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Foster on pace for 421 carries (1 Viewer)

GregR

Footballguy
Hearing that Arian Foster is on pace for 416 421 carries got me to dig into his numbers a little. This is pretty much just a dump of my thoughts on his situation so far. Nothing that should be earth shattering to anyone.

We're only 3 games in and so it's a small sample to project to a full season. Foster's had a pretty consistent number of carries each game. 26, 28, and 25 carries in the 3 games.

But, the Texans aren't getting the 2nd half rushing yards they have in the past. The Texans scheme involves a lot of sideline to sideline movement on stretch plays, and defensive fronts can often get wore down which opens things up late in the game. The last two years Foster averaged 4.61 ypc with 8 TDs in the 1st half and 4.78 ypc with 18 TDs in the 2nd half.

So far this year his first half ypc is 5.03, with 3 TDs, while his 2nd half ypc is 2.73 with 0 rushing TDs. So he's actually done better in the first half so far, but a big drop off in the 2nd.

A couple of possible factors. One is the strength of the run defenses faced so far. Miami and Jacksonville were #3 and #4 in ypc last year, Denver was 11th. So far this year they rank 2nd, 4th and 24th against the run.

Another is Houston has led all three games this year by pretty big margins, leading to more series with obvious trying to run down the clock, and defenses moving extra defenders up into the box.

Final thing has been the changes along the right side of the Houston line. Winston and Brisiel gone. Texans have been platooning Antoine Caldwell and Ben Jones (rookie center from Georgia) at right guard, and have mostly just gone with Derek Newton at right tackle. The first game against Miami I didn't think there was nearly as much room to run... Dolphins got a lot of penetration which causes problems for any scheme, but especially messes up cut back ability in a zone scheme. The last two games were better for Houston. I don't know that I'd say the right side of the line has been a major weakness though. Not as good as last year so far, but still good enough for the RBs to be productive when the game is still being contested.

Going forward I could see the Texans wanting to lessen his workload some. One consideration though... Tate had a game changing fumble against the Broncos as Houston was moving the ball and burning clock heading towards what would have been a put away score. Instead Denver got the ball and a quick TD and enough time for Peyton to make a run for it.

Some people in here have been over the top about worries of Foster losing the job over fumbling. Tate actually has a lot higher fumble rate than Foster does, and I've pretty much preached moderation on worries about the topic. I would caution viewing the reaction to Tate's fumble with moderation as well. I think we may see an increased work load for Tate and Forsett if Foster's work load keeps up like this. So far Foster has a little over a 3:1 margin, 79 to 25 carries compared to Tate. Tate didn't get back in the game after fumbling against Denver, but I'm pretty sure they'll work him back in for the long haul.

With a number of games coming up that I don't think the Texans will go up so early in, I could see fewer stacked fronts in the 2nd half, so might see that 2nd half ypc come up.

(Edit: Should have known better than to trust media, corrected the 416 number I saw to the correct 421.)

 
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Given the disparity in carries plus Tate's higher propensity for fumbling, I have to question Pasquino on his comment/reasoning for his low(er) dynasty ranking on Foster (6th RB). In his comments section, he states as recently as 8/27/12 that the threat of Tate taking over is real and Houston is moving towards a passing offense. The numbers you give don't seem to support either.

 
One thing that's been very noticeable: the Texans haven't used Foster in the screen/short passing game nearly as much as usual. He's got 8 catches for just 36 yards so far; 4.5 yards/reception is less than half of his career average, and he's also well below his 4+ catches/game of the last two seasons. He'd probably be running less if they could pick up bigger chunks by getting him into space in the passing game. Replace a few of those carries with targets, and his workload may come down to the 20-21 carries/game of 2010 and 2011.

 
As a Foster owner, this was the first thing I noticed. His overall YPC average has substantially dipped (3.5) and his numbers have been largely buoyed by volume. I agree on all your points, HOU has one of the most blatantly obvious and effective game plans in the league. Teams are fully aware that HOU will lean on Foster to close out games. My main concern, is of course a slow down come mid season. I'm not about to say anyone should trade him, cause I'm sure as hell not, but he's touching the ball almost too much. Luckily, Foster draws TEN next week. He should be able to put up stats on half as many carries. :thumbup:

 
If they keep controlling the game and dominating the other team (especially in a weak division) Foster has a good chance for 350+, Tate could see 250+ also pretty disgusting actually...

 
One thing that's been very noticeable: the Texans haven't used Foster in the screen/short passing game nearly as much as usual. He's got 8 catches for just 36 yards so far; 4.5 yards/reception is less than half of his career average, and he's also well below his 4+ catches/game of the last two seasons. He'd probably be running less if they could pick up bigger chunks by getting him into space in the passing game. Replace a few of those carries with targets, and his workload may come down to the 20-21 carries/game of 2010 and 2011.
Very true, it used to be that Foster was the second option in the passing game. That definitely hasn't been the case this year.I don't think I have a very good feel yet for why that is. Could just be that Schaub is finding receivers to throw to and not needing to check down as much. Jean's made a few plays. Martin only has one or two catches I think, but the pair of them are better options than what Houston had in the past.Could also be that Houston is using the RBs more in pass protection, supplementing the new O-linemen, so they aren't making it out on routes as often. I do recall some good blitz pick ups by Foster already this year, but haven't paid attention to how much he's staying in to block. And I don't think they've called as many screens this year as in the past, so play selection could play a role. It just feels like Schaub has generally found someone to throw to and not had to dump the ball off very often.Yeah, basically I'm not sure why it is exactly, but definitely not as active in the passing game this year so far.
 
I agree with the point that he's faced some of the tougher running defenses in the league so far... lets see how the next three weeks play out in terms of his average ypc.

He gets to see the Titans (150.3ypg 29th in the league) the Jets (148.7 28th in the league) and the Packers (140ypg 27th in the league). So 3 of the bottom 5 rushing defenses in the next three weeks? He could go on a pretty wild tear before the bye week with limited carries considering how bad these defenses are. I wouldn't be shocked if he puts up similar overall numbers vs the Titans and the Jets with sub-20 carries. By the same token I wouldn't be shocked to see him put in another 25-30 carries vs GB.

 
As a keeper owner I forward-think a lot. His carries really worry me. His ypc not so much. I wasn't aware how large the 1st vs 2nd half split were, but I have seen him do much better in the 1st half. If Houston can fine tune their late game running, maybe going back to some things that worked in the past (I know, they have a worse offensive line, but it is still very good) then Foster should be back to 4.5+ypc in no time. He'll score around 20 td's and be the #1 rb regardless. However, I'm really hoping his carries drop. While he may sit week 17 or so due to a Texans bye, if he puts in around 370 carries plus a massive workload in the playoffs...well, not good. It's a long season though. As long as he just averages around 21 carries a game, he should still be fine for next year. It is a situation to monitor.

 
On the right side of the line, Kubiak just said they will be working Ryan Harris in with Newton at right tackle. Harris was a training camp cut they picked up from Denver after an injury to Rashad Butler, who competed with Newton for the starting spot.

 
Interesting discussion Greg. Appreciate the insight being a Houston fan and a Foster owner :thumbup:

I really think the 2nd half carries is more a product of the games being out of reach and Defenses stacking the box (as you pointed out) but we shall see. Foster seems to shine when the play action/bootleg is in full effect.

 
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They really need to give Forsett more work when they have a lead to help limit Arian's carries. He looked VERY good in preseason and he's been around long enough to trust in not fumbling the rock. I'd like to see him used in the screen game too. I was more than happy to let D. Ward walk once I saw Houston signed Forsett.

 
rotoworld:

Texans coach Gary Kubiak sounded open Monday to the idea of giving Arian Foster 400 carries this season.

"He can handle it," said Kubiak. "I know that. You never know how the season's going to go." The history of running backs who receive 400 single-season carries is poor to say the least; it's often a career-threatening "accomplishment." Foster's re-draft owners should love this news, but his dynasty owners probably shouldn't. Through four weeks Foster is on pace for 412 carries and 448 all-purpose touches. We'd like to see his receptions rise at the expense of his rushing attempts.

As a keeper league owner, I say YIKES! :shock:

 
rotoworld:Texans coach Gary Kubiak sounded open Monday to the idea of giving Arian Foster 400 carries this season."He can handle it," said Kubiak. "I know that. You never know how the season's going to go." The history of running backs who receive 400 single-season carries is poor to say the least; it's often a career-threatening "accomplishment." Foster's re-draft owners should love this news, but his dynasty owners probably shouldn't. Through four weeks Foster is on pace for 412 carries and 448 all-purpose touches. We'd like to see his receptions rise at the expense of his rushing attempts. As a keeper league owner, I say YIKES! :shock:
I moved Foster for Gronk and a 1st in a TE heavy dynasty league, and if he is going to take 400+ carries, sure 2012 will be spectacular but oh my the shelf life shortens even quicker. I like him at 300-325 carries and Tate spelling him but...I don't believe Kubiak, he is going to want to keep Foster fresh, be interesting the next 3-4 weeks as to the carries Foster truly handles.
 
Anyone know what the context was that drove that response?

A reporter saying, "Hey Coach, Arian is on pace for over 400 carries this year. Do you think that's too much?" Kubiak responding with "He can handle that..." is really just typical coach speak.

This is my last year keeping Foster so I prefer he go out with a bang, but I agree with above that he will better served, even this year only, if he has Tate involved to share some of the load.

 
Good lord, can they please scale back his touches some? As an owner, I have the question how long he'll last touching the ball 30 times a game. Seriously, this may seem like a "good" problem to have, but touching the ball that many times isn't worth the increased propensity to injury. He can still produce on 20 touches.

 
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Good lord, can they please scale back his touches some? As an owner, I have the question how long he'll last touching the ball 30 times a game. Seriously, this may seem like a "good" problem to have, but touching the ball that many times isn't worth the increased propensity to injury. He can still produce on 20 touches.
In fact I think he is better when they go Foster drive 1, drive 2, Tate drive 3
 
Hearing that Arian Foster is on pace for 416 421 carries got me to dig into his numbers a little. This is pretty much just a dump of my thoughts on his situation so far. Nothing that should be earth shattering to anyone.

We're only 3 games in and so it's a small sample to project to a full season. Foster's had a pretty consistent number of carries each game. 26, 28, and 25 carries in the 3 games.

But, the Texans aren't getting the 2nd half rushing yards they have in the past. The Texans scheme involves a lot of sideline to sideline movement on stretch plays, and defensive fronts can often get wore down which opens things up late in the game. The last two years Foster averaged 4.61 ypc with 8 TDs in the 1st half and 4.78 ypc with 18 TDs in the 2nd half.

So far this year his first half ypc is 5.03, with 3 TDs, while his 2nd half ypc is 2.73 with 0 rushing TDs. So he's actually done better in the first half so far, but a big drop off in the 2nd.

A couple of possible factors. One is the strength of the run defenses faced so far. Miami and Jacksonville were #3 and #4 in ypc last year, Denver was 11th. So far this year they rank 2nd, 4th and 24th against the run.

Another is Houston has led all three games this year by pretty big margins, leading to more series with obvious trying to run down the clock, and defenses moving extra defenders up into the box.

Final thing has been the changes along the right side of the Houston line. Winston and Brisiel gone. Texans have been platooning Antoine Caldwell and Ben Jones (rookie center from Georgia) at right guard, and have mostly just gone with Derek Newton at right tackle. The first game against Miami I didn't think there was nearly as much room to run... Dolphins got a lot of penetration which causes problems for any scheme, but especially messes up cut back ability in a zone scheme. The last two games were better for Houston. I don't know that I'd say the right side of the line has been a major weakness though. Not as good as last year so far, but still good enough for the RBs to be productive when the game is still being contested.

Going forward I could see the Texans wanting to lessen his workload some. One consideration though... Tate had a game changing fumble against the Broncos as Houston was moving the ball and burning clock heading towards what would have been a put away score. Instead Denver got the ball and a quick TD and enough time for Peyton to make a run for it.

Some people in here have been over the top about worries of Foster losing the job over fumbling. Tate actually has a lot higher fumble rate than Foster does, and I've pretty much preached moderation on worries about the topic. I would caution viewing the reaction to Tate's fumble with moderation as well. I think we may see an increased work load for Tate and Forsett if Foster's work load keeps up like this. So far Foster has a little over a 3:1 margin, 79 to 25 carries compared to Tate. Tate didn't get back in the game after fumbling against Denver, but I'm pretty sure they'll work him back in for the long haul.

With a number of games coming up that I don't think the Texans will go up so early in, I could see fewer stacked fronts in the 2nd half, so might see that 2nd half ypc come up.

(Edit: Should have known better than to trust media, corrected the 416 number I saw to the correct 421.)
:goodposting: Anything I was gonna add on the topic was added and then multiplied by at least 5.

I would guess that this is a combo of Houston being in pound the ball mode in the second half and the losses on the offensive line. Foster is a stud,I'm not worried.

But, you pointing out hes on pace for 400 carries, thats a big worry long term? We all know how that scenario goes after years like that.

 
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As a Foster owner, this was the first thing I noticed. His overall YPC average has substantially dipped (3.5) and his numbers have been largely buoyed by volume. I agree on all your points, HOU has one of the most blatantly obvious and effective game plans in the league. Teams are fully aware that HOU will lean on Foster to close out games. My main concern, is of course a slow down come mid season. I'm not about to say anyone should trade him, cause I'm sure as hell not, but he's touching the ball almost too much. Luckily, Foster draws TEN next week. He should be able to put up stats on half as many carries. :thumbup:
Hmmm, another idea is maybe teams are also giving Foster the ADP treatment now... wouldn't surprise me
 
Ben tate getting an x-ray on his toe. May not see lesser carries in the shortest terms.
Who is the RB3 there please?Thanks CN
Justin Forsett
WW pick up, has shown some flashes, I realize he is not anything like Foster, but this might be a guy you want to grab as that 24th roster spot at the end of your bench. Foster was an RB3 there at one time. I have always liked Forsett, guy is a bit brittle though. Thanks again CN, good info.
 
Ben tate getting an x-ray on his toe. May not see lesser carries in the shortest terms.
Who is the RB3 there please?Thanks CN
Justin Forsett
WW pick up, has shown some flashes, I realize he is not anything like Foster, but this might be a guy you want to grab as that 24th roster spot at the end of your bench. Foster was an RB3 there at one time. I have always liked Forsett, guy is a bit brittle though. Thanks again CN, good info.
linkagehttp://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Monday-practice/3c189e3c-ee96-44d9-aeb0-652ee5a0ee3eHead Coach Gary Kubiak(on the team’s health) “(RG Antoine) Caldwell has an ankle sprain. He went back on the field the second half. He could have went in, had we got in trouble. I think he’s going to be day-to-day, and we do have an extra day of rest for him this week so I’ll have to let you guys know come Thursday. (SS Quintin) Demps had surgery today, broke his forearm so he’s had two surgeries in a row, back-to-back. We do expect him to come back, don’t quite know how long that will be but he is going to miss some time. That’s where we’re at with him today. (FS Shiloh) Keo banged his shoulder a little bit. He’s fine. He’s back to work today. Ben (Tate)’s got a toe bothering him. He missed practice today, missed our walk through. We’re getting some X-rays on that and we’ll find out where we’re at on Thursday.”
 
Forsett looked very good running in the scheme in the preseason, though it was with the 2nd string offense.

Watching it live, I thought Foster and Tate both did a little bit too much east-west running against Tennessee. Looking forward to watching the TV broadcast to see if that impression holds up.

 

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