Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (3 Viewers)

[Mile High]

I thought it was a fantastic episode.  The fight scene with the Dothraki was awesome (production value a hell of a lot better than the Iron Islands naval battle - although it could have been on a grander scale).  One of their best episodes for me.  The scenes surrounding the dragon (and its aftermath) were great IMO.

A few points:

• Dany needs to know when to back out of a fight.  That one ballista shot went right past her head.  It was a mop-up operation at that point and she should have just done a skeedaddle.
  
• Dany.  Your troops are going to need that food you're burning to a crisp
  
• Someone needs to teach the Dothraki to do a better job of cutting off the head (put more emphasis of knocking off the leaders).
  

Maybe teach the Dothraki that where all milling about, cutting off heads, to maybe look at/stop the guy shooting giant arrows at your queen.

 

[kentric]

Nikolaj Coster-Waldeau owning the facial expressions....everything from:

"What the #### was that?"

to

"#### Me."

to

" I didn't sign up for this ####."

to

"Thanks, Bro".

to

"What the #### am I going to do?

to 

"I'm going to get that #####".

to

"####"

to

"Oh well, dying ain't that bad".

I think it was more like:

WHAT?!?!?

Oh heeeell no!

Hold up...

Huh??

Oh... Okay 

 

[dhockster]

When the dragon initially lit up the Lannister line of defense I was howling with laughter just like the sorcerer Tim did when the Killer Rabbit unleashed itself on King Arthur's men.

 

[eoMMan]

They are operating with a budget and have to make choices about what CGI to put in. They've stated before that it is easier to put in the Dragons vs the Wolves. Everyone has preconceptions about how wolves should move and it's difficult to get it to look "right". Imagine the nitpicking that would come from watching a wolf that didn't move "right". We've already heard that Dany is a lousy battle field commander cause she did not use more flanking ranks first and killed some of her Dothraki horde "needlessly". Not to mention how did she ever find them? Nobody had scouts?!

I think the wolves were real and not CGI.  Much like those Twilight movies...all real wolves (some were probably on steroids).

 

[ScottNorwood]

You guys want Bronn to die there?  #### no.  He can very believably switch sides at the end of the battle.

Jamie could've died there - not sure there's much left for him to do.  I guess we can expect him to turn on Cersei if she goes "mad queen" at some point but it's not really that interesting.

 

[ScottNorwood]

We never found out if Sansa was preggo or not.  Ramsey Bolton shooting blanks?

 

[eoMMan]

I was going back and forth the entire time or which side I was rooting for. In the final moment, I sided with Khaleesi and wish Kingslayer was turned to ash there. 

Seriously...how could you not side with Dany/dragons/Jon Snow?

The Lannisters are #####.  Jaime should have died in that scene and if he lives on past episode 5....lame.

 

[belljr]

So this will be dumb....

When Tyrion was mumbling how stupid someone was....

Was he talking about Jamie trying to attack dragon queen or the queen standing there trying to pull the arrow out

 

[packersfan]

You'd have to think Tyrion will free Jaime.  A Lannister Always Pay His Debts.  

They're definitely playing on a Dany can't trust Tyrion angle. First Olenna tells Dany not to listen to him and then last night Dany goes off on Tyrion (pretty harsh in my opinion) and questions his loyalty. How that will manifest itself remains to be seen but it's clearly part of the storyline right now. 

 

[packersfan]

So this will be dumb....

When Tyrion was mumbling how stupid someone was....

Was he talking about Jamie trying to attack dragon queen or the queen standing there trying to pull the arrow out

Jamie. When he first saw Jamie he wanted him to flee. 

 

[belljr]

Jamie. When he first saw Jamie he wanted him to flee. 

  That's right forgot about that

 

[packersfan]

Same

Yup. Absolutely brilliant. I felt like I was in Tyrion's shoes watching two sides of people I care about trying to kill each other. The capper would've been if Tyrion had seen Bronn there. 

 

[IrishTwinkie]

I think the wolves were real and not CGI.  Much like those Twilight movies...all real wolves (some were probably on steroids).

What I've read (no, not THOSE things) is that it depends on the shot. My understanding is that the pups were live. Later in the series the grown wolves were CGI. Most/all of adult Ghost, for example, is CGI. I know Sophie adopted the dog that played Lady as a pup. In the battle of the bastards the show runners needed to choose between WonWon and Ghost.

 

[Thunderlips]

You guys want Bronn to die there?  #### no.  He can very believably switch sides at the end of the battle.

Jamie could've died there - not sure there's much left for him to do.  I guess we can expect him to turn on Cersei if she goes "mad queen" at some point but it's not really that interesting.

All he wants is a castle.  

 

[Thunderlips]

I fully expect there to be a Dragon word for "fetch" and Drogon will just dip his head in the water and pull Jamie out. 

 

[culdeus]

based on previews drogon gets his shoulder scoped and is probable for Episode 5, will bench him in the 3rd quarter if a blowout.  

 

[packersfan]

Just read Noah Syndergaard had a cameo in the battle sequence.

Wonder if Thor will have to delete his Twitter now.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I also love both shows, but see and saw flaws in both. But I guess seeing and commenting on those means I don't like the shows. It's all very confusing, because I love those shows. 

Exactly. 

And loving those shows doesn't mean that you love every season, character, plot, episode equally.  I loved Breaking Bad, but I did want to punch out Skylar and sis sometimes just like I checked out any time Bran was being dragged up to the wall or we check in with Sam stumbling around.  I love Breaking Bad, but thought the middle seasons were better than the first just like I think seasons 3 and 4 of GoT were the peak of the show (so far). 

I guess I probably go a little bit the other way because I find it more interesting to discuss these things vs just having a thread where everybody just comes in a gushes over everything, so that's on me.  Doesn't mean that I don't still love this series - I wouldn't still be watching and starting a reread if that was the case.

 

[kentric]

So this will be dumb....

When Tyrion was mumbling how stupid someone was....

Was he talking about Jamie trying to attack dragon queen or the queen standing there trying to pull the arrow out

I'm pretty sure he was calling Jamie stupid for doing a run at the dragon from 200 yards away.  All it would take is for either Dany or the dragon to look up and he was toast.

 

[KarmaPolice]

4.  I don't know what you're talking about.

Somebody joked (maybe Floppo), and I had the same thought, that Dany's first pass with the dragon basically just opened up a small lane in the spear wall and the Dothraki still just slammed into in and died by the bunches.  Doesn't seem like a great strategy, but you know - 1. drama and 2. if she did that we wouldn't get to the the Dothraki in action. 

 

[Pipes]

Good show.

Bron or Jamie (or at least one of the Tarlys) should have died in that one, but I imagine they want to get another scene or two in with Tyrion/Bron, Tyrion/Jamie before it all ends. I liked how despite everything, Tyrion was still rooting for his brother not to get killed.

My one minor gripe about last night.  I love Bronn but he shot that bolt as the dragon was breathing fire.  He should not have been able to just dive to the ground to avoid getting torched by a massive fireball.  Still a great episode for sure.

 

[bostonfred]

Danny captures Jamie and bronn

Danny says hey tyrion if you're so anti lanister tell me what to do with Jamie  and bronn

Tyrion can't say kill Jamie because that's his brother who saved him last time

Tyrion still considers bronn a friend

Danny can't trust tyrion if he won't put them to death

But she also knows he is valuable in the wars to come

Hey they have an extra boat

Take the black and ill spare your lives.  Go to the wall and bring your valerian Valeria to the front Valeria, and bring the dragon glass from dragon stone to where the dragons aren't because Valeria and dragon but first bend the knee to the king of the north who needs men almost as badly as he wants Jamie dead

 

[kentric]

Somebody joked (maybe Floppo), and I had the same thought, that Dany's first pass with the dragon basically just opened up a small lane in the spear wall and the Dothraki still just slammed into in and died by the bunches.  Doesn't seem like a great strategy, but you know - 1. drama and 2. if she did that we wouldn't get to the the Dothraki in action. 

Maybe she felt they needed a battle.  They are an aggressive bunch and need to have some fun once in a while.

Great time to use them.  Against a non-mobile army in the field.  They can't be very good city fighters (relatively speaking).

I thought that there were a few great scenes with them, like when they were shooting standing up on their horses.  Very entertaining.

 

[Mavis]

I think it was more like:

WHAT?!?!?

Oh heeeell no!

Hold up...

Huh??

Oh... Okay 

In all seriousness, don't know another person who could "slay" that role like he does. He has done it fantastically and does not get the credit he deserves as an actor. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

Danny captures Jamie and bronn

Danny says hey tyrion if you're so anti lanister tell me what to do with Jamie  and bronn

Tyrion can't say kill Jamie because that's his brother who saved him last time

Tyrion still considers bronn a friend

Danny can't trust tyrion if he won't put them to death

But she also knows he is valuable in the wars to come

Hey they have an extra boat

Take the black and ill spare your lives.  Go to the wall and bring your valerian Valeria to the front Valeria, and bring the dragon glass from dragon stone to where the dragons aren't because Valeria and dragon but first bend the knee to the king of the north who needs men almost as badly as he wants Jamie dead

He meets Gendry on the open sea and Gendry makes all the Dragonglass weapons for them using his amazing smithing abilities!!

 

[Mavis]

Maybe she felt they needed a battle.  They are an aggressive bunch and need to have some fun once in a while.

Great time to use them.  Against a non-mobile army in the field.  They can't be very good city fighters (relatively speaking).

I thought that there were a few great scenes with them, like when they were shooting standing up on their horses.  Very entertaining.

Lots of people died in every war back then, its how war were fought. Who ever killed the other guys first, you won. 

Old time wars strategies that i read about historically that have tales of real life...

I expect lots of people to die in the battle, part of the strategy is take the spears with the horses instead of the warriors. The weight in the momentum of the horse into a person just standing does some damage. No one is staying standing even with a spear after a horse charges them. 

Now this TV show doesnt maybe resemble that, but thats how it worked in that strategy. 

 

[Jeremy]

Maybe the plot twist for the next episode is that Jamie really DID drown.  He was pretty deep underwater still wearing armor that will be difficult to remove with one hand.  Maybe they just wanted to preserve his body so Tyrion could weep over it.  Otherwise there is nothing left but ashes. 

 

[Mile High]

I don't think she lost that many troops, they ran right threw the Lannisters. Also she was killing troops while she was going down the road burning everything in her path. So what kind of army does Cersei have left at this point?

 

[bostonfred]

He meets Gendry on the open sea and Gendry makes all the Dragonglass weapons for them using his amazing smithing abilities!!

This would be awesome

 

[kentric]

Lots of people died in every war back then, its how war were fought. Who ever killed the other guys first, you won. 

Old time wars strategies that i read about historically that have tales of real life...

I expect lots of people to die in the battle, part of the strategy is take the spears with the horses instead of the warriors. The weight in the momentum of the horse into a person just standing does some damage. No one is staying standing even with a spear after a horse charges them. 

Now this TV show doesnt maybe resemble that, but thats how it worked in that strategy. 

While the strategy of burning a hole through the defending army was sound, its execution wasn't that great.  The hole the dragon made in the line was rather limited at first but it was sure fun to watch the Dothraki pour through it.  

 

[kentric]

I don't think she lost that many troops, they ran right threw the Lannisters. Also she was killing troops while she was going down the road burning everything in her path. So what kind of army does Cersei have left at this point?

Still not sure why she would do this.  One of the things they needed was the food/resources in those wagons.  To burn so many to the ground seemed counterintuitive.  It would be a minor cleanup for the Dothraki to take out the wagon guards.

 

[shadyridr]

I don't think she lost that many troops, they ran right threw the Lannisters. Also she was killing troops while she was going down the road burning everything in her path. So what kind of army does Cersei have left at this point?

How many in Kings Landing?

 

[Mile High]

Still not sure why she would do this.  One of the things they needed was the food/resources in those wagons.  To burn so many to the ground seemed counterintuitive.  It would be a minor cleanup for the Dothraki to take out the wagon guards.

Agree. Made no sense. 

 

[packersfan]

In all seriousness, don't know another person who could "slay" that role like he does. He has done it fantastically and does not get the credit he deserves as an actor. 

Absolutely. His character arc since the beginning of the series has been terrific. 

 

[Mile High]

How many in Kings Landing?

Is that it? Can't be many. I think the iron bank won't be so sure of backing her now after this ### kicking. Who's going to be willing to join her and get burned alive?

 

[KarmaPolice]

I don't think she lost that many troops, they ran right threw the Lannisters. Also she was killing troops while she was going down the road burning everything in her path. So what kind of army does Cersei have left at this point?

Not many, but she was talking to the banker about the Gold Troops, or whatever they are called.  However...

1.  Some people don't think the gold reached home

2.  Even if it did, they might not be so willing to back her after this epic loss.  They could take their gold they are owed and leave her as is. 

 

[Mavis]

Absolutely. His character arc since the beginning of the series has been terrific. 

Remember when he was a prisoner, his reaction to his hand being cut off was astounding. Hard to do that seen without appearing fake. 

He is rewarded with nude scenes with Lena Headey, so thats a nice pay back. 

 

[Sinn Fein]

Maybe the plot twist for the next episode is that Jamie really DID drown.  He was pretty deep underwater still wearing armor that will be difficult to remove with one hand.  Maybe they just wanted to preserve his body so Tyrion could weep over it.  Otherwise there is nothing left but ashes. 

Maybe then Cersei will drown in her tears, and Tyrion will choke the life out of her...

 

[matuski]

I thought it was a fantastic episode.  The fight scene with the Dothraki was awesome (production value a hell of a lot better than the Iron Islands naval battle - although it could have been on a grander scale).  One of their best episodes for me.  The scenes surrounding the dragon (and its aftermath) were great IMO.

A few points:

• Dany needs to know when to back out of a fight.  That one ballista shot went right past her head.  It was a mop-up operation at that point and she should have just done a skeedaddle.
  
• Dany.  Your troops are going to need that food you're burning to a crisp
  
• Someone needs to teach the Dothraki to do a better job of cutting off the head (put more emphasis of knocking off the leaders).
  

The monday morning couch dragon generals are my favorite thing in this thread.

 

[bostonfred]

Hey Jon

 

[NewlyRetired]

I had this weird feeling that when Jamie was charging Dany he was going to throw his spear down and help her get the spike out and use that as the moment he switches sides.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Has to be Bronn.  Drogon landed by the crossbow thing,it shows him smashing it with his tail, so Bronn was right there.

Drogon torched the scorpion (crossbow thing) with fire right after he got shot in the neck.  It was just a random wagon that he smashed with his tail.

 

[KarmaPolice]

The monday morning couch dragon generals are my favorite thing in this thread.

Hey, these unrealistic battle tactics are taking me out of this show with ice zombies and smoke babies.  It needs to stop. 

 

[Koya]

Yeah, for a bad ### assassin, she is sure advertising that she is a bad ### assassin a lot. \

One of the perspectives I really like about GoT is that it does not allow characters to forget who they are, or once were. Within us, there are innate drives, coping mechanisms, behaviors, that have been fostered during out core formative years.  We may be 20, 50, 80, but in a way we still have connections to that inner being, and it sometimes shows in how we act, especially within a certain context.

When is the last time we saw Arya, playing/training with weapons in the Courtyard, her sister and others watching... it's her chance to be the precocious 8 year old kid out dueling her brother, shocking people as to her skills and ability, simultaneously upending the family order of her being the youngest, always the child, and the expectations of who and what she should be, as a result.

I found that scene as Arya as anything we've seen. It is who and what she is, at heart... from the very first scenes of the film. A direct connection with the introductory, foundation-building episodes before we knew where any of this would go. All we knew was that this Ned guy had to be in for a good long run in his character on this new TV show with a huge budget, cool fight scenes and plenty of male-friendly soap operatic dialogue and ennui (ok, I just wanted to say ennui, but it's as good as anything I suppose). 

 

[Sinn Fein]

I found that scene as Arya as anything we've seen. It is who and what she is, at heart... from the very first scenes of the film. A direct connection with the introductory, foundation-building episodes before we knew where any of this would go. 

That was the first time in the series, where I thought "I can see a future for Arya."  She has become what she always wanted to be - and she is pretty good at it.

Of course, now she'll probably be dead by the end of the season.

 

[Ilov80s]

One of the perspectives I really like about GoT is that it does not allow characters to forget who they are, or once were. Within us, there are innate drives, coping mechanisms, behaviors, that have been fostered during out core formative years.  We may be 20, 50, 80, but in a way we still have connections to that inner being, and it sometimes shows in how we act, especially within a certain context.

When is the last time we saw Arya, playing/training with weapons in the Courtyard, her sister and others watching... it's her chance to be the precocious 8 year old kid out dueling her brother, shocking people as to her skills and ability, simultaneously upending the family order of her being the youngest, always the child, and the expectations of who and what she should be, as a result.

I found that scene as Arya as anything we've seen. It is who and what she is, at heart... from the very first scenes of the film. A direct connection with the introductory, foundation-building episodes before we knew where any of this would go. All we knew was that this Ned guy had to be in for a good long run in his character on this new TV show with a huge budget, cool fight scenes and plenty of male-friendly soap operatic dialogue and ennui (ok, I just wanted to say ennui, but it's as good as anything I suppose). 

In some ways, Bran is the only one that really changed. Arya tried to become nobody, but she couldn't. A girl has a name, Arya Stark. Sansa is the the noble leader of House Stark that she was aways groomed to be. Jon is still moody, brooding and seemingly always an outsider- even when he is the Lord Commander or King of the North. 

 

[Sabertooth]

In some ways, Bran is the only one that really changed. Arya tried to become nobody, but she couldn't. A girl has a name, Arya Stark. Sansa is the the noble leader of House Stark that she was aways groomed to be. Jon is still the moody, brooding and seemingly always an outsider- even when he is the Lord Commander or King of the North. 

And Rickon always sucked at tag.  Straight liner every time.  

In the books it was mentioned a lot about how Bran loved to climb, and then of course he saw things.  

 

[FreeBaGeL]

They're definitely playing on a Dany can't trust Tyrion angle. First Olenna tells Dany not to listen to him and then last night Dany goes off on Tyrion (pretty harsh in my opinion) and questions his loyalty. How that will manifest itself remains to be seen but it's clearly part of the storyline right now. 

I don't think it was harsh at all.  All of his advice has worked out terribly, conveniently while fighting against his family (whom he says he hates, but that's all Khaleesi has to go on with his relationship with his family).  We know that that Cersei/Jamie were able to predict his moves because of what they know about him, but from Dany's point of view we have a guy giving advice on how to fight against his family and that family magically knows all of their troop movements and takes out half her army in transit.  It makes a lot of sense for her to be questioning that.

 

[Koya]

That was tremendous TV... Just great story telling.  You have a fairly slow 40 minutes and the BAMMM... #### hits the fan.

I didn't find the first two thirds slow at all. In fact, it made me further lament the weak 2nd episode this season even more Very similar in purpose. A lot of major plots moving forward/coming together.  Scenes with heavyweights of heavyweights together for the first times. 

Unlike a couple episodes ago, there was tension, pressure, intrigue.  I noticed the often applauded presence of great subtle scoring with exceptional cinematography and visuals. The dialogue had significant impact but was in no way canned nor forced.  It was pretty awesome overall. Suddenly I noticed we were over a half hour in, not "much" had happened and yet so much had... and I was riveted understanding this was very much a prelude and set up to these final stages.

FYI, big missed opportunity to not have a clear death before the episodes or at its end.  Would be just as good to have some intruigue and drama about the aftermath as opposed to using Jamie's still living presence to act as an emotional wedge and plot driver re: relationships with Tywin, MoD, Bronn etc.

BTW, my wife now HATES Bronn.  So angry he'd kill a cute little dragon.  Funny thing is as he was setting up the weapon, I said aloud, oh, this is going to get some people really amped for Bronn (good to see his not exactly stellar soul back in the fire f'n shizz up) and a contingent of Dany-fan boys and fangirls who will now hate him.  On cue, wifey became the latter. 

 

[bigmarc27]

Sucks that we're over the halfway point of the season...  I really think a lot of the complaints about teleporting would be gone had they went with a normal 10 episode season. They could have let things breathe a little more and I think there's plenty of meat on the bone. 

I dont have a problem with the season, just want more.