belljr
Footballguy
not sure he knows the son is a nutjob
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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter belljr
- Start date
TLEF316
Footballguy
I guess. The only thing I can think of is that placing Sansa with the Boltons (which makes Cersei think they somehow were involved in getting her out of King's Landing post Purple Wedding) is the only way that the Queen would allow him to go in there afterwards.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
LF purposfully put Sansa there to marry the Bolton lunatic so to piss off Cersei and set him up to take over the North.
Care to unpack? I am not a book reader, so I have no idea if they are staying true/jumping off. Did they change people or did they say they were changing things up? I watch the walking dead and I know they have strayed a bunch from the comics (they said so and some of the main characters didn't exist in the comics), but the general gist and path is the same. I don't read the comics, but they've said they were sticking to the main story lines. This show seems like one where you really would have to stick to the stories or you would be completely off. For instance, if LF is doing things he didn't in the book, it would be hard to correct the course if he ends up as warden of the north. The walking dead could easily just have character X play the role of a dead character and it wouldn't change a thing. You kill someone who does something huge in GOT at the wrong time and the connections to the book path could be gone.
shadyridr
Footballguy
I'm not a book reader either but everything I've read said this season and going forward will diverge from the books quote a bit. If this season is any indicator then we're in for a rough ride imo.I'm just assuming though. For all i know this stuff is directly from the books. That being said it does seem to be lower quality writing and the story seems to be going nowhere all of a sudden.
babydemon90
Footballguy
Two major things in the show that don't ever happen in the books..
- Littlefinger and Sansa never go to Winterfell - Sansa is never up there to marry Ramsey. There is a 'fake Arya' that he marries, but no involvement with Littlefinger there.
- Jaime and Bronn never go to Dorne, Jaime instead heads north to deal with aftermath of the North's rebellion.
- Jaime and Bronn never go to Dorne, Jaime instead heads north to deal with aftermath of the North's rebellion.
kentric
Footballguy
Didn't they already tell her that re-arming them won't be a contributor to the decision to arrest her.
I thought it was interesting how they developed dependence between characters and then pulled the rug.
1. Sansa and Ramsey. They initially portrayed Ramsey as being enamoured with Sansa when they first met. That turned 180 degrees after they were married. Now Ramsey is torturing both Sansa and Reek by having Reek watch him take Sansa.
2. Tommen and Margery. Margery is depicted as having Tommen wrapped around her fingers yet he watches her being dragged away. Tommen was supposed to be viewed as a step up from his brother, but he is actually very weak. His brother, for all his cruelty, would never allow this to happen.
shadyridr
Footballguy
kentric
Footballguy
I thought the first part was weak as well. Unless there is some form of taboo about nudity in the world, having a squire see a birthmark is to be expected. I guess they could have measured the diameter of Loras' anal cavity, but not many other options were available.
The queen mother has stated a number of times that she was acting in the King's name. I'd expect she verbalized something to Tommen and then threw a parchment in front of him to have him sign and make into a decree.
kentric
Footballguy
Another nit-pick was tied to your pile. The fact that the two were able to walk into the palace gardens with bloodied uniforms. Didn't make much sense that all they had to do was follow some pilgrims in.
El Floppo
Footballguy
and is also her nephew or cousin.
grandmother is not going to let any of this stand.
kentric
Footballguy
But Lancel said that Cersei could redeem herself. Something along the line of seeing if she's changed her ways to support her not being arrested.
Mrs Peel used to be my favorite fantasy girl. At this time, the only pressure she can bring to bear is cutting off food or threatening Cersei through some other means. I don't think she has the manpower to forcibly change things.
https://www.google.com/search?q=emma+peel+images&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=939&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=f-xZVeTeCcSngwTx6oGYCw&ved=0CB0QsAQ&dpr=1#tbm=isch&q=diana+rigg+images&imgrc=HrbfeRf9DfzazM%253A%3BAvjdOzbf0EU4WM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Ffc09.deviantart.net%252Ffs70%252Ff%252F2013%252F286%252F7%252F3%252Fdiana_rigg_by_koqueen1-d6qb9yo.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fkoqueen1.deviantart.com%252Fart%252FDiana-Rigg-406993200%3B372%3B798
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I liked it. I think this season has been tremendous. They are building tension everywhere without the typical battle and war type stuff that they could use. The game of the thrones is just as much about the deplorable acts taken by the powerful families against each other in a cold war then it is simple battle after battle after battle. And the psychological aspects of this season are far beyond the prior seasons.
This entire episode was about lying. Using lies, telling lies, suffering from lies, and so on. The most important moment of the show wasn't anything anyone is talking about, it's the scene with the girl and Arya in the body cleaning room when she tells Arya her story, and then ends it by saying, "Was that a lie?" That, I think (or at least how I'm taking it) is the thread of this season, and very much this episode. There are so many lies, so many half truths, and so many interweaving stories for so many characters and all of it right down to the core is built on one lie after another.
Arya is still the 1A character on the show. That girl can act and the character is a great character. Her whole part of this episode was part of the learning process she had to ensure to take the next step with the Faceless men. And I think the lesson there was not that "I am nobody" means that she really has no identiy and can be built into something. I think what it is supposed to mean that by being nobody she can be anybody. She can't cling to her own story because she has to be all stories. She can be a lady, an orphan, etc. etc. That face room scene was amazing. The camera work in this show is brilliant.
Tyrion is still the best. In every possible way. Peter Dinklage is putting on an acting clinic in this show the likes of which I don't think television has seen in a great long time if ever. Every moment is brilliant, every emotion is real, every line is perfectly delivered.
Sansa. So reading spoilers like I do this was coming. The guy playing Theon stole that scene though. You really felt every bit of his pain and saw all the emotions he suffered in those last shots. I will admit that I was ready for him to just pick up a knife and kill the guy before Sansa had to suffer, but the ending was fine by me. Sansa character is getting better and better too. She has some acting chops as well.
I think we are all assuming that Littlefinger wants Sansa. I'm not so sure anymore. He told us who he was when he and Varys were matching wits in the throne room 3 years ago - he is an agent of chaos so long as that chaos results in him gaining more power and one day sitting on that throne. It was the noble families that declared him nothing as a child and he had to work his way out of that. I'm not so sure he has any love for anyone except himself, Sansa included. She was just a perfect means to an end. And given that we have to assume that all his schemes from Eddard Stark right to now have pretty much worked the way he wanted them to, he had to know the result of his talk with Cersei. And if that is the case, then his plan is a pretty good one. He has the Vayle take over the north in doing so he has destroyed the Baratheons once and for all and the Boltons who no one likes anyway. Sansa will ally herself with him thereby giving him the legitimacy in the North with the people while at the same time having the backing of the crown.
Cersei is in for a really really really rude awakening soon. She can't control what she let loose. We have to assume she knew this was going to happen, but in allowing it to happen she just destroyed her only alliance and let the religious zealots take over King's Landing. The only really good story line for that city is abject civil war at this point. It's definately a powder keg.
Missed Jon Snow this episode.
There is a ton of convergence that needs to happen in the next 4 episodes. I'd be willing to bet that all the people that want more action are going to pleased because there has to be some - and I would say a lot.
Didn't miss Dany at all. Hopefully they figure out a way to make her story worthwhile again.
This entire episode was about lying. Using lies, telling lies, suffering from lies, and so on. The most important moment of the show wasn't anything anyone is talking about, it's the scene with the girl and Arya in the body cleaning room when she tells Arya her story, and then ends it by saying, "Was that a lie?" That, I think (or at least how I'm taking it) is the thread of this season, and very much this episode. There are so many lies, so many half truths, and so many interweaving stories for so many characters and all of it right down to the core is built on one lie after another.
Arya is still the 1A character on the show. That girl can act and the character is a great character. Her whole part of this episode was part of the learning process she had to ensure to take the next step with the Faceless men. And I think the lesson there was not that "I am nobody" means that she really has no identiy and can be built into something. I think what it is supposed to mean that by being nobody she can be anybody. She can't cling to her own story because she has to be all stories. She can be a lady, an orphan, etc. etc. That face room scene was amazing. The camera work in this show is brilliant.
Tyrion is still the best. In every possible way. Peter Dinklage is putting on an acting clinic in this show the likes of which I don't think television has seen in a great long time if ever. Every moment is brilliant, every emotion is real, every line is perfectly delivered.
Sansa. So reading spoilers like I do this was coming. The guy playing Theon stole that scene though. You really felt every bit of his pain and saw all the emotions he suffered in those last shots. I will admit that I was ready for him to just pick up a knife and kill the guy before Sansa had to suffer, but the ending was fine by me. Sansa character is getting better and better too. She has some acting chops as well.
I think we are all assuming that Littlefinger wants Sansa. I'm not so sure anymore. He told us who he was when he and Varys were matching wits in the throne room 3 years ago - he is an agent of chaos so long as that chaos results in him gaining more power and one day sitting on that throne. It was the noble families that declared him nothing as a child and he had to work his way out of that. I'm not so sure he has any love for anyone except himself, Sansa included. She was just a perfect means to an end. And given that we have to assume that all his schemes from Eddard Stark right to now have pretty much worked the way he wanted them to, he had to know the result of his talk with Cersei. And if that is the case, then his plan is a pretty good one. He has the Vayle take over the north in doing so he has destroyed the Baratheons once and for all and the Boltons who no one likes anyway. Sansa will ally herself with him thereby giving him the legitimacy in the North with the people while at the same time having the backing of the crown.
Cersei is in for a really really really rude awakening soon. She can't control what she let loose. We have to assume she knew this was going to happen, but in allowing it to happen she just destroyed her only alliance and let the religious zealots take over King's Landing. The only really good story line for that city is abject civil war at this point. It's definately a powder keg.
Missed Jon Snow this episode.
There is a ton of convergence that needs to happen in the next 4 episodes. I'd be willing to bet that all the people that want more action are going to pleased because there has to be some - and I would say a lot.
Didn't miss Dany at all. Hopefully they figure out a way to make her story worthwhile again.
timschochet
Footballguy
Great analysis, Yankee. I agree with almost all of it. I was down on episode 5 since it dragged a bit, but overall this season has been on par with the best the series has to offer.
Well that sort of sucks and worries me. The second bullet has been the worst part of this season due to the sand snakes.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Tommen is the perfect king for the story. Weak so he has no schemes of his own and in that his rule is being undermined at every turn out of his control. And his mother is the one behind the scenes pulling all the strings. A strong king can unify the lands either in support of him or hatred of him. But a weak king can result in letting loose every noble lord's scheme to be king himself and that is the game they are all playing. No one was really doing that with Robert and no one got very far trying to do it with Joffrey. But now? Everything is up for grabs and the kid that gets to wear the crown is at least now powerless to do anything about it.
I did have a thought though while the priest soldiers were taking his queen away. I wonder if he starts to see what his mother is at all. He hasn't shown any ability to do that, though. But he very much looked like someone trying to figure out just what the heck was going on in that moment and if he continues to think about it he really shouldn't take that long to see at least a part of what happened. Maybe not though. It's going to be a shame when he dies as I assume he will. He really hasn't done anything wrong except be the last kid in line for the throne.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Agree as well. For me the Dorne storyline has been the only turd in the stew.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Yeah I could so without it - but having said that Jamie and Bron are really good characters. So at least there is that. I hope Bron doesn't die from that fight though. Be a shame to lose him.
bigmarc27
Footballguy
Yeah so I agree with the synopsis, but I still think the stories lack momentum. What are we building towards here? I'm not talking about action necessarily, just substantial progression of the story.
Each season has had weak story arcs - Brienne getting throw into a fighting pit with a bear, most of Dany after she got the unsullied as well as when she was in the city with the warlocks. Stannis applying for a loan in Bravos last season had me audibly laughing that the show was wasting time on showing that scene.
In the end though, each season had defining moments that you can call back to and remember...
Season 1 - Bran getting kicked out of the window, Ned's beheading, Birth of Dragons, etc...
Season 2 - The battle between Stannis and King's Landing as well as Tyrion's return after being captured
Season 3 - Red Wedding - best scene and story line from the entire series so far
Season 4 - Joffrey, the battle at the wall, the Mountain vs the Viper
Season 5 - ehhh some religious nuts don't like gay sex?
El Floppo
Footballguy
hfs moment... I had no idea that was her.
but I disagree- the whole "incest" thing bringing children as heirs... I doubt that's going to fly with the head Sparrow, regardless of what Lancel said.
JerseyToughGuys
Tough Guy
some really clunky scenes last night. New / different director?
bigmarc27
Footballguy
They have different directors doing different stories all over the world at the same time. The Dorne crew is noticeably less talented.
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El Floppo
Footballguy
interesting- didn't occur to me that that's how they're doing things, but of course. and yeah- that makes sense why the Dorne scenes are so... off.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
It's setting up for a massive confrontation in the North. You have Stannis, Bolton, Jon Snow, wildings, Castle Black and now Littlefinger and the Vale all converging there somehow, with Sansa in the middle of all of it, and Theon clearly hitting his breaking point - he will end up helping her somehow and probably sacrifice himself doing it. If the Arya poison scene was anything more that a continuation of her story it was a reminder that death eases pain and few in this universe have suffered more than Theon - much of it deserved.
If the season ends with Tyrion and Dany together, you know they are going to be pushing Dany's story next season because they aren't going to allow Dinklage to be a minor character - at least I hope not. That would truly annoy me. Jon Snow's specific storyline is going to climaxe one way or the other this season. We pretty much can see that coming. The north will be alligned with someone and most likely whoever it is will not be an ally of the Lannisters. Cersei might make it out of this season alive but she is destroying King's Landing in the process. The Tyrell's are going to hate her for good at this point no matter what, her uncle already hates her and Casterly Rock is bankrupt. In fact, when you think about it, what this season has set up is really pretty interesting.
Throughout 5 seasons the Lannisters have been the most powerful family. They have controled the crown either by sitting on it or marrying into it and the whole host of problems in the world boil down to how they ruled from the second Robert died. Except that, right now, the Lannisters are where the Starks looked like they were headed at the end of the Red Wedding. The only Lannisters with any part of the story anymore are Cersei, who is going to suffer a massive downfall, Tommen who is too weak to rule and will lose his kingdom through inaction, Kevan, who basically washed his hands of the whole family especially Cersei, the daughter in Dorne who hasn't been anything important yet, and Tyrion who is now not part of the family anymore. The true powers of that family are dead, the Iron Bank helped Stannis which means they have to have either stopped helping the Lannisters or or at least helping them less, and the Tyrell's will be an emeny now. They are beseiged on all sides. And Jamie is a wildcard at this point who probably still loves his sister but beyond that......
Meanwhile, the Starks - Arya is going to be an assassin. Sansa though having a brutal few years is poised to possibly regain the north in the smoke and ashes of what is to follow, and the two boys are alive somewhere in hiding. They lost Ed, Catherine and Robb, but the family is still alive and the North "remembers," which means that they still have a following and alliances that they can use. They might not be the ruling family right now, but they are still poweful players while the Lannisters are dying a slow death.
You know a true mind **** to the viewers would be if the Starks and the "good guys" end up finaly controling Westeros somehow and bringin peace right before Dany crosses the ocean to try to take the throne and the final season(s) is a battle between the Stark tree and Dany and her misfit band of followers from all the old noble houses. Who do fans root for at that point?
kentric
Footballguy
But there's no way to prove the incest thing unless there were actually witnesses. Lancel has first-hand dealings with Cersei where he could say they were lovers (adultery maybe - not sure whether she was still married) but its not like they have DNA testing for the childrens.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
But then he doesn't have the crown backing his claim because Cersei doen't help him without the Sansa head on spike line.
The Ref
Footballguy
What is interesting is it seems most people were okay with the season open till this last episode. I was down on the season until this last episode. I think a lot of conflict is now set in motion. I think the set up for the rest of the season is actually on a good foundation.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Theon's sister Yara and her group are still kicking around up there as well. Also, last we saw of Rickon and Osha they were heading to the Last Hearth.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Agreed. The directing and fight sequences we have seen in the Dorne scenes are significantly below the normal GOT standards. On top of that, I think that they made some bad casting calls for the sand snakes. They have not had a lot of dialogue but what they have had has been on the cringe side of things. Quality, which has always been a hallmark of this series, is rather lacking in the whole Dorne storyline right now.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Cripes, the innerwebs are exploding with the Sansa bed scene. It's like a fan civil war. Again, I admit I was rooting for Theon to wake up and kill Ramsey but the scene was really well done. And the fact that he didn't do it makes it all the more powerful. I thought it was a great scene.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Or that they just happen to arrive the exact same time the sand snakes came to do the same thing? sheesh
bigmarc27
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I am wondering if it is not so much about actually doing what he said he was going to do (take the Knights of the Vail and fight for the crown against with Bolton or Stannis) but rather a great excuse to mobilize the Knights of the Vail to have them join the victor. Littlefinger is all about betting and hedging his bets. He has already alluded as much to Bolton that they will be allies and he pretty much told Sansa that he was going to ally with Stannis. I think he smells the Lannister blood in the water and is thinking it is likely time to strike. Telling Cersei that he is going to fight them buys him time and if the Boltons and Stannis beat up each other so bad that he can easily take them- then he wins that way as well. Bets and hedging bets.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Pretty much every other show would have had Theon make some sort of sacrificial save of Sansa there..... one of the big factors I love about this show is that what is the norm or what you expect or maybe even what you hope- is not what is going to happen. If you have not gotten that yet then you are not paying attention.
The Ref
Footballguy
I hope the greyjoy girl turns up at some point. I really liked her character and I hated it when she was used as a ploy to enforce that her brother was "dead".
bigmarc27
Footballguy
Hasn't the point been that he's not Theon anymore? I was actually surprised they had him say Theon instead of Reek when he gave Sansa away.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
The Ref
Footballguy
It's looking like he will be the last man in with two armies at his back and a big wildcard in the inside. Sansa is going to have a big "growing up" moment soon, in fact she has already shown a few. I'm handicapping a Bolton stannis draw, the wildlings push stannis over and then littlefinger comes in and wipes them all out.
Who knows though? I think the north has quickly become the most interesting place in the whole universe right now. So many ways it can go.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I am not a fan of red heads at all. That being said, she has certainly grown into a very beautiful young lady. I think she is 17/18 about now.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
The parts with just Jaime/Bronn bantering with each other are good. Everything else, from the overacting sand snakes and their mommy to the horrible fight scenes to the ridiculous coincidences are all terrible.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
She is 19, and I don't get what you guys are seeing at all - and I usually dig redheads.
shadyridr
Footballguy
a man lies
