For all you Reggie Bush fans (1 Viewer)

[Liquid Tension]

As much as Reggie has been good for the NFL NO he has not and may not be able to deliver the fantasy points we are looking for.

Westbrook has 94 touches and 88 points

Reg. Bush has 103 touches and 45 points

It is pretty clear that almost all of Reggie's yards have come from running outside. He has shown almost no ability to run inside so far.

I am not ready to say he is a bust by any means, but from a fantasy perspective he has been pretty much a waste for this year.

For the record, I traded for the 1st pick in our 9 man keeper league (semi dynasty) as I lost in the SB last year and expected Reggie to be exactly like this in terms of scoring. I was one of the people who shot down all the hype about Reggie. My hope was that he would be really good in the future. He has a lot to get better at to be able to run in the middle. Deuce is excellent at short yardage and as long as he is there Reggie's value takes a hit.

Thoughts?

 

[Gandalf]

As much as Reggie has been good for the NFL NO he has not and may not be able to deliver the fantasy points we are looking for.Westbrook has 94 touches and 88 pointsReg. Bush has 103 touches and 45 pointsIt is pretty clear that almost all of Reggie's yards have come from running outside. He has shown almost no ability to run inside so far.I am not ready to say he is a bust by any means, but from a fantasy perspective he has been pretty much a waste for this year.For the record, I traded for the 1st pick in our 9 man keeper league (semi dynasty) as I lost in the SB last year and expected Reggie to be exactly like this in terms of scoring. I was one of the people who shot down all the hype about Reggie. My hope was that he would be really good in the future. He has a lot to get better at to be able to run in the middle. Deuce is excellent at short yardage and as long as he is there Reggie's value takes a hit.Thoughts?

I agree with you for the most part. I didn't buy into the hype and expected a mediocre year fantasy point wise. That's one reason you see Maroney on my team in the sig below instead of Bush. However, I do think he can develop into more of an inside runner over time. As you mentioned, Buhs's also splitting time with Deuce whose getting more of the inside carries. In a dynasty league it's obviously way too early to give up on him. But I have to imagine those people who were turning down those crazy offers are disappointed. His value might not ever be THAT high again.

 

[jbz]

different offenses and supporting cast. I'm surprised Bush has struggled as much as he has, but I do notice when he's in the game, all eyes are on him. It's crazy how much attention he gets from opposing defenses.

 

[Steve Dallas]

He may have been a disappointment in non-PPR leagues, but he's been great in PPR leagues. Right now he's the 13th ranked RB in my 12 team, PPR, standard scoring league -- a perfect RB2 and a great pickup if you got him in the late 2nd/early 3rd Round.

 

[EBF]

His career isn't exactly over yet. You might want to wait more than six games before you rush to judgment. You know where Westbrook was six games into his career? Riding the pine.

 

[Arm Chair Express]

His career isn't exactly over yet. You might want to wait more than six games before you rush to judgment. You know where Westbrook was six games into his career? Riding the pine.

Anyone drafting him for immediate production was crazy anyway. We all know that NFL defenses are faster, We all know Duece was still there. Give the kid some time to slow his feet down so he can attack the holes instead of running by them. He has said himself that the holes close faster in the NFL, I think he can be great down the road, but right now he has to figure out the speed of the game.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Reggie has done ok running inside, they've just continually drawn up many plays specifically to get him outside.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

The offense runs through Westbrook in Philly. It doesn't run through Bush in NOR... yet. Not a valid comparison IMO.

They sure seem to be setting him up for that. Bush will have established himself as a receiving threat, long before his first start at RB.

 

[JuniorNB]

From a fantasy standpoint, he's been a disappointment. Most league's don't reward for return yards.

Of course, in PPR leagues, he's having a better year, but that's because PPR league's misrepresent a player's value. You're already rewarding a player for the yards he gains with a reception, why would you reward him for the fact that he was tossed the ball? That would be like saying Edge had a good game because he received 36 handoffs Monday night. Disregard the fact that he only gained 55 yards. Anyway, that argument's for another thread.

In keeper league's, Bush will someday reward those who've drafted him, but for this season, his zero touchdowns and limited yardage, are killing those who start the guy.

 

[freelander]

Westbrook 5 years

Bush 6 games

...and anyone who drafted and expected near equal numbers shoudn't be playing FF.

 

[JuniorNB]

Westbrook 5 yearsBush 6 games...and anyone who drafted and expected near equal numbers shoudn't be playing FF.

I tend to agree with you here, but there are a lot of keeper league owners who drafted Bush very early. I'm not sure what they expected, but I think ESPN playing his college highlights every five minutes may have something to do with it.The funny thing is, some guy in my league, drafted Bush at the turn between round one and two. It allowed me to get Portis! The guy has been a quality fantasy owner, even won the league a few times. He drank the Kool-Aid, I guess.

 

[Sidewinder]

... but there are a lot of keeper league owners who drafted Bush very early...

Maybe some keeper league owners don't necessarily draft expecting immediate production ? Just a thought...

 

[aldelgreco]

... but there are a lot of keeper league owners who drafted Bush very early...

Maybe some keeper league owners don't necessarily draft expecting immediate production ? Just a thought...

Bush owner in a redraft and a keeper league here.I took him with the last pick of the second round in my keeper league, and hopefully, I draw a high enough draft order next year to justify retaining him and giving up that late 2nd pick. I think by next year, his IDP will be around 10-15. I don't think he has been a disappointment in either league as an RB2...(esp in my reraft league where I get return yards/TDs) He is an integral part of an offense that will continue to improve, and as they do, he will. Any RB2 that I can consistently count on for 8-10 points a game is no bust IMO.I would rather have him than L Jordan, Who I took with my first round selection.

 

[LHUCKS]

His career isn't exactly over yet. You might want to wait more than six games before you rush to judgment. You know where Westbrook was six games into his career? Riding the pine.

 

[(HULK)]

I took Reggie in the 3rd in a keep 1 league.

My plan was to sock him away until either Duece got injured or for next year.

What are the odds that Duece is gone elsewhere next season? The shared backfield seems to be working out great for them. But, the $$$ tied up at the RB position is probably the highest in the league.

I planned on keeping Reggie for years when I picked him. Now I'm wondering if I'll keep someone else next year instead.

 

[TME]

Reggie has done ok running inside, they've just continually drawn up many plays specifically to get him outside.

This was my take too. When he carries inside, it seems solid. Obviously, he is not breaking anything long off, but the 4 yards are there. The problem is that so many of Reggie's carries are outside runs. It just does not work in the NFL especially when everyone on defense knows they have to keep their contain responsibilities a top priority with Reggie on the field. It does not matter how fast you are until you are into the 2nd level. You still need blocking at the LOS and plays to the outside are only as fast as the guys blocking in front of you. They are almost wasted touches as there has been nothing there, especially the past few weeks. They need to just give him more straight up touches no wider than off-tackle. All the pitch stuff is doing nothing.I also wish they would let him return kicks. It's less dangerous than punts, so why not? You have better blocking on kicks. Unleash the full force...

 

[JuniorNB]

... but there are a lot of keeper league owners who drafted Bush very early...

Maybe some keeper league owners don't necessarily draft expecting immediate production ? Just a thought...

Oops. good point. I meant to say "redraft" leagues.

 

[walkwithme]

Yeah in redrafts that do not have ppr and you took in him in the second round you reached a bit too far. There were plenty of threads justifying taking him in the second round, but it seems he is about a year or two before he gets the majority of the touches with Duece still there. You had to think Duece would be getting hurt not the best strategy to have but I guess a gamble sometimes pays off. Keeper leagues I guess it is still up for debate.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Yeah in redrafts that do not have ppr and you took in him in the second round you reached a bit too far. There were plenty of threads justifying taking him in the second round, but it seems he is about a year or two before he gets the majority of the touches with Duece still there. You had to think Duece would be getting hurt not the best strategy to have but I guess a gamble sometimes pays off. Keeper leagues I guess it is still up for debate.

I just traded Bush away in a keeer league where I drafted him #2 overall. After watching him play, I don't think he will offer great value in non-PPR scoring as long as Deuce is in the picture. And Deuce will be in NO for at least another 2 years barring another injury (which is not out of the question for Deuce). But his current contract would make him very difficult to trade and he's playing well.

 

[BassNBrew]

Westbrook 5 yearsBush 6 games...and anyone who drafted and expected near equal numbers shoudn't be playing FF.

I tend to agree with you here, but there are a lot of keeper league owners who drafted Bush very early. I'm not sure what they expected, but I think ESPN playing his college highlights every five minutes may have something to do with it.The funny thing is, some guy in my league, drafted Bush at the turn between round one and two. It allowed me to get Portis! The guy has been a quality fantasy owner, even won the league a few times. He drank the Kool-Aid, I guess.

I think you're talking about me. Bush is currently ranked as the 23rd RB in my league (.5 ppr, distance TD). I drafted him in the late first expecting Duece's knee/conditioning to degrade later in the year and some long TDs which score a huge bonus. Time will tell, but looks like poor judgement on my part thus far.

 

[nortobc]

Yeah in redrafts that do not have ppr and you took in him in the second round you reached a bit too far. There were plenty of threads justifying taking him in the second round, but it seems he is about a year or two before he gets the majority of the touches with Duece still there. You had to think Duece would be getting hurt not the best strategy to have but I guess a gamble sometimes pays off. Keeper leagues I guess it is still up for debate.

I just traded Bush away in a keeer league where I drafted him #2 overall. After watching him play, I don't think he will offer great value in non-PPR scoring as long as Deuce is in the picture. And Deuce will be in NO for at least another 2 years barring another injury (which is not out of the question for Deuce). But his current contract would make him very difficult to trade and he's playing well.

I wouldn't put much stock into the possibility of Duece leaving New Orleans. An injury would probably be the only way Reggie becomes the every down back. Duece is a Mississippi guy and the Saints have a huge fan base in Mississippi. He is probably the biggest Saints icon to the fans and that includes Joe Horn and Reggie Bush.

 

[TheLastDispatch]

He may have been a disappointment in non-PPR leagues, but he's been great in PPR leagues. Right now he's the 13th ranked RB in my 12 team, PPR, standard scoring league -- a perfect RB2 and a great pickup if you got him in the late 2nd/early 3rd Round.

 

[walkwithme]

I guess some keeper guys are getting rid of him. Depending on who is available and your league rules, and roster I can see trading him away. If you only keep three each year I can see at this point in an non ppr making some moves because your squad has to be bad overall if your RB3 behind a healty Duece is worth keeping.

 

[KoolKat]

He may have been a disappointment in non-PPR leagues, but he's been great in PPR leagues. Right now he's the 13th ranked RB in my 12 team, PPR, standard scoring league -- a perfect RB2 and a great pickup if you got him in the late 2nd/early 3rd Round.

 

[KoolKat]

From a fantasy standpoint, he's been a disappointment. Most league's don't reward for return yards.Of course, in PPR leagues, he's having a better year, but that's because PPR league's misrepresent a player's value. You're already rewarding a player for the yards he gains with a reception, why would you reward him for the fact that he was tossed the ball? That would be like saying Edge had a good game because he received 36 handoffs Monday night. Disregard the fact that he only gained 55 yards. Anyway, that argument's for another thread.In keeper league's, Bush will someday reward those who've drafted him, but for this season, his zero touchdowns and limited yardage, are killing those who start the guy.

There is something to be said for the amount of touches a player gets. Edge may have only had 55 yards, but he did run a bunch of clock for the Cards, and they would have won the game barring that punt return IMO. If a player is durable to get 36 carries or 10-12 catches for a team, that certainly makes them much more valuable in the NFL, and the goal in FF is to emulate the NFL. Also, Some leagues give fractions of points for carries by the RB.

 

[BGP]

Marc Levin would laugh at anyone trying to compare Reggie Bush to Brian Westbrook, for Levin knew even before the season began that Bush is better than Gayle Sanders or Barry Sanders.

 

[Hobbes]

You're right...I don't think that the comparison is close right now:

Brian Westbrook

2002 Philadelphia Eagles 15 games, 46 rushes, 196 Yards...13.07 Yards per game

2002 Philadelphia Eagles 15 games, 9 receptions, 86 Yards...5.73 Yards per game

18.8 combined yards per game, 0 touchdowns. No kick returns. No punt returns. He did have 2 fumbles though.

Reggie Bush

2006 New Orleans Saints 6 games, 65 rushes, 195 Yards...32.50 Yards per game

2006 New Orleans Saints 6 games, 38 receptions, 285 Yards...47.5 Yards per game

80 combined yards per game, plus 161 punt return yards (at a 10.7 average) and a touchdown.

 

[davper]

He may have been a disappointment in non-PPR leagues, but he's been great in PPR leagues. Right now he's the 13th ranked RB in my 12 team, PPR, standard scoring league -- a perfect RB2 and a great pickup if you got him in the late 2nd/early 3rd Round.

Yeap, got him as an RB2 in the second half of round 3. He has 76 points so far, seven more than my RB1.

 

[Liquid Tension]

The offense runs through Westbrook in Philly. It doesn't run through Bush in NOR... yet. Not a valid comparison IMO.They sure seem to be setting him up for that. Bush will have established himself as a receiving threat, long before his first start at RB.

If you read all these boards the comparison was that Bush was a rich man's Westbrook coming in. I didn't agree, but I can promise you I was in the minority back then. All of a sudden all you guys agree Bush has talent, but the people who are saying the plays are drawn up with him going outside are not accurate as he is bouncing things outside and hasn't shown the vision or power to find the holes and get through them on the interior of the line.I still expect him to be valuable (in PPR leagues), but am not sure if he will ever be a great fantasy player. It is only his first year and patience would be advised though.

 

[Liquid Tension]

From a fantasy standpoint, he's been a disappointment. Most league's don't reward for return yards.Of course, in PPR leagues, he's having a better year, but that's because PPR league's misrepresent a player's value. You're already rewarding a player for the yards he gains with a reception, why would you reward him for the fact that he was tossed the ball? That would be like saying Edge had a good game because he received 36 handoffs Monday night. Disregard the fact that he only gained 55 yards. Anyway, that argument's for another thread.In keeper league's, Bush will someday reward those who've drafted him, but for this season, his zero touchdowns and limited yardage, are killing those who start the guy.

There is something to be said for the amount of touches a player gets. Edge may have only had 55 yards, but he did run a bunch of clock for the Cards, and they would have won the game barring that punt return IMO. If a player is durable to get 36 carries or 10-12 catches for a team, that certainly makes them much more valuable in the NFL, and the goal in FF is to emulate the NFL. Also, Some leagues give fractions of points for carries by the RB.

I may be hijacking my own thread, but couldn't a backup or anyone else get those touches if production isn't important? I think giving points for receptions is a poorly conceived concept.

 

[dawgtrails]

From a fantasy standpoint, he's been a disappointment. Most league's don't reward for return yards.Of course, in PPR leagues, he's having a better year, but that's because PPR league's misrepresent a player's value. You're already rewarding a player for the yards he gains with a reception, why would you reward him for the fact that he was tossed the ball? That would be like saying Edge had a good game because he received 36 handoffs Monday night. Disregard the fact that he only gained 55 yards. Anyway, that argument's for another thread.In keeper league's, Bush will someday reward those who've drafted him, but for this season, his zero touchdowns and limited yardage, are killing those who start the guy.

There is something to be said for the amount of touches a player gets. Edge may have only had 55 yards, but he did run a bunch of clock for the Cards, and they would have won the game barring that punt return IMO. If a player is durable to get 36 carries or 10-12 catches for a team, that certainly makes them much more valuable in the NFL, and the goal in FF is to emulate the NFL. Also, Some leagues give fractions of points for carries by the RB.

I may be hijacking my own thread, but couldn't a backup or anyone else get those touches if production isn't important? I think giving points for receptions is a poorly conceived concept.

 

[Billy1x]

As much as Reggie has been good for the NFL NO he has not and may not be able to deliver the fantasy points we are looking for.Westbrook has 94 touches and 88 pointsReg. Bush has 103 touches and 45 pointsIt is pretty clear that almost all of Reggie's yards have come from running outside. He has shown almost no ability to run inside so far.I am not ready to say he is a bust by any means, but from a fantasy perspective he has been pretty much a waste for this year.For the record, I traded for the 1st pick in our 9 man keeper league (semi dynasty) as I lost in the SB last year and expected Reggie to be exactly like this in terms of scoring. I was one of the people who shot down all the hype about Reggie. My hope was that he would be really good in the future. He has a lot to get better at to be able to run in the middle. Deuce is excellent at short yardage and as long as he is there Reggie's value takes a hit.Thoughts?

He's not a Weskbrook. He's a Terri Medcalf as long as McAlister is around. There are a couple of models of players like him that played half back for Joe Gibbs and Don Coryell in there glory year. McAlister would be similar to Chuck Muncie as they are using him now. IMO

 

[Arm Chair Express]

As much as Reggie has been good for the NFL NO he has not and may not be able to deliver the fantasy points we are looking for.Westbrook has 94 touches and 88 pointsReg. Bush has 103 touches and 45 pointsIt is pretty clear that almost all of Reggie's yards have come from running outside. He has shown almost no ability to run inside so far.I am not ready to say he is a bust by any means, but from a fantasy perspective he has been pretty much a waste for this year.For the record, I traded for the 1st pick in our 9 man keeper league (semi dynasty) as I lost in the SB last year and expected Reggie to be exactly like this in terms of scoring. I was one of the people who shot down all the hype about Reggie. My hope was that he would be really good in the future. He has a lot to get better at to be able to run in the middle. Deuce is excellent at short yardage and as long as he is there Reggie's value takes a hit.Thoughts?

I guarentee he's putting up better numbers than Westbrook did in his rookie season. Give the kid a break, let him get used to the speed of the game. If he still lacking next year we can listen to all the comparison complaints. Anyone drafting him expecting him to put up top 5 numbers as a rookie had faulty logic to begin with.

 

[GregR_2]

...It is pretty clear that almost all of Reggie's yards have come from running outside. He has shown almost no ability to run inside so far....

DirectionSplit 	COMP 	ATT 	YDS 	PCT 	TD 	RUSH 	YDS 	AVG 	TD 	REC 	YDS 	AVG 	TDLEFT SIDE 	0 	0 	0 	- 	0 	19 	63 	3.3 	0 	7 	66 	9.4 	0MIDDLE 	   0 	0 	0 	- 	0 	 3 	14 	4.7 	0 	6 	42 	7.0 	0RIGHT SIDE 	0 	0 	0 	- 	0 	20 	59 	3.0 	0 	8 	44 	5.5 	0

"It's pretty clear that almost all of Reggies yards have com from running outside." When 39 of your 42 rushes are outside rushes, I think everyone would have to say that is an accurate statement."He has shown almost no ability to run inside so far." I'm not seeing how you draw that conclusion. Either 3 carries isn't enough to tell if he has ability to run inside or not.... or he's shown the ability since he has a 4.7 ypc.

 

[kevthegrad]

Look all I know is that in my dynasty league, with what we get for passing yards too, Reggie was 1 point behind Deuce in point production before last week.

He will be fine. He will adjust to the speed of the game at this level, and we'll see whether or not he can learn to run inside. Regardless, he's going to get so many catches that he'll still put up nice points in my league.

Do I want to see him run inside? Yes. Do I hope you check out he Sirius Satellite Free preview next week? Yes. Do I feel like a sandwich? Yes.

Thank you.

 

[ericttspikes]

I hope Bush doesn't have a career like Westbrook. He'll be hurt every year.

 

[cr8f]

...

It is pretty clear that almost all of Reggie's yards have come from running outside. He has shown almost no ability to run inside so far.

"It's pretty clear that almost all of Reggies yards have com from running outside." When 39 of your 42 rushes are outside rushes, I think everyone would have to say that is an accurate statement.

"He has shown almost no ability to run inside so far." I'm not seeing how you draw that conclusion. Either 3 carries isn't enough to tell if he has ability to run inside or not.... or he's shown the ability since he has a 4.7 ypc.

Anyone who had that many people keying on him would have similar success. As the Saints improve he will too. If he had the blocking FWP or Tatum had it would be a vastly different story.

 

[slayer666]

His career isn't exactly over yet. You might want to wait more than six games before you rush to judgment. You know where Westbrook was six games into his career? Riding the pine.

Exactly.

 

[montanagold]

So far.... he reminds me of the modern day Eric Metcalf.

MG

 

[Voice Of Reason]

The offense runs through Westbrook in Philly. It doesn't run through Bush in NOR... yet. Not a valid comparison IMO.

 

[kevthegrad]

Reggie has done ok running inside, they've just continually drawn up many plays specifically to get him outside.

This was my take too. When he carries inside, it seems solid. Obviously, he is not breaking anything long off, but the 4 yards are there. The problem is that so many of Reggie's carries are outside runs. It just does not work in the NFL especially when everyone on defense knows they have to keep their contain responsibilities a top priority with Reggie on the field. It does not matter how fast you are until you are into the 2nd level. You still need blocking at the LOS and plays to the outside are only as fast as the guys blocking in front of you. They are almost wasted touches as there has been nothing there, especially the past few weeks. They need to just give him more straight up touches no wider than off-tackle. All the pitch stuff is doing nothing.I also wish they would let him return kicks. It's less dangerous than punts, so why not? You have better blocking on kicks. Unleash the full force...

TME! Beautiful Bobby Eaton! NICE avatar brother!Midnight Express, easily the best tag team of the era.

 

[Billy1x]

So far.... he reminds me of the modern day Eric Metcalf.MG

More like Eric's Dad - Terri except about 20 lbs heavier.Note: Terri was a lot better than Eric and was one of the most dangerouns backs in the league until he went to Canada. He was known as "The Franchise." Tom Landry was so scared of him they refused to kick of to him. He help the record for all purpose yards for several years.