fla. he can stand his ground and shoot treyvon in the face at point blank range if he feels like it.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Im just using the curl up in a ball as an alternative to shooting someone in a fistfight.I guess if i knew i could get away with murder i might let the bullets rip.Up here in mass. this guy would be screwed with his version of events, only in a stand your ground state can this be a viable self defense . In this state you have to retreat, period.

That's not true..If Zimmerman's story is true, he couldn't retreat. That's simple self defense. Stand your ground wasn't needed.

C`mon. That area that the fight happened at is the size of a football field hahahaha. He was cornered for sure hahaha

If Trayvon was on top of him, it doesn't matter how big the area was..

yes because trey JUMPED out from behind a bush that was 20 yards away and totally ambushed zimmy hahahaha...this is great comedy , thank you C.H

What does the bush have to do with it..?Per Zimmerman's story, Kid walked up and confronted him, Zimmerman goes for his phone, and the kids hits him a knocks him down. At that point Zimmerman would need to flee rather than shoot, but if we go by Zimmerman's story, Trayvon was on top of him before he had a chance to get up.. Fight goes on, Zimmerman can't get away, calls for help... I don't see how your point has any relevance to stand your ground.. If we go by Zimmerman's story, Stand your ground wasn't needed.

So you are contending that zimmerman got out of his truck to follow a suspicious person at night and it never crossed his mind that it could be dangerous to do so? Do you even understand the concept of retreating? As soon as treyvon was approaching him and asking if he had a problem , thats when he should have retreated...period. He had plenty of reason to do so and plenty or time and space.

No, I'm contending that your statment of"only in a stand your ground state can this be a viable self defense" is wrong if we go by Zimmermans story..Legally, he would have been within his right to defend himself without the 'Stand Your Ground' law, according to his version of the story..

Stand your ground would have given him the right to shoot before the punch was even landed in some occasions. He shot after the punch, and while pinned on the ground. (according to his story) In that case, 'Stand Your Ground' isn't needed..

Did you know that in mass. if someone breaks into your home you are required by law to try to exit your own home berfore you defend yourself from an intruder? Its stupid as hell but its the law. Zimmerman shooting an unarmed teen would be bad news for him up here. Almost impossible for him to win a self defense with his story .

I know that is your claim, I believe we've discussed this previously. I don't know the laws in Mass, but I do know, Zimmerman doesn't need SYG if his story is true.. In most states, you're allowed to defend yourself with lethal force if you believe your life is in danger, or you believe you're in danger of serious bodily injury. Typically you have a duty to retreat if not in your home, and if you can't retreat (Maybe you're trapped/pinned on the ground) you are legally justified in using lethal force..Stand your ground basically removes that duty to retreat.. In this case, according to Zimmerman's story, he couldn't retreat..

In mass. you can only meet force with equal force to claim self defense. It would take a very unusual circumstances to over ride that.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

So you are contending that zimmerman got out of his truck to follow a suspicious person at night and it never crossed his mind that it could be dangerous to do so? Do you even understand the concept of retreating? As soon as treyvon was approaching him and asking if he had a problem , thats when he should have retreated...period. He had plenty of reason to do so and plenty of time and space.

Sounds like treyvon was hunting zimmerman down.

Up until that post, he has insisted it was the other way around.. I think he slipped there though, he'll certainly come back and correct us...

isnt that what zimmerman is claiming? That he was attacked ? This particilar post is a conversation about how in mass. we have the duty to retreat at all costs. I know that doesnt matter in florida.

You can't retreat if someone is on top of you though..

did you watch the video of him walking around with the cops at the scene?

I did

so you saw the part where he said treyvon started walking towards him from some yards away asking him in a menacing manner if he had a problem?(according to zimmy, not me)If so then you understand what im saying about having enough time to understand that ####s about to get crazy. Thats when he could have turned and fled and or retreated.Its all right there in the video, you can see how far away the closest apt is and where treyvon must have been hiding?(again i can only assume thats what he was doing since zimmy never saw him when he looked down that way seconds before). He didnt just jump zimmy from behind , he approached and spoke first. But its only relevent in my claim that in mass, he would have had to retreat, in fla. he can stand his ground and shoot treyvon in the face at point blank range if he feels like it.

Point is, according to Zimmerman, he didn't decide to use deadly force until he no longer had the ability to retreat.Zimmerman said he was looking for his phone, obviously he was not aware that he was about to get popped..BTW, regarding your tangent argument, about the nearest hiding place.. If Trayvon was hiding near or around the back porch of that first condo or 2, in the building Zimmerman had just passed, it is conceivable that Trayvon would have been able to sneak up on Zimmerman from behind when he passed. Maybe Trayvon was watching Zimmerman while he was on the phone, waiting for an opportunity to confront him, and ultimately teach him a lesson.. Ambushed on his way back to the truck..

 

[BustedKnuckles]

BK, you've made the point now several times that Zimmerman didn't have to shoot Trayvon, that instead he should of manned-up and take his ###-kicking; this is more absurd than any thing the CH, or others have typed. You also waver between the accusations that Zimmerman was some kind of spineless ##### and a cold-blooded killer; you continue this into he is an idiot who can't lie very well and some master criminal that knows exactly the yarn to spin for the police. It is tragic this kid was shot, and multitudes of things could of avoided this incidence, but to try to have it spun every way that leans to your "theories", speaks to either being clueless, obtuse, or disingenuous.

Do you honestly think that a 17 yo kid with no history of violence was going to beat zimmerman to death with his bare hands right there on that grassy lawn?Zimmerman is a lying tool. Hes not that bright but hes sneaky.

Yet you have no problem believing that Zimmerman tracked down this kid and initiated the physical confrontation with Martin (while on the phone with the authorities and giving a blow by blow description of what he was doing)?!? Come on now.

yes i watched him walk around with the cops saying that he walked all the way over to where he thought treyvon was , didnt see him so he walked even further to find a street address. What happened after that is his word against a corpse, and we all know that dead men tell no tales.Do i think he found treyvon and confronted him ? yes.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

In mass. you can only meet force with equal force to claim self defense. It would take a very unusual circumstances to over ride that.

So a woman who is being raped by a 250lb man who has broken into her apartment at night isn't allowed to shoot him? Somehow, I don't believe you understand that correctly..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

BK, you've made the point now several times that Zimmerman didn't have to shoot Trayvon, that instead he should of manned-up and take his ###-kicking; this is more absurd than any thing the CH, or others have typed. You also waver between the accusations that Zimmerman was some kind of spineless ##### and a cold-blooded killer; you continue this into he is an idiot who can't lie very well and some master criminal that knows exactly the yarn to spin for the police. It is tragic this kid was shot, and multitudes of things could of avoided this incidence, but to try to have it spun every way that leans to your "theories", speaks to either being clueless, obtuse, or disingenuous.

Do you honestly think that a 17 yo kid with no history of violence was going to beat zimmerman to death with his bare hands right there on that grassy lawn?Zimmerman is a lying tool. Hes not that bright but hes sneaky.

Yet you have no problem believing that Zimmerman tracked down this kid and initiated the physical confrontation with Martin (while on the phone with the authorities and giving a blow by blow description of what he was doing)?!? Come on now.

yes i watched him walk around with the cops saying that he walked all the way over to where he thought treyvon was , didnt see him so he walked even further to find a street address. What happened after that is his word against a corpse, and we all know that dead men tell no tales.Do i think he found treyvon and confronted him ? yes.

Maybe he did, but if it wasn't a physical confrontation that doesn't negate his ability to defend himself.

 

[timschochet]

BTW, regarding your tangent argument, about the nearest hiding place.. If Trayvon was hiding near or around the back porch of that first condo or 2, in the building Zimmerman had just passed, it is conceivable that Trayvon would have been able to sneak up on Zimmerman from behind when he passed. Maybe Trayvon was watching Zimmerman while he was on the phone, waiting for an opportunity to confront him, and ultimately teach him a lesson.. Ambushed on his way back to the truck..

I seem to recall you protesting that Z never claimed this happened.Blowing like a circle around my skull

From the Grand Coulee Dam to Capitol

 

[BustedKnuckles]

So you are contending that zimmerman got out of his truck to follow a suspicious person at night and it never crossed his mind that it could be dangerous to do so? Do you even understand the concept of retreating? As soon as treyvon was approaching him and asking if he had a problem , thats when he should have retreated...period. He had plenty of reason to do so and plenty of time and space.

Sounds like treyvon was hunting zimmerman down.

Up until that post, he has insisted it was the other way around.. I think he slipped there though, he'll certainly come back and correct us...

isnt that what zimmerman is claiming? That he was attacked ? This particilar post is a conversation about how in mass. we have the duty to retreat at all costs. I know that doesnt matter in florida.

You can't retreat if someone is on top of you though..

did you watch the video of him walking around with the cops at the scene?

I did

so you saw the part where he said treyvon started walking towards him from some yards away asking him in a menacing manner if he had a problem?(according to zimmy, not me)If so then you understand what im saying about having enough time to understand that ####s about to get crazy. Thats when he could have turned and fled and or retreated.Its all right there in the video, you can see how far away the closest apt is and where treyvon must have been hiding?(again i can only assume thats what he was doing since zimmy never saw him when he looked down that way seconds before). He didnt just jump zimmy from behind , he approached and spoke first. But its only relevent in my claim that in mass, he would have had to retreat, in fla. he can stand his ground and shoot treyvon in the face at point blank range if he feels like it.

Point is, according to Zimmerman, he didn't decide to use deadly force until he no longer had the ability to retreat.In BK world, if someone looks at you crossways, turn tail and start running..

Zimmerman said he turn to look for his phone, obviously he was not aware that he was about to get popped..

BTW, regarding your tangent argument, about the nearest hiding place.. If Trayvon was hiding near or around the back porch of that first condo or 2, in the building Zimmerman had just passed, it is conceivable that Trayvon would have been able to sneak up on Zimmerman from behind when he passed. Maybe Trayvon was watching Zimmerman while he was on the phone, waiting for an opportunity to confront him, and ultimately teach him a lesson.. Ambushed on his way back to the truck..

Only if you are armed and you know that you are putting yourself in a dangerous position by following an unknown person at night.Everytime i hear someone who carries a firearm they usually say that its there responsibility to not create a situation where you might need to shoot someone.If george was out minding his own business during a pleasant evening stroll, and some dude jumped him for his own reasons , i could understand his mindset to use deadly force as he is an innocent victim.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

BTW, regarding your tangent argument, about the nearest hiding place.. If Trayvon was hiding near or around the back porch of that first condo or 2, in the building Zimmerman had just passed, it is conceivable that Trayvon would have been able to sneak up on Zimmerman from behind when he passed. Maybe Trayvon was watching Zimmerman while he was on the phone, waiting for an opportunity to confront him, and ultimately teach him a lesson.. Ambushed on his way back to the truck..

I seem to recall you protesting that Z never claimed this happened.Blowing like a circle around my skull

From the Grand Coulee Dam to Capitol

Link?You said Zimmerman claimed Trayvon attacked him from behind. That was the comment I was contending.. Zimmerman said Trayvon approached from behind, the attack was face to face.. I've corrected you on this at least 3 times now (a conservative estimate).. I think we're past the point of having any interesting or valuable discussion, so might as well leave you to discuss with the others..

 

[BustedKnuckles]

In mass. you can only meet force with equal force to claim self defense. It would take a very unusual circumstances to over ride that.

So a woman who is being raped by a 250lb man who has broken into her apartment at night isn't allowed to shoot him? Somehow, I don't believe you understand that correctly..

If you and i get into a fight in mass. and im kicking the tar out of you , you cant even pull a knife and stab me , let alone shoot me. Let me rephrase that, you could stab or shoot me but you`re going to get arrested and if im hurt or dead you`re going to jail.

 

[timschochet]

BTW, regarding your tangent argument, about the nearest hiding place.. If Trayvon was hiding near or around the back porch of that first condo or 2, in the building Zimmerman had just passed, it is conceivable that Trayvon would have been able to sneak up on Zimmerman from behind when he passed. Maybe Trayvon was watching Zimmerman while he was on the phone, waiting for an opportunity to confront him, and ultimately teach him a lesson.. Ambushed on his way back to the truck..

I seem to recall you protesting that Z never claimed this happened.Blowing like a circle around my skull

From the Grand Coulee Dam to Capitol

Link?You said Zimmerman claimed Trayvon attacked him from behind. That was the comment I was contending.. Zimmerman said Trayvon approached from behind, the attack was face to face.. I've corrected you on this at least 3 times now (a conservative estimate).. I think we're past the point of having any interesting or valuable discussion, so might as well leave you to discuss with the others..

You think?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

So you are contending that zimmerman got out of his truck to follow a suspicious person at night and it never crossed his mind that it could be dangerous to do so? Do you even understand the concept of retreating? As soon as treyvon was approaching him and asking if he had a problem , thats when he should have retreated...period. He had plenty of reason to do so and plenty of time and space.

Sounds like treyvon was hunting zimmerman down.

Up until that post, he has insisted it was the other way around.. I think he slipped there though, he'll certainly come back and correct us...

isnt that what zimmerman is claiming? That he was attacked ? This particilar post is a conversation about how in mass. we have the duty to retreat at all costs. I know that doesnt matter in florida.

You can't retreat if someone is on top of you though..

did you watch the video of him walking around with the cops at the scene?

I did

so you saw the part where he said treyvon started walking towards him from some yards away asking him in a menacing manner if he had a problem?(according to zimmy, not me)If so then you understand what im saying about having enough time to understand that ####s about to get crazy. Thats when he could have turned and fled and or retreated.Its all right there in the video, you can see how far away the closest apt is and where treyvon must have been hiding?(again i can only assume thats what he was doing since zimmy never saw him when he looked down that way seconds before). He didnt just jump zimmy from behind , he approached and spoke first. But its only relevent in my claim that in mass, he would have had to retreat, in fla. he can stand his ground and shoot treyvon in the face at point blank range if he feels like it.

Point is, according to Zimmerman, he didn't decide to use deadly force until he no longer had the ability to retreat.In BK world, if someone looks at you crossways, turn tail and start running..

Zimmerman said he turn to look for his phone, obviously he was not aware that he was about to get popped..

BTW, regarding your tangent argument, about the nearest hiding place.. If Trayvon was hiding near or around the back porch of that first condo or 2, in the building Zimmerman had just passed, it is conceivable that Trayvon would have been able to sneak up on Zimmerman from behind when he passed. Maybe Trayvon was watching Zimmerman while he was on the phone, waiting for an opportunity to confront him, and ultimately teach him a lesson.. Ambushed on his way back to the truck..

Only if you are armed and you know that you are putting yourself in a dangerous position by following an unknown person at night.Everytime i hear someone who carries a firearm they usually say that its there responsibility to not create a situation where you might need to shoot someone.If george was out minding his own business during a pleasant evening stroll, and some dude jumped him for his own reasons , i could understand his mindset to use deadly force as he is an innocent victim.

I don't carry a gun, but if I did, I wouldn't feel any more beholden to run then I would otherwise.. I'm generally going to defuse the situation verbally, if that doesn't work I'll walk away, if that doesn't work I'll fight. If I tried to walk away, and I was armed, and the guy wouldn't let up, I'd have no problem letting the fella know I was armed, and at that point, knowing that he was intent on getting something started, I wouldn't turn my back on him again.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

In mass. you can only meet force with equal force to claim self defense. It would take a very unusual circumstances to over ride that.

So a woman who is being raped by a 250lb man who has broken into her apartment at night isn't allowed to shoot him? Somehow, I don't believe you understand that correctly..

If you and i get into a fight in mass. and im kicking the tar out of you , you cant even pull a knife and stab me , let alone shoot me. Let me rephrase that, you could stab or shoot me but you`re going to get arrested and if im hurt or dead you`re going to jail.

If you want me to picture a situation, you have to base it in reality..

 

[BustedKnuckles]

In mass. you can only meet force with equal force to claim self defense. It would take a very unusual circumstances to over ride that.

So a woman who is being raped by a 250lb man who has broken into her apartment at night isn't allowed to shoot him? Somehow, I don't believe you understand that correctly..

If you and i get into a fight in mass. and im kicking the tar out of you , you cant even pull a knife and stab me , let alone shoot me. Let me rephrase that, you could stab or shoot me but you`re going to get arrested and if im hurt or dead you`re going to jail.

If you want me to picture a situation, you have to base it in reality..

 

[pittstownkiller]

BK, you've made the point now several times that Zimmerman didn't have to shoot Trayvon, that instead he should of manned-up and take his ###-kicking; this is more absurd than any thing the CH, or others have typed. You also waver between the accusations that Zimmerman was some kind of spineless ##### and a cold-blooded killer; you continue this into he is an idiot who can't lie very well and some master criminal that knows exactly the yarn to spin for the police. It is tragic this kid was shot, and multitudes of things could of avoided this incidence, but to try to have it spun every way that leans to your "theories", speaks to either being clueless, obtuse, or disingenuous.

Do you honestly think that a 17 yo kid with no history of violence was going to beat zimmerman to death with his bare hands right there on that grassy lawn?Zimmerman is a lying tool. Hes not that bright but hes sneaky.

The scenario you paint is based on nothing but your own assumptions and prejudices. Really Zimmerman hunted down Martin, then intentionally hurt himself to avoid jail, because he is a closet racist - do you know how insane this sounds? I'll be honest if I'm in a fight, death is not the first thing that goes through my mind; it is more along the lines of "do the hurting/don't get hurt" type of thing.

I hope you`re not saying that I said those things, because ive never said anything even remotely close to that. Maybe you have me confused with someone else or a few different people.

Possibly; my apologies if I have mischaracterized your POV.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

BK, you've made the point now several times that Zimmerman didn't have to shoot Trayvon, that instead he should of manned-up and take his ###-kicking; this is more absurd than any thing the CH, or others have typed. You also waver between the accusations that Zimmerman was some kind of spineless ##### and a cold-blooded killer; you continue this into he is an idiot who can't lie very well and some master criminal that knows exactly the yarn to spin for the police. It is tragic this kid was shot, and multitudes of things could of avoided this incidence, but to try to have it spun every way that leans to your "theories", speaks to either being clueless, obtuse, or disingenuous.

Do you honestly think that a 17 yo kid with no history of violence was going to beat zimmerman to death with his bare hands right there on that grassy lawn?Zimmerman is a lying tool. Hes not that bright but hes sneaky.

The scenario you paint is based on nothing but your own assumptions and prejudices. Really Zimmerman hunted down Martin, then intentionally hurt himself to avoid jail, because he is a closet racist - do you know how insane this sounds? I'll be honest if I'm in a fight, death is not the first thing that goes through my mind; it is more along the lines of "do the hurting/don't get hurt" type of thing.

I hope you`re not saying that I said those things, because ive never said anything even remotely close to that. Maybe you have me confused with someone else or a few different people.

Possibly; my apologies if I have mischaracterized your POV.

in a thread this long and varying opinions its an honest mistake

 

[kutta]

Im just using the curl up in a ball as an alternative to shooting someone in a fistfight.I guess if i knew i could get away with murder i might let the bullets rip.Up here in mass. this guy would be screwed with his version of events, only in a stand your ground state can this be a viable self defense . In this state you have to retreat, period.

That's not true..If Zimmerman's story is true, he couldn't retreat. That's simple self defense. Stand your ground wasn't needed.

C`mon. That area that the fight happened at is the size of a football field hahahaha. He was cornered for sure hahaha

If Trayvon was on top of him, it doesn't matter how big the area was..

yes because trey JUMPED out from behind a bush that was 20 yards away and totally ambushed zimmy hahahaha...this is great comedy , thank you C.H

What does the bush have to do with it..?Per Zimmerman's story, Kid walked up and confronted him, Zimmerman goes for his phone, and the kids hits him a knocks him down. At that point Zimmerman would need to flee rather than shoot, but if we go by Zimmerman's story, Trayvon was on top of him before he had a chance to get up.. Fight goes on, Zimmerman can't get away, calls for help... I don't see how your point has any relevance to stand your ground.. If we go by Zimmerman's story, Stand your ground wasn't needed.

So you are contending that zimmerman got out of his truck to follow a suspicious person at night and it never crossed his mind that it could be dangerous to do so? Do you even understand the concept of retreating? As soon as treyvon was approaching him and asking if he had a problem , thats when he should have retreated...period. He had plenty of reason to do so and plenty or time and space.

No, I'm contending that your statment of"only in a stand your ground state can this be a viable self defense" is wrong if we go by Zimmermans story..Legally, he would have been within his right to defend himself without the 'Stand Your Ground' law, according to his version of the story..

Stand your ground would have given him the right to shoot before the punch was even landed in some occasions. He shot after the punch, and while pinned on the ground. (according to his story) In that case, 'Stand Your Ground' isn't needed..

Did you know that in mass. if someone breaks into your home you are required by law to try to exit your own home berfore you defend yourself from an intruder? Its stupid as hell but its the law. Zimmerman shooting an unarmed teen would be bad news for him up here. Almost impossible for him to win a self defense with his story .

Are you sure about that?

Massachusetts General Law, Chapter 278, Section 8(a): In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in said dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his dwelling at the time of the offense and that he acted in the reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said dwelling was about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling.

linkReading more about the Mass law, most of what you say is true about it, and it is pretty strict in favor of the bad guys.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

it's important to understand the laws in Mass regarding the use of lethal force.

1. OUTSIDE of your home you have a duty to retreat

2. You can not be part of the escalation of violence

3. You can never use lethal force to defend property

4. You must exhaust all lesser means before using lethal force

5. You must be in immediate danger of bodily harm or death (or an innocent third party)

If someone comes into your house only to steal your stuff you can not shoot them. If you're carrying on the street and someone approaches unarmed and asks for your wallet you have to hand it over. If someone cuts you off in traffic and you beep the horn you can't shoot them if they come at you with a tire iron because you escalated the violence by beeping the horn. If someone comes at you with a knife outside the home you must run. Basically if you ever shoot someone you're going to have issues so it better be a life or death situation. Even if it is life or death the chances of it ending well if you do shoot someone are very low.

My understanding of the Castle Doctrine in Mass, is that it is a watered down version of those of other states.

My understanding is that there is no presumption that someone has the intent, ability, and opportunity to kill or injure you if he unlawfully enters your house. The law as I interpret it allows you to meet deadly force with deadly force in your home without the previous obligation to run away like a crying ultra liberal #####.

I'd be real wary of depending on the Mass. Castle Doctrine to protect me in court.

On point. The thing to remember is that the statute in question does not address the circumstances that are sufficient to legitimate the use of deadly self-defense, only whether an available means of flight to avoid those circumstances must be availed.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

If you're carrying on the street and someone approaches unarmed and asks for your wallet you have to hand it over.

Actually you could try to retreat and not hand over the wallet.

 

[pittstownkiller]

it's important to understand the laws in Mass regarding the use of lethal force.1. OUTSIDE of your home you have a duty to retreat2. You can not be part of the escalation of violence3. You can never use lethal force to defend property4. You must exhaust all lesser means before using lethal force5. You must be in immediate danger of bodily harm or death (or an innocent third party)If someone comes into your house only to steal your stuff you can not shoot them. If you're carrying on the street and someone approaches unarmed and asks for your wallet you have to hand it over. If someone cuts you off in traffic and you beep the horn you can't shoot them if they come at you with a tire iron because you escalated the violence by beeping the horn. If someone comes at you with a knife outside the home you must run. Basically if you ever shoot someone you're going to have issues so it better be a life or death situation. Even if it is life or death the chances of it ending well if you do shoot someone are very low.

BK, you know that this is exactly why SYG was passed in Florida. Doesn't the Mass. law seem over the top; I have to determine what a criminal's intentions are before I defend myself. Even if I was justified, I would imagine that I would be broke trying to prove that I exhausted every method before I defended myself with a gun. I also imagine that I would have to justify that I could prove the criminals intentions, which is ludicrous. It seems like Massachusetts is trying to have some working agreement with criminals and their victims; if you can rob me before I can call the police you have a free run but of course, I hope your not a dangerous criminal. Many officials in Florida have said that the Zimmerman case is not why SYG was passed there and is a poor application of the law but I think I would rather have Florida's law than Massachusetts.

 

[pittstownkiller]

If you're carrying on the street and someone approaches unarmed and asks for your wallet you have to hand it over.

Actually you could try to retreat and not hand over the wallet.

The extent of crime has changed so much in NYC that it really isn't quite the same now but back in the day you better have had money on you when you got robbed or you got the living #### kicked out of you...or worse.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

it's important to understand the laws in Mass regarding the use of lethal force.1. OUTSIDE of your home you have a duty to retreat2. You can not be part of the escalation of violence3. You can never use lethal force to defend property4. You must exhaust all lesser means before using lethal force5. You must be in immediate danger of bodily harm or death (or an innocent third party)If someone comes into your house only to steal your stuff you can not shoot them. If you're carrying on the street and someone approaches unarmed and asks for your wallet you have to hand it over. If someone cuts you off in traffic and you beep the horn you can't shoot them if they come at you with a tire iron because you escalated the violence by beeping the horn. If someone comes at you with a knife outside the home you must run. Basically if you ever shoot someone you're going to have issues so it better be a life or death situation. Even if it is life or death the chances of it ending well if you do shoot someone are very low.

BK, you know that this is exactly why SYG was passed in Florida. Doesn't the Mass. law seem over the top; I have to determine what a criminal's intentions are before I defend myself. Even if I was justified, I would imagine that I would be broke trying to prove that I exhausted every method before I defended myself with a gun. I also imagine that I would have to justify that I could prove the criminals intentions, which is ludicrous. It seems like Massachusetts is trying to have some working agreement with criminals and their victims; if you can rob me before I can call the police you have a free run but of course, I hope your not a dangerous criminal. Many officials in Florida have said that the Zimmerman case is not why SYG was passed there and is a poor application of the law but I think I would rather have Florida's law than Massachusetts.

oh i think its a horrible law. Its the exact opposite end of the spectrum of the SYG law, which is just as bad in a different way.

 

[Charlie Frown]

Zimmerman recounts shooting Martin in vivid detail at the police station.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/21/12336010-zimmerman-recounts-shooting-martin-in-vivid-detail?ocid=ansmsnbc11

The one hour, 11-minute videotaped police interview was conducted almost exactly 24 hours after the single gunshot fired by Zimmerman pierced Martin's chest.

Like how he lies about what the dispatcher said. He's used to lying though, apparently.

I just watched the whole video of him at the scene explaining how it went down . One thing i noticed is how expansive that place is, he says treyvon was walking slowly and kind of loitering while looking at houses , but treyvon seemed to make up a lot of ground as zimmerman was watching him...a lot of ground fast.His story just sounds full of half truths.

His story seems a bit.......rehearsed.

well he has holes all thru his story. He changed the discussion with the dispatcher to coincide his version of events. He leaves out important detials like him running after treyvon. He says treyvon was waaaay over by the buildings then turns around and walks all the way back to his truck and then circles it, then trey walks all the way back to the buildings and disapears. After seeing the distance he had to walk its a load of crap.I heard other things that didnt add up also, like the fight part. He says trey walks up from out of nowhere and assaults him. He had just walked by the spot betwen the buildings and looked and saw nothing(the second time he passed by that spot), the closest place that trey could have been where he wouldnt be seen is like 20 yards away near the apt`s, its a wide open area. Then he discribes the punch and he then realizes hes on the grass and knows he needs to be near the cement for his story to be true, so he says oh i must have stumbled this way towards the cement . Just sounds like he is adding what he needs to add to sound justified in the shooting, not at all believable more the most part.

I'm just curious - serious question. How do you think Zimmerman got the dings on his face and the cuts on the back of his head? It would seem like the sidewalk is about the only thing around there that could cause those injuries.And one more question. Have you ever been in a fight?

ETA: With a name like "busted knuckles" I would hope so...

I never said there wasnt a fight, i think there was after zimmerman confronted treyvon. I think the cops are right, the injuries arent consistant with his version of the fight.Ive been in more fights than i care to mention, and thats why i said this shooting was bull #### from day one. Zimmerman didnt have to shoot treyvon , even if he thought so. He could have curled up in a ball and treyvon would have walked away. Like i said, after much experience in street fights ive never felt the need to fear for my life , just my pride haha.

Assuming Zim did confront Martin (I'm inclined to believe that too, but I'm not sure), you agree that Zimmerman was getting his ### kicked, and probably had his head hit on the cement? I'm just trying to establish exactly what you are thinking here.I'm not sure I agree with the cops about the injuries. A punch in the nose and a couple head bangs on the cement seem like they would create those injuries.

And, do you really think curling up in a ball when you are getting your butt kicked and you have a weapon that your opponent could use against you is a good idea? I've been in a few fights myself, and I've seen my fair share, and IMO your choices are either fight like hell or run like hell. But curling up in a ball is just inviting a nice kick to the face.

Im just using the curl up in a ball as an alternative to shooting someone in a fistfight.I guess if i knew i could get away with murder i might let the bullets rip.Up here in mass. this guy would be screwed with his version of events, only in a stand your ground state can this be a viable self defense . In this state you have to retreat, period.I think he might have hit his head falling and wrestling around with treyvon(he only had 2 cuts on his head), but by his own admission he moved himself away from the cement so that want an issue anymore. Treyvon had one little cut on his finger, if he was raining down blows as zimmy claoms he would have had bruising on his hands. Ive had swollen fingers and knuckles and teeth marks on my hands after fights.

I doubt the whole treyvon went fir the gun story either.If anything zimm pulled the gun then it was treyvon just trying to not get shot by pushing the gun hand away from him....IMO.

Hard to retreat when someone is on top of you beating your ###.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Hard to retreat when someone is on top of you beating your ###.

Gonna be unbelievable if Trayvon really has only 1 mark of his hands.

 

[Charlie Frown]

Do you honestly think that a 17 yo kid with no history of violence was going to beat zimmerman to death with his bare hands right there on that grassy lawn?

Zimmerman is a lying tool. Hes not that bright but hes sneaky.

Zimmerman must have. From his POV he had no idea who Martin was or what he was capable of.

 

[BroadwayG]

Hard to retreat when someone is on top of you beating your ###.

Gonna be unbelievable if Trayvon really has only 1 mark of his hands.

If the prosecution invokes the 'Massachusetts law should take precedence over local law' Zimm is toast.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Hard to retreat when someone is on top of you beating your ###.

Gonna be unbelievable if Trayvon really has only 1 mark of his hands.

If the prosecution invokes the 'Massachusetts law should take precedence over local law' Zimm is toast.

No, if Zimms (multiple) stories become unbelievable his ability to claim "reasonableness" could be negated.