Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
George R.R. Martin - "A Dance With Dragons" (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter kupcho1
- Start date
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
I sure hope their isn't another continent in the next book. I don't think my brain can process that many more locations and characters. I wonder how many different characters have been introduced in the entire series.
Regarding what is happening at the wall:
Regarding what is happening at the wall:
I dislike when an author takes an otherwise intelligent character and has them blatantly obtuse on a subject. Jon knows that Ghost protects him and by now should trust the wolf's instincts. Melisandre warns him several times to keep Ghost nearby.
Yet he keeps his direwolf locked up because a wildling has a boar with him. Your the Lord Freakin' Commander! You have the boar penned up and you keep your personal bodyguard with you.
Yet he keeps his direwolf locked up because a wildling has a boar with him. Your the Lord Freakin' Commander! You have the boar penned up and you keep your personal bodyguard with you.
Book was terrible. I started reading them when the HBO show came out. If I would have had to wait 6 years for this pile I'd be livid.
Book amounted to dwarf tossing. Tyrion and Daeny chapters were a bore. Not nearly enough Bran. Arya's chapters were ok. Dorne prince chapters were horrendous.
Found myself just scanning the last third of the book.
Book amounted to dwarf tossing. Tyrion and Daeny chapters were a bore. Not nearly enough Bran. Arya's chapters were ok. Dorne prince chapters were horrendous.
Found myself just scanning the last third of the book.
Jon leaving the wall was totally out of left field. Perhaps someone could clarify for me but I got the impression Melissandre/Stannis forged the letter. Stannis desperate for troops and now Jon is bringing the calvary. Jon will get mixed up in the Winterfell mess and become apart of the game of thrones. At that point he won't be fit to be Lord Commander of the Night's Watch and therefore he will take his place as Lord of Winterfell becoming Jon Stark. Stannis can then "forgive" him for abandoning his dutes at the Watch as long as he declares for him.
Perhaps in the future Samwell becomes Lord Commander of the Watch and has to figure out how to deal with Jon for abandoning them.
Perhaps in the future Samwell becomes Lord Commander of the Watch and has to figure out how to deal with Jon for abandoning them.
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
Did you read to the end of the last Jon chapter? You might want to.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Meh, I don't think Jon is dead. This book was no better than AFFC. Too much fluff as has been mentioned before. At this point I just hope to see Barristan the Bold get some type of joy in his life. Just kind of disappointing. You knew the wolf being penned was a bad thing. "Jon wrestled his wolf into a cabin?" or whatever? Oooooh clever writing there.
As for Dany, don't really care what happens to her. Cersei...don't really care one way or another. Hope Ramsay gets killed, but he probably won't. The writing has really taken a step backwards. Barristan's chapters were really the only intersted ones in the last 500 pages. And that's more because of his character's past than the storyline.
Quentyn Martell...sheesh.
As for Dany, don't really care what happens to her. Cersei...don't really care one way or another. Hope Ramsay gets killed, but he probably won't. The writing has really taken a step backwards. Barristan's chapters were really the only intersted ones in the last 500 pages. And that's more because of his character's past than the storyline.
Quentyn Martell...sheesh.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Who let the dragons out! - POOF, POOF POOF
Last edited by a moderator:
The Gator
Footballguy
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Gonna pretty much agree with you on all points. Very disappointing book that actually ruined my desire for reading for awhile. Just pulling out of the funk now.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Gonna pretty much agree with you on all points. Very disappointing book that actually ruined my desire for reading for awhile. Just pulling out of the funk now.
I just finished the Jon chapter. Then decided after reading for about 5 more minutes into the Dany chapter that I don't even really give a #### what happened or happens to her. I put the book down and turned on the 4th quarter of the New Orleans - Pitt game on NFL Network. Ingram sure looks quick."
Last edited by a moderator:
TexanFan02
Footballguy
Will somebody bump this thread in 2020 when he comes out with the next one? If he isn't dead. Thanks in advance.
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
Hopefully he has plenty of notes and a plan like Robert Jordan did.
Maelstrom
Footballguy
I just finished this finally. Took me a while to make it through, but mostly because I haven't had a lot of time to read. I agree that it is on par with AFFC rather than the first 3 books, unfortunately. I liked Arya's storyline, and Barristan's. Contrary to many, I had a little bit of love/hate relationship with Daenerys chapters - really hated them until towards the end. I look forward to seeing where that goes now.
As many have said, I can't believe the one cliffhanger is
And two thing I haven't seen mentioned:
and
Dunno, just finished it. Still a little upset about the one scene, but hoping it gets resolved. I was just commenting to a friend who is also reading the book that I was getting sick of the cliffhangers at the end of every single chapter, or so it seems. It got me wondering about the format, and whether bouncing from viewpoint to viewpoint is really a great way to tell this story, or how it would read if someone went back and put the individual viewpoints for each character in order. The conclusion we came to is that wouldn't be as good, but that doesn't mean each chapter needs to end on a "OMG whats going to happen next" moment. It detracted from my enjoyment of the book, rather than the intent of making me want to keep going to find out. I didn't want to start reading the next chapter sometimes, because I was still processing from the previous one.
As many have said, I can't believe the one cliffhanger is
the end of Jon Snow. Too much has been made of him, and I really don't think his story is done. I think he either becomes a skinchanger through Ghost or is resurrected by Melisendre or both. Not necessarily in his own body, either.
I think Daeny will do what she should have done early on, and head for Westeros. That is why I say I dare to look forward to her storyline.
I wouldn't be suprised if Stannis IS dead, but if so, I think we will get to see it play out, and find out how Theon/Reek and the fake Arya manage to escape. Stannis needs to go away, at this point he is just a bit of a distraction, and no one really wants to see him on the throne. The battle will go to Connington/Aegon vs. Lannister with the houses of Dorne and Tyrell having to decide where they want to fit in. I think Tyrell needs Lannister to still be "in power" to have a legitimate claim on the throne.
I think Daeny will do what she should have done early on, and head for Westeros. That is why I say I dare to look forward to her storyline.
I wouldn't be suprised if Stannis IS dead, but if so, I think we will get to see it play out, and find out how Theon/Reek and the fake Arya manage to escape. Stannis needs to go away, at this point he is just a bit of a distraction, and no one really wants to see him on the throne. The battle will go to Connington/Aegon vs. Lannister with the houses of Dorne and Tyrell having to decide where they want to fit in. I think Tyrell needs Lannister to still be "in power" to have a legitimate claim on the throne.
I think Jamie is going to mess up his son's claim on the throne, because I think he will come back and admit the incest. Just a hunch, led from a stray line in the book. (Jamie - "He thought of Myrcella. I will need to tell her too. The Dornishmen might not like that. Doran Martell had betrothed her to his son in the belief that she was Robert’s blood." p. 635)
How sure is it that Aegon is really the true prince? Seems like he could be a plant, a boy the same age that has been groomed. And Connington probably knows, if this is the case. Not sure, the chapter about taking his keep back, and how Prince Rheagar had visited when he was a boy - ("Your father’s lands are beautiful,” he said. His silvery hair was blowing in the wind, and his eyes were a deep purple, darker than this boy’s." p. 812) Not sure, it's pretty obvious he is talking about Rheagar, but made me wonder if that was a tip that the boy wasn't truly who they say he is. Why not, "darker than his son's" or something that didn't leave a hint of doubt?
Vrana
Footballguy
And two thing I haven't seen mentioned:
I think Jamie is going to mess up his son's claim on the throne, because I think he will come back and admit the incest. Just a hunch, led from a stray line in the book. (Jamie - "He thought of Myrcella. I will need to tell her too. The Dornishmen might not like that. Doran Martell had betrothed her to his son in the belief that she was Robert’s blood." p. 635)
How sure is it that Aegon is really the true prince? Seems like he could be a plant, a boy the same age that has been groomed. And Connington probably knows, if this is the case. Not sure, the chapter about taking his keep back, and how Prince Rheagar had visited when he was a boy - ("Your father’s lands are beautiful,” he said. His silvery hair was blowing in the wind, and his eyes were a deep purple, darker than this boy’s." p. 812) Not sure, it's pretty obvious he is talking about Rheagar, but made me wonder if that was a tip that the boy wasn't truly who they say he is. Why not, "darker than his son's" or something that didn't leave a hint of doubt?
This was the first one that I didn't want to rush through in a day.There were plenty of cliffhangers, I just didn't care about most of them. I absolutely agree that cliffhangers every single chapter is getting old.It's a shame, because the first three are so good. I think Feast was a hundred times better than Dance though, even though it didn't have most of my favorite characters. Dance ruined Tyrion and Dany for me. I didn't like either of their stories.
Charlie Frown
Footballguy
I am so pissed. What a ####### hack.
THEY KILLED MY NINJA JON! THEY KILLED MY NINJA JON!!! WTF?
Is there no justice?? GM has killed nearly every interesting character in the series.
THEY KILLED MY NINJA JON! THEY KILLED MY NINJA JON!!! WTF?
Is there no justice?? GM has killed nearly every interesting character in the series.
Barry
Footballguy
liked the book. The North stuff was great but Dany and Tyrion dragged. Still looking forward to the next one.
The Westeros forums are making me feel dumb. One major thing I missed is the Manderly Pies were full of Freys.
I did catch that Mance was Abel, but didn't see the Abel-Bael anagram.
The Westeros forums are making me feel dumb. One major thing I missed is the Manderly Pies were full of Freys.
I did catch that Mance was Abel, but didn't see the Abel-Bael anagram.
Anonymous Internet User
Footballguy
I refuse to begin this series until it is completed. When might that be, again?
TexanFan02
Footballguy
Never.I did that with the Wheel of Time series. I was buying the books in hardcover, and the bookstore guy told me the Author was spacing them out to make more money. Then the Author died. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Last edited by a moderator:
Maelstrom
Footballguy
And the guy they got to finish it is doing a fabulous job on it.
TexanFan02
Footballguy
Good Lord, is it still not done?
kupcho1
Footballguy
igbomb
Footballguy
Well he certainly would know, wouldn't he?
TexanFan02
Footballguy
Apparently, yes.'igbomb said:
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Nope, the "last" book that Jordan swore, on his deathbed as it turns out, would be one book even if he had to make the publishers put out a 1700 page volume... turned into 3 MORE ####### BOOKS!!!!!!!! Of Sanderson's books that finish up the series, 1 came out this spring, 2nd comes out Oct 4 I believe, and the 3rd book of the "last" book comes out in March. In the meantime Sanderson started his own new 10 book series... This is why I'll be stealing the rest of the books. The Jordan estate has enough of my money.
Maelstrom
Footballguy
Make that the first and second of the final 3 books came out November of 2009 & Nov. 2010. The final book will be out next spring.I don't think Jordan could have wrapped it up in one book - he had left too many loose ends. Sanderson said he took a look at it and basically said he could cram it all into one book and probably leave a lot of things unresolved, or split it into 3 books and do the ending justice. So far, reviews have been relatively positive from both fans and critics. I know I am eagerly awaiting the final book.Anyways, to bring it back to Dance of Dragons, any thoughts on the the following:
I think Jamie is going to mess up his son's claim on the throne, because I think he will come back and admit the incest. Just a hunch, led from a stray line in the book. (Jamie - "He thought of Myrcella. I will need to tell her too. The Dornishmen might not like that. Doran Martell had betrothed her to his son in the belief that she was Robert's blood." p. 635)
How sure is it that Aegon is really the true prince? Seems like he could be a plant, a boy the same age that has been groomed. And Connington probably knows, if this is the case. Not sure, the chapter about taking his keep back, and how Prince Rheagar had visited when he was a boy - ("Your father's lands are beautiful," he said. His silvery hair was blowing in the wind, and his eyes were a deep purple, darker than this boy's." p. 812) Not sure, it's pretty obvious he is talking about Rheagar, but made me wonder if that was a tip that the boy wasn't truly who they say he is. Why not, "darker than his son's" or something that didn't leave a hint of doubt?
TeamDingo
Footballguy
Possible but unlikely. I do not think JonCon "knows" that Aegon/Young Griff is a fake. More likely he is Ilyrio Mopatis' son
The Gator
Footballguy
I don't think so, just my opinion though. ETA: just listening to the audio books and whe The Mountain kills the Viper he says "I killed her whelp" not "whelps". Could mean nothing, or it could mean he knew the boy babe wasn't hers. I think a few of these lines are setting up the Targaryens for having "weak seed". Young Aegon wasn't pure Targaryen. So much of this series talks about looks of family lines and if you believe that R+L=J, then something needs to be explained why he has zero Targaryen features. I think it leads to them explaining that was part of the reason for their incest. To keep their bloodlines pure because they had weak hereditary features.
Last edited by a moderator:
TeamDingo
Footballguy
I don't think so, just my opinion though. ETA: just listening to the audio books and whe The Mountain kills the Viper he says "I killed her whelp" not "whelps". Could mean nothing, or it could mean he knew the boy babe wasn't hers. I think a few of these lines are setting up the Targaryens for having "weak seed". Young Aegon wasn't pure Targaryen. So much of this series talks about looks of family lines and if you believe that R+L=J, then something needs to be explained why he has zero Targaryen features. I think it leads to them explaining that was part of the reason for their incest. To keep their bloodlines pure because they had weak hereditary features.
Lorch killed the daughter and Gregor killed Aegon.
The Gator
Footballguy
I don't think so, just my opinion though. ETA: just listening to the audio books and whe The Mountain kills the Viper he says "I killed her whelp" not "whelps". Could mean nothing, or it could mean he knew the boy babe wasn't hers. I think a few of these lines are setting up the Targaryens for having "weak seed". Young Aegon wasn't pure Targaryen. So much of this series talks about looks of family lines and if you believe that R+L=J, then something needs to be explained why he has zero Targaryen features. I think it leads to them explaining that was part of the reason for their incest. To keep their bloodlines pure because they had weak hereditary features.
Lorch killed the daughter and Gregor killed Aegon.
Reginald Cornsilks
Footballguy
Hey guys -
I've finished ADwD. Also, I just read the first 4 books of the series over the past 3 weeks so I've got it all fresher in my head than a few others. My thoughts and some questions:
I don't know I'm just rambling.
If I were to pick up another fantasy series while I wait for Book 6, where would you suggest? I read the reviews on Wheel of Time and frankly, I'm way too scared off of the middle books based on the reviews. Not many kind words said by the critics at all and the series comes to a grinding halt for thousands of pages.
Can anyone point me in another direction?
I've finished ADwD. Also, I just read the first 4 books of the series over the past 3 weeks so I've got it all fresher in my head than a few others. My thoughts and some questions:
-Agree there is no way Jon Snow is dead. It's speculated that Jon IS the literal Song of Fire and Ice. If the combined powers of Rhollor and the Others combine in resurrecting him and he becomes an amalgam of both powers, he would be born of both ice and fire literally which could make for some interesting plots going forward. (Note the above idea was lifted almost directly from ASOFAI message board, not my original thoughts but one idea I really enjoyed and could see. I in no way want to get called a plagiarizer, I didn't copy and paste because I don't remember where I read it but I'm paraphrasing the idea as best I can remember).
Jon is perhaps the purest and greatest character in the books. The purest of those with the ability to do evil anyway. Extremely loyal (other than the Ygritte fling) and as pure as Ned Stark as we have seen so far as far as doing the "right" thing. I would be crushed if he were killed off in such a hasty way.
-Arya is going to be a really cool character. I wonder if she comes back to Westeros with that vengeance streak in her - actually, I hope she does. Still, by far and away, my favorite character of the entire series. She's awesome.
-Sansa - not too much going on with her in the text itself but something is being set up with her proposed marriage to Harry the Heir. I still wonder about LittleFingers intentions, the guy has been all over the map. Holding a knife to Eddard Starks throat, to saving Sansa, to killing Blount and The Queen of the Vale (and framing Marillion). He interests me a bit and I needed more of him.
-Davos - going to be great in the next book when he goes to Skagos to save Rickon
-Bran - almost nothing out of him in this book or the last. I found this odd.
Jon is perhaps the purest and greatest character in the books. The purest of those with the ability to do evil anyway. Extremely loyal (other than the Ygritte fling) and as pure as Ned Stark as we have seen so far as far as doing the "right" thing. I would be crushed if he were killed off in such a hasty way.
-Arya is going to be a really cool character. I wonder if she comes back to Westeros with that vengeance streak in her - actually, I hope she does. Still, by far and away, my favorite character of the entire series. She's awesome.
-Sansa - not too much going on with her in the text itself but something is being set up with her proposed marriage to Harry the Heir. I still wonder about LittleFingers intentions, the guy has been all over the map. Holding a knife to Eddard Starks throat, to saving Sansa, to killing Blount and The Queen of the Vale (and framing Marillion). He interests me a bit and I needed more of him.
-Davos - going to be great in the next book when he goes to Skagos to save Rickon
-Bran - almost nothing out of him in this book or the last. I found this odd.
If I were to pick up another fantasy series while I wait for Book 6, where would you suggest? I read the reviews on Wheel of Time and frankly, I'm way too scared off of the middle books based on the reviews. Not many kind words said by the critics at all and the series comes to a grinding halt for thousands of pages.
Can anyone point me in another direction?
Reginald Cornsilks
Footballguy
Oh and I forgot Daenerys
MEH. I was really hoping she'd end up at least planning to make for Westeros and reclaim the throne. I can't believe it's Book 5 and she's still on the other continent with no plans to re-take her throne. Obviously the Tyrion and Aegon (or was it Aemom) resurfacing and being alive will have an effect on what happens but yeah. She has turned pathetic in this book. She used to have no fear, sitting in a fire and hatching dragons and she seemed meek and weak until she ended up riding the dragon out of the gladiator pits.
There's so much going on with her that it's tough to say what's to come but running into one of the Khal's that deserted her is probably going to dominate her story now for the next book and a half or so. Which I'm not looking forward to.
She used to be one of my favorite characters but there wasn't a lot going on with her throughout this book and I became bored with the new crazy names and her still being in Mereen with no plans to leave.
There's so much going on with her that it's tough to say what's to come but running into one of the Khal's that deserted her is probably going to dominate her story now for the next book and a half or so. Which I'm not looking forward to.
She used to be one of my favorite characters but there wasn't a lot going on with her throughout this book and I became bored with the new crazy names and her still being in Mereen with no plans to leave.
Maelstrom
Footballguy
Wheel of Time is my favorite fantasy series (yes, over ASOFAI). I think the middle books do slow down a bit, and Jordan introduced too many new characters and side plots. But I have re-read the series a couple times because there is always something new in there, and those side plots actual become interesting. I think the character development is very good, and and the benefit of the length is that the characters can really grow, and there can be some cool little twists. Biggest complaint is probably the pacing, followed closely by:'Reginald Cornsilks said:I just started 'Malazan Book of the Fallen', but have been told about Wheel of Time also.
Anything better than these two? Is Wheel of Time better?
Jordan won't kill off any of the truly main characters, and over the course of a series this long, it would be inevitable that one of them would bite it.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Just keep going, it's not too hard. You might get a little confused here and there but you'll be able to follow with context. If you do make a list though, do it in pencil.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Don't sweat it too much. I drove myself crazy when I started; kept going to the appendix to try and sort everyone out. For the most part, it doesn't matter (that much). Just roll with it.Hell, I've done several re-reads and STILL mix those damned Florents up.
Charlie Frown
Footballguy
I am still pissed about Jon Snow. 
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
I am still pissed about Jon Snow.
Don't be. He ain't dead
TeamDingo
Footballguy
A second preview chapter from TWoW has been released, for those interested.
http://www.georgerrmartin.com/if-sample.html
http://www.georgerrmartin.com/if-sample.html
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Some inane noodlings...
So are Syrio and Jaqen H'Gar the same person?
Is Jon the son of Lyanna & Rheagar? Probably not Lyanna & Robert, right? If he is Rheagar's son, could he, as a *******, marry Dany?
Will Jon end up being Melissandre's boy toy/god of light? He does already have a thing for the redheads.
Just wondering what other peoples' ideas are on this. I know there are other message boards discussing those things, but I'd like to keep this in the FBG family.
Is Jon the son of Lyanna & Rheagar? Probably not Lyanna & Robert, right? If he is Rheagar's son, could he, as a *******, marry Dany?
Will Jon end up being Melissandre's boy toy/god of light? He does already have a thing for the redheads.
Just wondering what other peoples' ideas are on this. I know there are other message boards discussing those things, but I'd like to keep this in the FBG family.
Last edited by a moderator:
kupcho1
Footballguy
NoYesNo
TeamDingo
Footballguy
No.Yes. No. Aunt/Wife, sure.Unclear what you mean. Is he Azor Ahai or will they make shadowbabies? Likely. I'd Lords Kiss that.We ARE NOT family.
The Flying Elvis
Footballguy
2015 if lucky.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
No.Yes. No. Aunt/Wife, sure.Unclear what you mean. Is he Azor Ahai or will they make shadowbabies? Likely. I'd Lords Kiss that.We ARE NOT family.
R'hllor. The others are supposed to be like the diametrically opposed force to that guy. Seems to make sense that Jon could be it considering he's ended up being the defacto guy leading the defense against the others, he's got half dragon lineage (though he burned so he's not a true dragon), he seems to have some mystical powers already similar to Bran, and I imagine he recovers from what happens at the end of book 5 through some witchery on Mellisandre's part that will probably leave him in some extra-natural state. I can't imagine he'll end up zombieish undead like Dondarrion/Catelyn, so why not end up as R'hllor? We know Stannis aint it.ETA: It also seems very late in the game to introduce what would be another major character in R'Hllor - then again that seems to be something Martin would do, either that or just not tie up that loose end at all.Other questions:Assuming Jon is the son of Lyanna/Rheagar, do you think Maester Aemon somehow knew Jon's his great nephew (or whatever)?Do you think Ned was against killing Dany on the off chance Jon could get together with her (as Ned would obviously know his lineage)?
Last edited by a moderator:
TeamDingo
Footballguy
No.Yes. No. Aunt/Wife, sure.Unclear what you mean. Is he Azor Ahai or will they make shadowbabies? Likely. I'd Lords Kiss that.We ARE NOT family.
R'hllor. The others are supposed to be like the diametrically opposed force to that guy. Seems to make sense that Jon could be it considering he's ended up being the defacto guy leading the defense against the others, he's got half dragon lineage (though he burned so he's not a true dragon), he seems to have some mystical powers already similar to Bran, and I imagine he recovers from what happens at the end of book 5 through some witchery on Mellisandre's part that will probably leave him in some extra-natural state. I can't imagine he'll end up zombieish undead like Dondarrion/Catelyn, so why not end up as R'hllor? We know Stannis aint it.Other questions:Assuming Jon is the son of Lyanna/Rheagar, do you think Maester Aemon somehow knew Jon's his great nephew (or whatever)?Do you think Ned was against killing Dany on the off chance Jon could get together with her (as Ned would obviously know his lineage)?
R'hllor is the god in opposition of The Great Other.Azor Ahai is the human hero that defeats The Others.At the end of ADwD, Jon has potentially been "born again amidst smoke and salt". There are several other canidates but I think Jon is the best bet to be Azor Ahai.No, I do not.No, Ned is opposed to murdering children and comitted to Robert's reign.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
R'hllor. The others are supposed to be like the diametrically opposed force to that guy. Seems to make sense that Jon could be it considering he's ended up being the defacto guy leading the defense against the others, he's got half dragon lineage (though he burned so he's not a true dragon), he seems to have some mystical powers already similar to Bran, and I imagine he recovers from what happens at the end of book 5 through some witchery on Mellisandre's part that will probably leave him in some extra-natural state. I can't imagine he'll end up zombieish undead like Dondarrion/Catelyn, so why not end up as R'hllor? We know Stannis aint it.Other questions:Assuming Jon is the son of Lyanna/Rheagar, do you think Maester Aemon somehow knew Jon's his great nephew (or whatever)?Do you think Ned was against killing Dany on the off chance Jon could get together with her (as Ned would obviously know his lineage)?
R'hllor is the god in opposition of The Great Other.Azor Ahai is the human hero that defeats The Others.At the end of ADwD, Jon has potentially been "born again amidst smoke and salt". There are several other canidates but I think Jon is the best bet to be Azor Ahai.No, I do not.No, Ned is opposed to murdering children and comitted to Robert's reign.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I'd think so.
Similar threads
