Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (3 Viewers)

[Carolina Hustler]

Was the fight on the grass or concrete? Body in the grass.

Fight was on grass then concrete, then grass again if you listen to the lady from yesterday (who heard shoes on concrete, and on ground), or John this morning.. Or Zimmermans statement..

 

[Jackstraw]

It sure looks like he will be acquitted (outside chance of mansalughter) .... so if he is acquitted, will there be riots? will the riots be worse than Rodney King?

That is the million dollar question.

And it is a shame we always come to this. Here we are in 2013 a black president in his second term....and this is crap we are still worrying about.

A bunch of low life thugs (black and white mind you) using a trial as an excuse to go out and loot and burn their own neighborhoods down. I can assure you all those rioting animals are not concerned with Trayvon Martin's death.

It is merely an excuse to be violent.

Sad. But again...not surprising.

Normal people do not do these things. The animals of our society (cough Aaron Hernandez..cough) resort to violence to express their discontent or anger with a situation.

Dehumanization (or dehumanisation) describes the denial of “humanness” to others and is theorized to take on two forms: animalistic dehumanization, which is employed on a largely intergroup basis, and mechanistic dehumanization, which is employed on a largely interpersonal basis.[1] Dehumanization can occur discursively (e.g., idiomatic language that likens certain human beings to non-human animals, verbal abuse, erasing one's voice from discourse), symbolically (e.g., imagery), or physically (e.g., chattel slavery, physical abuse, refusing eye contact). Dehumanization often ignores the target's individuality (i.e., the creative and interesting aspects of his or her personality) and prevents one from showing compassion towards stigmatized groups.[

 

[Mark Davis]

It sure looks like he will be acquitted (outside chance of mansalughter) .... so if he is acquitted, will there be riots? will the riots be worse than Rodney King?

Hope not but the State of Florida I think made this worse by overcharging this case. No way this is a Murder 2 given the statutes. The original decision not to prosecute was valid and the racial sensitivity of the case when the media got involved made the State charge him due to the outcry. Had they simply stated there was not enough evidence to charge him there would have been outcry but I don't think it would have been as bad as it will be when Zimmerman walks. The reason is simply this trial kept the story alive in the media for passions to be flamed with no real chance at a conviction.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

It sure looks like he will be acquitted (outside chance of mansalughter) .... so if he is acquitted, will there be riots? will the riots be worse than Rodney King?

Hope not but the State of Florida I think made this worse by overcharging this case. No way this is a Murder 2 given the statutes. The original decision not to prosecute was valid and the racial sensitivity of the case when the media got involved made the State charge him due to the outcry. Had they simply stated there was not enough evidence to charge him there would have been outcry but I don't think it would have been as bad as it will be when Zimmerman walks. The reason is simply this trial kept the story alive in the media for passions to be flamed with no real chance at a conviction.

I think the flame has definitely died down a bit.. I think as far as public opinion/rioting goes, the way this case is currently being handled is better..

 

[Christo]

Zimmerman Trial Counsel Botches Social Media Evidence on National TVIf you are trial counsel presenting, for example, DNA or scientific accident reconstruction evidence, you would be sure to have a good command of such evidence. Not that a PhD in such subjects is required, but a competent understanding from at least a layman’s perspective would enable an effective direct or cross-examination. Nothing more than basic trial preparation.

Unfortunately, the prosecution in the Zimmerman trial did not meet this standard. Yesterday, while questioning key witness Jenna Lauer, prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda lugged his laptop up to the witness stand clumsily poked around Lauer‘s Twitter account. He sought to paint Lauer as a Twitter follower of Robert Zimmerman, the defendant‘s brother, thus suggesting bias. Unfortunately, de la Rionda lacked a general command of how Twitter worked, including a basic understanding of a follower versus a followee on Twitter and Lauer was able to get away with denying she was following Robert Zimmerman. (Video of this trial exchange here – at the 8:20 mark).

In truth, Lauer was in fact following Robert Zimmerman and, in an apparent recognition that she may have committed perjury, deleted her Twitter account shortly after her testimony. Below is a screenshot establishing who Lauer was following, obtained from the silent follow feature of X1 Social Discovery, which collected and preserved all tweets and other publically available account information only hours before Lauer deleted the account from Twitter. This evidence clearly reflects that George Zimmerman’s brother was in fact followed by the witness.

By now it should be obvious to every trial lawyer that utilizing best practice tools that not only collect and preserve this key social media evidence in a silent and defensible manner but also enable the presentation of such key social media evidence at trial — without having to share your laptop with the witness out of the view of the jury — is required. As attorney John Browning, a partner at Lewis Brisbois, pointed out earlier on this blog, any attorney who does not leverage the mountains of social media evidence available in nearly all cases may be violating their ethical duty of competence.

I don’t know what the local rules are for the Zimmerman courtroom, but the above screenshot from X1 Social Discovery would have made an effective visual. Evidence on social media accounts establishing that a party or witness has friended or is following a particular party is routinely used to establish bias establish connections to our knowledge of that person or subject matter. There are mountains of clues and subtle inferences that can be derived from such information with the right tools and requisite degree of understanding of social media, and the attorneys and investigators who have the competency to leverage this information gain the upper hand.

And as it turns out, social media evidence is relevant to the testimony of the two most important witnesses in the Zimmerman case thus far. Travon Martin’s friend and “star” prosecution witness Rachel Jeantel apparently deleted portions of her twitter account in the past few days to allegedly cover-up incriminating and off color tweets. The lesson here is that social media evidence is not only relevant to the direct parties to a litigation but also key witnesses as well as jurors.

http://blog.x1discovery.com/2013/06/28/zimmerman-trial-counsel-botches-social-media-evidence-on-national-tv/?utm_source=buffer&utm_campaign=Buffer&utm_content=bufferf6004&utm_medium=linkedin

 

[kentric]

The Prosecuting Attorney on now (the younger one) sounds like some movie actor. Not sure which one though. Guy from SNL maybe.

The drama queen from the opening statement?

Didn't see the opening statements for the Prosecution. He just interviewed the policeman and woman. Mid-30s, dark hair and tall.

 

[Gawain]

It sure looks like he will be acquitted (outside chance of mansalughter) .... so if he is acquitted, will there be riots? will the riots be worse than Rodney King?

Hope not but the State of Florida I think made this worse by overcharging this case. No way this is a Murder 2 given the statutes. The original decision not to prosecute was valid and the racial sensitivity of the case when the media got involved made the State charge him due to the outcry. Had they simply stated there was not enough evidence to charge him there would have been outcry but I don't think it would have been as bad as it will be when Zimmerman walks. The reason is simply this trial kept the story alive in the media for passions to be flamed with no real chance at a conviction.

I think the flame has definitely died down a bit.. I think as far as public opinion/rioting goes, the way this case is currently being handled is better..

Except most mass media outlets have given us a week of "Zimmerman's going down, Prosecution rocks!!!" If the case had just petered out there would have been no moment that could serve as a catalyst. Even an announcement the State wasn't going to prosecute won't draw the attention that the jury returning with a verdict will. If Zimmerman isn't found guilty of anything you'll have a large group of people who honestly thought the State had proved his guilt and this white jury found guy not guilty.

 

[Joe McGee]

Zimmerman Trial Counsel Botches Social Media Evidence on National TVIf you are trial counsel presenting, for example, DNA or scientific accident reconstruction evidence, you would be sure to have a good command of such evidence. Not that a PhD in such subjects is required, but a competent understanding from at least a layman’s perspective would enable an effective direct or cross-examination. Nothing more than basic trial preparation.

Unfortunately, the prosecution in the Zimmerman trial did not meet this standard. Yesterday, while questioning key witness Jenna Lauer, prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda lugged his laptop up to the witness stand clumsily poked around Lauer‘s Twitter account. He sought to paint Lauer as a Twitter follower of Robert Zimmerman, the defendant‘s brother, thus suggesting bias. Unfortunately, de la Rionda lacked a general command of how Twitter worked, including a basic understanding of a follower versus a followee on Twitter and Lauer was able to get away with denying she was following Robert Zimmerman. (Video of this trial exchange here – at the 8:20 mark).

In truth, Lauer was in fact following Robert Zimmerman and, in an apparent recognition that she may have committed perjury, deleted her Twitter account shortly after her testimony. Below is a screenshot establishing who Lauer was following, obtained from the silent follow feature of X1 Social Discovery, which collected and preserved all tweets and other publically available account information only hours before Lauer deleted the account from Twitter. This evidence clearly reflects that George Zimmerman’s brother was in fact followed by the witness.

By now it should be obvious to every trial lawyer that utilizing best practice tools that not only collect and preserve this key social media evidence in a silent and defensible manner but also enable the presentation of such key social media evidence at trial — without having to share your laptop with the witness out of the view of the jury — is required. As attorney John Browning, a partner at Lewis Brisbois, pointed out earlier on this blog, any attorney who does not leverage the mountains of social media evidence available in nearly all cases may be violating their ethical duty of competence.

I don’t know what the local rules are for the Zimmerman courtroom, but the above screenshot from X1 Social Discovery would have made an effective visual. Evidence on social media accounts establishing that a party or witness has friended or is following a particular party is routinely used to establish bias establish connections to our knowledge of that person or subject matter. There are mountains of clues and subtle inferences that can be derived from such information with the right tools and requisite degree of understanding of social media, and the attorneys and investigators who have the competency to leverage this information gain the upper hand.

And as it turns out, social media evidence is relevant to the testimony of the two most important witnesses in the Zimmerman case thus far. Travon Martin’s friend and “star” prosecution witness Rachel Jeantel apparently deleted portions of her twitter account in the past few days to allegedly cover-up incriminating and off color tweets. The lesson here is that social media evidence is not only relevant to the direct parties to a litigation but also key witnesses as well as jurors.

http://blog.x1discovery.com/2013/06/28/zimmerman-trial-counsel-botches-social-media-evidence-on-national-tv/?utm_source=buffer&utm_campaign=Buffer&utm_content=bufferf6004&utm_medium=linkedin

This really made the prosecutor look clueless. Sanford is a town of roughly 54,00 people. Something tells me they have limited resources to try murder cases.

 

[ATC1]

Defense working in that it could be possible the gun could be exposed during the struggle.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

It sure looks like he will be acquitted (outside chance of mansalughter) .... so if he is acquitted, will there be riots? will the riots be worse than Rodney King?

Hope not but the State of Florida I think made this worse by overcharging this case. No way this is a Murder 2 given the statutes. The original decision not to prosecute was valid and the racial sensitivity of the case when the media got involved made the State charge him due to the outcry. Had they simply stated there was not enough evidence to charge him there would have been outcry but I don't think it would have been as bad as it will be when Zimmerman walks. The reason is simply this trial kept the story alive in the media for passions to be flamed with no real chance at a conviction.

Very good posting. I agree completely.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

It sure looks like he will be acquitted (outside chance of mansalughter) .... so if he is acquitted, will there be riots? will the riots be worse than Rodney King?

Hope not but the State of Florida I think made this worse by overcharging this case. No way this is a Murder 2 given the statutes. The original decision not to prosecute was valid and the racial sensitivity of the case when the media got involved made the State charge him due to the outcry. Had they simply stated there was not enough evidence to charge him there would have been outcry but I don't think it would have been as bad as it will be when Zimmerman walks. The reason is simply this trial kept the story alive in the media for passions to be flamed with no real chance at a conviction.

Very good posting. I agree completely.

I agree that murder 2 was an obvious overcharge. I think manslaughter or negligent homicide (i'm not sure what they call things in Florida) could have been a relatively strong case, despite stand your ground, and if stand your ground allowed those charges to fall by the wayside, it was still worth prosecution to shine light on a potentially bad law.

 

[jamny]

It sure looks like he will be acquitted (outside chance of mansalughter) .... so if he is acquitted, will there be riots? will the riots be worse than Rodney King?

Hope not but the State of Florida I think made this worse by overcharging this case. No way this is a Murder 2 given the statutes. The original decision not to prosecute was valid and the racial sensitivity of the case when the media got involved made the State charge him due to the outcry. Had they simply stated there was not enough evidence to charge him there would have been outcry but I don't think it would have been as bad as it will be when Zimmerman walks. The reason is simply this trial kept the story alive in the media for passions to be flamed with no real chance at a conviction.

Very good posting. I agree completely.

I agree that murder 2 was an obvious overcharge. I think manslaughter or negligent homicide (i'm not sure what they call things in Florida) could have been a relatively strong case, despite stand your ground, and if stand your ground allowed those charges to fall by the wayside, it was still worth prosecution to shine light on a potentially bad law.

good point

 

[Todem]

It sure looks like he will be acquitted (outside chance of mansalughter) .... so if he is acquitted, will there be riots? will the riots be worse than Rodney King?

Hope not but the State of Florida I think made this worse by overcharging this case. No way this is a Murder 2 given the statutes. The original decision not to prosecute was valid and the racial sensitivity of the case when the media got involved made the State charge him due to the outcry. Had they simply stated there was not enough evidence to charge him there would have been outcry but I don't think it would have been as bad as it will be when Zimmerman walks. The reason is simply this trial kept the story alive in the media for passions to be flamed with no real chance at a conviction.

Very good posting. I agree completely.

Yes agreed. They really caved into the mass media pressure and this is a huge problem now in our country and getting worse by the minute with the sheer amount of speed anytime anything goes viral.

We are really a society that has become overloaded with information and completely being de-sensitized by it all. And at the same time the amount of over-reaction to everything is becoming standard. The rush to judgement is insane today as well.

I can only shake my head. Here you would think we can finally get past the racial tension. I mean let's get real here. Minorities have wonderful opporntunies and are regualry taking advantage of this great countries resources to be properous. Yet....here we are worried about a race riot.......again.

We are still in the stone ages despite all the advances we have made in many area's of our society.Both socially, and with our technology and knowledge.

It's frustrating to say the least.

 

[Slapdash]

It sure looks like he will be acquitted (outside chance of mansalughter) .... so if he is acquitted, will there be riots? will the riots be worse than Rodney King?

Hope not but the State of Florida I think made this worse by overcharging this case. No way this is a Murder 2 given the statutes. The original decision not to prosecute was valid and the racial sensitivity of the case when the media got involved made the State charge him due to the outcry. Had they simply stated there was not enough evidence to charge him there would have been outcry but I don't think it would have been as bad as it will be when Zimmerman walks. The reason is simply this trial kept the story alive in the media for passions to be flamed with no real chance at a conviction.

Very good posting. I agree completely.

I agree that murder 2 was an obvious overcharge. I think manslaughter or negligent homicide (i'm not sure what they call things in Florida) could have been a relatively strong case, despite stand your ground, and if stand your ground allowed those charges to fall by the wayside, it was still worth prosecution to shine light on a potentially bad law.

I don't see why they should have brought no charges at all against the guy.

 

[kentric]

Police Officer said that Z told him on the way to the police car that "he called for help but noone answered" in a confused (as in I don't understand why noone helped) way.

Forgot to mention. Liked how the Defense Atty positioned his body during John's testimony to get John's view of howTrayvon was positioned during the fight. Providing visual displays have a greater chance of imprinting the event on the jurists' minds.

 

[Todem]

It sure looks like he will be acquitted (outside chance of mansalughter) .... so if he is acquitted, will there be riots? will the riots be worse than Rodney King?

Hope not but the State of Florida I think made this worse by overcharging this case. No way this is a Murder 2 given the statutes. The original decision not to prosecute was valid and the racial sensitivity of the case when the media got involved made the State charge him due to the outcry. Had they simply stated there was not enough evidence to charge him there would have been outcry but I don't think it would have been as bad as it will be when Zimmerman walks. The reason is simply this trial kept the story alive in the media for passions to be flamed with no real chance at a conviction.

Very good posting. I agree completely.

I agree that murder 2 was an obvious overcharge. I think manslaughter or negligent homicide (i'm not sure what they call things in Florida) could have been a relatively strong case, despite stand your ground, and if stand your ground allowed those charges to fall by the wayside, it was still worth prosecution to shine light on a potentially bad law.

Totally agree. A young man is dead....this could have possibly been prevented. Unfortunately we are never going to know what really happened.

The stand your ground law is full of flaws and needs to be re-evaluated and better defined. It is a major problem and we will not see the last of senseless gun violence because of it.

I don't think Zimmerman wanted to kill a young man that evening. This is a tragedy that our wonderful media took and made into a full on racial murder trial. The state of Florida took the bait hook line and sinker.

Shame on them.

Zimmerman should be charged with some type of negligent manslaughter......but Murder 2?

Come on. Where is our common sense.

 

[Christo]

It sure looks like he will be acquitted (outside chance of mansalughter) .... so if he is acquitted, will there be riots? will the riots be worse than Rodney King?

Hope not but the State of Florida I think made this worse by overcharging this case. No way this is a Murder 2 given the statutes. The original decision not to prosecute was valid and the racial sensitivity of the case when the media got involved made the State charge him due to the outcry. Had they simply stated there was not enough evidence to charge him there would have been outcry but I don't think it would have been as bad as it will be when Zimmerman walks. The reason is simply this trial kept the story alive in the media for passions to be flamed with no real chance at a conviction.

Very good posting. I agree completely.

I agree that murder 2 was an obvious overcharge. I think manslaughter or negligent homicide (i'm not sure what they call things in Florida) could have been a relatively strong case, despite stand your ground, and if stand your ground allowed those charges to fall by the wayside, it was still worth prosecution to shine light on a potentially bad law.

The prosecution represents the State. It's not the prosecution's job to shine the light on a law, it is their job to respect and enforce the law.

 

[Joe McGee]

It's sad no one came out to help or stop this fight. Not exactly Good Samaritans even if they were understandably scared.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

It's sad no one came out to help or stop this fight. Not exactly Good Samaritans even if they were understandably scared.

I wouldn't have left my house to break this up either. Sorry, but that's how people end up dead.

 

[kentric]

It's sad no one came out to help or stop this fight. Not exactly Good Samaritans even if they were understandably scared.

I wouldn't have left my house to break this up either. Sorry, but that's how people end up dead.

+1 That's why we have law enforcement. My kids need their Father. And I should be around too.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

It sure looks like he will be acquitted (outside chance of mansalughter) .... so if he is acquitted, will there be riots? will the riots be worse than Rodney King?

Hope not but the State of Florida I think made this worse by overcharging this case. No way this is a Murder 2 given the statutes. The original decision not to prosecute was valid and the racial sensitivity of the case when the media got involved made the State charge him due to the outcry. Had they simply stated there was not enough evidence to charge him there would have been outcry but I don't think it would have been as bad as it will be when Zimmerman walks. The reason is simply this trial kept the story alive in the media for passions to be flamed with no real chance at a conviction.

Very good posting. I agree completely.

I agree that murder 2 was an obvious overcharge. I think manslaughter or negligent homicide (i'm not sure what they call things in Florida) could have been a relatively strong case, despite stand your ground, and if stand your ground allowed those charges to fall by the wayside, it was still worth prosecution to shine light on a potentially bad law.

The prosecution represents the State. It's not the prosecution's job to shine the light on a law, it is their job to respect and enforce the law.

You're an ornery fellow, aren't you?

I think the prosecution would have been justified in bringing a manslaughter or lesser charge against Zimmerman based on the law and the facts and had a winnable case.

The law being further scrutinized is an incidental benefit of the proper bringing of charges and from a societal standpoint would have made the trial still worth it to the citizens if Florida even if the law and facts showed Zimmerman was not-guilty as presently drafted.

I think going for murder 2 escalates the stakes for everybody and now its a circus.

 

[kentric]

The Prosecuting Attorney on now (the younger one) sounds like some movie actor. Not sure which one though. Guy from SNL maybe.

ETA: Got it. Norm Macdonald

I think this person who posted on Yahoo may be closer to the mark:

Comment From Guest Guest: ] john guy sounds like Kevin Costner in JFK

 

[Slapdash]

I think going for murder 2 escalates the stakes for everybody and now its a circus.

It didn't become a circus because of the murder 2 charge. It became a circus when the media found out there was no charge at all.

 

[Christo]

I think going for murder 2 escalates the stakes for everybody and now its a circus.

It didn't become a circus because of the murder 2 charge. It became a circus when the media found out there was no charge at all.

That's what you get with an uninformed media. The fact that charges aren't immediately filed or arrests aren't immediately made doesn't mean they aren't coming. Prosecutors like all lawyers are officers of the court and have a duty to investigate the facts before bringing charges.

 

[The Commish]

I think going for murder 2 escalates the stakes for everybody and now its a circus.

It didn't become a circus because of the murder 2 charge. It became a circus when the media found out there was no charge at all.

That's what you get with an uninformed media. The fact that charges aren't immediately filed or arrests aren't immediately made doesn't mean they aren't coming. Prosecutors like all lawyers are officers of the court and have a duty to investigate the facts before bringing charges.

You don't say

 

[jamny]

Police Officer said that Z told him on the way to the police car that "he called for help but noone answered" in a confused (as in I don't understand why noone helped) way.

no one

sorry, pet peeve

 

[Christo]

I think going for murder 2 escalates the stakes for everybody and now its a circus.

It didn't become a circus because of the murder 2 charge. It became a circus when the media found out there was no charge at all.

That's what you get with an uninformed media. The fact that charges aren't immediately filed or arrests aren't immediately made doesn't mean they aren't coming. Prosecutors like all lawyers are officers of the court and have a duty to investigate the facts before bringing charges.

You don't say

Apparently, these are facts that are lost on the media.

 

[kentric]

Police Officer said that Z told him on the way to the police car that "he called for help but noone answered" in a confused (as in I don't understand why noone helped) way.

no one

sorry, pet peeve

Your absodutedly corect.

I knew I had it wrong but I'm so used to it being automatically corrected in Word I didn't feel like going back.

 

[jon_mx]

So it is a good thing to destroy a persons life because you want to expose a bad law? Jeez people. Isn't that what elections and debates are for? What a disgusting excuse and an abuse of power.

 

[The Commish]

I think going for murder 2 escalates the stakes for everybody and now its a circus.

It didn't become a circus because of the murder 2 charge. It became a circus when the media found out there was no charge at all.

That's what you get with an uninformed media. The fact that charges aren't immediately filed or arrests aren't immediately made doesn't mean they aren't coming. Prosecutors like all lawyers are officers of the court and have a duty to investigate the facts before bringing charges.

You don't say

Apparently, these are facts that are lost on the media.

And several folks here

 

[jon_mx]

I think going for murder 2 escalates the stakes for everybody and now its a circus.

It didn't become a circus because of the murder 2 charge. It became a circus when the media found out there was no charge at all.

That's what you get with an uninformed media. The fact that charges aren't immediately filed or arrests aren't immediately made doesn't mean they aren't coming. Prosecutors like all lawyers are officers of the court and have a duty to investigate the facts before bringing charges.

These clowns found no new information. The case was originally investigated and the prosecutor correctly declined to prosecute based on the facts. Hopefully that prosecutor is at least vindicated through this politically charged case.

 

[jamny]

So it is a good thing to destroy a persons life because you want to expose a bad law? Jeez people. Isn't that what elections and debates are for? What a disgusting excuse and an abuse of power.

No, I think this could still be manslaughter and if it isn't and a side benefit is a discussion of a potentially bad law, so be it. I think Zimmerman will walk because of stand your ground but I'm not sure if it's justified. I still don't think if you get into a fight you should be able to shoot someone. Where's the line? If someone punches you in the face, you can shoot him? I could see if Trayvon had something like a rock or pipe in his hand but in just a brawl...no.

Now, if it's decided that Trayvon went for Zimmerman's gun, then yes, end of story.

 

[The Commish]

So what does it mean, if anything that this guy was partaking in / practicing MMA three days a week If you guys covered it, I apologize. Been in and out of meetings in the last couple hours.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Police Officer said that Z told him on the way to the police car that "he called for help but noone answered" in a confused (as in I don't understand why noone helped) way.

no onesorry, pet peeve

Your absodutedly corect.I knew I had it wrong but I'm so used to it being automatically corrected in Word I didn't feel like going back.

Intentional or not, funny either way.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

So what does it mean, if anything that this guy was partaking in / practicing MMA three days a week If you guys covered it, I apologize. Been in and out of meetings in the last couple hours.

I practice muay thai 3-4 times per week.

 

[The Commish]

So it is a good thing to destroy a persons life because you want to expose a bad law? Jeez people. Isn't that what elections and debates are for? What a disgusting excuse and an abuse of power.

No, I think this could still be manslaughter and if it isn't and a side benefit is a discussion of a potentially bad law, so be it. I think Zimmerman will walk because of stand your ground but I'm not sure if it's justified. I still don't think if you get into a fight you should be able to shoot someone. Where's the line? If someone punches you in the face, you can shoot him? I could see if Trayvon had something like a rock or pipe in his hand but in just a brawl...no.

Now, if it's decided that Trayvon went for Zimmerman's gun, then yes, end of story.

 

[StrikeS2k]

So what does it mean, if anything that this guy was partaking in / practicing MMA three days a week If you guys covered it, I apologize. Been in and out of meetings in the last couple hours.

He wasn't very good at it.

 

[jon_mx]

It is not manslaughter based on the laws in Florida. It was self-defense. There are already dozens of cases which show how this law works. If you want to live in Florida, don't go around threatening or beating up armed people.

 

[Christo]

I think going for murder 2 escalates the stakes for everybody and now its a circus.

It didn't become a circus because of the murder 2 charge. It became a circus when the media found out there was no charge at all.

That's what you get with an uninformed media. The fact that charges aren't immediately filed or arrests aren't immediately made doesn't mean they aren't coming. Prosecutors like all lawyers are officers of the court and have a duty to investigate the facts before bringing charges.

These clowns found no new information. The case was originally investigated and the prosecutor correctly declined to prosecute based on the facts. Hopefully that prosecutor is at least vindicated through this politically charged case.

There were enough facts to bring some sort of charge. But the murder 2 thing was an over-reach.

 

[The Commish]

So what does it mean, if anything that this guy was partaking in / practicing MMA three days a week If you guys covered it, I apologize. Been in and out of meetings in the last couple hours.

He wasn't very good at it.

Tend to agree here. It's now come to light that the defense is asking us to believe that a guy practicing MMA was in fear for his life in a fist fight so he shot the guy. Is that an unfair characterization?

 

[jon_mx]

Martin seemed to have more actual practice in MMA style fighting.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

So it is a good thing to destroy a persons life because you want to expose a bad law? Jeez people. Isn't that what elections and debates are for? What a disgusting excuse and an abuse of power.

No, I think this could still be manslaughter and if it isn't and a side benefit is a discussion of a potentially bad law, so be it. I think Zimmerman will walk because of stand your ground but I'm not sure if it's justified. I still don't think if you get into a fight you should be able to shoot someone. Where's the line? If someone punches you in the face, you can shoot him? I could see if Trayvon had something like a rock or pipe in his hand but in just a brawl...no.Now, if it's decided that Trayvon went for Zimmerman's gun, then yes, end of story.

...or smashing someone's head with a block of concrete

...or trying to suffocate them

...not giving your victim a path to retreat

...causing great bodily harm causing victim to make screams for help for 40 seconds to a minute straight, as if he felt his life was threatened

But please compare this to "getting punched in the face"

 

[jon_mx]

I think going for murder 2 escalates the stakes for everybody and now its a circus.

It didn't become a circus because of the murder 2 charge. It became a circus when the media found out there was no charge at all.

That's what you get with an uninformed media. The fact that charges aren't immediately filed or arrests aren't immediately made doesn't mean they aren't coming. Prosecutors like all lawyers are officers of the court and have a duty to investigate the facts before bringing charges.

These clowns found no new information. The case was originally investigated and the prosecutor correctly declined to prosecute based on the facts. Hopefully that prosecutor is at least vindicated through this politically charged case.

There were enough facts to bring some sort of charge. But the murder 2 thing was an over-reach.

I don't think based on the evidence in this case a prosecutor would take it to court absent the political pressure. Not good for your conviction record. Too much support for a self-defense claim.

 

[Rayderr]

So what does it mean, if anything that this guy was partaking in / practicing MMA three days a week If you guys covered it, I apologize. Been in and out of meetings in the last couple hours.

I know fat guys who go to the gym 3 days a week. Yet, they don't lose weight. While not the same, back in my pro wrestling days, I know people who trained several days a week but couldn't wrestle worth ####. Ever know anyone taking karate that takes forever to get their yellow belt? How about a person taking music lessons yet still can't hit the right notes?

Just because you're practicing something doesn't mean you're good at it.

 

[jamny]

So it is a good thing to destroy a persons life because you want to expose a bad law? Jeez people. Isn't that what elections and debates are for? What a disgusting excuse and an abuse of power.

No, I think this could still be manslaughter and if it isn't and a side benefit is a discussion of a potentially bad law, so be it. I think Zimmerman will walk because of stand your ground but I'm not sure if it's justified. I still don't think if you get into a fight you should be able to shoot someone. Where's the line? If someone punches you in the face, you can shoot him? I could see if Trayvon had something like a rock or pipe in his hand but in just a brawl...no.Now, if it's decided that Trayvon went for Zimmerman's gun, then yes, end of story.

...or smashing someone's head with a block of concrete

...or trying to suffocate them

...not giving your victim a path to retreat

...causing great bodily harm causing victim to make screams for help for 40 seconds to a minute straight, as if he felt his life was threatened

But please compare this to "getting punched in the face"

I agree that there are many scenarios but the stand your ground rule seems to leave a huge gray area to an interpretation.

And lets not forget that Zimmerman wasn't a completely innocent person walking down the street. He went to confront the possible danger.

 

[StrikeS2k]

So what does it mean, if anything that this guy was partaking in / practicing MMA three days a week If you guys covered it, I apologize. Been in and out of meetings in the last couple hours.

He wasn't very good at it.

Tend to agree here. It's now come to light that the defense is asking us to believe that a guy practicing MMA was in fear for his life in a fist fight so he shot the guy. Is that an unfair characterization?

Yes. I don't recall the testimony indicating how long he had been practicing MMA. Do you? What if it was only a couple of weeks? MMA is a broad term as well. Without more details in to the specifics of his training it's hard to formulate an opinion on whether he was learning anything applicable to an impromptu street fight.

 

[pittstownkiller]

As much as the murder 2 charge was an overreach, and all the political pressure to bring it, I think the biggest tragedy in this case was the President (once again) taking a side by saying that Trayvon could be his son; so much for a fair trial and poisoning the jury pool.

 

[drummer]

I'm done with CNN. They are saying that DiDi held her ground with the defense attorney. Do they not realize that he kept getting her to make an a** out of herself and destroy her credibility with that attitude? He played her like a fiddle. That disrespectful, lying racist nimrod sank the case.

Paula Deen's career is in shambles, but CNN says Rachel Jenteal was "authentic" with her racism. Please.

I can't wait to hear what the jury has to say about her after the trial is over.

Don't confuse CNN with HLN. The fact that HLN stories are tightly integrated into the CNN homepage has really changed my tune about CNN to the point where I want to look for a more reputable news agency that I can go to when I want unbiased news. Now I'm not trying to argue that CNN on TV is unbiased, I haven't watch it since this trial began, I've only seen the atrocity of coverage late night on the HLN channel.

The media is making more of this case than it really is. I don't find this case compelling at all, and don't even care to watch it. The media is full of race baiting and is sensationalizing it ad nauseum. If I wanted to follow shootings involving race, I would just read the LA Times with the Latino vs Black gang shootings.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

So it is a good thing to destroy a persons life because you want to expose a bad law? Jeez people. Isn't that what elections and debates are for? What a disgusting excuse and an abuse of power.

No, I think this could still be manslaughter and if it isn't and a side benefit is a discussion of a potentially bad law, so be it. I think Zimmerman will walk because of stand your ground but I'm not sure if it's justified. I still don't think if you get into a fight you should be able to shoot someone. Where's the line? If someone punches you in the face, you can shoot him? I could see if Trayvon had something like a rock or pipe in his hand but in just a brawl...no.Now, if it's decided that Trayvon went for Zimmerman's gun, then yes, end of story.

...or smashing someone's head with a block of concrete

...or trying to suffocate them

...not giving your victim a path to retreat

...causing great bodily harm causing victim to make screams for help for 40 seconds to a minute straight, as if he felt his life was threatened

But please compare this to "getting punched in the face"

I agree that there are many scenarios but the stand your ground rule seems to leave a huge gray area to an interpretation.

And lets not forget that Zimmerman wasn't a completely innocent person walking down the street. He went to confront the possible danger.

Speculation.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

So at this point, we've established that Martin was on top for a period of time. What does that mean? Do we know if Martin had the gun pulled on him by that time? Had he even seen the gun?

I think what we learn from this is that it's reasonable to believe GZ was in fear for his life. He was being pounded ground and pound style.

Devil's advocate here....what if what this guy saw was Martin's reaction to seeing the gun?

I'll stick to the facts that are known and avoid speculating, as I've done throughout this thread.

The fact here is that there was a period of time where Martin was on top trying to hit Zimmerman. I'm not sure how you get to "fear for his life" from that narrow point in time

I said it's a reasonable conclusion. The term "ground and pound" is a pretty strong term in MMA and suggests someone getting a serious #### kicking. If I were on a jury and was told that a person was getting "ground and pounded" I would believe they were in fear of serious physical harm, including death.

Interesting....fair enough.

Later, prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda asked whether it was possible a police officer could have used the term "ground and pound" before he did.

"It's possible," Good said.

De la Rionda honed in on Good's earlier statement that he couldn't confirm the person on top was hitting the other person.

"Correct," Good said.