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Gary Payton goes to Lakers (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sulla
- Start date
Payton's still a baller don't get me wrong, but he's not anywhere close to the All-Defensive team guy he used to be. Of course, he could still look like Doug Christie or Ron Artest to Laker fans after watching Fisher in the playoffs the last few years...LOL@ GP not being able to play D anymore... :rotflmao: :rotflmao: "The Glove" can still ball. Period.LOL @ Malone being a defensive player.... He is way too slow to guard anybody anymore, and so is Payton. These are obvious talent upgrades (fisher/madsen is tough to downgrade on), but you have to be a moron (or a laker homer) to think Malone is gonna be happy averaging 6 pts per game, or that Payton is going to have no problem playing decoy and standing in the corner at the end of games while Kobe (if he's not in prison) takes ill advised jumper after ill advised jumper.I'm amused at all the Haters saying that the Lake show will implode if Malone signs. Cmon guys.....seriously....Kobe, Shaq, Payton, and Malone = 03-04 ChampsYou guys know what solves problems......WINNING. What you guys fail to realize is that this would also be the All-NBA Defensive team. Each of those guys are incredibly talented when it comes to Defense. Kobe and the Glove in the backcourt.....oh my. Shaq and Malone......game over. This team would just be sick.......I LOVE IT!!!!!
:rotflmao:
Bring it Spurs
CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
Being a Laker follower for many, many years, all I can say is YESSSSSSSSS!!!!! :rotflmao: I don't see a problem with the distribution of balls providing they win and they should get 60+ wins if they stay healthy. Horry and Fox, last year's 3 and 4 starters weren't factors in the playoffs and yet the Lakers almost pulled it off with their two-man team. The point about team defense is the scary part for me. With the Glove in the picture and probably (another good defensive player who can shoot the three) George starting at 3 with Walton off the bench, they will be deep for sure.
Night Hawks
Footballguy
There's enough hate in me to go towards both.
Night Hawks
Footballguy
My sentiments exactly.Although I don't like this idea, there is still also a possibility of Pippen going to the lakers too to reunite with Jackson. I'd hate to see my favorite player from the Bulls glory days go to the lakers. i would love to see him head back to chicago just to finish his career there now that the ####### GM Krause is gone after breaking up the dynasty.
randall146
Footballguy
I don't like this because it takes the spotlight off the Maverick's historic playoff run.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
The Denver Nuggets are over the NBA salary cap?!While those are the only ways they can exceed THEIR cap #, you can make a sign and trade for similar contracts values if you are over the cap. Speaking of that, did anyone hear the blurb on ESPN that LA is working on doing a sign and trade so "they can give Payton a little more $"? I found this interesting, because if they were able to do that, wouldn't they then be able to use the exemption on another free agent? Maybe they could get both Payton/PJ Brown after all. Perhaps I spoke too soon. I'm looking for something in print that says that they are working on this but haven't found anything yet. Has Payton actually SIGNED for the exemption already? Or did he just say he was going to sign there?
BoltBacker
Footballguy
DUH. I guess he can't sign until the 16th. I'm really getting behind on NBA news.
TenTimes
Backhoe Operator
The reason the city of Los Angeles signed the Mailman was because *these guys* just weren't cutting it
jsargos
Footballguy
Adding Payton and Malone are great moves on paper, but ultimately only one thing will push the Lakers back over the title threshold; a healthy and in shape Shaq. If he's in the same physical condition that he played in this year, the Lakers won't win another title. I also have to say that I'm not crazy about the back-court pairing of Payton and Bryant. Both are offensive initiators, and I'm not sure how either will take to playing off the ball 50% of time or more. Either one would be better off playing with a catch and shoot specialist (see Jordan + Hodges/Paxon/Armstrong/Harper). Payton's biggest addition will probably be on defense, Fisher has been getting torched by every quick guard he's gone up against for the last two years. They'll be a good defensive back-court, but by far the most over-rated part of Kobe's game (really the only over-rated part) is his defense. I'm sure the Glove will let him hear about it too.Shaq and Malone are a much better pairing. Malone isn't a great rebounder anymore, but he'll get Shaq's back better than anyone since a much younger Horace Grant in Orlando. Malone can still nail 15-18 footers, but I wonder how much of a groove he'll find when he only gets 1 or 2 shots a quarter? My very early prediction is that the Lakers will win around 50 games and finish no higher than the 4 or 5 seed. I see them going out in the 2nd round to either the Kings, Mavs, Suns, or Spurs.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I'm pretty sure giving Pick ANY excuse to get all wound up about the chances of the Utah Jazz is a Free For All foul.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I agree with many of your assertions except for the last part about how many games they'll win. This year they had a 50-32 record with a bunch of scrubs playing with Kobe and Shaq, not to mention that Shaq was out for about 15-20 games to start the year. With the addition of Malone and Payton, you don't think they'll win any more games? C'mon man, that's Laker-hatin' at its finest. They are going to the Western Conf. Finals and will face S.A. for a real showdown.
jsargos
Footballguy
It's not Laker hating at all. I just don't buy the premise that more talent automatically translates into more wins. The Spurs just won a championship with only one superstar player in his prime. They won because they were the best *team*, built with role players who complemented Tim Duncan and were able to deliver in their limited role. Maybe Payton and Malone will turn out to be great role players, but nobody has seen that happen yet. Just like we haven't seen either one play in the triangle offense.
It's also not like the rest of the Western conference has been sliding back. Minnesota, Phoenix, and Houston all look like teams who could make big steps this year. San Antonio, Dallas, and Sacto should all be at the same level or better.
Would it shock me if everything jells perfectly for the Lakers and they win 60 games? It's certainly possible, I just don't think it's likely.
Beerguzzler
Footballguy
There's plenty of ball to go around.......You guys obviously don't watch basketball if you don't think Payton and Malone will be defensive upgrades. For as old as Malone is he is still a great post up defender (which is what they need for all the big PF in the West). Payton is still hands down the best PG defender in the league. He's in amazing shape and has not lost a step. #### he had his best season last year IMO. Had the most assists in his career and was just amazing in both Seattle and Milwaukee.But no sense in debating this...just look at all the teams that are out to get Malone's services. No one wants to see the Lakers get him because they know he would be a huge assett to the team. Not only would team defenses not be able to focus on Shaq, but they would also have to guard that 15-18 ft jumper that Malone can nail consistently. That IMO will be the biggest contribution Malone will make. GP or Kobe dump it into Shaq, double team down, Malone slips out, pass, swish. It really is just a variation of the pick and roll, except he'll be alot more wide open.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Do you really believe this?Why is Malone turning down 8 million dollar offers, while Horry can't get a job in a grocery store right now?Horry sucks, Malone is still All-Star material. The Glove is still one of the top 15 player in the NBA.The Lakers just finished their worst season in 4 years, added 2 Hall of Famers, and you think they won't improve?Hell, even if the Lakers didn't add anyone, I think they'd win more than 50 in the up coming season.
Paranoia
Footballguy
The point of the forementioned quote is that malone is a threat from 15 to 18 feet while Horry hasnt been a threat for 8 years. Malone averaged 20 a game last year and is still one of the strongest big men in all the land. I see no argument that with Malone and payton in LA the Lakers will be the overwhelming favorite.
Beerguzzler
Footballguy
Well first off it's a quicker pass (it takes more time to set up the 3 pter, take smore passes to get him alone). When Horry got most of his 3 pter's it was off the ball being thrown around the perimeter to the open man. When the opposing PF doubles off Malone to help with Shaq, all Shaq has to do is make the quick pass when Malone backs off. He can also take it to the rack if he doesn't want to take the jumper. It's just a different set type of offense. Horry was never a post threat and had little to no post up moves so he was always away from the basket when he was in the game. Now they don't have to isolate shaq inside. It just gives them the ability to dump the ball on either side of the court.Spacing in general will be greatly improved because of the options to play both sides of the floor, they don't have to just dump it into Shaq's side. They could swing it around and reposition it with malone as the point man in the post. Shaq can crash the boards from the weakside.....just soooo many opportunities for different formations and set's. Oh and having Payton being able to penetrate or shoot on Kobe's opposite side(of the half court) is just as devasting for opposing defenses. But as mentioned previously, Shaq's conditioning is key (granted not so much with the new firepower) but if they really want to dominate, he's the key. There is still no one in the league that can guard him inside. The rollplayers aren't needed if you can't stop the big guy inside.
jsargos
Footballguy
Did I say anything about Horry being a better player? But I haven't seen anything about Malone getting offers for anything more than the mid-level exception either. He's clearly not an All-Star at this stage of his career, even if he stayed with the Jazz and still got 20 shots a game. Anyway, the point is that it isn't always the better player who is the most valuable to a team. Raise your hand if you think the Lakers would have won three straight campionships without Big Game Rob.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Not only will GP and Karl bring stability to the offense, Phil has to be excited about the defensive pressure he'll be able to bring with Kobe and Payton together in the backcourt.Remember the pressure Jordan and Pippen used to bring? With Shaq in the back to help, Kobe and GP should compete for the steals crown.The Lakers should win 65-70 next year, provided Payton and Malone both sign on the 16th.
Spanky24
Footballguy
First things first, I love reading your stuff tommyg especially since I'm a die hard Laker fan...BUTI have to disagree with you on one thing you stated.You said "with Shaq in the back to help". HELP WHAT!?!?! For being such a force, Shaq is THE LAZIEST center I have ever seen when it comes to D'. He makes me so
just watching him game in and game out.But you are right, the pressure that the Glove will bring with Kobe should be interesting!!!GO LAKERS!!!! 
FantasyDog
Footballguy
Actually, the Payton and Malone signings should make the league very interesting next year.
They're both great players and should make the Lakers better, but I wouldn't hand them the championship yet. The thing is that the Lakers haven't improved their team speed at all, so they're just as flawed now as they were last year.
All four of the Laker 'superstars' are vulnerable to quicker players on defense; I don't see how their defense against picks-and-rolls or penetration-and-kick is better at all--in fact, trading Horry for Malone probably makes the Laker D even weaker against finesse teams. That's why it's ridiculous to expect them to go 77-5--the Lakers are guaranteed to lose at least two games to Seattle (for example) in addition to the losses they'll pile up against the West's elite.
On offense, the Lakers should be significantly better--the greatest offensive powerhouse in the league for years. Of course, that will only happen when (make that if) they learn how to play together...
To me, the Lakers' offseason rebuilding plan seems to be focused at San Antonio, since I'm not sure they'll be any more effective against (healthy) Sacramento or (improved) Dallas.
______________
San Antonio could be much better next season, too, but they're learning that nobody wants to sign on with a champion--all the credit for San Antonio's accomplishments in 2004 is already spoken for. Even Jason Kidd seems to be using the Spurs to apply pressure to the Nets, not that he'd be a good signing for the Spurs if they got him.
(I'm still not sure who came up with the idea of signing a teammate for Tim Duncan who can't shoot.)
It looks like the Spurs will have to overpay for someone like Olowokandi or Brad Miller, or they might even wind up holding the empty chair when the FA music stops--probably their best long-term option at this point, IMO.
I'm hoping they'll panic and get stuck with Kidd, or possibly with two former Clippers. (Elton Brand is off the market.) In any case, it looks like they screwed themselves over in 2004 by winning the title in 2003.
Their fans probably aren't too disappointed, though...
_____________
I think that Lakers vs. Kings will probably decide the championship next year, but the Spurs and Mavericks can still get involved, if they're able to sign the players they need. (The Mavericks always have a puncher's chance, because there's no way to prevent them from going on a roll and shooting 55% for a week or two.)
The main thing I'm not looking forward to is the officiating, which could be so one-sided in the Lakers' favor that it makes this year's officiating seem positively fair in comparison. Plus, the Lakers got rid of one part-time All-NBA Whiner (Horry) and are replacing him with two World Champion Whiners in Payton and Malone.
It should be interesting, though.
They're both great players and should make the Lakers better, but I wouldn't hand them the championship yet. The thing is that the Lakers haven't improved their team speed at all, so they're just as flawed now as they were last year.
All four of the Laker 'superstars' are vulnerable to quicker players on defense; I don't see how their defense against picks-and-rolls or penetration-and-kick is better at all--in fact, trading Horry for Malone probably makes the Laker D even weaker against finesse teams. That's why it's ridiculous to expect them to go 77-5--the Lakers are guaranteed to lose at least two games to Seattle (for example) in addition to the losses they'll pile up against the West's elite.
On offense, the Lakers should be significantly better--the greatest offensive powerhouse in the league for years. Of course, that will only happen when (make that if) they learn how to play together...
To me, the Lakers' offseason rebuilding plan seems to be focused at San Antonio, since I'm not sure they'll be any more effective against (healthy) Sacramento or (improved) Dallas.
______________
San Antonio could be much better next season, too, but they're learning that nobody wants to sign on with a champion--all the credit for San Antonio's accomplishments in 2004 is already spoken for. Even Jason Kidd seems to be using the Spurs to apply pressure to the Nets, not that he'd be a good signing for the Spurs if they got him.
(I'm still not sure who came up with the idea of signing a teammate for Tim Duncan who can't shoot.)
It looks like the Spurs will have to overpay for someone like Olowokandi or Brad Miller, or they might even wind up holding the empty chair when the FA music stops--probably their best long-term option at this point, IMO.
I'm hoping they'll panic and get stuck with Kidd, or possibly with two former Clippers. (Elton Brand is off the market.) In any case, it looks like they screwed themselves over in 2004 by winning the title in 2003.
Their fans probably aren't too disappointed, though...
_____________
I think that Lakers vs. Kings will probably decide the championship next year, but the Spurs and Mavericks can still get involved, if they're able to sign the players they need. (The Mavericks always have a puncher's chance, because there's no way to prevent them from going on a roll and shooting 55% for a week or two.)
The main thing I'm not looking forward to is the officiating, which could be so one-sided in the Lakers' favor that it makes this year's officiating seem positively fair in comparison. Plus, the Lakers got rid of one part-time All-NBA Whiner (Horry) and are replacing him with two World Champion Whiners in Payton and Malone.
It should be interesting, though.
TenTimes
Backhoe Operator
Kidd is giving the NJ Nets one more chance of keeping him, "fire Byron Scott or I am gone" I bet the day after the Nets do fire Scott Kidd says he doesn't want to play for an orginization which is so easily swayed, and goes to the Spurs anyway. Laker fans, enjoy your 2004 championship while it lasts, because in a week when Kidd signs with the Spurs it will be San Antonio who is favored to win it all. Back to back champs in 2004, this means the Lakers and Spurs will have both won 3 of the last 6 titles. BTW does anybody in their right mind really believe Shaq is in his prime? He isn't as good as he was his rookie season when he was tearing down rims. His little toe is still bothering him and honestly I think anybody who whines so much about their toe hurting is a ##### plain and simple. Jack Youngblood played a much more physical sport with a broken leg and Shaqueen is going to cry about a toe injury? I was listening to the radio this afternoon and I can't help but disagree when the "experts" say the Lakers will be unstoppable because Kobe and Shaq are in their primes and they've added two more hall of famers.
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
remind me never to get in an argument with you, Ferris.
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
The SaveFerrisB v. tommyGunZ battles are epic and are almost single-handedly responsible for me watching NBA playoff hoops last season... well, aside from my blind support of KG and the Puppies. Don't tone things down too much.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Ferris, you're not claiming Minnesota these days? I'm not sure what's more impressive: your apparent facination with my predictions or your bandwagon jumping.I bleed purple and gold, and I'll be a Laker long after Kobe is gone. Don't hate on me b/c your Wolves are allergic to the 2nd round of the playoffs.Gosh, so many choices here, and we're just in the summer league.Should I go with the standard, "Please show me where I said the Wolves were my Wolves, and that they would ever get out of the first round?" Naah. We've already proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that tommyGunZ resorts to making stuff up when the facts aren't there.Ferris, enjoy another 1st round exit for your Pretenderwolves next year.
For some reason I don't think Cassell and resigning Rasha will put them over the top.
How about, "Read To Acheive. That response did absolutely nothing to respond to my statement. "? Naah. Dunno if the NBA is using that slogan again next season, and we all know tommyGunZ just picks a new fight when he can't win the one he's in.
Perhaps "How did the NBA team in your city do?" Naaah. That would get me one step closer to knowing where tommyGunZ lives, and I'm already as familiar with him as I want to be for a lifetime.
Or maybe the old reliable "How did Clinton Portis/Miami Hurricanes/Kobe4MVP/Clifford Etienne/Lakers4peat turn out"? Naah. We'd have to move the message board to a new server to support the complete list of missed predictions, guarantees, prognositications, and plain old ignorant and idiotic things you've said on this board and Old Yeller back in the day.
I think I'll go with a new one: "If Kobe opts out of his contract and sings with a new team next season, the one positive Laker fans will get out of the deal is the comfort that you will follow your obsessive fandom of Kobe to his new team and stop pretending to be a Laker fan, raising the average credibility of Laker fans everywhere significantly."
Yeah, that's it.
The "read to achieve" line is stale. You're creative, it's time to start coming up with some new material.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I'm a laker-HATER. I'm on your side. But......... they didn't cover him..... Horry shot..... and missed........ and shot..... and missed..... and shot..... and missed.......
Shadowfax
Footballguy
True but if Horry makes the 3 in Game 5...we're all talking about how clutch Horry is. How did that bal come out...it was half way down in the basket.
He makes that and I believe LA is hoisting the trophy for a 4th straight year. But alas...it wasnt' to be and prolly puts a little stinger to an otherwise solid career with the Lakers for Horry.
CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
I think the thought of having Malone come off the bench might be a good thought but I think the rotation would be with the starters being for the beginning of the year......Shaq...Malone....George...Kobe...Glove.We'll then see Fisher and either Medvedenko, Mad Dog, Walker (all stiffs) or Cook in for one of the guards and Karl with about 3 minutes to go in the 1st. At the beginning of the 2nd or about 3 minutes in, you'll see Shaq and the other Guard out with whatever stiff backing up Shaq and Rush in with Walton backing up George. As for the Defense, for those who think Malone might be too old, all that means to me is that Malone might not play much in the 4th, unless Shaq is in foul trouble. Remember also, if Glove and Karl are past their prime and are slow a-foot as some of you think, they'll play some zone. Lastly, in the playoffs, as least in the West less Dallas, it's generally a slower paced game, meaning half court Defense is even more important. If Shaq can hit the toledo's under 350 this year and they stay relatively healthy, they will win 65 games this year.Maybe it's me but I see a lot of whining about the Lakers here, yet I bet you all didn't whine when all of this prima-donnas all decided to play in the Olympics.
You hit it on the head amongst your rambling there, a healthy Shaq and four midgets could win the title, thats how dominant he is.Theres no way on earth they win 65 games, they won't have nearly the consistent focus in the regular season to do something like that. A veteran team like that (esp the guys with 3 rings) won't gear up until they start smelling the playoffs.And how does playing for your country equate to jumping on the lakers bandwagon? Interesting article on espn.com about the teams with the biggest names in NBA history... A smaller than expected percentage of them won titles, which is a good indication why the lakers are far from locks to win next year.
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CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
the catch...sorry about my rambling/babbling...I'm at work so I lose focus at times...being interrupted (yeah I know the nerve) My point on the Olympics and Lakers, both teams are stacked yet I bet the Laker haters from here weren't too sad the US of A had all of those stars on those teams. Seems to me people are just jealous the Lakers are stacked. As for the 65 or so wins, I can see if the team gets on a run for about 15-16 games in a row early on, they might get focused enough to re-obtain their record of consecutive wins that the Bulls team took away. Heck I'll be happy with 62 wins 
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