What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Fun With 2007 Defensive Statistics 1 (1 Viewer)

Jene Bramel

Footballguy
For those of you who aren't into Bramel novellas, a short version with the highlights has been cross-posted to the FBG Blog.

We're going to have some fun with 2007 statistics over the next few weeks and see if we can glean some worthwhile information for buy low, sell high and tiering purposes. I freely admit that the metrics won't be perfect, but I'm a firm believer that there are some interesting tidbits to be learned if you consider the statistical measures in their correct context.

The spreadsheet in Part One of this series (attached below) was inspired by a metric that the folks at Football Outsiders publish in their annual Pro Football Prospectus. It calculates the percentage of the total team tackles made by each team's linebackers last season. PFP percentages include sacks, PD and INT numbers as well and are usually higher (in the 16-20% range in some instances). I'm just considering solo tackles here -- to remove the assisted tackle bias and focus primarily on the benchmark stat for IDP value.

To kick off the discussion...

Limitations:

The calculated percentage is derived from the AVERAGE per game team tackle total. Players who didn't play a full 16 games at their established position (injury, role change, etc.) will be skewed slightly. I adjusted Jon Beason, David Harris and Daryl Smith for their year end positions to eliminate some of that bias.
This is just one season's worth of data. I'll make an effort to generate some additional year's data to find some seasonal norms. It'll be worth noting just how far out of the norm the 15% plus tier may be and what kind of trends might emerge for players in the first three years or between schemes, etc. For now, I was just interested to see how the 2007 players compared.
The NFL.com stats include special teams plays in the total team tackle column. Thus, the raw percentages are actually higher.
Tackles are an UNOFFICIAL stat. Teams award solo and assisted tackles inconsistently.
RANK PLAYER TACKLE PERCENTAGE 1 ZACH THOMAS 15.74% 2 PATRICK WILLIS 15.64% 3 DAVID HARRIS 15.02% 4 JON BEASON 12.72% 5 NICK BARNETT 12.67% 6 DJ WILLIAMS 12.63% 7 MIKE PETERSON 12.02% 8 LONDON FLETCHER 11.95% 9 KIRK MORRISON 11.64% 10 DEMECO RYANS 11.24%Pretty much a who's who of 4-3 MLB and 3-4 ILB talent here. Ryans would have projected to 13.47% and 4th overall on this list if we assume he'd have continued his pre-injury pace over the final four games. I'll argue that it's not a coincidence that, despite having solid WLB next to them, the two teams who used the most Bates-like schemes in 2007 (GB and DEN) both placed their MLB in the top ten. And, again, this metric is proof-positive that a talented 3-4 ILB can make plenty of plays with a favorable combination of skill set, scheme and surrounding cast.Other interesting observations:

**Jacksonville MLB 2007

7 Mike Peterson 12.02%

61 Daryl Smith 7.34%

Acknowledging that Daryl Smith's 2007 MLB sample size was only five games, there's just no way that people should continue to argue that Smith is a better MLB than Peterson. Some of this discrepancy is Peterson making plays as a stud backer and some of it is Durant proving he's an NFL talent. But not all of it. The same statistical differences were evident in 2006. Smith has yet to be an IDP option at MLB, and I continue to believe that he never will be.

**The spreadsheet proves that a good Tampa-2 WLB can take advantage of plenty of opportunity.

15 Ernie Sims 10.63%

16 Freddie Keiaho 10.51%

22 Lance Briggs 10.24%

28 Derrick Brooks 9.78%

The first three on that list all had a higher tackling percentage than their MLB counterparts. Not that a MLB in a Tampa-2 scheme isn't valuable, but those MLBs are going to need a higher raw opportunity than their non-T2 counterparts.

**Tennessee OLB 2007

11 David Thornton 11.20%

53 Keith Bulluck 8.19%

Other than making a fool of myself for arguing that Thornton was a primo sell high candidate last offseason and that Bulluck was a lock to rebound at some point this season, I don't know what else this stat shows. I'm almost hoping to hear that Bulluck needs offseason surgery for some nagging injury. Going to be hard to avoid Bulluck as a LB2 next season, but I'm known to be stubborn about these kinds of things. Which is really part of the purpose for searching out new ways to break down the raw statlines -- we're big on acting rather than reacting and anticipating rather than falling behind the curve. Holding on to a guy like Bulluck to anchor your lineup for too long is a killer.

**The first linebacker that doesn't see every down snaps is Matt Wilhelm at #32.

And he really only sits in certain subpackages and dime situations. We argued the point with another hefty statistical slant in an early season Reading the Defense, but those that would argue that paying attention to who plays and who sits in the nickel defense is a fool's errand can take the non-nickel backers at their own risk. It's also worth noting that Wilhelm still finished with a higher percentage than LILB Stephen Cooper (#50 -- 8.49%), which again proves our 1-gap 3-4 corollary -- WILB are valuable targets in the 1-gap 3-4 schemes.

**35 Lofa Tatupu 9.64%

:goodposting: I've heard the arguments about how the loss of Marcus Tubbs affects the Seahawk run defense. I know Tatupu has never been a huge solo tackle guy. And I understand that Patrick Kerney, Leroy Hill and Julian Peterson are solid pursuit players and Seattle has one of the best run supporting corners in the league, but this number just doesn't make sense to me. I'll update this thread with Tatupu's 2005 and 2006 percentage at some point, but you have to think that Tatupu's 83 solos are an anomaly.

**17 Paul Posluszny 10.47%

Small sample size issues again, but don't forget about this guy in redraft leagues. Mid LB2 floor in 2008.

PCT_TEAM_TACKLE_BY_LB.xls

 

Attachments

  • PCT_TEAM_TACKLE_BY_LB.xls
    36.5 KB · Views: 36
Last edited by a moderator:
The raw data is awesome. Would love to see this percentage broken down for cornerbacks and safeties over the past 3 years.

 
The raw data is awesome. Would love to see this percentage broken down for cornerbacks and safeties over the past 3 years.
It's on the list. :thumbdown: If people remain interested, I've got a long list of potential statistical manipulations we can mess around with.
 
Top 20 Linebackers Ranked by Percentage of Total Team Tackles Per Game (2003-2007)

1 ZACH THOMAS 2007 15.74% (5 GAMES PRIOR TO INJURY)2 PATRICK WILLIS 2007 15.62%3 DAVID HARRIS 2007 15.02% (9 GAMES ILB STARTER)4 ZACH THOMAS 2005 14.79%5 DEMECO RYANS 2006 14.70%6 ZACH THOMAS 2004 13.97%7 KEITH BROOKING 2003 13.86%8 JONATHAN VILMA 2005 13.81%T9 KEITH BULLUCK 2003 13.77%T9 RAY LEWIS 2003 13.77%11 ZACH THOMAS 2006 13.64%12 DONNIE EDWARDS 2005 13.33%13 DONNIE EDWARDS 2003 13.28%14 DAVID THORNTON 2003 13.17%15 LANCE BRIGGS 2006 12.99%16 DERRICK BROOKS 2004 12.91%17 KEITH BULLUCK 2005 12.77%18 DONNIE EDWARDS 2004 12.73%19 JON BEASON 2007 12.72% (12 GAMES MLB STARTER)20 NICK BARNETT 2007 12.67%Things that jump out to me from this list:1. Zach Thomas is/was a hell of a player. There was plenty of hype surrounding Thomas for much of his career, but to place on this list FOUR times over the past five seasons (all in the top 12) shows just how much he was around the ball and making plays. And these weren't cream puff defenses either. The 2006 and 2004 Dolphins were top ten defensive units.

2. It seems unlikely that Patrick Willis and David Harris can keep up their current pace, and Willis in particular. Both players had percentages a full percentage point above where the majority of this list (which is full of stud talents) leveled out. Consider that both players played for teams that placed in the top five of tackle opportunities per game (we'll save that for a future Fun With Statistics thread) and that neither had an above replacement level talent anywhere else in the front seven and it's very likely that the 15+% benchmark is unattainable in 2008. Not that these guys are going to plummet in the IDP rankings -- they can lose 1.5 percentage points and STILL crack the top ten in this metric. Consider that Jon Vilma's 125+ solo tackle season in 2005 placed him only 8th on this list; the sky is not falling here, it's just that the cloud layer will be a little lower in 2008.

3. On the other hand, David Harris sticks out on this list like a sore thumb. I'll publish the rest of my research at some point this offseason, but many 3-4 coaches (1-gap or 2-gap) have been quoted as saying that the weak side inside linebacker is the guy they want making tackles. To my eyes, the tape shows Harris playing on the strong side for the majority of his starting snaps. I'm still searching for answers -- there are all kinds of contradictions to be found in the past five seasons' worth of data -- but Harris just doesn't fit well up there. I've got some hypotheses about him for later, but I'm putting my :link: on the record here for now.

4. Five players on that list are/were weak side inside linebackers in a 1-gap 3-4 defensive front. Two other 3-4 WILB finished in the top 25. I'll not beat that dead horse any longer.

5. T2 WLBs made the list three times. It's not as strong a trend -- none are repeat offenders and over the five years of data compiled, those players tend to settle between 10-11%. Still, it warrants mentioning since these guys are seen as "system players" and get turned over so quickly. Get the backups (with talent) cheaply and sell the guys likely to move on (with marginal talent) highly. Lance Briggs, should he leave Chicago, will be an extremely interesting case study given the controversy over whether he is truly a "system player."

6. Finally, look out for Jon Beason. Though his team provided the 7th most tackle opportunity in 2007, he was surrounded by plenty of talent in the Carolina front seven. Willis and Harris are going to draw the most attention on this list, but I'll continue to argue that Beason may be just as good a talent and the best long term IDP producer. And he's going to make me rue the day I caved and dropped him to 3rd overall on my rookie IDP list late last summer.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
outstanding stuff as always, jene...

it will be great to see this type of breakdown for DBs...

ALSO, if there is a correlation between the sets of data...

in other words, are teams with a LB high on list less likely to have DB, too, & vice verce?

SF had willis & michael lewis did well (late in season he was among DB leaders in tackles but he fell off last few weeks?)...

my guess would be that team defenses that gave up a bunch of tackles, period (could be because there offense wasn't very good & they were on field a lot, there defense wasn't that great & THEY couldn't get off the field, etc) might see both, but with a normal distribution of tackles closer to league average, one might preclude the other...

intuitively, it seems like if a team with a vacuum cleaner like zach thomas at MLB wouldn't leave many sloppy seconds or crumbs for the safeties... conversely, if a safety has monster TACKLE numbers, maybe it was because LBs weren't making enough plays...

this could be way off base & data may not support it... but it might be a helpful heuristic in making decisions on how to grade certain players based on SURROUNDING, contextual scheme & relative positional talent info... for instance... maybe bumping roman harper UP if new orleans doesn't upgrade at LB, but DOWN if they get a stud LB or two in free agency, draft?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
outstanding stuff as always, jene...it will be great to see this type of breakdown for DBs...ALSO, if there is a correlation between the sets of data...in other words, are teams with a LB high on list less likely to have DB, too, & vice verce?SF had willis & michael lewis did well (late in season he was among DB leaders in tackles but he fell off last few weeks?)...my guess would be that team defenses that gave up a bunch of tackles, period (could be because there offense wasn't very good & they were on field a lot, there defense wasn't that great & THEY couldn't get off the field, etc) might see both, but with a normal distribution of tackles closer to league average, one might preclude the other...intuitively, it seems like if a team with a vacuum cleaner like zach thomas at MLB wouldn't leave many sloppy seconds or crumbs for the safeties... conversely, if a safety has monster TACKLE numbers, maybe it was because LBs weren't making enough plays...this could be way off base & data may not support it... but it might be a helpful heuristic in making decisions on how to grade certain players based on SURROUNDING, contextual scheme & relative positional talent info... for instance... maybe bumping roman harper UP if new orleans doesn't upgrade at LB, but DOWN if they get a stud LB or two in free agency, draft?
Thanks Bob.I'll take a look, but I think it'll be hard to draw any real conclusions when comparing two different positions given all the variables -- differences in talent at both positions, impact of other surrounding cast members (CB and OLB), scheme differences, etc.When I do my quick projection set before my first set of rankings, though, I definitely consider surrounding cast. I don't know if there'll be any conclusive data (eg. the CAR and JAC SS/MLB duo both show up in the top ten of the 2007 PCT rankings but both NOR safeties are top ten with no NOR LB sniffing the top 30), but I still think it makes sense to upgrade the SS on a team with weak linebackers. Particularly on a team with a relatively weak defense overall.
 
When I do my quick projection set before my first set of rankings, though, I definitely consider surrounding cast. I don't know if there'll be any conclusive data (eg. the CAR and JAC SS/MLB duo both show up in the top ten of the 2007 PCT rankings but both NOR safeties are top ten with no NOR LB sniffing the top 30), but I still think it makes sense to upgrade the SS on a team with weak linebackers. Particularly on a team with a relatively weak defense overall.
I have noticed similar things with the Detroit safeties even when they have not been good talents, with a tendency towards the FS being the better player.This has also worked for teams like Atlanta in the past amoung others. Weak LBer helps the safeties out.
 
Nice Jean!

This thread... IPD 101 and 201, your on a roll! keep it coming!

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Users who are viewing this thread

Top