What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (3 Viewers)

-fish- said:
The war of the five kings may have happened anyway after Arryn's investigation and Stannis learning that Cersei's children weren't Robert's, but I wasn't talking about his role as a plot device, but as a character.   

As a character, Bran may have well been an inanimate object.   He, personally, does nothing and accomplishes nothing in the show other than being bait for the NK.   Pretty much the most impact he had through his own actions was creating Hodor.
Click to expand...
which is not going to be consistent with the books.  I mean, the very first chapter that GRRM wrote was from Bran's perspective and was when the found the direwolf pups -- that chapter literally was the inspiration for the entire series.  

 
bostonfred said:
This is the war to end all wars. Kings landing is the metaphorical Hiroshima and after years of world war she flew in from another continent and rained fire on one city to ensure that a tyrant never ruled again.  Peace through superior firepower.  
Click to expand...
The Last War...

Again, the show has been straight forward with everything it's done and even telegraphed a good portion of the major plot twists.

Dickies said:
He is talking about the battle in episode 3.
Click to expand...
Forget it, he's rolling...

 
Capella said:
That is a pretty important role wouldn’t you say?
Click to expand...
Not really.   Since it's just a plot device, it could have been done through Sam discovering this information at the Citadel, Ned making a deathbed confession, etc.   

Bran is a catalyst for a lot of actions...without Littlefinger lying about Tyrion being behind the assassination, Catelyn doesn't arrest Tyrion, causing the Lannisters to attack the Riverlands...the Hound doesn't fight Beric, etc...  But Bran, himself, with all of his mystical abilities, does essentially nothing in the show except have Jaime, the catspaw and the Night King try to kill him.   

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
which is not going to be consistent with the books.  I mean, the very first chapter that GRRM wrote was from Bran's perspective and was when the found the direwolf pups -- that chapter literally was the inspiration for the entire series.  
Click to expand...
Bran doesn't have any different role in the books.   He's still just a plot device.   Maybe the three-eyed raven stuff was going to head somewhere.   

 
-fish- said:
Bran doesn't have any different role in the books.   He's still just a plot device.   Maybe the three-eyed raven stuff was going to head somewhere.   
Click to expand...
Well that is what I am saying.  The three eyed raven stuff will be a bigger deal as will his relationship with the Reeds I think.  But I need to re-read them all.

 
-fish- said:
Not really.   Since it's just a plot device, it could have been done through Sam discovering this information at the Citadel, Ned making a deathbed confession, etc.   

Bran is a catalyst for a lot of actions...without Littlefinger lying about Tyrion being behind the assassination, Catelyn doesn't arrest Tyrion, causing the Lannisters to attack the Riverlands...the Hound doesn't fight Beric, etc...  But Bran, himself, with all of his mystical abilities, does essentially nothing in the show except have Jaime, the catspaw and the Night King try to kill him.   
Click to expand...
Literally everything on the show is a plot device. 

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Well that is what I am saying.  The three eyed raven stuff will be a bigger deal as will his relationship with the Reeds I think.  But I need to re-read them all.
Click to expand...
Since GRRM is never going to finish the books, I doubt we'll ever know.   They sure didn't do much with it in the show.   

 
Capella said:
Literally everything on the show is a plot device. 
Click to expand...
Some characters actually developed and had an affirmative impact on the events around them.   Jon grew and became a leader.  Dany went from enslaved little sister to crazy murderous dragon lady.   Cersei went berserk because of Maggie the Frog's (incorrect) prophecy and her blind devotion to her kids.

Bran could have been replaced by a sack of potatoes that had "Bran" written on it in sharpie.  

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
And that all would have been fine, had she done it BEFORE the surrender.  
Click to expand...
AFTER the surrender, there is still one huge issue that she has to deal with. She has no claim to the throne and virtually no allies. The only way to win this game is to send a message. Killing upwards of a million people certainly sends that message. "Let it be fear."

 
bostonfred said:
When she said "all right then, let it be fear", she had exhausted all other options. There was no other option that allowed her to be queen. That was the threat, writ large by everyone around her betraying her in her final hour.
Click to expand...
This just isn't true. If she truly feels that threatened by Jon - she could've just had him killed in the battle - either one, or on the trip south, or ordered the execution herself for betrayal - then she is queen by right and by conquest. That is one "innocent" death instead of thousands. People *already* fear her. She is probably the most feared person in the world. She has a huge army and a dragon. She has laid waste to armies, fleets, undead, etc. etc.. Cersei already poisoned the well/planted the seed and told the people they should fear her because she would kill everyone - but that doesn't justify the *actual* flip to start torching KL after the battle was won and the bells were ringing. We saw the Lannister men throw down their swords *because* they feared her. Again, I have no problem with her going mad, however, the execution of it was piss poor and nonsensical. The writers lost their way without GRRM. They knew where they needed to end up but didn't have the chops to get there in a way that made sense. 

 
-fish- said:
Some characters actually developed and had an affirmative impact on the events around them.   Jon grew and became a leader.  Dany went from enslaved little sister to crazy murderous dragon lady.   Cersei went berserk because of Maggie the Frog's (incorrect) prophecy and her blind devotion to her kids.

Bran could have been replaced by a sack of potatoes that had "Bran" written on it in sharpie.  
Click to expand...
Not every character can be given a huge arc. People’s expectation of Bran being some kind of superhero is ridiculous. They have never demonstrated him to be anything other than what he is. The only problem with his story is the viewer’s expectations. When has he done anything other than sat in his chair and looked like a creep? Why do you expect more? 

 
Nathan R. Jessep said:
I think the declining scores are just because more and more people are having their theories squashed the further in we get  :lol:  Stand by for a record low when it's something nobody predicted for the ending. 
Click to expand...
No, it is because they decided to run a short season which has obviously been detrimental to the story telling. This is supposed to be the capstone on one of the greatest shows ever but it is so rushed it is like a Cliffs Notes version.

 
All I know is on Sunday I’m going to fill the fridge with craft brew, eat a steak dinner, get stoned like a college kid and settle in for the end of an excellent show. I’m not writing it. It’s not my job. Kudos to these folks for what they have made, missteps and all. 

 
Sinn Fein said:
I've seen it.  Several times.  It was definitely ashes.

It looked like snow.  At the time "Winter was Coming" so snow made sense.  But it was Ashes.
Click to expand...
most definitely ashes ... think what threw folks the most was that in that sequence she walked directly from the Iron Throne remnants straight through the gate of the Wall, into the snowy 'scape of the far North. 

 
bostonfred said:
When she said "all right then, let it be fear", she had exhausted all other options. There was no other option that allowed her to be queen. That was the threat, writ large by everyone around her betraying her in her final hour.
Click to expand...
Dan and David explicitly stated she hadn't made up her mind to systematically torch the streets of King's Landing until the bells started ringing.

It was a very poor writing decision for a very great moment.

 
Godsbrother said:
Great write up but in the end the crown was more important to her than thousands of innocent people's lives.  She is no better than her father and brother.
Click to expand...
She had the crown without killing thousands of innocents.  She did it for sport.  

I agree with Fred’s write up to explain why she decided she had to take the crown by force.  For me, it does not explain why she decided to kill thousands of innocents after she had the crown.  

 
Worm said:
The only character not currently in King's Landing that we possibly see in the finale is Sansa imo.

I think Bran's story line was done once the NK died. I think the rest of the characters at Winterfell (Brienne, Tormund, etc) had their goodbye. I don't see a need for the Iron Island army, so Yara probably not going to show up either. Sansa is the wildcard.
Click to expand...
If we see Sansa, Brienne will be on the screen.

Maybe Brienne becomes Queenslayer.

 
KarmaPolice said:
Just took a peek at RT and this season is the only score not in the 90%+ range, and each episode's score have gotten worse. 

The Episode scores in order go: 92-88-75-57-48
Click to expand...
general fan reactions:

e1. 92 = omg, I'm so happy GOT is back!!!
e2. 88 = good, but too much talking and not enough action
e3. 75 = pretty good, but Jon should have been the one to kill the NK
e4. 57 = I can't believe they killed a dragon so easily and stupidly!
e5. 48 = #TeamDany mad af

 
bostonfred said:
But that's the whole point.  She was threatened.  It's not just the mad queen thing where she suddenly went insane and started killing people.  She was about to lose the throne to jon snow and there was nothing she could do to stop it.

The moment jon told her about his lineage, she immediately realized that she was going to lose the throne to him, even though he said he didn't want it. 

She begged him not to tell anyone.  She told him what would happen if he did.  Bran said hey this is your choice.  He told sansa and arya anyways. 

She tried to get him to marry her.  Is that all i am to you?  Your queen?  He refused.  

Her whole story is her ascension from the property of her brother whose only attributes were her t&a to the khaleesi of carl drogo who used his power to rule to the mother of dragons who ruled her small clan to the breaker of chains who had an army of unsullied to the queen of mereen, and all the lessons she learned along the way brought her here.

She learned that a claim to the throne didn't mean much. Her brother wanted carl drogo to win him his throne back. He got a crown for a king.  She wanted to get into quarth. They almost left her in the red waste. She wanted a ship.  The spice merchant told her to f off. She told the dothraki who she was when they caught her alone. They dumped her with the other ex khaleesis. 

She had tried to rule with her claim alone.  The dothraki waited until carl drogo died and left.  

She learned that having the people's love mattered, but still wasn't enough. She saw that she didn't have the people's love in westeros. She saw that jon and sansa did.  

She had tried to rule with their love alone. And it worked with the unsullied.  But it wasn't enough  I'll end slavery, she said. We want slavery back,  said some of the slaves.  We want the fighting pits back, said others.  

She tried to rule with justice and love.  She executed that dude that killed a master against her orders.  They all hissed at her.  Mhysa is a master, said the graffiti.  Kill mhysa, said the sons of the harpy. 

She learned that people only follow strength.  Jorah said it time and again about the dothraki. She learned it when she burned the other carls in dosh kaleen - because they'd threatened her power. Remember, it wasn't the physical threat.  She'd been rescued.  She killed every one of them because she wanted to rule the dothraki.  

Everything from season one episode one led us to this point.  Like Michael corleone learning how to rule with fear but losing his humanity, she had learned the lessons with disastrous results. 

And when she arrived at dragonstone, she was ready to take kings landing by force, but she was advised not to. It cost her dearly.  She responded by destroying the money train and killing thousands.  

When jon and his allies tried to get a zombie in the dumbest plan ever, she saved them.  It cost her a dragon, but allowed her to get Cersei to help fight the dead.  Nope, betrayed again.

She fought the army of the dead,  and her armies got crushed.  Jon snow mentions oh by the way I'm the real king.  Good talk.  Later.  

She went back to king's landing and they killed her dragon and her best friend. She went back to her advisors and found out one had betrayed her, because the other had told him her secret, which had been told by jon. Everyone she knows except grey worm and drogon is dead or has betrayed her.  

And she still talks to jon and tries one last time, only to get rejected. 

When she said "all right then, let it be fear", she had exhausted all other options. There was no other option that allowed her to be queen. That was the threat, writ large by everyone around her betraying her in her final hour.
Click to expand...
:subscribe:

 
zoonation said:
She had the crown without killing thousands of innocents.  She did it for sport.  

I agree with Fred’s write up to explain why she decided she had to take the crown by force.  For me, it does not explain why she decided to kill thousands of innocents after she had the crown.  
Click to expand...
Maybe it was just her monthly visit.  .

 
Did Daenerys See Snow Or Ash In The Throne Room? This 'GOT' Vision May Be A Major Spoiler

By Sarah Halle Corey

2 weeks ago

On Game of Thrones, the Night King has been defeated and the threat of an endless night is over... or at least it seems that way. The rest of the series will focus on the fight for the Iron Throne in King's Landing, leaving the wintry landscape of the North behind. But, there might possibly be more snow in the future of our favorite Westerosi characters. A few seasons back, Daenerys had a vision of the future in the King's Landing throne room, and the eery scene might give some major clues about what's to come as the GOT story moves south. Fans are wondering, did Daenerys see snow or ash in the throne room? The answer will reveal a lot.

All the way back in Season 2, back before Daenerys became the Breaker of Chains and way before the idea of fighting the White Walkers was even a glimmer in her mind, Daenerys visits the House of the Undying. In GOT Season 2 Episode 10 (called "Valar Morghulis") Daenerys travels to Qaarth to rescue her dragons from the Warlocks who camp out in the House of the Undying. While she's there, the warlocks give her an intense vision.

tf vb on YouTube

In the vision, Daenerys travels beyond the Wall and briefly reunites with her late husband Khal Drogo. But that's not the part of the vision that fans are focusing on. Before she sees Drogo, Daenerys wanders through the throne room in King's Landing. The room is grey and empty, and the roof and windows have been torn out. Daenerys starts to approach the Iron Throne, but it's completely covered in the snow that's falling from the open ceiling.

Ever since "Valar Morghulis" aired, fans have debated the meaning of Daenerys' vision. Her main goal is to take the Iron Throne, and so since the vision depicts her getting so close to it, it seems like it might be a prophecy what's to come as she gets closer to making her dream come true (or not). That means that every detail of the scene can and has been totally scrutinized by fans, especially the snowfall. Some fans have wondered if the snow dusting the throne room isn't actually snow, but is ash instead. That could mean that Daenerys' vision shows the aftermath of her dragons burning King's Landinng and dusting it with ash. This predicts a different future than one covered in snow, which could represent Jon Snow ruling over Westeros.

It could be easy to debate the dusting in Daenerys' vision forever, but luckily the GOT scripts can provide some answers. Vanity Fair took a look at the script for Season 2 Episode 10 and found the description of Daenery's throne room vision. It reads:

She looks up. The roof is missing and snow falls from the sky. [. . .] At the far end of the room, the Iron Throne waits for her, dusted with snow. Her dream made manifest.

So there you have it. Daenerys definitely sees snow in the throne room. But, even though that fact has been cleared up, it's still not exactly clear what all that snow means. Fans can find out in the remaining three episodes of GOT which air on Sunday at 9 P.M. ET on HBO.
Click to expand...

 
*Warning: Spoilers ahead*

“I am no ordinary woman, my dreams come true,” Daenerys Targaryen once said.

If the Dragon Queen is right, then she may not rule the Seven Kingdoms after all. Flashback to season two, when Dany sees a vision of the Iron Throne. Fans have wondered for years whether the throne room in her dream, which was covered with a powdery gray substance, was covered in ash or snow, since this could be a *major* clue for the ending of the show (ash representing Dany’s dragons and her ultimate ascension to the throne, snow representing Jon as King—or perhaps the White Walkers’ takeover). 

And according to Vanity Fair, who recently combed through the Game of Thrones scripts that are on display at the Writers Guild of America West library, the season two scripts hold the answer. 

The script reads: “She looks up. The roof is missing and snow falls from the sky. [. . .] At the far end of the room, the Iron Throne waits for her, dusted with snow. Her dream made manifest.” 

There you have it: Snow. Does this mean Jon will ultimately “win” the Game? Or will the White Walkers come for King’s Landing and decimate mankind?

Of course, the writers of the show wouldn’t have known the exact ending to GoT yet back in season two, but it does feel like a great deal of symbolism that shouldn’t be ignored.

Just somethin’ to think about as we rewatch the new teaser trailer for the 1000th time…
Click to expand...

 
Capella said:
It doesn’t make me an ####### that you keep arguing against things that are a known fact (Martin has said multiple times he had the ending in mind). You are unwilling to listen when people tell you things that are factual in nature. 
Click to expand...
Did I insult anybody like you constantly do? Does it make you feel better about yourself in your real life to constantly insult people?

 
Capella said:
I don’t constantly insult anybody. If I did Joe would’ve nuked me years ago. You’re arguing against a point that the freaking guy who created all the characters has said repeatedly. Martin has said he told D&D the ending years ago. Arguing counter to that is being obtuse. 
Click to expand...
:lmao: sure buddy. The only time you haven't been an ####### to me was when my daughter was on her death bed. Says a lot about your character. You're constantly an ####### to people. I'll move on.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

BobbyLayne
The 25 Greatest Films of the 21st Century So Far
2 3 4
Replies
155
Views
12K
El Floppo
El Floppo

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 3 (members: 0, guests: 3)
Back
Top