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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (7 Viewers)

Capella said:
Well since you brought it up, I did start up that campaign and took the time to PM you about it and sent it to my own friends and family, but if you want to call me an ####### on the ol message board go wild man. 
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like I said, that was the the only time. In other words, it takes some dying for you to treat them with respect.

 
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Nathan R. Jessep said:
I think the declining scores are just because more and more people are having their theories squashed the further in we get  :lol:  Stand by for a record low when it's something nobody predicted for the ending. 
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I know it's easy to write it off as that, but even in interviews the actors are saying that they had to create some head canon for their characters for these last scenes to get into the role because they didn't get who their characters ended like this (actors who play Varys and Jaime are two examples).    

That's telling, and not just whiny fans #####ing because their character didn't live or something.   

 
I cant keep up with this thread so if this was posted already, sorry

Since we are so fond of countdowns, this is my number 1 Game of Thrones intro cover

Just your run of the mill AWESOME guitarists jamming out to the theme song.  Love Morellos solo and who knew Brad Paisley could do anything but the Nationwide jingle

Rock on my friends  :headbang:

https://youtu.be/6i0a7RDPkM8

 
Thunderlips said:
There's no Snow in Kings Landing.  The NK is dead.  Why would all of a sudden, there be Snow in a trashed Throne Room?
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Because that scene was shot before D&D knew the fates of the various characters and, if they had shown the real visions that Dany saw in the books, it would've spoiled stuff. So, they have a KL throne room with snow and The Wall and let people make of it what they will because it is so broad and non-specific.

 
sn0mm1s said:
The writers didn't ask GRRM how it was going to end until they knew they were going to pass him. That early in the show, the writers had no idea how it was going to end.
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There’s an article I read last night (from 2018 I think) saying he told them 6 years ago. 

 
Capella said:
Not every character can be given a huge arc. People’s expectation of Bran being some kind of superhero is ridiculous. They have never demonstrated him to be anything other than what he is. The only problem with his story is the viewer’s expectations. When has he done anything other than sat in his chair and looked like a creep? Why do you expect more? 
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Chekov's mystical powers?   One character was transformed into something that was more than human, with the ability to see through time and inhabit other people's bodies.   You believe it's ridiculous to believe that's supposed to lead to...something?

Hot Pie has more depth to his character.  

 
Capella said:
There’s an article I read last night (from 2018 I think) saying he told them 6 years ago. 
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Yeah pretty sure they found out when they were initially developing the show....that said it's definitely snow.  As NPJ pointed out there are ####### icicles.

 
Capella said:
There’s an article I read last night (from 2018 I think) saying he told them 6 years ago. 
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Incorrect

So, April of 2019 he says 5-6 years ago he told them the ending. Which at best puts it in 2013. This is after that scene was released (2012), which was after the scene was filmed, which was after the scene was written. Really, you are looking at that scene being written in 2011. So, no, the writers had no clue.

 
sn0mm1s said:
No, he didn't.
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So you’re gonna be somewhat surprised by their ending then, perhaps …
Well, to a degree. I mean, I think … the major points of the ending will be things that I told them, you know, five or six years ago. But there may also be changes, and there’ll be a lot added.

:unsure:

I am confused by this entire nerd fight :lmao:

 
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Payne said:
That was not a "battle" at all. It was a dragon swooping back and forth for 45 minutes lighting everything on fire.

The battle with the WW in episode 3 was much better.  
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That’s what we’re talking about, episode 3.  People are complaining the NK’s demise was too “abrupt”.

 
zoonation said:
She had the crown without killing thousands of innocents.  She did it for sport.  

I agree with Fred’s write up to explain why she decided she had to take the crown by force.  For me, it does not explain why she decided to kill thousands of innocents after she had the crown.  
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While she had the crown I think her concern was keeping it from  the rightful heir:  Jon Snow

 
belljr said:
So you’re gonna be somewhat surprised by their ending then, perhaps …
Well, to a degree. I mean, I think … the major points of the ending will be things that I told them, you know, five or six years ago. But there may also be changes, and there’ll be a lot added.

:unsure:

I am confused by this entire nerd fight :lmao:
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5 or 6 years ago is after season 2 aired

 
Buckychudd said:
Yeah pretty sure they found out when they were initially developing the show....that said it's definitely snow.  As NRJ pointed out there are ####### icicles.
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Well, the icicles and the fact that the roof is gone and there is no active fire burning, so there would be no source for ash to be falling straight down from the sky. :shrug:  #teamsnow :lol:  

 
hagmania said:
Dan and David explicitly stated she hadn't made up her mind to systematically torch the streets of King's Landing until the bells started ringing.

It was a very poor writing decision for a very great moment.
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That doesn't change everything that led up to it. 

Just to be clear

She clearly planned on shock and awe, fire and blood, including killing people inside king's landing, before the bells. I know this because i saw the dragon burn #### inside the gates before the bells.  

She clearly stopped when the bells rang. The episode was called the bells.  

Tyrion had asked her to stop if she heard the bells.  He would only have asked because it was clear that it was possible she would not stop.  It turns out he was right.  Oh, and she didn't answer.  This was not a completely sudden decision.  

She clearly heard the bells ring and her face changed.  I agree that that is the moment that she decided to keep burning the city.

She did this because she was uber pissed and "just snapped".

The reasons i listed are why she was uber pissed.

Those reasons do not excuse or justify her killing all those people.  I'm only explaining why she was so upset and why she snapped. 

It wasn't out of character, bad writing, poorly explained, too quick. It was the culmination of everything we'd watched.  She did a terrible thing and she will likely get killed because of it. But there was a LOT of buildup to that moment.  

It's insulting to the story to say it's bad writing for her to do something out of character like that.  When had joffrey ever ignored his mother before he yelled bring me his head?  When had walder frey ever sided with the lannisters?  We go back and see the warning signs and say oh George you're a genius but the backlash over this has been ridiculous.  

 
belljr said:
The knew before filming the last 5 seasons.  Why would that matter?
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Well, they probably didn't know until after season 3 was being filmed/written. The point is, everyone claiming it was ash in the throne room because it was foreshadowing Dany going mad and burning KL is wrong because the writers didn't know Dany was going mad and burning KL at that point.

 
bostonfred said:
Maybe you didn't understand what she meant when she said let it be fear. You may have noticed she had a dragon and was taking the throne by force. 
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I just don’t find all the examples you are giving for why she decided to kill innocent women and children compelling.  They are examples of why she would accept collateral damage in taking the throne. 

But burning the truly innocent is, in my view, not in keeping with her character, and not a logical or predictable consequence of all the bad #### that happened to her that you have so eloquently laid out in this thread.  

That is the leap that the legions of people who feel this heeliest of heel turns wasn’t earned.  

Reasonable people can disagree.  

 
bostonfred said:
That doesn't change everything that led up to it. 

Just to be clear

She clearly planned on shock and awe, fire and blood, including killing people inside king's landing, before the bells. I know this because i saw the dragon burn #### inside the gates before the bells.  

She clearly stopped when the bells rang. The episode was called the bells.  

Tyrion had asked her to stop if she heard the bells.  He would only have asked because it was clear that it was possible she would not stop.  It turns out he was right.  Oh, and she didn't answer.  This was not a completely sudden decision.  

She clearly heard the bells ring and her face changed.  I agree that that is the moment that she decided to keep burning the city.

She did this because she was uber pissed and "just snapped".

The reasons i listed are why she was uber pissed.

Those reasons do not excuse or justify her killing all those people.  I'm only explaining why she was so upset and why she snapped. 

It wasn't out of character, bad writing, poorly explained, too quick. It was the culmination of everything we'd watched.  She did a terrible thing and she will likely get killed because of it. But there was a LOT of buildup to that moment.  

It's insulting to the story to say it's bad writing for her to do something out of character like that.  When had joffrey ever ignored his mother before he yelled bring me his head?  When had walder frey ever sided with the lannisters?  We go back and see the warning signs and say oh George you're a genius but the backlash over this has been ridiculous.  
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1) She was burning armies inside the gates and burning down the gates - not systematically burning innocents.

2) It was out of character. Show me all the times she went out of her way to kill innocents or did something "mad" that any of the other rulers hadn't done as well? 

 
Godsbrother said:
She wants everyone to be so full of fear that they wouldn't dare make a move against her.
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She didn’t accomplish that in the firestorm before the bells rang?  Sure looked to me like she did. The Lannister army was ####ting their pants.  

Were the peasants she fried ever going to “make a move” against her?  Nope.  They hated Cersei and didn’t do anything when she took the throne.  

 
Godsbrother said:
She wants everyone to be so full of fear that they wouldn't dare make a move against her.
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That is accomplished merely with a dragon. Pretty much how/why her family conquered the 7 kingdoms to begin with. The 7 kingdoms/kings didn't give up their titles because the Targs were giving them convincing arguments as to why they should - they did it with fire and blood. 

 
bostonfred said:
That doesn't change everything that led up to it. 

Just to be clear

She clearly planned on shock and awe, fire and blood, including killing people inside king's landing, before the bells. I know this because i saw the dragon burn #### inside the gates before the bells.  

She clearly stopped when the bells rang. The episode was called the bells.  

Tyrion had asked her to stop if she heard the bells.  He would only have asked because it was clear that it was possible she would not stop.  It turns out he was right.  Oh, and she didn't answer.  This was not a completely sudden decision.  

She clearly heard the bells ring and her face changed.  I agree that that is the moment that she decided to keep burning the city.

She did this because she was uber pissed and "just snapped".

The reasons i listed are why she was uber pissed.

Those reasons do not excuse or justify her killing all those people.  I'm only explaining why she was so upset and why she snapped. 

It wasn't out of character, bad writing, poorly explained, too quick. It was the culmination of everything we'd watched.  She did a terrible thing and she will likely get killed because of it. But there was a LOT of buildup to that moment.  

It's insulting to the story to say it's bad writing for her to do something out of character like that.  When had joffrey ever ignored his mother before he yelled bring me his head?  When had walder frey ever sided with the lannisters?  We go back and see the warning signs and say oh George you're a genius but the backlash over this has been ridiculous.  
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I didn't really have much of a problem with it because I think we were all expecting things to pretty much go this way.  Everything comes full circle, like father like daughter, Jon Snow now gets to face the same decision as Jaime did just prior to the start of the show, etc.  It's a neat little way to wrap things up.

I did think just going house by house and killing a bunch of random civilians was a bit too big/quick of a jump though, but as to the above I see why they did it.  I think a better middle ground would have been for her to attack the red keep after the bells rang, sacrificing 10,000 innocents (or however many were inside the keep) to kill Cersei. 

Going out of her way to turn AWAY from Cersei to go target a bunch of homes and common folk was a bit on the nose.  But then again, this season has not been one for subtlety.  I'm actually surprised they didn't keep with the way things have been going and have Tyrion deliver some nice exposition to the viewer as he watched.  "Oh my god there she goes, she's burning innocent people.  Just like.....(sunglasses).....her father".

 
sn0mm1s said:
1) She was burning armies inside the gates and burning down the gates - not systematically burning innocents.

2) It was out of character. Show me all the times she went out of her way to kill innocents or did something "mad" that any of the other rulers hadn't done as well? 
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Show me all the times walder frey ordered someone to stab a pregnant woman in the belly and shoot her husband in front of his mother then slit her throat.  

When people do really horrific #### it's usually for the first time.  

I understand you're unconvinced and want to continue not enjoying the show though.  Enjoy your complaining and i hope you hate the next one as much as you obviously plan to. 

 
It's weird to me that people think there is a "correct" answer here. I understand the points fred and his ilk are making - I just don't agree. This season has really fallen flat for me, that's just been my natural reaction when watching the episodes. No amount of explanations or "hey remember this line" is going to change my thoughts. 

 
bostonfred said:
Show me all the times walder frey ordered someone to stab a pregnant woman in the belly and shoot her husband in front of his mother then slit her throat.  

When people do really horrific #### it's usually for the first time.  

I understand you're unconvinced and want to continue not enjoying the show though.  Enjoy your complaining and i hope you hate the next one as much as you obviously plan to. 
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Those were Walder Frey’s enemies.  Horrific but distinguishable. 

And I loved everything about that last ep (clegane bowl, Arya, Jamie/Cersei reunion and death - one final Hedley masterclass, cinematography, score etc) except the one thing.  

I think you can love a show and still articulate disappointment with sloppy aspects of it. 

 
Moe. said:
It's weird to me that people think there is a "correct" answer here. I understand the points fred and his ilk are making - I just don't agree. This season has really fallen flat for me, that's just been my natural reaction when watching the episodes. No amount of explanations or "hey remember this line" is going to change my thoughts. 
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I think that's fair. Lot's of people share your opinion.

For me, I've enjoyed all 8 seasons, and there is so much entertainment there that any minor quibbles I have with some writing decisions don't negatively affect that enjoyment.

 
Worm said:
I think that's fair. Lot's of people share your opinion.

For me, I've enjoyed all 8 seasons, and there is so much entertainment there that any minor quibbles I have with some writing decisions don't negatively affect that enjoyment.
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I'm still very much entertained, don't get me wrong. 

 
bostonfred said:
It's insulting to the story to say it's bad writing for her to do something out of character like that.  When had joffrey ever ignored his mother before he yelled bring me his head?  When had walder frey ever sided with the lannisters?  We go back and see the warning signs and say oh George you're a genius but the backlash over this has been ridiculous.  
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Apples and oranges here.  We have no idea what Walder Frey's character was since they didn't spend any time developing him.  Same thing with Joffrey, he killed Ned Stark in Season 1, Episode 9.  They hadn't developed the charater enough to know how he would act.  But what they did show of him wasn't contrary to anything he did previously.  By the time he eventually did die, killing Ned Stark was totally within his character.

Dany on the other hand they spent 7 years of character development.  She didn't kill without (in her mind) a noble purpose.  Slavers, people who betrayed her, wronged her or wanted her dead.  They spent years showing how merciful she could be, how she was able to check even her worst impulses, how she went out of her way to do the right thing.  She didn't kill any innocent people.  She certainly wouldn't have killed children.  When her dragons did, she locked them away.  Ever since Tyrion joined up with her every other scene is about "breaking the wheel".  If she died, everything was lost and Westeros would be status quo.  Why spend years building up to that to have her basically go against everything she's worked towards?  It doesn't make sense.    

 
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