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Free Kick after Fair Catching a Kickoff (1 Viewer)

Fullback Fro

Fullback Fro

yesno
After Favre somehow connected on a Hail Mary to Greg Lewis last week giving the Vikes what would become the go ahead touchdown, there were 2 seconds left on the clock.

Following the kickoff a Niner's player signaled fair catch. The kick was a very short, very high kick and was fair caught at the Niner's 38 yard line.

Is is not in the rules that the Niners could've attempted to lineup up for a uncontested kick-off style shot at a field go for the win. I have seen kickers after a 15 yard penalties knock kickoffs through the up-rights. I was just wondering if this should have been they play if legal.

 
Fullback Fro said:
After Favre somehow connected on a Hail Mary to Greg Lewis last week giving the Vikes what would become the go ahead touchdown, there were 2 seconds left on the clock. Following the kickoff a Niner's player signaled fair catch. The kick was a very short, very high kick and was fair caught at the Niner's 38 yard line. Is is not in the rules that the Niners could've attempted to lineup up for a uncontested kick-off style shot at a field go for the win. I have seen kickers after a 15 yard penalties knock kickoffs through the up-rights. I was just wondering if this should have been they play if legal.
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I like it and I agree; if Singletary has a call-in show you should ask him, because that seems like that would have been a great play. Maybe Nedney doesn't have that kind of leg though?
 
Fullback Fro said:
After Favre somehow connected on a Hail Mary to Greg Lewis last week giving the Vikes what would become the go ahead touchdown, there were 2 seconds left on the clock. Following the kickoff a Niner's player signaled fair catch. The kick was a very short, very high kick and was fair caught at the Niner's 38 yard line. Is is not in the rules that the Niners could've attempted to lineup up for a uncontested kick-off style shot at a field go for the win. I have seen kickers after a 15 yard penalties knock kickoffs through the up-rights. I was just wondering if this should have been they play if legal.
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Yes, the Niners could have attempted a kick from that spot. It'd be the equivalent of a 65-yard FG, which is probably too far out for there to be any realistic chance to hit it. After a 15-yard penalty on the kickoff, you're kicking from the 45, a 58-yard FG, which is a much more realistic kick.
 
Yes, you can make a Free Kick after a kickoff -- even if there's no time left on the clock. However, they would not have been able to use a tee, which would have made it much more difficult to make a 72-yard field goal.

 
CalBear said:
Fullback Fro said:
After Favre somehow connected on a Hail Mary to Greg Lewis last week giving the Vikes what would become the go ahead touchdown, there were 2 seconds left on the clock. Following the kickoff a Niner's player signaled fair catch. The kick was a very short, very high kick and was fair caught at the Niner's 38 yard line. Is is not in the rules that the Niners could've attempted to lineup up for a uncontested kick-off style shot at a field go for the win. I have seen kickers after a 15 yard penalties knock kickoffs through the up-rights. I was just wondering if this should have been they play if legal.
Click to expand...
Yes, the Niners could have attempted a kick from that spot. It'd be the equivalent of a 65-yard FG, which is probably too far out for there to be any realistic chance to hit it. After a 15-yard penalty on the kickoff, you're kicking from the 45, a 58-yard FG, which is a much more realistic kick.
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There are several reasons to prefer a fair catch kick to a normal field goal attempt from scrimmage. A fair catch kick is taken from the same yard-line of the catch rather than the usual seven to eight yards back. The defending team must remain 10 yards downfield before the kick. This allows the placekicker a full running start rather than the normal two-step approach, with no concerns about a poor snap from center or a low angle of trajectory that might allow the defense to block the kick
 
CalBear said:
Fullback Fro said:
After Favre somehow connected on a Hail Mary to Greg Lewis last week giving the Vikes what would become the go ahead touchdown, there were 2 seconds left on the clock. Following the kickoff a Niner's player signaled fair catch. The kick was a very short, very high kick and was fair caught at the Niner's 38 yard line. Is is not in the rules that the Niners could've attempted to lineup up for a uncontested kick-off style shot at a field go for the win. I have seen kickers after a 15 yard penalties knock kickoffs through the up-rights. I was just wondering if this should have been they play if legal.
Click to expand...
Yes, the Niners could have attempted a kick from that spot. It'd be the equivalent of a 65-yard FG, which is probably too far out for there to be any realistic chance to hit it. After a 15-yard penalty on the kickoff, you're kicking from the 45, a 58-yard FG, which is a much more realistic kick.
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Seems like Nedney has a better chance of nailing a 73 yard field goal with no defenders in front of him than the Niners scoring on one play from scrimmage from their own 38. Just my opinion.
 
yes, it's a free kick field goal, and you can do it after any fair catch--even if time expires.

but i think it was too far for them to try it. i don't know what their kicker's leg is like, but i don't think there's a kicker in the nfl that could have made that long of a kick. most kicker's are happy to just get it into the end zone from that distance.

better luck with a hail mary, i think.

rackers tried it from the 42 yard line a while back and came up way short, and he has a strong leg.

 
TommyGilmore said:
Yes, you can make a Free Kick after a kickoff -- even if there's no time left on the clock. However, they would not have been able to use a tee, which would have made it much more difficult to make a 72-yard field goal.
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this is why it's an impossible kick. watch racker's attempt. not even close.

without a tee, i don't think nedney has a shot.

 
Granted it was with the aid of a tee, but Matt Prater has had at least 2 kickoffs so far this season that had the heigth and distance to go through the uprights. I'm not sure if they actually did, they could have been just wide right or left. Kicking off from the 30 is the equivilant of an 80 yard field goal, so maybe, just maybe a 72 yarder without a tee is feasable. Put me in the camp of thinking the attempt has a better chance of success than a hail mary. However, what is missing from this discussion is that with a hail mary attempt, there is always the chance of a pass interference penalty giving the offensive team a much shorter field goal attempt.

 
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strong said:
TommyGilmore said:
Yes, you can make a Free Kick after a kickoff -- even if there's no time left on the clock. However, they would not have been able to use a tee, which would have made it much more difficult to make a 72-yard field goal.
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this is why it's an impossible kick. watch racker's attempt. not even close.

without a tee, i don't think nedney has a shot.
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Rackers completely miss kicked the ball. Would like to see what would have happened if he connected pure. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCBBUMnRqbo

If the Niners would have tried he would have only been three yards behind Rackers on that attempt.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Fullback Fro said:
After Favre somehow connected on a Hail Mary to Greg Lewis last week giving the Vikes what would become the go ahead touchdown, there were 2 seconds left on the clock.

Following the kickoff a Niner's player signaled fair catch. The kick was a very short, very high kick and was fair caught at the Niner's 38 yard line.

Is is not in the rules that the Niners could've attempted to lineup up for a uncontested kick-off style shot at a field go for the win. I have seen kickers after a 15 yard penalties knock kickoffs through the up-rights. I was just wondering if this should have been they play if legal.
Click to expand...
I like it and I agree; if Singletary has a call-in show you should ask him, because that seems like that would have been a great play. Maybe Nedney doesn't have that kind of leg though?
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He hit a 60-yarder in college. Might have been worth a shot. :thumbup:
 
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How does a 72 yard field goal have a better chance of occurring then a hail mary? Nobody in NFL history has made a field goal longer than 63 yards. Hail mary's happen once a year it seems

 
morris4903 said:
How does a 72 yard field goal have a better chance of occurring then a hail mary? Nobody in NFL history has made a field goal longer than 63 yards. Hail mary's happen once a year it seems
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The 63-yard attempt was made on a live play from scrimmage -- complete with snap, hold, and oncoming defenders.The 72-yard attempt would be from a kickoff formation -- no snap, no oncoming defenders, etc. The kicker would be able to get a running start at the ball, and the holder would be allowed all the time in the world to angle the ball in the most advantagous position. I think that's worth 9 yards.
 
morris4903 said:
How does a 72 yard field goal have a better chance of occurring then a hail mary? Nobody in NFL history has made a field goal longer than 63 yards. Hail mary's happen once a year it seems
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Its actually not a field goal. It would be a free kick with no snap from a line of scrimmage and no defenders trying to block any low trajectoried balls. Also, as previously mentioned, the kicker could attack the ball with a running start similar to a kickoff and not a three step field goal approach.
 
Fullback Fro said:
morris4903 said:
How does a 72 yard field goal have a better chance of occurring then a hail mary? Nobody in NFL history has made a field goal longer than 63 yards. Hail mary's happen once a year it seems
Click to expand...
Its actually not a field goal. It would be a free kick with no snap from a line of scrimmage and no defenders trying to block any low trajectoried balls. Also, as previously mentioned, the kicker could attack the ball with a running start similar to a kickoff and not a three step field goal approach.
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:honda:
 
TommyGilmore said:
morris4903 said:
How does a 72 yard field goal have a better chance of occurring then a hail mary? Nobody in NFL history has made a field goal longer than 63 yards. Hail mary's happen once a year it seems
Click to expand...
The 63-yard attempt was made on a live play from scrimmage -- complete with snap, hold, and oncoming defenders.The 72-yard attempt would be from a kickoff formation -- no snap, no oncoming defenders, etc. The kicker would be able to get a running start at the ball, and the holder would be allowed all the time in the world to angle the ball in the most advantagous position. I think that's worth 9 yards.
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Still think its a really really low percentage play if you can't use a tee. Kickers don't even practice kicking 72 yard field goals without a tee with a head start. Hail Mary's are practiced.
 
morris4903 said:
TommyGilmore said:
morris4903 said:
How does a 72 yard field goal have a better chance of occurring then a hail mary? Nobody in NFL history has made a field goal longer than 63 yards. Hail mary's happen once a year it seems
Click to expand...
The 63-yard attempt was made on a live play from scrimmage -- complete with snap, hold, and oncoming defenders.The 72-yard attempt would be from a kickoff formation -- no snap, no oncoming defenders, etc. The kicker would be able to get a running start at the ball, and the holder would be allowed all the time in the world to angle the ball in the most advantagous position. I think that's worth 9 yards.
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Still think its a really really low percentage play if you can't use a tee. Kickers don't even practice kicking 72 yard field goals without a tee with a head start. Hail Mary's are practiced.
Click to expand...
kickers practice kicking off the turf ALL THE TIME
 
Fullback Fro said:
morris4903 said:
TommyGilmore said:
morris4903 said:
How does a 72 yard field goal have a better chance of occurring then a hail mary? Nobody in NFL history has made a field goal longer than 63 yards. Hail mary's happen once a year it seems
Click to expand...
The 63-yard attempt was made on a live play from scrimmage -- complete with snap, hold, and oncoming defenders.The 72-yard attempt would be from a kickoff formation -- no snap, no oncoming defenders, etc. The kicker would be able to get a running start at the ball, and the holder would be allowed all the time in the world to angle the ball in the most advantagous position. I think that's worth 9 yards.
Click to expand...
Still think its a really really low percentage play if you can't use a tee. Kickers don't even practice kicking 72 yard field goals without a tee with a head start. Hail Mary's are practiced.
Click to expand...
kickers practice kicking off the turf ALL THE TIME
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At 72 yards away trying to kick it thru the uprights? What percentage of kickers in the league can make this kicks? As a Niners fan, I would much rather they try the hail mary. Many different things can happen with a defensive penalty, deflections, laterals, etc. where I know Nedney can't make that kick.
 
what do you think the odds are that Nedney can make that kick?

I'm thinking he might only hit one out of 10 at best. Seems the chances for completing a hail mary or getting a defensive penalty are pretty similar. Both options are long shots there.

 
shredhead said:
Granted it was with the aid of a tee, but Matt Prater has had at least 2 kickoffs so far this season that had the heigth and distance to go through the uprights. I'm not sure if they actually did, they could have been just wide right or left. Kicking off from the 30 is the equivilant of an 80 yard field goal, so maybe, just maybe a 72 yarder without a tee is feasable. Put me in the camp of thinking the attempt has a better chance of success than a hail mary. However, what is missing from this discussion is that with a hail mary attempt, there is always the chance of a pass interference penalty giving the offensive team a much shorter field goal attempt.
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Anyone else find it surprising that a Broncos fan thinks a 70+ yard field goal has a better chance of working than just throwing the ball up for grabs and hoping someone makes a play?
 
abrecher said:
Aaron Rudnicki said:
what do you think the odds are that Nedney can make that kick?

I'm thinking he might only hit one out of 10,000 at best. Seems the chances for completing a hail mary or getting a defensive penalty are pretty similar. Both options are long shots there.
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Fixed.
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well, I'm not sure what Nedney's leg strength is. I think some kickers could make that...especially in the right conditions.
 
A couple of points that others have mentioned but seem to be ignored:

1. No tee = big difference between kickoffs and the free kick

2. FG kicking is as much about rhythm as it is leg strength. Kickers do not regularly practice kicking off without a tee. When I have seen these kicks attempted, the kickers do approach it like a kick-off and take a longer approach than normal - its a lot like over swinging a golf club. If you don't catch the ball correctly it has no shot. See the Rackers video.

 
Sinn Fein said:
A couple of points that others have mentioned but seem to be ignored:1. No tee = big difference between kickoffs and the free kick
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I didn't mean to ignore that point, I'll buy it's a huge difference, didn't want to overlook that.. But I do wonder, is there any rule about how the holder has to hold the ball? Can he elevate it slighty on his toe to simulate a tee? Or does it have to be point-down in the grass?
 
if it is a free kick, it is allowed to kick it out of the hand like a punt, right?

that could help...

 
abrecher said:
Aaron Rudnicki said:
what do you think the odds are that Nedney can make that kick?

I'm thinking he might only hit one out of 10,000 at best. Seems the chances for completing a hail mary or getting a defensive penalty are pretty similar. Both options are long shots there.
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Fixed.
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If you'll lay those odds, I'll take that bet if the situation ever occurs.
 
UW72 said:
if it is a free kick, it is allowed to kick it out of the hand like a punt, right?that could help...
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No, it has to be from a teammate's hold, no tee, or... drop kick, which means the ball has to hit the ground and is kicked either as it contacts the ground or on the bounce back up, like the Flutie XP in 2006. Can't be a punt-like kick.
 
Sarnoff said:
UW72 said:
if it is a free kick, it is allowed to kick it out of the hand like a punt, right?that could help...
Click to expand...
No, it has to be from a teammate's hold, no tee, or... drop kick, which means the ball has to hit the ground and is kicked either as it contacts the ground or on the bounce back up, like the Flutie XP in 2006. Can't be a punt-like kick.
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Some kickers can drop-kick a ball as far as a punt, but it takes a LOT of practice (and the shape of a football is not really conducive for that type of kick).
 
a high school kid in Colorado recently broke the State Record using this rule....he hit a 67 yarder

also....just wondering....people have mentioned trying to get defensive pass interference on a hail mary.....has anybody ever actually seen that called...?

 
On long FG attempts, the kicker has to take a much higher angle to get over the defensive line. On this free kick, that is not necessary, adding at least a 10 yard difference to these long distance field goal attempts.

Still a pretty long shot, but better than a hail Mary I think.

 
A fair catch/free kick decided a Packers-Bears game in 1968. Mac Percival of Chicago kicked a 43 yd FG in the final minute of a game at Lambeau for a 13-10 victory. Judging from the length, the kick must have been after a punt.

ETA: Surprised there's a Wikipedia page dealing with this subject. The Percival kick was the last successful attempt.

 
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QuizGuy66 said:
Here you go

-QG
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Regular season and postseasonDate Kicker Team Opponent Yards Result Game time Notes

November 20, 1933 Ken Strong New York Giants Green Bay Packers 30 good 3rd quarter [4]

October 23, 1955 Ben Agajanian New York Giants Pittsburgh Steelers 56 missed 0:30, 2nd [5]

November 2, 1958 Gordy Soltau San Francisco 49ers Detroit Lions 61 wide right 0:15, 2nd [6]

September 13, 1964 Sam Baker Philadelphia Eagles New York Giants 47 short 0:00, 2nd [7]

September 13, 1964 Paul Hornung Green Bay Packers Chicago Bears 52 good 0:00, 2nd [8]

December 4, 1966 Fred Cox Minnesota Vikings Atlanta Falcons 40 good 0:00, 2nd [9]

November 23, 1967 Bruce Gossett Los Angeles Rams Detroit Lions 55 short 0:03, 2nd [10]

November 3, 1968 Mac Percival Chicago Bears Green Bay Packers 43 good 0:20, 4th game-winning kick[11]

December 8, 1968 Fred Cox Minnesota Vikings San Francisco 49ers 47 short 0:00, 2nd [12]

October 5, 1969 Curt Knight Washington Redskins San Francisco 49ers 56 wide left 0:02, 4th Game tied 17-17[13]

November 23, 1969 Tom Dempsey New Orleans Saints San Francisco 49ers 57 short/wide left 0:00, 2nd [14]

November 1, 1970 Curt Knight Washington Redskins Denver Broncos 49 missed 0:00, 2nd [15]

November 8, 1971 David Ray Los Angeles Rams Baltimore Colts 45 missed 0:00, 2nd Monday Night Football[16]

November 25, 1979 Mark Moseley Washington Redskins New York Giants 74 short 4th quarter [17]

September 29, 1980 Fred Steinfort Denver Broncos New England Patriots 73 missed 0:00, 2nd Monday Night Football[18]

November 18, 1984 Raul Allegre Indianapolis Colts New England Patriots 61 short 0:00, 2nd Fair catch of onside kick[19]

January 1, 1989 Mike Cofer San Francisco 49ers Minnesota Vikings 60 short 0:00, 2nd NFC Divisional Playoff[20]

October 9, 2005 Rob Bironas Tennessee Titans Houston Texans 58 short 0:00, 2nd [21]

November 23, 2008 Neil Rackers Arizona Cardinals New York Giants 68 short 0:05, 2nd [22]

December 28, 2008 Mason Crosby Green Bay Packers Detroit Lions 69 short 0:00, 2nd Lions lost 31-21 to finish regular season 0-16

[edit]Exhibition games

Mark Mosley attempted a SEVENTY FOUR YARDER like this? lol I hope that's on youtube.

 
Gramatica kicked a 77 yard field goal in warmups before a game at Kansas State. I remember Kirk Herbstreit talking about it during the game.

With no rush and the ability to take as many steps as the kicker wants, I think a 72 yard free kick is a lot more possible than a lot of people seem to think.

 
Stinkin Ref said:
a high school kid in Colorado recently broke the State Record using this rule....he hit a 67 yarderalso....just wondering....people have mentioned trying to get defensive pass interference on a hail mary.....has anybody ever actually seen that called...?
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Yah. That was part of the miracle double overtime victory by the Browns over the Jets in the playoffs. Browns were down by 10 with about 2 minutes to play. They scored a TD, got a 3 and out, and then the Jets were called for a PI on a hail mary to set up the tying field goal in the final seconds.
 
Wow... that Crosby kick is in the cold, and the announcers mention a breeze in his face. This is a lot more plausible than I thought.

 
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