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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (16 Viewers)

Waingro said:
Interesting episode title: The Last Stark

Jon is a Targaryen, Arya is no one, and Bran is a bird. 

Leaving Sansa as the last remaining Stark. 
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not only is she the last Stark, she will be the last Stark. Bran ain't having any kids, and there are no more male Starks. their line is done.

 
beer 30 said:
Jon is half Stark, that gives him some say in all of this I would think.
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Daddy was a Targ, so Jon is officially a Targ. Either that or he somehow gets his lineage back under wraps (everyone who knows dies) and he goes back to the legitimized ******* son of Ned Stark story.

 
What drew me to the show was the absolute fearlessness in killing of main characters.....it's what set the show apart.....now we have a core group of important characters that have survived several impossible situations.....it really has hurt the show and makes me wonder if they want to preserve most of the core for a Hollywood ending for more spin offs and shows in the future.  I hope that's not true and they'll return to their roots the last 2 episode.  

As for the Lost comparisons - I agree to a certain extent.  I personally liked lost and understood that there were a lot of things they just weren't going to wrap up and/or explain....I am expecting the same here.  

 
Kiddnets said:
What drew me to the show was the absolute fearlessness in killing of main characters.....it's what set the show apart.....now we have a core group of important characters that have survived several impossible situations.....it really has hurt the show and makes me wonder if they want to preserve most of the core for a Hollywood ending for more spin offs and shows in the future.  I hope that's not true and they'll return to their roots the last 2 episode.  

As for the Lost comparisons - I agree to a certain extent.  I personally liked lost and understood that there were a lot of things they just weren't going to wrap up and/or explain....I am expecting the same here.  
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I'm expecting some major character deaths in the next 2. They don't do that, they'll have botched the ending IMO.

 
It was supposedly a dark 'n tear jerking season.  Not dark as in your television screen.  I'd like to believe that's still to come, so that's what I'll believe.

 
Zow said:
I thought the show actually did a pretty good job giving appropriate background to Ramsey. Euron, not so much. As Bob Sac mentioned above, and from what I've heard from other sources, Euron is a much bigger deal in the books and so the notion of him taking down a dragon isn't a huge stretch.  It's just us show viewers weren't given anything other than the initial fratricide. I don't see why Euron couldn't have had some scene in Essos when Dany was over there or been referenced to or something. 
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Eurons death will be the only thing good about his character.   He's the worst villain  the show has made.  

 
Kiddnets said:
What drew me to the show was the absolute fearlessness in killing of main characters.....it's what set the show apart.....now we have a core group of important characters that have survived several impossible situations.....it really has hurt the show and makes me wonder if they want to preserve most of the core for a Hollywood ending for more spin offs and shows in the future.  I hope that's not true and they'll return to their roots the last 2 episode.  

As for the Lost comparisons - I agree to a certain extent.  I personally liked lost and understood that there were a lot of things they just weren't going to wrap up and/or explain....I am expecting the same here.  
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I don't think it's about preserving the core for a Hollywood ending.  Martin pretty much came out after the fact and said that from the get go.... Dany/Tyrion/Arya/Sansa and Jon were the main characters and weren't going to die.   

 
I think the "Bran being used as a scout/spy" is a bit overdone.  If there's one thing Bran has continually beat us over the head with....it's that he doesn't really care to influence any of the comings and goings of Westeros anymore.  He's just the chronologist.

 
Thunderlips said:
I think the "Bran being used as a scout/spy" is a bit overdone.  If there's one thing Bran has continually beat us over the head with....it's that he doesn't really care to influence any of the comings and goings of Westeros anymore.  He's just the chronologist.
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There is no reason that he would want Jon to know his true lineage if that was the case. Bran knows enough history that if there is conflict over a claim that violence arises from it. 

 
Thunderlips said:
I think the "Bran being used as a scout/spy" is a bit overdone.  If there's one thing Bran has continually beat us over the head with....it's that he doesn't really care to influence any of the comings and goings of Westeros anymore.  He's just the chronologist.
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If that were true, he never would've said anything about who Jon's parents were. :shrug:

 
Since the idea of spin-offs has been mentioned, I thought of a sort-of spin off that's practically begging to be done: a Golden Girls remake with Gwendolyn Christie as Dorothy (Bea Arthur's role), Lena Heady as Blanche (Rue McLanahan's role), Carice Van Houten as Rose (Betty White's role) and Diana Rigg as Sophia (Estelle Getty's role), and since Empty Nest spun off of Golden Girls, remake that as well with Liam Cunningham (Davos) in the lead, with Sophie Turner and Maisie Williams as his daughters. 

 
On the surprise naval attack of Euron.

Someone posted that we are made to believe, basically, that the scorpions took out the whole Dany fleet, that Eurons ships started from a dead stop to overtake Dany and that Miss Sandy couldn't have survived to be captured in a sinking ship if she was down below when it started sinking.  I think there were a few others.

On Dany not circling around to burn them.... I agree that "could" have happened.  I would have even enjoyed more than what happened.  But she decided to get safe instead of putting herself in danger again, and Drogo with her.  I can buy that enough to not be annoyed like some people.

But as for the statement that the scorpions took down the whole fleet - we don't see that.  What we see is that the main ship with Tyrion takes a crap ton of top damage a couple bolts through the belly but what we are expressly shown is the mast, possibly the main mast, collapsing.  That ship wasn't sinking, but it was dead in the water when that happened.  We don't see the scorpions hit any other ships.  For all we know, Euron's fleet simply beat them ship to ship.

And that is because we are also clearly shown Dany's ships anchor and raise their sails.  They would need time to get underway with any speed in the face of an oncoming fleet.  And Euron's ships were moving from the get go.  You can argue that he timed the movement too perfectly, but his ships were already moving towards the fleet from their hiding spot as he was firing at the dragons.  

So you have one ship take top heavy and fatal mast damage, and the rest of the fleet anchored while the best naval commander in the world was baring down on them in a surprise attack.  Frankly, the fact that Euron wiped the floor with them shouldn't be too hard to accept.

And if Dany is actually turning heel then her flying away instead of making a straffing run actually fits that mentality.  

I think the whole "she should have seen him," argument is a good one though.  She simply wasn't paying attention.  She isn't as good at this as she thinks she is.

JMHO.

 
Lots of complaining about Bran. Just a reminder that Bran's training as the 3ER was interrupted. He said so one epiosde - that he's still trying to control it. Also, if I remember correctly, his wargs (Hodor and ravens) were in times of extreme stress. His history visions have mostly come as guided by the previous 3ER. Only one I can think of since old 3ER is the 'chaos is a ladder' comment which was nice shock value for the show and who knows when he actually went back and saw that. I don't think he's as all-powerful as some think. He's still harnessing his gift and knew he was good bait.

ETA: Bran told Jon because he wants the truth to be known. Doesn't need a motive. 3ER wants people to understand and know the past and the truth. 

 
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Good Posting Judge said:
If that were true, he never would've said anything about who Jon's parents were. :shrug:
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This is sort of why Bran’s character is a mess. The show has beat us over the head with the fact that he doesn’t identify as a Stark anymore, so presumably he told Jon so Jon could advance his claim for some reason, and not as a result of familial affection. And if that’s the case, why does he want Jon to pursue his claim? And why isn’t he doing anything else (that we know of at least) to help the cause?  I’m guessing the show doesn’t want to answer any of the dozens of reasonable Bran-related questions, and will be sidelining him for the duration. 

 
beer 30 said:
Still scratching my head on this as well. Aside from Jon & a dragon, you wipe out about half of the enemies marching on your castle to unseat you. Strategically it makes no sense to let them walk and it also goes against Cersei's character.

So what do you think it looked like after Missandi lost her mind? Picture it, Tyrion shrugs his shoulders, shakes his head and walks back to Dany & crew? They all kinda mill around a little not making eye contact with Greyworm and then just slowly disperse? Didn't sit well with me either. A better ending to the show would have been to take Tyrion out as well. Turn the little ####er into a pincushion right after Missandi. Now THAT would be GoT of old.

Well they kinda are. GRRM bailed so they are playing out the string. That spoof video posted earlier about Dany kinda sorta forgetting about the magically rebuilding Iron Fleet was perfect. I don't feel like that happens in the books...if they existed of course.
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Link which video is that?

 
Yankee23Fan said:
On the surprise naval attack of Euron.

Someone posted that we are made to believe, basically, that the scorpions took out the whole Dany fleet, that Eurons ships started from a dead stop to overtake Dany and that Miss Sandy couldn't have survived to be captured in a sinking ship if she was down below when it started sinking.  I think there were a few others.

On Dany not circling around to burn them.... I agree that "could" have happened.  I would have even enjoyed more than what happened.  But she decided to get safe instead of putting herself in danger again, and Drogo with her.  I can buy that enough to not be annoyed like some people.

But as for the statement that the scorpions took down the whole fleet - we don't see that.  What we see is that the main ship with Tyrion takes a crap ton of top damage a couple bolts through the belly but what we are expressly shown is the mast, possibly the main mast, collapsing.  That ship wasn't sinking, but it was dead in the water when that happened.  We don't see the scorpions hit any other ships.  For all we know, Euron's fleet simply beat them ship to ship.

And that is because we are also clearly shown Dany's ships anchor and raise their sails.  They would need time to get underway with any speed in the face of an oncoming fleet.  And Euron's ships were moving from the get go.  You can argue that he timed the movement too perfectly, but his ships were already moving towards the fleet from their hiding spot as he was firing at the dragons.  

So you have one ship take top heavy and fatal mast damage, and the rest of the fleet anchored while the best naval commander in the world was baring down on them in a surprise attack.  Frankly, the fact that Euron wiped the floor with them shouldn't be too hard to accept.

And if Dany is actually turning heel then her flying away instead of making a straffing run actually fits that mentality.  

I think the whole "she should have seen him," argument is a good one though.  She simply wasn't paying attention.  She isn't as good at this as she thinks she is.

JMHO.
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that last bolded bit is my main point. a small armada of ships under full sail... she doesn't have to be as good as she thinks she is- no way they see her first... or at least, no way she doesn't see them in time to react. 

and I'd have to watch again, but I thought they showed those anchored boats essentially sunk in the harbor as all the unsullied and allies pull themselves onto the beach. 

speaking of... you're-on has them dead-to-rights with the dragon and dany on the run... he just leaves and doesn't take out the rest of the fleet with those semi-automatic ballistas? and they all just are free to go from Dragon Stone to KL at some point not much later? or am I misremembering that dragonstone is an island?

 
Yara is my betting favorite to take out Euron. She'll even out the naval battle.

Cersei couldn't attack at that moment as the dragon would roast oncoming soldiers as long as out of range of castle and naval scorpions. They are at a standoff until usurpers decide to advance or all dragons dead, imo.

Lots of complaining without thinking.

And the unbelievable level of scrutiny is mind-boggling, acting like show was so much better before off GRRMs script. Uh. No. You could nitpick all the old seasons as well. Why would Olenna put the poison in Sansa's necklace? So many better options to ensure Joff drinks it! Stannis sailed ALL his boats into one harbor?! Endless examples could be given.....  Why would Ned tell Cersei he's going to rat her out?! He'd tell his best friend first! People make mistakes. Hindsight is 20/20. Real life commanders didn't have perfect battle strategies either. 

 
Bobcat10 said:
It was supposedly a dark 'n tear jerking season.  Not dark as in your television screen.  I'd like to believe that's still to come, so that's what I'll believe.
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They gotta kill these ####ers at some point! I hope it doesn't build to the last episode but it's certainly looking that way. Missandi was a bit player, still think Cersei offing Tyrion at the end of the episode would have been a perfect ending.

Yankee23Fan said:
JMHO.
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Because you wrote a lot of words, accept my like :thumbup:

 
MikeMan said:
Yara is my betting favorite to take out Euron. She'll even out the naval battle.

Cersei couldn't attack at that moment as the dragon would roast oncoming soldiers as long as out of range of castle and naval scorpions. They are at a standoff until usurpers decide to advance or all dragons dead, imo.

Lots of complaining without thinking.

And the unbelievable level of scrutiny is mind-boggling, acting like show was so much better before off GRRMs script. Uh. No. You could nitpick all the old seasons as well. Why would Olenna put the poison in Sansa's necklace? So many better options to ensure Joff drinks it! Stannis sailed ALL his boats into one harbor?! Endless examples could be given.....  Why would Ned tell Cersei he's going to rat her out?! He'd tell his best friend first! People make mistakes. Hindsight is 20/20. Real life commanders didn't have perfect battle strategies either. 
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His best friend was out hunting boar while Ned was recuperating from a broken leg, also he suffered from a ridiculous commitment to honor, and he knew what would happen to her and her kids when Robert found out the truth - so he was giving her a chance to leave before that happened. Olenna puts the poison in Sansa's necklace so Sansa would take the fall if things went wrong. There wasn't some other harbor to sail boats into at King's Landing.

Yes, Martin's writing is a zillion times better than what's come since. It's not even close, even with his pension for describing meals.

 
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MikeMan said:
Yara is my betting favorite to take out Euron. She'll even out the naval battle.

Cersei couldn't attack at that moment as the dragon would roast oncoming soldiers as long as out of range of castle and naval scorpions. They are at a standoff until usurpers decide to advance or all dragons dead, imo.

Lots of complaining without thinking.

And the unbelievable level of scrutiny is mind-boggling, acting like show was so much better before off GRRMs script. Uh. No. You could nitpick all the old seasons as well. Why would Olenna put the poison in Sansa's necklace? So many better options to ensure Joff drinks it! Stannis sailed ALL his boats into one harbor?! Endless examples could be given.....  Why would Ned tell Cersei he's going to rat her out?! He'd tell his best friend first! People make mistakes. Hindsight is 20/20. Real life commanders didn't have perfect battle strategies either. 
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:hifive:  

As you said lots of complaining without thinking and likely because they are not getting what they had lined out in their head. 

 
MikeMan said:
Yara is my betting favorite to take out Euron. She'll even out the naval battle.

Cersei couldn't attack at that moment as the dragon would roast oncoming soldiers as long as out of range of castle and naval scorpions. They are at a standoff until usurpers decide to advance or all dragons dead, imo.

Lots of complaining without thinking.

And the unbelievable level of scrutiny is mind-boggling, acting like show was so much better before off GRRMs script. Uh. No. You could nitpick all the old seasons as well. Why would Olenna put the poison in Sansa's necklace? So many better options to ensure Joff drinks it! Stannis sailed ALL his boats into one harbor?! Endless examples could be given.....  Why would Ned tell Cersei he's going to rat her out?! He'd tell his best friend first! People make mistakes. Hindsight is 20/20. Real life commanders didn't have perfect battle strategies either. 
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I agree about a lot of prevous stuff being a bit of a stretch, and we're all looking back with rosey glasses.

that said- they just showed the dragon as being out-ranged by those scorpions when dany was flying at urine... so, cersei could've taken out that entire "army" of 20 or so people with regular arrows or ground troops, and then gone after the dragon with the scorpions if it went airborne.

range seems to be at the scorpion's advantage, not the dragon's. only way to erase that advantage is to attack at night with the dragon- take out the scorpions first, and then attack in earnest.

 
Gr00vus said:
His best friend was out hunting boar while Ned was recuperating from a broken leg, also he suffered from a ridiculous commitment to honor, and he knew what would happen to her and her kids when Robert found out the truth - so he was giving her a chance to leave before that happened. Olenna puts the poison in Sansa's necklace so Sansa would take the fall if things went wrong. There wasn't some other harbor to sail boats into at King's Landing.

Yes, Martin's writing is a zillion times better than what's come since. It's not even close, even with his pension for describing meals.
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I don't pay attention to the geographic details... but if that's the case, where did dany and co. sail into before the me-so-sandy decap... the main harbor at KL?

 
El Floppo said:
I don't pay attention to the geographic details... but if that's the case, where did dany and co. sail into before the me-so-sandy decap... the main harbor at KL?
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I have absolutely no clue how they got from Dragonstone (assuming that's where they ended up after Euron's ambush) down to King's Landing. Maybe they shipwrecked somewhere on the coast of the mainland rather than Dragonstone and marched. Blackwater bay is pretty big, King's Landing is only one port on it.

Here's a decent interactive map of Westeros.

 
El Floppo said:
I agree about a lot of prevous stuff being a bit of a stretch, and we're all looking back with rosey glasses.

that said- they just showed the dragon as being out-ranged by those scorpions when dany was flying at urine... so, cersei could've taken out that entire "army" of 20 or so people with regular arrows or ground troops, and then gone after the dragon with the scorpions if it went airborne.

range seems to be at the scorpion's advantage, not the dragon's. only way to erase that advantage is to attack at night with the dragon- take out the scorpions first, and then attack in earnest.
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I agree. Just saying that, as we stand right now, people are complaining Cersei can take them out. I don't think so.  If scorpion range is X, then Dany&Co, are standing at least X+1 away.  Neither side can get to each other, which is also why they were able to have the convo anyway.  If soldiers march towards Dany....s'mores!  Neither side can attack pending, like you said, a night attack, more forces, or slowly rolling scorpions closer to Dany.

Jon shows up. Yara shows up.  And we should have a slobberknocker next week!

 
If Euron was so easily able to fire three ballista arrows at Rhaegal before Dany had any clue what was happening, then he should have had all the ships fire at both dragons at the same time.  He took out one by himself, surely the dozen other ships could have ganged up on Drogon.  Euron ain’t so smart either...

 
wlwiles said:
If Euron was so easily able to fire three ballista arrows at Rhaegal before Dany had any clue what was happening, then he should have had all the ships fire at both dragons at the same time.  He took out one by himself, surely the dozen other ships could have ganged up on Drogon.  Euron ain’t so smart either...
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Killing all the dragons would make for far less interesting finale though. This isn't a documentary on battle techniques. It is a ####### show about zombies and dragons

 
The final book in the series was supposed to be "A Dream of Spring"  - it looks like we will get that entire book in the final 2 episodes...

 
Gr00vus said:
I have absolutely no clue how they got from Dragonstone (assuming that's where they ended up after Euron's ambush) down to King's Landing. Maybe they shipwrecked somewhere on the coast of the mainland rather than Dragonstone and marched. Blackwater bay is pretty big, King's Landing is only one port on it.

Here's a decent interactive map of Westeros.
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Because Westeros isn't a real place.

 
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