Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (4 Viewers)

[Neofight]

My guess is treyvon was as scared before the fight as zimmerman became during the fight.

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Good question. Perhaps he didn't have the opportunity.

The one time I actually feared for my life enough to run was when I was about 13 or so and sitting on a tree stump at a park across the street from the house where I grew up. A group of three men pulled up in a large pickup truck and I heard the driver say clearly, though under his breath, to the two passengers "let's pick him up." Then one of the men started speaking in broken English asking for what sounded like directions while motioning me to come toward the vehicle. I immediately bolted across the park and into some bunny hills where friends and I used to ride bikes and build forts. They had no chance to catch me only because I felt that I could get to a place that I knew like the back of my hand, was impossible to drive into and because I was fast as ####. Yet almost instinctively (some might say stupidly) I didn't run the thirty or so yards to my front door. Why wouldn't I run right to my door or through the gate to the back yard, which was even closer, and instead run about a quarter of a mile to a place that was totally isolated? When I think back on this encounter I've come to believe that my response was a gut response and my instincts told me these guys were up to no good from the second that truck stopped in the middle of the road. In a split second I had to decide what they might be up to and, if it was no good, did I want them to know where I lived. The decision was instant; something just didn't feel right. Bunny hills here I come. My guess would be that if Martin was afraid of something he saw in Zimmerman he had to make a similar type of split second decision. Of course I had the advantage of knowing my neighborhood well. Trayvon was obviously at a disadvantage to Zimmerman in that regard.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

My guess is treyvon was as scared before the fight as zimmerman became during the fight.

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Based on the time line, he had time to go home. He actually turned the corner heading to the house and was out of Zimmerman's site (per the 911 recording).. I find it hard to believe he was in fear for his life yet he stuck around and engaged in a "you got a problem" conversation..

 

[pittstownkiller]

My guess is treyvon was as scared before the fight as zimmerman became during the fight.

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Good question. Perhaps he didn't have the opportunity.

If he was alive he could tell us. I have said way back in this thread that perhaps he didnt want to lead zimmy to his house if he was being followed? Who knows for sure. After seeing the size of the complex this took place at im not so sure he wasnt going home. Zimmy himself said treyvon was walking very slowly , so matbe he was taking his time as he was talking to his GF on the phone , not knowing that zimmy was on his way to look for him.One think lead to another and fate landed them face to face.

Martin could of been lost but I think that back and forth could of caused Zimmerman to be suspicious.

 

[Charlie Frown]

A question for the "pro-Trayvon" folks. What would Trayvon have had to do for you to think Zim shot him in self defense.I think we can all agree to the following:1. Something happened before a fight - we are not sure exactly who stalked whom, or exactly what happened. For the sake of this question, let's not worry about that.2. There was a fight3. At one point in the fight, Trayvon was on top of Zim (I think this is agreed upon by most people).4. Zim had bruising on his face (maybe a broken nose, but I'm not totally sure about that) and cuts on the back of his head.Given the scenario above and looking at 2, 3, and 4, if you agree with that, then is there ANYTHING that could have happened where you would say that Zim was justified in shooting him?For example:1. What if Zim's head was completely cracked open and he was losing consciousness? 2. What if his teeth were knocked out?3. What if he was being strangled with two hands around his throat?But I'm really asking for you to tell me what it would take for you to say, "OK, Zim was justified in shooting him."

me personally, it would take treyvon to have a weapon other than his hands.

I bet Ronald Poppo wished he would have been packing a gun when Rudy Eugene started beating on him.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

A question for the "pro-Trayvon" folks. What would Trayvon have had to do for you to think Zim shot him in self defense.I think we can all agree to the following:1. Something happened before a fight - we are not sure exactly who stalked whom, or exactly what happened. For the sake of this question, let's not worry about that.2. There was a fight3. At one point in the fight, Trayvon was on top of Zim (I think this is agreed upon by most people).4. Zim had bruising on his face (maybe a broken nose, but I'm not totally sure about that) and cuts on the back of his head.Given the scenario above and looking at 2, 3, and 4, if you agree with that, then is there ANYTHING that could have happened where you would say that Zim was justified in shooting him?For example:1. What if Zim's head was completely cracked open and he was losing consciousness? 2. What if his teeth were knocked out?3. What if he was being strangled with two hands around his throat?But I'm really asking for you to tell me what it would take for you to say, "OK, Zim was justified in shooting him."

me personally, it would take treyvon to have a weapon other than his hands.

I bet Ronald Poppo wished he would have been packing a gun when Rudy Eugene started beating on him.

Im sure, seeing biting is considered mayhem - the crime of willfully inflicting a bodily injury on another so as to make the victim less capable of self-defense or, under modern statutes, so as to cripple or mutilate the victim.

 

[TexanFan02]

A question for the "pro-Trayvon" folks. What would Trayvon have had to do for you to think Zim shot him in self defense.I think we can all agree to the following:1. Something happened before a fight - we are not sure exactly who stalked whom, or exactly what happened. For the sake of this question, let's not worry about that.2. There was a fight3. At one point in the fight, Trayvon was on top of Zim (I think this is agreed upon by most people).4. Zim had bruising on his face (maybe a broken nose, but I'm not totally sure about that) and cuts on the back of his head.Given the scenario above and looking at 2, 3, and 4, if you agree with that, then is there ANYTHING that could have happened where you would say that Zim was justified in shooting him?For example:1. What if Zim's head was completely cracked open and he was losing consciousness? 2. What if his teeth were knocked out?3. What if he was being strangled with two hands around his throat?But I'm really asking for you to tell me what it would take for you to say, "OK, Zim was justified in shooting him."

me personally, it would take treyvon to have a weapon other than his hands.

I bet Ronald Poppo wished he would have been packing a gun when Rudy Eugene started beating on him.

Yeah, that would be a good analogy if: Zimmerman had been a homeless man minding his own business, who was assaulted by: A crazed, adult bath salt addict. But that's not what happened here.

 

[jon_mx]

My guess is treyvon was as scared before the fight as zimmerman became during the fight.

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Good question. Perhaps he didn't have the opportunity.

The one time I actually feared for my life enough to run was when I was about 13 or so and sitting on a tree stump at a park across the street from the house where I grew up. A group of three men pulled up in a large pickup truck and I heard the driver say clearly, though under his breath, to the two passengers "let's pick him up." Then one of the men started speaking in broken English asking for what sounded like directions while motioning me to come toward the vehicle. I immediately bolted across the park and into some bunny hills where friends and I used to ride bikes and build forts. They had no chance to catch me only because I felt that I could get to a place that I knew like the back of my hand, was impossible to drive into and because I was fast as ####. Yet almost instinctively (some might say stupidly) I didn't run the thirty or so yards to my front door. Why wouldn't I run right to my door or through the gate to the back yard, which was even closer, and instead run about a quarter of a mile to a place that was totally isolated? When I think back on this encounter I've come to believe that my response was a gut response and my instincts told me these guys were up to no good from the second that truck stopped in the middle of the road. In a split second I had to decide what they might be up to and, if it was no good, did I want them to know where I lived. The decision was instant; something just didn't feel right. Bunny hills here I come. My guess would be that if Martin was afraid of something he saw in Zimmerman he had to make a similar type of split second decision. Of course I had the advantage of knowing my neighborhood well. Trayvon was obviously at a disadvantage to Zimmerman in that regard.

Martin had zero reason to fear for his life. Martin was pissed off this white-like guy was following him. Confronted him. Then attacked him and preceded to kick his ###. That story is the most logical and consistent with the facts. Martin is a big boy and does not seem the type to be scared. Zimmerman would have to be an absolute moron to start a fist fight knowing he has a gun on him. Zimmerman may be stupid, but he is not nearly that stupid.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

My guess is treyvon was as scared before the fight as zimmerman became during the fight.

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Good question. Perhaps he didn't have the opportunity.

The one time I actually feared for my life enough to run was when I was about 13 or so and sitting on a tree stump at a park across the street from the house where I grew up. A group of three men pulled up in a large pickup truck and I heard the driver say clearly, though under his breath, to the two passengers "let's pick him up." Then one of the men started speaking in broken English asking for what sounded like directions while motioning me to come toward the vehicle. I immediately bolted across the park and into some bunny hills where friends and I used to ride bikes and build forts. They had no chance to catch me only because I felt that I could get to a place that I knew like the back of my hand, was impossible to drive into and because I was fast as ####. Yet almost instinctively (some might say stupidly) I didn't run the thirty or so yards to my front door.

Why wouldn't I run right to my door or through the gate to the back yard, which was even closer, and instead run about a quarter of a mile to a place that was totally isolated? When I think back on this encounter I've come to believe that my response was a gut response and my instincts told me these guys were up to no good from the second that truck stopped in the middle of the road. In a split second I had to decide what they might be up to and, if it was no good, did I want them to know where I lived. The decision was instant; something just didn't feel right. Bunny hills here I come.

My guess would be that if Martin was afraid of something he saw in Zimmerman he had to make a similar type of split second decision. Of course I had the advantage of knowing my neighborhood well. Trayvon was obviously at a disadvantage to Zimmerman in that regard.

Martin had zero reason to fear for his life. Martin was pissed off this white-like guy was following him. Confronted him. Then attacked him and preceded to kick his ###. That story is the most logical and consistent with the facts. Martin is a big boy and does not seem the type to be scared. Zimmerman would have to be an absolute moron to start a fist fight knowing he has a gun on him. Zimmerman may be stupid, but he is not nearly that stupid.

Update at 12:15 p.m. ET: The lawyer, who took an affidavit from the girl, quotes her as saying that Trayvon was walking home from the store Feb. 26 and had temporarily taken refuge from the rain. He then began walking again, when he tells her, according to Crump, "I think this dude is following me."Update at 12: 17 p.m. ET: Crump: "She tells him, 'baby, be careful, just run home.'"

Update at 12:18 p.m. ET: According to the girl, Trayvon says, "I think I lost him" then moments later says, "He is right behind me again. I'm not going to run, I'm going to walk fast."Update at 12:23 p.m. ET: Crump, relaying the girl's description of the conversation with Trayvon as the confrontation heats up, says, "She hears other voice, 'What are you doing around here?' Trayvon says, 'Why are you following me?'" At that point, according to the girl, Travyon is pushed and his voice changes.

That first bolded part contradicts what zimmy told the cops, he said he thought it was strange that it was strange that this guy was standing in the rain.

The rest i bolded sure doesnt sound like a person whos pissed off as much as hes concerned.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

My guess is treyvon was as scared before the fight as zimmerman became during the fight.

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Good question. Perhaps he didn't have the opportunity.

The one time I actually feared for my life enough to run was when I was about 13 or so and sitting on a tree stump at a park across the street from the house where I grew up. A group of three men pulled up in a large pickup truck and I heard the driver say clearly, though under his breath, to the two passengers "let's pick him up." Then one of the men started speaking in broken English asking for what sounded like directions while motioning me to come toward the vehicle. I immediately bolted across the park and into some bunny hills where friends and I used to ride bikes and build forts. They had no chance to catch me only because I felt that I could get to a place that I knew like the back of my hand, was impossible to drive into and because I was fast as ####. Yet almost instinctively (some might say stupidly) I didn't run the thirty or so yards to my front door.

Why wouldn't I run right to my door or through the gate to the back yard, which was even closer, and instead run about a quarter of a mile to a place that was totally isolated? When I think back on this encounter I've come to believe that my response was a gut response and my instincts told me these guys were up to no good from the second that truck stopped in the middle of the road. In a split second I had to decide what they might be up to and, if it was no good, did I want them to know where I lived. The decision was instant; something just didn't feel right. Bunny hills here I come.

My guess would be that if Martin was afraid of something he saw in Zimmerman he had to make a similar type of split second decision. Of course I had the advantage of knowing my neighborhood well. Trayvon was obviously at a disadvantage to Zimmerman in that regard.

Martin had zero reason to fear for his life. Martin was pissed off this white-like guy was following him. Confronted him. Then attacked him and preceded to kick his ###. That story is the most logical and consistent with the facts. Martin is a big boy and does not seem the type to be scared. Zimmerman would have to be an absolute moron to start a fist fight knowing he has a gun on him. Zimmerman may be stupid, but he is not nearly that stupid.

Update at 12:15 p.m. ET: The lawyer, who took an affidavit from the girl, quotes her as saying that Trayvon was walking home from the store Feb. 26 and had temporarily taken refuge from the rain. He then began walking again, when he tells her, according to Crump, "I think this dude is following me."Update at 12: 17 p.m. ET: Crump: "She tells him, 'baby, be careful, just run home.'"

Update at 12:18 p.m. ET: According to the girl, Trayvon says, "I think I lost him" then moments later says, "He is right behind me again. I'm not going to run, I'm going to walk fast."Update at 12:23 p.m. ET: Crump, relaying the girl's description of the conversation with Trayvon as the confrontation heats up, says, "She hears other voice, 'What are you doing around here?' Trayvon says, 'Why are you following me?'" At that point, according to the girl, Travyon is pushed and his voice changes.

That first bolded part contradicts what zimmy told the cops, he said he thought it was strange that it was strange that this guy was standing in the rain.

The rest i bolded sure doesnt sound like a person whos pissed off as much as hes concerned.

Crump is not the most credible source for information either.. He's shown to be hugely biased throughout. And some of the crap he's said is just plain ridiculous. I don't trust a word he says..I don't know if this girl has given a police report or if she's spoken to the Investigators, or district attorney, but I assume we'll hear a different story in court if she testifies.

Throughout this process I've always thought that besides the one eye witness, she has the most to offer in this case. Unfortunately, all we have to go by is what the Martin family lawyer has said she says.. I think there was 1 audio clip I listened to early on, where Crump was the only one allowed to question her..

 

[greenroom]

My guess is treyvon was as scared before the fight as zimmerman became during the fight.

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Good question. Perhaps he didn't have the opportunity.

The one time I actually feared for my life enough to run was when I was about 13 or so and sitting on a tree stump at a park across the street from the house where I grew up. A group of three men pulled up in a large pickup truck and I heard the driver say clearly, though under his breath, to the two passengers "let's pick him up." Then one of the men started speaking in broken English asking for what sounded like directions while motioning me to come toward the vehicle. I immediately bolted across the park and into some bunny hills where friends and I used to ride bikes and build forts. They had no chance to catch me only because I felt that I could get to a place that I knew like the back of my hand, was impossible to drive into and because I was fast as ####. Yet almost instinctively (some might say stupidly) I didn't run the thirty or so yards to my front door.

Why wouldn't I run right to my door or through the gate to the back yard, which was even closer, and instead run about a quarter of a mile to a place that was totally isolated? When I think back on this encounter I've come to believe that my response was a gut response and my instincts told me these guys were up to no good from the second that truck stopped in the middle of the road. In a split second I had to decide what they might be up to and, if it was no good, did I want them to know where I lived. The decision was instant; something just didn't feel right. Bunny hills here I come.

My guess would be that if Martin was afraid of something he saw in Zimmerman he had to make a similar type of split second decision. Of course I had the advantage of knowing my neighborhood well. Trayvon was obviously at a disadvantage to Zimmerman in that regard.

Martin had zero reason to fear for his life. Martin was pissed off this white-like guy was following him. Confronted him. Then attacked him and preceded to kick his ###. That story is the most logical and consistent with the facts. Martin is a big boy and does not seem the type to be scared. Zimmerman would have to be an absolute moron to start a fist fight knowing he has a gun on him. Zimmerman may be stupid, but he is not nearly that stupid.

Update at 12:15 p.m. ET: The lawyer, who took an affidavit from the girl, quotes her as saying that Trayvon was walking home from the store Feb. 26 and had temporarily taken refuge from the rain. He then began walking again, when he tells her, according to Crump, "I think this dude is following me."Update at 12: 17 p.m. ET: Crump: "She tells him, 'baby, be careful, just run home.'"

Update at 12:18 p.m. ET: According to the girl, Trayvon says, "I think I lost him" then moments later says, "He is right behind me again. I'm not going to run, I'm going to walk fast."Update at 12:23 p.m. ET: Crump, relaying the girl's description of the conversation with Trayvon as the confrontation heats up, says, "She hears other voice, 'What are you doing around here?' Trayvon says, 'Why are you following me?'" At that point, according to the girl, Travyon is pushed and his voice changes.

That first bolded part contradicts what zimmy told the cops, he said he thought it was strange that it was strange that this guy was standing in the rain.

The rest i bolded sure doesnt sound like a person whos pissed off as much as hes concerned.

Crump is not the most credible source for information either.. He's shown to be hugely biased throughout. And some of the crap he's said is just plain ridiculous. I don't trust a word he says..I don't know if this girl has given a police report or if she's spoken to the Investigators, or district attorney, but I assume we'll hear a different story in court if she testifies.

Throughout this process I've always thought that besides the one eye witness, she has the most to offer in this case. Unfortunately, all we have to go by is what the Martin family lawyer has said she says.. I think there was 1 audio clip I listened to early on, where Crump was the only one allowed to question her..

What are you basing this on? What proof do you have that would change her story. It seems that you are ok with taking Zimmerman at his word but no one else?

 

[pantherclub]

My guess is treyvon was as scared before the fight as zimmerman became during the fight.

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Good question. Perhaps he didn't have the opportunity.

The one time I actually feared for my life enough to run was when I was about 13 or so and sitting on a tree stump at a park across the street from the house where I grew up. A group of three men pulled up in a large pickup truck and I heard the driver say clearly, though under his breath, to the two passengers "let's pick him up." Then one of the men started speaking in broken English asking for what sounded like directions while motioning me to come toward the vehicle. I immediately bolted across the park and into some bunny hills where friends and I used to ride bikes and build forts. They had no chance to catch me only because I felt that I could get to a place that I knew like the back of my hand, was impossible to drive into and because I was fast as ####. Yet almost instinctively (some might say stupidly) I didn't run the thirty or so yards to my front door.

Why wouldn't I run right to my door or through the gate to the back yard, which was even closer, and instead run about a quarter of a mile to a place that was totally isolated? When I think back on this encounter I've come to believe that my response was a gut response and my instincts told me these guys were up to no good from the second that truck stopped in the middle of the road. In a split second I had to decide what they might be up to and, if it was no good, did I want them to know where I lived. The decision was instant; something just didn't feel right. Bunny hills here I come.

My guess would be that if Martin was afraid of something he saw in Zimmerman he had to make a similar type of split second decision. Of course I had the advantage of knowing my neighborhood well. Trayvon was obviously at a disadvantage to Zimmerman in that regard.

Martin had zero reason to fear for his life. Martin was pissed off this white-like guy was following him. Confronted him. Then attacked him and preceded to kick his ###. That story is the most logical and consistent with the facts. Martin is a big boy and does not seem the type to be scared. Zimmerman would have to be an absolute moron to start a fist fight knowing he has a gun on him. Zimmerman may be stupid, but he is not nearly that stupid.

Update at 12:15 p.m. ET: The lawyer, who took an affidavit from the girl, quotes her as saying that Trayvon was walking home from the store Feb. 26 and had temporarily taken refuge from the rain. He then began walking again, when he tells her, according to Crump, "I think this dude is following me."Update at 12: 17 p.m. ET: Crump: "She tells him, 'baby, be careful, just run home.'"

Update at 12:18 p.m. ET: According to the girl, Trayvon says, "I think I lost him" then moments later says, "He is right behind me again. I'm not going to run, I'm going to walk fast."Update at 12:23 p.m. ET: Crump, relaying the girl's description of the conversation with Trayvon as the confrontation heats up, says, "She hears other voice, 'What are you doing around here?' Trayvon says, 'Why are you following me?'" At that point, according to the girl, Travyon is pushed and his voice changes.

That first bolded part contradicts what zimmy told the cops, he said he thought it was strange that it was strange that this guy was standing in the rain.

The rest i bolded sure doesnt sound like a person whos pissed off as much as hes concerned.

Crump is not the most credible source for information either.. He's shown to be hugely biased throughout. And some of the crap he's said is just plain ridiculous. I don't trust a word he says..I don't know if this girl has given a police report or if she's spoken to the Investigators, or district attorney, but I assume we'll hear a different story in court if she testifies.

Throughout this process I've always thought that besides the one eye witness, she has the most to offer in this case. Unfortunately, all we have to go by is what the Martin family lawyer has said she says.. I think there was 1 audio clip I listened to early on, where Crump was the only one allowed to question her..

Based on what and link please.oh and that is super ironic coming from you. Picking and choosing who and what to believe.

 

[jon_mx]

My guess is treyvon was as scared before the fight as zimmerman became during the fight.

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Good question. Perhaps he didn't have the opportunity.

The one time I actually feared for my life enough to run was when I was about 13 or so and sitting on a tree stump at a park across the street from the house where I grew up. A group of three men pulled up in a large pickup truck and I heard the driver say clearly, though under his breath, to the two passengers "let's pick him up." Then one of the men started speaking in broken English asking for what sounded like directions while motioning me to come toward the vehicle. I immediately bolted across the park and into some bunny hills where friends and I used to ride bikes and build forts. They had no chance to catch me only because I felt that I could get to a place that I knew like the back of my hand, was impossible to drive into and because I was fast as ####. Yet almost instinctively (some might say stupidly) I didn't run the thirty or so yards to my front door.

Why wouldn't I run right to my door or through the gate to the back yard, which was even closer, and instead run about a quarter of a mile to a place that was totally isolated? When I think back on this encounter I've come to believe that my response was a gut response and my instincts told me these guys were up to no good from the second that truck stopped in the middle of the road. In a split second I had to decide what they might be up to and, if it was no good, did I want them to know where I lived. The decision was instant; something just didn't feel right. Bunny hills here I come.

My guess would be that if Martin was afraid of something he saw in Zimmerman he had to make a similar type of split second decision. Of course I had the advantage of knowing my neighborhood well. Trayvon was obviously at a disadvantage to Zimmerman in that regard.

Martin had zero reason to fear for his life. Martin was pissed off this white-like guy was following him. Confronted him. Then attacked him and preceded to kick his ###. That story is the most logical and consistent with the facts. Martin is a big boy and does not seem the type to be scared. Zimmerman would have to be an absolute moron to start a fist fight knowing he has a gun on him. Zimmerman may be stupid, but he is not nearly that stupid.

Update at 12:15 p.m. ET: The lawyer, who took an affidavit from the girl, quotes her as saying that Trayvon was walking home from the store Feb. 26 and had temporarily taken refuge from the rain. He then began walking again, when he tells her, according to Crump, "I think this dude is following me."Update at 12: 17 p.m. ET: Crump: "She tells him, 'baby, be careful, just run home.'"

Update at 12:18 p.m. ET: According to the girl, Trayvon says, "I think I lost him" then moments later says, "He is right behind me again. I'm not going to run, I'm going to walk fast."Update at 12:23 p.m. ET: Crump, relaying the girl's description of the conversation with Trayvon as the confrontation heats up, says, "She hears other voice, 'What are you doing around here?' Trayvon says, 'Why are you following me?'" At that point, according to the girl, Travyon is pushed and his voice changes.

That first bolded part contradicts what zimmy told the cops, he said he thought it was strange that it was strange that this guy was standing in the rain.

The rest i bolded sure doesnt sound like a person whos pissed off as much as hes concerned.

Crump is not the most credible source for information either.. He's shown to be hugely biased throughout. And some of the crap he's said is just plain ridiculous. I don't trust a word he says..I don't know if this girl has given a police report or if she's spoken to the Investigators, or district attorney, but I assume we'll hear a different story in court if she testifies.

Throughout this process I've always thought that besides the one eye witness, she has the most to offer in this case. Unfortunately, all we have to go by is what the Martin family lawyer has said she says.. I think there was 1 audio clip I listened to early on, where Crump was the only one allowed to question her..

Based on what and link please.oh and that is super ironic coming from you. Picking and choosing who and what to believe.

I think her testimony is relatively accurate. My only issue is she has no way of know that Zimmerman pushed Martin. Pure speculation and I am pretty sure she is wrong. Zimmerman would have to be a complete moron to start a physical confrontation with a gun on him, and Martin sounded like he was pissed Zimmerman was following him. So my money is on Martin shoving Zimmerman.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I am pretty sure she is wrong.

Zimmerman would have to be a complete moron

Pretty much a fact at this point.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

My guess is treyvon was as scared before the fight as zimmerman became during the fight.

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Good question. Perhaps he didn't have the opportunity.

The one time I actually feared for my life enough to run was when I was about 13 or so and sitting on a tree stump at a park across the street from the house where I grew up. A group of three men pulled up in a large pickup truck and I heard the driver say clearly, though under his breath, to the two passengers "let's pick him up." Then one of the men started speaking in broken English asking for what sounded like directions while motioning me to come toward the vehicle. I immediately bolted across the park and into some bunny hills where friends and I used to ride bikes and build forts. They had no chance to catch me only because I felt that I could get to a place that I knew like the back of my hand, was impossible to drive into and because I was fast as ####. Yet almost instinctively (some might say stupidly) I didn't run the thirty or so yards to my front door.

Why wouldn't I run right to my door or through the gate to the back yard, which was even closer, and instead run about a quarter of a mile to a place that was totally isolated? When I think back on this encounter I've come to believe that my response was a gut response and my instincts told me these guys were up to no good from the second that truck stopped in the middle of the road. In a split second I had to decide what they might be up to and, if it was no good, did I want them to know where I lived. The decision was instant; something just didn't feel right. Bunny hills here I come.

My guess would be that if Martin was afraid of something he saw in Zimmerman he had to make a similar type of split second decision. Of course I had the advantage of knowing my neighborhood well. Trayvon was obviously at a disadvantage to Zimmerman in that regard.

Martin had zero reason to fear for his life. Martin was pissed off this white-like guy was following him. Confronted him. Then attacked him and preceded to kick his ###. That story is the most logical and consistent with the facts. Martin is a big boy and does not seem the type to be scared. Zimmerman would have to be an absolute moron to start a fist fight knowing he has a gun on him. Zimmerman may be stupid, but he is not nearly that stupid.

Update at 12:15 p.m. ET: The lawyer, who took an affidavit from the girl, quotes her as saying that Trayvon was walking home from the store Feb. 26 and had temporarily taken refuge from the rain. He then began walking again, when he tells her, according to Crump, "I think this dude is following me."Update at 12: 17 p.m. ET: Crump: "She tells him, 'baby, be careful, just run home.'"

Update at 12:18 p.m. ET: According to the girl, Trayvon says, "I think I lost him" then moments later says, "He is right behind me again. I'm not going to run, I'm going to walk fast."Update at 12:23 p.m. ET: Crump, relaying the girl's description of the conversation with Trayvon as the confrontation heats up, says, "She hears other voice, 'What are you doing around here?' Trayvon says, 'Why are you following me?'" At that point, according to the girl, Travyon is pushed and his voice changes.

That first bolded part contradicts what zimmy told the cops, he said he thought it was strange that it was strange that this guy was standing in the rain.

The rest i bolded sure doesnt sound like a person whos pissed off as much as hes concerned.

Crump is not the most credible source for information either.. He's shown to be hugely biased throughout. And some of the crap he's said is just plain ridiculous. I don't trust a word he says..I don't know if this girl has given a police report or if she's spoken to the Investigators, or district attorney, but I assume we'll hear a different story in court if she testifies.

Throughout this process I've always thought that besides the one eye witness, she has the most to offer in this case. Unfortunately, all we have to go by is what the Martin family lawyer has said she says.. I think there was 1 audio clip I listened to early on, where Crump was the only one allowed to question her..

Discovery: DeeDee's (Trayvon's Girlfriend) Full Statement to the State Attorney http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfVTM8sqz4k

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/19/us/trayvon-martins-friend-tells-what-she-heard-on-phone.html?_r=1

A girl who talked on the phone with Trayvon Martin on the night of Feb. 26 has told a state prosecutor that she heard rising fear in Mr. Martin’s voice that peaked with words like “get off, get off,” right before she lost contact with him and he was shot to death.

In the sworn interview recorded on April 2, which runs more than 22 minutes, the unidentified 16-year-old said Mr. Martin described a man who was “crazy and creepy” and on the phone, watching him from a vehicle before he started to follow him on foot.

A sense of urgency grew. Mr. Martin alerted the girl to the fact that Mr. Zimmerman “was getting close to him.” She strongly urged him to run, but she could tell he did not because he was out of breath and tired, and kept saying he was close to the town house where he was a guest.

 

[jon_mx]

I am pretty sure she is wrong.

Zimmerman would have to be a complete moron

Pretty much a fact at this point.

Really? Unless she can see over the phone, her statement is a pure guess and does not make any sense. I don't care how dumb Zimmerman is, he is not dumb enough to start a physical fight when he has a gun. There is just no way that is the way it went down. Not that it really matters legally, it just did not happen that way.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I am pretty sure she is wrong.

Zimmerman would have to be a complete moron

Pretty much a fact at this point.

Really? Unless she can see over the phone, her statement is a pure guess and does not make any sense. I don't care how dumb Zimmerman is, he is not dumb enough to start a physical fight when he has a gun. There is just no way that is the way it went down. Not that it really matters legally, it just did not happen that way.

Unless he was talking to her (or Zimm) at the time of a jostle, which interrupted his talking. That would be an easy giveaway.

 

[Neofight]

My guess is treyvon was as scared before the fight as zimmerman became during the fight.

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Good question. Perhaps he didn't have the opportunity.

The one time I actually feared for my life enough to run was when I was about 13 or so and sitting on a tree stump at a park across the street from the house where I grew up. A group of three men pulled up in a large pickup truck and I heard the driver say clearly, though under his breath, to the two passengers "let's pick him up." Then one of the men started speaking in broken English asking for what sounded like directions while motioning me to come toward the vehicle. I immediately bolted across the park and into some bunny hills where friends and I used to ride bikes and build forts. They had no chance to catch me only because I felt that I could get to a place that I knew like the back of my hand, was impossible to drive into and because I was fast as ####. Yet almost instinctively (some might say stupidly) I didn't run the thirty or so yards to my front door. Why wouldn't I run right to my door or through the gate to the back yard, which was even closer, and instead run about a quarter of a mile to a place that was totally isolated? When I think back on this encounter I've come to believe that my response was a gut response and my instincts told me these guys were up to no good from the second that truck stopped in the middle of the road. In a split second I had to decide what they might be up to and, if it was no good, did I want them to know where I lived. The decision was instant; something just didn't feel right. Bunny hills here I come. My guess would be that if Martin was afraid of something he saw in Zimmerman he had to make a similar type of split second decision. Of course I had the advantage of knowing my neighborhood well. Trayvon was obviously at a disadvantage to Zimmerman in that regard.

Martin had zero reason to fear for his life.

You don't know this.ETA: The rest of your post is too stupid to even respond to.

 

[jon_mx]

My guess is treyvon was as scared before the fight as zimmerman became during the fight.

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Good question. Perhaps he didn't have the opportunity.

The one time I actually feared for my life enough to run was when I was about 13 or so and sitting on a tree stump at a park across the street from the house where I grew up. A group of three men pulled up in a large pickup truck and I heard the driver say clearly, though under his breath, to the two passengers "let's pick him up." Then one of the men started speaking in broken English asking for what sounded like directions while motioning me to come toward the vehicle. I immediately bolted across the park and into some bunny hills where friends and I used to ride bikes and build forts. They had no chance to catch me only because I felt that I could get to a place that I knew like the back of my hand, was impossible to drive into and because I was fast as ####. Yet almost instinctively (some might say stupidly) I didn't run the thirty or so yards to my front door. Why wouldn't I run right to my door or through the gate to the back yard, which was even closer, and instead run about a quarter of a mile to a place that was totally isolated? When I think back on this encounter I've come to believe that my response was a gut response and my instincts told me these guys were up to no good from the second that truck stopped in the middle of the road. In a split second I had to decide what they might be up to and, if it was no good, did I want them to know where I lived. The decision was instant; something just didn't feel right. Bunny hills here I come. My guess would be that if Martin was afraid of something he saw in Zimmerman he had to make a similar type of split second decision. Of course I had the advantage of knowing my neighborhood well. Trayvon was obviously at a disadvantage to Zimmerman in that regard.

Martin had zero reason to fear for his life.

You don't know this.ETS: The rest of your post is too stupid to even respond to.

Why stupid? Because it is too stupid to admit if you had a gun there is no way in hell you would start a physical fight. There is no way in hell you do that. Just because you can't make a persuasive argument, you resort to the stupid ####.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

My guess is treyvon was as scared before the fight as zimmerman became during the fight.

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Good question. Perhaps he didn't have the opportunity.

The one time I actually feared for my life enough to run was when I was about 13 or so and sitting on a tree stump at a park across the street from the house where I grew up. A group of three men pulled up in a large pickup truck and I heard the driver say clearly, though under his breath, to the two passengers "let's pick him up." Then one of the men started speaking in broken English asking for what sounded like directions while motioning me to come toward the vehicle. I immediately bolted across the park and into some bunny hills where friends and I used to ride bikes and build forts. They had no chance to catch me only because I felt that I could get to a place that I knew like the back of my hand, was impossible to drive into and because I was fast as ####. Yet almost instinctively (some might say stupidly) I didn't run the thirty or so yards to my front door. Why wouldn't I run right to my door or through the gate to the back yard, which was even closer, and instead run about a quarter of a mile to a place that was totally isolated? When I think back on this encounter I've come to believe that my response was a gut response and my instincts told me these guys were up to no good from the second that truck stopped in the middle of the road. In a split second I had to decide what they might be up to and, if it was no good, did I want them to know where I lived. The decision was instant; something just didn't feel right. Bunny hills here I come. My guess would be that if Martin was afraid of something he saw in Zimmerman he had to make a similar type of split second decision. Of course I had the advantage of knowing my neighborhood well. Trayvon was obviously at a disadvantage to Zimmerman in that regard.

Martin had zero reason to fear for his life.

You don't know this.ETS: The rest of your post is too stupid to even respond to.

Why stupid? Because it is too stupid to admit if you had a gun there is no way in hell you would start a physical fight. There is no way in hell you do that. Just because you can't make a persuasive argument, you resort to the stupid ####.

He was stupid throughout the entire process, why would it all of a sudden be "too stupid" to perform yet another stupid thing.Im under the full belief that the gun emboldens Zimm to do things a reasonable person (or zimm without a gun) wouldnt do.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

My guess is treyvon was as scared before the fight as zimmerman became during the fight.

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Good question. Perhaps he didn't have the opportunity.

The one time I actually feared for my life enough to run was when I was about 13 or so and sitting on a tree stump at a park across the street from the house where I grew up. A group of three men pulled up in a large pickup truck and I heard the driver say clearly, though under his breath, to the two passengers "let's pick him up." Then one of the men started speaking in broken English asking for what sounded like directions while motioning me to come toward the vehicle. I immediately bolted across the park and into some bunny hills where friends and I used to ride bikes and build forts. They had no chance to catch me only because I felt that I could get to a place that I knew like the back of my hand, was impossible to drive into and because I was fast as ####. Yet almost instinctively (some might say stupidly) I didn't run the thirty or so yards to my front door. Why wouldn't I run right to my door or through the gate to the back yard, which was even closer, and instead run about a quarter of a mile to a place that was totally isolated? When I think back on this encounter I've come to believe that my response was a gut response and my instincts told me these guys were up to no good from the second that truck stopped in the middle of the road. In a split second I had to decide what they might be up to and, if it was no good, did I want them to know where I lived. The decision was instant; something just didn't feel right. Bunny hills here I come. My guess would be that if Martin was afraid of something he saw in Zimmerman he had to make a similar type of split second decision. Of course I had the advantage of knowing my neighborhood well. Trayvon was obviously at a disadvantage to Zimmerman in that regard.

Should have doubled back and confronted them.. Asked them if they had a problem..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

My guess is treyvon was as scared before the fight as zimmerman became during the fight.

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Good question. Perhaps he didn't have the opportunity.

The one time I actually feared for my life enough to run was when I was about 13 or so and sitting on a tree stump at a park across the street from the house where I grew up. A group of three men pulled up in a large pickup truck and I heard the driver say clearly, though under his breath, to the two passengers "let's pick him up." Then one of the men started speaking in broken English asking for what sounded like directions while motioning me to come toward the vehicle. I immediately bolted across the park and into some bunny hills where friends and I used to ride bikes and build forts. They had no chance to catch me only because I felt that I could get to a place that I knew like the back of my hand, was impossible to drive into and because I was fast as ####. Yet almost instinctively (some might say stupidly) I didn't run the thirty or so yards to my front door.

Why wouldn't I run right to my door or through the gate to the back yard, which was even closer, and instead run about a quarter of a mile to a place that was totally isolated? When I think back on this encounter I've come to believe that my response was a gut response and my instincts told me these guys were up to no good from the second that truck stopped in the middle of the road. In a split second I had to decide what they might be up to and, if it was no good, did I want them to know where I lived. The decision was instant; something just didn't feel right. Bunny hills here I come.

My guess would be that if Martin was afraid of something he saw in Zimmerman he had to make a similar type of split second decision. Of course I had the advantage of knowing my neighborhood well. Trayvon was obviously at a disadvantage to Zimmerman in that regard.

Martin had zero reason to fear for his life. Martin was pissed off this white-like guy was following him. Confronted him. Then attacked him and preceded to kick his ###. That story is the most logical and consistent with the facts. Martin is a big boy and does not seem the type to be scared. Zimmerman would have to be an absolute moron to start a fist fight knowing he has a gun on him. Zimmerman may be stupid, but he is not nearly that stupid.

Update at 12:15 p.m. ET: The lawyer, who took an affidavit from the girl, quotes her as saying that Trayvon was walking home from the store Feb. 26 and had temporarily taken refuge from the rain. He then began walking again, when he tells her, according to Crump, "I think this dude is following me."Update at 12: 17 p.m. ET: Crump: "She tells him, 'baby, be careful, just run home.'"

Update at 12:18 p.m. ET: According to the girl, Trayvon says, "I think I lost him" then moments later says, "He is right behind me again. I'm not going to run, I'm going to walk fast."Update at 12:23 p.m. ET: Crump, relaying the girl's description of the conversation with Trayvon as the confrontation heats up, says, "She hears other voice, 'What are you doing around here?' Trayvon says, 'Why are you following me?'" At that point, according to the girl, Travyon is pushed and his voice changes.

That first bolded part contradicts what zimmy told the cops, he said he thought it was strange that it was strange that this guy was standing in the rain.

The rest i bolded sure doesnt sound like a person whos pissed off as much as hes concerned.

Crump is not the most credible source for information either.. He's shown to be hugely biased throughout. And some of the crap he's said is just plain ridiculous. I don't trust a word he says..I don't know if this girl has given a police report or if she's spoken to the Investigators, or district attorney, but I assume we'll hear a different story in court if she testifies.

Throughout this process I've always thought that besides the one eye witness, she has the most to offer in this case. Unfortunately, all we have to go by is what the Martin family lawyer has said she says.. I think there was 1 audio clip I listened to early on, where Crump was the only one allowed to question her..

What are you basing this on? What proof do you have that would change her story. It seems that you are ok with taking Zimmerman at his word but no one else?

I didn't say she'd change her story.. I assume there is more to her story than Crump is suggesting.. You have Crump's version of her story.. The Martin family lawyer. You think he's been reasonable and unbiased so far? The guy is an absolute clown..I have never said I was taking Zimmerman's word for it.. Look back a few pages and you'll see I think he's embellished details of the story and/or filled in details he doesn't remember rather than saying he doesn't remember..

Edit to add:

Just listened to her interview with the states prosecutor. And I look forward to hearing her questioned by the Defense attorney..

 

[Neofight]

My guess is treyvon was as scared before the fight as zimmerman became during the fight.

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Good question. Perhaps he didn't have the opportunity.

The one time I actually feared for my life enough to run was when I was about 13 or so and sitting on a tree stump at a park across the street from the house where I grew up. A group of three men pulled up in a large pickup truck and I heard the driver say clearly, though under his breath, to the two passengers "let's pick him up." Then one of the men started speaking in broken English asking for what sounded like directions while motioning me to come toward the vehicle. I immediately bolted across the park and into some bunny hills where friends and I used to ride bikes and build forts. They had no chance to catch me only because I felt that I could get to a place that I knew like the back of my hand, was impossible to drive into and because I was fast as ####. Yet almost instinctively (some might say stupidly) I didn't run the thirty or so yards to my front door. Why wouldn't I run right to my door or through the gate to the back yard, which was even closer, and instead run about a quarter of a mile to a place that was totally isolated? When I think back on this encounter I've come to believe that my response was a gut response and my instincts told me these guys were up to no good from the second that truck stopped in the middle of the road. In a split second I had to decide what they might be up to and, if it was no good, did I want them to know where I lived. The decision was instant; something just didn't feel right. Bunny hills here I come. My guess would be that if Martin was afraid of something he saw in Zimmerman he had to make a similar type of split second decision. Of course I had the advantage of knowing my neighborhood well. Trayvon was obviously at a disadvantage to Zimmerman in that regard.

Martin had zero reason to fear for his life.

You don't know this.ETS: The rest of your post is too stupid to even respond to.

Why stupid? Because it is too stupid to admit if you had a gun there is no way in hell you would start a physical fight. There is no way in hell you do that. Just because you can't make a persuasive argument, you resort to the stupid ####.

He was stupid throughout the entire process, why would it all of a sudden be "too stupid" to perform yet another stupid thing.Im under the full belief that the gun emboldens Zimm to do things a reasonable person (or zimm without a gun) wouldnt do.

It's not just that, it's that his knowledge of the law gave him a ridiculous safety blanket. So he gets his ### kicked. Big deal; just pull the trigger despite the pleas. He was in a no lose situation. The only reason he might get convicted is because he is so damn stupid (despite what Christo has written earlier in the thread).

 

[Neofight]

My guess is treyvon was as scared before the fight as zimmerman became during the fight.

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Good question. Perhaps he didn't have the opportunity.

The one time I actually feared for my life enough to run was when I was about 13 or so and sitting on a tree stump at a park across the street from the house where I grew up. A group of three men pulled up in a large pickup truck and I heard the driver say clearly, though under his breath, to the two passengers "let's pick him up." Then one of the men started speaking in broken English asking for what sounded like directions while motioning me to come toward the vehicle. I immediately bolted across the park and into some bunny hills where friends and I used to ride bikes and build forts. They had no chance to catch me only because I felt that I could get to a place that I knew like the back of my hand, was impossible to drive into and because I was fast as ####. Yet almost instinctively (some might say stupidly) I didn't run the thirty or so yards to my front door.

Why wouldn't I run right to my door or through the gate to the back yard, which was even closer, and instead run about a quarter of a mile to a place that was totally isolated? When I think back on this encounter I've come to believe that my response was a gut response and my instincts told me these guys were up to no good from the second that truck stopped in the middle of the road. In a split second I had to decide what they might be up to and, if it was no good, did I want them to know where I lived. The decision was instant; something just didn't feel right. Bunny hills here I come.

My guess would be that if Martin was afraid of something he saw in Zimmerman he had to make a similar type of split second decision. Of course I had the advantage of knowing my neighborhood well. Trayvon was obviously at a disadvantage to Zimmerman in that regard.

Should have doubled back and confronted them.. Asked them if they had a problem..

You're making my point for me. Teenage boys aren't exactly paragons of sound decision making. Even if Trayvon did double back and confront Zimmerman—which there is no evidence of—so what? It was up to the adult in the situation to act in a responsible and rational manner. The problem is Zimmerman wasn't capable of that.

 

[jon_mx]

When you start a physical fight with a gun on your possession, there is no guarantee who is going to be the one who ends up with the gun. Nobody would do that. On one hand, Zimmerman is this intelligent guy who understands the intricacies of the law, but on the other hand he is a complete moron who starts a physical fight with a loaded gun on his possession. Sorry, that story is not believable.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

When you start a physical fight with a gun on your possession, there is no guarantee who is going to be the one who ends up with the gun. Nobody would do that.

Nobody reasonable would do that. Thus Zimm is excluded.ftr: nobody reasonable would handle the Judge the way he did either.

 

[Neofight]

When you start a physical fight with a gun on your possession, there is no guarantee who is going to be the one who ends up with the gun. Nobody would do that. On one hand, Zimmerman is this intelligent guy who understands the intricacies of the law, but on the other hand he is a complete moron who starts a physical fight with a loaded gun on his possession. Sorry, that story is not believable.

Christ you are inane. Who said Zimmerman was intelligent? He had knowledge of the law. So what? That doesn't make him a lawyer, as if even that means anything based on some of the comments in this very thread by those who do practice law. I also never said Zimmerman started the fight. I said he got his ### kicked. Big ups, Georgie! And who's to say he didn't start the fight (besides you jon)?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I am pretty sure she is wrong.

Zimmerman would have to be a complete moron

Pretty much a fact at this point.

Really? Unless she can see over the phone, her statement is a pure guess and does not make any sense. I don't care how dumb Zimmerman is, he is not dumb enough to start a physical fight when he has a gun. There is just no way that is the way it went down. Not that it really matters legally, it just did not happen that way.

Unless he was talking to her (or Zimm) at the time of a jostle, which interrupted his talking. That would be an easy giveaway.

That wouldn't prove who hit who first.. Listening to her interview with the prosecutor, doesn't sound like that's the case anyways..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

My guess is treyvon was as scared before the fight as zimmerman became during the fight.

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Good question. Perhaps he didn't have the opportunity.

The one time I actually feared for my life enough to run was when I was about 13 or so and sitting on a tree stump at a park across the street from the house where I grew up. A group of three men pulled up in a large pickup truck and I heard the driver say clearly, though under his breath, to the two passengers "let's pick him up." Then one of the men started speaking in broken English asking for what sounded like directions while motioning me to come toward the vehicle. I immediately bolted across the park and into some bunny hills where friends and I used to ride bikes and build forts. They had no chance to catch me only because I felt that I could get to a place that I knew like the back of my hand, was impossible to drive into and because I was fast as ####. Yet almost instinctively (some might say stupidly) I didn't run the thirty or so yards to my front door.

Why wouldn't I run right to my door or through the gate to the back yard, which was even closer, and instead run about a quarter of a mile to a place that was totally isolated? When I think back on this encounter I've come to believe that my response was a gut response and my instincts told me these guys were up to no good from the second that truck stopped in the middle of the road. In a split second I had to decide what they might be up to and, if it was no good, did I want them to know where I lived. The decision was instant; something just didn't feel right. Bunny hills here I come.

My guess would be that if Martin was afraid of something he saw in Zimmerman he had to make a similar type of split second decision. Of course I had the advantage of knowing my neighborhood well. Trayvon was obviously at a disadvantage to Zimmerman in that regard.

Should have doubled back and confronted them.. Asked them if they had a problem..

You're making my point for me. Teenage boys aren't exactly paragons of sound decision making. Even if Trayvon did double back and confront Zimmerman—which there is no evidence of—so what? It was up to the adult in the situation to act in a responsible and rational manner. The problem is Zimmerman wasn't capable of that.

Your anecdote proves nothing.. His GF says he was going home even though someone was following him.. Sorry, all that typing for nothing..

 

[Neofight]

My guess is treyvon was as scared before the fight as zimmerman became during the fight.

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Good question. Perhaps he didn't have the opportunity.

The one time I actually feared for my life enough to run was when I was about 13 or so and sitting on a tree stump at a park across the street from the house where I grew up. A group of three men pulled up in a large pickup truck and I heard the driver say clearly, though under his breath, to the two passengers "let's pick him up." Then one of the men started speaking in broken English asking for what sounded like directions while motioning me to come toward the vehicle. I immediately bolted across the park and into some bunny hills where friends and I used to ride bikes and build forts. They had no chance to catch me only because I felt that I could get to a place that I knew like the back of my hand, was impossible to drive into and because I was fast as ####. Yet almost instinctively (some might say stupidly) I didn't run the thirty or so yards to my front door.

Why wouldn't I run right to my door or through the gate to the back yard, which was even closer, and instead run about a quarter of a mile to a place that was totally isolated? When I think back on this encounter I've come to believe that my response was a gut response and my instincts told me these guys were up to no good from the second that truck stopped in the middle of the road. In a split second I had to decide what they might be up to and, if it was no good, did I want them to know where I lived. The decision was instant; something just didn't feel right. Bunny hills here I come.

My guess would be that if Martin was afraid of something he saw in Zimmerman he had to make a similar type of split second decision. Of course I had the advantage of knowing my neighborhood well. Trayvon was obviously at a disadvantage to Zimmerman in that regard.

Should have doubled back and confronted them.. Asked them if they had a problem..

You're making my point for me. Teenage boys aren't exactly paragons of sound decision making. Even if Trayvon did double back and confront Zimmerman—which there is no evidence of—so what? It was up to the adult in the situation to act in a responsible and rational manner. The problem is Zimmerman wasn't capable of that.

Your anecdote proves nothing.. His GF says he was going home even though someone was following him.. Sorry, all that typing for nothing..

Your attempt at a bon mot (or two) proved you admit that you have no idea what did happen between those two. Stop pretending like you do, or that who struck the first blow even matters.It's been repeated ad nauseum that Martin ran from Zimmerman, starting with Zimmerman's statement to the 911 operator. Why do you think that was? Type as much as you need to.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

My guess is treyvon was as scared before the fight as zimmerman became during the fight.

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Good question. Perhaps he didn't have the opportunity.

The one time I actually feared for my life enough to run was when I was about 13 or so and sitting on a tree stump at a park across the street from the house where I grew up. A group of three men pulled up in a large pickup truck and I heard the driver say clearly, though under his breath, to the two passengers "let's pick him up." Then one of the men started speaking in broken English asking for what sounded like directions while motioning me to come toward the vehicle. I immediately bolted across the park and into some bunny hills where friends and I used to ride bikes and build forts. They had no chance to catch me only because I felt that I could get to a place that I knew like the back of my hand, was impossible to drive into and because I was fast as ####. Yet almost instinctively (some might say stupidly) I didn't run the thirty or so yards to my front door.

Why wouldn't I run right to my door or through the gate to the back yard, which was even closer, and instead run about a quarter of a mile to a place that was totally isolated? When I think back on this encounter I've come to believe that my response was a gut response and my instincts told me these guys were up to no good from the second that truck stopped in the middle of the road. In a split second I had to decide what they might be up to and, if it was no good, did I want them to know where I lived. The decision was instant; something just didn't feel right. Bunny hills here I come.

My guess would be that if Martin was afraid of something he saw in Zimmerman he had to make a similar type of split second decision. Of course I had the advantage of knowing my neighborhood well. Trayvon was obviously at a disadvantage to Zimmerman in that regard.

Should have doubled back and confronted them.. Asked them if they had a problem..

You're making my point for me. Teenage boys aren't exactly paragons of sound decision making. Even if Trayvon did double back and confront Zimmerman—which there is no evidence of—so what? It was up to the adult in the situation to act in a responsible and rational manner. The problem is Zimmerman wasn't capable of that.

Your anecdote proves nothing.. His GF says he was going home even though someone was following him.. Sorry, all that typing for nothing..

Your attempt at a bon mot (or two) proved you admit that you have no idea what did happen between those two. Stop pretending like you do, or that who struck the first blow even matters.It's been repeated ad nauseum that Martin ran from Zimmerman, starting with Zimmerman's statement to the 911 operator. Why do you think that was? Type as much as you need to.

Your anecdote sounded like an excuse for why Trayvon wouldn't be home yet by suggesting he wasn't going to lead Zimmerman to his home. Tray's GF says he was going home even with Zimmerman following him.. Seems like a dead end for you on that argument..I've always admitted I don't know what happened, all of my posts are prefaced with "If we go by <insert name>'s story, then yadda yadda".. The person that struck the first blow does matter.. It shows the initiation of physical aggression.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

My guess is treyvon was as scared before the fight as zimmerman became during the fight.

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Good question. Perhaps he didn't have the opportunity.

The one time I actually feared for my life enough to run was when I was about 13 or so and sitting on a tree stump at a park across the street from the house where I grew up. A group of three men pulled up in a large pickup truck and I heard the driver say clearly, though under his breath, to the two passengers "let's pick him up." Then one of the men started speaking in broken English asking for what sounded like directions while motioning me to come toward the vehicle. I immediately bolted across the park and into some bunny hills where friends and I used to ride bikes and build forts. They had no chance to catch me only because I felt that I could get to a place that I knew like the back of my hand, was impossible to drive into and because I was fast as ####. Yet almost instinctively (some might say stupidly) I didn't run the thirty or so yards to my front door.

Why wouldn't I run right to my door or through the gate to the back yard, which was even closer, and instead run about a quarter of a mile to a place that was totally isolated? When I think back on this encounter I've come to believe that my response was a gut response and my instincts told me these guys were up to no good from the second that truck stopped in the middle of the road. In a split second I had to decide what they might be up to and, if it was no good, did I want them to know where I lived. The decision was instant; something just didn't feel right. Bunny hills here I come.

My guess would be that if Martin was afraid of something he saw in Zimmerman he had to make a similar type of split second decision. Of course I had the advantage of knowing my neighborhood well. Trayvon was obviously at a disadvantage to Zimmerman in that regard.

Should have doubled back and confronted them.. Asked them if they had a problem..

You're making my point for me. Teenage boys aren't exactly paragons of sound decision making. Even if Trayvon did double back and confront Zimmerman—which there is no evidence of—so what? It was up to the adult in the situation to act in a responsible and rational manner. The problem is Zimmerman wasn't capable of that.

Your anecdote proves nothing.. His GF says he was going home even though someone was following him.. Sorry, all that typing for nothing..

Your attempt at a bon mot (or two) proved you admit that you have no idea what did happen between those two. Stop pretending like you do, or that who struck the first blow even matters.It's been repeated ad nauseum that Martin ran from Zimmerman, starting with Zimmerman's statement to the 911 operator. Why do you think that was? Type as much as you need to.

Your anecdote sounded like an excuse for why Trayvon wouldn't be home yet by suggesting he wasn't going to lead Zimmerman to his home. Tray's GF says he was going home even with Zimmerman following him.. Seems like a dead end for you on that argument..I've always admitted I don't know what happened, all of my posts are prefaced with "If we go by <insert name>'s story, then yadda yadda".. The person that struck the first blow does matter.. It shows the initiation of physical aggression.

Let me just say, from my days as a bouncer... the initiation of physical aggression doesnt have to begin with the first blow.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

My guess is treyvon was as scared before the fight as zimmerman became during the fight.

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Good question. Perhaps he didn't have the opportunity.

The one time I actually feared for my life enough to run was when I was about 13 or so and sitting on a tree stump at a park across the street from the house where I grew up. A group of three men pulled up in a large pickup truck and I heard the driver say clearly, though under his breath, to the two passengers "let's pick him up." Then one of the men started speaking in broken English asking for what sounded like directions while motioning me to come toward the vehicle. I immediately bolted across the park and into some bunny hills where friends and I used to ride bikes and build forts. They had no chance to catch me only because I felt that I could get to a place that I knew like the back of my hand, was impossible to drive into and because I was fast as ####. Yet almost instinctively (some might say stupidly) I didn't run the thirty or so yards to my front door.

Why wouldn't I run right to my door or through the gate to the back yard, which was even closer, and instead run about a quarter of a mile to a place that was totally isolated? When I think back on this encounter I've come to believe that my response was a gut response and my instincts told me these guys were up to no good from the second that truck stopped in the middle of the road. In a split second I had to decide what they might be up to and, if it was no good, did I want them to know where I lived. The decision was instant; something just didn't feel right. Bunny hills here I come.

My guess would be that if Martin was afraid of something he saw in Zimmerman he had to make a similar type of split second decision. Of course I had the advantage of knowing my neighborhood well. Trayvon was obviously at a disadvantage to Zimmerman in that regard.

Should have doubled back and confronted them.. Asked them if they had a problem..

You're making my point for me. Teenage boys aren't exactly paragons of sound decision making. Even if Trayvon did double back and confront Zimmerman—which there is no evidence of—so what? It was up to the adult in the situation to act in a responsible and rational manner. The problem is Zimmerman wasn't capable of that.

Your anecdote proves nothing.. His GF says he was going home even though someone was following him.. Sorry, all that typing for nothing..

Your attempt at a bon mot (or two) proved you admit that you have no idea what did happen between those two. Stop pretending like you do, or that who struck the first blow even matters.It's been repeated ad nauseum that Martin ran from Zimmerman, starting with Zimmerman's statement to the 911 operator. Why do you think that was? Type as much as you need to.

Your anecdote sounded like an excuse for why Trayvon wouldn't be home yet by suggesting he wasn't going to lead Zimmerman to his home. Tray's GF says he was going home even with Zimmerman following him.. Seems like a dead end for you on that argument..I've always admitted I don't know what happened, all of my posts are prefaced with "If we go by <insert name>'s story, then yadda yadda".. The person that struck the first blow does matter.. It shows the initiation of physical aggression.

Let me just say, from my days as a bouncer... the initiation of physical aggression doesnt have to begin with the first blow.

First aggressive physical contact could have been a push, or a grab.. I get it..Doesn't seem like that has much bearing on what we're saying though, unless that's what Neo intended.. I assumed he was going to say that Zimmerman following Trayvon made him the aggressor..

 

[Charlie Frown]

A question for the "pro-Trayvon" folks. What would Trayvon have had to do for you to think Zim shot him in self defense.I think we can all agree to the following:1. Something happened before a fight - we are not sure exactly who stalked whom, or exactly what happened. For the sake of this question, let's not worry about that.2. There was a fight3. At one point in the fight, Trayvon was on top of Zim (I think this is agreed upon by most people).4. Zim had bruising on his face (maybe a broken nose, but I'm not totally sure about that) and cuts on the back of his head.Given the scenario above and looking at 2, 3, and 4, if you agree with that, then is there ANYTHING that could have happened where you would say that Zim was justified in shooting him?For example:1. What if Zim's head was completely cracked open and he was losing consciousness? 2. What if his teeth were knocked out?3. What if he was being strangled with two hands around his throat?But I'm really asking for you to tell me what it would take for you to say, "OK, Zim was justified in shooting him."

me personally, it would take treyvon to have a weapon other than his hands.

I bet Ronald Poppo wished he would have been packing a gun when Rudy Eugene started beating on him.

Im sure, seeing biting is considered mayhem - the crime of willfully inflicting a bodily injury on another so as to make the victim less capable of self-defense or, under modern statutes, so as to cripple or mutilate the victim.

Well it started out as a "simple" beating but got much worse obviously. Why is it so unreasonable (and stupid according to some) for Zimmerman to have been in fear for his life?

 

[Neofight]

My guess is treyvon was as scared before the fight as zimmerman became during the fight.

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Good question. Perhaps he didn't have the opportunity.

The one time I actually feared for my life enough to run was when I was about 13 or so and sitting on a tree stump at a park across the street from the house where I grew up. A group of three men pulled up in a large pickup truck and I heard the driver say clearly, though under his breath, to the two passengers "let's pick him up." Then one of the men started speaking in broken English asking for what sounded like directions while motioning me to come toward the vehicle. I immediately bolted across the park and into some bunny hills where friends and I used to ride bikes and build forts. They had no chance to catch me only because I felt that I could get to a place that I knew like the back of my hand, was impossible to drive into and because I was fast as ####. Yet almost instinctively (some might say stupidly) I didn't run the thirty or so yards to my front door.

Why wouldn't I run right to my door or through the gate to the back yard, which was even closer, and instead run about a quarter of a mile to a place that was totally isolated? When I think back on this encounter I've come to believe that my response was a gut response and my instincts told me these guys were up to no good from the second that truck stopped in the middle of the road. In a split second I had to decide what they might be up to and, if it was no good, did I want them to know where I lived. The decision was instant; something just didn't feel right. Bunny hills here I come.

My guess would be that if Martin was afraid of something he saw in Zimmerman he had to make a similar type of split second decision. Of course I had the advantage of knowing my neighborhood well. Trayvon was obviously at a disadvantage to Zimmerman in that regard.

Should have doubled back and confronted them.. Asked them if they had a problem..

You're making my point for me. Teenage boys aren't exactly paragons of sound decision making. Even if Trayvon did double back and confront Zimmerman—which there is no evidence of—so what? It was up to the adult in the situation to act in a responsible and rational manner. The problem is Zimmerman wasn't capable of that.

Your anecdote proves nothing.. His GF says he was going home even though someone was following him.. Sorry, all that typing for nothing..

Your attempt at a bon mot (or two) proved you admit that you have no idea what did happen between those two. Stop pretending like you do, or that who struck the first blow even matters.It's been repeated ad nauseum that Martin ran from Zimmerman, starting with Zimmerman's statement to the 911 operator. Why do you think that was? Type as much as you need to.

Your anecdote sounded like an excuse for why Trayvon wouldn't be home yet by suggesting he wasn't going to lead Zimmerman to his home. Tray's GF says he was going home even with Zimmerman following him.. Seems like a dead end for you on that argument..I've always admitted I don't know what happened, all of my posts are prefaced with "If we go by <insert name>'s story, then yadda yadda".. The person that struck the first blow does matter.. It shows the initiation of physical aggression.

How does what Trayvon's girlfriend told him to do have anything to do with what actually happened? Did he respond in the affirmative? The logical leaps in this thread are why I stayed away for such a long time. Help restore my faith, Carolina.No.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

A question for the "pro-Trayvon" folks. What would Trayvon have had to do for you to think Zim shot him in self defense.I think we can all agree to the following:1. Something happened before a fight - we are not sure exactly who stalked whom, or exactly what happened. For the sake of this question, let's not worry about that.2. There was a fight3. At one point in the fight, Trayvon was on top of Zim (I think this is agreed upon by most people).4. Zim had bruising on his face (maybe a broken nose, but I'm not totally sure about that) and cuts on the back of his head.Given the scenario above and looking at 2, 3, and 4, if you agree with that, then is there ANYTHING that could have happened where you would say that Zim was justified in shooting him?For example:1. What if Zim's head was completely cracked open and he was losing consciousness? 2. What if his teeth were knocked out?3. What if he was being strangled with two hands around his throat?But I'm really asking for you to tell me what it would take for you to say, "OK, Zim was justified in shooting him."

me personally, it would take treyvon to have a weapon other than his hands.

I bet Ronald Poppo wished he would have been packing a gun when Rudy Eugene started beating on him.

Im sure, seeing biting is considered mayhem - the crime of willfully inflicting a bodily injury on another so as to make the victim less capable of self-defense or, under modern statutes, so as to cripple or mutilate the victim.

Well it started out as a "simple" beating but got much worse obviously. Why is it so unreasonable (and stupid according to some) for Zimmerman to have been in fear for his life?

Look, heres the issue. If you are going to be a self declared neighborhood crime watcher and if you`re going to do more than just watch, then you had better be ready for a confrontation or 2. Knowing that and knowing you are carrying a loaded gun makes you either crazy or stupid, not brave.If he feared for his life he put himself into that situation. I think he should have thought out what he was doing before he did it seeing he has a responsibility as a gun owner to be careful who he follows or confronts. Of the 2 people involved , treyvon and george , im guessing the guy with the gun is psychologically the more confident heading into a fight then the kid who only has his hands.

 

[kutta]

A question for the "pro-Trayvon" folks. What would Trayvon have had to do for you to think Zim shot him in self defense.I think we can all agree to the following:1. Something happened before a fight - we are not sure exactly who stalked whom, or exactly what happened. For the sake of this question, let's not worry about that.2. There was a fight3. At one point in the fight, Trayvon was on top of Zim (I think this is agreed upon by most people).4. Zim had bruising on his face (maybe a broken nose, but I'm not totally sure about that) and cuts on the back of his head.Given the scenario above and looking at 2, 3, and 4, if you agree with that, then is there ANYTHING that could have happened where you would say that Zim was justified in shooting him?For example:1. What if Zim's head was completely cracked open and he was losing consciousness? 2. What if his teeth were knocked out?3. What if he was being strangled with two hands around his throat?But I'm really asking for you to tell me what it would take for you to say, "OK, Zim was justified in shooting him."

me personally, it would take treyvon to have a weapon other than his hands.

I bet Ronald Poppo wished he would have been packing a gun when Rudy Eugene started beating on him.

Im sure, seeing biting is considered mayhem - the crime of willfully inflicting a bodily injury on another so as to make the victim less capable of self-defense or, under modern statutes, so as to cripple or mutilate the victim.

Well it started out as a "simple" beating but got much worse obviously. Why is it so unreasonable (and stupid according to some) for Zimmerman to have been in fear for his life?

Look, heres the issue. If you are going to be a self declared neighborhood crime watcher and if you`re going to do more than just watch, then you had better be ready for a confrontation or 2. Knowing that and knowing you are carrying a loaded gun makes you either crazy or stupid, not brave.If he feared for his life he put himself into that situation. I think he should have thought out what he was doing before he did it seeing he has a responsibility as a gun owner to be careful who he follows or confronts. Of the 2 people involved , treyvon and george , im guessing the guy with the gun is psychologically the more confident heading into a fight then the kid who only has his hands.

Everything you say is true.But it doesn't change the fact that he could have shot Trayvon in self defense. No matter how the situation started, it quite possibly ended with him fearing for his life and shooting Trayvon.If there is a crime for being stupid, convict Zim. If there is a crime for irresponsibility while carrying a loaded gun, then sure, he could be guilty of that. False bravado, convict him. But I'm not sure he should be convicted of murder.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

A question for the "pro-Trayvon" folks. What would Trayvon have had to do for you to think Zim shot him in self defense.I think we can all agree to the following:1. Something happened before a fight - we are not sure exactly who stalked whom, or exactly what happened. For the sake of this question, let's not worry about that.2. There was a fight3. At one point in the fight, Trayvon was on top of Zim (I think this is agreed upon by most people).4. Zim had bruising on his face (maybe a broken nose, but I'm not totally sure about that) and cuts on the back of his head.Given the scenario above and looking at 2, 3, and 4, if you agree with that, then is there ANYTHING that could have happened where you would say that Zim was justified in shooting him?For example:1. What if Zim's head was completely cracked open and he was losing consciousness? 2. What if his teeth were knocked out?3. What if he was being strangled with two hands around his throat?But I'm really asking for you to tell me what it would take for you to say, "OK, Zim was justified in shooting him."

me personally, it would take treyvon to have a weapon other than his hands.

I bet Ronald Poppo wished he would have been packing a gun when Rudy Eugene started beating on him.

Im sure, seeing biting is considered mayhem - the crime of willfully inflicting a bodily injury on another so as to make the victim less capable of self-defense or, under modern statutes, so as to cripple or mutilate the victim.

Well it started out as a "simple" beating but got much worse obviously. Why is it so unreasonable (and stupid according to some) for Zimmerman to have been in fear for his life?

Look, heres the issue. If you are going to be a self declared neighborhood crime watcher and if you`re going to do more than just watch, then you had better be ready for a confrontation or 2. Knowing that and knowing you are carrying a loaded gun makes you either crazy or stupid, not brave.If he feared for his life he put himself into that situation. I think he should have thought out what he was doing before he did it seeing he has a responsibility as a gun owner to be careful who he follows or confronts. Of the 2 people involved , treyvon and george , im guessing the guy with the gun is psychologically the more confident heading into a fight then the kid who only has his hands.

Everything you say is true.But it doesn't change the fact that he could have shot Trayvon in self defense. No matter how the situation started, it quite possibly ended with him fearing for his life and shooting Trayvon.If there is a crime for being stupid, convict Zim. If there is a crime for irresponsibility while carrying a loaded gun, then sure, he could be guilty of that. False bravado, convict him. But I'm not sure he should be convicted of murder.

Ufortunately this isnt just someone being stupid without serious consequences, this kind of stupid cost a lot of people a lot of pain, life is precious and for someone to take it because hes stupid is a crime in of itself.

 

[Witz]

Discovery: DeeDee's (Trayvon's Girlfriend) Full Statement to the State Attorney

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfVTM8sqz4k

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/19/us/trayvon-martins-friend-tells-what-she-heard-on-phone.html?_r=1

A girl who talked on the phone with Trayvon Martin on the night of Feb. 26 has told a state prosecutor that she heard rising fear in Mr. Martin’s voice that peaked with words like “get off, get off,” right before she lost contact with him and he was shot to death.

In the sworn interview recorded on April 2, which runs more than 22 minutes, the unidentified 16-year-old said Mr. Martin described a man who was “crazy and creepy” and on the phone, watching him from a vehicle before he started to follow him on foot.

A sense of urgency grew. Mr. Martin alerted the girl to the fact that Mr. Zimmerman “was getting close to him.” She strongly urged him to run, but she could tell he did not because he was out of breath and tired, and kept saying he was close to the town house where he was a guest.

The girlfriend has already modified her story:

Regarding Mad Sweeney's comments on the girlfriends statements about when she was on the call with Martin (since I didn't recall there being anything that indicated Zimmerman initiated the altercation - if anything, it showed Martin speaking first to Zimmerman). This was discussed at length earlier in the thread. It now looks like her recollection has been expanded - initially back in March, she had stated the following:

She told attorneys she then heard the 17-year-old ask "What are you following me for?"

Then a man, presumably Zimmerman, replied: "What are you doing around here?"

The girl said Trayvon must have been pushed because his headset fell off and the phone call ended.

March 20, 2012 Online StoryABC News Story

As of a couple of weeks ago (on 05/18/2012 to be specific with the first issuance of this information) , the following has been added to her accounting of the phone conversation:

She then heard Martin say, "What are you following me for?" followed by a man's voice responding, "What are you doing around here?" She said that she heard the sound of pushing, and then heard Martin say what sounded like, "get off, get off," and the call ended.

May 18, 2012 Online StoryThis is pretty substantial, no? If Martin did make those comments, it would look like Zimmerman engaged Martin. My only concern is why is this only coming out now (I don't recall these specific comments being discussed earlier but maybe I missed it)? Why didn't the girlfriend share that piece of specific information when she was telling the world her story back in March? She shared this information with the state prosector on 04/02/2012 (according to the story) - weeks after she shared her final conversation with Martin to the press/world.

The conspiracy theorists would say that the last part was added to bolster the case against Zimmerman (since at that time Zimmerman had not yet been arrested). Not really sure what to make of this.

 

[kutta]

A question for the "pro-Trayvon" folks. What would Trayvon have had to do for you to think Zim shot him in self defense.I think we can all agree to the following:1. Something happened before a fight - we are not sure exactly who stalked whom, or exactly what happened. For the sake of this question, let's not worry about that.2. There was a fight3. At one point in the fight, Trayvon was on top of Zim (I think this is agreed upon by most people).4. Zim had bruising on his face (maybe a broken nose, but I'm not totally sure about that) and cuts on the back of his head.Given the scenario above and looking at 2, 3, and 4, if you agree with that, then is there ANYTHING that could have happened where you would say that Zim was justified in shooting him?For example:1. What if Zim's head was completely cracked open and he was losing consciousness? 2. What if his teeth were knocked out?3. What if he was being strangled with two hands around his throat?But I'm really asking for you to tell me what it would take for you to say, "OK, Zim was justified in shooting him."

me personally, it would take treyvon to have a weapon other than his hands.

I bet Ronald Poppo wished he would have been packing a gun when Rudy Eugene started beating on him.

Im sure, seeing biting is considered mayhem - the crime of willfully inflicting a bodily injury on another so as to make the victim less capable of self-defense or, under modern statutes, so as to cripple or mutilate the victim.

Well it started out as a "simple" beating but got much worse obviously. Why is it so unreasonable (and stupid according to some) for Zimmerman to have been in fear for his life?

Look, heres the issue. If you are going to be a self declared neighborhood crime watcher and if you`re going to do more than just watch, then you had better be ready for a confrontation or 2. Knowing that and knowing you are carrying a loaded gun makes you either crazy or stupid, not brave.If he feared for his life he put himself into that situation. I think he should have thought out what he was doing before he did it seeing he has a responsibility as a gun owner to be careful who he follows or confronts. Of the 2 people involved , treyvon and george , im guessing the guy with the gun is psychologically the more confident heading into a fight then the kid who only has his hands.

Everything you say is true.But it doesn't change the fact that he could have shot Trayvon in self defense. No matter how the situation started, it quite possibly ended with him fearing for his life and shooting Trayvon.If there is a crime for being stupid, convict Zim. If there is a crime for irresponsibility while carrying a loaded gun, then sure, he could be guilty of that. False bravado, convict him. But I'm not sure he should be convicted of murder.

Ufortunately this isnt just someone being stupid without serious consequences, this kind of stupid cost a lot of people a lot of pain, life is precious and for someone to take it because hes stupid is a crime in of itself.

I agree 100%. And if we could convict him of being stupid, we should. But again, I don't think stupid = murder.

 

[pittstownkiller]

I agree with Jon here, there is no way you start a fight with a gun in your pocket. I think Zimmerman would draw his weapon on Martin first and tell him to freeze; unless someone really thinks he just sneaked up and shot him.

 

[squistion]

I agree with Jon here, there is no way you start a fight with a gun in your pocket. I think Zimmerman would draw his weapon on Martin first and tell him to freeze; unless someone really thinks he just sneaked up and shot him.

Why not? If you got a gun, you pretty well know that you will always win the fight, even if it starts out bad. (unless, of course, they have a gun too). Arguably, it might cause you to confront someone you normally wouldn't if you were unarmed.Sorry, but it is not All bets are off that he started the fight, because he was carrrying a gun.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I agree with Jon here, there is no way you start a fight with a gun in your pocket. I think Zimmerman would draw his weapon on Martin first and tell him to freeze; unless someone really thinks he just sneaked up and shot him.

Why not? If you got a gun, you pretty well know that you will always win the fight, even if it starts out bad. (unless, of course, they have a gun too). Arguably, it might cause you to confront someone you normally wouldn't if you were unarmed.Sorry, but it is not All bets are off that he started the fight, because he was carrrying a gun.

Yep, it emboldens many people.

 

[pittstownkiller]

I agree with Jon here, there is no way you start a fight with a gun in your pocket. I think Zimmerman would draw his weapon on Martin first and tell him to freeze; unless someone really thinks he just sneaked up and shot him.

Why not? If you got a gun, you pretty well know that you will always win the fight, even if it starts out bad. (unless, of course, they have a gun too). Arguably, it might cause you to confront someone you normally wouldn't if you were unarmed.Sorry, but it is not All bets are off that he started the fight, because he was carrrying a gun.

Yep, it emboldens many people.

I didn't say all bets are off, just that I find it improbable. How many people, BST, are you seeing emboldened to getting into a fistfight when they are packing; c'mon, lets keep it real. I will give you that it makes perfect sense to me that he got out of the car and followed Martin to see where he went because he wasn't fearful, because of the gun he was carrying but I think he draws that weapon first before he would push Martin. I also don't see how he has his weapon drawn and not hit Martin in the hands or arms with the bullet unless he is inside Martin's wingspan (or so far away that he shot Martin without being spotted).

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I agree with Jon here, there is no way you start a fight with a gun in your pocket. I think Zimmerman would draw his weapon on Martin first and tell him to freeze; unless someone really thinks he just sneaked up and shot him.

Why not? If you got a gun, you pretty well know that you will always win the fight, even if it starts out bad. (unless, of course, they have a gun too). Arguably, it might cause you to confront someone you normally wouldn't if you were unarmed.Sorry, but it is not All bets are off that he started the fight, because he was carrrying a gun.

Yep, it emboldens many people.

I didn't say all bets are off, just that I find it improbable. How many people, BST, are you seeing emboldened to getting into a fistfight when they are packing; c'mon, lets keep it real. I will give you that it makes perfect sense to me that he got out of the car and followed Martin to see where he went because he wasn't fearful, because of the gun he was carrying but I think he draws that weapon first before he would push Martin. I also don't see how he has his weapon drawn and not hit Martin in the hands or arms with the bullet unless he is inside Martin's wingspan (or so far away that he shot Martin without being spotted).

I posted this in a convo above...Look, heres the issue. If you are going to be a self declared neighborhood crime watcher and if you`re going to do more than just watch, then you had better be ready for a confrontation or 2. Knowing that and knowing you are carrying a loaded gun makes you either crazy or stupid, not brave.If he feared for his life he put himself into that situation. I think he should have thought out what he was doing before he did it seeing he has a responsibility as a gun owner to be careful who he follows or confronts. Of the 2 people involved , treyvon and george , im guessing the guy with the gun is psychologically the more confident heading into a fight then the kid who only has his hands.

 

[mad sweeney]

I agree with Jon here, there is no way you start a fight with a gun in your pocket. I think Zimmerman would draw his weapon on Martin first and tell him to freeze; unless someone really thinks he just sneaked up and shot him.

It's the worst logic I think I've ever seen in the FFA.

 

[mad sweeney]

I agree with Jon here, there is no way you start a fight with a gun in your pocket. I think Zimmerman would draw his weapon on Martin first and tell him to freeze; unless someone really thinks he just sneaked up and shot him.

Why not? If you got a gun, you pretty well know that you will always win the fight, even if it starts out bad. (unless, of course, they have a gun too). Arguably, it might cause you to confront someone you normally wouldn't if you were unarmed.Sorry, but it is not All bets are off that he started the fight, because he was carrrying a gun.

Yep, it emboldens many people.

I didn't say all bets are off, just that I find it improbable. How many people, BST, are you seeing emboldened to getting into a fistfight when they are packing; c'mon, lets keep it real. I will give you that it makes perfect sense to me that he got out of the car and followed Martin to see where he went because he wasn't fearful, because of the gun he was carrying but I think he draws that weapon first before he would push Martin. I also don't see how he has his weapon drawn and not hit Martin in the hands or arms with the bullet unless he is inside Martin's wingspan (or so far away that he shot Martin without being spotted).

No way=improbable?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

My guess is treyvon was as scared before the fight as zimmerman became during the fight.

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Good question. Perhaps he didn't have the opportunity.

The one time I actually feared for my life enough to run was when I was about 13 or so and sitting on a tree stump at a park across the street from the house where I grew up. A group of three men pulled up in a large pickup truck and I heard the driver say clearly, though under his breath, to the two passengers "let's pick him up." Then one of the men started speaking in broken English asking for what sounded like directions while motioning me to come toward the vehicle. I immediately bolted across the park and into some bunny hills where friends and I used to ride bikes and build forts. They had no chance to catch me only because I felt that I could get to a place that I knew like the back of my hand, was impossible to drive into and because I was fast as ####. Yet almost instinctively (some might say stupidly) I didn't run the thirty or so yards to my front door.

Why wouldn't I run right to my door or through the gate to the back yard, which was even closer, and instead run about a quarter of a mile to a place that was totally isolated? When I think back on this encounter I've come to believe that my response was a gut response and my instincts told me these guys were up to no good from the second that truck stopped in the middle of the road. In a split second I had to decide what they might be up to and, if it was no good, did I want them to know where I lived. The decision was instant; something just didn't feel right. Bunny hills here I come.

My guess would be that if Martin was afraid of something he saw in Zimmerman he had to make a similar type of split second decision. Of course I had the advantage of knowing my neighborhood well. Trayvon was obviously at a disadvantage to Zimmerman in that regard.

Should have doubled back and confronted them.. Asked them if they had a problem..

You're making my point for me. Teenage boys aren't exactly paragons of sound decision making. Even if Trayvon did double back and confront Zimmerman—which there is no evidence of—so what? It was up to the adult in the situation to act in a responsible and rational manner. The problem is Zimmerman wasn't capable of that.

Your anecdote proves nothing.. His GF says he was going home even though someone was following him.. Sorry, all that typing for nothing..

Your attempt at a bon mot (or two) proved you admit that you have no idea what did happen between those two. Stop pretending like you do, or that who struck the first blow even matters.It's been repeated ad nauseum that Martin ran from Zimmerman, starting with Zimmerman's statement to the 911 operator. Why do you think that was? Type as much as you need to.

Your anecdote sounded like an excuse for why Trayvon wouldn't be home yet by suggesting he wasn't going to lead Zimmerman to his home. Tray's GF says he was going home even with Zimmerman following him.. Seems like a dead end for you on that argument..I've always admitted I don't know what happened, all of my posts are prefaced with "If we go by <insert name>'s story, then yadda yadda".. The person that struck the first blow does matter.. It shows the initiation of physical aggression.

How does what Trayvon's girlfriend told him to do have anything to do with what actually happened? Did he respond in the affirmative? The logical leaps in this thread are why I stayed away for such a long time. Help restore my faith, Carolina.No.

The way I understood what she was saying was that Trey said he was going home, but he wasn't going to run because he was tired and out of breath, so he was just gonna walk fast because he was almost there.. Listen to it yourself and see if you disagree..

 

[Charlie Frown]

A question for the "pro-Trayvon" folks. What would Trayvon have had to do for you to think Zim shot him in self defense.I think we can all agree to the following:1. Something happened before a fight - we are not sure exactly who stalked whom, or exactly what happened. For the sake of this question, let's not worry about that.2. There was a fight3. At one point in the fight, Trayvon was on top of Zim (I think this is agreed upon by most people).4. Zim had bruising on his face (maybe a broken nose, but I'm not totally sure about that) and cuts on the back of his head.Given the scenario above and looking at 2, 3, and 4, if you agree with that, then is there ANYTHING that could have happened where you would say that Zim was justified in shooting him?For example:1. What if Zim's head was completely cracked open and he was losing consciousness? 2. What if his teeth were knocked out?3. What if he was being strangled with two hands around his throat?But I'm really asking for you to tell me what it would take for you to say, "OK, Zim was justified in shooting him."

me personally, it would take treyvon to have a weapon other than his hands.

I bet Ronald Poppo wished he would have been packing a gun when Rudy Eugene started beating on him.

Im sure, seeing biting is considered mayhem - the crime of willfully inflicting a bodily injury on another so as to make the victim less capable of self-defense or, under modern statutes, so as to cripple or mutilate the victim.

Well it started out as a "simple" beating but got much worse obviously. Why is it so unreasonable (and stupid according to some) for Zimmerman to have been in fear for his life?

Look, heres the issue. If you are going to be a self declared neighborhood crime watcher and if you`re going to do more than just watch, then you had better be ready for a confrontation or 2. Knowing that and knowing you are carrying a loaded gun makes you either crazy or stupid, not brave.If he feared for his life he put himself into that situation. I think he should have thought out what he was doing before he did it seeing he has a responsibility as a gun owner to be careful who he follows or confronts. Of the 2 people involved , treyvon and george , im guessing the guy with the gun is psychologically the more confident heading into a fight then the kid who only has his hands.

Everything you say is true.But it doesn't change the fact that he could have shot Trayvon in self defense. No matter how the situation started, it quite possibly ended with him fearing for his life and shooting Trayvon.If there is a crime for being stupid, convict Zim. If there is a crime for irresponsibility while carrying a loaded gun, then sure, he could be guilty of that. False bravado, convict him. But I'm not sure he should be convicted of murder.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I agree with Jon here, there is no way you start a fight with a gun in your pocket. I think Zimmerman would draw his weapon on Martin first and tell him to freeze; unless someone really thinks he just sneaked up and shot him.

Why not? If you got a gun, you pretty well know that you will always win the fight, even if it starts out bad. (unless, of course, they have a gun too). Arguably, it might cause you to confront someone you normally wouldn't if you were unarmed.Sorry, but it is not All bets are off that he started the fight, because he was carrrying a gun.

Yep, it emboldens many people.

I didn't say all bets are off, just that I find it improbable. How many people, BST, are you seeing emboldened to getting into a fistfight when they are packing; c'mon, lets keep it real. I will give you that it makes perfect sense to me that he got out of the car and followed Martin to see where he went because he wasn't fearful, because of the gun he was carrying but I think he draws that weapon first before he would push Martin. I also don't see how he has his weapon drawn and not hit Martin in the hands or arms with the bullet unless he is inside Martin's wingspan (or so far away that he shot Martin without being spotted).

I posted this in a convo above...Look, heres the issue. If you are going to be a self declared neighborhood crime watcher and if you`re going to do more than just watch, then you had better be ready for a confrontation or 2. Knowing that and knowing you are carrying a loaded gun makes you either crazy or stupid, not brave.If he feared for his life he put himself into that situation. I think he should have thought out what he was doing before he did it seeing he has a responsibility as a gun owner to be careful who he follows or confronts. Of the 2 people involved , treyvon and george , im guessing the guy with the gun is psychologically the more confident heading into a fight then the kid who only has his hands.

Minor detail I know, but he wasn't "self declared", He was asked to take the position of captain of the neighborhood watch buy his Homeowners association..

 

[Neofight]

Why the heck didn't he just go home then?

Good question. Perhaps he didn't have the opportunity.

The one time I actually feared for my life enough to run was when I was about 13 or so and sitting on a tree stump at a park across the street from the house where I grew up. A group of three men pulled up in a large pickup truck and I heard the driver say clearly, though under his breath, to the two passengers "let's pick him up." Then one of the men started speaking in broken English asking for what sounded like directions while motioning me to come toward the vehicle. I immediately bolted across the park and into some bunny hills where friends and I used to ride bikes and build forts. They had no chance to catch me only because I felt that I could get to a place that I knew like the back of my hand, was impossible to drive into and because I was fast as ####. Yet almost instinctively (some might say stupidly) I didn't run the thirty or so yards to my front door.

Why wouldn't I run right to my door or through the gate to the back yard, which was even closer, and instead run about a quarter of a mile to a place that was totally isolated? When I think back on this encounter I've come to believe that my response was a gut response and my instincts told me these guys were up to no good from the second that truck stopped in the middle of the road. In a split second I had to decide what they might be up to and, if it was no good, did I want them to know where I lived. The decision was instant; something just didn't feel right. Bunny hills here I come.

My guess would be that if Martin was afraid of something he saw in Zimmerman he had to make a similar type of split second decision. Of course I had the advantage of knowing my neighborhood well. Trayvon was obviously at a disadvantage to Zimmerman in that regard.

Should have doubled back and confronted them.. Asked them if they had a problem..

You're making my point for me. Teenage boys aren't exactly paragons of sound decision making. Even if Trayvon did double back and confront Zimmerman—which there is no evidence of—so what? It was up to the adult in the situation to act in a responsible and rational manner. The problem is Zimmerman wasn't capable of that.

Your anecdote proves nothing.. His GF says he was going home even though someone was following him.. Sorry, all that typing for nothing..

Your attempt at a bon mot (or two) proved you admit that you have no idea what did happen between those two. Stop pretending like you do, or that who struck the first blow even matters.It's been repeated ad nauseum that Martin ran from Zimmerman, starting with Zimmerman's statement to the 911 operator. Why do you think that was? Type as much as you need to.

Your anecdote sounded like an excuse for why Trayvon wouldn't be home yet by suggesting he wasn't going to lead Zimmerman to his home. Tray's GF says he was going home even with Zimmerman following him.. Seems like a dead end for you on that argument..I've always admitted I don't know what happened, all of my posts are prefaced with "If we go by <insert name>'s story, then yadda yadda".. The person that struck the first blow does matter.. It shows the initiation of physical aggression.

How does what Trayvon's girlfriend told him to do have anything to do with what actually happened? Did he respond in the affirmative? The logical leaps in this thread are why I stayed away for such a long time. Help restore my faith, Carolina.No.

The way I understood what she was saying was that Trey said he was going home, but he wasn't going to run because he was tired and out of breath, so he was just gonna walk fast because he was almost there.. Listen to it yourself and see if you disagree..

Really? That's the way you understood her comment telling him to run fast and him saying he wasn't going to run but he would walk? I've read the conversation with the cop; it doesn't read like you say it does. She doesn't claim he said that.