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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (8 Viewers)

the moops said:
Why are you assuming the other girl had the same blindness training thing?
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Seems pretty common place that the trainer has the experience that they try to pass on to the trainee, correct? The T-waif did all of her fighting training. Which is more believable, that the trainer has less experience or more? If Jaqen was doing the fight training then I wouldn't have assumed. Heck, if Syrio did the training in the dark, cool. The T-waif was her fighting instructor and was a no one, I would think it is extremely likely she went through everything Arya did and as we have seen she's way better. 

 
stbugs said:
Tons of agreement in here about Arya being the drag on an otherwise good show. You fan boys get ridiculous. How about telling us why Arya's scenes the past few episodes were top notch. All I remember is some montage fighting scenes and a Terminator scene. 
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To be clear that isn't what I'm saying. I love Arya as a character. I've just gotten bored by the whole Faceless Assassin storyline and I'm glad it's over. I want her back in Westeros and ideally I'd like to see her back with the Starks (namely with Jon), I thought the last 10 minutes or so of the episode last night were really fun stuff. Arya luring the Waif into a trap, carving her face off and then telling off Jaqen at the end with her I'm Arya Stark ##### and don't you forget it. That was all good stuff and now I'm hoping her storyline gets back to more interesting places.

 
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Thunderlips said:
I don't think it's about how awesome the scenes are as by what, based on the narrative of the show,  those scenes accomplished.  
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Completely agree and in some cases that makes sense. Walking Dead sucks in comparison with this show (I really do like this show, just don't love everything), but many complaints are about the journey when you know the end result was always going to be what happened. The journey in that show usually has way too many holes.

I just don't think the journey in Arya's case was good and the miracles/Terminator chase made the journey bad. Everyone loved Arya and Jaqen pre-waif. Honestly, I think the waif was the worst part. She made Arya look like crap and forced a bad last scene. 

 
Funkley said:
Yet.

Maybe some of you guys should go back to #### that resolves itself every 22 minutes.

ETA: and if you didn't think we saw "any" of that progression then I guess we are watching different shows.

:shrug:
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Again I'm ok with the conclusion of the arya storyline in bravos being she's now a master assassin. All I'm saying is the slow did a piss poor job of showing the progression. All I saw in two years is her cleaning dead bodies, becoming blind, getting her ### kicked every single time, and doing a very poor job hiding. The only victory she had was killing the waif and that wasnt shown either. I just that whole progression could have done better.

 
stbugs said:
Seems pretty common place that the trainer has the experience that they try to pass on to the trainee, correct? The T-waif did all of her fighting training. Which is more believable, that the trainer has less experience or more? If Jaqen was doing the fight training then I wouldn't have assumed. Heck, if Syrio did the training in the dark, cool. The T-waif was her fighting instructor and was a no one, I would think it is extremely likely she went through everything Arya did and as we have seen she's way better. 
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Arya was blind because she screwed up and took a face without being ready, right? Jaqqen used that to continue her training, but why would you assume the Waif got that same training?

 
shadyridr said:
Again I'm ok with the conclusion of the arya storyline in bravos being she's now a master assassin. All I'm saying is the slow did a piss poor job of showing the progression. All I saw in two years is her cleaning dead bodies, becoming blind, getting her ### kicked every single time, and doing a very poor job hiding. The only victory she had was killing the waif and that wasnt shown either. I just that whole progression could have done better.
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I think she did exactly the job of hiding she intended. I don't know if it was pre or post stabbing, but at some point she played the waif, big time.

 
Joe T said:
Agree.  :goodposting:

Great scenes with the story moving forward.  And completely avoided Sam, Bran, and whatever else I'm forgetting that is boring.
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The Sam & Gilly stuff is boring but so is the Tyrion/Grey Worm/Misandei open mic night. The Bran stuff is fascinating, especially the flashbacks.

The Mountain may be my new favorite character. He probably plays a lot of Mortal Kombat. 

 
The pitch black helps symbolize the rope-a-dope.....that Arya was setting up a formidable opponent and using her confidence against her. By the time the waif knew it was a figt the fight was over. Checkmate.

If you got bored by the set up, ok. But Arya had a lot to learn to get to a point where she could master her set up and execute it.

And now that she has and knows that she can.....look the &@$@ out.

my $.02

 
Chadstroma said:
If it was meant to be pitch black...... how would Jamie and Brienne have seen each other from 100s of yards away? :oldunsure:
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I have no clue if it was or wasnt meant to be pitch black. I just remember laughing and saying "they can see each other wave?" during that scene. Ultimately, I was just joking.

 
shadyridr said:
He knew he had a son. He just never met him.
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You are right, went back and checked.

The way it was done felt meh though. Imagine this instead...

Cut the talk about Cersei and Cat's maternal instincts meant to stir Edmure's.  Use the time to show Jaime bring in wife and baby and that he gives them a few days together so Edmure can bond with the child.

Then when Jaime's uniting of father and child without gain has us heartwarmed and the Brienne scenes remind how Jaime has changed positively from his child killing days of the pilot, THEN you have the catapult talk and it hits home harder for us.

Have the Frey idiot there to say how Jaime can't really kill a baby who gives Frey a legitimate Tully heir. And you have Jaime give a callback to "I told you, never make a threat you won't keep" to pull it all together.

A lot easier for the audience to empathize with Edmure after getting a taste of his bonding with the child. And it sets our opinion of Jaime up for a bigger fall.

 
the moops said:
Nobody cares about Edmure and the 15 minute scene you just described sounds boring and terrible
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Go fish elsewhere. Could have fit Jaime walking in, uniting them and walking out to a shot of Edmure beaming at the baby... in the time they spent on the Cersei-Cat talk which was slow and boring and didn't work.

 
Just got caught up on the past 25 pages/3 episodes:

  • Anyone who doesn't like the play within a play stuff is crazy
  • This thread has gotten really, really bad.
  • LOL at being upset that people speculated about the Hound returning, when that's been being speculated since the instant we last saw him
  • Maybe we need a thread for people who haven't read the books but have brains and know how to speculate/evaluate evidence?
  • Tyrion forcing everyone around them to drink as much as he does is basically me in college
  • Seriously, maybe a thread for people who don't watch previews?
  • I too believe Arya is not Arya, she's actually been Nymeria this whole - big twist coming!#!#!
  • Maybe a thread for all the people now trying to figure out who Nymeria is?
  • Oh, god, I just got to the part where all the rest of the season leaked, I hope it's a mistitled GoT porn parody or something.
  • A thread for people who just want to rate women/talk about the knockers (none of those around here... :unsure: )
  • The waif is a lie (#Portal)
  • Maybe a thread for people who only watch Game of Thrones while getting a blowie and playing Minecraft but who really really like Fight Club?
  • The fake spoilers on page 285 are significantly more unfunny than this current post you're reading... which is saying something.
  • Arya and Dany's mini-resolutions to their current arcs that occurred in last night's episode were always going to be unsatisfying because they were so ####### obvious, but at least we're hopefully at a point now where they move forward to less obvious plotlines.
  • Much more deaths happening off screen lately. The Waif, The Blackfish
  • Hodor?
  • The upcoming mystery re: Varys journey and Cersei's rumours seems a bit out of left field/manufactured, but those two generally move things forward, so I'll go with it.
  • A thread for people saying other people shouldn't watch/aren't worthy of this show? 
  • Kind of wanted to see Jaime and Brienne screw.
  • If we're done with Jaqen, his whole arc leaves me feeling a bit :shrug:
  • where the white walkers at?
 
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Northern Voice said:
  • Arya and Dany's mini-resolutions to their current arcs that occurred in last night's episode were always going to be unsatisfying because they were so ####### obvious, but at least we're hopefully at a point now where they move forward to less obvious plotlines.
  •  
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Sometimes, the thing that seems the most obvious is what happens. And sometimes your presumptive hero is beheaded at the end of S1. The book stuff seemed to have a knack for not always taking the most obvious route, and I think Martin's made his penchant for suberverting conventional tropes known. The stupid internet was enamored with this fan-service-y idea of a "CleganeBowl", and this week, the story just steers away from that happening. In a very realistic way.

Are we certain that Snow's going to pull an upset against the Boltons? Small chance it's a "clean" one, much larger chance that it's a Pyrrhic one in some way. Also there's a chance that they just flat-out lose, right? All of these characters seem like they're headed for King's Landing to be part of "the dawn", but knowing Martin, not all of them are going to make it. Hell, none of them might make it. 

I think with a good drama, nothing should ever feel inevitable. Even with the TV guys striking out on their own and somewhat out from under Martin's wing, I still don't feel like anything is inevitable.

 
stbugs said:
Right, just because people disagree or have a differing opinion they must not know how to follow this show. LOL, like art snobs telling other people that they just don't understand the symbolism of poop smeared on a canvas. Hey, sometimes #### is just ####. Great show, but Arya is no more of a bad ### now. In fact, I would say she was more of a bad ### on her list than she is now. She got the crap kicked out of her in every way and we've never seen her grow any skills. Oh, when she was blinded, she was so good. Well, no, she got her ### handed to her every time. Heck, just show us one time where she was able to beat the Terminator while blind and her final fight with her becomes believable. She couldn't even beat the girl empty handed. She never really learned any fighting skills, she just got beat up every time.

I was quoting before your edit, but please give me some detail on the progression. All I remember progressing was trying to convince people she wasn't Arya anymore and preparing dead people and even on the former, she hadn't really every mastered it. They knew she was still Arya.

Do you think she would be a better fighter if they just let her continue with The Hound? I do.
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Arya cut someone's face off and hung it on a wall.  How do you completely overlook that in your post?  I guess because that ruins your whole argument.

 
Good Posting Judge said:
Sometimes, the thing that seems the most obvious is what happens. And sometimes your presumptive hero is beheaded at the end of S1. The book stuff seemed to have a knack for not always taking the most obvious route, and I think Martin's made his penchant for suberverting conventional tropes known. The stupid internet was enamored with this fan-service-y idea of a "CleganeBowl", and this week, the story just steers away from that happening. In a very realistic way.

Are we certain that Snow's going to pull an upset against the Boltons? Small chance it's a "clean" one, much larger chance that it's a Pyrrhic one in some way. Also there's a chance that they just flat-out lose, right? All of these characters seem like they're headed for King's Landing to be part of "the dawn", but knowing Martin, not all of them are going to make it. Hell, none of them might make it. 

I think with a good drama, nothing should ever feel inevitable. Even with the TV guys striking out on their own and somewhat out from under Martin's wing, I still don't feel like anything is inevitable.
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In the cases of Dany and Arya's current (hopefully no longer as of last night) trajectories, I think them at least heading back towards Westeros WAS completely inevitable. Sure it could have played out differently but that would have been even less rewarding/made their past two seasons seem even more of a waste. I don't think what happens in/on the way back to Westeros is inevitable but I didn't really see their story arcs leading anywhere but where they are now (which is essentially where they were two seasons ago but better trained/prepared etc...)

 
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Northern Voice said:
In the cases of Dany and Arya's current (hopefully no longer as of last night) trajectories, I think them at least heading back towards Westeros WAS completely inevitable. Sure it could have played out differently but that would have been even less rewarding/made their past two seasons seem even more of a waste. I don't think what happens in/on the way back to Westeros is inevitable but I didn't really see their story arcs leading anywhere but where they are now (which is essentially where they were two seasons ago but better trained/prepared etc...)
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I think there was a telling connection, or parallel, between the joke Tyrion told about the three lords and Arya's decision/"resolution."

 
Doesn't it seem inevitable that everyone, including the White Walkers, will eventually end up in King's Landing? Seems like that's where the big battle would seem most fitting to be fought and whoever's left standing gets the Iron Throne.   

 
packersfan said:
Doesn't it seem inevitable that everyone, including the White Walkers, will eventually end up in King's Landing? Seems like that's where the big battle would seem most fitting to be fought and whoever's left standing gets the Iron Throne.   
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all of humanity vs white walkers, imo.

once/if the ww's are defeated, it reverts back to the game of thrones, with humanity conspiring to kill humanity. fade to black.

 
doowain said:
If this show has taught us anything, it's that unless you see them die....they could still be alive.  Not sure what purpose the Blackfish could still hold by being alive (joining Jon and Sansa?) or why the random soldier would tell Jamie he died in battle...but if they didn't show it maybe it didn't happen?
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I like this thinking. The soldiers liked Blackfish better and only turned castle over to Edmure due to ranking. He would be great with Jon/Sansa.

 
GregR said:
You are right, went back and checked.

The way it was done felt meh though. Imagine this instead...

Cut the talk about Cersei and Cat's maternal instincts meant to stir Edmure's.  Use the time to show Jaime bring in wife and baby and that he gives them a few days together so Edmure can bond with the child.

Then when Jaime's uniting of father and child without gain has us heartwarmed and the Brienne scenes remind how Jaime has changed positively from his child killing days of the pilot, THEN you have the catapult talk and it hits home harder for us.

Have the Frey idiot there to say how Jaime can't really kill a baby who gives Frey a legitimate Tully heir. And you have Jaime give a callback to "I told you, never make a threat you won't keep" to pull it all together.

A lot easier for the audience to empathize with Edmure after getting a taste of his bonding with the child. And it sets our opinion of Jaime up for a bigger fall.
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This would have been really good.  They should have gotten it started a few episodes ago shortly after Jamie arrives.  Let it make us think that Jamie was bringing humanity to the siege and really wanted Edmure treated better, only to turn around and slap us with this.

 
Good Posting Judge said:
Sometimes, the thing that seems the most obvious is what happens. And sometimes your presumptive hero is beheaded at the end of S1. The book stuff seemed to have a knack for not always taking the most obvious route, and I think Martin's made his penchant for suberverting conventional tropes known. The stupid internet was enamored with this fan-service-y idea of a "CleganeBowl", and this week, the story just steers away from that happening. In a very realistic way.

Are we certain that Snow's going to pull an upset against the Boltons? Small chance it's a "clean" one, much larger chance that it's a Pyrrhic one in some way. Also there's a chance that they just flat-out lose, right? All of these characters seem like they're headed for King's Landing to be part of "the dawn", but knowing Martin, not all of them are going to make it. Hell, none of them might make it. 

I think with a good drama, nothing should ever feel inevitable. Even with the TV guys striking out on their own and somewhat out from under Martin's wing, I still don't feel like anything is inevitable.
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I agree.  Sometimes the obvious tropes just get shoved aside in this show and I love that about it.  Sometimes they do follow through on the obvious tropes, but it needs to be that way.  If it were obvious to us that the obvious thing were never going to happen it would basically be the same as if we knew the obvious thing always would happen.

 
In regard to the Mountain, what is he - deal or alive?  And, either way, in the "ripped off the face" scene, he got hit in the chest with some sort of pointed maul and got a few inches of it in the chest.  No damage?

Loved Melisandre drunk.

 
packersfan said:
Doesn't it seem inevitable that everyone, including the White Walkers, will eventually end up in King's Landing? Seems like that's where the big battle would seem most fitting to be fought and whoever's left standing gets the Iron Throne.   
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No.   The story begins in Winterfell.   The whole ####### theme of the show is that winter is coming.   Jon Snow is gathering an army to go to Winterfell.   Bolton is in Winterfell. Theon, who is now with the vast majoriity of the ships from the Iron islands, was a hostage at Winterfell.   The white walkers are headed south to...Winterfell.  Jaime has now got two armies at Riverrun, halfway between King's Landing and Winterfell.  

And Arya after stalling out for a few years is going home... 

 
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-fish- said:
No.   The story begins in Winterfell.   The whole ####### theme of the show is that winter is coming.   Jon Snow is gathering an army to go to Winterfell.   Bolton is in Winterfell. Theon, who is now with the vast majoriity of the ships from the Iron islands, was a hostage at Winterfell.   The white walkers are headed south to...Winterfell.  Jaime has now got two armies at Riverrun, halfway between King's Landing and Winterfell.  

And Arya after stalling out for a few years is going home... 
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Wasn't one of the visions Daenerys had the throne room in Kings Landing with snow falling in it?

 
ProstheticRGK said:
Arya was blind because she screwed up and took a face without being ready, right? Jaqqen used that to continue her training, but why would you assume the Waif got that same training?
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Ugh, no matter what opinions people have they are wrong. It happened, we all knew the waif was going to get killed by Arya. Why are you assuming that the blindness training was only done for that specific reason? Jaqen could easily use that for a variety of things that trainees do. It was meant to teach Arya how to fend for herself without sight, so I would think that most trainees may go through it for any mistake, like Peter LaFleur.

Anyway, doesn't matter. I didn't like the car chase just like I didn't like the Rocky sparring sessions with the waif. Loved Arya with The Hound and Jaqen and even the initial understanding of the faceless men, but it amazes me the way people take this show so personally. Posts from the same "do you watch the show" crowd about how Arya setting the waif up. Really? Know exactly where and when she would get stabbed, which should have been fatal*, being able to swim over, get to the theater just in time, know exactly where the actress would take her, know exactly when the waif would show up again and know that the waif would take her sweet time walking after her to her trap. Sorry, I know what was going to happen, but that's a ridiculous set of assumptions starting with what was an easy kill for the waif, unless the waif was just setting herself up. Damn, makes sense now.

* Sorry, I shouldn't assume the waif was taught to kill people. She probably only got the fighting classes and none of the other training Arya got.

 
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